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| | | Author: | Ddriver  | | Posted: | Aug 4, 2023 12:57 | | Subject: | Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 152 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| Why is it so difficult to fill in the CN22 declaration correctly and time and
again sellers are stubborn or too convenient by always declaring the full final
amount instead of just the actual value of the goods excluding shipping costs
or Paypal fees.
Customs here in Switzerland and elsewhere (as it is a uniform EU law) will take
the actual value of the goods and add to that the barcode where the shipping
costs are included.
In Switzerland, the exemption limit is CHF 65.- including shipping costs.
If a seller now for example takes goods value 50.- plus shipping costs 6.- &
Paypal fees 4.- together results in 60.-
Customs then takes the 60.- and adds the 6.- to calculate the customs duty and
VAT of 66.- and thus an additional 35.- VAT & customs duty & handling fees and
this only because the seller fills out the CN22 incorrectly.
Unbelievable but true.
It would be very helpful to formulate a clear regulation at BrickLink so that
everyone does it equally and, above all, correctly according to the law.
Best regards Daniel and stay healthy.
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| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 4, 2023 14:56 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| | | It would be very helpful to formulate a clear regulation at BrickLink so that
everyone does it equally and, above all, correctly according to the law.
|
Some make unintentional mistakes in declarations.
Erors may happen.
Simply write the seller and eventually don't buy at this place again.
We don't need this extra regulation.
On the other side, this isn't probably legal:
Shipping risk:
In general I'm shipping NO tracking, it's on buyers risk!
NO Refund of costs if goods are lost on mailing route.
I can not take responsibility for the condition of the goods received.
If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers the goods to you.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Ddriver | | Posted: | Aug 4, 2023 15:38 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | It would be very helpful to formulate a clear regulation at BrickLink so that
everyone does it equally and, above all, correctly according to the law.
|
Some make unintentional mistakes in declarations.
Erors may happen.
Simply write the seller and eventually don't buy at this place again.
We don't need this extra regulation.
On the other side, this isn't probably legal:
Shipping risk:
In general I'm shipping NO tracking, it's on buyers risk!
NO Refund of costs if goods are lost on mailing route.
I can not take responsibility for the condition of the goods received.
If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers the goods to you.
|
Hi,
I did and the answer was:
"I always take the full amount including shipping and all fees. It says so
in my terms and conditions of the shop".
As if everything in the terms and conditions of the shops in Bricklink is legal.
There is simply no answer to the request to cancel the order.
This is not the first time from certain european country people have behaved
like this, unfortunately and will stay away from dealers from this specific country.
Best regards Daniel & stay healthy.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Aug 4, 2023 15:59 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
|
| In Problem, Ddriver writes:
| | In Problem, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | It would be very helpful to formulate a clear regulation at BrickLink so that
everyone does it equally and, above all, correctly according to the law.
|
Some make unintentional mistakes in declarations.
Erors may happen.
Simply write the seller and eventually don't buy at this place again.
We don't need this extra regulation.
On the other side, this isn't probably legal:
Shipping risk:
In general I'm shipping NO tracking, it's on buyers risk!
NO Refund of costs if goods are lost on mailing route.
I can not take responsibility for the condition of the goods received.
If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers the goods to you.
|
Hi,
I did and the answer was:
"I always take the full amount including shipping and all fees. It says so
in my terms and conditions of the shop".
As if everything in the terms and conditions of the shops in Bricklink is legal.
There is simply no answer to the request to cancel the order.
This is not the first time from certain european country people have behaved
like this, unfortunately and will stay away from dealers from this specific country.
Best regards Daniel & stay healthy.
|
The only information I can see relating to the Customs fees is here in the Help
Center link at the bottom of every BrickLink page:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2491&q=fees
Since BrickLink doesn't get involved in the calculation of fees for Customs
and Import Duty you may be out of luck trying to get anything done about it.
It would best for you to examine the store Terms and Conditions before buying
from someone, and at every step of the Checkout process where applicable fees
should be shown. It would also benefit you to be familiar with the Customs and
Import Duty regulations of your country so you can adjust your shopping cart
to stay under the limit.
Otherwise, you're going to get hit with the occasional extra fee for Customs
and Import Duty and will have to put up with paying it.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Ddriver | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 02:48 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
|
| In Problem, ghyde writes:
| | In Problem, Ddriver writes:
| | In Problem, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | It would be very helpful to formulate a clear regulation at BrickLink so that
everyone does it equally and, above all, correctly according to the law.
|
Some make unintentional mistakes in declarations.
Erors may happen.
Simply write the seller and eventually don't buy at this place again.
We don't need this extra regulation.
On the other side, this isn't probably legal:
Shipping risk:
In general I'm shipping NO tracking, it's on buyers risk!
NO Refund of costs if goods are lost on mailing route.
I can not take responsibility for the condition of the goods received.
If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers the goods to you.
|
Hi,
I did and the answer was:
"I always take the full amount including shipping and all fees. It says so
in my terms and conditions of the shop".
As if everything in the terms and conditions of the shops in Bricklink is legal.
There is simply no answer to the request to cancel the order.
This is not the first time from certain european country people have behaved
like this, unfortunately and will stay away from dealers from this specific country.
Best regards Daniel & stay healthy.
|
The only information I can see relating to the Customs fees is here in the Help
Center link at the bottom of every BrickLink page:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2491&q=fees
Since BrickLink doesn't get involved in the calculation of fees for Customs
and Import Duty you may be out of luck trying to get anything done about it.
It would best for you to examine the store Terms and Conditions before buying
from someone, and at every step of the Checkout process where applicable fees
should be shown. It would also benefit you to be familiar with the Customs and
Import Duty regulations of your country so you can adjust your shopping cart
to stay under the limit.
Otherwise, you're going to get hit with the occasional extra fee for Customs
and Import Duty and will have to put up with paying it.
Cheers ...
ghyde
|
No one can agree with this if it is 100% illegal in the Terms.
Even a seller has a duty of care and a duty to tell the truth and has to abide
by the law.
I have already been asked whether I could state the value of the goods from 300.-
to 3.- on the CN22 document and first had to make it clear to the buyer that
I respect the law and will not give false information.
Best regards Daniel and stay healthy.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 16:17 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
|
| In Problem, Ddriver writes:
| | In Problem, ghyde writes:
| | In Problem, Ddriver writes:
| | In Problem, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | It would be very helpful to formulate a clear regulation at BrickLink so that
everyone does it equally and, above all, correctly according to the law.
|
Some make unintentional mistakes in declarations.
Erors may happen.
Simply write the seller and eventually don't buy at this place again.
We don't need this extra regulation.
On the other side, this isn't probably legal:
Shipping risk:
In general I'm shipping NO tracking, it's on buyers risk!
NO Refund of costs if goods are lost on mailing route.
I can not take responsibility for the condition of the goods received.
If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers the goods to you.
|
Hi,
I did and the answer was:
"I always take the full amount including shipping and all fees. It says so
in my terms and conditions of the shop".
As if everything in the terms and conditions of the shops in Bricklink is legal.
There is simply no answer to the request to cancel the order.
This is not the first time from certain european country people have behaved
like this, unfortunately and will stay away from dealers from this specific country.
Best regards Daniel & stay healthy.
|
The only information I can see relating to the Customs fees is here in the Help
Center link at the bottom of every BrickLink page:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2491&q=fees
Since BrickLink doesn't get involved in the calculation of fees for Customs
and Import Duty you may be out of luck trying to get anything done about it.
It would best for you to examine the store Terms and Conditions before buying
from someone, and at every step of the Checkout process where applicable fees
should be shown. It would also benefit you to be familiar with the Customs and
Import Duty regulations of your country so you can adjust your shopping cart
to stay under the limit.
Otherwise, you're going to get hit with the occasional extra fee for Customs
and Import Duty and will have to put up with paying it.
Cheers ...
ghyde
|
No one can agree with this if it is 100% illegal in the Terms.
Even a seller has a duty of care and a duty to tell the truth and has to abide
by the law.
I have already been asked whether I could state the value of the goods from 300.-
to 3.- on the CN22 document and first had to make it clear to the buyer that
I respect the law and will not give false information.
Best regards Daniel and stay healthy.
|
Which law are you referring to? The EU law? The advisory given by BrickLink,
which, by the way is not a law, it's an advisory, or some other law?
If you went to the authorities and complained to them about this person not correctly
stating the Customs fees, would they do anything about it? Would it even be worth
the time and effort needed to go and do that?
Do authorities in the country you reside in have a limit on how much an error
costs you before they consider it something they have to do about it?
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 16:26 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, ghyde writes:
| | […]
Which law are you referring to? The EU law? The advisory given by BrickLink,
which, by the way is not a law, it's an advisory, or some other law?
|
Well, Switzerland is not in EU (hence the need for a CN22) and the agreements
that govern customs declarations (and CN22 / CN23) are WTO agreements.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 17:53 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 19:48 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | Well, Switzerland is not in EU (hence the need for a CN22) and the agreements
that govern customs declarations (and CN22 / CN23) are WTO agreements.
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[moderated]?
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Language, please!
WTO = World Trade Organisation
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 21:57 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| | | | | | | Well, Switzerland is not in EU (hence the need for a CN22) and the agreements
that govern customs declarations (and CN22 / CN23) are WTO agreements.
|
[moderated]?
|
Language, please!
WTO = World Trade Organisation
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I'm sure you can mean something dirty with "WTO", so don't blame
me for another acronym.
Next time please use OMC, it'll be easier to understand.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2023 09:44 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
I'm sure you can mean something dirty with "WTO", so don't blame
me for another acronym.
|
That argument is ridiculous and you know it.
The criterion is not whether one can devise alternate definitions for acronyms,
it’s whether an acronym is commonly known to stand for vulgarity and was used
as such.
And 16.4 of the ToS: “This includes replacing offensive words with alternate
letters or characters […].”
| | Next time please use OMC, it'll be easier to understand.
|
Well, when I write in English, I use the English name. Maybe I’ll use GATT next
time? After all, the WTO is only 30 years old 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 17:55 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
|
| | | Even a seller has a duty of care and a duty to tell the truth and has to abide
by the law.
|
So, what about those Terms?
Shipping risk:
In general I'm shipping NO tracking, it's on buyers risk!
NO Refund of costs if goods are lost on mailing route.
I can not take responsibility for the condition of the goods received.
If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers the goods to you.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TheBrickGuys | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 20:12 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | Even a seller has a duty of care and a duty to tell the truth and has to abide
by the law.
|
So, what about those Terms?
Shipping risk:
In general I'm shipping NO tracking, it's on buyers risk!
NO Refund of costs if goods are lost on mailing route.
I can not take responsibility for the condition of the goods received.
If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers the goods to you.
|
I like the line, "If you are not satisfied, contact your supplier who delivers
the goods to you". I like the way he refers to the postal service as "your
supplier" yet he is the one who pays the postal service and drops the package
off there. I hate stores that try to pass the buck like that so that they can
think that they dont need to take ANY responsibility for a lost or damaged order.
Jim.
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| | | | | Author: | 129samot | | Posted: | Aug 4, 2023 16:52 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| | from what I know shipping costs are included in declared value |
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 4, 2023 17:36 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, 129samot writes:
| | from what I know shipping costs are included in declared value
|
The value doesn’t include shipping because it’s used to assess duty (not import
VAT) and duty depends on the nature of the goods and is only on goods, not services¹.
Besides, the “value” column should be filled for every item (like when you send
multiple sets in one package). How you could distribute the shipping costs on
the items? By weight? By value? Put everything on the first line and nothing
on the other lines? On a line of its own?
Nonsensical.
You aren’t importing the shipping, it’s not in the box because it’s not goods,
it’s a service.
What happens with shipping though is that VAT is due on it (VAT taxes both goods
and services)
To take the same example as OP:
— value is 54¹,
— duty is calculated on 54, that’s “d” (0 for such a small value but still, for
the argument…),
— shipping is 6,
— VAT is calculated as (54 + 6 + d) x nn% = v,
— the recipient is charged d + v + a fee.
———
¹ I would say that PayPal may be a service but the fee is to be included in the
value of goods.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Ddriver | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 02:38 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Problem, 129samot writes:
| | from what I know shipping costs are included in declared value
|
The value doesn’t include shipping because it’s used to assess duty (not import
VAT) and duty depends on the nature of the goods and is only on goods, not services¹.
Besides, the “value” column should be filled for every item (like when you send
multiple sets in one package). How you could distribute the shipping costs on
the items? By weight? By value? Put everything on the first line and nothing
on the other lines? On a line of its own?
Nonsensical.
You aren’t importing the shipping, it’s not in the box because it’s not goods,
it’s a service.
What happens with shipping though is that VAT is due on it (VAT taxes both goods
and services)
To take the same example as OP:
— value is 54¹,
— duty is calculated on 54, that’s “d” (0 for such a small value but still, for
the argument…),
— shipping is 6,
— VAT is calculated as (54 + 6 + d) x nn% = v,
— the recipient is charged d + v + a fee.
———
¹ I would say that PayPal may be a service but the fee is to be included in the
value of goods.
|
This is described absolutely correctly and is also written down in the law.
The fact that the Paypal fees are included is not a commodity for me either,
but at worst I could live with it.
I always make sure (as far as it can be prevented) that I keep the total value
(value of goods & shipping costs) below CHF 63, so that I don't have to pay
customs & VAT & fees.
Exemption limit (by post) Abroad - Switzerland Value of goods & shipping costs
65.- x 7.7% = 5.- (threshold limit)
Exemption limit (personal) Abroad - Switzerland Value of goods (without foreign
VAT) 300.- / person
Best regards Daniel and stay healthy.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 129samot | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 08:30 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| | How do customs know the shipping cost? |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 09:56 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, 129samot writes:
| | How do customs know the shipping cost?
|
The CN22 form is only meant to show the value of the package contents.
If postage costs or other accounting is required, different documents such as
an invoice or VAT form may be needed depending on the country in question.
~Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 10:09 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
|
| In Problem, jennnifer writes:
| | In Problem, 129samot writes:
| | How do customs know the shipping cost?
|
The CN22 form is only meant to show the value of the package contents.
If postage costs or other accounting is required, different documents such as
an invoice or VAT form may be needed depending on the country in question.
~Jen
|
Indeed, if/when customs need to know the shipping cost, they’ll use the attached
invoice.
It may also simply be on the package (especially if the sender used stamps).
Or they’ll “know” or “guess” the shipping (the same way they do for the goods
if values are missing or if they think something is wrong).
It’s just how it is / how the WTO agreements made it. The CN22 doesn’t have
a field for shipping cost, the CN23 does. *gallic shrug*
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| | | | | | | Author: | Ddriver | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2023 02:29 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, 129samot writes:
| | from what I know shipping costs are included in declared value
|
Incorrect.
Best regards Daniel and stay healthy.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Erikmax | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2023 05:04 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
|
| In Problem, Ddriver writes:
| | In Problem, 129samot writes:
| | from what I know shipping costs are included in declared value
|
Incorrect.
Best regards Daniel and stay healthy.
|
I allways exclude shipping costs from the CN22 formular. However, when I ship
goods to the UK all other costs are added up to the value by Bricklink and the
VAT is calculated for the total. Sorry I did not check the whole thread for this,
but this brings uo the question to me: Is this correct?
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 17, 2023 11:05 | | Subject: | Re: Problem CN22 custom declare | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Problem | |
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| In Problem, Erikmax writes:
| | […]
I allways exclude shipping costs from the CN22 formular. However, when I ship
goods to the UK all other costs are added up to the value by Bricklink and the
VAT is calculated for the total. Sorry I did not check the whole thread for this,
but this brings uo the question to me: Is this correct?
|
Yes.
Duties are due on the product only. Import VAT is due on the grand total.
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Switzerland, Bern
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
Australia, Queensland
USA, California
Luxembourg
Netherlands, Zuid-Holland