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| | | Author: | DeLuca  | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 09:13 | | Subject: | Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 94 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
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| Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
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| | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 14:58 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
|
So this title has 172 characters with spaces. Here's a similar part with
a sensible title:
So let's look closer at everything going on in this title you'd like
to see changed:
Torso Space Futuron,
Torso, Space, and Futuron are fine. But if we look at similar parts, we see
that no comma comes next. So we can delete the comma and following space.
Black
No problems.
Panels with
Unnecessary words.
Gold Zipper
Technically accurate, but not included for other similar parts. Unnecessary.
and Classic
The word "classic" has no real meaning whatsoever. I'd like to see it utterly
expunged from the catalog except in cases where TLG uses it.
Space
We already have this word in the title once (see above). Unnecessary duplication.
Logo on Front
Many torsos have logos on front. Many of them don't say so in the title.
Unnecessary.
and
No.
'Police'
Yes. But the single quotation marks aren't absolutely necessary. When used,
however, what is within must match the text on the item. So it should be 'POLICE'
instead of the lowercase as it is now.
on Back
Nope. Not unless we cut some of the other stuff.
, Blue and Light Bluish Gray Lines
C'mon. Nobody's going to search for this. Like, ever. It's not
necessary to distinguish this part from any similar parts - because there are
no similar parts. A prime example of title bloat.
Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands
Yes, good.
So, what can we do with this unnecessarily bloated title? How about this:
Torso Space Futuron Black Pattern with 'POLICE' on Back / Black Arms
/ White Hands
That gets us to 82 characters with spaces from the current 172 characters. So
your forum request was not approved because this needs to be done through the
change form. Don't forget that anytime a torso assembly is changed the torso
title must also be changed and vice versa. They must always match exactly.
I'll be looking for your change requests and get them approved ASAP.
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| | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:15 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
|
So this title has 172 characters with spaces. Here's a similar part with
a sensible title:
So let's look closer at everything going on in this title you'd like
to see changed:
Torso Space Futuron,
Torso, Space, and Futuron are fine. But if we look at similar parts, we see
that no comma comes next. So we can delete the comma and following space.
Black
No problems.
Panels with
Unnecessary words.
Gold Zipper
Technically accurate, but not included for other similar parts. Unnecessary.
Space
We already have this word in the title once (see above). Unnecessary duplication.
Logo on Front
Many torsos have logos on front. Many of them don't say so in the title.
Unnecessary.
and
No.
on Back
Nope. Not unless we cut some of the other stuff.
, Blue and Light Bluish Gray Lines
C'mon. Nobody's going to search for this. Like, ever. It's not
necessary to distinguish this part from any similar parts - because there are
no similar parts. A prime example of title bloat.
|
The reason that bloat-contributing details like "Blue and Light Bluish Gray Lines",
etc, were included in my proposed title, is because I usually try to keep names
as similar to their original versions as is possible, if I am making only minor
alterations.
For example, my changes to the head/torso/torso assembly entries for Minifig
(alp021): I kept the existing title, only replacing "Android" with "Robot", despite
the fact that I dislike the style and format of the torso entries.
| | and Classic
The word "classic" has no real meaning whatsoever. I'd like to see it utterly expunged from the catalog except in cases where TLG uses it.
|
In this case, "Classic" is part of the search term "Classic Space", which is
a recognised subtheme of Space.
Additionally, what do you propose that the planet-with-ship-orbiting insignia
that appears on numerous non-Space pieces (torsos, particularly) be called, then?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:29 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | and Classic
The word "classic" has no real meaning whatsoever. I'd like to see it utterly expunged from the catalog except in cases where TLG uses it.
|
Additionally, what do you propose that the planet-with-ship-orbiting insignia that appears on numerous non-Space pieces (torsos, particularly) be called, then?
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https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?pg=1&q=Classic+space&catLike=W&catType=P
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:35 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 17 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | and Classic
The word "classic" has no real meaning whatsoever. I'd like to see it utterly expunged from the catalog except in cases where TLG uses it.
|
Additionally, what do you propose that the planet-with-ship-orbiting insignia that appears on numerous non-Space pieces (torsos, particularly) be called, then?
|
https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?pg=1&q=Classic+space&catLike=W&catType=P
|
I do agree with the removal of "Classic" in cases such as "Classic Fire",
"Dragon, Classic", etc: https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?q=Classic&catType=P&catID=
I simply think that, until LEGO comes up with another name, the Benny-era Space
sets and their accompanying logo should be referred to as "Classic Space".
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:33 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | I usually try to keep names
as similar to their original versions as is possible
|
Really no need to worry about that. You do good catalog work. If you can improve
on a title, go for it.
| | In this case, "Classic" is part of the search term "Classic Space", which is
a recognised subtheme of Space.
|
Right, but it shouldn't be. Because classic is classic, but to whom? In
another 40 years, Galaxy Squad will be classic space. As, at some point, will
Star Wars.
Classic Space, Classic Town, Classic Castle, etc. were poorly-thought-out terms
by short-sighted people focusing solely upon themselves and their own experiences
with LEGO toys.
Instead, what should have been done is to frame the era by year. So:
Classic Space
becomes
Space, 1979-1988
| | Additionally, what do you propose that the planet-with-ship-orbiting insignia
that appears on numerous non-Space pieces (torsos, particularly) be called, then?
|
Not entirely sure. But I recommend calling it what it is. That's what we
try to do for most everything else.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:54 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | Classic Space, Classic Town, Classic Castle, etc. were poorly-thought-out terms
by short-sighted people focusing solely upon themselves and their own experiences
with LEGO toys.
|
In fairness to those who came before, I have to backtrack on some of that. Perhaps
I was too harsh.
At least for space, it looks like pretty much everything else was named after
the '79-'88 period. So we had Blacktron, Alien Conquest, Futuron, Unitron,
Spyrius, Galaxy Squad, RoboForce, Life on Mars, Ice Planet 2002, Exploriens,
etc.
So there actually was, at least for space, this single decade (not likely to
reoccur) where space sets had a similar theme and appearance, but weren't
officially themed within a titled theme. In fact, after a brief glance I see
just one space set that doesn't really fit in any sub-theme:
So maybe "Classic Space" is fine. Don't know about the other uses of the
word "classic" though. Still not a big fan of the word.
I see that "Classic Town" encompassed the time period of 1978-2005. That's
a pretty big range and there are a lot of different styles of sets in the total
of 452 sets. Some sets within that time period get their own categories without
being classic:
While others from the same year are classic:
Brief summary: space seems okay, but other uses of the word "classic" still have
problems.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:03 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | Classic Space, Classic Town, Classic Castle, etc. were poorly-thought-out terms
by short-sighted people focusing solely upon themselves and their own experiences
with LEGO toys.
|
In fairness to those who came before, I have to backtrack on some of that. Perhaps
I was too harsh.
At least for space, it looks like pretty much everything else was named after
the '79-'88 period. So we had Blacktron, Alien Conquest, Futuron, Unitron,
Spyrius, Galaxy Squad, RoboForce, Life on Mars, Ice Planet 2002, Exploriens,
etc.
So there actually was, at least for space, this single decade (not likely to
reoccur) where space sets had a similar theme and appearance, but weren't
officially themed within a titled theme. In fact, after a brief glance I see
just one space set that doesn't really fit in any sub-theme:
So maybe "Classic Space" is fine. Don't know about the other uses of the
word "classic" though. Still not a big fan of the word.
I see that "Classic Town" encompassed the time period of 1978-2005. That's
a pretty big range and there are a lot of different styles of sets in the total
of 452 sets. Some sets within that time period get their own categories without
being classic:
While others from the same year are classic:
Brief summary: space seems okay, but other uses of the word "classic" still have
problems.
|
I only just saw this, because I was responding to your earlier post - I agree
with all of this, 100%. 👍
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:03 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | Brief summary: space seems okay, but other uses of the word "classic" still have
problems.
|
Interestingly, classic castle apparently lasted only from 1978-1983. It only
included eight sets.
But here we have a 2013-2014 theme that was titled only "Castle" by TLG and included
around eight sets:
So it has no sub-theme at all. The year-based categorization scheme, at least
in retrospect, makes more obvious sense here than it does in space.
Castle, 1978-1983
Castle, 2013-2014
Still, perhaps the primary problems with the use of the word "classic" aren't
so much in space or castle, but in town.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:57 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | Classic Space, Classic Town, Classic Castle, etc. were poorly-thought-out terms
by short-sighted people focusing solely upon themselves and their own experiences
with LEGO toys.
Instead, what should have been done is to frame the era by year. So:
Classic Space
becomes
Space, 1979-1988
|
How about Golden Age Space, Golden Age Town, Golden Age Castle? 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:07 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, peregrinator writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | Classic Space, Classic Town, Classic Castle, etc. were poorly-thought-out terms
by short-sighted people focusing solely upon themselves and their own experiences
with LEGO toys.
Instead, what should have been done is to frame the era by year. So:
Classic Space
becomes
Space, 1979-1988
|
Golden Age Space
|
So, "Space, 1979-1999"? 🙂
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:59 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | I usually try to keep names
as similar to their original versions as is possible
|
Really no need to worry about that. You do good catalog work. If you can improve
on a title, go for it.
|
Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency, however, so I will either make a single
small change to one entry, or I will rework the names for all related
parts. Additionally, I dislike having to reformat names that I have already changed,
because I find that the style that I used on one part/Minifig does not work on
the related ones. 😕
| | | | In this case, "Classic" is part of the search term "Classic Space", which is a recognised subtheme of Space.
|
Right, but it shouldn't be. Because classic is classic, but to whom? In another 40 years, Galaxy Squad will be classic space. As, at some point, will Star Wars.
|
The difference, to me, is that those other themes actually have TLG-given names,
while "Classic Space" never did (the first properly-named Space theme was Futuron
(though Blacktron was the first to have their name explicitly stated in a catalogue,
from what I have seen, so "Futuron" may be somewhat of a retcon)).
| | Classic Space, Classic Town, Classic Castle, etc. were poorly-thought-out terms by short-sighted people focusing solely upon themselves and their own experiences with LEGO toys.
Instead, what should have been done is to frame the era by year. So:
Classic Space
becomes
Space, 1979-1988
|
While I agree, I think that the name "Classic Space" is now so firmly entrenched
(more so than "Classic Castle"/"Classic Pirates"/"Classic Town") that changing
it to "Space, 1979-1988" would make these items more difficult to find.
As an illustration of how established "Classic Space" is as the unofficial-official
name of the theme: I Googled "Classic Space" (without any references to LEGO),
and got nothing but "Space, 1979-1988" and MOCs based on the theme: https://www.google.com/search?q=classic+space&client=safari&hl=en-gb&prmd=sivn&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjboK_ynZLuAhWLslkKHS5zAdIQ_AUoAnoECA4QAg&biw=1024&bih=665&dpr=2
| | | | Additionally, what do you propose that the planet-with-ship-orbiting insignia
that appears on numerous non-Space pieces (torsos, particularly) be called, then?
|
Not entirely sure. But I recommend calling it what it is. That's what we try to do for most everything else.
|
I agree that the insignia should be described, but I think that "Classic Space"
should also be included, just as "Blacktron" is included in the descriptions
of pieces that contain said logo.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:06 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency ...
|
This place must drive ya crazy! I feel your pain, but over the years, for me
the feeling dulled into resignation that some things will just stay weird.
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:10 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency ...
|
This place must drive ya crazy! I feel your pain, but over the years, for me
the feeling dulled into resignation that some things will just stay weird.
Jen
|
There is a reason that I have over 800 approved Catalog changes! 😬
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:15 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency ...
|
This place must drive ya crazy! I feel your pain, but over the years, for me
the feeling dulled into resignation that some things will just stay weird.
Jen
|
There is a reason that I have over 800 approved Catalog changes! 😬
|
Awesome, thanks for your contributions. Keep moving up!
I used to try to keep up with randyf on Small Images, but he is just too good.
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:37 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency ...
|
This place must drive ya crazy! I feel your pain, but over the years, for me
the feeling dulled into resignation that some things will just stay weird.
Jen
|
There is a reason that I have over 800 approved Catalog changes! 😬
|
Too bad someone came behind you and bloated up all the Ninjago minifigure names.
I really liked what you had done with them, but now they are just ugh.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:43 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency ...
|
This place must drive ya crazy! I feel your pain, but over the years, for me
the feeling dulled into resignation that some things will just stay weird.
Jen
|
There is a reason that I have over 800 approved Catalog changes! 😬
|
Too bad someone came behind you and bloated up all the Ninjago minifigure names.
I really liked what you had done with them, but now they are just ugh.
|
Which ones? Have they been renamed, or are they just unmodified or new?
I took a break from renaming Ninjago Minifigs (then got distracted and have not
returned to the project 😬). There are still ones from past seasons that need
to be renamed, and new ones are named by their submitters.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:49 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency ...
|
This place must drive ya crazy! I feel your pain, but over the years, for me
the feeling dulled into resignation that some things will just stay weird.
Jen
|
There is a reason that I have over 800 approved Catalog changes! 😬
|
Too bad someone came behind you and bloated up all the Ninjago minifigure names.
I really liked what you had done with them, but now they are just ugh.
|
Which ones? Have they been renamed, or are they just unmodified or new?
I took a break from renaming Ninjago Minifigs (then got distracted and have not
returned to the project 😬). There are still ones from past seasons that need
to be renamed, and new ones are named by their submitters.
|
I guess it wasn't all of them, but there were a number of them.
Examples:
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 17:14 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, jennnifer writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Thank you. 👍
I utterly despise inconsistency ...
|
This place must drive ya crazy! I feel your pain, but over the years, for me
the feeling dulled into resignation that some things will just stay weird.
Jen
|
There is a reason that I have over 800 approved Catalog changes! 😬
|
Too bad someone came behind you and bloated up all the Ninjago minifigure names.
I really liked what you had done with them, but now they are just ugh.
|
Which ones? Have they been renamed, or are they just unmodified or new?
I took a break from renaming Ninjago Minifigs (then got distracted and have not
returned to the project 😬). There are still ones from past seasons that need
to be renamed, and new ones are named by their submitters.
|
I guess it wasn't all of them, but there were a number of them.
Examples:
|
I looked over all of the TGW Minifigs - Wow. Wow. Blood, out of my eyes!
🤯🤯🤯
Not only have the names been changed, they are changed with varying degrees of
detail and are entirely inconsistent with one another!
I realise that coming up with a definitive standard for naming is difficult,
if not impossible, but perhaps we could create a rating system for names Re:
length, detail, accuracy, etc (e.g. 1-5, A-F, Alpha/Beta/Gamma/Delta, etc), and
any changes are rated and compared with the existing name. New names with either
the same or higher rating are approved, and ones with a lower rating are rejected.
Obviously, such a system would be subjective, but any standard would be,
and it would give Catmins guidelines for names' structure and content without
being overly-restrictive.
Examples:
A/B - This name is concise and accurate.
C - This name has some good details, but is somewhat bloated/redundant (references
to Sensei Wu's beard and hat are unnecessary, since he has those elements
in nearly all iterations).
D/F - This name is both missing necessary details (the season title) and bloated
with unnecessary ones.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 17:56 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| |
D/F - This name is missing necessary details (the season title)
|
The season titles do make it convenient to not actually title these figures
(it's another type 1/type 2 method of titling). The sub-categorization of
each figure should already have the season title. It's not necessary in
the figure title.
BUT . . .
We have no real guidelines for figure titles. This is all we got and it ain't
been updated significantly in many years:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=179
We attempted to work on item title guidelines, but multiple issues derailed the
work. I do not expect much progress in the foreseeable future on these pages:
Adding Catalog Items
Item Dimensions
Item Name
Item Number
In the absence of guidelines, whatever any of us do with titles, dimensions,
or item numbers is pretty meaningless. It's truly waste of time.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 18:22 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
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D/F - This name is missing necessary details (the season title)
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The season titles do make it convenient to not actually title these figures
(it's another type 1/type 2 method of titling). The sub-categorization of
each figure should already have the season title. It's not necessary in
the figure title.
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Using season titles also frees up space for minor differences (with/without armour,
scabbard, etc).
BTW, why did you change "Sensei Wu" to "Wu Sensei"? He has only been referred
to as the former. 🤔
| | In the absence of guidelines, whatever any of us do with titles, dimensions, or item numbers is pretty meaningless. It's truly waste of time.
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This is why I suggested a more subjective rating system, as I demonstrated with
those Minifigs - Having some guidelines is better than having none at
all, and it protects the better names from being bloated or altered unnecessarily.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 19:59 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | BTW, why did you change "Sensei Wu" to "Wu Sensei"?
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Because some Wus were sorted together by name and others were scattered all over
by name. Now all the Wus are together. If you'd like the title to say "Wu,
Sensei Wu" that's no problem. It still searches just fine no matter the
word order.
But the character's name should be the first word in the title and this fella's
name is Wu. Sensei is an honorific term. That's just a rule I made up,
by the way. Because we have no guidelines.
| | He has only been referred
to as the former.
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Even as a child?
Sensei Wu Child?
| | Having some guidelines is better than having none at all
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I agree. But . . . again, I cannot force this to happen. I've been trying
for over a decade now to institute logical, consistent, easy-to-understand systems
catalog-wide. But even where I am, there are still barriers.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 20:14 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | BTW, why did you change "Sensei Wu" to "Wu Sensei"?
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Because some Wus were sorted together by name and others were scattered all over
by name. Now all the Wus are together. If you'd like the title to say "Wu,
Sensei Wu" that's no problem. It still searches just fine no matter the
word order.
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Nobody calls him Wu Sensei, so I believe that was a bad decision. And having
two Wu's in the name is title bloat according to you. 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 20:41 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | BTW, why did you change "Sensei Wu" to "Wu Sensei"?
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Because some Wus were sorted together by name and others were scattered all over by name.
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There are better ways of addressing the problem, though (e.g. "Sensei Wu - Evil"
instead of "Evil Sensei Wu").
| | But the character's name should be the first word in the title and this fella's name is Wu. Sensei is an honorific term.
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True, but this is like naming a Minifig "Vader Darth" - "Darth" is technically
a title (technically technically so is "Vader", but you get my point),
but I doubt that you would rename the Darth Vader Minifigs "Vader Darth".
| | | | He has only been referred
to as the former.
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Even as a child?
Sensei Wu Child?
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Yes, actually. In the show, the Ninja refer to child/teen Wu as "Sensei Wu"/"Master
Wu".
| | | | Having some guidelines is better than having none at all
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I agree. But . . . again, I cannot force this to happen. I've been trying for over a decade now to institute logical, consistent, easy-to-understand systems catalog-wide. But even where I am, there are still barriers.
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I understand that it is difficult to implement concrete Catalog-wide standards,
but there is some decision-making process that determines if a Catalog
change-request is accepted or rejected. Having a simple, subjective, unofficial
1-5/A-F grading scale for submissions would prevent concise and descriptive titles
from being changed into bloated, inaccurate ones. Submissions would still be
evaluated subjectively on a case-by-case basis, but it would help to have a general
framework (I.E. Does this name adequately describe the item in-question? Is more
detail needed, or less? Can the title be more concise without sacrificing
necessary information? Et al.).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 21:07 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | I understand that it is difficult to implement concrete Catalog-wide standards
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I'm working on this right now.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 05:04 | | Subject: | Re: Figure Titling Guidelines (DeLuca) | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | I understand that it is difficult to implement concrete Catalog-wide standards,
but there is some decision-making process that determines if a Catalog
change-request is accepted or rejected.
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The decision-making process is irrelevant without written guidelines.
I've spent hours today on creating guidelines and didn't get super-far
(in addition to all the time I've spent in the past). Figure titling is
an incredibly complicated issue.
You have 33 pending change requests, most of which are to change figure titles.
How about this: before we go shuffling the words in figure titles around yet
again, why don't you suggest some guidelines?
As regards the pending requests, here are some questions to consider as you draft
your guidelines (there's no need to answer them here in the forum - just
in your proposed guidelines):
Change Item Name from
{Ogel Minion, Super Ice Drone, Alpha Team Arctic}
to
{Super Ice Drone - Mission Deep Freeze, Trans-Medium Blue Helmet, Red Scarab
Symbol with Silver Outline, Black Evil Skull}
Why are hyphenated divisions better than comma-separated divisions?
Is this just your personal preference?
What about parenthetical divisions - what role should they play in figure titles?
What about other forms of punctuation in titles?
Why was "Ogel Minion" removed from the title?
Should it be there - if so, where?
Where does the term "Super Ice Drone" come from?
Is Ogel Minion any kind of official term or just something someone made up?
Why was the word "arctic" included in the original title?
Why is the theme Alpha Team included in the original title?
Don't categories handle this?
Why was it removed in your request?
How does it affect sorting by name when there is no sub-theme?
Why was the sub-theme included in your request?
Are all the identifiers (helmet and color, torso pattern, head description) included
in your revision necessary?
If so, why aren't they included for all figures?
Should they be?
Change Item Name from
{Ogel Minion, Alpha Team Arctic}
to
{Ice Drone - Mission Deep Freeze, Trans-Medium Blue Helmet, Red Scarab Symbol,
Evil Skull}
What is the difference between an ice drone and a super ice drone?
Who determined it and how reliable is the information?
People enjoy browsing figures by title and I believe it's the default setting
- how would these figures be sorted if this category had, say, 500 figures?
Wouldn't ice drones appear very far apart (in the I and S sections)?
Change Item Name from
{Ogel, Black Hands}
to
{Ogel - Black Hands}
Why is a named figure treated differently than an unnamed figure?
Should it be?
Why or why not?
Change Item Name from
{Alpha Team Android}
to
{Tee Vee - Mission Deep Freeze, Android}
What is more important as the first word in the title, when it comes to sorting:
the character name (Tee Vee) or what the character is (an android)?
Change Item Name from
{Zed}
to
{Zed - Mission Deep Freeze, Sports Helmet with Black and Blue Bangs and Goatee}
There's only one Zed in the entire catalog. Why, then, is it necessary to
describe further?
And, if it is necessary, then why did your Ninjago work not follow this philosophy?
Also, does the sports helmet have black and blue bangs and a goatee?
Are "with" and "and" necessary in figure titles, or would comma separation work
to the same effect?
Why were only two attributes (the helmet and the head) described in the title?
Since titles have limited room, what attributes are chosen to be described therein
and what is the criteria for selecting them?
Change Item Name from
{Ogel, Trans-Red Hook}
to
{Ogel - Mission Deep Sea, Black Hand and Trans-Red Hook}
Why was it necessary to describe the other hand in the title?
What role do images play in titles?
Must everything in the image be described, or does the image itself perform some
role of description?
If the image takes on some role in describing an object, don't categories
do the same?
If so, should they ever be included in titles?
Change Item Name from
{Ogel Minion Commander}
to
{Skeleton Drone - Police Cap and Red Epaulettes, Standard Skull}
Not a single word from the original title was kept - who is responsible for answering
complaints when people can't find something?
Is it worth keeping old title language within a new title for a period of time?
If so, where will it go and how will it be distinguished from the revised title?
How long will it be kept?
How will we find it to change it?
What is a standard skull?
Titling this with the first word as "skeleton" will group this figure with other
skeletons - is this desirable?
This figure is neither a skeleton, nor a drone - if "Skeleton Drone" is what
the figure is officially referred to, then how can it be titled properly for
sorting?
I look forward to seeing your ideas for figure title guidelines. 'Cause,
as I mentioned, I sorta ran into some dead ends.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 11:41 | | Subject: | Re: Figure Titling Guidelines (DeLuca) | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | I understand that it is difficult to implement concrete Catalog-wide standards,
but there is some decision-making process that determines if a Catalog
change-request is accepted or rejected.
|
The decision-making process is irrelevant without written guidelines.
I've spent hours today on creating guidelines and didn't get super-far
(in addition to all the time I've spent in the past). Figure titling is
an incredibly complicated issue.
You have 33 pending change requests, most of which are to change figure titles.
How about this: before we go shuffling the words in figure titles around yet
again, why don't you suggest some guidelines?
As regards the pending requests, here are some questions to consider as you draft
your guidelines (there's no need to answer them here in the forum - just
in your proposed guidelines):
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You are absolutely correct that this is an extremely complicated process, which
is why I think that the guidelines should be fluid/adaptable enough to accommodate
theme-specific quirks (e.g. Licensed Minifigs tend towards using characters'
names over just descriptions, while City ones (until recently) could only
be differentiated by their appearance).
I actually have a general system that I use for retitling Minifigs. Every title
that I have submitted does not necessarily follow these guidelines exactly,
though, because 1.) I have developed it while working on renaming, and 2.) sometimes
there are exceptions (for example, I think that character-names of old Minifigs
(~pre-2000) should be secondary to their characteristics, since these names were
not widely-known - except in cases when they were (e.g. Johnny
Thunder)).
| | Change Item Name from
{Ogel Minion, Super Ice Drone, Alpha Team Arctic}
to
{Super Ice Drone - Mission Deep Freeze, Trans-Medium Blue Helmet, Red Scarab Symbol with Silver Outline, Black Evil Skull}
Why are hyphenated divisions better than comma-separated divisions?
Is this just your personal preference?
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I use hyphens to differentiate between name and/or occupation, and characteristics.
While it is personal preference, I prefer it to only using commas, because
comma-only titles look (to me) like a "pile" of characteristics with equal significance.
(e.g. "Flex - Ropes and Aviator Cap" vs. "Flex, Ropes, Aviator Cap")
| | What about parenthetical divisions - what role should they play in figure titles?
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I tend to avoid parentheticals in names, but when I do use them, it is
usually as an addendum to provide additional information that is useful but not
100% essential. (e.g. "Torso, Planet with Spaceship Circling (Classic Space Logo)")
| | What about other forms of punctuation in titles?
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I mostly just use hyphens (to separate names from details) and commas (to separate
details), but I also occasionally use slashes to denote alternate names or characteristics.
(e.g. "Head, Smirk / Scared", "Ice Planet (Commander Cold / Commander Bear)")
| | Why was "Ogel Minion" removed from the title?
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"Ogel Minion" is unnecessary, because the Ice Drones are Ogel's minions.
| | Should it be there - if so, where?
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No - It is redundant.
| | Where does the term "Super Ice Drone" come from?
|
I admit to having done this one from memory, since I do remember seeing "Super
Ice Drone" in an official description at one point. I cannot find a source for
it right now, but I will keep looking.
| | Is Ogel Minion any kind of official term or just something someone made up?
|
It is the Minifig's occupation, but the name is made-up. These characters
are referred to as "Skeleton Drones" (occasionally as "Skeleton Zombies", in
the first wave) or "Ice Drones", depending upon the wave.
| | Why was the word "arctic" included in the original title?
Why is the theme Alpha Team included in the original title?
Don't categories handle this?
Why was it removed in your request?
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"Alpha Team Arctic" was a fan name for Mission Deep Freeze (I believe), despite
the fact that the theme did not take place exclusively in the Arctic (Ogel's
base is in Antarctica, and his plan is to freeze the entire world, as well as
time).
| | How does it affect sorting by name when there is no sub-theme?
Why was the sub-theme included in your request?
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The subtheme is included for detail and differentiation, just as Ninjago seasons
are included in Ninjago characters' names.
| | Are all the identifiers (helmet and color, torso pattern, head description) included
in your revision necessary?
|
Yes - They differentiate this Ice Drone from the other ones (with white skulls
and no silver outline on the torso), as well as from the Mission Deep Sea Skeleton
Drones (who have the same helmet, albeit in a different colour).
| | If so, why aren't they included for all figures?
Should they be?
|
I generally do include some head/headgear/torso descriptions in names,
depending upon how much is needed for detail and differentiation from other,
similar, Minifigs.
| |
Change Item Name from
{Ogel Minion, Alpha Team Arctic}
to
{Ice Drone - Mission Deep Freeze, Trans-Medium Blue Helmet, Red Scarab Symbol,
Evil Skull}
What is the difference between an ice drone and a super ice drone?
Who determined it and how reliable is the information?
|
See above, Re: my doing this one from memory, but I normally find a magazine
or catalogue (or game, or LEGO.com description, etc) source for Minifigs'
names. I consider any official LEGO description to be a reliable source
of information (frustrating as it sometime is, in cases such as Adventurers Minifigs
having at least three different names each, depending upon the catalogue's/magazine's
region of origin! 😬). I also consider non-LEGO sources reliable, in the case
of Licensed themes, and if LEGO and the official source are in conflict, I default
to the outside source for the Minifig's primary name. (e.g. LEGO refers to
ISB Colonel Yularen as "Admiral Yularen", despite his correct Imperial rank being
that of colonel (he was an admiral during the Clone Wars, but a colonel under
the Empire))
| | People enjoy browsing figures by title and I believe it's the default setting - how would these figures be sorted if this category had, say, 500 figures?
Wouldn't ice drones appear very far apart (in the I and S sections)?
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Unfortunately, yes, but I cannot think of a way to name Minifigs properly that
also groups similar ones together, in cases wherein such Minifigs have similar
features but different names. (e.g. "Stormtrooper" and "Shadow Stormtrooper")
| |
Change Item Name from
{Ogel, Black Hands}
to
{Ogel - Black Hands}
Why is a named figure treated differently than an unnamed figure?
Should it be?
Why or why not?
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Under my system, they are not treated differently - Occupation takes the place
of character-name (with some exceptions, such as "Police Officer Duke DeTain",
instead of just the character's name). (e.g. "Dash Justice - Brown
Hair", "Firefighter - White Helmet")
| |
Change Item Name from
{Alpha Team Android}
to
{Tee Vee - Mission Deep Freeze, Android}
What is more important as the first word in the title, when it comes to sorting:
the character name (Tee Vee) or what the character is (an android)?
|
Name, since characters often have different variants. In this case, Tee Vee has
been a TV with legs (wave 1), an ROV (Mission Deep Sea), and an android (Mission
Deep Freeze).
| |
Change Item Name from
{Zed}
to
{Zed - Mission Deep Freeze, Sports Helmet with Black and Blue Bangs and Goatee}
There's only one Zed in the entire catalog. Why, then, is it necessary to describe further?
|
Fair point, but I wanted to describe the Minifig somewhat, and to maintain
the "Name - Details" pattern consistently throughout all Alpha Team Minifigs.
| | And, if it is necessary, then why did your Ninjago work not follow this philosophy?
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Sometimes it does. I add the official names of outfits (the Possession season
suits are called "Deepstone Armour", for example), and I note the presence of
armour/hair/scabbards/bandanas/etc when necessary.
| | Also, does the sports helmet have black and blue bangs and a goatee?
|
It is worded a bit oddly, but I had established the order of "Headgear,
Facial Features" with the other Minifigs, and I wanted this one to be consistent.
| | Are "with" and "and" necessary in figure titles, or would comma separation work to the same effect?
|
Yes, but in moderation. Using only commas creates a cluttered "pile" of details
(as mentioned above), and using only "and" makes the name sound like an excited
child trying to describe their favourite Minifig ("FLEX HAS ROPES AND A BIG SMILE
AND A BELT AND AN ORANGE ARM AND A HELMET AND AND AND!!!!!!!!"). Additionally,
the use of "and" vs. "with" can denote colour or location. (e.g. "Gold
Zipper and Classic Space Logo" suggests that both the zipper and logo are gold,
without needing to repeat the word. "White Panel with Classic Space Logo", when
included in a longer description, specifies that the logo is on the panel.)
| | Why were only two attributes (the helmet and the head) described in the title?
|
Headgear and face-print are the most commonly-changed aspects of Alpha Team Minifigs
(with the exception of their uniforms, which are described by the inclusion of
the wave in the name).
| | Since titles have limited room, what attributes are chosen to be described therein and what is the criteria for selecting them?
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This is one reason that the guidelines should be adaptable - This is something
that should be decided (largely, though not entirely) on a theme-by-theme basis
(see above Re: available traits in each theme, intra-theme differentiation, etc).
| |
Change Item Name from
{Ogel, Trans-Red Hook}
to
{Ogel - Mission Deep Sea, Black Hand and Trans-Red Hook}
Why was it necessary to describe the other hand in the title?
|
To indicate that only one hand was replaced with a hook (and for consistency
Re: references to hands), though if the wave 1 version were simply "Ogel", the
subsequent entries could be "Ogel - Mission Deep Sea, Trans-Red Hook" and "Ogel
- Mission Deep Freeze, Trans-Medium Blue Hook".
| | What role do images play in titles?
Must everything in the image be described, or does the image itself perform some role of description?
|
Images are typically shown as thumbnails, so the only way to get information
from them is to click the image; I want titles to describe Minifigs enough that
clicking the image is not necessary for basic identification, differentiation,
and description.
| | If the image takes on some role in describing an object, don't categories do the same?
If so, should they ever be included in titles?
|
Categories (wave/season titles) should be included: If I am looking at only
Mission Deep Freeze Minifigs, the wave's inclusion in the names is unnecessary,
but if I search for "Radia", the waves now provide differentiation between the
three variants. To put it another way, the usefulness is dependent upon how
and what is being searched.
| |
Change Item Name from
{Ogel Minion Commander}
to
{Skeleton Drone - Police Cap and Red Epaulettes, Standard Skull}
Not a single word from the original title was kept
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The original title was inaccurate - These characters are called "Skeleton Drones"
(though they are Ogel's minions), and this Minifig is not a commander.
| | who is responsible for answering complaints when people can't find something?
|
Unfortunately, retitling Catalog entries in any significant way is going
to be disruptive, so we need to decide between dealing with either a (relatively)
brief period of confusion and complaints, or continuing to deal with the headache-inducing,
absolute LANGUAGE-ing mess that we currently have. Which is worse?
(I think that the latter is!)
| | Is it worth keeping old title language within a new title for a period of time?
If so, where will it go and how will it be distinguished from the revised title?
How long will it be kept?
How will we find it to change it?
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It is absolutely NOT worth the trouble to partially rename every
Minifig to an unsatisfactory hybrid of their original name and an improved name,
and then to change it to the final name later! Not only is this more work, it
will make the Catalog more confusing than a direct switch from old to
new names - And we will get complaints and confusion twice, since
there will undoubtably be a response to any sweeping changes to the Catalog!
| | What is a standard skull?
|
This Minifig uses a head that is called "Skull Standard"; Mission Deep Sea Skeleton
Drones and Mission Deep Freeze Ice Drones use one that is called "Skull Evil".
| | Titling this with the first word as "skeleton" will group this figure with other skeletons - is this desirable?
This figure is neither a skeleton, nor a drone - if "Skeleton Drone" is what the figure is officially referred to, then how can it be titled properly for sorting?
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It will, but I see no way to block this Minifig from appearing in searches for
"Skeleton", while retaining its proper (official) name. Also, someone may actually
search "Skeleton" to find this Minifig, since some catalogues referred
to the wave 1 version as "Skeleton Zombies", and the searcher in-question may
not know which version we use. (BTW, The "Skeleton Zombie" variant of the name
is very uncommon and unique to wave 1, so we should just use "Skeleton Drone".)
| |
I look forward to seeing your ideas for figure title guidelines. 'Cause, as I mentioned, I sorta ran into some dead ends.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 14:04 | | Subject: | Re: Figure Titling Guidelines (DeLuca) | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
Sources for "Skeleton Drone" and "Ice Drone" (still nothing for "Super Ice Drone",
but I will keep looking):
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 14:17 | | Subject: | Re: Figure Titling Guidelines (DeLuca) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
Sources for "Skeleton Drone" and "Ice Drone" (still nothing for "Super Ice Drone", but I will keep looking):
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Super Ice Drone! (Though Flex is misidentified as Zed in the description 😐):
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 05:37 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| Wu, Sensei outfit
with the comma makes sense. It is Wu in his sensei outfit. Like Luke in his many
outfits ...
although standardisation of whether or not to use outfit and the format would
be good...
I'd prefer "Name, Outfit worn (any necessary qualifiers)"
So those above would be
Luke Skywalker, Cloud City outfit (dark tan shirt)
Luke Skywalker, Stormtrooper outfit
Lando Calrissian, Cloud City outfit (coiled texture hair)
I'm also against unnecessary capitalisation, but willing to let it go as
it doesn't interfere with searches or placement in searches.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 05:54 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, yorbrick writes:
| | Wu, Sensei outfit
with the comma makes sense. It is Wu in his sensei outfit. Like Luke in his many
outfits ...
although standardisation of whether or not to use outfit and the format would
be good...
I'd prefer "Name, Outfit worn (any necessary qualifiers)"
So those above would be
Luke Skywalker, Cloud City outfit (dark tan shirt)
Luke Skywalker, Stormtrooper outfit
Lando Calrissian, Cloud City outfit (coiled texture hair)
I'm also against unnecessary capitalisation, but willing to let it go as
it doesn't interfere with searches or placement in searches.
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+1
But we do really need the word outfit everywhere?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 06:01 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, Stellar writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, yorbrick writes:
| | Wu, Sensei outfit
with the comma makes sense. It is Wu in his sensei outfit. Like Luke in his many
outfits ...
although standardisation of whether or not to use outfit and the format would
be good...
I'd prefer "Name, Outfit worn (any necessary qualifiers)"
So those above would be
Luke Skywalker, Cloud City outfit (dark tan shirt)
Luke Skywalker, Stormtrooper outfit
Lando Calrissian, Cloud City outfit (coiled texture hair)
I'm also against unnecessary capitalisation, but willing to let it go as
it doesn't interfere with searches or placement in searches.
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+1
But we do really need the word outfit everywhere?
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I'm easy either way, so long as it is consistent. So yes if we want it to
be clear that it is an outfit, no if we are OK with there being some possible
confusion between outfits and set names and maybe locations.
For example, does
Luke Skywalker, Cloud City
mean it is Luke Skywalker in his Cloud City outfit or Luke Skywalker from a set
called Cloud City. In this case, it doesn't really matter but in other case
it might.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | infinibrix | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 08:17 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | BTW, why did you change "Sensei Wu" to "Wu Sensei"?
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Because some Wus were sorted together by name and others were scattered all over
by name. Now all the Wus are together. If you'd like the title to say "Wu,
Sensei Wu" that's no problem. It still searches just fine no matter the
word order.
But the character's name should be the first word in the title and this fella's
name is Wu. Sensei is an honorific term. That's just a rule I made up,
by the way. Because we have no guidelines.
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The only danger with using certain definitive rulings like this is that it can
make it very determental to the way the character titles are displayed and read
plus you also have to consider how far it could end up going?
Vader Darth
Maul Darth
Sideous Darth
I beleive Darth is also a form of title?
Then you have:-
Flitwick Professor
Mcgonagall Professor
Lupin Professor
Cody Commander
Ackbar Admiral
Leia Princess
I could go on.....
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:14 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | I utterly despise inconsistency,
"Classic Pirates"
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I forgot about pirates! An interesting example of catalog inconsistency.
What was done for pirates was to name them:
Pirates I
Pirates II
Pirates III
That equates to exactly what I was suggesting.
Pirates I encompasses 1989-2002. Pirates II is for 2009-2010. Pirates III is
for 2015. So past administrators already did what I'm suggesting, but they
failed to title these categories properly (a type 1/type 2 error, where a thing
is seemingly named, but not meaningfully named).
Of course, proper titling can only be done in retrospect because the length of
time a theme will last is unknown. But in retrospect we can see that these categories
should be titled:
Pirates, 1989-2002
Pirates, 2009-2010
Pirates, 2015
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:16 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
Forgot to mention this: there's no such thing as classic pirates. Why?
Just because.
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| | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 15:23 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
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That gets us to 82 characters with spaces from the current 172 characters. So your forum request was not approved because this needs to be done through the change form.
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How about this? 115 characters: "Torso Space Futuron Black, Gold Zipper and
Classic Space Logo, 'POLICE' on Back Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands"
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:27 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
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That gets us to 82 characters with spaces from the current 172 characters. So your forum request was not approved because this needs to be done through the change form.
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How about this? 115 characters: "Torso Space Futuron Black, Gold Zipper and
Classic Space Logo, 'POLICE' on Back Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands"
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The problem that I have with this is that it is NOT a Futuron torso. If I am
searching for Futuron stuff, why would I ever want this item from the year 2021
in my search results? SMH
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | DeLuca | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:39 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
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That gets us to 82 characters with spaces from the current 172 characters. So your forum request was not approved because this needs to be done through the change form.
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How about this? 115 characters: "Torso Space Futuron Black, Gold Zipper and
Classic Space Logo, 'POLICE' on Back Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands"
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The problem that I have with this is that it is NOT a Futuron torso. If I am searching for Futuron stuff, why would I ever want this item from the year 2021 in my search results? SMH
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SP1 has always been in an odd position Re: classification, since the original
torsos were reused Futuron ones (the only difference being that SP1 torsos had
white hands, instead of black ones). This piece, as a direct update of the original,
falls into the same quandary (made even more difficult by the presence of the
SP1 logo on the back).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Jan 10, 2021 16:41 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
|
That gets us to 82 characters with spaces from the current 172 characters. So your forum request was not approved because this needs to be done through the change form.
|
How about this? 115 characters: "Torso Space Futuron Black, Gold Zipper and
Classic Space Logo, 'POLICE' on Back Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands"
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The problem that I have with this is that it is NOT a Futuron torso. If I am searching for Futuron stuff, why would I ever want this item from the year 2021 in my search results? SMH
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SP1 has always been in an odd position Re: classification, since the original
torsos were reused Futuron ones (the only difference being that SP1 torsos had
white hands, instead of black ones). This piece, as a direct update of the original,
falls into the same quandary (made even more difficult by the presence of the
SP1 logo on the back).
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Yeah, I understand the quandary. I just don't like it.
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| | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 11:53 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| It is usually my habit to not describe the back unless there is plenty of room
and I didn't feel like I had plenty of room on this one. A lot of the stuff
that was deleted was put there specifically to differentiate it from the 1990
torso, all of which is now deleted. But I guess in this case the back print
was a more concise way to differentiate them. *shrugs.
In Catalog Requests, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
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So this title has 172 characters with spaces. Here's a similar part with
a sensible title:
So let's look closer at everything going on in this title you'd like
to see changed:
Torso Space Futuron,
Torso, Space, and Futuron are fine. But if we look at similar parts, we see
that no comma comes next. So we can delete the comma and following space.
Black
No problems.
Panels with
Unnecessary words.
Gold Zipper
Technically accurate, but not included for other similar parts. Unnecessary.
and Classic
The word "classic" has no real meaning whatsoever. I'd like to see it utterly
expunged from the catalog except in cases where TLG uses it.
Space
We already have this word in the title once (see above). Unnecessary duplication.
Logo on Front
Many torsos have logos on front. Many of them don't say so in the title.
Unnecessary.
and
No.
'Police'
Yes. But the single quotation marks aren't absolutely necessary. When used,
however, what is within must match the text on the item. So it should be 'POLICE'
instead of the lowercase as it is now.
on Back
Nope. Not unless we cut some of the other stuff.
, Blue and Light Bluish Gray Lines
C'mon. Nobody's going to search for this. Like, ever. It's not
necessary to distinguish this part from any similar parts - because there are
no similar parts. A prime example of title bloat.
Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands
Yes, good.
So, what can we do with this unnecessarily bloated title? How about this:
Torso Space Futuron Black Pattern with 'POLICE' on Back / Black Arms
/ White Hands
That gets us to 82 characters with spaces from the current 172 characters. So
your forum request was not approved because this needs to be done through the
change form. Don't forget that anytime a torso assembly is changed the torso
title must also be changed and vice versa. They must always match exactly.
I'll be looking for your change requests and get them approved ASAP.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 05:26 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
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Why do we need the locations (as in front / back) of the prints in the description.
"Black Panels with Gold Zipper, Classic Space and Police logos" covers the important
search terms. Are people really searching for back as a keyword for something
like this? If so, all other torso assemblies where back printing is mentioned
should be updated.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 05:34 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, yorbrick writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
|
Why do we need the locations (as in front / back) of the prints in the description.
"Black Panels with Gold Zipper, Classic Space and Police logos" covers the important
search terms. Are people really searching for back as a keyword for something
like this? If so, all other torso assemblies where back printing is mentioned
should be updated.
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But there are torsos where back print is the only distinguishing feature like
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 11, 2021 05:47 | | Subject: | Re: Please Change Name of Part (973pb4140c01) | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog Requests, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, yorbrick writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, DeLuca writes:
| | Please change Part (973pb4140c01) to "Torso Space Futuron, Black Panels with
Gold Zipper and Classic Space Logo on Front and 'Police' on Back, Blue
and Light Bluish Gray Lines Pattern / Black Arms / White Hands".
Not to contribute to title-bloat, but since the word "Police" features prominently
on this part, it needs to be included in the description, since that is
how most people would search for it. 😕
|
Why do we need the locations (as in front / back) of the prints in the description.
"Black Panels with Gold Zipper, Classic Space and Police logos" covers the important
search terms. Are people really searching for back as a keyword for something
like this? If so, all other torso assemblies where back printing is mentioned
should be updated.
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But there are torsos where back print is the only distinguishing feature like
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Which is fine if it helps to distinguish two similar ones that might otherwise
be confused. There is nothing on that back printed one that is an obvious search
term to differentiate them. However, I don't think anyone will be searching
for without back print if they have the second one. They will search for features
it has, rather than what it does not have.
The point was more do we need to be told in the description that the word police
is on the back, rather than just present in the name. If they do exactly the
same torso without back print, will it be necessary to say there is no print
on the back? Would it then be necessary to say there is no print on the back
of the original futuron torsos as they also have no back prints? Surely the word
police in the name is enough to distinguish between this torso and exactly the
same print on the front of a torso only. If someone had a front-only torso, they
would not search for police but would still find both the one and two sided prints.
Surely it is then obvious which they have as one says police and one does not,
without being told the location of the word police.
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USA, Virginia
)
)
United Kingdom, England
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Poland, w. Wielkopolskie
