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| | | Author: | jenso  | | Posted: | Jan 24, 2022 14:38 | | Subject: | Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 222 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| Hi!
I recently saw an ad offering the below product.
Does anybody know if this is a fake item? Or did Lego actually produce this in
sand green?
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks!
Jens
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jan 24, 2022 14:47 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, jenso writes:
| | Hi!
I recently saw an ad offering the below product.
Does anybody know if this is a fake item? Or did Lego actually produce this in
sand green?
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Unless someone from TLG replies (which is unlikely) it looks fake to me. There
have been a number of licensed minifigures in unusual colors as of late, all
of which are counterfeit.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | crimson30 | | Posted: | Jan 24, 2022 14:52 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 104 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| | | all of which are counterfeit.
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Is there something establishing that, for example, the Vader helmets did not
come from a Lego factory?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 24, 2022 15:03 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 96 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, crimson30 writes:
| | | | all of which are counterfeit.
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Is there something establishing that, for example, the Vader helmets did not
come from a Lego factory?
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For transparent and glow colours:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1322014
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | crimson30 | | Posted: | Jan 24, 2022 15:13 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 92 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| Perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic, but "counterfeit" has a specific meaning
and at least some connotation of being a forgery to me. The post you linked
to does not answer my specific question. I get that if made by a Lego employee
on the sly, it would be theft. My question, more specifically: is there evidence
that it was not made on Lego equipment?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Jan 24, 2022 15:47 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, crimson30 writes:
| | Perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic, but "counterfeit" has a specific meaning
and at least some connotation of being a forgery to me. The post you linked
to does not answer my specific question. I get that if made by a Lego employee
on the sly, it would be theft. My question, more specifically: is there evidence
that it was not made on Lego equipment?
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I think that "counterfeit" is not the right word. The word Russell used in that
thread was "illegitimate".
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Jan 24, 2022 16:28 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 98 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, crimson30 writes:
| | Perhaps I'm being a bit pedantic, but "counterfeit" has a specific meaning
and at least some connotation of being a forgery to me. The post you linked
to does not answer my specific question. I get that if made by a Lego employee
on the sly, it would be theft. My question, more specifically: is there evidence
that it was not made on Lego equipment?
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I think that the onus should be on the seller to provide evidence that it was
made legitimately. Particularly when some sellers were listing dozens of Vader
helmets in each of Trans Blue, Trans Purple, trans Orange, Trans Pink etc.
The illegitimate or counterfeit parts apparently had all to lego trademarks etc.
to make them almost indistinguishable from genuine, legitimate parts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Jan 25, 2022 10:57 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| You seem, as so many others, to confuse "counterfeit" with "illegitimate" items.
Those parts you speak of are not counterfeit: they have been produced
in Lego factories using official Lego equipment.
They have been produced without license however which makes them illegitimate,
hence the post from Admin Russell statint such offerings will be deleted from
the platform.
I have yet to see counterfeit Lego parts that are indistinguishable from the
genuine ones considering the markings.
However, in the question if one could distinguish these items from officially
produced parts the answer is quite suimple: there is no difference. All of them
are real Lego parts. Just as real as all those test bricks and red test parts
you can still find for sale.
I don't think Lego has a problem with items like that being sold as usually
they are very limited in quantities.
However, it's clear there's now a serious market for parts being produced
in unofficial colors, most probably done illegally by factory workers.
I get that Lego is trying to put a stop to such activities, but practices like
this are also happening with other brands.
Perhaps it's one of the down sides of moving your production to low wage
countries where making a few Dollars on a few plastic parts on the side means
big bucks for their employees ... food for thought IMO.
Erikk
In Off Topic, calebfishn writes:
| |
I think that the onus should be on the seller to provide evidence that it was
made legitimately. Particularly when some sellers were listing dozens of Vader
helmets in each of Trans Blue, Trans Purple, trans Orange, Trans Pink etc.
The illegitimate or counterfeit parts apparently had all to lego trademarks etc.
to make them almost indistinguishable from genuine, legitimate parts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BigBBricks | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2022 17:26 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, Erkiles writes:
| | You seem, as so many others, to confuse "counterfeit" with "illegitimate" items.
Those parts you speak of are not counterfeit: they have been produced
in Lego factories using official Lego equipment.
They have been produced without license however which makes them illegitimate,
hence the post from Admin Russell statint such offerings will be deleted from
the platform.
I have yet to see counterfeit Lego parts that are indistinguishable from the
genuine ones considering the markings.
However, in the question if one could distinguish these items from officially
produced parts the answer is quite suimple: there is no difference. All of them
are real Lego parts. Just as real as all those test bricks and red test parts
you can still find for sale.
I don't think Lego has a problem with items like that being sold as usually
they are very limited in quantities.
However, it's clear there's now a serious market for parts being produced
in unofficial colors, most probably done illegally by factory workers.
I get that Lego is trying to put a stop to such activities, but practices like
this are also happening with other brands.
Perhaps it's one of the down sides of moving your production to low wage
countries where making a few Dollars on a few plastic parts on the side means
big bucks for their employees ... food for thought IMO.
Erikk
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+1
I think that it is important that people realize that these transparent and colored
parts in question were not fakes, these were all made with LEGO plastic, inside
a LEGO factory, on LEGO equipment, with LEGO molds and made by LEGO trained and
employed peoples. They made their way out of the factory, the same way as marbled
bricks or red test elements do, illegally, but in much larger quantities than
before.
The bigger issue that has not been discussed prior to this is why this is happening
now and it hasn't, as much, in the past. Erkiles point that this is happening
in two locations now where LEGO placed factories and the local economy or custom
doesn't flow with TLG rules.
1) Factories placed in countries where the corruption is common and poverty is
high
2) Factories placed in countries where they do not respect trademarks/patents
It doesn't take a crystal ball to know what is going to happen.
Maybe LEGO should tour the area outside their factory in Monterrey and see all
their internal employee sets and elements for sale in order to realize they may
need to make some changes. I know some of this because the employee holiday X-Wing
were selling for $25 each and a friend and former seller here on BL purchased
150 of them in bulk.
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In Off Topic, calebfishn writes:
| |
I think that the onus should be on the seller to provide evidence that it was
made legitimately. Particularly when some sellers were listing dozens of Vader
helmets in each of Trans Blue, Trans Purple, trans Orange, Trans Pink etc.
The illegitimate or counterfeit parts apparently had all to lego trademarks etc.
to make them almost indistinguishable from genuine, legitimate parts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2022 17:53 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, BigBBricks writes:
| | […]
I know some of this because the employee holiday X-Wing
were selling for $25 each and a friend and former seller here on BL purchased
150 of them in bulk.
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Hmm, are you saying someone stole that many of them and then sold them to your
friend or are you saying the employees were selling theirs?
If it’s the latter, they are gifts, people can do whatever they want with them
and you can buy and sell them on BrickLink.
(And considering for how much these are sold, it’s rather sad that the employees
only got $25.)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BigBBricks | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2022 17:58 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Off Topic, BigBBricks writes:
| | […]
I know some of this because the employee holiday X-Wing
were selling for $25 each and a friend and former seller here on BL purchased
150 of them in bulk.
|
Hmm, are you saying someone stole that many of them and then sold them to your
friend or are you saying the employees were selling theirs?
If it’s the latter, they are gifts, people can do whatever they want with them
and you can buy and sell them on BrickLink.
(And considering for how much these are sold, it’s rather sad that the employees
only got $25.)
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No. I am saying that employees sold their gifts to a vendor and said vendor was
selling them for $25 each and my friend bought a lot of them. I am also saying
that marble and red test elements are stolen from LEGO. So if the blasters are
banned, why not these too? Not saying they should be, just questioning why certain
elements and not others. Is it an IP thing?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2022 22:23 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| "Fake, illegitimate, counterfeit" or whatever you call them. The point is, that
they should not be sold on Bricklink because they were not issued by Lego.
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| | | | | | | Author: | BigBBricks | | Posted: | Jan 27, 2022 22:58 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, cosmicray writes:
| | In Off Topic, jenso writes:
| | Hi!
I recently saw an ad offering the below product.
Does anybody know if this is a fake item? Or did Lego actually produce this in
sand green?
|
Unless someone from TLG replies (which is unlikely) it looks fake to me. There
have been a number of licensed minifigures in unusual colors as of late, all
of which are counterfeit.
Nita Rae
|
The issue wasn't that the figures were counterfeit, it was that LEGO lost
control of their parts which were made within their factory, using their plastic
and molds by employees they trained. Employees that were producing elements that
they shouldn't have and just like any employee of LEGO that sneaks out marbled
elements or elements in test colors, they are not officially released elements
but they are still LEGO.
The items highlighted recently are subject to IP which I believe is the real
issue. A sensible path for a company who wants to maintain IP control would be
to investigate internally at the factory in question, shut down the process,
clear the local vendors of the items then buy any existing lots on BrickLink/eBay/etc.
What happened is that BrickLink took this and amplified it and now the Streisand
effect has come in.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2022 03:14 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| .
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The items highlighted recently are subject to IP which I believe is the real
issue. A sensible path for a company who wants to maintain IP control would be
to investigate internally at the factory in question, shut down the process,
clear the local vendors of the items then buy any existing lots on BrickLink/eBay/etc.
What happened is that BrickLink took this and amplified it and now the Streisand
effect has come in.
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Why buy them? They are just encouraging sellers to get more if they do that.
Better to just instantly ban any seller that tries to sell them here. They cannot
stop them selling elsewhere, which is what these sellers are continuing to do.
It is better to make it clear that these are illegitimate, stolen items. And
people that display them in their collections condone theft if it means they
can have them in their collections. It is the collector / buyer that ultimately
is responsible for the production and theft of the parts.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Jan 28, 2022 06:35 | | Subject: | Re: Unknown element - Chewbacca in sand green | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Off Topic | |
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| In Off Topic, BigBBricks writes:
| | In Off Topic, cosmicray writes:
| | In Off Topic, jenso writes:
| | Hi!
I recently saw an ad offering the below product.
Does anybody know if this is a fake item? Or did Lego actually produce this in
sand green?
|
Unless someone from TLG replies (which is unlikely) it looks fake to me. There
have been a number of licensed minifigures in unusual colors as of late, all
of which are counterfeit.
Nita Rae
|
The issue wasn't that the figures were counterfeit, it was that LEGO lost
control of their parts which were made within their factory, using their plastic
and molds by employees they trained. Employees that were producing elements that
they shouldn't have and just like any employee of LEGO that sneaks out marbled
elements or elements in test colors, they are not officially released elements
but they are still LEGO.
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Where has any of that been documented, and in a way that isn't idle gossip
and hearsay ?
I have seen 16x16 plates, which are totally independently produced, by firms
other than TLG, and are every bit as good a quality as what TLG produces.
Your argument above seems to be that no-one outside of a TLG facility could have
produced them, so that must be where it happened. I'd like to see more evidence
of that being the real story.
Nita Rae
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