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| | | Author: | 1001bricks  | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 15:19 | | Subject: | A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 411 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| Following MANY discussions about this subject, and approving:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1327974
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1328054
(and others)
And guessing this has probably already been proposed, but anyway...
I propose a 0 + 5 Stars rating system.
In essence:
- 0 would correspond to "Zero service (or the current Negative)"
- 1 would mean "I received the minimal service"
- 2 to 4 stars would be something like "it's ok"
- 5 could be "exceptional".
Details:
* a transaction could be "feedbacked" either 0 (very bad) or more usually from
1 (minimum) to 5 stars (maximum)
* while selecting the feedback:
- selecting 0 (or not selecting anything) would be shown in Red
- selecting 1 would be shown in Gray
- selecting 2 to 4 would be shown in Green
- selecting 5 would be shown in Yellow/Gold
* in the feedback score
- no rating would count for NOTHING
- a rating of zero would count (as a Negative)
I think it would be FAR better than the current system:
* frankly unhappy
* frankly happy
* neutral (but which decreases the seller's score!)
* abstention
The previous feedbacks would be converted with this simple rule:
* Negative : 0
* Positive : 5
* Neutral : 3
Then a simple calculation can be made to determine the global feedback of the
member.
On 120 orders, 100 only received a (any) feedback:
- 100 x 5 stars = 500 / 500 = 100%
- 100 x 3 stars = 300 / 500 = 60%
- 100 x 1 stars = 100 / 500 = 20%
- 100 x 0 stars = 0 / 500 = 0%
Of course, at the beginning, we won't see many changes, as Positive receive
5 stars and Negative 0.
But the difference in between the current "95/98%" will start while receiving
new stars feedbacks.
Some will get more 1 or 2, others will receive more 4 or 5.
We'll see some member having 40/60% and some others 80/90%.
Hoping that helps.
Sylvain
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| | | | | Author: | Tracyd | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 15:54 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| | Following MANY discussions about this subject, and approving:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1327974
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1328054
(and others)
And guessing this has probably already been proposed, but anyway...
I propose a 0 + 5 Stars rating system.
In essence:
- 0 would correspond to "Zero service (or the current Negative)"
- 1 would mean "I received the minimal service"
- 2 to 4 stars would be something like "it's ok"
- 5 could be "exceptional".
Details:
* a transaction could be "feedbacked" either 0 (very bad) or more usually from
1 (minimum) to 5 stars (maximum)
* while selecting the feedback:
- selecting 0 (or not selecting anything) would be shown in Red
- selecting 1 would be shown in Gray
- selecting 2 to 4 would be shown in Green
- selecting 5 would be shown in Yellow/Gold
* in the feedback score
- no rating would count for NOTHING
- a rating of zero would count (as a Negative)
I think it would be FAR better than the current system:
* frankly unhappy
* frankly happy
* neutral (but which decreases the seller's score!)
* abstention
The previous feedbacks would be converted with this simple rule:
* Negative : 0
* Positive : 5
* Neutral : 3
Then a simple calculation can be made to determine the global feedback of the
member.
On 120 orders, 100 only received a (any) feedback:
- 100 x 5 stars = 500 / 500 = 100%
- 100 x 3 stars = 300 / 500 = 60%
- 100 x 1 stars = 100 / 500 = 20%
- 100 x 0 stars = 0 / 500 = 0%
Of course, at the beginning, we won't see many changes, as Positive receive
5 stars and Negative 0.
But the difference in between the current "95/98%" will start while receiving
new stars feedbacks.
Some will get more 1 or 2, others will receive more 4 or 5.
We'll see some member having 40/60% and some others 80/90%.
Hoping that helps.
Sylvain
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Stores should also be penalized for not leaving feedback.
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| | | | | | | Author: | psusaxman2000 | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 16:31 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | Stores should also be penalized for not leaving feedback.
|
Would you not then penalize buyers as well? How would the "penalty" work? You
can't just auto deduct "points" if someone doesn't give a rating as that
would adversely affect the numbers.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Tracyd | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 16:44 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | Stores should also be penalized for not leaving feedback.
|
Would you not then penalize buyers as well? How would the "penalty" work? You
can't just auto deduct "points" if someone doesn't give a rating as that
would adversely affect the numbers
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Yes you can, the transaction includes leaving feedback. It's harder to penalize
a buyer but you can. Thou since you don't leave feedback on certain other
sites not everyone understands leaving it as a buyer, but sellers know better.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | psusaxman2000 | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 17:05 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | Stores should also be penalized for not leaving feedback.
|
Would you not then penalize buyers as well? How would the "penalty" work? You
can't just auto deduct "points" if someone doesn't give a rating as that
would adversely affect the numbers
|
Yes you can, the transaction includes leaving feedback. It's harder to penalize
a buyer but you can. Thou since you don't leave feedback on certain other
sites not everyone understands leaving it as a buyer, but sellers know better.
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I'm not against this, just always try to reference it from both sides.
So then as a seller who wants to make sure that everything is complete and the
buyer is satisfied, do you force them to leave their feedback before any notification
or remark from the buyer?
There have been numerous discussions here about "who should leave feedback first"
and we don't need to spawn that again, but just a consideration. I personally
leave after I've shipped just to be down with it, but can understand from
both sides if you get a buyer that then doesn't respond until after 30 days
and I can no longer modify if it goes south. For me I only sell domestically
right now as well so that plays a part, but there is good points to go either
direction. If/when I get comfortable or big enough to go international, I might
wait longer to post for those sales as they are longer delivery times and could
run into problems at a longer time frame.
Then you have to say "What is the time frame for the penalty?" Is it 30 days,
90 days? If it's too long for larger seller who get 10s or 100s of orders
over that time, would they even remember everything or would it just be form
posting like today? Just food for thought.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Tracyd | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 17:33 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | In Suggestions, psusaxman2000 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
| | Stores should also be penalized for not leaving feedback.
|
Would you not then penalize buyers as well? How would the "penalty" work? You
can't just auto deduct "points" if someone doesn't give a rating as that
would adversely affect the numbers
|
Yes you can, the transaction includes leaving feedback. It's harder to penalize
a buyer but you can. Thou since you don't leave feedback on certain other
sites not everyone understands leaving it as a buyer, but sellers know better.
|
I'm not against this, just always try to reference it from both sides.
So then as a seller who wants to make sure that everything is complete and the
buyer is satisfied, do you force them to leave their feedback before any notification
or remark from the buyer?
There have been numerous discussions here about "who should leave feedback first"
and we don't need to spawn that again, but just a consideration. I personally
leave after I've shipped just to be down with it, but can understand from
both sides if you get a buyer that then doesn't respond until after 30 days
and I can no longer modify if it goes south. For me I only sell domestically
right now as well so that plays a part, but there is good points to go either
direction. If/when I get comfortable or big enough to go international, I might
wait longer to post for those sales as they are longer delivery times and could
run into problems at a longer time frame.
Then you have to say "What is the time frame for the penalty?" Is it 30 days,
90 days? If it's too long for larger seller who get 10s or 100s of orders
over that time, would they even remember everything or would it just be form
posting like today? Just food for thought.
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It can be that at the 6 month purge if neither side leaves feedback both get
neutral with a note that it was an automated feedback left by the system. But
if a seller is too busy to leave feedback in a timely manner you need a better
system or more help. The transaction isn't complete until feedback is left
by both sides. Currently I have left 330 feedbacks but only have 322 in return
all as a buyer. I did my part but some didn't. I am not OCD about it, but
to see all the importance seller's put on getting positive feedback it would
be nice for them all to back it up.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 17:39 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | It can be that at the 6 month purge if neither side leaves feedback both get
neutral with a note that it was an automated feedback left by the system. But
if a seller is too busy to leave feedback in a timely manner you need a better
system or more help. The transaction isn't complete until feedback is left
by both sides. Currently I have left 330 feedbacks but only have 322 in return
all as a buyer. I did my part but some didn't. I am not OCD about it, but
to see all the importance seller's put on getting positive feedback it would
be nice for them all to back it up.
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https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1328103
Thank you.
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 17:38 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| [removed too lazy snip]
| | Stores should also be penalized for not leaving feedback.
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It's not in this suggestion; please make a specific one separtely?
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| | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 16:48 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| | Following MANY discussions about this subject, and approving:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1327974
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1328054
(and others)
And guessing this has probably already been proposed, but anyway...
I propose a 0 + 5 Stars rating system.
In essence:
- 0 would correspond to "Zero service (or the current Negative)"
- 1 would mean "I received the minimal service"
- 2 to 4 stars would be something like "it's ok"
- 5 could be "exceptional".
Details:
* a transaction could be "feedbacked" either 0 (very bad) or more usually from
1 (minimum) to 5 stars (maximum)
* while selecting the feedback:
- selecting 0 (or not selecting anything) would be shown in Red
- selecting 1 would be shown in Gray
- selecting 2 to 4 would be shown in Green
- selecting 5 would be shown in Yellow/Gold
* in the feedback score
- no rating would count for NOTHING
- a rating of zero would count (as a Negative)
I think it would be FAR better than the current system:
* frankly unhappy
* frankly happy
* neutral (but which decreases the seller's score!)
* abstention
The previous feedbacks would be converted with this simple rule:
* Negative : 0
* Positive : 5
* Neutral : 3
Then a simple calculation can be made to determine the global feedback of the
member.
On 120 orders, 100 only received a (any) feedback:
- 100 x 5 stars = 500 / 500 = 100%
- 100 x 3 stars = 300 / 500 = 60%
- 100 x 1 stars = 100 / 500 = 20%
- 100 x 0 stars = 0 / 500 = 0%
Of course, at the beginning, we won't see many changes, as Positive receive
5 stars and Negative 0.
But the difference in between the current "95/98%" will start while receiving
new stars feedbacks.
Some will get more 1 or 2, others will receive more 4 or 5.
We'll see some member having 40/60% and some others 80/90%.
Hoping that helps.
Sylvain
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I'm voting yes just because something needs to be done. However, I don't
think this is right solution because it's not easy to implement. The BL dev.
team is and will be busy with tax law for who knows how long (laws keep changing).
The simplest solution is to remove the penalty that neutral feedbacks make on
a store or user's positive feedback score.
If the penalty was removed it would enable users to leave neutral feedbacks without
the fear of negative consequences or repercussions. It's honestly a pretty
simple change that would make a huge impact on feedback.
Suddenly, stores could have 10s or 100s of neutral feedbacks that would highlight
to potential buyers the problems they might face without negatively impacting
anyone's ratings.
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 17:36 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | I'm voting yes just because something needs to be done.
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Thank you!
| | The simplest solution is to remove the penalty that neutral feedbacks make on
a store or user's positive feedback score.
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Plese no, sorry.
Removing the Neutral "weight" (to the seller for ex) will hide more and more
unsatisfied buyers, because a shop with 500 neutrals will be the same as a shop
with 0 neutrals.
I know it's a stupid example.
But right now, decent feedbacks are what, from 98 to 100%?
A newbie buyer arrives here, he sees say "97%" in a shop, he thinkgs "that's
pretty good!".
When it's not.
We need more diversity, so we can have shops with 20%, 30%, 60%, 85% etc.
It'll be easier for a newbie to see that 20% appreciation seems darn low...
That's the idea.
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| | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 17:43 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Yes! It will also be a lot easier for a seller to see if he really is a "perfect"
seller. Currently, most sellers get 98%-99% positive feedback. With that amount,
why think about trying to improve areas that could need improvement? Maybe their
shipping time isn't the best, but not bad enough to deserve a neutral or
negative.
But with a 5 star system, a seller with slightly lower quality will see a lot
more 3-4 star ratings rather than 5, making them realize that while the majority
of their customers are satisfied with their service, if they improved their service
slightly in some way, they might be able to please their customers even more
and earn more repeat buyers.
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| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 17:46 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, firestar246 writes:
| | Yes! It will also be a lot easier for a seller to see if he really is a "perfect"
seller. Currently, most sellers get 98%-99% positive feedback. With that amount,
why think about trying to improve areas that could need improvement? Maybe their
shipping time isn't the best, but not bad enough to deserve a neutral or
negative.
But with a 5 star system, a seller with slightly lower quality will see a lot
more 3-4 star ratings rather than 5, making them realize that while the majority
of their customers are satisfied with their service, if they improved their service
slightly in some way, they might be able to please their customers even more
and earn more repeat buyers.
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Exactly the point - thanks FiVeStar 
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| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 18:06 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I forgot to talk about the textual part of the Feedback.
An annex proposal would be :
* 80+ text would still be allowed, and NOT moderated,
* but the text will be private to the other member.
This way:
* Text part would be OPTIONAL,
* NO moderation,
* NO complain, you can't ask to remove ANY Feedback for any reason,
* Transition to the new feedback would simply copy the existing texts to the
new ones.
In résumé:
* The star feedback will be public "Order 12345678 01/01/1970 whoever *****"
* The optional feedback text is for the other member's eyes only.
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| | | | | Author: | i_r_on | | Posted: | Feb 15, 2022 18:39 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| A star system is much more beneficial when divided into objective criterias instead
of general feeling of satisfaction which is more subjective.
Customer can rate,
- Purchased Items condition
- Packaging
- Shipping
- Communication
and so on...
Then I think sellers would be less inclined to correct their score with individual
buyers...
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| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 00:40 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| |
I propose a 0 + 5 Stars rating system.
In essence:
- 0 would correspond to "Zero service (or the current Negative)"
- 1 would mean "I received the minimal service"
- 2 to 4 stars would be something like "it's ok"
- 5 could be "exceptional".
|
How are we to train buyers and sellers to universally follow something like this?
Most buyers aren't going to read this and decide what feedback to leave according
to our standards. They are going to stick to whatever system they are most used
to.
It seems to me it would cause even more headaches than our Praise - Neutral -
Negative set-up. As someone already stated in this thread, most of the anxiety
about feedback can be solved in two simple ways:
1) Revamp the store's feedback percentage so Neutrals don't count as
negatives.
2) Allow for mutual cancellation of orders without any feedback.
Thanks,
Jen
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 16, 2022 04:34 | | Subject: | Re: A 0 + 5 Stars Feedback system for BrickLink | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| If they are going to make changes to feedback, then they are going to need to
think about what the point of feedback is. For me, the only real reason is ...
is a seller reliable.
My stance is buyer feedback is pointless. Sellers cannot stop buyers from buying
based on feedback (aside from overall negative), so buyers having feedback is
really just a badge to show how many orders they place. So why not get rid of
it completely, and just have an order count showing for buyers. NPBs exist for
buyers that don't pay. eBay's positive only for buyers is pretty pathetic.
There is no point to feedback if it can only be positive, just get rid of it
and show the order count instead. Otherwise buyer feedback is just a count of
how many sellers can be bothered to leave fairly pointless buyer feedback.
For sellers, a 5-star system is fine but if they are doing that then get rid
of positive and negative ratings. Just have an anonymous 5-star system for quality
of parts and level of service. Feedback could then just be shown as two numbers,
averaged over the last six months worth of sales (if above 10 or more) and blank
if the seller has not made that many sales. Volume could be shown as in "Ratings
averaged over 1063 sales in the past six months". Having anonymous ratings and
pos or neg is also weird. A buyer can put positive but then give 1 star on all
ratings to hide that s/he is marking down ratings.
If it is anonymous it will mean that buyers are free to leave 3 stars even if
they got their order but the seller charged significantly more postage than they
should have or used parts were yellowed.
And make the key score shown based on recent feedback only. No doubt some sellers
would be very unhappy that the feedback they have worked hard for disappears,
but do buyers really care that a seller successfully sold 5000 items 15 years
ago? They want to know what the seller is like now, not a decade or more ago.
There could still be a badge showing that the seller has dealt with X orders
and started selling Y years ago.
Only have one or two 5-star ratings. More than that and the amount of buyers
that can be bothered to leave feedback drops.
I cannot remember the last time I bothered to leave feedback on ebay as a buyer
unless it was negative, and never bother checking as a seller since they changed
to positive-only for buyers. That is also an issue with no buyer feedback too
of course, if a seller doesn't leave it for a buyer then will the buyer bother
to leave it for a seller. As for amazon, I don't think I have ever left it
for a store. I've done it for items but never for a store. I either get what
I ordered and leave it at that, or file a complaint via amazon.
And that is another issue too. If less feedback is left then negative / lower
rating ones will have more impact as people tend to leave feedback if negative
but not bother so much if it is just OK. Sellers will have to expect lower feedback
ratings even if nothing changes.
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USA, Texas
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