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| | | Author: | anathema  | | Posted: | May 10, 2021 07:26 | | Subject: | Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | | For: | Catalog Associate | | Status: | Completed | |
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| At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
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| | | | | Author: | anathema | | Posted: | May 11, 2021 09:51 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
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Further to this: there are currently numerous listings for x550b where the seller
states explicitly that they are selling a 4.5V motor.
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | May 12, 2021 04:43 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
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Well, let's see what our category definitions state:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1568#letterE
Electric, Motor - For items that convert electricity into motion and their
accessories.
Electric, Train - For electrical items used with 4.5V, 9V, 12V, or other
LEGO train systems.
The definitions for both categories seem to be suited for inclusion of the 12V
motors. However, I believe the definition for "Electric, Train" is more specific.
The 12V motors were *only* included in Train sets, whereas the 4.5V motors were
included in some train sets and in some non-train sets. So upon initial viewing,
the 12V motors appear to me to be categorized correctly, and I trust that the
former catalog admins had these this way for a reason (most likely what I already
stated).
I will discuss this with others and see if a consensus can be reached on what
should be done, if anything.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | Author: | anathema | | Posted: | May 12, 2021 05:46 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
|
Well, let's see what our category definitions state:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1568#letterE
Electric, Motor - For items that convert electricity into motion and their
accessories.
Electric, Train - For electrical items used with 4.5V, 9V, 12V, or other
LEGO train systems.
The definitions for both categories seem to be suited for inclusion of the 12V
motors. However, I believe the definition for "Electric, Train" is more specific.
The 12V motors were *only* included in Train sets, whereas the 4.5V motors were
included in some train sets and in some non-train sets. So upon initial viewing,
the 12V motors appear to me to be categorized correctly, and I trust that the
former catalog admins had these this way for a reason (most likely what I already
stated).
I will discuss this with others and see if a consensus can be reached on what
should be done, if anything.
Cheers,
Randy
|
Yes, I figured that was the reason. But the inconsistency is clearly causing
confusion - presumably the sellers who are listing examples of x550b with a note
saying "this is a 4.5V motor" are unaware that the actual 4.5V part is under
a different category, and are just assuming that this is one of those part-variants
that BL doesn't differentiate.
FWIW, I would expect to find a motor listed under 'Motor'; it took me
a little while to work out that the 12V ones were listed elsewhere.
Meantime I will now have to contact sellers before I can place an order, to verify
that their listing is in fact for a 12V part 
Alex
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | May 12, 2021 13:27 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
|
Well, let's see what our category definitions state:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1568#letterE
Electric, Motor - For items that convert electricity into motion and their
accessories.
Electric, Train - For electrical items used with 4.5V, 9V, 12V, or other
LEGO train systems.
The definitions for both categories seem to be suited for inclusion of the 12V
motors. However, I believe the definition for "Electric, Train" is more specific.
The 12V motors were *only* included in Train sets, whereas the 4.5V motors were
included in some train sets and in some non-train sets. So upon initial viewing,
the 12V motors appear to me to be categorized correctly, and I trust that the
former catalog admins had these this way for a reason (most likely what I already
stated).
I will discuss this with others and see if a consensus can be reached on what
should be done, if anything.
Cheers,
Randy
|
Yes, I figured that was the reason. But the inconsistency is clearly causing
confusion - presumably the sellers who are listing examples of x550b with a note
saying "this is a 4.5V motor" are unaware that the actual 4.5V part is under
a different category, and are just assuming that this is one of those part-variants
that BL doesn't differentiate.
FWIW, I would expect to find a motor listed under 'Motor'; it took me
a little while to work out that the 12V ones were listed elsewhere.
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There are a lot of other motors in the train category that would also need to
be moved, and that is not going to happen.
| | Meantime I will now have to contact sellers before I can place an order, to verify
that their listing is in fact for a 12V part
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What is funny is that the motor says in a little window on top whether it is
a 4.5V or 12V motor, correct? And the titles for the items say what type of motor
is supposed to be listed under the entries, correct?
Having discussed this with the other admins, we are not sure moving these motors
would stop sellers from listing them under the incorrect entries any more than
they are now. The real problem is knowing that there are other versions available,
so I will have a look into what kind of relationships could possibly be added
to them.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | May 12, 2021 12:49 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
|
Well, let's see what our category definitions state:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1568#letterE
Electric, Motor - For items that convert electricity into motion and their
accessories.
Electric, Train - For electrical items used with 4.5V, 9V, 12V, or other
LEGO train systems.
The definitions for both categories seem to be suited for inclusion of the 12V
motors. However, I believe the definition for "Electric, Train" is more specific.
The 12V motors were *only* included in Train sets, whereas the 4.5V motors were
included in some train sets and in some non-train sets. So upon initial viewing,
the 12V motors appear to me to be categorized correctly, and I trust that the
former catalog admins had these this way for a reason (most likely what I already
stated).
I will discuss this with others and see if a consensus can be reached on what
should be done, if anything.
Cheers,
Randy
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Randy contacted me in regard to this issue.
This problem actually happened to me as well: I bought a 12v motor from a German
seller and received a 4.5v motor.
I agree with Randy in regard to categories. They are correct.
This issue is beyond their categories. I have seen sellers listing
[p=bb0007pb01]
for
[p=bb0007]
or listing
for
[p=bb0007]
(both 4.5v motors with the same category but their sizes are different)
I think we need to upload better photos for these parts and this will resolve
the problem.
There are 7 types of 4.5v motors and 2 types of 12v motors. I have bought and
collected almost all of them. Once I have the possibility, I take good photos
and submit them.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | anathema | | Posted: | May 12, 2021 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, SezaR writes:
| |
I think we need to upload better photos for these parts and this will resolve
the problem.
There are 7 types of 4.5v motors and 2 types of 12v motors. I have bought and
collected almost all of them. Once I have the possibility, I take good photos
and submit them.
|
That might help with that difference, where the motors are clearly different
sizes and/or have different markings, but I think my point stands: the only difference
between the (later) 4.5V and 12V motors is the tiny sticker visible through the
window on the top of the part. Easily overlooked, especially if you aren't
that familiar with what is now a 40+ year old part. (And some sellers aren't:
I've just bought one which turned out not to even have the motor part in
it at all - just the casing and the gearbox! The seller wasn't aware it
was missing.)
It's fairly clear that a number of sellers are unaware a) that there are
two voltages; and b) that they are listed in separate categories in the catalog.
If I were listing a motor, I can't say that it would occur to me to go looking
in 'Electric, Train' - particularly if I had obtained the motor in a
pile of parts rather than removed it from a train-set I was parting-out. Conversely,
were I parting-out a train set I might very easily assume - as several sellers
have actually done - that the listing under 'Electric, Train' was the
*only* listing, and just add a note saying "this isn't actually a 12V motor,
it's a 4.5V one".
IMO the fact that it's a *motor* should take precedence over the fact that
it's used with trains. Train motors seem to me to be an oddity in the catalog
- we don't have an 'Electric, Technic' category, for example, so
those motors go under 'Electric, Motor' despite the fact that they were
only ever available in Technic sets.
I can understand where the decision to list the 12V parts as 'Train'
rather than 'Motor' came from, but if it's causing confusion for
both sellers and buyers, surely it's better to go for simplicity here.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | May 13, 2021 00:35 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | In Catalog Requests, SezaR writes:
| |
I think we need to upload better photos for these parts and this will resolve
the problem.
There are 7 types of 4.5v motors and 2 types of 12v motors. I have bought and
collected almost all of them. Once I have the possibility, I take good photos
and submit them.
|
That might help with that difference, where the motors are clearly different
sizes and/or have different markings, but I think my point stands: the only difference
between the (later) 4.5V and 12V motors is the tiny sticker visible through the
window on the top of the part. Easily overlooked, especially if you aren't
that familiar with what is now a 40+ year old part. (And some sellers aren't:
I've just bought one which turned out not to even have the motor part in
it at all - just the casing and the gearbox! The seller wasn't aware it
was missing.)
It's fairly clear that a number of sellers are unaware a) that there are
two voltages; and b) that they are listed in separate categories in the catalog.
If I were listing a motor, I can't say that it would occur to me to go looking
in 'Electric, Train' - particularly if I had obtained the motor in a
pile of parts rather than removed it from a train-set I was parting-out. Conversely,
were I parting-out a train set I might very easily assume - as several sellers
have actually done - that the listing under 'Electric, Train' was the
*only* listing, and just add a note saying "this isn't actually a 12V motor,
it's a 4.5V one".
IMO the fact that it's a *motor* should take precedence over the fact that
it's used with trains. Train motors seem to me to be an oddity in the catalog
- we don't have an 'Electric, Technic' category, for example, so
those motors go under 'Electric, Motor' despite the fact that they were
only ever available in Technic sets.
I can understand where the decision to list the 12V parts as 'Train'
rather than 'Motor' came from, but if it's causing confusion for
both sellers and buyers, surely it's better to go for simplicity here.
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It's the classic catalog dilemma: Do you classify parts by shape or by function?
In this case, the "shape" would be a motor, and the "function" would be for trains.
It seems that most parts in the BrickLink catalog are classified by shape, but
where a significant amount of parts are serve a particular function, they are
often classified by function instead. For example, many parts in the hinge category
could also be classified as modified plates or tiles, but there are enough hinge
parts to warrant its own category. Similarly, there are enough electric parts
specifically for trains to warrant an "Electric, Train" category, whereas the
same is not true for technic because few electric parts are specific to technic.
And then there's that guy that built a car with a train motor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51o7hGimMm0
Someone else made a better one that actually looked like a racecar, but I can't
find the video.
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | May 17, 2021 02:33 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
|
The admin team and site discussed this issue over the past few days and have
reached a consensus solution. I think you will be pleased with it. 
Here is what will happen:
(1) The "Similar Parts with Different Molds" relationship will be used to link
the following motors all together: x550a, x550b, bb0006, x469b and x469bopen.
This will allow all of these similar motors to be quickly found using the relationship
from each separate entry. *COMPLETED*
(2) x550a and x550b will be moved to "Electric, Motor" category in the next round
of catalog moves on October 1, 2021. This will allow all of these similar motors
to be quickly found by browsing the "Electric, Motor" category. The reason for
these moves is that the actual 12V motor (x551) contained in these assembled
motors already resides in this category. See https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2509
(3) All 12V motors in the "Electric, Motor" category will be tagged in their
names with the additional keyword "(Train)" since they were only used for trains.
This will allow them to be found with a "train motor" search outside of the new
category.
Thank you for your patience as we worked through this.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Nov 1, 2021 12:12 | | Subject: | Re: Category for 12V motors x550a and x550b | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Catalog Requests | |
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| In Catalog Requests, anathema writes:
| | At present these motors are categorised as 'Electric, Train', wheareas
their 4.5V counterparts bb0006 and x469b are under 'Electric, Motor'.
This is causing some confusion: I have now purchased three motors which the sellers
had listed as being 12V which, on arrival, turned out to be the 4.5V variant.
The sellers were unaware of their error until I pointed it out.
Can we put the 12V motors in the 'Motor' category, please?
|
This has now been completed per https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2509
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United Kingdom, England
USA, Ohio
Canada, British Columbia
