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| | | Author: | 1001bricks  | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 12:46 | | Subject: | Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 183 times | | Topic: | Colors | | Status: | Open | |
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| We had an order with a color error.
We didn't see the stock we put for sale was the wrong color.
No problem.
But it was mainly because of the confusing "Medium" term in colors:
Medium Violet: is lighter than Violet
Medium Blue: is lighter than Blue
Medium Green: is lighter than Green
Medium Lime: is lighter than Lime
Medium Orange: is lighter than Orange
BUT, at the opposite...
Medium Nougat: is DARKER than Nougat
Medium Lavender: is DARKER than Lavender
Proposal: Just like Medium Dark Pink, couldn't we rename those to:
Medium Dark Nougat
Medium Dark Lavender?
This way it would be clear that those are darker than the original.
Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
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| | | | | Author: | maxx3001 | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:05 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | We had an order with a color error.
We didn't see the stock we put for sale was the wrong color.
No problem.
But it was mainly because of the confusing "Medium" term in colors:
Medium Violet: is lighter than Violet
Medium Blue: is lighter than Blue
Medium Green: is lighter than Green
Medium Lime: is lighter than Lime
Medium Orange: is lighter than Orange
BUT, at the opposite...
Medium Nougat: is DARKER than Nougat
Medium Lavender: is DARKER than Lavender
Proposal: Just like Medium Dark Pink, couldn't we rename those to:
Medium Dark Nougat
Medium Dark Lavender?
This way it would be clear that those are darker than the original.
Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
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IGNORE MODE INITIATED!!!
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:22 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| | | | | Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
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IGNORE MODE INITIATED!!!
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It's a Medium Reply...
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | maxx3001 | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | | | Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
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IGNORE MODE INITIATED!!!
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It's a Medium Reply...
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Dark or light medium?
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| | | | | Author: | leopard37 | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:18 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | We had an order with a color error.
We didn't see the stock we put for sale was the wrong color.
No problem.
But it was mainly because of the confusing "Medium" term in colors:
Medium Violet: is lighter than Violet
Medium Blue: is lighter than Blue
Medium Green: is lighter than Green
Medium Lime: is lighter than Lime
Medium Orange: is lighter than Orange
BUT, at the opposite...
Medium Nougat: is DARKER than Nougat
Medium Lavender: is DARKER than Lavender
Proposal: Just like Medium Dark Pink, couldn't we rename those to:
Medium Dark Nougat
Medium Dark Lavender?
This way it would be clear that those are darker than the original.
Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
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A color chart would have solved this no matter what the color is called...
Tyson.
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| | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:21 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | We had an order with a color error.
We didn't see the stock we put for sale was the wrong color.
No problem.
But it was mainly because of the confusing "Medium" term in colors:
Medium Violet: is lighter than Violet
Medium Blue: is lighter than Blue
Medium Green: is lighter than Green
Medium Lime: is lighter than Lime
Medium Orange: is lighter than Orange
BUT, at the opposite...
Medium Nougat: is DARKER than Nougat
Medium Lavender: is DARKER than Lavender
Proposal: Just like Medium Dark Pink, couldn't we rename those to:
Medium Dark Nougat
Medium Dark Lavender?
This way it would be clear that those are darker than the original.
Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
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Technically, “Medium” tells us the colours have an absolute medium luminance
(light/dark).
“Light” & “Dark” tell us the colours are relatively lighter or darker
than the base colour.
For Nougat and Lavender, because the base colours are already light (high luminance),
Medium Nougat and Medium Lavender end up darker than Nougat and Lavender.
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:25 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| | | | | If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
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Technically, “Medium” tells us the colours have an absolute medium luminance
(light/dark).
“Light” & “Dark” tell us the colours are relatively lighter or darker
than the base colour.
For Nougat and Lavender, because the base colours are already light (high luminance),
Medium Nougat and Medium Lavender end up darker than Nougat and Lavender.
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It's the worse - when there's a technical reason but it still doesn't
work.
Maybe I don't see the luminance
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:43 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
It's the worse - when there's a technical reason but it still doesn't
work.
Maybe I don't see the luminance
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WiP chart attached (it fits in the hand and uses extra parts only  ).
First line is special.
For the rest, if you don’t mind the transparent/special colours on the right:
— Hue is top to bottom (hue is a wheel, it goes from red to red, rainbow-like).
— Left to rigth is mostly Luminance with “à vue de nez” reorganising to fit the
colours in the grid.
(NY/Neon Yellow is not the correct colour, it’s not yet in Studio.
Same for Warm/Medium? Tan and Medium Brown but they are at the bottom right because
they aren’t used for common parts, yet.)
Conclusions:
— There’s too many yellows!
— Sand colours are a pain to place (they can fit with the others but then they
break the gradients).
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:49 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| | | Technically, “Medium” tells us the colours have an absolute medium luminance
(light/dark).
“Light” & “Dark” tell us the colours are relatively lighter or darker
than the base colour.
For Nougat and Lavender, because the base colours are already light (high luminance),
Medium Nougat and Medium Lavender end up darker than Nougat and Lavender.
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After discussing here and checking, I agree on this technical reason.
But that's plain stupid, sorry to say.
The name of a Color should describe it in itself or relatively to its base color.
Example: Light Nougat, it's clear, Light Nougat is a lighter version than
the Nougat.
But saying Medium Lavender "is the absolute medium luminance" of the Lavender,
for the average AFOL is - sorry again - stupid.
In this case either decide Medium is a lighter version, or use composed words
like Medium Light or Medium Dark, or a different term.
But this technical definition does_not_work as a Color Name.
Otherwise, why not call Brown-755945, or the colors by their RGB (or CMYB or
Pentone) color???
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:57 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
But saying Medium Lavender "is the absolute medium luminance" of the Lavender,
for the average AFOL is - sorry again - stupid. […]
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I’m just describing how it seems to work in an objective way. Not saying it’s
the best / how it should be.
Me, I think Lavender should be called Light Lavender and Medium Lavender, Lavender.
But that’s because, contrarily to the, hem, person who first named the washed-out
version Lavender, I’ve seen real lavande flowers 
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:04 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
But saying Medium Lavender "is the absolute medium luminance" of the Lavender,
for the average AFOL is - sorry again - stupid. […]
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I’m just describing how it seems to work in an objective way. Not saying it’s
the best / how it should be.
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Fair enough.
| | Me, I think Lavender should be called Light Lavender and Medium Lavender, Lavender.
But that’s because, contrarily to the, hem, person who first named the washed-out
version Lavender, I’ve seen real lavande flowers
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Agreed, and you had this chance while being in Holidays I guess.
Here I've them a few feet/meters from here 
That's an idea; ask people in Montélimar or Spain what Nougat color is!
But hey, Medium Lavender and Medium Nougat ARE a pain.
Please Catalog people, do something.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:13 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Agreed, and you had this chance while being in Holidays I guess.
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No, in my mother’s garden in Seine-et-Marne
| | Here I've them a few feet/meters from here
That's an idea; ask people in Montélimar or Spain what Nougat color is!
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Ah, just read my other answer… I hadn’t seen yours yet
| | But hey, Medium Lavender and Medium Nougat ARE a pain.
Please Catalog people, do something.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:11 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
But saying Medium Lavender "is the absolute medium luminance" of the Lavender,
for the average AFOL is - sorry again - stupid. […]
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I’m just describing how it seems to work in an objective way. Not saying it’s
the best / how it should be.
Me, I think Lavender should be called Light Lavender and Medium Lavender, Lavender.
But that’s because, contrarily to the, hem, person who first named the washed-out
version Lavender, I’ve seen real lavande flowers
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Oh, and the Nougat colours are all wrong from the point of view of an amateur
of nougat de Montélimar (not Turrón or Viennese nougat).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:18 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| | | Oh, and the Nougat colours are all wrong from the point of view of an amateur
of nougat de Montélimar (not Turrón or Viennese nougat).
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Sooo right!
But I didn't know they have Nougat in Vietnam.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:40 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | Oh, and the Nougat colours are all wrong from the point of view of an amateur
of nougat de Montélimar (not Turrón or Viennese nougat).
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Sooo right!
But I didn't know they have Nougat in Vietnam.
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From Vienna, Austria (no, not Australia! no free-ranging kangaroos there… unless
some escaped from a zoo).
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 15:02 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | Oh, and the Nougat colours are all wrong from the point of view of an amateur
of nougat de Montélimar (not Turrón or Viennese nougat).
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Sooo right!
But I didn't know they have Nougat in Vietnam.
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From Vienna, Austria (no, not Australia! no free-ranging kangaroos there… unless
some escaped from a zoo).
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I'm 100% sure that some Australian people living in Vienna could have eaten
Nougat in Vietnam.
Prove me the contrary!
But that doesn't change the fact Medium Lavender and Medium Nougat sucks
as color names.
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| | | | | Author: | crimson30 | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:22 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| This has always irked me as well. Seems that the more bricklink takes after
Lego, the more likely we get less-than-ideal color names.
I would love to see a panel of experts that gets together and has a lengthy discussion
(not a day or two, I'm talking weeks or months) and overhauls the color naming
system.
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| | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, crimson30 writes:
| | This has always irked me as well. Seems that the more bricklink takes after
Lego, the more likely we get less-than-ideal color names.
I would love to see a panel of experts that gets together and has a lengthy discussion
(not a day or two, I'm talking weeks or months) and overhauls the color naming
system.
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My answer would be don't change anything more than we have to. Institutional
memory is a thing.
I'm definitely not in charge though!!
Jen
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:29 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, crimson30 writes:
| | This has always irked me as well. Seems that the more bricklink takes after
Lego, the more likely we get less-than-ideal color names.
I would love to see a panel of experts that gets together and has a lengthy discussion
(not a day or two, I'm talking weeks or months) and overhauls the color naming
system.
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This has already been normalized:
http://v4ei.com/comics/index.php?id=colors&check=s2009
We should follow this.
It reminds me maybe in 2007 or such, there's been a hack in BrickLink.
I still have a screen copy of it, but should search for it...
Suddenly all your lots in various colors appeared in Red, if I remember well.
That was a "fun" hack, and promptly repaired by Dan.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2022 11:55 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| | | It reminds me maybe in 2007 or such, there's been a hack in BrickLink.
I still have a screen copy of it, but should search for it...
Suddenly all your lots in various colors appeared in Red, if I remember well.
That was a "fun" hack, and promptly repaired by Dan.
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Found it
I've a note dated 18 JUL 2011, so it was probably that specific day.
Note the Red color for all items, here described as "Very Light Gray", ah and
the Category renamed by the Hacker "jasonthe2nd"...
Just for memories...
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2022 14:09 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | It reminds me maybe in 2007 or such, there's been a hack in BrickLink.
I still have a screen copy of it, but should search for it...
Suddenly all your lots in various colors appeared in Red, if I remember well.
That was a "fun" hack, and promptly repaired by Dan.
|
Found it
I've a note dated 18 JUL 2011, so it was probably that specific day.
Note the Red color for all items, here described as "Very Light Gray", ah and
the Category renamed by the Hacker "jasonthe2nd"...
Just for memories...
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Ah, nostalgia...
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Mar 23, 2022 17:14 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
Have I arrived? I seem to be represented in the latest comic ("vibrant")!
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| | | | | | | Author: | maxx3001 | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:40 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, crimson30 writes:
| | This has always irked me as well. Seems that the more bricklink takes after
Lego, the more likely we get less-than-ideal color names.
I would love to see a panel of experts that gets together and has a lengthy discussion
(not a day or two, I'm talking weeks or months) and overhauls the color naming
system.
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Keep it as much as is, as possible, changing the names doesn’t make it easier
to keep up.
A brown is called brown because we all agreed to it, kiss.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | crimson30 | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:33 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| If I could do whatever I wanted, I would only change 2 color names (neither of
which are in production anymore). And I'd want to split Light Orange, Pink,
and Medium Violet.
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| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 13:24 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | We had an order with a color error.
We didn't see the stock we put for sale was the wrong color.
No problem.
But it was mainly because of the confusing "Medium" term in colors:
Medium Violet: is lighter than Violet
Medium Blue: is lighter than Blue
Medium Green: is lighter than Green
Medium Lime: is lighter than Lime
Medium Orange: is lighter than Orange
BUT, at the opposite...
Medium Nougat: is DARKER than Nougat
Medium Lavender: is DARKER than Lavender
Proposal: Just like Medium Dark Pink, couldn't we rename those to:
Medium Dark Nougat
Medium Dark Lavender?
This way it would be clear that those are darker than the original.
Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
|
Well, it's not as if someone started with the colors we have now and set
out to create the most confusing system possible. Each color was named as it
came along over decades. Some were common names, some were LEGO names. Some LEGO
production color name data wasn't always available. Some we have had to adjust
over time as new colors or conflicts arrived. I think we try and use LEGO names
when they aren't strange or way too many characters.
Yes, I am looking at you Transparent Fluorescent Reddish Orange. Try typing that
four times fast. lol
Jen
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| | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:19 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, jennnifer writes:
| | In Colors, 1001bricks writes:
| | We had an order with a color error.
We didn't see the stock we put for sale was the wrong color.
No problem.
But it was mainly because of the confusing "Medium" term in colors:
Medium Violet: is lighter than Violet
Medium Blue: is lighter than Blue
Medium Green: is lighter than Green
Medium Lime: is lighter than Lime
Medium Orange: is lighter than Orange
BUT, at the opposite...
Medium Nougat: is DARKER than Nougat
Medium Lavender: is DARKER than Lavender
Proposal: Just like Medium Dark Pink, couldn't we rename those to:
Medium Dark Nougat
Medium Dark Lavender?
This way it would be clear that those are darker than the original.
Ah - and BTW, why Medium Azure and not Azure?
If it's not a problem, simply ignore it.
|
Well, it's not as if someone started with the colors we have now and set
out to create the most confusing system possible. Each color was named as it
came along over decades. Some were common names, some were LEGO names. Some LEGO
production color name data wasn't always available. Some we have had to adjust
over time as new colors or conflicts arrived. I think we try and use LEGO names
when they aren't strange or way too many characters.
Yes, I am looking at you Transparent Fluorescent Reddish Orange. Try typing that
four times fast. lol
Jen
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Torso Shirt Pattern / Transparent Fluorescent Reddish Orange Arms / Transparent
Fluorescen t Reddish Orange Hands
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 22, 2022 14:28 | | Subject: | Re: Confusing Medium term in Colors | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| | | | | Well, it's not as if someone started with the colors we have now and set
out to create the most confusing system possible. Each color was named as it
came along over decades. Some were common names, some were LEGO names. Some LEGO
production color name data wasn't always available. Some we have had to adjust
over time as new colors or conflicts arrived. I think we try and use LEGO names
when they aren't strange or way too many characters.
Yes, I am looking at you Transparent Fluorescent Reddish Orange. Try typing that
four times fast. lol
Jen
|
Torso Shirt Pattern / Transparent Fluorescent Reddish Orange Arms / Transparent
Fluorescen t Reddish Orange Hands
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Where the heck are my vomitory bags???
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France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
Netherlands, Utrecht
Canada, Alberta
USA, Utah
