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| | | Author: | Poncke  | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 04:33 | | Subject: | How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 140 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system. They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller. In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back? I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 06:02 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, Poncke writes:
| | I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system. They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller. In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back? I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
|
Bricklink haven't done anything wrong if the IOSS was incorrectly entered
on the system. Why are the seller's hands tied?
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 12:43 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | In Help, Poncke writes:
| | I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system. They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller. In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back? I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
|
Bricklink haven't done anything wrong if the IOSS was incorrectly entered
on the system.
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BL should refund the VAT. That’s what the EU Commission says.
| | Why are the seller's hands tied?
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Because the seller didn’t collect the VAT.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:00 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | |
| | Why are the seller's hands tied?
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Because the seller didn’t collect the VAT.
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They were responsible for supplying the IOSS info though.
International sales through BL seems to throw up a lot of these. I wonder if
it is a small number in a very large number, or why sellers on other sites don't
seem to get as many issues.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:14 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | | |
| | Why are the seller's hands tied?
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Because the seller didn’t collect the VAT.
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They were responsible for supplying the IOSS info though.
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Maybe, but maybe not: maybe the problem occured between the posts/courriers.
The VAT Group said: “there’s problems, the solution is for the marketplaces to
refund the VAT.” The Commission said “yes, we allow the marketplaces to refund
and to remove the VAT if it was not yet remitted or deduct it on the next round
if it was already remitted.”
No looking at whom to blame. The buyer is already losing on the thing (second
VAT is more than the first as it applies to the first + broker fee).
| | International sales through BL seems to throw up a lot of these. I wonder if
it is a small number in a very large number,
|
It may also be because of the way BL (doesn’t) handle it.
| | or why sellers on other sites don't seem to get as many issues.
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It may also be because of the way the other sites handle it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:19 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | No looking at whom to blame. The buyer is already losing on the thing (second
VAT is more than the first as it applies to the first + broker fee).
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Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
IMO he's partly responsible of this mess (excuse me), and maybe seeing the
BrickLink absence of refund, seller and buyer should share 50/50% the cost?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:23 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
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Because there’s LEGO in the package!
Also, you want the buyer to refuse the package? So it’s returned to the seller…
and who pays for shipping?
| | IMO he's partly responsible of this mess (excuse me), and maybe seeing the
BrickLink absence of refund, seller and buyer should share 50/50% the cost?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
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Because there’s LEGO in the package!
Also, you want the buyer to refuse the package? So it’s returned to the seller…
and who pays for shipping?
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Who cares... I would NOT pay twice, simply reject and see later what happens.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
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Because there’s LEGO in the package!
Also, you want the buyer to refuse the package? So it’s returned to the seller…
and who pays for shipping?
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Who cares... I would NOT pay twice, simply reject and see later what happens.
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Well, what I meant is then there’ll be messages here about that question, and
answers will vary from:
— well, the seller pays, it’s their fault for not giving the IOSS properly,
to
— the buyer pays, it’s a binding contract!
and anything in between, including your
— shouldn’t they share 50/50?
That only moves the problem… and the buyer doesn’t have their LEGO!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:49 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | That only moves the problem… and the buyer doesn’t have their LEGO!
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Frankly, need of LEGO shouldn't make you to accept to pay twice the taxes.
Apart if he didn't know he already paid (or he had to pay again, which I
doubt), then it's a wrong decision, IMO. How can you complain about something
you agreed to?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | That only moves the problem… and the buyer doesn’t have their LEGO!
|
Frankly, need of LEGO shouldn't make you to accept to pay twice the taxes.
Apart if he didn't know he already paid (or he had to pay again, which I
doubt), then it's a wrong decision, IMO. How can you complain about something
you agreed to?
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It is how this system was designed. Buyer pays twice and gets a refund from the
marketplace.
Only problem is that BrickLink has not implemented this yet...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:06 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, WoutR writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | That only moves the problem… and the buyer doesn’t have their LEGO!
|
Frankly, need of LEGO shouldn't make you to accept to pay twice the taxes.
Apart if he didn't know he already paid (or he had to pay again, which I
doubt), then it's a wrong decision, IMO. How can you complain about something
you agreed to?
|
It is how this system was designed. Buyer pays twice and gets a refund from the
marketplace.
Only problem is that BrickLink has not implemented this yet...
|
I thought it was designed so that the buyer would pay the marketplace who would
collect the VAT, the marketplace would give the correct information to the seller,
the seller would supply the information to their mail carrier, the mail carrier
would supply the information to the relevant customs and they let it through
as VAT was prepaid.
It seems the seller or/and courier and possibly customs are messing up fairly
frequently. I would have imagined that if it was designed such that the original
marketplace should refund and not customs when there is a second charge then
there should be some official way to inform the marketplace to refund the VAT.
Relying on customers saying they have been double charged seems like a massive
hole in the system, as anyone could fake a receipt showing they had been charged
VAT again. I'm really surprised there is no electronic record that VAT has
been paid, that the buyer can give to the marketplace and they can check they
should be refunding without relying on the honesty of the buyer.
The whole system is based on electronic communication.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:16 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
I thought it was designed so that the buyer would pay the marketplace who would
collect the VAT, the marketplace would give the correct information to the seller,
the seller would supply the information to their mail carrier, the mail carrier
would supply the information to the relevant customs and they let it through
as VAT was prepaid.
|
Yes.
| | It seems the seller or/and courier and possibly customs are messing up fairly
frequently.
|
Indeed.
The various postal services (also in EU) and Customs administrations were not
ready.
| | I would have imagined that if it was designed such that the original
marketplace should refund and not customs when there is a second charge then
there should be some official way to inform the marketplace to refund the VAT.
|
It was not really ‘designed’ this way. It’s a solution they came up with in
2022 after a full year of complaints from EU buyers.
This works on Napoleon’s principle: “L’intendance suivra.” (Logistics will follow.)
| | Relying on customers saying they have been double charged seems like a massive
hole in the system, as anyone could fake a receipt showing they had been charged
VAT again. I'm really surprised there is no electronic record that VAT has
been paid, that the buyer can give to the marketplace and they can check they
should be refunding without relying on the honesty of the buyer.
The whole system is based on electronic communication.
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Agreed.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:01 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Taxes, yorbrick writes:
| | […]
I thought it was designed so that the buyer would pay the marketplace who would
collect the VAT, the marketplace would give the correct information to the seller,
the seller would supply the information to their mail carrier, the mail carrier
would supply the information to the relevant customs and they let it through
as VAT was prepaid.
|
Yes.
| | It seems the seller or/and courier and possibly customs are messing up fairly
frequently.
|
Indeed.
The various postal services (also in EU) and Customs administrations were not
ready.
| | I would have imagined that if it was designed such that the original
marketplace should refund and not customs when there is a second charge then
there should be some official way to inform the marketplace to refund the VAT.
|
It was not really ‘designed’ this way. It’s a solution they came up with in
2022 after a full year of complaints from EU buyers.
This works on Napoleon’s principle: “L’intendance suivra.” (Logistics will follow.)
|
That means the following: "Stewardship will follow." What you put into
brackets would be translated as the following: "La logistique suivra."
This is thanks to Google translate.
| |
| | Relying on customers saying they have been double charged seems like a massive
hole in the system, as anyone could fake a receipt showing they had been charged
VAT again. I'm really surprised there is no electronic record that VAT has
been paid, that the buyer can give to the marketplace and they can check they
should be refunding without relying on the honesty of the buyer.
The whole system is based on electronic communication.
|
Agreed.
|
Hopefully it's also based on correctly translated text. Otherwise we're
all in a boat with a lot of holes that are leaking water. 
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:34 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, ghyde writes:
| | […]
| | This works on Napoleon’s principle: “L’intendance suivra.” (Logistics will follow.)
|
That means the following: "Stewardship will follow." What you put into
brackets would be translated as the following: "La logistique suivra."
This is thanks to Google translate.
|
Bad translator, change translator 
‘Stewardship’ is the quality or office of being a steward (see Denethor), or
the act of taking good care of something. “Some kind of lieutenant will follow,”
“some kind of interim government will follow,” or “good care will follow” is
not what is meant.
‘L’intendance,’ in military context, means the ‘supply corps.’ In a more general
context, I prefer to use the word ‘logistics.’
That’s what the original sentence means: “I gave the march orders, I don’t care
how you manage it or if it’s even possible.”
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:44 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Taxes, ghyde writes:
| | […]
| | This works on Napoleon’s principle: “L’intendance suivra.” (Logistics will follow.)
|
That means the following: "Stewardship will follow." What you put into
brackets would be translated as the following: "La logistique suivra."
This is thanks to Google translate.
|
Bad translator, change translator
|
Your translation leaves a lot to be desired.
| |
‘Stewardship’ is the quality or office of being a steward (see Denethor), or
the act of taking good care of something. “Some kind of lieutenant will follow,”
“some kind of interim government will follow,” or “good care will follow” is
not what is meant.
‘L’intendance,’ in military context, means the ‘supply corps.’ In a more general
context, I prefer to use the word ‘logistics.’
That’s what the original sentence means: “I gave the march orders, I don’t care
how you manage it or if it’s even possible.”
|
You, on the other hand, mentioned Napoleon. Napoleon was a military type of person.
He'd probably turn in his grave at being called a steward or being given
a stewardship!
My dad was in the army. If he was still around, he'd probably be surprised
at the meaning you were trying to convey.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:55 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, ghyde writes:
| | […]
| | Bad translator, change translator
|
Your translation leaves a lot to be desired.
|
(French?) meme. I guess “bad meme, change meme” applies 
| | […]
| | That’s what the original sentence means: “I gave the march orders, I don’t care
how you manage it or if it’s even possible.”
|
You, on the other hand, mentioned Napoleon. Napoleon was a military type of person.
He'd probably turn in his grave at being called a steward or being given
a stewardship!
|
He was a self-made Emperor, of course he wouldn’t like to be mixed with stewardship.
But I didn’t introduce the idea of stewardship here; you did.
| | My dad was in the army. If he was still around, he'd probably be surprised
at the meaning you were trying to convey.
|
I think there’s still something lost in translation because I’m about sure “the
higher-ups gave orders the lower-downs were not and could not be ready for” is
something military types would understand.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:57 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | He was a self-made Emperor, of course he wouldn’t like to be mixed with stewardship.
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Why do you guys always talk about me???
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 14:02 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | He was a self-made Emperor, of course he wouldn’t like to be mixed with stewardship.
|
Why do you guys always talk about me???
|
You a steward?
« Toute ma vie, j’ai rêvé d’être une hôtesse de l’air… »
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 14:29 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | He was a self-made Emperor, of course he wouldn’t like to be mixed with stewardship.
|
Why do you guys always talk about me???
|
You a steward?
« Toute ma vie, j’ai rêvé d’être une hôtesse de l’air… »
|
Iconoclaste ! Clysopompe ! Moule à gaufres ! Capitaine de bateau-lavoir !
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Iconoclaste ! Clysopompe ! Moule à gaufres ! Capitaine de bateau-lavoir !
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Waffles!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 14:45 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Taxes, ghyde writes:
| | […]
| | Bad translator, change translator
|
Your translation leaves a lot to be desired.
|
(French?) meme. I guess “bad meme, change meme” applies
| | […]
| | That’s what the original sentence means: “I gave the march orders, I don’t care
how you manage it or if it’s even possible.”
|
You, on the other hand, mentioned Napoleon. Napoleon was a military type of person.
He'd probably turn in his grave at being called a steward or being given
a stewardship!
|
He was a self-made Emperor, of course he wouldn’t like to be mixed with stewardship.
But I didn’t introduce the idea of stewardship here; you did.
| | My dad was in the army. If he was still around, he'd probably be surprised
at the meaning you were trying to convey.
|
I think there’s still something lost in translation because I’m about sure “the
higher-ups gave orders the lower-downs were not and could not be ready for” is
something military types would understand.
|
If you put garbage in, expect to get garbage out. That's how computer translation
usually works. Google is pretty good at analyzing intended meaning and context,
but it's limited to what can be a reasonable interpretation.
If you're talking to a worldwide audience, ensure that your text can be interpreted
correctly by anyone, and you should be good.
Apologies if there is anything that I don't understand that you were trying
to convey that didn't come across correctly. I get that feeling sometimes
when a site error message appears.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 13, 2024 23:08 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, ghyde writes:
| | If you put garbage in, expect to get garbage out. That's how computer translation
usually works. Google is pretty good at analyzing intended meaning and context,
but it's limited to what can be a reasonable interpretation.
|
I don't know about you, but I'd trust a French person (or at least someone
claiming to be French) over Google when it comes to translating French to English.
| | If you're talking to a worldwide audience, ensure that your text can be interpreted
correctly by anyone, and you should be good.
|
Sylvain's original translation was perfectly clear to me: L'intendence
suivre (logistics will follow).
Napoléon may have been an emperor, but he did some good things. Some may think
of him as a steward of sorts.
But in this context, Napoléon was referring not to himself or his own forces,
but to those following him: the supply corps; i.e., logistics.
| | Apologies if there is anything that I don't understand that you were trying
to convey that didn't come across correctly. I get that feeling sometimes
when a site error message appears.
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That's because those messages are written by and for programmers, not laymen.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Feb 13, 2024 23:11 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, wildchicken13 writes:
pouah !
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:44 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Taxes, ghyde writes:
| | […]
| | This works on Napoleon’s principle: “L’intendance suivra.” (Logistics will follow.)
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That means the following: "Stewardship will follow." What you put into
brackets would be translated as the following: "La logistique suivra."
This is thanks to Google translate.
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Bad translator, change translator
‘Stewardship’ is the quality or office of being a steward (see Denethor), or
the act of taking good care of something. “Some kind of lieutenant will follow,”
“some kind of interim government will follow,” or “good care will follow” is
not what is meant.
‘L’intendance,’ in military context, means the ‘supply corps.’ In a more general
context, I prefer to use the word ‘logistics.’
That’s what the original sentence means: “I gave the march orders, I don’t care
how you manage it or if it’s even possible.”
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Oh, and “will follow” doesn’t mean “will come next” but “will (have to) keep
up.” 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 16:26 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, yorbrick writes:
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I thought it was designed so that the buyer would pay the marketplace who would
collect the VAT, the marketplace would give the correct information to the seller,
the seller would supply the information to their mail carrier, the mail carrier
would supply the information to the relevant customs and they let it through
as VAT was prepaid.
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Yes, this is exactly how it works. I would only add that the marketplace (BL)
is *required* to collect the VAT.
| | It seems the seller or/and courier and possibly customs are messing up fairly
frequently.
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If it was frequent and the courier or customs was at fault it would be a systemic
problem that would show up on other marketplaces as well.
| | I would have imagined that if it was designed such that the original
marketplace should refund and not customs when there is a second charge then
there should be some official way to inform the marketplace to refund the VAT.
Relying on customers saying they have been double charged seems like a massive
hole in the system, as anyone could fake a receipt showing they had been charged
VAT again. I'm really surprised there is no electronic record that VAT has
been paid, that the buyer can give to the marketplace and they can check they
should be refunding without relying on the honesty of the buyer.
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I haven't heard of any marketplace refunding VAT. Their responsibility ends
with collecting and then remitting the VAT.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 16:33 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, zorbanj writes:
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I haven't heard of any marketplace refunding VAT.
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Ebay has instructions and a page for that.
| | Their responsibility ends with collecting and then remitting the VAT.
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This part is incorrect.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Feb 5, 2024 00:59 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
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Because there’s LEGO in the package!
Also, you want the buyer to refuse the package? So it’s returned to the seller…
and who pays for shipping?
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Who cares... I would NOT pay twice, simply reject and see later what happens.
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As a seller my jib is to submit the vat info in paper and electronically. There
is nothing better i can do.
I already made it clear in my terms and i would make it even more clear later
that buyer has three opttions:
1) do not order from me
2) order from me md accept to pay cheap international shipping via private coureirs
like Stallion express. In that case, you pay like $30 for 1kg but if you don’t
pay the double vat if that unfortunate happens , the package will not return
by courier so you lose all your money and no refund will be given to you. In
theory paypal will side with me if buyer did not pick up the package, i.e. refused
it.
3) order from me and pay for high shipping with canadapost, like $70 for 1kg.
Then if you dont pay the double vat, i expect a payment for return shipping,
which may be high plus other fees i get charged. This option is not worth it.
This being said, i had this happened only once for a package sent to hungary
or poland via ebay.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 09:56 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | No looking at whom to blame. The buyer is already losing on the thing (second
VAT is more than the first as it applies to the first + broker fee).
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Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
IMO he's partly responsible of this mess (excuse me), and maybe seeing the
BrickLink absence of refund, seller and buyer should share 50/50% the cost?
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How is this my responsiblity??? I paid correctly, then something went wrong but
nothing to do with me. Then I am asked to pay VAT again or have it sent back
to the seller. And then what? Then I have absolutely nothing, and would have
lost the first VAT and the shipping cost.
So I decided to pay VAT twice because overall that would the least costly option
for me.
Have a lie down.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:45 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | No looking at whom to blame. The buyer is already losing on the thing (second
VAT is more than the first as it applies to the first + broker fee).
|
Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
IMO he's partly responsible of this mess (excuse me), and maybe seeing the
BrickLink absence of refund, seller and buyer should share 50/50% the cost?
|
How is this my responsiblity??? I paid correctly, then something went wrong but
nothing to do with me. Then I am asked to pay VAT again or have it sent back
to the seller. And then what? Then I have absolutely nothing, and would have
lost the first VAT and the shipping cost.
So I decided to pay VAT twice because overall that would the least costly option
for me.
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No: refuse the parcel because double taxation, ask the seller or PayPal to fully
refund you.
You wouldn't have lost one single cent.
Paying twice, if you're aware of, is part of your responsibility, I'm
really sorry.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:51 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:02 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| Language please.
In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | No looking at whom to blame. The buyer is already losing on the thing (second
VAT is more than the first as it applies to the first + broker fee).
|
Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
IMO he's partly responsible of this mess (excuse me), and maybe seeing the
BrickLink absence of refund, seller and buyer should share 50/50% the cost?
|
How is this my responsiblity??? I paid correctly, then something went wrong but
nothing to do with me. Then I am asked to pay VAT again or have it sent back
to the seller. And then what? Then I have absolutely nothing, and would have
lost the first VAT and the shipping cost.
So I decided to pay VAT twice because overall that would the least costly option
for me.
|
No: refuse the parcel because double taxation, ask the seller or PayPal to fully
refund you.
You wouldn't have lost one single cent.
Paying twice, if you're aware of, is part of your responsibility, I'm
really sorry.`
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WHy would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the sytem correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldnt get my money back. Either way I would be out of money, not
the seller. I would either have my Lego and pay VAT twice, or have nothing and
paid shipping fees. Which one do you think is the least [redacted] option for me?
Non of this is my fault. No matter how much you say it is. I am sorry you dont
understand how all of this works.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:26 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | No looking at whom to blame. The buyer is already losing on the thing (second
VAT is more than the first as it applies to the first + broker fee).
|
Yes, but why did the buyer accepted to pay twice?
IMO he's partly responsible of this mess (excuse me), and maybe seeing the
BrickLink absence of refund, seller and buyer should share 50/50% the cost?
|
How is this my responsiblity??? I paid correctly, then something went wrong but
nothing to do with me. Then I am asked to pay VAT again or have it sent back
to the seller. And then what? Then I have absolutely nothing, and would have
lost the first VAT and the shipping cost.
So I decided to pay VAT twice because overall that would the least costly option
for me.
|
No: refuse the parcel because double taxation, ask the seller or PayPal to fully
refund you.
You wouldn't have lost one single cent.
Paying twice, if you're aware of, is part of your responsibility, I'm
really sorry.
|
Why would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the system correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldn't get my money back. Either way I would be out of money,
not
the seller. I would either have my Lego and pay VAT twice, or have nothing and
paid shipping fees. Which one do you think is the least bad option for me?
Non of this is my fault. No matter how much you say it is.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:50 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | | |
Paying twice, if you're aware of, is part of your responsibility, I'm
really sorry.
|
Why would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the system correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldn't get my money back. Either way I would be out of money,
not
the seller. I would either have my Lego and pay VAT twice, or have nothing and
paid shipping fees. Which one do you think is the least bad option for me?
Non of this is my fault. No matter how much you say it is.
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When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT. When we get the package in return
we resend at our cost, and it usually works fine the second time. We lose on
the shipping cost, but that is usually a lot less that the VAT and fee charged,
and we just see that as a cost of doing business. Anyway this happens so rare
that the cost is of little significance to us. The buyers only loss is the extra
time it takes. We do not refund the VAT and fee if the buyer does not follow
our advise.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:57 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | | | Why would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the system correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldn't get my money back. Either way I would be out of money,
not
the seller. I would either have my Lego and pay VAT twice, or have nothing and
paid shipping fees. Which one do you think is the least bad option for me?
Non of this is my fault. No matter how much you say it is.
|
When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
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^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:00 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | | | When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
|
^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts
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I know, I just used a lot of words to say I agreed
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:21 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, helge writes:
| | | | | | When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
|
^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts
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I know, I just used a lot of words to say I agreed
|
You guys are talking about two different things. You INSTRUCT YOUR BUYERS not
to pay when they contact you and to have it sent back. I contacted my buyer and
he did no such thing. So I had to choose between paying VAT twice or have it
sent back, and get a refund minus shipping cost. Because the seller says they
did everything right.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:38 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, helge writes:
| | | | | | When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
|
^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts
|
I know, I just used a lot of words to say I agreed
|
You guys are talking about two different things.
I contacted my buyer and he did no such thing.
So I had to choose between paying VAT twice or have it sent back, and get a refund minus shipping cost.
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All this because you're *assuming* you're going to lose something.
The return is always free for you.
You're protected by PayPal.
You don't need to ask the seller.
If they ask you to re-pay any Tax, simply refuse the shipment.
In short and for next time (hoping there won't be any), simply reject the
shipment.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 9, 2024 03:56 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, helge writes:
| | | | | | When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
|
^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts
|
I know, I just used a lot of words to say I agreed
|
You guys are talking about two different things.
I contacted my buyer and he did no such thing.
So I had to choose between paying VAT twice or have it sent back, and get a refund minus shipping cost.
|
All this because you're *assuming* you're going to lose something.
The return is always free for you.
You're protected by PayPal.
You don't need to ask the seller.
If they ask you to re-pay any Tax, simply refuse the shipment.
In short and for next time (hoping there won't be any), simply reject the
shipment.
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I am not talking about the return. I am talking about the shipping I paid to
get the item, not to return it. I know the return shipping is not charged to
me. You are assuming a lot more than I do.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Feb 9, 2024 04:19 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | |
I am not talking about the return. I am talking about the shipping I paid to
get the item, not to return it. I know the return shipping is not charged to
me. You are assuming a lot more than I do.
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He is assuming that the seller would refund the whole amount including shipping,
or resend the package at his own cost. That is what I would have done.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 9, 2024 10:13 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, helge writes:
| | | |
I am not talking about the return. I am talking about the shipping I paid to
get the item, not to return it. I know the return shipping is not charged to
me. You are assuming a lot more than I do.
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He is assuming that the seller would refund the whole amount including shipping,
or resend the package at his own cost. That is what I would have done.
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Yep, of course Helge.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:50 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, helge writes:
| | | | | | When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
|
^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts
|
I know, I just used a lot of words to say I agreed
|
You guys are talking about two different things. You INSTRUCT YOUR BUYERS not
to pay when they contact you and to have it sent back. I contacted my buyer and
he did no such thing. So I had to choose between paying VAT twice or have it
sent back, and get a refund minus shipping cost. Because the seller says they
did everything right.
|
My input was meant to describe how I think the situation should have been handled
from the sellers side in the first place. So I agree with you; in my opinion
your seller has not handled this correctly.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 16:28 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| This is helpful for the future, but will not help the buyer with their current
problem.
In Taxes, helge writes:
| | | | | | When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
|
^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts
|
I know, I just used a lot of words to say I agreed
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 16:33 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, zorbanj writes:
| | This is helpful for the future, but will not help the buyer with their current
problem.
|
In this case, Seller may help the buyer?
If not, then as BrickLink may not do anything, it's a loss for the buyer.
I'm not sure to know the amount neither... if it's a 10$/€ loss, then,
what can I say - just forget it and sleep better?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:18 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | Why would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the system correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldn't get my money back. Either way I would be out of money,
not
the seller. I would either have my Lego and pay VAT twice, or have nothing and
paid shipping fees. Which one do you think is the least bad option for me?
Non of this is my fault. No matter how much you say it is.
|
When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT.
|
^ this is what I'm trying to explain for half a dozen posts
|
But I wasnt instructed to not pay the VAT. I contacted the seller about it BEFORE
I paid and all he said was that he did all correctly on his side. So all I could
do was accept to pay twice or have it sent back and lose the shipping cost. Can
you really not see a predicament here. And why i chose to have the lego and pay
vat twice instead of having no lego and paid shipping cost for nothing.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:15 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, helge writes:
| | | | | |
Paying twice, if you're aware of, is part of your responsibility, I'm
really sorry.
|
Why would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the system correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldn't get my money back. Either way I would be out of money,
not
the seller. I would either have my Lego and pay VAT twice, or have nothing and
paid shipping fees. Which one do you think is the least bad option for me?
Non of this is my fault. No matter how much you say it is.
|
When a buyer says that he has been asked to pay VAT again, we instruct him to
not accept the package and not pay the VAT. When we get the package in return
we resend at our cost, and it usually works fine the second time. We lose on
the shipping cost, but that is usually a lot less that the VAT and fee charged,
and we just see that as a cost of doing business. Anyway this happens so rare
that the cost is of little significance to us. The buyers only loss is the extra
time it takes. We do not refund the VAT and fee if the buyer does not follow
our advise.
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I told the seller I had to pay again before I paid it. He offered me nothing
other than showing me he had a confirmation that the IOSS was collected correctly
on the mechanism. SO why would he offer me all that when he thinks he did it
all correctly.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:18 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | |
I told the seller I had to pay again before I paid it. He offered me nothing
other than showing me he had a confirmation that the IOSS was collected correctly
on the mechanism. SO why would he offer me all that when he thinks he did it
all correctly.
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I can only say how we do it, even if we know that we had done everything correctly.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:56 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | | | | No: refuse the parcel because double taxation, ask the seller or PayPal to fully
refund you.
You wouldn't have lost one single cent.
Paying twice, if you're aware of, is part of your responsibility, I'm
really sorry.
|
Why would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the system correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldn't get my money back. Either way I would be out of money,
not the seller.
|
Pay using PayPal, if the seller doesn't wish to refund you, PayPal will do.
Again, why would someone ACCEPT to knowingly pay twice, then complain? Can't
understand this point.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:16 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | No: refuse the parcel because double taxation, ask the seller or PayPal to fully
refund you.
You wouldn't have lost one single cent.
Paying twice, if you're aware of, is part of your responsibility, I'm
really sorry.
|
Why would the seller give me the postage back and take a loss if he says that
he put it in the system correctly? The seller would be taking a loss on a full
refund so I wouldn't get my money back. Either way I would be out of money,
not the seller.
|
Pay using PayPal, if the seller doesn't wish to refund you, PayPal will do.
Again, why would someone ACCEPT to knowingly pay twice, then complain? Can't
understand this point.
|
Explained it 3 times now, wont explain it a 4th time. If you dont understand
it, then there is nothing I can add to help you understand.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | kittybrickz | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:12 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| It's not a nice situation for the seller, for sure. I learned this with my
first sale to the EU, I did not provide the IOSS number when I brought the package
to the post office. They electronically send the VAT confirmation ahead of the
parcel. In this situation, it is the seller's fault, regardless of if they
knew they were doing something incorrectly.
It looks like this is a recurring situation in the Bricklink world. If I were
that seller I would refund you the second VAT, even if it means losing the profit
on the sale.
Also, I tried finding information on refunding twice-paid VATs and all I could
find was Tax return information for local residents of the EU. I'm sure there
is some number buried somewhere, but being in Canada it is hard to find out without
a huge long distance phone bill.
I hope you find resolution, I know it's frustrating. Those VAT bastrdz must
be making a mint on these!
Cheers ----K
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| | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 09:53 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, yorbrick writes:
| | In Help, Poncke writes:
| | I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system. They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller. In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back? I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
|
Bricklink haven't done anything wrong if the IOSS was incorrectly entered
on the system. Why are the seller's hands tied?
|
Mate, BL collects the VAT. I paid seller through PayPal and they get a chunck
of the money without the VAT. That goes directly to BL. The seller cant do anything
here. All they can do is also is send a message into a dark hole. The only one
who can refund the VAT is BL
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| | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 13:59 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, Poncke writes:
| | I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system.
|
The IOSS number must be entered electronically when buying the postage. The seller
messed up.
| | They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller.
|
This is the correct answer.
| | In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
|
| | I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back?
|
From the seller.
| | I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
|
Why do you doubt it will work? This is the only way.
| | But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
|
You are not going to get the VAT back from Bricklink. Bricklink collected the
VAT as they were required to do.
The seller goofed. Why are the seller's hands tied?
Also, why didn't you contact the seller when you were informed that VAT was
due? If the seller refused to refund you that VAT, you could have refused to
pay, had the package returned to the seller and filed for a refund of your entire
payment.
Didn't you get your answer when you asked the same question recently:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1446786
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| | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 14:06 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| on a side note on the tax printouts bricklink kinda sounds like they consider
themselves the "seller"
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 14:14 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, Nubs_Select writes:
| | on a side note on the tax printouts bricklink kinda sounds like they consider
themselves the "seller"
|
The different laws consider BL the seller (“deemed supplier” in EU). That’s
why/how BL has to collect the tax.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 14:23 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Help, Nubs_Select writes:
| | on a side note on the tax printouts bricklink kinda sounds like they consider
themselves the "seller"
|
The different laws consider BL the seller (“deemed supplier” in EU). That’s
why/how BL has to collect the tax.
|
I see, and then should refund if paid twice...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 3, 2024 14:31 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Help, Nubs_Select writes:
| | on a side note on the tax printouts bricklink kinda sounds like they consider
themselves the "seller"
|
The different laws consider BL the seller (“deemed supplier” in EU). That’s
why/how BL has to collect the tax.
|
I see, and then should refund if paid twice...
|
Exactly… and because Customs can’t confess to any wrong.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 10:03 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Nubs_Select writes:
| | on a side note on the tax printouts bricklink kinda sounds like they consider
themselves the "seller"
|
the seller showed me proof that vat was collected correctly, yet my post office
says it was entered on the system incorrectly.
I dont who to believe, could be a system issue, but the only way to get vat back
is from BL/Seller.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 10:05 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, zorbanj writes:
| | In Help, Poncke writes:
| | I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system.
|
The IOSS number must be entered electronically when buying the postage. The seller
messed up.
| | They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller.
|
This is the correct answer.
| | In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
|
| | I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back?
|
From the seller.
| | I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
|
Why do you doubt it will work? This is the only way.
| | But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
|
You are not going to get the VAT back from Bricklink. Bricklink collected the
VAT as they were required to do.
The seller goofed. Why are the seller's hands tied?
Also, why didn't you contact the seller when you were informed that VAT was
due? If the seller refused to refund you that VAT, you could have refused to
pay, had the package returned to the seller and filed for a refund of your entire
payment.
Didn't you get your answer when you asked the same question recently:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1446786
|
seller was very cooperative, but says he did everything correctly, also has the
VAT invoiuce which says IOSS was enterered correctly.
So someone messed up, but I can only get vat back from BL. And VAT is no one's
profit or revenue, so there should be no issue sending it back me. Its just one
big confusing dark hole and I dont know who or where to turn to get my VAT back
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 10:42 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| Attached is a screenshot of shipping information I must fill out for an international
shipping label. The black box is where the Bricklink IOSS number must be entered.
If the number is not entered, the buyer will probably be charged VAT again. It
doesn't matter if there's a VAT invoice included in the package or if
I write in the IOSS number on the label by hand.
Yes, this is for US shipping but the idea is the same. If your seller didn't
enter the IOSS number electronically then that is the reason you were charged
VAT again. If the seller is unable to enter the IOSS number electronically they
shouldn't be selling to EU buyers.
So again, you must get the original VAT back from the seller. If you feel bad
ask for half of it back, but you aren't going to be refunded by Bricklink
or your country. If the seller did in fact complete the shipping label correctly
and there was a glitch they will have to pay you and then take it up with their
post office.
In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| |
seller was very cooperative, but says he did everything correctly, also has the
VAT invoiuce which says IOSS was enterered correctly.
So someone messed up, but I can only get vat back from BL. And VAT is no one's
profit or revenue, so there should be no issue sending it back me. Its just one
big confusing dark hole and I dont know who or where to turn to get my VAT back
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:04 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, zorbanj writes:
| | Attached is a screenshot of shipping information I must fill out for an international
shipping label. The black box is where the Bricklink IOSS number must be entered.
If the number is not entered, the buyer will probably be charged VAT again. It
doesn't matter if there's a VAT invoice included in the package or if
I write in the IOSS number on the label by hand.
Yes, this is for US shipping but the idea is the same. If your seller didn't
enter the IOSS number electronically then that is the reason you were charged
VAT again. If the seller is unable to enter the IOSS number electronically they
shouldn't be selling to EU buyers.
So again, you must get the original VAT back from the seller. If you feel bad
ask for half of it back, but you aren't going to be refunded by Bricklink
or your country. If the seller did in fact complete the shipping label correctly
and there was a glitch they will have to pay you and then take it up with their
post office.
In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| |
seller was very cooperative, but says he did everything correctly, also has the
VAT invoiuce which says IOSS was enterered correctly.
So someone messed up, but I can only get vat back from BL. And VAT is no one's
profit or revenue, so there should be no issue sending it back me. Its just one
big confusing dark hole and I dont know who or where to turn to get my VAT back
|
|
Thanks, seller says they never had an issue sending to the EU. He showed me this
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:16 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| | |
Thanks, seller says they never had an issue sending to the EU. He showed me this
|
That has no real value; the IOSS number must be filled in when registering the
package. If that is not done, it does not help to attach the receipt.
BUT: I have had a few cases where we have filled in the IOSS number correctly,
and could prove that we had done so, and still the buyer were charged VAT again.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 16:38 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| |
| | | | seller was very cooperative, but says he did everything correctly, also has the
VAT invoiuce which says IOSS was enterered correctly.
So someone messed up, but I can only get vat back from BL. And VAT is no one's
profit or revenue, so there should be no issue sending it back me. Its just one
big confusing dark hole and I dont know who or where to turn to get my VAT back
|
|
Thanks, seller says they never had an issue sending to the EU. He showed me this
|
See attached. This is shown to a seller for any order where VAT was collected.
The 1st link "Download VAT receipt" shows you the order invoice with
this statement:
"VAT has been collected sufficiently under the IOSS mechanism."
Every invoice has this statement. It has no connection to the shipping carrier.
The 2nd link "IOSS number" shows the attached text. Did your buyer do
this? I don't think they did, which is why you were charged twice.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 16:43 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, zorbanj writes:
| | In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| |
| | | | seller was very cooperative, but says he did everything correctly, also has the
VAT invoiuce which says IOSS was enterered correctly.
So someone messed up, but I can only get vat back from BL. And VAT is no one's
profit or revenue, so there should be no issue sending it back me. Its just one
big confusing dark hole and I dont know who or where to turn to get my VAT back
|
|
Thanks, seller says they never had an issue sending to the EU. He showed me this
|
See attached. This is shown to a seller for any order where VAT was collected.
The 1st link "Download VAT receipt" shows you the order invoice with
this statement:
"VAT has been collected sufficiently under the IOSS mechanism."
Every invoice has this statement. It has no connection to the shipping carrier.
The 2nd link "IOSS number" shows the attached text. Did your buyer do
this? I don't think they did, which is why you were charged twice.
|
These are instructions for the SELLER.
As it explains, the IOSS number must be submitted electronically by the shipping
company. That information is provided by the seller when preparing the shipping
label.
So yes, the Seller made an error by not submitting that number correctly.
That does not change the fact the BrickLink is the party holding the funds and
the only party able to refund.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:22 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, zorbanj writes:
| | Attached is a screenshot of shipping information I must fill out for an international
shipping label. The black box is where the Bricklink IOSS number must be entered.
If the number is not entered, the buyer will probably be charged VAT again. It
doesn't matter if there's a VAT invoice included in the package or if
I write in the IOSS number on the label by hand.
Yes, this is for US shipping but the idea is the same. If your seller didn't
enter the IOSS number electronically then that is the reason you were charged
VAT again. If the seller is unable to enter the IOSS number electronically they
shouldn't be selling to EU buyers.
So again, you must get the original VAT back from the seller. If you feel bad
ask for half of it back, but you aren't going to be refunded by Bricklink
or your country. If the seller did in fact complete the shipping label correctly
and there was a glitch they will have to pay you and then take it up with their
post office.
In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| |
seller was very cooperative, but says he did everything correctly, also has the
VAT invoiuce which says IOSS was enterered correctly.
So someone messed up, but I can only get vat back from BL. And VAT is no one's
profit or revenue, so there should be no issue sending it back me. Its just one
big confusing dark hole and I dont know who or where to turn to get my VAT back
|
|
Even when the seller makes an error, the seller is not the one who can correct
the mistake because he does not hold the money.
BrickLink holds the money. BrickLink can refund, and in turn does not have to
pay those taxes. The net result for BrickLink is 0 (+ takes, - taxes), they only
pay for the labour involved. This is how the system was designed, and this is
how BrickLink shoudl comply.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:30 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| - BrickLink collects the tax (1)
- Buyer pays the tax
- Customs does not receive that electronic number, so they collect the tax again
(2)
- Buyer has to pay tax again, with an additional administrative fee
- BrickLink does not know that taxes were already paid, so BrickLink transfers
the tax amount. The customs office now has received payment 1 and 2.
- If the seller refunds, he is out of money without possibility of being reimbursed.
- Then the buyer gets a refund, pays taxes only once but could be out of the
extra fee.
- BrickLink is has paid the taxes, so they are at 0. BrickLink is the only party
who can claim back the second payment to customs, but they don't have a system
to do this.
- Customs office remains with the double paid tax unclaimed.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:45 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, WoutR writes:
| | […]
- BrickLink is has paid the taxes, so they are at 0. BrickLink is the only party
who can claim back the second payment to customs, but they don't have a system
to do this.
|
To be precise: BL can’t reclaim the second payment as BL was not a party to that
payment, but they absolutely can “reclaim” the first one.
If it wasn’t already remitted to the tax office, they can simply write it off
(mark the order as not-VATed).
If it was already remitted, they can deduct the VAT from their next remittance.
What BL is lacking is a system for the buyer to make a claim.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:53 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | What BL is lacking is a system for the buyer to make a claim.
|
BL is the biggest Lego marketplace in the world. Millions and millions of orders.
Owned by Lego. It is beyond belief that they cannot manage this properly.
Ebay or Amazon wouldnt get away with this, never. There would be outrage on a
massive scale.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 13:47 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | In Taxes, SylvainLS writes:
| | What BL is lacking is a system for the buyer to make a claim.
|
BL is the biggest Lego marketplace in the world. Millions and millions of orders.
Owned by Lego. It is beyond belief that they cannot manage this properly.
|
Biggest marketplace only selling Lego, but sure there are other marketplaces
that sell more Lego than all of us. Total Bricklink yearly orders are 2 to 3
million, for example Amazon ships approximately 1.6 million packages a day.
| |
Ebay or Amazon wouldnt get away with this, never. There would be outrage on a
massive scale.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BrickDeals | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 14:30 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, WoutR writes:
| | - BrickLink collects the tax (1)
- Buyer pays the tax
- Customs does not receive that electronic number, so they collect the tax again
(2)
- Buyer has to pay tax again, with an additional administrative fee
- BrickLink does not know that taxes were already paid, so BrickLink transfers
the tax amount. The customs office now has received payment 1 and 2.
- If the seller refunds, he is out of money without possibility of being reimbursed.
- Then the buyer gets a refund, pays taxes only once but could be out of the
extra fee.
- BrickLink is has paid the taxes, so they are at 0. BrickLink is the only party
who can claim back the second payment to customs, but they don't have a system
to do this.
- Customs office remains with the double paid tax unclaimed.
|
The tax issues are a serious problem on this marketplace that LEGO refuses to
address.
I would like to know what third party (the name of the organization) is actually
collecting and remitting sales tax, since BL does not do it themselves.
This would actually be the entity to contact.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:25 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, zorbanj writes:
| | […]
Yes, this is for US shipping but the idea is the same. If your seller didn't
enter the IOSS number electronically then that is the reason you were charged
VAT again. If the seller is unable to enter the IOSS number electronically they
shouldn't be selling to EU buyers.
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Why the buyer was charged again is of no matter.
| | So again, you must get the original VAT back from the seller.
|
No.
| | If you feel bad
ask for half of it back, but you aren't going to be refunded by Bricklink
or your country.
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BL should refund. They are the only ones who can (as Customs can’t do no wrong).
| | If the seller did in fact complete the shipping label correctly
and there was a glitch they will have to pay you and then take it up with their
post office.
|
Even more wrong. The seller never had the VAT money. Their post office never
had the VAT money and it may not be the sender’s postal services who did wrong,
it may be the recipient’s postal services.
Once again, there’s a simple solution, proposed by the EU VAT Group, approved
by the EU Commission, and this solution is that BL refunds the first VAT to the
buyer and reflects that in their accounts.
Asking the seller to refund, even if they are the ones who made the mistake (which
is not clear), is wrong, morally and technically.
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Mr_Rofl | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 11:56 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system. They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller. In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back? I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
|
If I can remember correctly you can read Dutch.
I think Dutch tax authorities (belastingdienst) are quite clear about this situation.
They even give an example which can apply to Lego and your situation as well.
https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/internetaankopen/content/ik-moet-te-veel-invoerrechten-betalen-voor-mijn-pakket-uit-het-buitenland-wat-kan-ik-doen
I`m not aware if such helpful pages do exist for Irish citizens, but since it
is also EU the same rules might apply for you as well.
And yes I stand with you, BrickLink should address those problems and acknowledge
the problems and the recommendations from the EU. But even if they handle this
situation correctly for the future it does not help your case for now.
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Feb 4, 2024 12:21 | | Subject: | Re: How do I get my double paid VAT back?? | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
|
| In Taxes, Mr_Rofl writes:
| | In Taxes, Poncke writes:
| | I have paid VAT at time of purchase, then my local postal service collected VAT
again, because the IOSS number was not correctly entered on the system. They
confirmed this to me in an email. They also told me to get the VAT back from
the seller. In this case Bricklink collected the VAT. I have logged a ticket
with BL, but that has gone into a dark hole.
I am willing to die on this hill. So how do I get my VAT back? I can log a claim
with PayPAl to get my VAT back, I doubt this will work. And I can file a chargeback
with my Bank. Other ideas?
But I will move heaven and earth to sort this out. And Bricklink have a responsibility
here to support me with this. The seller's hands are tied as well.
|
If I can remember correctly you can read Dutch.
I think Dutch tax authorities (belastingdienst) are quite clear about this situation.
They even give an example which can apply to Lego and your situation as well.
https://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/nl/internetaankopen/content/ik-moet-te-veel-invoerrechten-betalen-voor-mijn-pakket-uit-het-buitenland-wat-kan-ik-doen
I`m not aware if such helpful pages do exist for Irish citizens, but since it
is also EU the same rules might apply for you as well.
And yes I stand with you, BrickLink should address those problems and acknowledge
the problems and the recommendations from the EU. But even if they handle this
situation correctly for the future it does not help your case for now.
|
Interessant en bedankt. Ik ga het proberen terug te krijgen bij de Ierse douane.
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Ireland, Meath
United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
Australia, Queensland
USA, Illinois
Canada, British Columbia
Norway
)
)
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
