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| | | Author: | Munotbrick  | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 06:39 | | Subject: | Threats | | Viewed: | 289 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
I told him he can either send me the porto (what is high) and i send it back
and he sends me the correct minifig (what would be about 10 Euro + labor) or
he can send me just 10 euro and be done with the topic.
He refused. He wanted only to refund the difference between the cost of the minifig
he send me and the one i actually ordered. I explained him, that i would not
have ordered this minifig and i have no use for it, so either i send it back
on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund.
It's just about 3 Euros actually. But i really don't like people that
don't full refund for their mistakes. Mistakes can happen!
As an answer, he told me again that he will just refund me the difference between
the delivered minifig and the minifig i ordered.
In the same message, he started to talk about that he checked out my website
and stuff, and starts threatening me with "abmahnungen". Thats some german
term were they report you for anything wrongdoing (like not having an impressum,
not beeing registered at the right place) and that this will cost me up to 2500
euro.
In the end, i'm not really threatend. I checked my legal obligations and
they are all fine (he probably just missed the links to impressum and data-security
in the footer).
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
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| | | | | Author: | brac.brick | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 07:42 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
|
If you didn't receive what you ordered, if you paid by Paypal, you can open
a dispute because you didn't receive what was ordered nor did you get a refund.
Go to your Paypal account and click on Help, there is information on how to open
a case.
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| | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 09:26 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
I told him he can either send me the porto (what is high) and i send it back
and he sends me the correct minifig (what would be about 10 Euro + labor) or
he can send me just 10 euro and be done with the topic.
He refused. He wanted only to refund the difference between the cost of the minifig
he send me and the one i actually ordered. I explained him, that i would not
have ordered this minifig and i have no use for it, so either i send it back
on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund.
It's just about 3 Euros actually. But i really don't like people that
don't full refund for their mistakes. Mistakes can happen!
As an answer, he told me again that he will just refund me the difference between
the delivered minifig and the minifig i ordered.
In the same message, he started to talk about that he checked out my website
and stuff, and starts threatening me with "abmahnungen". Thats some german
term were they report you for anything wrongdoing (like not having an impressum,
not beeing registered at the right place) and that this will cost me up to 2500
euro.
In the end, i'm not really threatend. I checked my legal obligations and
they are all fine (he probably just missed the links to impressum and data-security
in the footer).
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
|
opened a can of worms it seems..
if you are not happy with what you received, you should return it for a refund.
seller is not required to pay for the return postage.
your ultimatum presented to the seller is " so either i send it back
| | on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund. "
|
you send it back at your cost for a refund.
paypal might require you to prove he sent you the wrong minifig, but before any
paypal refund can be processed, you are required to return the merchandise you
received.
it's not some windfall for you where you get a free minifigure ( or the
cost of) out of the deal, like your ultimatum describes.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 09:38 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | […]
seller is not required to pay for the return postage. […]
|
Depends.
EU consumer laws say they are in many cases.
Actually, EU consumer law say: if you receive something that you didn’t order,
and the seller doesn’t want it back (doesn’t pay for the return), you can keep
it without paying it.
This is not a “I don’t want it anymore” return, it’s a “I didn’t order that”
return.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Stuart9 | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 09:41 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| My problem with a buyer having to pay return shipping is that the seller apparently
sent the wrong figure.
If the buyer has to pay return shipping they are losing out through no fault
of their own, return, yes but seller who made the mistake pays return shipping.
Buyer ordering wrong item and wants to return then buyer pays return shipping.
It would allow any unscrupulous seller to send an incorrect item deliberately
and put the buyer in a position that makes them reluctantly accept it as it’s
not financially viable to return the item.
In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
I told him he can either send me the porto (what is high) and i send it back
and he sends me the correct minifig (what would be about 10 Euro + labor) or
he can send me just 10 euro and be done with the topic.
He refused. He wanted only to refund the difference between the cost of the minifig
he send me and the one i actually ordered. I explained him, that i would not
have ordered this minifig and i have no use for it, so either i send it back
on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund.
It's just about 3 Euros actually. But i really don't like people that
don't full refund for their mistakes. Mistakes can happen!
As an answer, he told me again that he will just refund me the difference between
the delivered minifig and the minifig i ordered.
In the same message, he started to talk about that he checked out my website
and stuff, and starts threatening me with "abmahnungen". Thats some german
term were they report you for anything wrongdoing (like not having an impressum,
not beeing registered at the right place) and that this will cost me up to 2500
euro.
In the end, i'm not really threatend. I checked my legal obligations and
they are all fine (he probably just missed the links to impressum and data-security
in the footer).
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
|
opened a can of worms it seems..
if you are not happy with what you received, you should return it for a refund.
seller is not required to pay for the return postage.
your ultimatum presented to the seller is " so either i send it back
| | on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund. "
|
you send it back at your cost for a refund.
paypal might require you to prove he sent you the wrong minifig, but before any
paypal refund can be processed, you are required to return the merchandise you
received.
it's not some windfall for you where you get a free minifigure ( or the
cost of) out of the deal, like your ultimatum describes.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Munotbrick | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 09:54 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
I told him he can either send me the porto (what is high) and i send it back
and he sends me the correct minifig (what would be about 10 Euro + labor) or
he can send me just 10 euro and be done with the topic.
He refused. He wanted only to refund the difference between the cost of the minifig
he send me and the one i actually ordered. I explained him, that i would not
have ordered this minifig and i have no use for it, so either i send it back
on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund.
It's just about 3 Euros actually. But i really don't like people that
don't full refund for their mistakes. Mistakes can happen!
As an answer, he told me again that he will just refund me the difference between
the delivered minifig and the minifig i ordered.
In the same message, he started to talk about that he checked out my website
and stuff, and starts threatening me with "abmahnungen". Thats some german
term were they report you for anything wrongdoing (like not having an impressum,
not beeing registered at the right place) and that this will cost me up to 2500
euro.
In the end, i'm not really threatend. I checked my legal obligations and
they are all fine (he probably just missed the links to impressum and data-security
in the footer).
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
|
opened a can of worms it seems..
if you are not happy with what you received, you should return it for a refund.
seller is not required to pay for the return postage.
your ultimatum presented to the seller is " so either i send it back
| | on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund. "
|
you send it back at your cost for a refund.
paypal might require you to prove he sent you the wrong minifig, but before any
paypal refund can be processed, you are required to return the merchandise you
received.
it's not some windfall for you where you get a free minifigure ( or the
cost of) out of the deal, like your ultimatum describes.
|
Why would i need to pay shipping cost from switzerland to germany (4,10 Euro)
for a mistake of the seller that sends me the wrong product instead of the one
i ordered? That would mean i have to pay additionally 4,10 Euro out of my pocket
for a fault of the seller. That seems weird.
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 12:33 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 87 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
I told him he can either send me the porto (what is high) and i send it back
and he sends me the correct minifig (what would be about 10 Euro + labor) or
he can send me just 10 euro and be done with the topic.
He refused. He wanted only to refund the difference between the cost of the minifig
he send me and the one i actually ordered. I explained him, that i would not
have ordered this minifig and i have no use for it, so either i send it back
on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund.
It's just about 3 Euros actually. But i really don't like people that
don't full refund for their mistakes. Mistakes can happen!
As an answer, he told me again that he will just refund me the difference between
the delivered minifig and the minifig i ordered.
In the same message, he started to talk about that he checked out my website
and stuff, and starts threatening me with "abmahnungen". Thats some german
term were they report you for anything wrongdoing (like not having an impressum,
not beeing registered at the right place) and that this will cost me up to 2500
euro.
In the end, i'm not really threatend. I checked my legal obligations and
they are all fine (he probably just missed the links to impressum and data-security
in the footer).
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
|
opened a can of worms it seems..
if you are not happy with what you received, you should return it for a refund.
seller is not required to pay for the return postage.
your ultimatum presented to the seller is " so either i send it back
| | on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund. "
|
you send it back at your cost for a refund.
paypal might require you to prove he sent you the wrong minifig, but before any
paypal refund can be processed, you are required to return the merchandise you
received.
it's not some windfall for you where you get a free minifigure ( or the
cost of) out of the deal, like your ultimatum describes.
|
Why would i need to pay shipping cost from switzerland to germany (4,10 Euro)
for a mistake of the seller that sends me the wrong product instead of the one
i ordered? That would mean i have to pay additionally 4,10 Euro out of my pocket
for a fault of the seller. That seems weird.
|
you do not get to keep what you received & get a full refund.
welcome to Civilized Society
what you describe sounds like extortion. you started off the conversation with
the seller by issuing him an ultimatum, thus threatening him by saying "you
either do this or i keep what i received & you have to refund".
his response seems fitting for how you describe your initial interaction with
him. try a different route.
check his return policy , but if paypal was the payment processor, 99% sure you
will have to pay to return the merchadise for a refund. check their policy as
well
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 12:46 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| |
welcome to Civilized Society
what you describe sounds like extortion. you started off the conversation with
the seller by issuing him an ultimatum, thus threatening him by saying "you
either do this or i keep what i received & you have to refund".
his response seems fitting for how you describe your initial interaction with
him. try a different route.
check his return policy , but if paypal was the payment processor, 99% sure you
will have to pay to return the merchadise for a refund. check their policy as
well
|
You are way off base here. Extortion? Threats? Really?
If a seller sends you the wrong item and wants it returned, they absolutely pay
for the return shipping.
~Jen
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:08 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, jennnifer writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| |
welcome to Civilized Society
what you describe sounds like extortion. you started off the conversation with
the seller by issuing him an ultimatum, thus threatening him by saying "you
either do this or i keep what i received & you have to refund".
his response seems fitting for how you describe your initial interaction with
him. try a different route.
check his return policy , but if paypal was the payment processor, 99% sure you
will have to pay to return the merchadise for a refund. check their policy as
well
|
You are way off base here. Extortion? Threats? Really?
If a seller sends you the wrong item and wants it returned, they absolutely pay
for the return shipping.
~Jen
|
it's a simple return to sender in the same package using same tracking #
or buyer pays to return what was received.
ask paypal.
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TallyToyBricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:17 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| | | it's a simple return to sender in the same package using same tracking #
or buyer pays to return what was received.
ask paypal.
|
This is simply FALSE.
If the seller sends the wrong item, PayPal will require the seller to cover the
cost of return shipping.
As others have pointed out, the consumer protection rules in Europe are pro-consumer.
There is not threat or extortion.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:29 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, TallyToyBricks writes:
| | | | it's a simple return to sender in the same package using same tracking #
or buyer pays to return what was received.
ask paypal.
|
This is simply FALSE.
If the seller sends the wrong item, PayPal will require the seller to cover the
cost of return shipping.
As others have pointed out, the consumer protection rules in Europe are pro-consumer.
There is not threat or extortion.
|
then why is the buyer here complaining about it...?
any ultimatuum issued is extortion.
why is this so hard for so many of you to comprehend.
extort
verb
ex·tort ik-ˈstȯrt
extorted; extorting; extorts
Synonyms of extort
transitive verb
: to obtain from a person by force
buyer's ultimatum:
"pay the return shipping fees or else i will keep what i received & force
you to give me a refund."
do this or else i'll force you
buyer could have simply quoted the buer protection law to the seller informing
him of any obligations but seller would already know them, so that would be pointless...
but issuing the ultimatum is trying to obtain something by force. in this case
it is a refund.
if seller does not comply with buyers demands, buyer will force them to comply.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:21 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | […]
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
|
With that definition, sellers are “extorting” money from their buyers….
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:32 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | […]
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
|
With that definition, sellers are “extorting” money from their buyers….
|
sellers have zero control over my buyers making ppurchases & paying for items.
what are you talking about...?
feel free to explain how a self-checkout, buyer pays with paypal situation where
the seller is forcing the buyer to pay anything.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 18:17 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | […]
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
|
With that definition, sellers are “extorting” money from their buyers….
|
sellers have zero control over my buyers making ppurchases & paying for items.
what are you talking about...?
feel free to explain how a self-checkout, buyer pays with paypal situation where
the seller is forcing the buyer to pay anything.
|
You cannot read between the lines of Sylvain? It is called humor, maybe not funny
for all of us but in any case it is not serious (although you can never be too
sure with both Sylvains, must me something in their names or maybe just because
they are French).
However did you get positive feedback only?
After reading your comments, and yes we do live in a democracy and you are free
to say what you want, I would never buy from you, maybe your feedbacks are positive
only due to…(no, I am not writing it).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 18:20 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, tonnic writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | […]
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
|
With that definition, sellers are “extorting” money from their buyers….
|
sellers have zero control over my buyers making ppurchases & paying for items.
what are you talking about...?
feel free to explain how a self-checkout, buyer pays with paypal situation where
the seller is forcing the buyer to pay anything.
|
You cannot read between the lines of Sylvain? It is called humor, maybe not funny
for all of us but in any case it is not serious (although you can never be too
sure with both Sylvains, must me something in their names or maybe just because
they are French).
However did you get positive feedback only?
After reading your comments, and yes we do live in a democracy and you are free
to say what you want, I would never buy from you, maybe your feedbacks are positive
only due to…(no, I am not writing it).
|
we are USA only, you can't buy from us anyways...
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 18:23 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, tonnic writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | […]
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
|
With that definition, sellers are “extorting” money from their buyers….
|
sellers have zero control over my buyers making ppurchases & paying for items.
what are you talking about...?
feel free to explain how a self-checkout, buyer pays with paypal situation where
the seller is forcing the buyer to pay anything.
|
You cannot read between the lines of Sylvain? It is called humor, maybe not funny
for all of us but in any case it is not serious (although you can never be too
sure with both Sylvains, must me something in their names or maybe just because
they are French).
However did you get positive feedback only?
After reading your comments, and yes we do live in a democracy and you are free
to say what you want, I would never buy from you, maybe your feedbacks are positive
only due to…(no, I am not writing it).
|
we are USA only, you can't buy from us anyways...
|
Lucky me.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 18:50 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, tonnic writes:
everyone is all wound up because i know what PayPal will say.
here , let's ask the PayPal Community the exact same question:
-- https://www.paypal-community.com/t5/About-Protections/Ordered-a-item-and-was-sent-the-wrong-item-after-payment/td-p/1243482
Ordered a item and was sent the wrong item after payment
Whac-A-Mole Frequent Advisor
Frequent Advisor
Jun-20-2017 09:28 AM
"Is the seller overseas?
then you have to pay return shipping with tracking."
DPCreations Frequent Advisor
Frequent Advisor
Jun-20-2017 02:31 PM
"all that matters to PayPal is the invoice and the details on the
invoice.
PayPal policies apply. Buyer pays return shipping in case of a not as described
case"
you all are free to be all huff-n-puff about it, but that is what PayPal will
say.
stop blaming me because i am quoting PayPal.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 19:12 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | stop blaming me because i am quoting PayPal.
|
You are not quoting Paypal, you are quoting a user of Paypal. Moreover, this
case is from 2017! Moreover, this is a case of Ebay. At that time, Paypal still
belonged to Ebay and the conditions were still quite different.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 19:23 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, Dino writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | stop blaming me because i am quoting PayPal.
|
You are not quoting Paypal, you are quoting a user of Paypal. Moreover, this
case is from 2017! Moreover, this is a case of Ebay. At that time, Paypal still
belonged to Ebay and the conditions were still quite different.
|
Whac-A-Mole
Frequent Advisor
5th PayPal Anniversary
Kudos Champion
Reply Champion
+ 25
POSTS: 13183
SOLUTIONS: 323
KUDOS: 1075
DPCreations
Frequent Advisor
10th PayPal Anniversary
Solution Champion
+ 25
POSTS: 21343
SOLUTIONS: 755
KUDOS: 1734
..... *facepalm...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 19:30 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, Dino writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | stop blaming me because i am quoting PayPal.
|
You are not quoting Paypal, you are quoting a user of Paypal. Moreover, this
case is from 2017! Moreover, this is a case of Ebay. At that time, Paypal still
belonged to Ebay and the conditions were still quite different.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 19:52 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
There's a difference between an item that is not as described (in which case
PayPal requires that the buyer send it back) and an item that the buyer never
ordered in the first place.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 20:00 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, peregrinator writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
There's a difference between an item that is not as described (in which case
PayPal requires that the buyer send it back) and an item that the buyer never
ordered in the first place.
|
buyer placed an order with the seller , apparently, they received the wrong item
in that shipment for that order.
this isn't a 'random package arrives from unknown company with a bill
attached' scenario.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 20:22 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, peregrinator writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
There's a difference between an item that is not as described (in which case
PayPal requires that the buyer send it back) and an item that the buyer never
ordered in the first place.
|
I'm afraid you're tilting at windmills.
The ennemy's real but your effort is vain 
( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_Quixote )
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 22:19 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, Dino writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | stop blaming me because i am quoting PayPal.
|
You are not quoting Paypal, you are quoting a user of Paypal. Moreover, this
case is from 2017! Moreover, this is a case of Ebay. At that time, Paypal still
belonged to Ebay and the conditions were still quite different.
|
|
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2023 02:29 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, jennnifer writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, Dino writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | stop blaming me because i am quoting PayPal.
|
You are not quoting Paypal, you are quoting a user of Paypal. Moreover, this
case is from 2017! Moreover, this is a case of Ebay. At that time, Paypal still
belonged to Ebay and the conditions were still quite different.
|
|
https://www.paypal.com/us/webapps/mpp/paypal-safety-and-security
|
not sure what the underlined part entails, nothing mentioned is custom-made...?
but yes, buyer still has to return merchandise received for a refund at buyer's
expense if no other solution is negotiated between buyer & seller previously.
buyer does not get to keep merchandise received on an order placed that was
not the item ordered if they are requesting a refund. item has to be returned
for a refund. otherwise buyer is happy to keep item instead of getting a refund.
Example Time!!!
you buy a taco maker from wal-mart.
when you get home, you open it & inside there is a toothbrush.
you call wal-mart & explain what happened & you both laugh hysterically, wal-mart
will tell you to bring the box & toothbrush back up to the store & they will
give you a full refund.
... so you do.
you go back up to wal-mart & get a full refund & everyone is happy.
but then you realize.. Wal-Mart didn't reimburse you for the gas money you
spent to drive to wal-mart to get the refund.
you ask wal-mart to reimburse you for that gas money, but they just smile & continue
dancing......
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2023 03:04 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Yo_Yo_Flamingo | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 19:30 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | […]
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
|
With that definition, sellers are “extorting” money from their buyers….
|
How did you know!?!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 18:11 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| | In Problem Order, jennnifer writes:
| | In Problem Order, PlanetEarthToys writes:
| |
welcome to Civilized Society
what you describe sounds like extortion. you started off the conversation with
the seller by issuing him an ultimatum, thus threatening him by saying "you
either do this or i keep what i received & you have to refund".
his response seems fitting for how you describe your initial interaction with
him. try a different route.
check his return policy , but if paypal was the payment processor, 99% sure you
will have to pay to return the merchadise for a refund. check their policy as
well
|
You are way off base here. Extortion? Threats? Really?
If a seller sends you the wrong item and wants it returned, they absolutely pay
for the return shipping.
~Jen
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it's a simple return to sender in the same package using same tracking #
or buyer pays to return what was received.
ask paypal.
presenting someone with an ultimatum is extotion. regardless of where it happens
or who is issuing the ultimatum.
simple example of Extortion - "do this or else this other thing happens"
|
I think you are totally wrong and that is me saying it in a kind way.
I see others mentioned why the seller is wrong and why you are wrong but you
are too persistent in your believe.
Why should a buyer pay return shipping for something they did not order.
Sellers mistakes, sellers loss (in form of payment and/or minifig).
As a seller I would let the buyer keep the wrongly send minifig (specially looking
at the value of the minifig and also the shippingcosts of the return) and send
the right one. If I would want this minifig returned to my place I would pay
for it.
It is al about simple and good customers service.
I would even be glad the buyer mentioned it so a seller could take the wrongly
send minfig out of his or hers inventory so a potential buyer cannot order this
while the seller already shipped it to someone else.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TallyToyBricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 12:52 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| | |
you do not get to keep what you received & get a full refund.
welcome to Civilized Society
what you describe sounds like extortion. you started off the conversation with
the seller by issuing him an ultimatum, thus threatening him by saying "you
either do this or i keep what i received & you have to refund".
his response seems fitting for how you describe your initial interaction with
him. try a different route.
|
You are spreading FALSE information.
The seller sent the wrong item - the seller should pay to have the item returned
and issue a full refund. There is no other fair outcome to the buyer.
Additionally, other countries have much stronger consumer protection laws - which
would cover this situation.
I don't understand your claim of "extortion" - the buyer paid for
an item and didn't receive it. The buyer is due a full refund.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:18 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, TallyToyBricks writes:
| | | |
you do not get to keep what you received & get a full refund.
welcome to Civilized Society
what you describe sounds like extortion. you started off the conversation with
the seller by issuing him an ultimatum, thus threatening him by saying "you
either do this or i keep what i received & you have to refund".
his response seems fitting for how you describe your initial interaction with
him. try a different route.
|
You are spreading FALSE information.
The seller sent the wrong item - the seller should pay to have the item returned
and issue a full refund. There is no other fair outcome to the buyer.
Additionally, other countries have much stronger consumer protection laws - which
would cover this situation.
I don't understand your claim of "extortion" - the buyer paid for
an item and didn't receive it. The buyer is due a full refund.
|
-- "You are spreading FALSE information.
The seller sent the wrong item - the seller should pay to have
the item returned
and issue a full refund. There is no other fair outcome to the buyer.
keyword there.
seller is not required too, yeah he should to stay professional if he truely
made the mistake , but paypal won't require it. if i'm wrong , feel free
to prove me wrong, you'll get a free high-five.
buyer issued an ultimatum,
ultimatum = extortion no matter who does it or where it takes place
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TallyToyBricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:41 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| | | keyword there.
seller is not required too, yeah he should to stay professional if he truely
made the mistake , but paypal won't require it. if i'm wrong , feel free
to prove me wrong, you'll get a free high-five.
|
Again, this transaction occurred in Europe they have much stronger consumer protection
laws.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:44 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, TallyToyBricks writes:
| | | | keyword there.
seller is not required too, yeah he should to stay professional if he truely
made the mistake , but paypal won't require it. if i'm wrong , feel free
to prove me wrong, you'll get a free high-five.
|
Again, this transaction occurred in Europe they have much stronger consumer protection
laws.
|
so then why is buyer here...?
both buyer & seller are Eruopean, they should both be fluent with buying & selling
shipping.
why isn't this just an Easy-Peezy 2 minute paypal claim away from already
being solved...?
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TallyToyBricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:50 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| | |
so then why is buyer here...?
both buyer & seller are Eruopean, they should both be fluent with buying & selling
shipping.
why isn't this just an Easy-Peezy 2 minute paypal claim away from already
being solved...?
|
In Europe, most payments are not made with PayPal - they use IBAN.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:55 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, TallyToyBricks writes:
| | | |
so then why is buyer here...?
both buyer & seller are Eruopean, they should both be fluent with buying & selling
shipping.
why isn't this just an Easy-Peezy 2 minute paypal claim away from already
being solved...?
|
In Europe, most payments are not made with PayPal - they use IBAN.
|
the OP's Jul 2, 2023 09:54 response to my comment where i suggested paypal
was the payment processor was not denied or contradicted, so go figuring that
is who it was.
either way, should be easy 2 minute claim & seller pays return shipping.
both buyer & seller would already know this.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TallyToyBricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:57 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| | | the OP's Jul 2, 2023 09:54 response to my comment where i suggested paypal
was the payment processor was not denied or contradicted, so go figuring that
is who it was.
either way, should be easy 2 minute claim & seller pays return shipping.
both buyer & seller would already know this.
|
Europe is different.
IBAN is a direct payment from your bank to their bank. There is no way to make
a claim. It is almost like paying someone with cash at a garage sale.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 15:03 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, TallyToyBricks writes:
| | | | the OP's Jul 2, 2023 09:54 response to my comment where i suggested paypal
was the payment processor was not denied or contradicted, so go figuring that
is who it was.
either way, should be easy 2 minute claim & seller pays return shipping.
both buyer & seller would already know this.
|
Europe is different.
IBAN is a direct payment from your bank to their bank. There is no way to make
a claim. It is almost like paying someone with cash at a garage sale.
|
Two people arguing over a method of payment when the buyer hasn't even stated
what it is.
Why do you argue over facts not in evidence?
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:57 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| | | | | why isn't this just an Easy-Peezy 2 minute paypal claim away from already
being solved...?
|
In Europe, most payments are not made with PayPal - they use IBAN.
|
That VERY depends the Country.
Exacts numbers for our shop, in France, for the whole 2022:
* PayPal 76%
* Stripe 10%
* IBAN, check, etc the remaining
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TallyToyBricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | why isn't this just an Easy-Peezy 2 minute paypal claim away from already
being solved...?
|
In Europe, most payments are not made with PayPal - they use IBAN.
|
That VERY depends the Country.
Exacts numbers for our shop, in France, for the whole 2022:
* PayPal 76%
* Stripe 10%
* IBAN, check, etc the remaining
|
That was my American bias - thinking of Europe as a monolith and not a collection
of individual countries with different preferences.
Joe
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 15:10 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, TallyToyBricks writes:
| | In Problem Order, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | why isn't this just an Easy-Peezy 2 minute paypal claim away from already
being solved...?
|
In Europe, most payments are not made with PayPal - they use IBAN.
|
That VERY depends the Country.
Exacts numbers for our shop, in France, for the whole 2022:
* PayPal 76%
* Stripe 10%
* IBAN, check, etc the remaining
|
That was my American bias - thinking of Europe as a monolith and not a collection
of individual countries with different preferences.
Joe
|
Don't worry, we here hardly see the difference between USA, Canada and Mexico
Apart there's more snow in Mexico AFAIK.
IBAN/SEPA payments are FAR more common in Germany and Netherlands for instance.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Dino | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 17:45 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| Please distinguish, there is a land mass called Europe, similar to Australia
and there is a federation of European states called the European Union (EU).
The laws you mention do not apply anywhere else in the EU.
Germany is in the EU, but Switzerland is not.
In Problem Order, TallyToyBricks writes:
| | | | keyword there.
seller is not required too, yeah he should to stay professional if he truely
made the mistake , but paypal won't require it. if i'm wrong , feel free
to prove me wrong, you'll get a free high-five.
|
Again, this transaction occurred in Europe they have much stronger consumer protection
laws.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 13:24 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| | | you do not get to keep what you received & get a full refund.
|
It's the contrary, you don't have to pay for what a seller sent if you
didn't order this.
Buyer can keep money AND goods.
Or, seller simply pays for the shipping.
| | welcome to Civilized Society
|
The one of FlatEarthToys?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:57 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | you do not get to keep what you received & get a full refund.
|
It's the contrary, you don't have to pay for what a seller sent if you
didn't order this.
|
According to the United States Federal Trade Commission (FTC):
By law, companies can’t send unordered merchandise to you, then demand payment.
That means you never have to pay for things you get but didn’t order. You also
don’t need to return unordered merchandise. You’re legally entitled to keep it
as a free gift.
https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products#unordered
Even demanding that the item be returned or seeking payment for it is against
the law. Of course the recipient can send it back but there's no obligation
for him or her to do so.
Whether or not the Rule is involved, in any approval or other sale you must
obtain the customer’s prior express agreement to receive the merchandise. Otherwise
the merchandise may be treated as unordered merchandise. It is unlawful to:
...
2. Try to obtain payment for or the return of the unordered merchandise.
https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/business-guide-ftcs-mail-internet-or-telephone-order-merchandise-rule
[scroll down to "Unordered Merchandise"]
I do agree that EU consumer protection laws are generally stronger than those
in the USA but not in this kind of case.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PlanetEarthToys | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:59 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, peregrinator writes:
| | In Problem Order, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | you do not get to keep what you received & get a full refund.
|
It's the contrary, you don't have to pay for what a seller sent if you
didn't order this.
|
According to the United States Federal Trade Commission (FTC):
By law, companies can’t send unordered merchandise to you, then demand payment.
That means you never have to pay for things you get but didn’t order. You also
don’t need to return unordered merchandise. You’re legally entitled to keep it
as a free gift.
https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/what-do-if-youre-billed-things-you-never-got-or-you-get-unordered-products#unordered
Even demanding that the item be returned or seeking payment for it is against
the law. Of course the recipient can send it back but there's no obligation
for him or her to do so.
Whether or not the Rule is involved, in any approval or other sale you must
obtain the customer’s prior express agreement to receive the merchandise. Otherwise
the merchandise may be treated as unordered merchandise. It is unlawful to:
...
2. Try to obtain payment for or the return of the unordered merchandise.
https://www.ftc.gov/business-guidance/resources/business-guide-ftcs-mail-internet-or-telephone-order-merchandise-rule
[scroll down to "Unordered Merchandise"]
I do agree that EU consumer protection laws are generally stronger than those
in the USA but not in this kind of case.
|
buyer paid before shipment of items
everything you just quoted does not apply
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 15:03 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| | | everything you just quoted does not apply
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You're never wrong, aren't you?
What doesn't apply here?
That means you never have to pay for things you get but didn’t order. You
also don’t need to return unordered merchandise. You’re legally entitled to keep
it as a free gift.
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| | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 14:53 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
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| In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
I told him he can either send me the porto (what is high) and i send it back
and he sends me the correct minifig (what would be about 10 Euro + labor) or
he can send me just 10 euro and be done with the topic.
He refused. He wanted only to refund the difference between the cost of the minifig
he send me and the one i actually ordered. I explained him, that i would not
have ordered this minifig and i have no use for it, so either i send it back
on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund.
It's just about 3 Euros actually. But i really don't like people that
don't full refund for their mistakes. Mistakes can happen!
As an answer, he told me again that he will just refund me the difference between
the delivered minifig and the minifig i ordered.
In the same message, he started to talk about that he checked out my website
and stuff, and starts threatening me with "abmahnungen". Thats some german
term were they report you for anything wrongdoing (like not having an impressum,
not beeing registered at the right place) and that this will cost me up to 2500
euro.
In the end, i'm not really threatend. I checked my legal obligations and
they are all fine (he probably just missed the links to impressum and data-security
in the footer).
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
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Send him a screenshot of the footer, and circle in red the links he missed. He
might back down if he understands threats like that aren't going to work.
It's also unclear what the difference in cost is between the correct minifig
and the incorrect one he sent you.
It sounds like he is trying to say keep the incorrect minifig and accept the
difference. This might imply that he doesn't actually have the correct minifig
and can't send it to you, and that he thinks that you want the correct minifig,
which he doesn't have, sent to you.
As others have pointed out, you can get a refund for the minifig through PayPal,
if you paid via that payment method. You didn't specify which payment method
you used, so if you didn't actually pay via PayPal, the people telling you
to get a refund through them should be ignored.
The principle is the same though, check if you can get a refund through the method
of payment, and see if you can get a full refund of the 10 euros or not.
Hopefully he will stop being threatening. Possibly there is some mistake in translation
or interpretation of the messages being sent back and forth?
I sincerely hope you can work with the seller to get a resolution without resorting
to threats. You're a buyer in this situation, be patient and stick to the
facts regarding the incorrect minifig.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2023 16:22 | | Subject: | Re: Threats | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Problem Order | |
|
| In Problem Order, Munotbrick writes:
| | Hello
I ordered a couple minifigs from a german seller.
Once arrived, i told him that he send the wrong minifig. The minifig was already
in my collection, so i had no use for it.
I told him he can either send me the porto (what is high) and i send it back
and he sends me the correct minifig (what would be about 10 Euro + labor) or
he can send me just 10 euro and be done with the topic.
He refused. He wanted only to refund the difference between the cost of the minifig
he send me and the one i actually ordered. I explained him, that i would not
have ordered this minifig and i have no use for it, so either i send it back
on his cost and he sends me the right one or he has to refund.
It's just about 3 Euros actually. But i really don't like people that
don't full refund for their mistakes. Mistakes can happen!
As an answer, he told me again that he will just refund me the difference between
the delivered minifig and the minifig i ordered.
In the same message, he started to talk about that he checked out my website
and stuff, and starts threatening me with "abmahnungen". Thats some german
term were they report you for anything wrongdoing (like not having an impressum,
not beeing registered at the right place) and that this will cost me up to 2500
euro.
In the end, i'm not really threatend. I checked my legal obligations and
they are all fine (he probably just missed the links to impressum and data-security
in the footer).
Nevertheless - how to deal with such a seller on bricklink? He has many many
positive feedbacks - even though i start to suspect he makes sure this way that
he does not have any negative ones...
|
So, and putting on my Judge Judy judicial robe, there are a few details which
might help us all to sort out what is the best way forward.
What minifig was ordered ?
What minifig arrived ?
How much was the order total before shipping ?
How much was the shipping (plus VAT if recorded separately from the item cost)
?
From a purist perspective, those questions might not be important, but to me
they have some bearing on how to sort this out.
Nita Rae
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Switzerland, Schaffhausen
USA, Massachusetts
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Luxembourg
)
)
Canada, British Columbia
Australia, Queensland