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| | | Author: | KristianME  | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:04 | | Subject: | Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 300 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| Hello
I am quite new here, so i am unsure how i go through with this. Just asking here
for some input. (Only done two orders before this issue).
I bought Home alone from what i thought was a reliable store here on 12th of
january. However two days later i asked seller if we could cancel it, which he
accepted and did. However my money already went through. I.e. product was never
sent and its in hos stock again.
I am trying to get my money back (270 Euro's), its now been 12 days since
cancellation and he aint responding to my emails or messages here. He answered
me once last week, but not heard from him since. I dont want to name the store
just yet, as i am unsure about what is acceptable "length" for refund. Today
is 12th day after cancellation.
What should i do?
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| | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:06 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | If you paid with PayPal you can file a Paypal claim. |
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| | | | | Author: | KristianME | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:07 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | I payed with Iban. |
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| | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:09 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| I'm not that knowledgeable with that so hopefully another person will be
able to chime in.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | KristianME | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:13 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| Thanks anyway, i hope someone has some tips  |
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| | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:17 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, KristianME writes:
| | Hello
I am quite new here, so i am unsure how i go through with this. Just asking here
for some input. (Only done two orders before this issue).
I bought Home alone from what i thought was a reliable store here on 12th of
january. However two days later i asked seller if we could cancel it, which he
accepted and did. However my money already went through. I.e. product was never
sent and its in hos stock again.
I am trying to get my money back (270 Euro's), its now been 12 days since
cancellation and he aint responding to my emails or messages here. He answered
me once last week, but not heard from him since. I dont want to name the store
just yet, as i am unsure about what is acceptable "length" for refund. Today
is 12th day after cancellation.
What should i do?
|
Set the seller a deadline for repayment of one week. But do not write a week,
but a specific date. If he has not paid by then, file a complaint with the police.
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| | | | | | | Author: | KristianME | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:18 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | In that case i contact the german police from norway? |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 18:18 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, KristianME writes:
| | In that case i contact the german police from norway?
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No, the police in Norway.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 18:35 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, Dino1 writes:
| | In General, KristianME writes:
| | In that case i contact the german police from norway?
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No, the police in Norway.
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Or the Bears and the Whales.
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| | | | | Author: | KristianME | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 17:25 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| The store has feedback rating of 10k, and member since 2004. I find this very
odd. I dont know if i am being unreasonable or not, but it really should not
take this long.
And i am quite hesitant to take those serious steps.
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| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 18:10 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| Hello -
Hoping it's not too cold yet in your place!
Brrrrr!
Sorry to say, but ordering, paying by IBAN and cancelling 2 days after isn't
maybe the smartest move you've done 
First because an order on line isn't something light - we all make mistakes
and go too quick (especially me) but anyway, and even if Consumers Laws should
protect you, please take time to think when ordering.
Second, it seems you both cancelled the order. In short you sent money and cancel
a deal. Now you can't send an NRS or NSS or make BrickLink do something.
You can, but as it's a cancelled order it's going to be very difficult.
Third because maybe, and here probably, an IBAN to Norway isn't simple from
EU.
It would be me, I'm not even sure I could do it, I'd have to call my
banker, and maybe there's a 15€ bank fee assorted + a looong delay. Again
I don't know - but you'd be in Belgium this should be FAR easier.
I'd recommend you to buy using PayPal/Stripe if you're unsure; as you
can see, right now there's almost nothing you can do.
Apart asking Polizei to do something, but it's FAR too soon to say it's
a nasty seller, and the Police have probably more important to manage right now
(see the news)...
In short - please give us the seller name, or PM it to me, I'll try to info.
But yes, 12 days is long, too long to get a refund 
You may try to contact Russell.
Wishing you the best and hoping this will end up well for you both.
Sylvain
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| | | | | | | Author: | KristianME | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 18:29 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| Thank you so much for informative post.
I messaged you store name, as i dont want to name someone who has been here since
2004 and probably makes a living out of this. As it might be some reason for
not responding.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 18:32 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Third because maybe, and here probably, an IBAN to Norway isn't simple from
EU.
|
Norway is in SEPA, so a bank transfer from EU to Norway in Euros should
be as easy to do as anywhere else in SEPA.
But if your bank account isn’t in Euros or doesn’t accept Euros, that may indeed
be more complicated.
| | […]
Apart asking Polizei to do something, but it's FAR too soon to say it's
a nasty seller, and the Police have probably more important to manage right now
(see the news)...
|
There’s also http://ec.europa.eu/odr , it’s open to Norway (and available in
“norsk,” which I hope I’m not mistaking taking as meaning Norvegian in Norvegian).
| | […]
Wishing you the best and hoping this will end up well for you both.
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Ditto.
Too.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jan 31, 2022 18:40 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 99 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | Norway is in SEPA, so a bank transfer from EU to Norway in Euros should
be as easy to do as anywhere else in SEPA.
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Didn't know this - see how trivial it is!
| | There’s also http://ec.europa.eu/odr , it’s open to Norway (and available in
“norsk,” which I hope I’m not mistaking taking as meaning Norvegian in Norvegian).
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And you probabaly are not Finnish(ed).
#SylvainToo
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| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 03:47 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | Second, it seems you both cancelled the order. In short you sent money and cancel
a deal. Now you can't send an NRS or NSS or make BrickLink do something.
You can, but as it's a cancelled order it's going to be very difficult.
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Actually it's super weird Bricklink has no procedure for this like an NSS.
Even if a seller could fail to send a refund 3x before being banned it would
be very generous, now they can do it endlessly and it's somehow fine? Definitely
one of those weird things about Bricklink logic.
However, you could still argue that this is an NSS, if you consider an order
not cancelled until the refund is done. A paid order is not a cancelled order.
I mean yes, the order status "cancelled" may be barring the buyer from starting
an NSS, but sellers shouldn't be able to use this order status illegitimately
to dodge NSS procedures and Bricklink admins should agree. Just another way to
look at it.
If really everything else fails, you could always consider buying the item again,
payment is already made, then start an NSS.
But either way, yes, if the seller doesn't refund, report it to the police.
But tell the seller that this is what you are going to do before you will do
it - maybe it'll be some new inspiration not to be a thief.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 04:25 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, Teup writes:
| | In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | Second, it seems you both cancelled the order. In short you sent money and cancel
a deal. Now you can't send an NRS or NSS or make BrickLink do something.
You can, but as it's a cancelled order it's going to be very difficult.
|
Actually it's super weird Bricklink has no procedure for this like an NSS.
Even if a seller could fail to send a refund 3x before being banned it would
be very generous, now they can do it endlessly and it's somehow fine? Definitely
one of those weird things about Bricklink logic.
However, you could still argue that this is an NSS, if you consider an order
not cancelled until the refund is done. A paid order is not a cancelled order.
I mean yes, the order status "cancelled" may be barring the buyer from starting
an NSS, but sellers shouldn't be able to use this order status illegitimately
to dodge NSS procedures and Bricklink admins should agree. Just another way to
look at it.
|
The buyer has already agreed to the cancellation. This surely means that they
agree the order is cancelled and therefore over. If they don't agree that
it is finished and over, then they shouldn't agree to cancellation.
BL have to look at both sides. If both sides have already agreed to cancel it,
then the order is cancelled. Other stuff may have gone on, but both parties have
already agreed to cancel it. What else is BL meant to do if both buyer and seller
have agreed to a cancellation?
This just shows the danger of paying a complete stranger by bank transfer, especially
in a distant country where the buyer will find it very difficult to invoke their
consumer rights. Sure, they can contact their local police but I cannot see them
doing anything. They can also contact the seller's local police but again
are they really going to do anything in a word-against-word internet transaction,
especially if this is the first and only complaint against the seller lodged
with them.
Their are plausible reasons for the delay. The seller might be waiting to be
sure that the original transfer is not being removed from his account due to
fraudulent use of a card, for example. There are a lot of scams these days where
refunds are requestedand this one follows some of the tell-tale signs. New buyer
buys an expensive item. New buyer pays. New buyer wants to cancel it. New buyer
wants the seller to make a separate bank transfer to them to refund. Maybe the
seller is checking with their bank to be sure that the payment cannot be reversed
and that it genuinely came from the buyer's account. I'm not saying that
has happened here, but some of the signs are similar and the seller might just
be wanting to check that they are not being played as part of a scam.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 04:55 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | In General, Teup writes:
| | In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | Second, it seems you both cancelled the order. In short you sent money and cancel
a deal. Now you can't send an NRS or NSS or make BrickLink do something.
You can, but as it's a cancelled order it's going to be very difficult.
|
Actually it's super weird Bricklink has no procedure for this like an NSS.
Even if a seller could fail to send a refund 3x before being banned it would
be very generous, now they can do it endlessly and it's somehow fine? Definitely
one of those weird things about Bricklink logic.
However, you could still argue that this is an NSS, if you consider an order
not cancelled until the refund is done. A paid order is not a cancelled order.
I mean yes, the order status "cancelled" may be barring the buyer from starting
an NSS, but sellers shouldn't be able to use this order status illegitimately
to dodge NSS procedures and Bricklink admins should agree. Just another way to
look at it.
|
The buyer has already agreed to the cancellation. This surely means that they
agree the order is cancelled and therefore over. If they don't agree that
it is finished and over, then they shouldn't agree to cancellation.
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| |
BL have to look at both sides. If both sides have already agreed to cancel it,
then the order is cancelled. Other stuff may have gone on, but both parties have
already agreed to cancel it. What else is BL meant to do if both buyer and seller
have agreed to a cancellation?
|
Well yes, it was agreed to, but as long as an order isn't refunded,
it begs the question whether you can officially consider it "cancelled". You
could consider it still a paid order until the money is returned. There shouldn't
be some loophole where sellers just tag the "cancelled" status on orders to dodge
NSS procedures, whether agreed to or not.
| |
This just shows the danger of paying a complete stranger by bank transfer, especially
in a distant country where the buyer will find it very difficult to invoke their
consumer rights. Sure, they can contact their local police but I cannot see them
doing anything. They can also contact the seller's local police but again
are they really going to do anything in a word-against-word internet transaction,
especially if this is the first and only complaint against the seller lodged
with them.
|
If a store has a good reputation it should be fine. People pay by transfer to
strangers here all the time and just rely on reputation. And the police always
warns people saying "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is". So if
the feedback profile looks good and the product wasn't underpriced, I too
would pay by IBAN.
It's true the police is very inefficient and behind in dealing with online
fraud, but I wouldn't be so pessimistic as to say that it's certain they
won't do anything. I did get most of my money back through a police report
once, and that was from a guy in Bulgaria who they managed to identify and track
down. However, that was because several people were affected by the same guy.
Anyway, it's always good to say that you're going to file a report
- even if the actual report would not result in money back, the case would still
at least be officially registered. Who knows, the police may act in the future
if more people report problems. Maybe the seller will pay up to avoid being a
known offender. (If they are indeed a scammer.. true, they may just be a little
slow for whatever reason)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 06:19 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | Well yes, it was agreed to, but as long as an order isn't refunded,
it begs the question whether you can officially consider it "cancelled".
|
I don't think it matters what others think. BL can see that both the buyer
and seller have agreed to it being cancelled, therefore it is cancelled.
| | You could consider it still a paid order until the money is returned. There shouldn't
be some loophole where sellers just tag the "cancelled" status on orders to dodge
NSS procedures, whether agreed to or not.
|
If the buyer agreed to cancel it, there is no order any more. How can an NSS
apply to a non-order?
What is even worse is that the buyer paid using an offsite method that BL cannot
see. They can say they paid, but definitive proof is difficult.
| | | | This just shows the danger of paying a complete stranger by bank transfer, especially
in a distant country where the buyer will find it very difficult to invoke their
consumer rights. Sure, they can contact their local police but I cannot see them
doing anything. They can also contact the seller's local police but again
are they really going to do anything in a word-against-word internet transaction,
especially if this is the first and only complaint against the seller lodged
with them.
|
If a store has a good reputation it should be fine. People pay by transfer to
strangers here all the time and just rely on reputation. And the police always
warns people saying "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is". So if
the feedback profile looks good and the product wasn't underpriced, I too
would pay by IBAN.
|
Sure, what you are doing there is minimizing the risk of it going wrong - same
(smallish) country so easier to get money back (if necessary in court), decent
reputation, etc - but not guaranteeing it. I think we all realise it is easier
to scam someone a long distance away than someone in the same country.
| | It's true the police is very inefficient and behind in dealing with online
fraud, but I wouldn't be so pessimistic as to say that it's certain they
won't do anything. I did get most of my money back through a police report
once, and that was from a guy in Bulgaria who they managed to identify and track
down. However, that was because several people were affected by the same guy.
Anyway, it's always good to say that you're going to file a report
- even if the actual report would not result in money back, the case would still
at least be officially registered. Who knows, the police may act in the future
if more people report problems. Maybe the seller will pay up to avoid being a
known offender. (If they are indeed a scammer.. true, they may just be a little
slow for whatever reason)
|
Yes, if they are doing this repeatedly. But that doesn't seem to be the case,
given the buyer initiated the order, then paid, then wanted it cancelled.
It wouldn't surprise me if the seller thinks the buyer is trying to scam
him - new user, barely any feedback, they order and pay, then want cancellation
and money returned by a new bank transfer.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 07:14 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Well yes, it was agreed to, but as long as an order isn't refunded,
it begs the question whether you can officially consider it "cancelled".
|
I don't think it matters what others think. BL can see that both the buyer
and seller have agreed to it being cancelled, therefore it is cancelled.
| | You could consider it still a paid order until the money is returned. There shouldn't
be some loophole where sellers just tag the "cancelled" status on orders to dodge
NSS procedures, whether agreed to or not.
|
If the buyer agreed to cancel it, there is no order any more. How can an NSS
apply to a non-order?
What is even worse is that the buyer paid using an offsite method that BL cannot
see. They can say they paid, but definitive proof is difficult.
|
Then there should be a big “Don’t agree to the cancellation until you are refunded”
somewhere.
Wouldn’t prevent the seller from cancelling unilaterally though….
| | […]
It wouldn't surprise me if the seller thinks the buyer is trying to scam
him - new user, barely any feedback, they order and pay, then want cancellation
and money returned by a new bank transfer.
|
That shouldn’t stop the seller from answering to the buyer.
They could even give a noncommittal statement… okay, that could be seen as a
delaying tactic but would still be better than total silence.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 07:55 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | | That shouldn’t stop the seller from answering to the buyer.
They could even give a noncommittal statement… okay, that could be seen as a
delaying tactic but would still be better than total silence.
|
Yes, possibly. It is complicated though, when one (or both) person(s) thinks
they are being scammed. Often we are told not to communicate further if we think
there is a scam going on so as not to give out further information. Yet one person
not communicating is then seen as the sign of a scammer by the other person.
Chances are neither is scamming here, yet each may see the other acting in a
strange way.
It would be so much easier if they payment method had the option of reject payment,
and return the payment to the original source. That way, the seller could refund
(like they can through paypal) cancelling the transaction. They are not making
a new transaction where they could lose that money and the original payment if
that is somehow reversed by the bank.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 08:21 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Well yes, it was agreed to, but as long as an order isn't refunded,
it begs the question whether you can officially consider it "cancelled".
|
I don't think it matters what others think. BL can see that both the buyer
and seller have agreed to it being cancelled, therefore it is cancelled.
| | You could consider it still a paid order until the money is returned. There shouldn't
be some loophole where sellers just tag the "cancelled" status on orders to dodge
NSS procedures, whether agreed to or not.
|
If the buyer agreed to cancel it, there is no order any more. How can an NSS
apply to a non-order?
What is even worse is that the buyer paid using an offsite method that BL cannot
see. They can say they paid, but definitive proof is difficult.
|
Well, the order is in the Bricklink system, its status is just that it's
cancelled. But if the official order status is the defining aspect, then a scammer
would always simply cancel every order they don't want an NSS for. If asked,
they could just say they didn't have the items. That way a non-shipping seller
could exist on Bricklink indefinitely.
But true, the fact the payment is offsite makes proof difficult. Screenshots
are not ideal, but are sometimes used for this, and Bricklink uses them too:
"If the order has been fully or partially refunded, please send a screenshot
of the refund receipt." ( https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2461 ). So
they could do the same in this situation.
An NSS is a seller who has both the product and the money, and Bricklink considers
it solved when the seller either ships or refunds. So IMO it's logical to
make the NSS procedure available for requesting either shipping or (as in this
case) the refund.
| |
| | | | This just shows the danger of paying a complete stranger by bank transfer, especially
in a distant country where the buyer will find it very difficult to invoke their
consumer rights. Sure, they can contact their local police but I cannot see them
doing anything. They can also contact the seller's local police but again
are they really going to do anything in a word-against-word internet transaction,
especially if this is the first and only complaint against the seller lodged
with them.
|
If a store has a good reputation it should be fine. People pay by transfer to
strangers here all the time and just rely on reputation. And the police always
warns people saying "if it looks too good to be true, it probably is". So if
the feedback profile looks good and the product wasn't underpriced, I too
would pay by IBAN.
|
Sure, what you are doing there is minimizing the risk of it going wrong - same
(smallish) country so easier to get money back (if necessary in court), decent
reputation, etc - but not guaranteeing it. I think we all realise it is easier
to scam someone a long distance away than someone in the same country.
|
I'm not saying which attitude is better, just that I understand the buyer's
decision for IBAN and I'd have done the same in that situation (also abroad).
It's not necessarily a bad decision. Everyone has a different idea about
safety and risk, and insuring everything - especially by private companies -
has its own drawbacks. It's a personal preference.
| |
| | It's true the police is very inefficient and behind in dealing with online
fraud, but I wouldn't be so pessimistic as to say that it's certain they
won't do anything. I did get most of my money back through a police report
once, and that was from a guy in Bulgaria who they managed to identify and track
down. However, that was because several people were affected by the same guy.
Anyway, it's always good to say that you're going to file a report
- even if the actual report would not result in money back, the case would still
at least be officially registered. Who knows, the police may act in the future
if more people report problems. Maybe the seller will pay up to avoid being a
known offender. (If they are indeed a scammer.. true, they may just be a little
slow for whatever reason)
|
Yes, if they are doing this repeatedly. But that doesn't seem to be the case,
given the buyer initiated the order, then paid, then wanted it cancelled.
It wouldn't surprise me if the seller thinks the buyer is trying to scam
him - new user, barely any feedback, they order and pay, then want cancellation
and money returned by a new bank transfer.
|
Once all is said and done and the seller just doesn't refund, a police report
just should be filed in any case. If nothing more, to have the fact registered.
Police tends to be slow catching up with the modern world, and if we don't
report, it seems like there's no problem.
I also think there's a good chance the seller is just slow.. if all else
fails there is of course still feedback. Most sellers (including me) are so allergic
to negative feedback that having a bit of money on the short term doesn't
compensate for having a "bad" reputation for eternity I don't see why
a long term seller with good reputation (assuming they are) would suddenly scam
someone.
It can take a week for an IBAN payment to arrive in some cases, maybe longer.
The order was cancelled after 2 days. It's likely that the seller either
thought the order wasn't paid for, or, as you said, thinks it's a scam
because they saw there was no payment yet the last time they looked, and then
decided to forget about it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | KristianME | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 11:24 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| I see that i initiated a discussion here.
Today i got an e-mail that the refund is sent, but i am not resting until the
money is back with me . But all seems fine.
He explained some reason that refund was initated through bricklink or something,
but since i dont use paypal or something that didnt go through.
However all seems fine now, my only critique is slow responses and processing,
and/or no response. I asked straight away after cancellation how refund is processed
and if he needed some info from me.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 10:11 | | Subject: | Re: Seller not refunding me | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| In General, Teup writes:
| | In General, 1001bricks writes:
| | Second, it seems you both cancelled the order. In short you sent money and cancel
a deal. Now you can't send an NRS or NSS or make BrickLink do something.
You can, but as it's a cancelled order it's going to be very difficult.
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Actually it's super weird Bricklink has no procedure for this like an NSS.
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Problem is with indirect payment, there's no way BL can know if it's
paid or not.
The buyer may lie, or the seller, or even both.
Anyway - I've received an e-mail from the OP, and he just have been fully
refunded.
Case seems to be closed, that's very nice!
Sylvain
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bricksahead | | Posted: | Feb 1, 2022 10:57 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | General | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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