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| | | Author: | Legopeter  | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 13:55 | | Subject: | Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 579 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
|
| Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
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| | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:02 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 147 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
Least favourite, empty cart and go shopping again.
You may send the store a message saying that you've emptied your cart because
of fees, but I'm not sure they will care..
The message there is clear, if you can't spend 2 Euro per lot, it's not worth
my time to pick that order.
If the site continues to allow non-lego to be sold, I'm pretty sure they won'
care about extra fees.. well, maybe they will if the 3% doesn't include the extra
fees.
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 17:50 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 102 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 20:28 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
|
I think that a formalized way to process additional fees would be great, but
the icons that you describe would be a bad idea. First, because it is drawing
attention to such fees at the wrong time. Those sorts of costs should come up
once a buyer is in a store, and reviewing the Terms, or preparing to place an
order. Right now, Terms are all hand-written by individual sellers. Formalization
of this process would be fantastic.
The second reason that those target icons are a bad idea is that it would encourage
sellers to simply hide their fees, so that they don't have the icon.
| | Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
Or what about me, shipping an order to the US? The actual face value of the postage
on many such shipments is $2.48. Is that what I should charge? But wait -- that's
not the actual shipping cost, because I need to pay 32 cents in tax on that postage.
So if I charge $2.80, is that "exact shipping"? Or is it a fee? If it count as
exact shipping, what about this -- if I'm sending over $5 worth of stuff to the
US on one visit to the post office, then I don't pay tax. Does that mean that
I am now over-charging customers if I charge them $2.80 on a day that I will
be shipping several such packages, but it's exact shipping on a day that I'm
only sending one?
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 23:47 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
|
I think that a formalized way to process additional fees would be great, but
the icons that you describe would be a bad idea. First, because it is drawing
attention to such fees at the wrong time. Those sorts of costs should come up
once a buyer is in a store, and reviewing the Terms, or preparing to place an
order. Right now, Terms are all hand-written by individual sellers. Formalization
of this process would be fantastic.
The second reason that those target icons are a bad idea is that it would encourage
sellers to simply hide their fees, so that they don't have the icon.
| | Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
Or what about me, shipping an order to the US? The actual face value of the postage
on many such shipments is $2.48. Is that what I should charge? But wait -- that's
not the actual shipping cost, because I need to pay 32 cents in tax on that postage.
So if I charge $2.80, is that "exact shipping"? Or is it a fee? If it count as
exact shipping, what about this -- if I'm sending over $5 worth of stuff to the
US on one visit to the post office, then I don't pay tax. Does that mean that
I am now over-charging customers if I charge them $2.80 on a day that I will
be shipping several such packages, but it's exact shipping on a day that I'm
only sending one?
--
Marc.
|
I should have said, cost of shipping is what I pay the post office. that is how
I did it. I did not add to the post office charge and passed my on-line discount
on to the buyer. The other costs are added into the price of the item.
As for the icon, if a fee is not listed, a seller cannot charge it. There would
be no hidden fees, except into the price of the item which would make it all
above board.
Then the playing field would be level.
John P
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 00:33 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
|
I should have said, cost of shipping is what I pay the post office. that is how
I did it. I did not add to the post office charge and passed my on-line discount
on to the buyer. The other costs are added into the price of the item.
As for the icon, if a fee is not listed, a seller cannot charge it. There would
be no hidden fees, except into the price of the item which would make it all
above board.
Then the playing field would be level.
John P
|
But it could mean that the actual cost of shipping would skyrocket, as described
above. You are potentially encouraging sellers to save money by increasing the
cost of shipping to the buyer.
--
Marc.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 00:37 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
|
I think that a formalized way to process additional fees would be great, but
the icons that you describe would be a bad idea. First, because it is drawing
attention to such fees at the wrong time. Those sorts of costs should come up
once a buyer is in a store, and reviewing the Terms, or preparing to place an
order. Right now, Terms are all hand-written by individual sellers. Formalization
of this process would be fantastic.
The second reason that those target icons are a bad idea is that it would encourage
sellers to simply hide their fees, so that they don't have the icon.
| | Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
Or what about me, shipping an order to the US? The actual face value of the postage
on many such shipments is $2.48. Is that what I should charge? But wait -- that's
not the actual shipping cost, because I need to pay 32 cents in tax on that postage.
So if I charge $2.80, is that "exact shipping"? Or is it a fee? If it count as
exact shipping, what about this -- if I'm sending over $5 worth of stuff to the
US on one visit to the post office, then I don't pay tax. Does that mean that
I am now over-charging customers if I charge them $2.80 on a day that I will
be shipping several such packages, but it's exact shipping on a day that I'm
only sending one?
--
Marc.
|
I should have said, cost of shipping is what I pay the post office. that is how
I did it. I did not add to the post office charge and passed my on-line discount
on to the buyer. The other costs are added into the price of the item.
As for the icon, if a fee is not listed, a seller cannot charge it. There would
be no hidden fees, except into the price of the item which would make it all
above board.
Then the playing field would be level.
John P
|
Except the playing field wouldn't be level because this is just one factor that
is important in the overall pricing discussion.
For those of us that run everything on the up and up and pay taxes, we are at
a disadvantage to those that do not report their income or choose to not pay
any taxes.
Should there be an icon for that? Or maybe everyone gets a 1099 (or Int'l equivalent)
every year from BL to keep the field level?
How about a "we use old food boxes for packing" icon? I mean buyers want to
compare fees...Is $3 for a new envelope better than $1.50 for something wrapped
in old newspaper? I have no idea because that is up to each buyer to decide...just
like the current structure.
It all sounds great, but forcing something on everyone will not work. I like
the option to list everything up front in terms of fees that may or may not be
added to the shipping charge, but I also like the option for sellers to opt out
if they wish.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
|
I think that a formalized way to process additional fees would be great, but
the icons that you describe would be a bad idea. First, because it is drawing
attention to such fees at the wrong time. Those sorts of costs should come up
once a buyer is in a store, and reviewing the Terms, or preparing to place an
order. Right now, Terms are all hand-written by individual sellers. Formalization
of this process would be fantastic.
The second reason that those target icons are a bad idea is that it would encourage
sellers to simply hide their fees, so that they don't have the icon.
| | Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
Or what about me, shipping an order to the US? The actual face value of the postage
on many such shipments is $2.48. Is that what I should charge? But wait -- that's
not the actual shipping cost, because I need to pay 32 cents in tax on that postage.
So if I charge $2.80, is that "exact shipping"? Or is it a fee? If it count as
exact shipping, what about this -- if I'm sending over $5 worth of stuff to the
US on one visit to the post office, then I don't pay tax. Does that mean that
I am now over-charging customers if I charge them $2.80 on a day that I will
be shipping several such packages, but it's exact shipping on a day that I'm
only sending one?
--
Marc.
|
I should have said, cost of shipping is what I pay the post office. that is how
I did it. I did not add to the post office charge and passed my on-line discount
on to the buyer. The other costs are added into the price of the item.
As for the icon, if a fee is not listed, a seller cannot charge it. There would
be no hidden fees, except into the price of the item which would make it all
above board.
Then the playing field would be level.
John P
|
Except the playing field wouldn't be level because this is just one factor that
is important in the overall pricing discussion.
For those of us that run everything on the up and up and pay taxes, we are at
a disadvantage to those that do not report their income or choose to not pay
any taxes.
Should there be an icon for that? Or maybe everyone gets a 1099 (or Int'l equivalent)
every year from BL to keep the field level?
How about a "we use old food boxes for packing" icon? I mean buyers want to
compare fees...Is $3 for a new envelope better than $1.50 for something wrapped
in old newspaper? I have no idea because that is up to each buyer to decide...just
like the current structure.
It all sounds great, but forcing something on everyone will not work. I like
the option to list everything up front in terms of fees that may or may not be
added to the shipping charge, but I also like the option for sellers to opt out
if they wish.
Scott
|
Scott, BrickLink forces a lot on everybody here, conversion, nothing other than
Lego, , the feedback rules, 3 strikes and you are out, and on and on.
The charges listed would be the only ones that a buyer would have to pay. If
you are using old boxes then you would not list a fee. Little detail is necessary,
handling charges could be all the items you listed. It the seller does not list
that fee, no fee can be charged.
But I must say the whole thing is moot, though that is the wrong, but customary
use of the word moot.
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 17:28 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
|
I think that a formalized way to process additional fees would be great, but
the icons that you describe would be a bad idea. First, because it is drawing
attention to such fees at the wrong time. Those sorts of costs should come up
once a buyer is in a store, and reviewing the Terms, or preparing to place an
order. Right now, Terms are all hand-written by individual sellers. Formalization
of this process would be fantastic.
The second reason that those target icons are a bad idea is that it would encourage
sellers to simply hide their fees, so that they don't have the icon.
| | Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
Or what about me, shipping an order to the US? The actual face value of the postage
on many such shipments is $2.48. Is that what I should charge? But wait -- that's
not the actual shipping cost, because I need to pay 32 cents in tax on that postage.
So if I charge $2.80, is that "exact shipping"? Or is it a fee? If it count as
exact shipping, what about this -- if I'm sending over $5 worth of stuff to the
US on one visit to the post office, then I don't pay tax. Does that mean that
I am now over-charging customers if I charge them $2.80 on a day that I will
be shipping several such packages, but it's exact shipping on a day that I'm
only sending one?
--
Marc.
|
I should have said, cost of shipping is what I pay the post office. that is how
I did it. I did not add to the post office charge and passed my on-line discount
on to the buyer. The other costs are added into the price of the item.
As for the icon, if a fee is not listed, a seller cannot charge it. There would
be no hidden fees, except into the price of the item which would make it all
above board.
Then the playing field would be level.
John P
|
Except the playing field wouldn't be level because this is just one factor that
is important in the overall pricing discussion.
For those of us that run everything on the up and up and pay taxes, we are at
a disadvantage to those that do not report their income or choose to not pay
any taxes.
Should there be an icon for that? Or maybe everyone gets a 1099 (or Int'l equivalent)
every year from BL to keep the field level?
How about a "we use old food boxes for packing" icon? I mean buyers want to
compare fees...Is $3 for a new envelope better than $1.50 for something wrapped
in old newspaper? I have no idea because that is up to each buyer to decide...just
like the current structure.
It all sounds great, but forcing something on everyone will not work. I like
the option to list everything up front in terms of fees that may or may not be
added to the shipping charge, but I also like the option for sellers to opt out
if they wish.
Scott
|
Scott, BrickLink forces a lot on everybody here, conversion, nothing other than
Lego, , the feedback rules, 3 strikes and you are out, and on and on.
The charges listed would be the only ones that a buyer would have to pay. If
you are using old boxes then you would not list a fee. Little detail is necessary,
handling charges could be all the items you listed. It the seller does not list
that fee, no fee can be charged.
But I must say the whole thing is moot, though that is the wrong, but customary
use of the word moot.
John P
|
So if someone uses *ahem* "low cost packaging materials" like an old dirty box
they would be rewarded with a "no fee" icon, but a seller charging a few cents
for new packaging as part of their shipping fee would be branded with a fee icon?
I can't imagine that would fly.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
|
I think that a formalized way to process additional fees would be great, but
the icons that you describe would be a bad idea. First, because it is drawing
attention to such fees at the wrong time. Those sorts of costs should come up
once a buyer is in a store, and reviewing the Terms, or preparing to place an
order. Right now, Terms are all hand-written by individual sellers. Formalization
of this process would be fantastic.
The second reason that those target icons are a bad idea is that it would encourage
sellers to simply hide their fees, so that they don't have the icon.
| | Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
Or what about me, shipping an order to the US? The actual face value of the postage
on many such shipments is $2.48. Is that what I should charge? But wait -- that's
not the actual shipping cost, because I need to pay 32 cents in tax on that postage.
So if I charge $2.80, is that "exact shipping"? Or is it a fee? If it count as
exact shipping, what about this -- if I'm sending over $5 worth of stuff to the
US on one visit to the post office, then I don't pay tax. Does that mean that
I am now over-charging customers if I charge them $2.80 on a day that I will
be shipping several such packages, but it's exact shipping on a day that I'm
only sending one?
--
Marc.
|
I should have said, cost of shipping is what I pay the post office. that is how
I did it. I did not add to the post office charge and passed my on-line discount
on to the buyer. The other costs are added into the price of the item.
As for the icon, if a fee is not listed, a seller cannot charge it. There would
be no hidden fees, except into the price of the item which would make it all
above board.
Then the playing field would be level.
John P
|
Except the playing field wouldn't be level because this is just one factor that
is important in the overall pricing discussion.
For those of us that run everything on the up and up and pay taxes, we are at
a disadvantage to those that do not report their income or choose to not pay
any taxes.
Should there be an icon for that? Or maybe everyone gets a 1099 (or Int'l equivalent)
every year from BL to keep the field level?
How about a "we use old food boxes for packing" icon? I mean buyers want to
compare fees...Is $3 for a new envelope better than $1.50 for something wrapped
in old newspaper? I have no idea because that is up to each buyer to decide...just
like the current structure.
It all sounds great, but forcing something on everyone will not work. I like
the option to list everything up front in terms of fees that may or may not be
added to the shipping charge, but I also like the option for sellers to opt out
if they wish.
Scott
|
Scott, BrickLink forces a lot on everybody here, conversion, nothing other than
Lego, , the feedback rules, 3 strikes and you are out, and on and on.
The charges listed would be the only ones that a buyer would have to pay. If
you are using old boxes then you would not list a fee. Little detail is necessary,
handling charges could be all the items you listed. It the seller does not list
that fee, no fee can be charged.
But I must say the whole thing is moot, though that is the wrong, but customary
use of the word moot.
John P
|
So if someone uses *ahem* "low cost packaging materials" like an old dirty box
they would be rewarded with a "no fee" icon, but a seller charging a few cents
for new packaging as part of their shipping fee would be branded with a fee icon?
I can't imagine that would fly.
Scott
|
Simple Scott, do not charge for either.If you can ship in a used box, ok. Not
sure why you would ship in an old dirty box anyways, but that is your call.
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_236272 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 20:53 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| You wrong way.
Bricklink no can send 1099. Bricklink not paying seller money.
1099 only when you pay money. So, store owner give 1099 to painter who paint
store because he give him money. Painter not give store owner 1099.
Paypal send 1099 already. Can not have two 1099 same money. Seller must send
bricklink 1099 for fees paid bricklink. This ok.
In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
|
I think that a formalized way to process additional fees would be great, but
the icons that you describe would be a bad idea. First, because it is drawing
attention to such fees at the wrong time. Those sorts of costs should come up
once a buyer is in a store, and reviewing the Terms, or preparing to place an
order. Right now, Terms are all hand-written by individual sellers. Formalization
of this process would be fantastic.
The second reason that those target icons are a bad idea is that it would encourage
sellers to simply hide their fees, so that they don't have the icon.
| | Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
What does "exact shipping" really mean, though?
Right now, it's possible for a US seller to ship something to me in a bubble
envelope, for maybe $2 or $3. But they have to buy that envelope. You are saying
that if they wanted to charge a 50 cent fee to cover the cost of the packaging,
that they should be labelled as a "fee store" in the price guide and For Sale
listings. That seller could then realize that they don't need a bubble envelope
-- they could ship my order in a Flat Rate Box instead. It costs them nothing,
AND they get to be listed as a "No fee" seller. But then I'm paying $15 for shipping
instead of $3.
Or what about me, shipping an order to the US? The actual face value of the postage
on many such shipments is $2.48. Is that what I should charge? But wait -- that's
not the actual shipping cost, because I need to pay 32 cents in tax on that postage.
So if I charge $2.80, is that "exact shipping"? Or is it a fee? If it count as
exact shipping, what about this -- if I'm sending over $5 worth of stuff to the
US on one visit to the post office, then I don't pay tax. Does that mean that
I am now over-charging customers if I charge them $2.80 on a day that I will
be shipping several such packages, but it's exact shipping on a day that I'm
only sending one?
--
Marc.
|
I should have said, cost of shipping is what I pay the post office. that is how
I did it. I did not add to the post office charge and passed my on-line discount
on to the buyer. The other costs are added into the price of the item.
As for the icon, if a fee is not listed, a seller cannot charge it. There would
be no hidden fees, except into the price of the item which would make it all
above board.
Then the playing field would be level.
John P
|
Except the playing field wouldn't be level because this is just one factor that
is important in the overall pricing discussion.
For those of us that run everything on the up and up and pay taxes, we are at
a disadvantage to those that do not report their income or choose to not pay
any taxes.
Should there be an icon for that? Or maybe everyone gets a 1099 (or Int'l equivalent)
every year from BL to keep the field level?
How about a "we use old food boxes for packing" icon? I mean buyers want to
compare fees...Is $3 for a new envelope better than $1.50 for something wrapped
in old newspaper? I have no idea because that is up to each buyer to decide...just
like the current structure.
It all sounds great, but forcing something on everyone will not work. I like
the option to list everything up front in terms of fees that may or may not be
added to the shipping charge, but I also like the option for sellers to opt out
if they wish.
Scott
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Bug2killer | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 22:07 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, legoman77 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
|
Easy , have a page that lists fee structure, to be filled out by the seller and
added as part of the terms page. There could be that cute little bullet target
and then a line that lists the each individual fee. And a bullet to check if
there are no fees. Then there could be an entry next to the item in the catalog
stating the seller charges fees, see the terms page list of fees, or an entry
that says seller charges no fees other than exact shipping costs.
Then when a buyer is looking at the list of a certain part, the buyer can see
right off the bat that there will be additions to the price of the part.
Admin will never do this, they are still trying to fix the hacking after all
these months. Also it might reduce revenue. Also the stores that have these
fees would not like to see something like this implemented.
Also admin could say that there will be no fees other than exact shipping, sort
of like paypal and credit card companies do in their terms of service. Admin
I managed to do that for the exchange rates, could do it for this if they really
wanted to. Which they do not.
John P
|
--------
Funny... here's the msg I'd been tooling around with while (not) doing work on
other screens since starting quarter end/year end tax prep work:
Suggestions:
I know it would likely be nearly impossible... but...
If you're going to have added fees, make it on the store set-up page.
Have several tick boxes followed by entry section. Example:
If you add 3% for handling, you have
percent (as whole number) or set amount
X 3
If you add $1.50 for handling...
X 1.50
Addl Fees Not Listed:
X 4. i hate losing my lego bits
Conditional Fees
Allow by-pass store minimum (Remember this is set already in BL) fee
X 3.25
Payment by PayPal Fee (% + amount)
X 5.2 .30
Payment by Cash Fee (% + amount)
X -10. 0
((In other words, discount of 10% when you pay in cash))
THEN (drum roll please)...
On search screen, the buyer could have the tick box, "Adjust results by fee"
and "Show added fees" when displaying results.
This way, I won't waste my time having to go through each and every store terms
page trying to find hidden fees (or not so hidden fees), launch 'calculator'
on the computer, multiply all the numbers by the adjustment fee entries, figure
if it's still worth purchasing from the store or not. This could put everyone
on even playing field and speed the buying (and selling) process. Buying: clear-cut
fees; Selling: no manual calculation of fees/accidentally slipping decimal point
and losing money you wanted.
Ok, just an idea. I'm done annoying you for now. Back to preparing for quarter
end/year end taxes and other "Bend over? Thank you sir, may I have another, sir!"
fun. Enjoy - Bob (and crew (currently hiding while I finish my little mini-rant
about taxes))
-----
So while numbers were crunching I'd been typing on that little hummer. Glad to
see I'm not the only one that considered that option. e-b
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 23:49 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, eastsidephoto writes:
| |
So while numbers were crunching I'd been typing on that little hummer.
|
Oh, I have been looking for a little hummer since puberty.
John P
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Daz_Hoo | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 16:29 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, eastsidephoto writes:
| |
Payment by PayPal Fee (% + amount)
X 5.2 .30
|
Many sellers on Bricklink seem to ignore this, but according to the Paypal User
Agreement, you are not supposed to charge any fees to buyers for using Paypal
as a payment method:
4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other
fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in
connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does
not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge
for non-PayPal transactions.
Link: https://cms.paypal.com/ca/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US
So, if Bricklink actually did this, they would in fact encourage the violation
of the Paypal User Agreement by Bricklink sellers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 16:56 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, eastsidephoto writes:
| |
Payment by PayPal Fee (% + amount)
X 5.2 .30
|
Many sellers on Bricklink seem to ignore this, but according to the Paypal User
Agreement, you are not supposed to charge any fees to buyers for using Paypal
as a payment method:
4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other
fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in
connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does
not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge
for non-PayPal transactions.
Link: https://cms.paypal.com/ca/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US
So, if Bricklink actually did this, they would in fact encourage the violation
of the Paypal User Agreement by Bricklink sellers.
|
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Daz_Hoo | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 09:29 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| |
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Someone else also pointed me that it is, by law, illegal in some countries to
charge fees for using a particular payment method.
Nonetheless, my point stands: if Bricklink implemented a system where sellers
could indicate fees for using Paypal, that would sort of encourage North American
sellers (and sellers in countries where it is forbidden by law) to charge fees
for Paypal users when they actually can't do that.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Justinqsmommy | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 09:35 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| |
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Someone else also pointed me that it is, by law, illegal in some countries to
charge fees for using a particular payment method.
Nonetheless, my point stands: if Bricklink implemented a system where sellers
could indicate fees for using Paypal, that would sort of encourage North American
sellers (and sellers in countries where it is forbidden by law) to charge fees
for Paypal users when they actually can't do that.
|
Sorry to disagree. No matter what system Bricklink implemented I wouldn't feel
encouraged to break the agreement I have with Paypal.
Donna
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Daz_Hoo | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 09:46 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Justinqsmommy writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| |
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Someone else also pointed me that it is, by law, illegal in some countries to
charge fees for using a particular payment method.
Nonetheless, my point stands: if Bricklink implemented a system where sellers
could indicate fees for using Paypal, that would sort of encourage North American
sellers (and sellers in countries where it is forbidden by law) to charge fees
for Paypal users when they actually can't do that.
|
Sorry to disagree. No matter what system Bricklink implemented I wouldn't feel
encouraged to break the agreement I have with Paypal.
Donna
|
Maybe you wouldn't. But not everyone reads completely all the user agreements
they agree to.
I can bet that alot of new sellers, just because they didn't completely read
their agreement with Paypal, would just start charging Paypal fees if Bricklink
implemented it in their system.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 09:58 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| People do that now actually, whether or not bricklink puts it in or not.
We've read posts of people complaining (without informing the seller) and reactions
to the seller's return email.
Even people that go right to paypal to complain.
I believe most North Americans, when presented with that screen would just put
0 in there.
In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Justinqsmommy writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| |
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Someone else also pointed me that it is, by law, illegal in some countries to
charge fees for using a particular payment method.
Nonetheless, my point stands: if Bricklink implemented a system where sellers
could indicate fees for using Paypal, that would sort of encourage North American
sellers (and sellers in countries where it is forbidden by law) to charge fees
for Paypal users when they actually can't do that.
|
Sorry to disagree. No matter what system Bricklink implemented I wouldn't feel
encouraged to break the agreement I have with Paypal.
Donna
|
Maybe you wouldn't. But not everyone reads completely all the user agreements
they agree to.
I can bet that alot of new sellers, just because they didn't completely read
their agreement with Paypal, would just start charging Paypal fees if Bricklink
implemented it in their system.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 09:42 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| |
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Someone else also pointed me that it is, by law, illegal in some countries to
charge fees for using a particular payment method.
Nonetheless, my point stands: if Bricklink implemented a system where sellers
could indicate fees for using Paypal, that would sort of encourage North American
sellers (and sellers in countries where it is forbidden by law) to charge fees
for Paypal users when they actually can't do that.
|
I don't think it would encourage North American sellers to do that at all, bricklink
doesn't forbid it, it has to be adhered to based on an independent agreement
with paypal.
Now, I can increase prices by 4% and discount non-paypal transactions, which
is the same thing, but not against paypal's agreement.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rolf | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 13:09 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| |
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Someone else also pointed me that it is, by law, illegal in some countries to
charge fees for using a particular payment method.
Nonetheless, my point stands: if Bricklink implemented a system where sellers
could indicate fees for using Paypal, that would sort of encourage North American
sellers (and sellers in countries where it is forbidden by law) to charge fees
for Paypal users when they actually can't do that.
|
I don't think it would encourage North American sellers to do that at all, bricklink
doesn't forbid it, it has to be adhered to based on an independent agreement
with paypal.
Now, I can increase prices by 4% and discount non-paypal transactions, which
is the same thing, but not against paypal's agreement.
|
While I'm not really happy with that, it does help me avoid mentally calculating
% fee so that is something in least.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rolf writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, randyf writes:
| |
This "No Surcharges" rule only applies to those of us in North America (i.e.
United States and Canada).
Randy
|
I didn't know that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Someone else also pointed me that it is, by law, illegal in some countries to
charge fees for using a particular payment method.
Nonetheless, my point stands: if Bricklink implemented a system where sellers
could indicate fees for using Paypal, that would sort of encourage North American
sellers (and sellers in countries where it is forbidden by law) to charge fees
for Paypal users when they actually can't do that.
|
I don't think it would encourage North American sellers to do that at all, bricklink
doesn't forbid it, it has to be adhered to based on an independent agreement
with paypal.
Now, I can increase prices by 4% and discount non-paypal transactions, which
is the same thing, but not against paypal's agreement.
|
While I'm not really happy with that, it does help me avoid mentally calculating
% fee so that is something in least.
|
Yeah, it's funny, but I get the EU perspective just as well.. If Iban is free
and paypal isn't, why should someone who pays through iban get the same cost
as people that pay through paypal.
if they raise their prices 4%, then they may feel they get a disadvantage in
the price guide, but as long as they are adding 4% on top of the bill (something
BL doesn't get a piece of), to those that use paypal, they are getting an unfair
advantage in the price guide.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 05:12 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| https://cms.paypal.com/fr/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=fr_FR
That wath I agree for paypal, the french rules for individual and I'll translate
the article 4.5 Interdiction de décourager l’utilisation de PayPal.:
In the declaration that you are doing to your client or in your communication
to public, you agree to not denigrate paypal as a payment method. You accept
to only charge fees for paypal us only in accordance with the law applicable
for you. You agree as well that, if you charge any kind of fees to buyer for
use of paypal, you have to inform buyer of the fees application. Paypal has no
responsability in front of the buyer if you didn't inform him about fees.
Then I can charge paypal fees, and BL isn't encouraging any violation in France....
In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, eastsidephoto writes:
| |
Payment by PayPal Fee (% + amount)
X 5.2 .30
|
Many sellers on Bricklink seem to ignore this, but according to the Paypal User
Agreement, you are not supposed to charge any fees to buyers for using Paypal
as a payment method:
4.7 No Surcharges. You agree that you will not impose a surcharge or any other
fee for accepting PayPal as a payment method. You may charge a handling fee in
connection with the sale of goods or services, as long as the handling fee does
not operate as a surcharge and is not higher than the handling fee you charge
for non-PayPal transactions.
Link: https://cms.paypal.com/ca/cgi-bin/?cmd=_render-content&content_ID=ua/UserAgreement_full&locale.x=en_US
So, if Bricklink actually did this, they would in fact encourage the violation
of the Paypal User Agreement by Bricklink sellers.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | MikeS | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 12:02 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
Least favourite, empty cart and go shopping again.
You may send the store a message saying that you've emptied your cart because
of fees, but I'm not sure they will care..
|
I'm not sure how other sellers might respond (... probably by putting them on
their stop list ...), but I'd probably appreciate feedback or messages by non-customers
or "almost customers" - and the reason why they decided to NOT buy from my store.
Maybe if I got enough comments, I might decide to change my policies. The only
way they could do that though would be through the "contact" feature. But if
a customer decided to not buy from you, I doubt they would bother to take the
time to tell you why.
Maybe what would be better is if customers were given the choice to fill out
a pop-up "survey card" of sorts online when they emptied their cart and left
a store. That would allow the customer to easily rate what they did or did not
like about the store. Maybe something like this...
Store Survey
------------
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Store Terms
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Splash page
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Shipping
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Add'l Fees
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Lot Limits
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Min. $ Order
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Inventory
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Communication
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Prices
... Etc.
That would give the store a more specific area or reason why customers did or
did not buy from their store. And like the "Members list me as a favorite store
- Most - Least", and "Sellers Stop List Me" ... the member that filled out the
survey would be anonymous ... AND the member could ONLY fill out ONE survey for
one specific store - being able to only modify or change their ONE survey for
that store. This would prevent disgruntled buyers from "flooding" the store with
negative surveys.
| |
The message there is clear, if you can't spend 2 Euro per lot, it's not worth
my time to pick that order.
[snip]
|
I never really “got” the Lot Limit / Lot Fee thing … Either you WANT to sell
LEGO parts – or you don’t! If the 150 lot order freaks you out – just sell sets!
I do understand how the seller feels when they get a 300 part order with 150
different lots. (I got one like this – and was a little stressed out / frustrated
… until I got the money. ;D) But if I come across a store where I need to have
a “bachelors in mathematics” just to figure out the lots fees, charges, etc.
– I’ll probably just move on to the next store.
I’m sure there are buyers out there that don’t like my $1.00 USD charge (for
materials and delivery confirmation – plus actual postage cost), but I have not
heard from anyone directly saying they did NOT shop in my store because of the
extra $1. I have however received a bunch of orders from buyers paying that
$1 just to be able to buy that ONE $0.05 part they needed that they could not
get in other stores because of minimum order amounts or lot fees. If people
don’t mind the $1 charge – I don’t mind selling them JUST the one part they want.
My only thought about lot limits, lot fees, minimum order amounts, extra charges
– is that customers will vote with their wallet (until there is an easier way
they can voice their opinions).
MikeS
BRICKMART
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 12:28 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| On a collector board that I frequent, it seems the norm is now to ask for Paypal
gifts.
Because of this becoming the norm, when people do get ripped off and there is
no repercussion, I find it hard to feel sorry for them.
Because people are going that way, doesn't mean it's right.
I've told people selling pieces, if you want my money free of fees, then feel
free to ship first.
Only after I get it would I be willing to send the money without some sort of
protection.
Funnily enough, no one has taken me up on that.
I told someone recently who was selling two POTC ships, who insisted they will
only sell to US people and only through money orders.. They were trying to sell
them for 3-4 months (because they got them on clearance, figured it was good
to make a bit of profit). They ended up going down to $170 shipped for both,
I'm not sure how much he made on it..
I would have easily paid his asking price. Again, he wanted a money order, then
ship first.
I had a seller here change my payment option to money order from paypal because
'the deal I was getting was too good to lose 4% on paypal'...
In Suggestions, MikeS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
Least favourite, empty cart and go shopping again.
You may send the store a message saying that you've emptied your cart because
of fees, but I'm not sure they will care..
|
I'm not sure how other sellers might respond (... probably by putting them on
their stop list ...), but I'd probably appreciate feedback or messages by non-customers
or "almost customers" - and the reason why they decided to NOT buy from my store.
Maybe if I got enough comments, I might decide to change my policies. The only
way they could do that though would be through the "contact" feature. But if
a customer decided to not buy from you, I doubt they would bother to take the
time to tell you why.
Maybe what would be better is if customers were given the choice to fill out
a pop-up "survey card" of sorts online when they emptied their cart and left
a store. That would allow the customer to easily rate what they did or did not
like about the store. Maybe something like this...
Store Survey
------------
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Store Terms
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Splash page
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Shipping
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Add'l Fees
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Lot Limits
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Min. $ Order
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Inventory
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Communication
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Prices
... Etc.
That would give the store a more specific area or reason why customers did or
did not buy from their store. And like the "Members list me as a favorite store
- Most - Least", and "Sellers Stop List Me" ... the member that filled out the
survey would be anonymous ... AND the member could ONLY fill out ONE survey for
one specific store - being able to only modify or change their ONE survey for
that store. This would prevent disgruntled buyers from "flooding" the store with
negative surveys.
| |
The message there is clear, if you can't spend 2 Euro per lot, it's not worth
my time to pick that order.
[snip]
|
I never really “got” the Lot Limit / Lot Fee thing … Either you WANT to sell
LEGO parts – or you don’t! If the 150 lot order freaks you out – just sell sets!
I do understand how the seller feels when they get a 300 part order with 150
different lots. (I got one like this – and was a little stressed out / frustrated
… until I got the money. ;D) But if I come across a store where I need to have
a “bachelors in mathematics” just to figure out the lots fees, charges, etc.
– I’ll probably just move on to the next store.
I’m sure there are buyers out there that don’t like my $1.00 USD charge (for
materials and delivery confirmation – plus actual postage cost), but I have not
heard from anyone directly saying they did NOT shop in my store because of the
extra $1. I have however received a bunch of orders from buyers paying that
$1 just to be able to buy that ONE $0.05 part they needed that they could not
get in other stores because of minimum order amounts or lot fees. If people
don’t mind the $1 charge – I don’t mind selling them JUST the one part they want.
My only thought about lot limits, lot fees, minimum order amounts, extra charges
– is that customers will vote with their wallet (until there is an easier way
they can voice their opinions).
MikeS
BRICKMART
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 12:41 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | On a collector board that I frequent, it seems the norm is now to ask for Paypal
gifts.
Because of this becoming the norm, when people do get ripped off and there is
no repercussion, I find it hard to feel sorry for them.
Because people are going that way, doesn't mean it's right.
I've told people selling pieces, if you want my money free of fees, then feel
free to ship first.
|
Then : you want to be protected for free, but you don't want seller (all are
not doing business/making benefit from that) to be protected for free as well....
| | Only after I get it would I be willing to send the money without some sort of
protection.
Funnily enough, no one has taken me up on that.
|
they should have agree.... with shipping in COD, then the security cost would
be included in the shipping cost....and not as extra...
| |
I told someone recently who was selling two POTC ships, who insisted they will
only sell to US people and only through money orders.. They were trying to sell
them for 3-4 months (because they got them on clearance, figured it was good
to make a bit of profit). They ended up going down to $170 shipped for both,
I'm not sure how much he made on it..
I would have easily paid his asking price. Again, he wanted a money order, then
ship first.
I had a seller here change my payment option to money order from paypal because
'the deal I was getting was too good to lose 4% on paypal'...
|
And you never ask seller to give you money for ordering in their store...? (just
kidding)
| |
In Suggestions, MikeS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
Least favourite, empty cart and go shopping again.
You may send the store a message saying that you've emptied your cart because
of fees, but I'm not sure they will care..
|
I'm not sure how other sellers might respond (... probably by putting them on
their stop list ...), but I'd probably appreciate feedback or messages by non-customers
or "almost customers" - and the reason why they decided to NOT buy from my store.
Maybe if I got enough comments, I might decide to change my policies. The only
way they could do that though would be through the "contact" feature. But if
a customer decided to not buy from you, I doubt they would bother to take the
time to tell you why.
Maybe what would be better is if customers were given the choice to fill out
a pop-up "survey card" of sorts online when they emptied their cart and left
a store. That would allow the customer to easily rate what they did or did not
like about the store. Maybe something like this...
Store Survey
------------
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Store Terms
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Splash page
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Shipping
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Add'l Fees
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Lot Limits
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Min. $ Order
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Inventory
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Communication
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Prices
... Etc.
That would give the store a more specific area or reason why customers did or
did not buy from their store. And like the "Members list me as a favorite store
- Most - Least", and "Sellers Stop List Me" ... the member that filled out the
survey would be anonymous ... AND the member could ONLY fill out ONE survey for
one specific store - being able to only modify or change their ONE survey for
that store. This would prevent disgruntled buyers from "flooding" the store with
negative surveys.
| |
The message there is clear, if you can't spend 2 Euro per lot, it's not worth
my time to pick that order.
[snip]
|
I never really “got” the Lot Limit / Lot Fee thing … Either you WANT to sell
LEGO parts – or you don’t! If the 150 lot order freaks you out – just sell sets!
I do understand how the seller feels when they get a 300 part order with 150
different lots. (I got one like this – and was a little stressed out / frustrated
… until I got the money. ;D) But if I come across a store where I need to have
a “bachelors in mathematics” just to figure out the lots fees, charges, etc.
– I’ll probably just move on to the next store.
I’m sure there are buyers out there that don’t like my $1.00 USD charge (for
materials and delivery confirmation – plus actual postage cost), but I have not
heard from anyone directly saying they did NOT shop in my store because of the
extra $1. I have however received a bunch of orders from buyers paying that
$1 just to be able to buy that ONE $0.05 part they needed that they could not
get in other stores because of minimum order amounts or lot fees. If people
don’t mind the $1 charge – I don’t mind selling them JUST the one part they want.
My only thought about lot limits, lot fees, minimum order amounts, extra charges
– is that customers will vote with their wallet (until there is an easier way
they can voice their opinions).
MikeS
BRICKMART
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Miro78 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 12:40 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, MikeS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
Least favourite, empty cart and go shopping again.
You may send the store a message saying that you've emptied your cart because
of fees, but I'm not sure they will care..
|
I'm not sure how other sellers might respond (... probably by putting them on
their stop list ...), but I'd probably appreciate feedback or messages by non-customers
or "almost customers" - and the reason why they decided to NOT buy from my store.
Maybe if I got enough comments, I might decide to change my policies. The only
way they could do that though would be through the "contact" feature. But if
a customer decided to not buy from you, I doubt they would bother to take the
time to tell you why.
Maybe what would be better is if customers were given the choice to fill out
a pop-up "survey card" of sorts online when they emptied their cart and left
a store. That would allow the customer to easily rate what they did or did not
like about the store. Maybe something like this...
Store Survey
------------
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Store Terms
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Splash page
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Shipping
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Add'l Fees
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Lot Limits
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Min. $ Order
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Inventory
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Communication
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Prices
... Etc.
That would give the store a more specific area or reason why customers did or
did not buy from their store. And like the "Members list me as a favorite store
- Most - Least", and "Sellers Stop List Me" ... the member that filled out the
survey would be anonymous ... AND the member could ONLY fill out ONE survey for
one specific store - being able to only modify or change their ONE survey for
that store. This would prevent disgruntled buyers from "flooding" the store with
negative surveys.
|
It's not a bad idea, but I would imagine that people may empty carts for legitimate
reasons as well. Perhaps they are running out of time, reconsidering parts (qty/color/type)
needed and will continue later. Maybe having an option to save your cart and
come back to it later would be nice without actually tying up inventory, of course
the items or quantity may be gone later, but they would not have to start over.
The other thing about the survey is that after the customer spends time shopping
at a store and then finds out that they just wasted time shopping there for whatever
reason (high fees, not enough items for minimum purchase, etc), they probably
won't want to waste anymore time doing a survey that offers them little incentive.
Perhaps a reward for filling out a survey may be needed or it needs to be very
quick and simple, like fill out 3 bubbles and that's it. I know I mostly skip
online store surveys, because there is no incentive for me and I don't have the
time for a lengthy survey that I could get possibly sucked into doing.
How about offering a quick survey for satisfied customers? Some customers buy
things but may not always agree on all of store terms, and may not voice their
opinion. There is always room for improvement.
| | | |
The message there is clear, if you can't spend 2 Euro per lot, it's not worth
my time to pick that order.
[snip]
|
I never really “got” the Lot Limit / Lot Fee thing … Either you WANT to sell
LEGO parts – or you don’t! If the 150 lot order freaks you out – just sell sets!
I do understand how the seller feels when they get a 300 part order with 150
different lots. (I got one like this – and was a little stressed out / frustrated
… until I got the money. ;D) But if I come across a store where I need to have
a “bachelors in mathematics” just to figure out the lots fees, charges, etc.
– I’ll probably just move on to the next store.
|
I don't get that either. If you don't want to sell parts, then don't. I chose
to sell parts a while ago, it takes much more effort to inventory, store, pull
and pack, but I don't mind it. The profit margins are always better on parts
than sets, so that should be good enough of an incentive, in my opinion.
| | I’m sure there are buyers out there that don’t like my $1.00 USD charge (for
materials and delivery confirmation – plus actual postage cost), but I have not
heard from anyone directly saying they did NOT shop in my store because of the
extra $1. I have however received a bunch of orders from buyers paying that
$1 just to be able to buy that ONE $0.05 part they needed that they could not
get in other stores because of minimum order amounts or lot fees. If people
don’t mind the $1 charge – I don’t mind selling them JUST the one part they want.
|
I have a $3 minimum in my store, still on the fence about it, I suppose I could
offer an option of say $0.5-1.00 charge for orders under $3 if that would attract
more buyers, but it shouldn't be that hard to find $3 worth of stuff. It's not
like a $15 minimum.
| |
My only thought about lot limits, lot fees, minimum order amounts, extra charges
– is that customers will vote with their wallet (until there is an easier way
they can voice their opinions).
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | MikeS | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Miro78 writes:
| | In Suggestions, MikeS writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | How does one monitor that though if you are part of the admin team? Just by
people reporting them?
Least favourite, empty cart and go shopping again.
You may send the store a message saying that you've emptied your cart because
of fees, but I'm not sure they will care..
|
I'm not sure how other sellers might respond (... probably by putting them on
their stop list ...), but I'd probably appreciate feedback or messages by non-customers
or "almost customers" - and the reason why they decided to NOT buy from my store.
Maybe if I got enough comments, I might decide to change my policies. The only
way they could do that though would be through the "contact" feature. But if
a customer decided to not buy from you, I doubt they would bother to take the
time to tell you why.
Maybe what would be better is if customers were given the choice to fill out
a pop-up "survey card" of sorts online when they emptied their cart and left
a store. That would allow the customer to easily rate what they did or did not
like about the store. Maybe something like this...
Store Survey
------------
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Store Terms
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Splash page
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Shipping
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Add'l Fees
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Lot Limits
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Min. $ Order
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Inventory
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Communication
Positive[+] .. Neutral[ ] .. Negative[-] = Prices
... Etc.
That would give the store a more specific area or reason why customers did or
did not buy from their store. And like the "Members list me as a favorite store
- Most - Least", and "Sellers Stop List Me" ... the member that filled out the
survey would be anonymous ... AND the member could ONLY fill out ONE survey for
one specific store - being able to only modify or change their ONE survey for
that store. This would prevent disgruntled buyers from "flooding" the store with
negative surveys.
|
It's not a bad idea, but I would imagine that people may empty carts for legitimate
reasons as well. Perhaps they are running out of time, reconsidering parts (qty/color/type)
needed and will continue later. Maybe having an option to save your cart and
come back to it later would be nice without actually tying up inventory, of course
the items or quantity may be gone later, but they would not have to start over.
|
I agree on the "other reasons" why not to buy. I do it all the time - I'll go
to a store and add all the parts from my wanted list - just to see the total
and compare it to other sellers - or make sure I meet their minimum. I usually
"browse" at work during lunch, but pull the trigger on the order later at home.
| |
The other thing about the survey is that after the customer spends time shopping
at a store and then finds out that they just wasted time shopping there for whatever
reason (high fees, not enough items for minimum purchase, etc), they probably
won't want to waste anymore time doing a survey that offers them little incentive.
|
Also agree. I was thinking you could have it issue a coupon automatically (if
the sellers wanted) after doing the survey ... but was thinking, if someone decided
to NOT buy from your store - they probably won't change their mind if they get
a coupon from that same store.
| | Perhaps a reward for filling out a survey may be needed or it needs to be very
quick and simple, like fill out 3 bubbles and that's it. I know I mostly skip
online store surveys, because there is no incentive for me and I don't have the
time for a lengthy survey that I could get possibly sucked into doing.
How about offering a quick survey for satisfied customers? Some customers buy
things but may not always agree on all of store terms, and may not voice their
opinion. There is always room for improvement.
|
Probably what people say the Feedback system is for, but I can see where people
might be more willing to fill out an "anonymous" feedback / survey - without
repercussions / retaliatory feedback. But still think it would be helpful to
hear from customers and non-customers.
| |
| | | |
The message there is clear, if you can't spend 2 Euro per lot, it's not worth
my time to pick that order.
[snip]
|
I never really “got” the Lot Limit / Lot Fee thing … Either you WANT to sell
LEGO parts – or you don’t! If the 150 lot order freaks you out – just sell sets!
I do understand how the seller feels when they get a 300 part order with 150
different lots. (I got one like this – and was a little stressed out / frustrated
… until I got the money. ;D) But if I come across a store where I need to have
a “bachelors in mathematics” just to figure out the lots fees, charges, etc.
– I’ll probably just move on to the next store.
|
I don't get that either. If you don't want to sell parts, then don't. I chose
to sell parts a while ago, it takes much more effort to inventory, store, pull
and pack, but I don't mind it. The profit margins are always better on parts
than sets, so that should be good enough of an incentive, in my opinion.
| | I’m sure there are buyers out there that don’t like my $1.00 USD charge (for
materials and delivery confirmation – plus actual postage cost), but I have not
heard from anyone directly saying they did NOT shop in my store because of the
extra $1. I have however received a bunch of orders from buyers paying that
$1 just to be able to buy that ONE $0.05 part they needed that they could not
get in other stores because of minimum order amounts or lot fees. If people
don’t mind the $1 charge – I don’t mind selling them JUST the one part they want.
|
I have a $3 minimum in my store, still on the fence about it, I suppose I could
offer an option of say $0.5-1.00 charge for orders under $3 if that would attract
more buyers, but it shouldn't be that hard to find $3 worth of stuff. It's not
like a $15 minimum.
|
Yeah, I originally had a $0.50 materials fee - then went up to $1.00 - and maybe
up to $1.50, but dropped back to $1.00. I spent some time looking at several
types and sizes of orders, created a spreadsheet, went over all my costs for
each order, and figure that I would NOT lose money on any type or size of order
with the $1.00.
MikeS
| | | |
My only thought about lot limits, lot fees, minimum order amounts, extra charges
– is that customers will vote with their wallet (until there is an easier way
they can voice their opinions).
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Timothy_Smith | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:18 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 97 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal.
|
We already have a feature for that. When you read store terms that are abnormal
or incomprehensible, simply click on the little "x" at the top right corner.
Easy.
I use this for stores that have terms in ALL CAPITAL LETTERS too.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | McScrooge | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:23 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
|
I would be ashamed to add such a high fee on the order. Whether mentioned or
not in the store terms.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:29 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
|
Why did you shop there and come to complain here?
You could have emptied your cart and least favorited this store.
| | Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed?
|
It's a free market.
You didn't had to shop in that store.
Read the Terms before filling your cart. 
| | I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
|
Apples & oranges.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Legopeter | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:45 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I know I should have read the store terms more carefully. I'm not cancelling
the order, instead I have added two more expensive items in order to get rid
of the fine. I've even bought from this seller a couple of times before without
noticing this fine/fee.
Also, I didn't realise the fee should be so high until I received the invoice.
And I am an honest man, I would never try to cancel for something like this.
But you are missing the point. I don't think it's fair (and should be allowed
to) have fees of this kind. You should be able to shop without reading through
very extensive texts for the fine print which says the order grand total could
be almost doubled by that fee.
I am a seller too and fully realise how painful it is to picking orders with
many lots, but I have never charged to do my job. Put those fees in the price
instead so that it is meaningful to compare prices.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 05:48 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| telling this a different ways, a "no fees" or "no paypal fees" is simply a lie...
that means the fees are hidden in the item's price.
Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
And for quoting a great man, "those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve
Neither."
For the one who don't know who it is from, It's from Benjamin Franklin.
And all this fees question could exactly be about that : wanting more "security
through price guide" than liberty to display the price that one think is relevant
(complete cost or raw cost...).
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | I know I should have read the store terms more carefully. I'm not cancelling
the order, instead I have added two more expensive items in order to get rid
of the fine. I've even bought from this seller a couple of times before without
noticing this fine/fee.
Also, I didn't realise the fee should be so high until I received the invoice.
And I am an honest man, I would never try to cancel for something like this.
But you are missing the point. I don't think it's fair (and should be allowed
to) have fees of this kind. You should be able to shop without reading through
very extensive texts for the fine print which says the order grand total could
be almost doubled by that fee.
I am a seller too and fully realise how painful it is to picking orders with
many lots, but I have never charged to do my job. Put those fees in the price
instead so that it is meaningful to compare prices.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 07:12 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 07:19 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| It means I don't pay for ordering a bank transfert. And in EU, as long at it
go between individuals, it free of fees.
Then if paypal fees are hidden in part price, if I don't use paypal I still will
pay for it.
Am I more clear ? 
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 07:20 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I also don't understand, niemand...
I don't take any fees for PayPal and don't include it in my prices as then my
prices would be higher than they are...
The problem here is the camparision problem, during buying at Ebay you know the
shipping price and also at all other buying portals you know it before...!!
(Also when you buy parts at S&H!!!)
And it should be also possible to know it here before buying as we have the weights
for the most pieces/sets here...
And all handling fees belong directly to the part prices and when one seller
says: "I need the handling fees because the buyer bought 150 lots..:", then I
will answer: "Be happy that you have sold such many lots...!"
Mauro
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 07:37 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | I also don't understand, niemand...
I don't take any fees for PayPal and don't include it in my prices as then my
prices would be higher than they are...
The problem here is the camparision problem, during buying at Ebay you know the
shipping price and also at all other buying portals you know it before...!!
(Also when you buy parts at S&H!!!)
And it should be also possible to know it here before buying as we have the weights
for the most pieces/sets here...
And all handling fees belong directly to the part prices and when one seller
says: "I need the handling fees because the buyer bought 150 lots..:", then I
will answer: "Be happy that you have sold such many lots...!"
Mauro
|
From my experience, many portal are dedicated to one store, or used standard
shipping method. Then it's easy to tell about different cost. But since I tried
to keep the shipping cost as low as possible (I like bricks, not shipping service
), I may use different shipping methods, depending of many factors including
the payment method. The French post cost pdf is 4 pages, and the parcel dedicated
service 2 pore pages.... Then I quit sure BL could manage this for every country.
Then the only way to get the best price before ordering is stil to ask before
ordering.
The same way, when I need some special professional services (plumber, builder...)
, I ask a cost estimate first
And as you referred to other on-line business, many ask to registered as "pro"
or individual. Then the point you underlined about handling, I will completely
agree with you for non-pro. And in another hand, for pro I understand that this
fees are strongly linked to the order specification. Then standards price are
not completely fair...
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 09:00 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Niemand, let it away with: "I tried to keep the shipping cost as low as possible"
Why to do so? State clearly in your store terms the prices for shipping.
When you are able to send something cheaper - refund it, the customer will be
happy.
But me as buyer, I allways want to know the prices BEFORE checking out...
And it is not difficult in my eyes, when the bricks are 300g, then they are around
450g with the parcel and then you can take the money for a 500g shipping.
If it depends on countries then you can also state this, again, exactly as Ebay...
Mauro
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | I also don't understand, niemand...
I don't take any fees for PayPal and don't include it in my prices as then my
prices would be higher than they are...
The problem here is the camparision problem, during buying at Ebay you know the
shipping price and also at all other buying portals you know it before...!!
(Also when you buy parts at S&H!!!)
And it should be also possible to know it here before buying as we have the weights
for the most pieces/sets here...
And all handling fees belong directly to the part prices and when one seller
says: "I need the handling fees because the buyer bought 150 lots..:", then I
will answer: "Be happy that you have sold such many lots...!"
Mauro
|
From my experience, many portal are dedicated to one store, or used standard
shipping method. Then it's easy to tell about different cost. But since I tried
to keep the shipping cost as low as possible (I like bricks, not shipping service
), I may use different shipping methods, depending of many factors including
the payment method. The French post cost pdf is 4 pages, and the parcel dedicated
service 2 pore pages.... Then I quit sure BL could manage this for every country.
Then the only way to get the best price before ordering is stil to ask before
ordering.
The same way, when I need some special professional services (plumber, builder...)
, I ask a cost estimate first
And as you referred to other on-line business, many ask to registered as "pro"
or individual. Then the point you underlined about handling, I will completely
agree with you for non-pro. And in another hand, for pro I understand that this
fees are strongly linked to the order specification. Then standards price are
not completely fair...
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 09:24 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I agree with you and this is my policy too (as buyer and seller).
What I meant more precisely is that "hidden" may mean so many thing. And sometimes,
thing are not hidden; just wasn't read. Even with the most perfect system, if
someone don't read the bill when checking out, he would complain that the grand
total is not the same as his cart was.....
When we checked out, wee agree with this statement :"By submitting this order,
you agree to the Seller's Terms and Conditions and Shipping Policy".
Then, terms not so clear don't means they are hidden. And no system change would
avoid that one don't read everything...
Furthermore would you really shop somewhere it is stated that, for instance,
they will charge you a flat rate for 1kg order (that way for a 100.5g they would
be sure to have a clear shipping cost), even if finally they refund you for what
they over-charged ?
Asking because wanting everything very "clear" could finish with this kind of
simplification...
And again concerning the bay, I already had a seller who include a shipping rate
over-estimated. And complaining to the Bay, I even had to paste and copy their
term of use where it was written that no profit should be made on shipping cost
( I means, stamp) and they've done nothing.
So even them are not so "clear"...
In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | Niemand, let it away with: "I tried to keep the shipping cost as low as possible"
Why to do so? State clearly in your store terms the prices for shipping.
When you are able to send something cheaper - refund it, the customer will be
happy.
But me as buyer, I allways want to know the prices BEFORE checking out...
And it is not difficult in my eyes, when the bricks are 300g, then they are around
450g with the parcel and then you can take the money for a 500g shipping.
If it depends on countries then you can also state this, again, exactly as Ebay...
Mauro
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | I also don't understand, niemand...
I don't take any fees for PayPal and don't include it in my prices as then my
prices would be higher than they are...
The problem here is the camparision problem, during buying at Ebay you know the
shipping price and also at all other buying portals you know it before...!!
(Also when you buy parts at S&H!!!)
And it should be also possible to know it here before buying as we have the weights
for the most pieces/sets here...
And all handling fees belong directly to the part prices and when one seller
says: "I need the handling fees because the buyer bought 150 lots..:", then I
will answer: "Be happy that you have sold such many lots...!"
Mauro
|
From my experience, many portal are dedicated to one store, or used standard
shipping method. Then it's easy to tell about different cost. But since I tried
to keep the shipping cost as low as possible (I like bricks, not shipping service
), I may use different shipping methods, depending of many factors including
the payment method. The French post cost pdf is 4 pages, and the parcel dedicated
service 2 pore pages.... Then I quit sure BL could manage this for every country.
Then the only way to get the best price before ordering is stil to ask before
ordering.
The same way, when I need some special professional services (plumber, builder...)
, I ask a cost estimate first
And as you referred to other on-line business, many ask to registered as "pro"
or individual. Then the point you underlined about handling, I will completely
agree with you for non-pro. And in another hand, for pro I understand that this
fees are strongly linked to the order specification. Then standards price are
not completely fair...
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 10:30 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | I agree with you and this is my policy too (as buyer and seller).
What I meant more precisely is that "hidden" may mean so many thing. And sometimes,
thing are not hidden; just wasn't read. Even with the most perfect system, if
someone don't read the bill when checking out, he would complain that the grand
total is not the same as his cart was.....
When we checked out, wee agree with this statement :"By submitting this order,
you agree to the Seller's Terms and Conditions and Shipping Policy".
Then, terms not so clear don't means they are hidden. And no system change would
avoid that one don't read everything...
Furthermore would you really shop somewhere it is stated that, for instance,
they will charge you a flat rate for 1kg order (that way for a 100.5g they would
be sure to have a clear shipping cost), even if finally they refund you for what
they over-charged ?
Asking because wanting everything very "clear" could finish with this kind of
simplification...
And again concerning the bay, I already had a seller who include a shipping rate
over-estimated. And complaining to the Bay, I even had to paste and copy their
term of use where it was written that no profit should be made on shipping cost
( I means, stamp) and they've done nothing.
So even them are not so "clear"...
In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | Niemand, let it away with: "I tried to keep the shipping cost as low as possible"
Why to do so? State clearly in your store terms the prices for shipping.
When you are able to send something cheaper - refund it, the customer will be
happy.
But me as buyer, I allways want to know the prices BEFORE checking out...
And it is not difficult in my eyes, when the bricks are 300g, then they are around
450g with the parcel and then you can take the money for a 500g shipping.
If it depends on countries then you can also state this, again, exactly as Ebay...
|
|
And is that because eBay is taking 10-12% (whatever their fees are) off of shipping
now too?
| | | | Mauro
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | I also don't understand, niemand...
I don't take any fees for PayPal and don't include it in my prices as then my
prices would be higher than they are...
The problem here is the camparision problem, during buying at Ebay you know the
shipping price and also at all other buying portals you know it before...!!
(Also when you buy parts at S&H!!!)
And it should be also possible to know it here before buying as we have the weights
for the most pieces/sets here...
And all handling fees belong directly to the part prices and when one seller
says: "I need the handling fees because the buyer bought 150 lots..:", then I
will answer: "Be happy that you have sold such many lots...!"
Mauro
|
From my experience, many portal are dedicated to one store, or used standard
shipping method. Then it's easy to tell about different cost. But since I tried
to keep the shipping cost as low as possible (I like bricks, not shipping service
), I may use different shipping methods, depending of many factors including
the payment method. The French post cost pdf is 4 pages, and the parcel dedicated
service 2 pore pages.... Then I quit sure BL could manage this for every country.
Then the only way to get the best price before ordering is stil to ask before
ordering.
The same way, when I need some special professional services (plumber, builder...)
, I ask a cost estimate first
And as you referred to other on-line business, many ask to registered as "pro"
or individual. Then the point you underlined about handling, I will completely
agree with you for non-pro. And in another hand, for pro I understand that this
fees are strongly linked to the order specification. Then standards price are
not completely fair...
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 07:26 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
|
Many sellers use Paypal to print shippinglabels etc.
Services that IBAN payments don't provide.
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 07:40 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | | | Then "hidden" is as well quite depending of one view... As another said, in EU
and as a buyer as well, when I read a "no paypal fees" I think that if I pay
through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service) I don't need/want. Moreover, speaking
about personal freedom, that means as well that someone is promoting paypal instead
of letting chose with financial service He would use. Are we here to promote
this kind of business ?
|
You mention 'I think that if I pay through IBAN, I will pay fees (and a service)
I don't need/want'.
I really don't understand what you mean.
Paying in a € country as France is means IBAN payments are free for both buyer
and seller. So, no fees for both, opposite to Paypal that charges seller +/-
3,5% and a fixed amount of about € 0,35. Also, what service (as I read well)
IBAN payment gives is it you don't need or want? I think all services given by
a payment method or a seller are requiered.
|
Many sellers use Paypal to print shippinglabels etc.
Services that IBAN payments don't provide.
|
Service that the French post provide, and more than free, with price a little
smaller than in the PO...
Another example that asking BL to manage everything is not so simple...
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | j7r7o7c7k7 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:29 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | aftepes | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
Unfortunately, the terms are very clear. To earn a fee of that extreme, you must
have had 65 to 70 lots in that order. You shouldn't be surprised that the seller
then charged you what they said they were going to charge.
While I'm not a fan of fees in general, a buyer can't complain about fees that
are clearly stated in the seller's terms.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Legopeter | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:51 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I KNOW the fee is in his terms. And I am willing to fulfil my part of the deal.
That's not the point. I don't want this (hidden or not) fees to be allowed.
I want to be able to use the price guide to compare prices. I'm aware shipping
is different from/to different parts of the world but that's one factor you might
never get rid of. Put everything you want to get out of your work picking orders
into the price of the items you are selling instead!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 14:57 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | I KNOW the fee is in his terms. And I am willing to fulfil my part of the deal.
That's not the point. I don't want this (hidden or not) fees to be allowed.
I want to be able to use the price guide to compare prices. I'm aware shipping
is different from/to different parts of the world but that's one factor you might
never get rid of. Put everything you want to get out of your work picking orders
into the price of the items you are selling instead!
|
Just do not buy from the seller.
Or do buy, and then leave less than positive feedback, based on your experience.
We do not always need rules to influence the behavior of sellers, we can use
the free market concept of just considering this when we choose where we shop.
I have a few stores on my least favorite list due to such charges. Then they
do not even come up when I am searching for stuff.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | aftepes | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:08 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | I KNOW the fee is in his terms. And I am willing to fulfil my part of the deal.
That's not the point. I don't want this (hidden or not) fees to be allowed.
I want to be able to use the price guide to compare prices. I'm aware shipping
is different from/to different parts of the world but that's one factor you might
never get rid of. Put everything you want to get out of your work picking orders
into the price of the items you are selling instead!
|
You cannot use the price guide to compare prices. If a part is available in your
country for $5 and it's in another country for $1, you need to get shipping costs
to determine the total cost of the part. It could be, that the lowest total cost
for the part is the $5 order from your own country.
Then what about minimum orders? To place an order in the $1 store, it may require
a $10 minimum order. Now your $1 is $10 plus shipping, if there was nothing else
in the store you needed.
Fees for orders are also part of the process. You need to read the terms and
accept them. Not reading them or not understanding them, is not a cause for complaint,
nor is it a valid reason to file non-positive feedback. The only time that is
warranted is if the fees were not disclosed prior to submitting the order.
I said it before and I'll say it again, I don't like fees. But sometimes it's
the nature of the beast.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:16 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | I KNOW the fee is in his terms. And I am willing to fulfil my part of the deal.
That's not the point. I don't want this (hidden or not) fees to be allowed.
I want to be able to use the price guide to compare prices. I'm aware shipping
is different from/to different parts of the world but that's one factor you might
never get rid of. Put everything you want to get out of your work picking orders
into the price of the items you are selling instead!
|
You'll get very little argument from most forum users. So many people's main
concern is protecting the integrity of the price guide.
Send a note to admin asking him if they've ever considered this as these types
of suggestions are simply not being acted upon
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:03 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
This seems to be a weekly discussion here and if the fees are in the terms then
it seems that these sellers are within their rights to charge these fees...as
unfair or wrong as they may be.
That said, the easiest way to stop this practice is to stop buying from these
stores. If buyers read terms and did not buy from stores with these polices,
then the practice would go away. (or at least they would be encouraged to change
the policies)
Like Brett, I cannot see a situation where this could be managed without a huge
investment of time and manpower on the part of BL...even if the fees were outlawed.
I would rather that they spend their time developing additional features for
the site and on the 2.0 upgrade rather than being the fee & terms police.
Scott
|
|
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:20 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
is he the Fee Nazi?
(in a play on the soup nazi from Seinfeld not actual National Socialist Party
Members)
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | bb86155 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:29 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I understand that it's not efficient to sellers to fill orders with high amount
of lots with few parts.
Best way to deal this would be that the buyer isn't allowed to buy at all, not
adding extra fees. I think that if these kind of lot limit are in place, seller
should make the minimun buy quantity so high that it meets the terms, so we wouldn't
have this problem at all. It would be easy to do. Extra fees are just fishy no
matter what everybody says or if it's not against the rules. In the end, sellers
are just after the money. And in this case after a lot of money.
In the end I think these sellers do harm to themselves in the long run anyway.
Wouln't it easier for them to sell just sets if you don't want to pick up the
parts? Why offer parts with low prices if you really don't want to sell just
one part?
Mikko
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:31 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| On the opposite side of this is
"I only need 2 parts, if I have to pay $4 extra dollars to get those 2 parts
and have them shipped to me rather than spend an extra $16 in parts that I don't
want and have extra shipping costs, I should be able to do that"
In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | I understand that it's not efficient to sellers to fill orders with high amount
of lots with few parts.
Best way to deal this would be that the buyer isn't allowed to buy at all, not
adding extra fees. I think that if these kind of lot limit are in place, seller
should make the minimun buy quantity so high that it meets the terms, so we wouldn't
have this problem at all. It would be easy to do. Extra fees are just fishy no
matter what everybody says or if it's not against the rules. In the end, sellers
are just after the money. And in this case after a lot of money.
In the end I think these sellers do harm to themselves in the long run anyway.
Wouln't it easier for them to sell just sets if you don't want to pick up the
parts? Why offer parts with low prices if you really don't want to sell just
one part?
Mikko
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb86155 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:38 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| So, in that case you're seeking a service from a shop that doesn't exist? Why
look there at all?
I don't buy medicine from a hardware shop.
Mikko
In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | On the opposite side of this is
"I only need 2 parts, if I have to pay $4 extra dollars to get those 2 parts
and have them shipped to me rather than spend an extra $16 in parts that I don't
want and have extra shipping costs, I should be able to do that"
In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | I understand that it's not efficient to sellers to fill orders with high amount
of lots with few parts.
Best way to deal this would be that the buyer isn't allowed to buy at all, not
adding extra fees. I think that if these kind of lot limit are in place, seller
should make the minimun buy quantity so high that it meets the terms, so we wouldn't
have this problem at all. It would be easy to do. Extra fees are just fishy no
matter what everybody says or if it's not against the rules. In the end, sellers
are just after the money. And in this case after a lot of money.
In the end I think these sellers do harm to themselves in the long run anyway.
Wouln't it easier for them to sell just sets if you don't want to pick up the
parts? Why offer parts with low prices if you really don't want to sell just
one part?
Mikko
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brettj666 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:43 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Everyone here sells Lego, if you are thinking of banning stores that add extra
fees, that's wrong as long as there are buyers who can accept the extra fees.
Personally, I just least favourite stores like that, lot fees and bricklink fees.
Most of the time I won't shop at a store where they try to recover the paypal
fees either, as North Americans have to incorporate this cost already.
However, we don't say that they should be banned, they are following the rules
of all partners. (in EU, they are allowed to charge for paypal) and for them,
they can justify it.. "why should people who pay by iban pay a premium for parts
that are priced for paypal buyers"
In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | So, in that case you're seeking a service from a shop that doesn't exist? Why
look there at all?
I don't buy medicine from a hardware shop.
Mikko
In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | On the opposite side of this is
"I only need 2 parts, if I have to pay $4 extra dollars to get those 2 parts
and have them shipped to me rather than spend an extra $16 in parts that I don't
want and have extra shipping costs, I should be able to do that"
In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | I understand that it's not efficient to sellers to fill orders with high amount
of lots with few parts.
Best way to deal this would be that the buyer isn't allowed to buy at all, not
adding extra fees. I think that if these kind of lot limit are in place, seller
should make the minimun buy quantity so high that it meets the terms, so we wouldn't
have this problem at all. It would be easy to do. Extra fees are just fishy no
matter what everybody says or if it's not against the rules. In the end, sellers
are just after the money. And in this case after a lot of money.
In the end I think these sellers do harm to themselves in the long run anyway.
Wouln't it easier for them to sell just sets if you don't want to pick up the
parts? Why offer parts with low prices if you really don't want to sell just
one part?
Mikko
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb86155 | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 16:04 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I don't want to ban those stores. Everybody for their own style. It just seems
that these stores want the occasional free money so to speak.
If there is already a system you could use to suit your store (minimun lot quantity),
why these stores don't use that option? That's is dishonest in my opinion.
I have no personal issues about this but I can see that it might effect new buyers
for example. There's not that many stores with lot limit fees anyway. Therefore
there's no need to enforce anything. That usually just complicates things.
I only question sellers motives for these fees.
Mikko
In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | Everyone here sells Lego, if you are thinking of banning stores that add extra
fees, that's wrong as long as there are buyers who can accept the extra fees.
Personally, I just least favourite stores like that, lot fees and bricklink fees.
Most of the time I won't shop at a store where they try to recover the paypal
fees either, as North Americans have to incorporate this cost already.
However, we don't say that they should be banned, they are following the rules
of all partners. (in EU, they are allowed to charge for paypal) and for them,
they can justify it.. "why should people who pay by iban pay a premium for parts
that are priced for paypal buyers"
In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | So, in that case you're seeking a service from a shop that doesn't exist? Why
look there at all?
I don't buy medicine from a hardware shop.
Mikko
In Suggestions, Brettj666 writes:
| | On the opposite side of this is
"I only need 2 parts, if I have to pay $4 extra dollars to get those 2 parts
and have them shipped to me rather than spend an extra $16 in parts that I don't
want and have extra shipping costs, I should be able to do that"
In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | I understand that it's not efficient to sellers to fill orders with high amount
of lots with few parts.
Best way to deal this would be that the buyer isn't allowed to buy at all, not
adding extra fees. I think that if these kind of lot limit are in place, seller
should make the minimun buy quantity so high that it meets the terms, so we wouldn't
have this problem at all. It would be easy to do. Extra fees are just fishy no
matter what everybody says or if it's not against the rules. In the end, sellers
are just after the money. And in this case after a lot of money.
In the end I think these sellers do harm to themselves in the long run anyway.
Wouln't it easier for them to sell just sets if you don't want to pick up the
parts? Why offer parts with low prices if you really don't want to sell just
one part?
Mikko
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 20:06 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | I don't want to ban those stores. Everybody for their own style. It just seems
that these stores want the occasional free money so to speak.
If there is already a system you could use to suit your store (minimun lot quantity),
why these stores don't use that option? That's is dishonest in my opinion.
|
Minimum lot quantities are more restrictive than lot fees, though.
I don't have lot fees myself, nor do I like them. But I understand them.
Lot fees are calculated over an entire order, not individual lots. So your solution
of having minimum lot quantities means that buyers who want one $0.01 part and
one $4.00 part could not order that way (they would need to by 20 of the 1 cent
part). They CAN order that way in a store with lot fees, and not pay the fee.
Also ... BrickLink doesn't actually support minimum lot quantities. It has bulk
purchase amounts. So, if a buyer wanted 21 of an item, they'd be forced to actually
buy 40 of them under the system that you describe, even though they have met
the "minimum quantity".
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | renhoffman | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 20:23 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Also ... BrickLink doesn't actually support minimum lot quantities. It has bulk
purchase amounts. So, if a buyer wanted 21 of an item, they'd be forced to actually
buy 40 of them under the system that you describe, even though they have met
the "minimum quantity".
|
So true, Bricklink NEEDS this. The only way I have found to solve this is to
list different lots. One lot with a min. qty of (x1), and a lot with a min. qty
of (x20). The (x1) lot has to be listed at a higher price, or someone will just
come along and buy them first. Also, this adds multible lots to my store, messing
up wanted lists.
Darren
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 20:31 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, renhoffman writes:
| | | | Also ... BrickLink doesn't actually support minimum lot quantities. It has bulk
purchase amounts. So, if a buyer wanted 21 of an item, they'd be forced to actually
buy 40 of them under the system that you describe, even though they have met
the "minimum quantity".
|
So true, Bricklink NEEDS this. The only way I have found to solve this is to
list different lots. One lot with a min. qty of (x1), and a lot with a min. qty
of (x20). The (x1) lot has to be listed at a higher price, or someone will just
come along and buy them first. Also, this adds multible lots to my store, messing
up wanted lists.
Darren
|
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=475633
--
Marc.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | renhoffman | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 22:44 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, renhoffman writes:
| | | | Also ... BrickLink doesn't actually support minimum lot quantities. It has bulk
purchase amounts. So, if a buyer wanted 21 of an item, they'd be forced to actually
buy 40 of them under the system that you describe, even though they have met
the "minimum quantity".
|
So true, Bricklink NEEDS this. The only way I have found to solve this is to
list different lots. One lot with a min. qty of (x1), and a lot with a min. qty
of (x20). The (x1) lot has to be listed at a higher price, or someone will just
come along and buy them first. Also, this adds multible lots to my store, messing
up wanted lists.
Darren
|
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=475633
--
Marc.
|
I clicked "yes", and got this...
"Oops! There was a problem processing your request:
1. This suggestion is already on your list of favorite suggestions."
Darren
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb86155 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 10:41 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | I don't want to ban those stores. Everybody for their own style. It just seems
that these stores want the occasional free money so to speak.
If there is already a system you could use to suit your store (minimun lot quantity),
why these stores don't use that option? That's is dishonest in my opinion.
|
Minimum lot quantities are more restrictive than lot fees, though.
I don't have lot fees myself, nor do I like them. But I understand them.
Lot fees are calculated over an entire order, not individual lots. So your solution
of having minimum lot quantities means that buyers who want one $0.01 part and
one $4.00 part could not order that way (they would need to by 20 of the 1 cent
part). They CAN order that way in a store with lot fees, and not pay the fee.
Also ... BrickLink doesn't actually support minimum lot quantities. It has bulk
purchase amounts. So, if a buyer wanted 21 of an item, they'd be forced to actually
buy 40 of them under the system that you describe, even though they have met
the "minimum quantity".
--
Marc.
|
Seller makes their own restrictions. The system has none. So what's the problem
here? Seller who doesn't want the sell cheap parts and make the effort and offer
the normal service for free? They want the money but won't do the effort for
free They could easily avoid this problem themselves and offer a service they
could give or want to give. Simple as that.
Yeah, you're right about the bulk quantity but the seller could use it nevertheless
to make minimum quantity as they like. Maybe it could be altered in a way that
you could buy more than one bulk lot as you mentioned in your example?
But again, if you want 21 parts and can only buy 40, then what's the problem
here? You can go buy it elsewhere.
It's like politics. Someone has found a way to bend the rules by not breaking
them and now we're debating what to do. Everything gets more complex for nothing.
There's not really a problem in the system, it's in people.
Mikko
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 10:55 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Mikkole writes:
| | It's like politics. Someone has found a way to bend the rules by not breaking
them and now we're debating what to do. Everything gets more complex for nothing.
There's not really a problem in the system, it's in people.
Mikko
|
+1....
And usually, more the system become complex, more problem occurs and harder it
became to deal with.....
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 15:45 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| As such fees will never be disallowed by Admin (as it is supposedly too complicated
to enforce), the solution is simple:
- don't buy at stores with any kind of fees (= go to those that only charge exact
shipping)
- put these 'fee-charging' stores at your least favorite list
If more and more buyers will do so, we'll see a quick end to any fees (hopefully).
Richard
In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 16:29 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 98 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
Yep, this getting silly. A while back I predicted that these fees, if left unchecked,
would take over from "funny money" exchange rates which were defrauding Admin
of about 25% of sales fees. Now, as you say, it is easy to order from some stores
and pay half the bill "off Bricklink" resulting in those stores only paying 1.5%
fees instead of 3%, showing cheap in the price guide and and hitting customers
with huge unexpected charges. This is now beyond a few stores using it to "restrict"
large lot orders, it is a way of fee avoidance and price guide cheating to the
extent, in some cases, of it being a bigger problem than the funny money game.
I also see the same pattern as with funny money, new stores doing it saying "well
I looked at some big selling stores and they do it so I copied". If we want the
price guide to stay meaningfull it is IMO time for Admin to act to stop this
before we (no, not all of us of course) all start selling parts at 1 cent plus
10 cents fees (no "rule" to stop that now is there?).
Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | DagsBricks | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 16:45 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 17:38 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, DagsBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | If we want the
price guide to stay meaningfull it is IMO time for Admin to act to stop this
before we (no, not all of us of course) all start selling parts at 1 cent plus
10 cents fees (no "rule" to stop that now is there?).
Robert
|
Why don't they just charge BL fees off of final invoice, akin to e***?
Brian
|
ebay = market for any stuff, no price guide. BL = market specific to Lego, PG
makes it so. I could list everything "cheapest on BL" , add funny charges and
under such a fee policy Admin gets the same fees but the PG then becomes completely
obsolete. Why then have BL specific to Lego, it would just become another marketplace
with no USP for Lego. That is why Admin(Dan) had to act against the "funny money
people"
Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Justinqsmommy | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 16:46 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
First let me say "That's just crazy".
This issue comes up enough that something needs to be done. Wether the fees aren't
read, are hidden on the splash page, not on the terms pages or so complicated
and hard to understand that after reading them you're still scratching your head
a simple template would solve these type of issues.
I like that each store on Bricklink can and is run by separate individuals, however,
when you get ready to submit your order everything that's part of the contract
(ie: everything you are required to pay) should be on that one page. I'm not
talking about an exact total as I realize the logistics that make that impossible,
but a list of the different items.
I have ordered from stores that have things on their splash page like .50 added
for supplies, but there is no mention of that on there Terms page and therefore
not at the bottom of the submit order page. That doesn't make it part of the
contract in my eyes.
If every store had to fill out a preset template that showed on the Terms page
and was pulled through to the bottom of the order page, the buyer would see all
the information together before they clicked 'submit'. Even if they didn't read
the terms.
Something like this:
In addition to the LEGO items you have select there will be these additional
charges:
Shipping: Actual USPS Rates
Handling Fee: $0.00
Supplies Fee: $0.00
Lot Fees: .25 per lot if lot average isn't $1.00 or more)
PayPal Fees: $0.00
Ice Cream Fee:$2.00 per order if placed on Tuesday
Waiting In Line Fee:$0.00
Custom Forms Fee: $0.00
Other: NONE
(etc...)
(each could be a set amount or a written description)
If you are not in agreement with paying these charges then Do Not Submit This
Order.
If every store was the same in this respect then Buyers would see it spelled
out in front of them before they bought. Sellers wouldn't be able to add anything
that wasn't listed here, because they would be held accountable on the invoice.
Just a thought...
Donna
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Daz_Hoo | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 17:09 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Justinqsmommy writes:
| | I like that each store on Bricklink can and is run by separate individuals, however,
when you get ready to submit your order everything that's part of the contract
(ie: everything you are required to pay) should be on that one page. I'm not
talking about an exact total as I realize the logistics that make that impossible,
but a list of the different items.
I have ordered from stores that have things on their splash page like .50 added
for supplies, but there is no mention of that on there Terms page and therefore
not at the bottom of the submit order page. That doesn't make it part of the
contract in my eyes.
Donna
|
I'm sorry, but isn't that a clear case of "Buyer beware"?
Personally, I always check both the Splash page AND the Terms page of a store
I intend to buy from BEFORE ordering just to know what I'm getting into. If I
don't agree with something, I simply move on.
Don't get me wrong: I think that, if you charge extra fees, the buyer should
be able to figure them out very quickly and those fees should be explained very
clearly in both your Splash page and in your store terms (I know mine are on
both counts).
And if you don't agree with the fees or the terms of a store, move on! Not buying
from them is the best and only proven way you are going to affect changes from
sellers who charge too much extra fees.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | DagsBricks | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 17:19 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 20:00 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Justinqsmommy writes:
| | I like that each store on Bricklink can and is run by separate individuals, however,
when you get ready to submit your order everything that's part of the contract
(ie: everything you are required to pay) should be on that one page. I'm not
talking about an exact total as I realize the logistics that make that impossible,
but a list of the different items.
I have ordered from stores that have things on their splash page like .50 added
for supplies, but there is no mention of that on there Terms page and therefore
not at the bottom of the submit order page. That doesn't make it part of the
contract in my eyes.
Donna
|
I'm sorry, but isn't that a clear case of "Buyer beware"?
Personally, I always check both the Splash page AND the Terms page of a store
I intend to buy from BEFORE ordering just to know what I'm getting into. If I
don't agree with something, I simply move on.
|
In order to be considered a valid part of the purchase agreement, the additional
fees need to be in the Terms. Fees which are listed only on the Splash page are
grounds for order cancellation, as per BrickLink's terms.
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rolf | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 21:06 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, Daz_Hoo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Justinqsmommy writes:
| | I like that each store on Bricklink can and is run by separate individuals, however,
when you get ready to submit your order everything that's part of the contract
(ie: everything you are required to pay) should be on that one page. I'm not
talking about an exact total as I realize the logistics that make that impossible,
but a list of the different items.
I have ordered from stores that have things on their splash page like .50 added
for supplies, but there is no mention of that on there Terms page and therefore
not at the bottom of the submit order page. That doesn't make it part of the
contract in my eyes.
Donna
|
I'm sorry, but isn't that a clear case of "Buyer beware"?
Personally, I always check both the Splash page AND the Terms page of a store
I intend to buy from BEFORE ordering just to know what I'm getting into. If I
don't agree with something, I simply move on.
|
In order to be considered a valid part of the purchase agreement, the additional
fees need to be in the Terms. Fees which are listed only on the Splash page are
grounds for order cancellation, as per BrickLink's terms.
--
Marc.
|
Yeah I once found one store literally has "See splash for terms". 
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | opii | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 17:04 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
|
I would be very happy to see BrickLink move to a very simple invoice involving
the below.
1. Cost for items purchased
2. Shipping
3. Handling (material costs for packaging)
That's it; nothing else. Any fees or other costs should all be worked into the
pricing in a sellers items. Ideally all of this should be seen on the final
checkout page prior to submitting your order.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | BrickBuy | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 17:18 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I would be very happy to see BrickLink move to a very simple invoice involving
the below.
1. Cost for items purchased
2. Shipping
3. Handling (material costs for packaging)
That's it; nothing else. Any fees or other costs should all be worked into the
pricing in a sellers items. Ideally all of this should be seen on the final
checkout page prior to submitting your order.
|
That is quite shortsided. It is simply not possible to work everything into the
cost of the item. Picking and packing a 1x1 plate with a value of $0.01 will
take at least a few seconds, of not many 10's of seconds. Even at minimum wage,
that is a cost that is many times more the price of the item. Per this reasoning,
all pieces would have to cost a minimum of about $0.20 or so, if not even more.
That would defeat the whole purpose of getting simple parts cheap. The potential
low item cost of a lot makes the bricklink business unlike every other model.
You can't buy 2 peas at the supermarket, and 2 slices of bread, and half-a-cup
of milk. Many stores that change lot fees have always advocated that they'd want
this to be incorporated into bricklink, so each store could upfront be very clear
and open about fees per lot if they do not meet certain requirements. These fees
are perfectly fine, and perfectly understandable, but it is also clear that they
must be very clearly written into the terms. Complaining after the fact is moot.
Either accept the terms as is, or shop elsewhere, but it is not feasible to force
sellers to work for less than minimum wage by forcing a non-economically-sensible
restriction onto their terms.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | opii | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 18:51 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickBuy writes:
| | | | I would be very happy to see BrickLink move to a very simple invoice involving
the below.
1. Cost for items purchased
2. Shipping
3. Handling (material costs for packaging)
That's it; nothing else. Any fees or other costs should all be worked into the
pricing in a sellers items. Ideally all of this should be seen on the final
checkout page prior to submitting your order.
|
That is quite shortsided. It is simply not possible to work everything into the
cost of the item. Picking and packing a 1x1 plate with a value of $0.01 will
take at least a few seconds, of not many 10's of seconds. Even at minimum wage,
that is a cost that is many times more the price of the item. Per this reasoning,
all pieces would have to cost a minimum of about $0.20 or so, if not even more.
That would defeat the whole purpose of getting simple parts cheap. The potential
low item cost of a lot makes the bricklink business unlike every other model.
You can't buy 2 peas at the supermarket, and 2 slices of bread, and half-a-cup
of milk. Many stores that change lot fees have always advocated that they'd want
this to be incorporated into bricklink, so each store could upfront be very clear
and open about fees per lot if they do not meet certain requirements. These fees
are perfectly fine, and perfectly understandable, but it is also clear that they
must be very clearly written into the terms. Complaining after the fact is moot.
Either accept the terms as is, or shop elsewhere, but it is not feasible to force
sellers to work for less than minimum wage by forcing a non-economically-sensible
restriction onto their terms.
|
To be fair; after reading your store terms. If I were to purchase a single 1x1
plate at .01$ from your store it would cost me .26$ due to the lot fee. With
your math making the part .20$ in the beginning to reflect it's true cost is
actually better for your customers as it's real cost is up front (and cheaper).
But of course each instance is different and purchasing 200 vs 1 is very different;
that's where appropriate (typically an average) pricing comes into play and not
pricing based on single part orders.
On the flip side, both of my orders with you were great and never had a single
issue; your terms are pretty clear and easy (for me) to calculate out.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 19:57 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Mr.Rofl writes:
Clear, absolutely. Avoiding fees, no. The fees are simply hidden in the fixed
shipping cost.
Not that that's a bad thing.
--
Marc.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb314137 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 02:30 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, Mr.Rofl writes:
Clear, absolutely. Avoiding fees, no. The fees are simply hidden in the fixed
shipping cost.
Not that that's a bad thing.
--
Marc.
|
So, Marc, would you avoid shopping in my store?
Should I really offer actual actual cost?
-G
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 07:10 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, LegoProds writes:
| | In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| | In Suggestions, Mr.Rofl writes:
Clear, absolutely. Avoiding fees, no. The fees are simply hidden in the fixed
shipping cost.
Not that that's a bad thing.
--
Marc.
|
So, Marc, would you avoid shopping in my store?
Should I really offer actual actual cost?
-G
|
I didn't say that you (or anyone else) should. I simply disagreed with the other
message that the store in question didn't have additional fees.
Interestingly, I am considering placing an order in that other store -- I have
items in a cart there, but not quite enough for the shipping to be worth it.
I am not arguing in favor of actual cost.
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | bricksalabim | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 04:33 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Mr.Rofl writes:
I often thought of doing the same in order to make shipping terms clearer and
handling easier.
But:
99% of my buyers would pay more (even much more) for shipping than they pay now.
- I have many German buyers who just pay 0.70 shipping now.
- Most international buyers (worldwide) pay 3.45 now
- and some international buyers only have to pay 1.70 (Europe) or 2.20 (worldwide),
whenever I can ship their order from Luxembourg
Should I really change and take a flat fee?
Renate
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rolf | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 04:38 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, bricksalabim writes:
| | In Suggestions, Mr.Rofl writes:
I often thought of doing the same in order to make shipping terms clearer and
handling easier.
But:
99% of my buyers would pay more (even much more) for shipping than they pay now.
- I have many German buyers who just pay 0.70 shipping now.
- Most international buyers (worldwide) pay 3.45 now
- and some international buyers only have to pay 1.70 (Europe) or 2.20 (worldwide),
whenever I can ship their order from Luxembourg
Should I really change and take a flat fee?
Renate
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Not sure what you mean as your shipping terms and costs is very clear.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bricksalabim | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 04:51 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Rolf writes:
| | In Suggestions, bricksalabim writes:
| | In Suggestions, Mr.Rofl writes:
I often thought of doing the same in order to make shipping terms clearer and
handling easier.
But:
99% of my buyers would pay more (even much more) for shipping than they pay now.
- I have many German buyers who just pay 0.70 shipping now.
- Most international buyers (worldwide) pay 3.45 now
- and some international buyers only have to pay 1.70 (Europe) or 2.20 (worldwide),
whenever I can ship their order from Luxembourg
Should I really change and take a flat fee?
Renate
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Not sure what you mean as your shipping terms and costs is very clear.
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Thank you. But I started to doubt if they're clear. Often enough, buyers choose
their shipping method on check out, and then I have to explain to them that shipping
could be cheaper with another shipping method of my list.
If I had a flat fee (button solution) like Germany:x€, worldwide:y€ that would
be much clearer/easier.
Renate
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| | | | | Author: | LEtgomyeGO | | Posted: | Dec 17, 2012 22:20 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| For me, one of the best features of Bricklink is that there are a multitude of
approaches. Yes, it can frustrating (especially for new buyers) but having a
lot of different options can be helpful - and save one money in the long run.
For example, if I just want a few small parts, I will pay more per part to avoid
fees. But if I'm making a larger order, the shipping or handling fees (as long
as they're low) can make the over all cost lower.
I like the idea of a standardized form to make it clearer, but am not in favor
of eliminating fees altogether.
David
LEtgomyeGO
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| | | | | Author: | bb314137 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 02:32 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
| | Hey,
We really need to do something about all the hidden fees and fines on BrickLink.
And by "hidden" I also mean fees that are mentioned in store terms but are, to
the common sense at least, abnormal. I for one am very bad at reading store terms
but have managed to buy from over 600 different sellers without being really
upset over fees until today.
I shopped with a big German seller with the following rule:
Lot Maximum:
Your order should have an average lot value of at least €2.00. You derive the
number by dividing your order total by the number of positions you have. (100
black 1 x 1 bricks are merely one lot).
Otherwise you still place the order for free!
If not, a small fee of €0.59 per surplus lot is added. Example 1: an order with
an order total of €20 and 10 lots does not include ANY FEE. Example 2: an order
with an order total of 20€ and 20 lots effects an additional fee of €5.90. Thank
you very much for your appreciation.
I ended up with a lot maximum fee of EUR 28.59 for an order of EUR 37.08. That's
78% surcharge, almost as much as the order itself. How do you feel about this?
Do we really want this to be allowed? I think we should go the same way as we
did a couple of years ago when we abolished fake exchange courses, remember them?
They were very popular amongst European, especially German, sellers. Who wants
them back?
Peter
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Reminds me to UPS and their **** brokerage fees. Offer low prices and then stack
high brokerage fees.
-G
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| | | | | Author: | bb288093 | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2012 21:31 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | I have seen store terms like that and I just close the tab in the browser. |
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| | | | | Author: | dagealka | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 10:10 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Hi Peter, hi all,
I did not follow the whole thread, since I am currently short of time. I actually
have 'invented' this fee, however see the problem with it. Hence, I have posted
a suggestion almost a year ago, with the following conclusion
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=611434
Cheers
Daniel
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| | | | | Author: | Graham. | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 11:14 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I am totally with you Peter, terms in many stores are ambiguous (especialy when
the store owner is not from an English speaking country)
I have raised this more times than should be nescessary!
What is needed is a standard, but it ain't ever going to happen - there are way
to many big sellers with artificially low item prices that have not only CRAZY
lot limits like you have found, but + up to 7% paypal "fee" + 4% Bricklink fee
+ customs form fees - it goes on and on!
That seller is practicing nothing short of extortion.
In fact I got so fed up with all the extra's, that unless the parts are obsolete
and/or not available from my very short list of favorite sellers, I go direct
to source.
I have introduced a really simple fee schedule (parts + post at a few price bands
- some orders I make, some I loose) no lot limits and a discount for Bank Transfer
(no paypal fees - savings passed on to buyer)
Transparent and It has worked /is working well.
Maybe 1 out of 20 orders are low value/large # of lots - certainly NOT enough
to justify charging extra!
and Many repeat buyers, who realize that I am actually cheaper in the long run
- even tho my prices are perhaps a little higher than some.
Suggestions go no where, which is why I presented a suggestion to monitor the
progress of suggestions thru the system!
regards Graham
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| | | | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 15:46 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Yep the solution is VERY easy: don't buy at stores with fees.
If everyone does so, my prognosis is that fees will VERY soon be history.
At the very least we'll then have an honest price guide.
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I am totally with you Peter, terms in many stores are ambiguous (especialy when
the store owner is not from an English speaking country)
I have raised this more times than should be nescessary!
What is needed is a standard, but it ain't ever going to happen - there are way
to many big sellers with artificially low item prices that have not only CRAZY
lot limits like you have found, but + up to 7% paypal "fee" + 4% Bricklink fee
+ customs form fees - it goes on and on!
That seller is practicing nothing short of extortion.
In fact I got so fed up with all the extra's, that unless the parts are obsolete
and/or not available from my very short list of favorite sellers, I go direct
to source.
I have introduced a really simple fee schedule (parts + post at a few price bands
- some orders I make, some I loose) no lot limits and a discount for Bank Transfer
(no paypal fees - savings passed on to buyer)
Transparent and It has worked /is working well.
Maybe 1 out of 20 orders are low value/large # of lots - certainly NOT enough
to justify charging extra!
and Many repeat buyers, who realize that I am actually cheaper in the long run
- even tho my prices are perhaps a little higher than some.
Suggestions go no where, which is why I presented a suggestion to monitor the
progress of suggestions thru the system!
regards Graham
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rolf | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2012 18:23 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | Yep the solution is VERY easy: don't buy at stores with fees.
If everyone does so, my prognosis is that fees will VERY soon be history.
At the very least we'll then have an honest price guide.
Richard
|
Yeah I have very heavy bias against percentage or per lot based fees. Once a
while I have to order from those store as there is large savings even with those,
AND large order at once. It'd have to be pretty HUGE savings. I did only once
(or twice?) so far.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Graham. | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 03:27 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | Yep the solution is VERY easy: don't buy at stores with fees.
If everyone does so, my prognosis is that fees will VERY soon be history.
At the very least we'll then have an honest price guide.
Richard
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That's why my "favorite's" list is so small 
Any ambiguity i walk away - well type away I suppose
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| | | | | | | Author: | me00rjb | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 07:15 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I have introduced a really simple fee schedule (parts + post at a few price bands
- some orders I make, some I loose) no lot limits and a discount for Bank Transfer
(no paypal fees - savings passed on to buyer)
|
Just to offer a slightly different perspective, and just to pick one example:-
whilst it is nice that you have no fees; you don't offer exact rate postage,
therefore you are in effect charging extra on some orders. I appreciate that
you may loose on others, however I would be put off buying from you with this
policy. I prefer to see exact postage, plus a packing fee if necessary.
I also prefer to shop at UK stores where prices and terms are in £ not $ - that
way it is easy for me to check if postage is being offered at the correct rates.
So whilst fees are one issue that affect where I place my orders, there are many
others.
The problem is, there isn't a 'one size fits all' solution.
Richard.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 11:20 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, me00rjb writes:
| | In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
The problem is, there isn't a 'one size fits all' solution.
Richard.
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Very good resume...
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| | | | | Author: | Graham. | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 05:54 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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| | | | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:26 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:27 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| But at my shop!!! No handling fees, no PayPal fees!!!
Mauro
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WhiteVanMan | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:32 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | But at my shop!!! No handling fees, no PayPal fees!!!
Mauro
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But not enough stock to warrant me buying from you.... 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:40 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I'm a set seller not a part seller...
Mauro
P.S. But I was a part seller in the past and had also the same terms at my shop...
In Suggestions, WhiteVanMan writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | But at my shop!!! No handling fees, no PayPal fees!!!
Mauro
|
But not enough stock to warrant me buying from you....
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:46 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:54 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Again, that is not right what you say.
No one is happy about the fees from PayPal and nobody is satisfied to get only
the 96% of the money. But sometimes this is the cheapest method for international
orders (USA to Europe or vice verca).
Beside this PayPal has the advantage that the seller gets the money immediately
so the fees are ok in my eyes... This is a service where the seller pays for
which a bank cannot fullfill...
When you pay via IBAN I get 100% but I'm waiting for the money several days.
In these days I could make further profit with this money...
Nevertheless I'm also against all fees...
Mauro
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 11:17 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, 1977_mauro writes:
| | Again, that is not right what you say.
No one is happy about the fees from PayPal and nobody is satisfied to get only
the 96% of the money. But sometimes this is the cheapest method for international
orders (USA to Europe or vice verca).
|
Agree with that. Just why not letting the buyer choose what is more interesting
for him...?
| |
Beside this PayPal has the advantage that the seller gets the money immediately
so the fees are ok in my eyes... This is a service where the seller pays for
which a bank cannot fullfill...
|
From my point of view (because right and wrong are genrally base on own experience...)
it's wrong (or start to get wrong).
Don't know exactly for how long it is, but I get IBAN in less than 2 days now
(it was about a week 1 years ago for international transfert).
And my paypal account can get the money in 1 hour, before this reach my account
and I can really use it as I wish, it take 2 day too (and usually more, since
I wait for the shipment to be done before ordering this transfer, in case I had
to refund some of the shipping cost if I manage to get it cheaper)
| | When you pay via IBAN I get 100% but I'm waiting for the money several days.
In these days I could make further profit with this money...
|
Then that's depending how you use the different financial services... So it's
a personal matter, and not an absolute rule.
| | Nevertheless I'm also against all fees...
|
I'm more for freedom of choice (and of thinking) than for uniformity...
Then as long as some fees/charges seems fair to me, I don't mind about it.
And I don't like the idea that someone try to sold me something I don't need.
Then hidden fees (like paypal's in my personal point of view) is not better than
stipulated one in "clear" terms.
Like better let the buyer choose what his fair for him....
Tshcuss
| |
Mauro
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 07:28 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I am not sure what you mean by 'hiding' something?
If something isn't clear in my splash page and/or store terms I'd gladly like
to know, so I can adjust it.
Anyone in my store can order without ANY fee, but if one insist on a particular
payment method (bank transfer from outside the eurone, paypal within the EU),
the costs will be transferred to the buyer, yes, hoping that they will chose
for the free method. I always point buyers to the free payment option.
I agree that 'no minimum orders' would be nice as well, but at least they are
not a 'fee' and moreover they are transpartently conveyed to buyers (should the
price list contain a column with min buy?)
Richard
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 07:48 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | I am not sure what you mean by 'hiding' something?
|
I waz just kidding.... to underline that nothing it not so easy. When checking
out a buyer should opt-in the "I have read the terms...." and your term says
the buyer should go to the spash..... then someone could as well say it's not
clear. Just a thought
| | If something isn't clear in my splash page and/or store terms I'd gladly like
to know, so I can adjust it.
Anyone in my store can order without ANY fee, but if one insist on a particular
payment method (bank transfer from outside the eurone, paypal within the EU),
the costs will be transferred to the buyer, yes, hoping that they will chose
for the free method. I always point buyers to the free payment option.
|
there is no "free method" at the end... financial service are not charity business.
And at the end, it's always, in a way or another, the buyer who pay the financial
service.
My point is more about : "if I buy from you with IBAN, I will have paid my bank
in a way or another, and at the same time the paypal fees, since you integrated
them in your cost. Is it more fair than letting this financial cost to the choice
of the buyer from the very beginning ?
Should the price guide be a "items + paypal cost" guide or an "item price" only
?
| | I agree that 'no minimum orders' would be nice as well, but at least they are
not a 'fee' and moreover they are transpartently conveyed to buyers (should the
price list contain a column with min buy?)
|
In fact if you go through the wanted list, you get this information as well...
Then it can be considered when choosing a store.
Once again, like many I don't spend time in a store when I can't clearly understand
their terms like lot fees. But I don't mind paying a handling fees if I feel
it's fair; which is completely a subjective rate in my "will to pay".
Even if real life shopping is not so simple if one try to look for the deal that
fit him best.
Then wanting it to be quite different here don't seems realistic for me.
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 08:49 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| You're right, but I refer to my splash page because otherwise the terms become
so much to read, and they're basically the same anyway just a bit more 'expanded'
in the splash page.
IBAN/BIC within the eurozone is completely free of charge AFAIK.
When someone outside the EU pays with paypal I eat the costs.
As I said, everyone in the world can buy without ANY fee from me, and against
EXACT shipping. I charge NOTHING for 1) shipping materials, 2) searching the
parts (for any number of lots), 3) driving to the post office, 4) etc etc (long
list of potential fee-inducing activities)
That's the best I can do.
If at some point the Admin gods decide to erradicate the minimum buy for everyone
I would be fine with that as well.
Cheers, Richard
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | I am not sure what you mean by 'hiding' something?
|
I waz just kidding.... to underline that nothing it not so easy. When checking
out a buyer should opt-in the "I have read the terms...." and your term says
the buyer should go to the spash..... then someone could as well say it's not
clear. Just a thought
| | If something isn't clear in my splash page and/or store terms I'd gladly like
to know, so I can adjust it.
Anyone in my store can order without ANY fee, but if one insist on a particular
payment method (bank transfer from outside the eurone, paypal within the EU),
the costs will be transferred to the buyer, yes, hoping that they will chose
for the free method. I always point buyers to the free payment option.
|
there is no "free method" at the end... financial service are not charity business.
And at the end, it's always, in a way or another, the buyer who pay the financial
service.
My point is more about : "if I buy from you with IBAN, I will have paid my bank
in a way or another, and at the same time the paypal fees, since you integrated
them in your cost. Is it more fair than letting this financial cost to the choice
of the buyer from the very beginning ?
Should the price guide be a "items + paypal cost" guide or an "item price" only
?
| | I agree that 'no minimum orders' would be nice as well, but at least they are
not a 'fee' and moreover they are transpartently conveyed to buyers (should the
price list contain a column with min buy?)
|
In fact if you go through the wanted list, you get this information as well...
Then it can be considered when choosing a store.
Once again, like many I don't spend time in a store when I can't clearly understand
their terms like lot fees. But I don't mind paying a handling fees if I feel
it's fair; which is completely a subjective rate in my "will to pay".
Even if real life shopping is not so simple if one try to look for the deal that
fit him best.
Then wanting it to be quite different here don't seems realistic for me.
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 09:27 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | You're right, but I refer to my splash page because otherwise the terms become
so much to read, and they're basically the same anyway just a bit more 'expanded'
in the splash page.
IBAN/BIC within the eurozone is completely free of charge AFAIK.
|
AFAIK ( ) bank can't charge % depending of the amount, but can sold the service
of ordering. For instance, I consider IBAN as free, since the package I pay for
my bank service includes no limit of IBAN order. Some other bank/package include
just 3 order per month free. And some bank charge a flat rate for each order.
| |
When someone outside the EU pays with paypal I eat the costs.
As I said, everyone in the world can buy without ANY fee from me, and against
EXACT shipping. I charge NOTHING for 1) shipping materials, 2) searching the
parts (for any number of lots), 3) driving to the post office, 4) etc etc (long
list of potential fee-inducing activities)
|
I respect the way you established your terms, since they are clear for me. I'm
in this thread because I don't like the idea that other would tell me what I
have to do, depending on their own critera ..
And I don't believe BL could prohibited charging some fees (or promote to include
them in the price guide), simply because of what I try to explain about the paypal
fees Vs Iban : that would make them promote one financial services. Then here
the risk would be to be prosecuted by banks lobby's because of unfair practice.
| | That's the best I can do.
If at some point the Admin gods decide to erradicate the minimum buy for everyone
I would be fine with that as well.
Cheers, Richard
|
Best regards,
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | I am not sure what you mean by 'hiding' something?
|
I waz just kidding.... to underline that nothing it not so easy. When checking
out a buyer should opt-in the "I have read the terms...." and your term says
the buyer should go to the spash..... then someone could as well say it's not
clear. Just a thought
| | If something isn't clear in my splash page and/or store terms I'd gladly like
to know, so I can adjust it.
Anyone in my store can order without ANY fee, but if one insist on a particular
payment method (bank transfer from outside the eurone, paypal within the EU),
the costs will be transferred to the buyer, yes, hoping that they will chose
for the free method. I always point buyers to the free payment option.
|
there is no "free method" at the end... financial service are not charity business.
And at the end, it's always, in a way or another, the buyer who pay the financial
service.
My point is more about : "if I buy from you with IBAN, I will have paid my bank
in a way or another, and at the same time the paypal fees, since you integrated
them in your cost. Is it more fair than letting this financial cost to the choice
of the buyer from the very beginning ?
Should the price guide be a "items + paypal cost" guide or an "item price" only
?
| | I agree that 'no minimum orders' would be nice as well, but at least they are
not a 'fee' and moreover they are transpartently conveyed to buyers (should the
price list contain a column with min buy?)
|
In fact if you go through the wanted list, you get this information as well...
Then it can be considered when choosing a store.
Once again, like many I don't spend time in a store when I can't clearly understand
their terms like lot fees. But I don't mind paying a handling fees if I feel
it's fair; which is completely a subjective rate in my "will to pay".
Even if real life shopping is not so simple if one try to look for the deal that
fit him best.
Then wanting it to be quite different here don't seems realistic for me.
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | paulvdb | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 09:34 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | You're right, but I refer to my splash page because otherwise the terms become
so much to read, and they're basically the same anyway just a bit more 'expanded'
in the splash page.
IBAN/BIC within the eurozone is completely free of charge AFAIK.
|
AFAIK ( ) bank can't charge % depending of the amount, but can sold the service
of ordering. For instance, I consider IBAN as free, since the package I pay for
my bank service includes no limit of IBAN order. Some other bank/package include
just 3 order per month free. And some bank charge a flat rate for each order.
|
According to European law they cannot charge more for IBAN transfer in euro than
for bank transfer in your own country. So if a transfer in euro to a bank acoount
in your own country is free then IBAN transfer in euro to a country in the SEPA
must also be free.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 09:57 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, paulvdb writes:
| | In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | You're right, but I refer to my splash page because otherwise the terms become
so much to read, and they're basically the same anyway just a bit more 'expanded'
in the splash page.
IBAN/BIC within the eurozone is completely free of charge AFAIK.
|
AFAIK ( ) bank can't charge % depending of the amount, but can sold the service
of ordering. For instance, I consider IBAN as free, since the package I pay for
my bank service includes no limit of IBAN order. Some other bank/package include
just 3 order per month free. And some bank charge a flat rate for each order.
|
According to European law they cannot charge more for IBAN transfer in euro than
for bank transfer in your own country. So if a transfer in euro to a bank acoount
in your own country is free then IBAN transfer in euro to a country in the SEPA
must also be free.
|
Agree, that's why some bank charge a flat rate for any bank-transfer... (not
sure, but I think I have eared than bank transfer would exist anymore in many
bank here, only IBAN since there is no real mor differences...)
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 10:10 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, paulvdb writes:
|
| | | | According to European law they cannot charge more for IBAN transfer in euro than
for bank transfer in your own country. So if a transfer in euro to a bank acoount
in your own country is free then IBAN transfer in euro to a country in the SEPA
must also be free.
|
|
This only applies to transfers in EUR that don't have to be converted. Denmark
(having the Danish crown as currency) participates to this agreement as well,
still they (the local banks in Denmark) do charge for the currency conversion
from EUR to DKK - after they credit the EUR amount without any charge. (Swedish
banks do it better, there it's really free). It's a painful things for sellers
(unless they pass this charge to the buyers), the amount ranges from DKK 15 ($2.60)
to DKK 50 ($8.90) as per my experience.
| | Agree, that's why some bank charge a flat rate for any bank-transfer... (not
sure, but I think I have eared than bank transfer would exist anymore in many
bank here, only IBAN since there is no real mor differences...)
|
it's the SEPA standard (formerly known as IBAN payment): Single European Payment
Area.
The domestic transfers will be obsolete rather soon, many banks already start
to use the same or at least similar forms, and after the full implemenation you
will send domestic bank transfers with IBAN and BIC code as well, just like payments
abroad.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Legovogel | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 10:24 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Thanks for your comments!!
I think we agree on virtually everything.
I respect that other stores charge fees (it's a free bussiness), but I do hope
that the free market that BL is will eventually erradicates the practise of charging
all kinds of fees sooner rather than later... so as to have a fair price list
at the least
Cherio!
Richard
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | You're right, but I refer to my splash page because otherwise the terms become
so much to read, and they're basically the same anyway just a bit more 'expanded'
in the splash page.
IBAN/BIC within the eurozone is completely free of charge AFAIK.
|
AFAIK ( ) bank can't charge % depending of the amount, but can sold the service
of ordering. For instance, I consider IBAN as free, since the package I pay for
my bank service includes no limit of IBAN order. Some other bank/package include
just 3 order per month free. And some bank charge a flat rate for each order.
| |
When someone outside the EU pays with paypal I eat the costs.
As I said, everyone in the world can buy without ANY fee from me, and against
EXACT shipping. I charge NOTHING for 1) shipping materials, 2) searching the
parts (for any number of lots), 3) driving to the post office, 4) etc etc (long
list of potential fee-inducing activities)
|
I respect the way you established your terms, since they are clear for me. I'm
in this thread because I don't like the idea that other would tell me what I
have to do, depending on their own critera ..
And I don't believe BL could prohibited charging some fees (or promote to include
them in the price guide), simply because of what I try to explain about the paypal
fees Vs Iban : that would make them promote one financial services. Then here
the risk would be to be prosecuted by banks lobby's because of unfair practice.
| | That's the best I can do.
If at some point the Admin gods decide to erradicate the minimum buy for everyone
I would be fine with that as well.
Cheers, Richard
|
Best regards,
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | I am not sure what you mean by 'hiding' something?
|
I waz just kidding.... to underline that nothing it not so easy. When checking
out a buyer should opt-in the "I have read the terms...." and your term says
the buyer should go to the spash..... then someone could as well say it's not
clear. Just a thought
| | If something isn't clear in my splash page and/or store terms I'd gladly like
to know, so I can adjust it.
Anyone in my store can order without ANY fee, but if one insist on a particular
payment method (bank transfer from outside the eurone, paypal within the EU),
the costs will be transferred to the buyer, yes, hoping that they will chose
for the free method. I always point buyers to the free payment option.
|
there is no "free method" at the end... financial service are not charity business.
And at the end, it's always, in a way or another, the buyer who pay the financial
service.
My point is more about : "if I buy from you with IBAN, I will have paid my bank
in a way or another, and at the same time the paypal fees, since you integrated
them in your cost. Is it more fair than letting this financial cost to the choice
of the buyer from the very beginning ?
Should the price guide be a "items + paypal cost" guide or an "item price" only
?
| | I agree that 'no minimum orders' would be nice as well, but at least they are
not a 'fee' and moreover they are transpartently conveyed to buyers (should the
price list contain a column with min buy?)
|
In fact if you go through the wanted list, you get this information as well...
Then it can be considered when choosing a store.
Once again, like many I don't spend time in a store when I can't clearly understand
their terms like lot fees. But I don't mind paying a handling fees if I feel
it's fair; which is completely a subjective rate in my "will to pay".
Even if real life shopping is not so simple if one try to look for the deal that
fit him best.
Then wanting it to be quite different here don't seems realistic for me.
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 10:51 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | Thanks for your comments!!
|
My pleasure..
| | I think we agree on virtually everything.
|
except the "fair" definition... (yes, life isn't fair ....)
| |
I respect that other stores charge fees (it's a free bussiness), but I do hope
that the free market that BL is will eventually erradicates the practise of charging
all kinds of fees sooner rather than later...
|
Darwinian's/market's selection may act, without having to ask admin to get in
complicated stuff for the same results.
best regards
Axel
| | so as to have a fair price list at the least
Cherio!
Richard
|
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | You're right, but I refer to my splash page because otherwise the terms become
so much to read, and they're basically the same anyway just a bit more 'expanded'
in the splash page.
IBAN/BIC within the eurozone is completely free of charge AFAIK.
|
AFAIK ( ) bank can't charge % depending of the amount, but can sold the service
of ordering. For instance, I consider IBAN as free, since the package I pay for
my bank service includes no limit of IBAN order. Some other bank/package include
just 3 order per month free. And some bank charge a flat rate for each order.
| |
When someone outside the EU pays with paypal I eat the costs.
As I said, everyone in the world can buy without ANY fee from me, and against
EXACT shipping. I charge NOTHING for 1) shipping materials, 2) searching the
parts (for any number of lots), 3) driving to the post office, 4) etc etc (long
list of potential fee-inducing activities)
|
I respect the way you established your terms, since they are clear for me. I'm
in this thread because I don't like the idea that other would tell me what I
have to do, depending on their own critera ..
And I don't believe BL could prohibited charging some fees (or promote to include
them in the price guide), simply because of what I try to explain about the paypal
fees Vs Iban : that would make them promote one financial services. Then here
the risk would be to be prosecuted by banks lobby's because of unfair practice.
| | That's the best I can do.
If at some point the Admin gods decide to erradicate the minimum buy for everyone
I would be fine with that as well.
Cheers, Richard
|
Best regards,
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | I am not sure what you mean by 'hiding' something?
|
I waz just kidding.... to underline that nothing it not so easy. When checking
out a buyer should opt-in the "I have read the terms...." and your term says
the buyer should go to the spash..... then someone could as well say it's not
clear. Just a thought
| | If something isn't clear in my splash page and/or store terms I'd gladly like
to know, so I can adjust it.
Anyone in my store can order without ANY fee, but if one insist on a particular
payment method (bank transfer from outside the eurone, paypal within the EU),
the costs will be transferred to the buyer, yes, hoping that they will chose
for the free method. I always point buyers to the free payment option.
|
there is no "free method" at the end... financial service are not charity business.
And at the end, it's always, in a way or another, the buyer who pay the financial
service.
My point is more about : "if I buy from you with IBAN, I will have paid my bank
in a way or another, and at the same time the paypal fees, since you integrated
them in your cost. Is it more fair than letting this financial cost to the choice
of the buyer from the very beginning ?
Should the price guide be a "items + paypal cost" guide or an "item price" only
?
| | I agree that 'no minimum orders' would be nice as well, but at least they are
not a 'fee' and moreover they are transpartently conveyed to buyers (should the
price list contain a column with min buy?)
|
In fact if you go through the wanted list, you get this information as well...
Then it can be considered when choosing a store.
Once again, like many I don't spend time in a store when I can't clearly understand
their terms like lot fees. But I don't mind paying a handling fees if I feel
it's fair; which is completely a subjective rate in my "will to pay".
Even if real life shopping is not so simple if one try to look for the deal that
fit him best.
Then wanting it to be quite different here don't seems realistic for me.
Axel
| |
In Suggestions, niemand writes:
| | Getting further, in a perfect world, no minimum order as well...
And as an example, If I buy from you and pay with paypal, you get about 96% of
the money I send. If I pay with IBAN, you get 100% of the money. Then I can considered
as paying with I ban is giving you more than what the order is worth (since you(re
ok as well with 96% of the grand total...).
Furthermore, you indicate that buyer should read the your full terms...... on
your splash page.... isn't that in accordance with BL terms? Are you hidding
something there that you don't want buyers to know about ? (I didn't checked,
just underlying that you use some freedom, then way other couldn't had some freedom
as well ?)
In Suggestions, Marisuda writes:
| | INDEED..!!
Sellers are so preoccupied with the gains they're getting from these 'nice' fees
that they don't see how much they're losing from people walking away.
Time to have buyers united in a 'no-fee' movement: let's all walk away from stores
that charge fees!!
Richard
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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| | | | | | | Author: | WhiteVanMan | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:30 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
I do and could go on - apologies - graham
|
Hi Graham....
You are quite right to be able to show where and who you wish to do so, but as
a part-time seller myself, I agree with you when it comes to the 'lot fees'..
I've recently received an order, consisting of 3,000+ parts in 50+ lots, and
I am happy to take that kind of order as it DOES clear-out elements that are
taking up space and I can now re-stock the drawers that those elements were in,
making it a win-win situation for me.
I do sympathize with those sellers that get clobbered with high 'lot' orders,
as I have organized my store like the BL catalogue, (new one one side of the
room and used on the other), it DOES take time to pull a drawer, search for the
element that you need, and that could be for only 1 of those parts, and so multiply
that by 100-200, and you can see the time mounting up...
I had one order like that once, and it took me nearly 5 hours to do, and I couldn't
do anything else that night as I was just shattered from the constant checking/searching
and bending over to get the drawers..
I can see why those 'lot-fees' get implemented, but they shouldn't be that HIGH...
Just do as I do, walk away from those stores that have that kind of thing going
on, and buy sets where you can take the elements you need from and sell the rest...
Regards,
Paul
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Hypertrophy | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 08:16 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Here is what it comes down to for me personally...
Fees should not be a deceptive way by a seller to ensnare a buyer within the
"legally binding contract". They should also not be so complicated whereas they
create confusion. These type of store fees are bad for ALL sellers because they
may eliminate new buyers across the site based on costs exceeding expectation.
I charge a $1 flat fee on all my orders. I do not have a minimum buy. I package
all my lots individually, bubble wrap when necessary, etc...etc...
During the time this thread has been running I had a German buyer who did not
see / expect the $1 fee and was legitimately confused. I refunded the $1 fee
without hesitation. At the time, the fee was listed down in shipping terms.
I've now moved it to the top of the page so it's basically impossible not to
see.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | MikeS | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 08:52 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hi Robb.
I do the same thing ... actual cost of postage + a flat $1.00 charge for materials
and delivery confirmation. And also do NOT have any minimum order or additional
fees. (I am not a big fan of stores that have a high min. order amount or a
bunch of fees where you have to have a Bachelor in Mathematics to try and figure
out how much your order will cost.) I set up my store like the ones I would
want to shop at.
I have the notice of my $1.00 charge near the top of my splash page, in the shipping
section of my splash page, and in the store terms (under shipping), so I don't
think it will be missed.
So besides your one German buyer, have you had any other comments about your
$1.00 fee?
MikeS
BRICKMART
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=MikeS
My Store counter: 29273
In Suggestions, Hypertrophy writes:
| | Here is what it comes down to for me personally...
Fees should not be a deceptive way by a seller to ensnare a buyer within the
"legally binding contract". They should also not be so complicated whereas they
create confusion. These type of store fees are bad for ALL sellers because they
may eliminate new buyers across the site based on costs exceeding expectation.
I charge a $1 flat fee on all my orders. I do not have a minimum buy. I package
all my lots individually, bubble wrap when necessary, etc...etc...
During the time this thread has been running I had a German buyer who did not
see / expect the $1 fee and was legitimately confused. I refunded the $1 fee
without hesitation. At the time, the fee was listed down in shipping terms.
I've now moved it to the top of the page so it's basically impossible not to
see.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hypertrophy | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 09:30 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hey Mike, no I haven't really had any other comments. It does slightly concern
me from time to time with buyers that are new to the site. I currently have
an order in that's $1.33 for 12 plant leaves that totals to $3.97 once shipped.
I can only assume that the buyer (0 feedback when order placed) is comfortable
paying that as my terms are there. I will probably throw in a few plant stems
also to better his experience. That's how I want to operate to keep people happy
and return to my store. If he questioned the fee, I would probably waive it
with a friendly explanation that he should read store terms on future purchases
as I would assume he did not know as he's new to the site. As a small seller
I have the time now to handle invidual situations as I deem best.
I think the seller's that complicate fees to a ridiculous degree lose orders
in the long run. That said, a buyer who has experience here can only blame themselves
if they get whammied for not reading store terms.
For me, the $1 is just a simplified way to cover packaging costs and separate
that from inventory costs. It is what works currently for me as a seller. If
a buyer doesn't want purchase because of that, it's ok, this is my structure.
In Suggestions, MikeS writes:
| | Hi Robb.
I do the same thing ... actual cost of postage + a flat $1.00 charge for materials
and delivery confirmation. And also do NOT have any minimum order or additional
fees. (I am not a big fan of stores that have a high min. order amount or a
bunch of fees where you have to have a Bachelor in Mathematics to try and figure
out how much your order will cost.) I set up my store like the ones I would
want to shop at.
I have the notice of my $1.00 charge near the top of my splash page, in the shipping
section of my splash page, and in the store terms (under shipping), so I don't
think it will be missed.
So besides your one German buyer, have you had any other comments about your
$1.00 fee?
MikeS
BRICKMART
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=MikeS
My Store counter: 29273
In Suggestions, Hypertrophy writes:
| | Here is what it comes down to for me personally...
Fees should not be a deceptive way by a seller to ensnare a buyer within the
"legally binding contract". They should also not be so complicated whereas they
create confusion. These type of store fees are bad for ALL sellers because they
may eliminate new buyers across the site based on costs exceeding expectation.
I charge a $1 flat fee on all my orders. I do not have a minimum buy. I package
all my lots individually, bubble wrap when necessary, etc...etc...
During the time this thread has been running I had a German buyer who did not
see / expect the $1 fee and was legitimately confused. I refunded the $1 fee
without hesitation. At the time, the fee was listed down in shipping terms.
I've now moved it to the top of the page so it's basically impossible not to
see.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 10:36 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| hey Robb
In Suggestions, Hypertrophy writes:
| | Hey Mike, no I haven't really had any other comments. It does slightly concern
me from time to time with buyers that are new to the site. I currently have
an order in that's $1.33 for 12 plant leaves that totals to $3.97 once shipped.
I can only assume that the buyer (0 feedback when order placed) is comfortable
paying that as my terms are there.
|
Personal experience, the first order here was a mess....because I didn't carefully
read terms (like a lot of people are doing often ). Then I learned. That's
part of learning curve that everybody follow when getting invovlved in new stuff
(tool, job, games...... life in fact).
Then, would it be a common interest for Afol's (even business) to have plenty
of people acting childishly here... and not learning from mistakes ? Then not
so good experience is as well a filter to know with whom were are engaging in
trade. (personal believe)
| | I will probably throw in a few plant stems
also to better his experience.
|
Nice move...even if one will argue that this way you are betraying the price
guide, since the price per piece will in fact decrease for the buyer.... (always
possible to interpret thing differently)
| | That's how I want to operate to keep people happy
and return to my store. If he questioned the fee, I would probably waive it
with a friendly explanation that he should read store terms on future purchases
as I would assume he did not know as he's new to the site. As a small seller
I have the time now to handle invidual situations as I deem best.
I think the seller's that complicate fees to a ridiculous degree lose orders
in the long run. That said, a buyer who has experience here can only blame themselves
if they get whammied for not reading store terms.
|
I once had an argue with a seller about his term..... not because of any fees,
but the quality of items. As complaining he answer me I had to read his terms.
But I had read it. And when he rate something as 7/10, we seems to have not the
same criteria for what should be 1 and what should scored 10.
Then even with experience, it's possible to get caught, and more easily with
other things that charge fees and shipping....
| | For me, the $1 is just a simplified way to cover packaging costs and separate
that from inventory costs. It is what works currently for me as a seller. If
a buyer doesn't want purchase because of that, it's ok, this is my structure.
|
A trend here that can support your structure : French are less and less buying
"all inclusive" holiday trip. Because of the crisis, it seems they are looking
more carefully after what they pay for, what they really needs, and who is rewards
for his services/work.
Then they are wanting to give less to people selling a services they can do themselves
(the travel agency in this case), even if they pay more to the hotel, or tourist
guide, drivers.... And finally finding they are sparing money at the end (less
intermediate to wage and less total VAT).
That's another example that make me feel it could be wrong to try to prevent
you to run business as you do, because of one's interpretation about what the
price guide should tell...
| | In Suggestions, MikeS writes:
| | Hi Robb.
I do the same thing ... actual cost of postage + a flat $1.00 charge for materials
and delivery confirmation. And also do NOT have any minimum order or additional
fees. (I am not a big fan of stores that have a high min. order amount or a
bunch of fees where you have to have a Bachelor in Mathematics to try and figure
out how much your order will cost.) I set up my store like the ones I would
want to shop at.
I have the notice of my $1.00 charge near the top of my splash page, in the shipping
section of my splash page, and in the store terms (under shipping), so I don't
think it will be missed.
So besides your one German buyer, have you had any other comments about your
$1.00 fee?
MikeS
BRICKMART
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=MikeS
My Store counter: 29273
In Suggestions, Hypertrophy writes:
| | Here is what it comes down to for me personally...
Fees should not be a deceptive way by a seller to ensnare a buyer within the
"legally binding contract". They should also not be so complicated whereas they
create confusion. These type of store fees are bad for ALL sellers because they
may eliminate new buyers across the site based on costs exceeding expectation.
I charge a $1 flat fee on all my orders. I do not have a minimum buy. I package
all my lots individually, bubble wrap when necessary, etc...etc...
During the time this thread has been running I had a German buyer who did not
see / expect the $1 fee and was legitimately confused. I refunded the $1 fee
without hesitation. At the time, the fee was listed down in shipping terms.
I've now moved it to the top of the page so it's basically impossible not to
see.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | MikeS | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 10:42 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I have yet to hear ANY comments about the $1.00 - and I've been selling since
2004. I do get a LOT of new buyers too (you could see by the feedback I've left
them what FB# I was when they bought from me). And I always get a little nervous
when I get the order for (1) one $0.11 cent part. But I never hear any complaints
when I charge the part cost + $1.00 materials + $1.64 postage. I guess they
are just happy they can get just the one part they need without having to buy
a bunch of other stuff to meet high minimums. I can't tell you how many orders
at $3.00 and under I receive. But if they don't mind paying the costs - I don't
mind selling them the one part they want.
I spent some time and did a spreadsheet of different types of orders and all
the costs associated with each one - and the $1.00 worked best for me too. I
don't think it's too high (as far as I know). And if nothing else - it gives
me a "buffer" to give a credit or refund if needed *which I often do) or if an
order went lost - would be sort of an insurance premium to use to refund a small
loss.
Good Luck with your store!
MikeS
BRICKMART
In Suggestions, Hypertrophy writes:
| | Hey Mike, no I haven't really had any other comments. It does slightly concern
me from time to time with buyers that are new to the site. I currently have
an order in that's $1.33 for 12 plant leaves that totals to $3.97 once shipped.
I can only assume that the buyer (0 feedback when order placed) is comfortable
paying that as my terms are there. I will probably throw in a few plant stems
also to better his experience. That's how I want to operate to keep people happy
and return to my store. If he questioned the fee, I would probably waive it
with a friendly explanation that he should read store terms on future purchases
as I would assume he did not know as he's new to the site. As a small seller
I have the time now to handle invidual situations as I deem best.
I think the seller's that complicate fees to a ridiculous degree lose orders
in the long run. That said, a buyer who has experience here can only blame themselves
if they get whammied for not reading store terms.
For me, the $1 is just a simplified way to cover packaging costs and separate
that from inventory costs. It is what works currently for me as a seller. If
a buyer doesn't want purchase because of that, it's ok, this is my structure.
In Suggestions, MikeS writes:
| | Hi Robb.
I do the same thing ... actual cost of postage + a flat $1.00 charge for materials
and delivery confirmation. And also do NOT have any minimum order or additional
fees. (I am not a big fan of stores that have a high min. order amount or a
bunch of fees where you have to have a Bachelor in Mathematics to try and figure
out how much your order will cost.) I set up my store like the ones I would
want to shop at.
I have the notice of my $1.00 charge near the top of my splash page, in the shipping
section of my splash page, and in the store terms (under shipping), so I don't
think it will be missed.
So besides your one German buyer, have you had any other comments about your
$1.00 fee?
MikeS
BRICKMART
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=MikeS
My Store counter: 29273
In Suggestions, Hypertrophy writes:
| | Here is what it comes down to for me personally...
Fees should not be a deceptive way by a seller to ensnare a buyer within the
"legally binding contract". They should also not be so complicated whereas they
create confusion. These type of store fees are bad for ALL sellers because they
may eliminate new buyers across the site based on costs exceeding expectation.
I charge a $1 flat fee on all my orders. I do not have a minimum buy. I package
all my lots individually, bubble wrap when necessary, etc...etc...
During the time this thread has been running I had a German buyer who did not
see / expect the $1 fee and was legitimately confused. I refunded the $1 fee
without hesitation. At the time, the fee was listed down in shipping terms.
I've now moved it to the top of the page so it's basically impossible not to
see.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hypertrophy | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 15:09 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Thanks for your responses. Here's the perfect reason (an order from this afternoon)
for why a $1 fee is useful when I do not have a minimum buy...
Total Items: 2
Unique Items (lots): 2
Total: US $0.11
This just taught me also that I probably need to list my minimum domestic shipping
at $1.64 so I can send via PayPal shipping. As my current store terms say "I
will do my very best to provide the least expensive shipping rate possible" I
felt obligated to ask the buyer if they wanted me to stick the parts in an envelope
with a $.45 stamp.
Always new lessons to be learned
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 15:31 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Hypertrophy writes:
| | Thanks for your responses. Here's the perfect reason (an order from this afternoon)
for why a $1 fee is useful when I do not have a minimum buy...
Total Items: 2
Unique Items (lots): 2
Total: US $0.11
This just taught me also that I probably need to list my minimum domestic shipping
at $1.64 so I can send via PayPal shipping. As my current store terms say "I
will do my very best to provide the least expensive shipping rate possible" I
felt obligated to ask the buyer if they wanted me to stick the parts in an envelope
with a $.45 stamp.
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I would use a stamp too.
Unfortunately many don't want any risk for a chargeback.
| | Always new lessons to be learned
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So with a stamp cheaper shipping is possible.
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| | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2012 06:34 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees - It's a loose-loose game | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In fact, there are a lot of subjectivity in you're statement. And maybe there
is not one truth...
In Suggestions, Thunor writes:
| | I just did a little investigating on how much sellers AND Bricklink are loosing
from one buyer - ME!!
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"Loosing", or not earning ? Because if you find a service that fit you better
somewhere else, no one here is loosing anything since no one can offer you the
same service...
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(due to all the crazy T's & C's and hidden charges)
These figures are approx: -
In the past 6 months I have spent close to £900 (± $1500) on parts, sets is a
whole lot more.
I buy very few sets on BL - because I am not buying discontinued sets, only snagging
bargains for parts "elsewhere".
So parts of that £900 approx £100 was spent here, buying from other sellers,
the other £800 + went to TLG direct.
Which means that's £800 in lost sales to B/L and about £32 in "commission" B/L
would have received.
One seller lost a £70 order (and we "fell out") because I baulked at being ripped
off
I used to buy all my parts here, but little by little I got tired of all the
BS charges, even if TLG are more at least I know exactly what I will pay!
Just a small fish granted, maybe (rogue) sellers don't care as there are plenty
of fish in the sea?
When it comes to selling, parts should be priced correctly to include all the
costs of selling, those "rogues" with all their extra's are skewing the sales
average by I would say at least 5%, likely more - which means that honest sellers
are loosing.
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"Correctly" is you're judgement, not a fact...You'd better like to have a final
price, but other may better liked to know what they pay for items and what for
the services...
Furthermore, because of being used to final prices, it seem that in France people
get suspicious when a trade is done with money. Many feels like, at some extend,
they will be robbed by the seller. Then they never realised that a service is
provided. And this service have a cost for the seller too... Hence I'm not sure,
from a sociological point that a final price is a good thing on long run...
| | I don't see any way the costs per order should exceed an average of 50¢
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It depends of the structure of your cost...and once again, on how you display
your cost (or hide them in the price....)
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I do and could go on - apologies - graham
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I usually don't like complex cost (and not hidden, if they are featured in the
terms, even if not clearly for the buyer). But I like that BL let the seller
free to display his service as he want; And the buyer free to choose what service
he wants.
And I'm part of the buyer who like when one haven't to make complex calculation
to know how much I will finally pay. And I like as well to choose which financial
system I would reward (with fees) for the money transfer services...
To sum-up my point, there is a lot on individual preferences in the way we think
things should be... and on is "do you like better freedom or security ?" (because
wanting something to fit simply to your wish is like wanting to be assured not
making any mistake, then it's a kind of security).
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| | | | | Author: | shawnxyz | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2016 15:51 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 99 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I think surcharges could be regularized. There's a "minimum order" field.
(Which sometimes acts like a surcharge as you have to buy more if you just need
one part). There could be a "per-lot" field and a "handling" field.
I just ran into a 5% fee that I didn't catch in the store terms. 5% isn't
too bad and may not have made me change my mind, but it was surprising. Especially
when I picked the store based on the per-brick price. I *know* some folks have
more shipping than others, so I *know* that the prices aren't always comparable,
but it's certainly not discoverable.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jan 12, 2016 19:58 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, shawnxyz writes:
| | I think surcharges could be regularized. There's a "minimum order" field.
(Which sometimes acts like a surcharge as you have to buy more if you just need
one part). There could be a "per-lot" field and a "handling" field.
I just ran into a 5% fee that I didn't catch in the store terms. 5% isn't
too bad and may not have made me change my mind, but it was surprising. Especially
when I picked the store based on the per-brick price. I *know* some folks have
more shipping than others, so I *know* that the prices aren't always comparable,
but it's certainly not discoverable.
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This guy had a percentage fee and it wasn't mentioned in his terms?
Call me harsh, but I say, permanent selling privilege revoke time...
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 13, 2016 05:02 | | Subject: | Re: Hidden fees | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, shawnxyz writes:
| | I think surcharges could be regularized. There's a "minimum order" field.
(Which sometimes acts like a surcharge as you have to buy more if you just need
one part). There could be a "per-lot" field and a "handling" field.
I just ran into a 5% fee that I didn't catch in the store terms. 5% isn't
too bad and may not have made me change my mind, but it was surprising. Especially
when I picked the store based on the per-brick price. I *know* some folks have
more shipping than others, so I *know* that the prices aren't always comparable,
but it's certainly not discoverable.
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This guy had a percentage fee and it wasn't mentioned in his terms?
Call me harsh, but I say, permanent selling privilege revoke time...
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He didn't say that. He said he didn't catch it in the store terms. So
it was there but either not read (buyer error), or buried (bad seller behaviour).
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Sweden, Stockholm
Canada, Ontario
USA, Texas
France, Grand Est
Germany, Bayern
Netherlands, Gelderland
Finland, Päijät-Häme
United Kingdom, England
Spain, Andalucia Ceuta i Melilla
