|
 |
| | | Author: | CanadaFirst  | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 14:31 | | Subject: | Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 369 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
|
| We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | rick_holl | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 14:33 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
I second that
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 14:34 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
...or simply support already existing suggestions: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1176270
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | CanadaFirst | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 14:35 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, popsicle writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
...or simply support already existing suggestions: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1176270
|
Thanks, I voted yes on it.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 14:38 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | In Suggestions, popsicle writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
...or simply support already existing suggestions: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1176270
|
Thanks, I voted yes on it.
|
Thanks. I've been long fighting for this!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Bricks_NW_UK | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 14:48 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I have voted yes too!
I simply do not follow the thought process from the management at Bricklink on
this. Neutral is zero.
My percentage got screwed because a new buyer gave me a neutral without contacting
me first saying parts were missing. I knew they were complete as I always take
photos of order to new buyers and these with low FB's. I do the same with
anything out of the normal.
I did contact them and offered to send what he said was wrong (even though I
had evidence to the contrary) but he never got back to me. I was sorely tempted
to give him a negative as he deserved it in my opinion, but I just gave him no
response.
However it screwed my percentage and it shouldn't have
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | tEoS | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 14:41 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Voted no.
Humans are imperfect, so striving for perfection is an unrealistic goal that
some people impose upon themselves. These expectations will only lead to disappointment
and suffering.
People don't shine when everything is going "right" or as planned, it is
how they handle disappointment and adversity that truly allows one the opportunity
to become better.
In the context of non-positive feedback, I think that how one addresses/handles
the situation is far more telling than the feedback itself.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 15:00 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
| | Voted no.
Humans are imperfect, so striving for perfection is an unrealistic goal that
some people impose upon themselves. These expectations will only lead to disappointment
and suffering.
People don't shine when everything is going "right" or as planned, it is
how they handle disappointment and adversity that truly allows one the opportunity
to become better.
In the context of non-positive feedback, I think that how one addresses/handles
the situation is far more telling than the feedback itself.
|
Well aren't you the rebel, Tim! The question is: do you have a cause? 
I've heard both sides of this argument, ad nauseam over the years! Your input
is compelling on an emotional level, but wrong in the empirical, which is where
we should try and keep feedback.
-popsicle
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | CanadaFirst | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 15:00 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
| | Voted no.
Humans are imperfect, so striving for perfection is an unrealistic goal that
some people impose upon themselves. These expectations will only lead to disappointment
and suffering.
People don't shine when everything is going "right" or as planned, it is
how they handle disappointment and adversity that truly allows one the opportunity
to become better.
In the context of non-positive feedback, I think that how one addresses/handles
the situation is far more telling than the feedback itself.
|
While I completely understand what you're saying, it remains that Neutral
is not neutral on bricklink whereas it often is on other platforms so we're
not talking about perfection, just asking that when someone who is completely
new to the platform and posts a neutral feedback it doesn't make the praise
percentage go down.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 15:14 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Yep, voted yes. Pretty simply equation really: If there are 3 options, and one
of them accounts of 98% of the cases and the other two options are left for the
other 2%, that is just bad design. That means these are not meaningful options.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 17:13 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Yep, voted yes. Pretty simply equation really: If there are 3 options, and one
of them accounts of 98% of the cases and the other two options are left for the
other 2%, that is just bad design. That means these are not meaningful options.
|
It is meaningful though. Consider this - customers are asked to rate their experience.
They can say (i) good, (ii) neither good nor bad or (iii) bad. 98 say good, one
neither good nor bad and one bad. What percentage said they had a good experience?
To me, it is 98% and that is a meaningful number.
I'd much prefer percentage praise rather than percentage that wasn't
dreadful. The latter implies a seller that rakes up lots of neutrals is doing
fine.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 17:22 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Yep, voted yes. Pretty simply equation really: If there are 3 options, and one
of them accounts of 98% of the cases and the other two options are left for the
other 2%, that is just bad design. That means these are not meaningful options.
|
It is meaningful though. Consider this - customers are asked to rate their experience.
They can say (i) good, (ii) neither good nor bad or (iii) bad. 98 say good, one
neither good nor bad and one bad. What percentage said they had a good experience?
To me, it is 98% and that is a meaningful number.
I'd much prefer percentage praise rather than percentage that wasn't
dreadful. The latter implies a seller that rakes up lots of neutrals is doing
fine.
|
I just think the range of experiences is not well covered with 3 labels when
one represents everything from "got it the next day and everything was complete,
used bricks as new, neatly organised and safely packed" to "pretty slow and some
parts missing but refunded after I asked twice".. It's not great information.
Ok, I'm not sure about how a percentage should be formulated and if it should
be formulated at all. Maybe this is not the best suggestion of the many we've
seen to improve feedback, but I do think something has to be done to make the
praise option less generic and the large abrupt drop to neutral as the next option
a bit more smooth.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 17:32 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | |
I just think the range of experiences is not well covered with 3 labels when
one represents everything from "got it the next day and everything was complete,
used bricks as new, neatly organised and safely packed" to "pretty slow and some
parts missing but refunded after I asked twice".. It's not great information.
Ok, I'm not sure about how a percentage should be formulated and if it should
be formulated at all. Maybe this is not the best suggestion of the many we've
seen to improve feedback, but I do think something has to be done to make the
praise option less generic and the large abrupt drop to neutral as the next option
a bit more smooth.
|
The problem here is that neutral is not praise so should not be counted as such.
Similarly it should not be dismissed as uncountable. Someone has left that feedback
and so it should be taken into account.
Personally, I don't think adding more range will help at all. If you could
rank 1...5, I'd probably rank most of my positives as 4 instead. They don't
quite live up to the best sellers I buy from. Presumably that would cause sellers
more stress as they are not getting 5 when previously they'd get positive.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 17:43 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | […]
I just think the range of experiences is not well covered with 3 labels when
one represents everything from "got it the next day and everything was complete,
used bricks as new, neatly organised and safely packed" to "pretty slow and some
parts missing but refunded after I asked twice".. It's not great information.
|
Now: 3 labels + “no FB.” You can see the first ones with the percentage and
the summary shown in each store. You can see the 4th by looking at the ratio
number of FB / number sales.
This suggestion: 3 labels + “no FB” but one is treated the same as “no FB,” so
that actually reduces the number of labels to two + “no FB.”
And how would that make the feedback better show the “range of experiences”?
| | Ok, I'm not sure about how a percentage should be formulated and if it should
be formulated at all. Maybe this is not the best suggestion of the many we've
seen to improve feedback, but I do think something has to be done to make the
praise option less generic and the large abrupt drop to neutral as the next option
a bit more smooth.
|
You think a 4-5 stars system would be better?
You’ll have “all is great! 3/5” and “missing half the parts but arrived quickly!
5/5.”
Besides, don’t forget that people (are whining that people) leave fewer and fewer
FB each year. Complicating the notation won’t help there.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 17:52 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | […]
I just think the range of experiences is not well covered with 3 labels when
one represents everything from "got it the next day and everything was complete,
used bricks as new, neatly organised and safely packed" to "pretty slow and some
parts missing but refunded after I asked twice".. It's not great information.
|
Now: 3 labels + “no FB.” You can see the first ones with the percentage and
the summary shown in each store. You can see the 4th by looking at the ratio
number of FB / number sales.
This suggestion: 3 labels + “no FB” but one is treated the same as “no FB,” so
that actually reduces the number of labels to two + “no FB.”
And how would that make the feedback better show the “range of experiences”?
| | Ok, I'm not sure about how a percentage should be formulated and if it should
be formulated at all. Maybe this is not the best suggestion of the many we've
seen to improve feedback, but I do think something has to be done to make the
praise option less generic and the large abrupt drop to neutral as the next option
a bit more smooth.
|
You think a 4-5 stars system would be better?
You’ll have “all is great! 3/5” and “missing half the parts but arrived quickly!
5/5.”
Besides, don’t forget that people (are whining that people) leave fewer and fewer
FB each year. Complicating the notation won’t help there.
|
Well.. Methinks you're thinking in problems. Webshop quality marks that I
know all work with a scale of at least 5. Why should Bricklink be so different?
If people leave little feedback, this is a problem in and of itself and shouldn't
be solved by a sloppy feedback system, but by improving the interface so that
leaving feedback shows up in people's to-do items.
Right now I just can't tell the difference between an OK shop that hasn't
screwed up, and a shop with excellent service. When I go shopping outside Bricklink,
I usually can.
As I usually buy because I am missing parts for my customers, it matters very
much that it is fast and that the part types are 100% accurate. Then it's
important for me to know more than just "this one is ok". I can do it based on
my own experiences with different shops, but I would rather do it based on other
peoples experiences.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 18:20 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | […]
Well.. Methinks you're thinking in problems. Webshop quality marks that I
know all work with a scale of at least 5. Why should Bricklink be so different?
|
Billions upon billions of flies eat shit every day. Surely, they can’t be all
wrong.
| | If people leave little feedback, this is a problem in and of itself and shouldn't
be solved by a sloppy feedback system, but by improving the interface so that
leaving feedback shows up in people's to-do items.
|
First, it’s already the case.
Second, praised be BL for letting us shut that off!
Third, even if it weren’t configurable, people would ignore it anyway. (I even
believe it’s on by default.)
| | Right now I just can't tell the difference between an OK shop that hasn't
screwed up, and a shop with excellent service. When I go shopping outside Bricklink,
I usually can. […]
|
But will doing what this suggestion wants change anything in that?
Nope.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 18:25 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Forgot this one.
In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | […]
Well.. Methinks you're thinking in problems.
|
|
So, when I want to change things in the catalogue, you oppose the changes saying
I’m imagining problems and will create more problems than there’s because all
is working well and has reached a practical optimum, but when you want to change
the feedback system it’s still me who’s thinking in problems?
Double standards, no? 
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 03:48 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | Forgot this one.
In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | […]
Well.. Methinks you're thinking in problems.
|
|
So, when I want to change things in the catalogue, you oppose the changes saying
I’m imagining problems and will create more problems than there’s because all
is working well and has reached a practical optimum, but when you want to change
the feedback system it’s still me who’s thinking in problems?
Double standards, no?
|
Nah, there is no cost in changing the feedback system - at least, I don't
think there's anybody who has their administration or anything based on it...
or maybe it will ruin Bill's stats? Not sure 
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 03:47 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | […]
Well.. Methinks you're thinking in problems. Webshop quality marks that I
know all work with a scale of at least 5. Why should Bricklink be so different?
|
Billions upon billions of flies eat shit every day. Surely, they can’t be all
wrong.
| | If people leave little feedback, this is a problem in and of itself and shouldn't
be solved by a sloppy feedback system, but by improving the interface so that
leaving feedback shows up in people's to-do items.
|
First, it’s already the case.
Second, praised be BL for letting us shut that off!
Third, even if it weren’t configurable, people would ignore it anyway. (I even
believe it’s on by default.)
| | Right now I just can't tell the difference between an OK shop that hasn't
screwed up, and a shop with excellent service. When I go shopping outside Bricklink,
I usually can. […]
|
But will doing what this suggestion wants change anything in that?
Nope.
|
So do you have a better proposal? Because I don't think you would consider
the feedback system that just was created ad hoc by Dan 20 years ago is good
for a professional global marketplace?
The problems are obvious:
- Neutral does not mean neutral. This has to be explained over and over again,
and there are many topics where users give each other advice how to explain to
new users neutral does not mean neutral. It's not intuitive and store's
feedback score now depends on whether the new customers they had were willing
to learn what neutral means.
- The best thing I can think of doing when an order is just OK with some problems,
is to just not leave any feedback. But there's a world of difference between
a seller delivering a barely OK order, and not having had any order.
- The feedback scores are a prominent feature - they're even behind our usernames.
But the system of positive = +1, neutral = 0, negative = -1 is again just a quick
decision by Dan that does not lead to any meaningful scores. A store with 90
positives is not the same as one with 100 positives and 10 negatives. A user
with no feedback is not the same as one with 100 neutrals. The numbers (that
are plastered al over the place) are basically meaningless. Better even to just
count ever single feedback as a +1, so that the number at least would represent
how many times someone had feedback.
Surely we need a biiiit of improvement here?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | bje | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 02:37 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
|
snip
| |
Yep, voted yes. Pretty simply equation really: If there are 3 options, and one
of them accounts of 98% of the cases and the other two options are left for the
other 2%, that is just bad design. That means these are not meaningful options.
|
When I read this, I had the disturbing thought that BL do not understand statistics.
Scene at Bricklink office: Some user made a new suggestion!!! Lets see the votes:
200 Yes votes;
10 No votes;
700 000 Abstains
% wanting the suggestion: 200/700210 = 0.02%
Obviously members do like this suggestion, so we can ignore it. Yes!! Less work
on a Friday!!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 03:11 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | […]
Scene at Bricklink office: Some user made a new suggestion!!! Lets see the votes:
200 Yes votes;
10 No votes;
700 000 Abstains
% wanting the suggestion: 200/700210 = 0.02%
Obviously members do like this suggestion, so we can ignore it. Yes!! Less work
on a Friday!!
|
A “not” missing? “members do not like”
Or a “very few”? “very few members
do like”
Anyway, neutral ≠ abstain. No FB = abstain.
And you should not count the 699,790 members who haven’t even read the suggestion
in the elective body. That would be like counting the millions of transactions
a seller didn’t take part in for their stats: 763 positive, 0 neutral, 3 negative,
your score is 763 positive / 14,000,000 total orders on BL = 0.005%.
Methinks there’s three kinds of people: those who can’t do statistics.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bje | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 03:31 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | […]
Scene at Bricklink office: Some user made a new suggestion!!! Lets see the votes:
200 Yes votes;
10 No votes;
700 000 Abstains
% wanting the suggestion: 200/700210 = 0.02%
Obviously members do like this suggestion, so we can ignore it. Yes!! Less work
on a Friday!!
|
A “not” missing? “members do not like”
|
Friday typo, my normal curve got distributed to the weekend
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 03:31 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | […]
Scene at Bricklink office: Some user made a new suggestion!!! Lets see the votes:
200 Yes votes;
10 No votes;
700 000 Abstains
% wanting the suggestion: 200/700210 = 0.02%
Obviously members do like this suggestion, so we can ignore it. Yes!! Less work
on a Friday!!
|
A “not” missing? “members do not like”
|
Or a “very few”? “very few members
| | do like”
Anyway, neutral ≠ abstain. No FB = abstain.
And you should not count the 699,790 members who haven’t even read the suggestion
in the elective body. That would be like counting the millions of transactions
a seller didn’t take part in for their stats: 763 positive, 0 neutral, 3 negative,
your score is 763 positive / 14,000,000 total orders on BL = 0.005%.
Methinks there’s three kinds of people: those who can’t do statistics.
|
Grr, I’m not clear:
The seller’s score isn’t calculated on their total number of sales. It’s on
the total number of votes cast.
In an election, there’s:
P, the total number of people,
T, the number of potential voters,
V, the number of people who vote,
Sn, the numbers of people who vote for each valid option,
S, the sum of the Sn.
The winner is the one with the best Si / S.
And that’s what BL calculates: number of positive / total number of opinions.
Not the number of positive / total number of sales, and even less number of positive
/ total number of sales for all sellers.
Which is what your joke would imply.
And what this suggestion is, is to remove neutral as a valid option and make
it as “no vote.” So simply suggest that but don’t try to make it seem the actual
calculation is totally bogus. It’s not, it’s the presented arguments that are.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 07:54 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | […]
Scene at Bricklink office: Some user made a new suggestion!!! Lets see the votes:
200 Yes votes;
10 No votes;
700 000 Abstains
% wanting the suggestion: 200/700210 = 0.02%
Obviously members do like this suggestion, so we can ignore it. Yes!! Less work
on a Friday!!
|
A “not” missing? “members do not like”
|
Or a “very few”? “very few members
| | do like”
Anyway, neutral ≠ abstain. No FB = abstain.
And you should not count the 699,790 members who haven’t even read the suggestion
in the elective body. That would be like counting the millions of transactions
a seller didn’t take part in for their stats: 763 positive, 0 neutral, 3 negative,
your score is 763 positive / 14,000,000 total orders on BL = 0.005%.
Methinks there’s three kinds of people: those who can’t do statistics.
|
I agree. Neutral is not abstaining. It is saying that it was not a transaction
that deserves praise. Therefore it should count against a seller when calculating
the percentage of praiseworthy feedback they have.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 17:06 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
It is percentage praise, not percentage non-negative. So voted no.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | pitz8008 | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 18:23 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Honestly, I think the real issue here is that you stacked bricks for your buyer.
And a more seasoned Bricklink buyer might have actually given you a negative
for that. Just my two cents since that's what led to this post.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | CanadaFirst | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 19:01 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, pitz8008 writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Honestly, I think the real issue here is that you stacked bricks for your buyer.
And a more seasoned Bricklink buyer might have actually given you a negative
for that. Just my two cents since that's what led to this post.
|
Honestly, this isn't that. Yes, we received a neutral feedback and this time
we decided to talk about the feedback system. But it's something that has
been an issue for a long time and not just for our shop. There are threads that
go back two years with the same issue.
That being said, we never stack new parts so that they remain new.
We stack used parts so we can better see which ones are scratched and which ones
aren't. So we can better see which ones are discolored. So that they are
quicker to pick and count. Used parts can be stacked, they are not new and a
lot of them have been played with and stacked and unstacked many times so stacking
them is not an issue. We never had a buyer complain about stacked USED parts
before and in all honesty, I fail to see how stacking USED parts can be an issue
for anyone. I can understand for new since once you've stacked them they
are in a way 'used' but for used parts that might have been built and
taken apart tens or hundreds of times? It's completely irrelevant. If I'm
wrong because of a reason I didn't think of please let me know, I'm always
willing to learn.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 02:31 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | In Suggestions, pitz8008 writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Honestly, I think the real issue here is that you stacked bricks for your buyer.
And a more seasoned Bricklink buyer might have actually given you a negative
for that. Just my two cents since that's what led to this post.
|
Honestly, this isn't that. Yes, we received a neutral feedback and this time
we decided to talk about the feedback system. But it's something that has
been an issue for a long time and not just for our shop. There are threads that
go back two years with the same issue.
That being said, we never stack new parts so that they remain new.
We stack used parts so we can better see which ones are scratched and which ones
aren't. So we can better see which ones are discolored. So that they are
quicker to pick and count. Used parts can be stacked, they are not new and a
lot of them have been played with and stacked and unstacked many times so stacking
them is not an issue. We never had a buyer complain about stacked USED parts
before and in all honesty, I fail to see how stacking USED parts can be an issue
for anyone. I can understand for new since once you've stacked them they
are in a way 'used' but for used parts that might have been built and
taken apart tens or hundreds of times? It's completely irrelevant. If I'm
wrong because of a reason I didn't think of please let me know, I'm always
willing to learn.
|
Time yourself unstacking 100 6x8 plates, or other large plates. There is one
reason.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 22:06 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Using this suggestion...
First store:
1000 positive feedback + 100 neutral feedback + 0 negative feedback = 100% score
Second store:
200 positive feedback + 0 neutral feedback + 1 negative feedback = 99.5% score
Which one is the better store?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Aug 20, 2020 23:09 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Using this suggestion...
First store:
1000 positive feedback + 100 neutral feedback + 0 negative feedback = 100% score
Second store:
200 positive feedback + 0 neutral feedback + 1 negative feedback = 99.5% score
Which one is the better store?
|
In my opinion, the answer to this and lots of similar ones is "Stop obsessing
so much about your percentage and score". I don't think most customers even
pay attention to it. And the ones that do aren't going to see a 97% and
run away. If it seems low to them, they'll want to see what the complaints
were and if it was just someone saying they had a ho-hum experience in your store
it isn't going to matter.
If something needs to be done about the percentage calculation, perhaps just
getting rid of the percentage calculation is the answer.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 02:28 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, axaday writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Using this suggestion...
First store:
1000 positive feedback + 100 neutral feedback + 0 negative feedback = 100% score
Second store:
200 positive feedback + 0 neutral feedback + 1 negative feedback = 99.5% score
Which one is the better store?
|
In my opinion, the answer to this and lots of similar ones is "Stop obsessing
so much about your percentage and score". I don't think most customers even
pay attention to it. And the ones that do aren't going to see a 97% and
run away. If it seems low to them, they'll want to see what the complaints
were and if it was just someone saying they had a ho-hum experience in your store
it isn't going to matter.
If something needs to be done about the percentage calculation, perhaps just
getting rid of the percentage calculation is the answer.
|
The percentage is a warning against high feedback stores that have lots of neutrals
or negs. Although only if people use it to prompt them to look at the feedback.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 07:18 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, axaday writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Using this suggestion...
First store:
1000 positive feedback + 100 neutral feedback + 0 negative feedback = 100% score
Second store:
200 positive feedback + 0 neutral feedback + 1 negative feedback = 99.5% score
Which one is the better store?
|
In my opinion, the answer to this and lots of similar ones is "Stop obsessing
so much about your percentage and score". I don't think most customers even
pay attention to it. And the ones that do aren't going to see a 97% and
run away. If it seems low to them, they'll want to see what the complaints
were and if it was just someone saying they had a ho-hum experience in your store
it isn't going to matter.
If something needs to be done about the percentage calculation, perhaps just
getting rid of the percentage calculation is the answer.
|
The percentage is a warning against high feedback stores that have lots of neutrals
or negs. Although only if people use it to prompt them to look at the feedback.
|
What if we just changed the Feedback "score" to tell the whole truth concisely?
axaday(4777 2 0) with the numbers in color.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 07:49 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| That would be fine by me.
Even better, show only selling feedback when in a store.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | LordSkylark | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 13:16 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, axaday writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, axaday writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Using this suggestion...
First store:
1000 positive feedback + 100 neutral feedback + 0 negative feedback = 100% score
Second store:
200 positive feedback + 0 neutral feedback + 1 negative feedback = 99.5% score
Which one is the better store?
|
In my opinion, the answer to this and lots of similar ones is "Stop obsessing
so much about your percentage and score". I don't think most customers even
pay attention to it. And the ones that do aren't going to see a 97% and
run away. If it seems low to them, they'll want to see what the complaints
were and if it was just someone saying they had a ho-hum experience in your store
it isn't going to matter.
If something needs to be done about the percentage calculation, perhaps just
getting rid of the percentage calculation is the answer.
|
The percentage is a warning against high feedback stores that have lots of neutrals
or negs. Although only if people use it to prompt them to look at the feedback.
|
What if we just changed the Feedback "score" to tell the whole truth concisely?
axaday(4777 2 0) with the numbers in color.
|
Much better. That way it would be very easy to spot without having to click on
every user's/store's number.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 13:20 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, axaday writes:
| | In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, axaday writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| | In Suggestions, CanadaFirst writes:
| | We all know that currently the way feedback works is kinda borked. The feedback
percentage counts Positive vs other feedbacks and so it causes a neutral feedback
to lower that score. Neutral feedback should simply not be a part of the equation.
It should be positive vs megative and completely disregard neutral feedback so
that neutral feedback is actually neutral and not 'negative light'.
New users do not understand that leaving a neutral feedback hurts the shop's
feedback percentage and to be honest, it's completely understandable because
neutral should be neutral, it should not have any incidence on a shop's feedback
percentage.
|
Using this suggestion...
First store:
1000 positive feedback + 100 neutral feedback + 0 negative feedback = 100% score
Second store:
200 positive feedback + 0 neutral feedback + 1 negative feedback = 99.5% score
Which one is the better store?
|
In my opinion, the answer to this and lots of similar ones is "Stop obsessing
so much about your percentage and score". I don't think most customers even
pay attention to it. And the ones that do aren't going to see a 97% and
run away. If it seems low to them, they'll want to see what the complaints
were and if it was just someone saying they had a ho-hum experience in your store
it isn't going to matter.
If something needs to be done about the percentage calculation, perhaps just
getting rid of the percentage calculation is the answer.
|
The percentage is a warning against high feedback stores that have lots of neutrals
or negs. Although only if people use it to prompt them to look at the feedback.
|
What if we just changed the Feedback "score" to tell the whole truth concisely?
axaday(4777 2 0) with the numbers in color.
|
I like that. Not sure what the best final design is for the feedback system,
but as an immediate solution, it would be much better than what we have right
now.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | brickconnector | | Posted: | Aug 21, 2020 02:53 | | Subject: | Re: Make neutral feedback actually NEUTRAL | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I voted YES. Neutral means in between, no opinion, no judgment.
It should be treated that way.
|
|
|
|
|
Canada, Quebec
USA, Washington
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Utrecht
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
South Africa, Western Cape
