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| | | Author: | Erikmax  | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2022 17:41 | | Subject: | New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 227 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| Hi
I just got a mail from Bricklink about having passed the 10.000 treshold for
export to european countries and it does not take away some worries.
My worries concern the registration of the so-called margin sales, that are excluded
from the new system, (OSS or registration by country)
It will be a problem for any dealer selling partly in the margin system, because
the amount we put in the OSS system will not correspondent with the amount Bricklink
reports to the tax authorities. This will mean that dealers doing so can get
questions from all of these countries. ("BL tells us you sold 12.000 Euro, you
have put 7.000 Euro in the OOS system- explain!)
In general: The new system is a real nightmare and will give a lot of discussion
about interpretation. I already got reports from a stampdealer selling 200 Euro
stamps (pure margin) and one tweezer of 7 euro to france, because he did not
put this sale in the OSS system. The French Taxes got the info from e-bay.
There is no word about the margin sales in the BL communication and it looks
they are not aware of this problem.
I have send the following e-mail to BL admin:
Hi
I just got an email about European VAT rules and I have two questions:
1. We sell both new and used LEGO (second hand goods). Lego is sold under the
margin system that we do not have to pay in all the different countries. It
is excluded from this new regulations. We pay Dutch VAT for the difference between
margin goods bought and sold.
2. According to Dutch fiscal law all transport costs are charged with 21% VAT,
so have to be added to the amount sold, also when the shipment is VAT-free charged
by the postal administration. To my surprise it is not included in the threshold
you mention. But how to handle this? Do we have to reportv this part in the Netherlands?
Are there different rules in the countries for taxing the transport costs?
A lot of problems will arise when we sell 20.000 on Bricklink, 10.000 new and
10.000 used, because we will not count the 10.000 used in the OSS system and
this might create a difference between the figures you submit to the local tax
authorities and the amounts we put in the OSS.
I am not the only dealer with this problem, there are even dealers selling 100%
used that do not havev to use the OSS system at all.
So I am very curious how you will tackle this problem otherwise I forsee a lot
of problems for many sellers.
Regards
Erik
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| | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2022 17:53 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| Hi,
First, the regulations are not new anymore 
Second, for people selling both New (under VAT) and Used (under margin VAT),
Russell talked about letting you have two stores.
(Yeah, I know….)
Third, I also received a letter today. Me, with a store that was never opened
and no inventory….
Just skimmed it before I deleted it, so I’m not sure but I think it only summarized
the rules, it did not say I was over the limit.
Fourth, there’s a problem currently: https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1348293
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| | | | | Author: | buddhabar | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2022 00:22 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 93 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| Hi
If I understand correctly, those who sell used legos do not have to pay VAT?
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2022 07:41 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, buddhabar writes:
| | Hi
If I understand correctly, those who sell used legos do not have to pay VAT?
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They do ‘margin VAT’.
If you buy VAT-included, the end result is the same: you pay on the added value.
But the way of calculating is different.
With 20% VAT, if you buy for €100 and sell for €120 (VAT included):
‘Normal’ VAT = you owe €20 VAT (120 = 100 x 1.2, 120 − 100 = 20), but you already
paid €16.67 VAT when you bought (100 = 83.33 x 1.2, 100 - 83.33 = 16.67), so
you owe €3.33 (20 − 16.67).
Margin VAT = you owe €3.33 VAT (120 − 100 = 20 = 16.67 x 1.2, 20 − 16.67 = 3.33).
But if you buy VAT-exempt, it’s a different matter:
‘Normal’ VAT = you owe €20 VAT (same calculaton)… but you didn’t pay VAT, so
you owe €20.
Margin VAT = same calculations, you still owe €3.33.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Erikmax | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2022 16:15 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, buddhabar writes:
| | Hi
If I understand correctly, those who sell used legos do not have to pay VAT?
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t
The margin system is effective in most EEC countries, and is for most second-
hand articles. The idea behind it is to avoid double taxing. When you buy LEGO
from a non-VAT registered person (a collector for instance) VAT has been paid
for the goods when the collector bought them.
At the end of the year you calculate the amount of 'margin' goods sold
and decuct the amount of 'margin' goods bought. You pay VAT over the
difference. This system is put out of the OSS or paying the VAT in each individual
country.
Because margin goods and VAT goods mix in the stick some dealers like me have
a mix of normal VAT and margin. You can calculate this based on the mix of VAT
goods and margin goods on the balance.
So for second hand dealers it is an advance to work with the margin but it not
always as good as I sounds. You can't carry a surplus of buyings from one
year to the next. So investing in stock it might mean you still have to pay
the 21% at the end.
This margin system might become a real nightmare for dealers because it may be
unclear for the tax organisations that turnover is'margin' turnover
taxcable in the home country.
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2022 16:53 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, buddhabar writes:
| | Hi
If I understand correctly, those who sell used legos do not have to pay VAT?
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Mmmmh if your question is about paying VAT (and not cherging VAT), then:
* tiny companies, entrepreneurs like in France, are registered and they do PAY
VAT and cannot deduct it, or do anything about it.
* other registered companies, may or may not pay VAT depending the Country they
buy.
If they buy in their Country, they'll pay the VAT, and will later be able
to deduct the VAT amount paid to the VAT they owe (due to their sales).
If they buy in another Country in Europe, they the more often ask for a non-VAT
invoice (B2B) if the seller has also a VAT-ID and charges VAT. So, yes here,
they don't pay for VAT.
When they buy outside Europe (Import), they'll (often) pay VAT at the import
of the goods through Customs.
But all in all, if they pay the VAT they can deduct this amount (so, in short,
it's like they didn't have to pay for it), or they simply don't pay
for it.
In other words, and if it's your question, in short Companies (registered
to VAT) pay goods something like 20% cheaper.
But don't be fooled, they also pay a LOT of fees "normal people" don't
pay
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| | | | | Author: | rankster | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2022 03:34 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, Erikmax writes:
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The amount we put in the OSS system will not correspondent with the amount Bricklink
reports to the tax authorities.
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Does BL really report anything to tax authorities?
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| | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jul 2, 2022 16:44 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, rankster writes:
| | In Taxes, Erikmax writes:
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The amount we put in the OSS system will not correspondent with the amount Bricklink
reports to the tax authorities.
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Does BL really report anything to tax authorities?
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Nope. They keep all the money for themselves. All of this "tax" is just BrickLink's
clever way of increasing seller fees. 
Jokes aside, yes, BrickLink is reporting things to "tax authorities." I don't
know what the situation looks like in Europe, but in the U.S., it used to be
that sellers were responsible for collecting and remitting state and local sales
tax. No one did, so the laws were changed to shift responsibility for collecting
and remitting tax to marketplace facilitators such as BrickLink.
I honestly can't blame BrickLink for not wanting to implement all these taxes,
it doesn't seem like a fun job…
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | rankster | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2022 03:10 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Taxes, rankster writes:
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Does BL really report anything to tax authorities?
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Nope. They keep all the money for themselves. All of this "tax" is just BrickLink's
clever way of increasing seller fees.
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The question was about OSS. The sellers report and pay the VAT to their tax authorities
quaterly and not BL. It’s not like US sales tax.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2022 03:22 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, rankster writes:
| | The question was about OSS. The sellers report and pay the VAT to their tax authorities
quaterly and not BL. It’s not like US sales tax.
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Got it. I admit I still have no idea what OSS is, but I guess taxes work differently
in different parts of the world.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | roball1956 | | Posted: | Jul 3, 2022 03:32 | | Subject: | Re: New European tax regulatioins | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Taxes | |
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| In Taxes, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Taxes, rankster writes:
| | The question was about OSS. The sellers report and pay the VAT to their tax authorities
quaterly and not BL. It’s not like US sales tax.
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Got it. I admit I still have no idea what OSS is, but I guess taxes work differently
in different parts of the world.
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OSS is an application / portal - One Stop Shop
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Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Hungary, Győr-Moson-Sopron
Austria, Wien
USA, Illinois
United Kingdom, England