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| | | Author: | helge  | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 09:41 | | Subject: | "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 408 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
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| | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 09:50 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
For some paypal countries, proof of shipment is enough. So if you still have
the receipt from the post office, you might not get hit with a paypal claim.
Paypal will still refund the buyer, but it wont come out of your funds. And there
should be an appeal system to negative feedback. But you can leave a reply to
the negative feedback right?
Just wondering, did you check the buyer feedback before sending?
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| | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:00 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | |
For some paypal countries, proof of shipment is enough. So if you still have
the receipt from the post office, you might not get hit with a paypal claim.
Paypal will still refund the buyer, but it wont come out of your funds. And there
should be an appeal system to negative feedback. But you can leave a reply to
the negative feedback right?
|
No, proof of shipping is not enough. And if I try to fight the Paypal claim,
they give me a 15 EUR (or about that) fee for doing so. And they do of course
not refund the original Paypal fee. I can, and will, respond with a negative
feedback, but he has so many already, that he will not care about that.
| |
Just wondering, did you check the buyer feedback before sending?
|
No, I have never had a habit of doing that.
Regards,
Helge
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| | | | | Author: | Nicolasamico37 | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 09:53 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| A seller with at least 3 negative feedbacks can have its store closed.
But what can be done for a buyer with negative feedbacks ?
I've bought (only) twice from you and was happy at all time 
Nicolas
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:10 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Nicolasamico37 writes:
| | A seller with at least 3 negative feedbacks can have its store closed.
|
No it cannot. It is 3 completed non-shipping seller or non-responding seller
complaints. It is not just based on negative feedback as no evidence is sought
there.
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| | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:10 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Nicolasamico37 writes:
| | A seller with at least 3 negative feedbacks can have its store closed.
But what can be done for a buyer with negative feedbacks ?
|
Nothing. I have in the past tried to do NPB's in cases like this, but BrickLink
will not let sellers do that. As long as the buyer has paid, Bricklink does to
care what happens after that. Only if you can give proof to Bricklink that the
buyer has deliberately not picked up the package at their post office, will they
let you do a NPB after a Paypal payment reversal.
| | I've bought (only) twice from you and was happy at all time
|
Thanks! 
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:01 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
First, I'm sorry to hear this happened to you. It would seem that a few buyers
are targeting those who do not, or can not, always use tracking.
As you eventually determined that this particular buyer is problematic, would
you have abandoned the order earlier had you seen that ? Few sellers inspect
buyers feedback, to see if the buyer is likely to cause problems.
As BL has grown, the number of problem buyers has also crept up.
I have made a number of suggestions to help sellers better determine, and respond
to, the risk of a transaction.
Link to access counter-FB
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1233827
IC: accept order or decline order
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1303724
Show number of Canceled order for buyers
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1010652
PayPal/Stripe 1-step vs 2-step
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1304728
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:21 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | First, I'm sorry to hear this happened to you. It would seem that a few buyers
are targeting those who do not, or can not, always use tracking.
As you eventually determined that this particular buyer is problematic, would
you have abandoned the order earlier had you seen that ? Few sellers inspect
buyers feedback, to see if the buyer is likely to cause problems.
|
Not sure really. Had I cancelled the order, I would probably have received a
negative feedback for that too.
Good suggestions, but I am not sure if it is worth it to implement. While it
is very annoying when you run into situations like this, I have had nearly 28000
transactions on Bricklink now, and only had a handfull of negative experiences
like this. If I loose 50 USD every half year, that is well within what I can
afford.
Regards,
Helge
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| | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:17 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| PayPal is completely incompatible with untracked shipping, but it sounds like
you know this and have built the cost of fraudulent claims into your prices.
If you fight a PayPal claim you will be charged a $15 US fee, which is likely
more than the cost of the order itself and you will lose if there is no tracking
number.
Only thing I can suggest is to tell the buyer that if a claim is filed, call
PayPal and ask them to look at the buyer's account. If the buyer has a high
number of claims versus purchases you might get lucky. Based on the buyer feedback
you quoted, it sounds like they do this often.
In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:27 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, zorbanj writes:
| | PayPal is completely incompatible with untracked shipping, but it sounds like
you know this and have built the cost of fraudulent claims into your prices.
|
I have
| | If you fight a PayPal claim you will be charged a $15 US fee, which is likely
more than the cost of the order itself and you will lose if there is no tracking
number.
|
Correct.
| |
Only thing I can suggest is to tell the buyer that if a claim is filed, call
PayPal and ask them to look at the buyer's account. If the buyer has a high
number of claims versus purchases you might get lucky. Based on the buyer feedback
you quoted, it sounds like they do this often.
|
I actually did that once, though not with the exact same situation. They came
back to me within minutes as agreed that it was a scam, that the person had done
the same to others, and that they now had closed his account so that he could
not make more payments. But when I asked if they would stop the payment reversal,
they said "No, we will complete the refund. But you may ask him to resend the
payment afterwards"...
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | dcarmine | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 11:06 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, helge writes:
| | In Selling, zorbanj writes:
| | PayPal is completely incompatible with untracked shipping, but it sounds like
you know this and have built the cost of fraudulent claims into your prices.
|
I have
| | If you fight a PayPal claim you will be charged a $15 US fee, which is likely
more than the cost of the order itself and you will lose if there is no tracking
number.
|
Correct.
| |
Only thing I can suggest is to tell the buyer that if a claim is filed, call
PayPal and ask them to look at the buyer's account. If the buyer has a high
number of claims versus purchases you might get lucky. Based on the buyer feedback
you quoted, it sounds like they do this often.
|
I actually did that once, though not with the exact same situation. They came
back to me within minutes as agreed that it was a scam, that the person had done
the same to others, and that they now had closed his account so that he could
not make more payments. But when I asked if they would stop the payment reversal,
they said "No, we will complete the refund. But you may ask him to resend the
payment afterwards"...
|
How is the buyer going to resend the payment after PayPal closes their account?
Doesn't make sense.
Donna
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 11:07 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| It's PayPal, logic will only get you so far 
In Selling, dcarmine writes:
| | | |
I actually did that once, though not with the exact same situation. They came
back to me within minutes as agreed that it was a scam, that the person had done
the same to others, and that they now had closed his account so that he could
not make more payments. But when I asked if they would stop the payment reversal,
they said "No, we will complete the refund. But you may ask him to resend the
payment afterwards"...
|
How is the buyer going to resend the payment after PayPal closes their account?
Doesn't make sense.
Donna
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 11:12 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| | |
How is the buyer going to resend the payment after PayPal closes their account?
Doesn't make sense.
Donna
|
I asked them that. They did not answer. Paypal has been getting worse and worse
for sellers over the years.
Helge
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 11:06 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| That's unfortunate, but you took the time to have a bad buyer shut down and
I commend you for that.
You could call PayPal now, maybe something can be done before the claim is opened.
In Selling, helge writes:
| | | |
Only thing I can suggest is to tell the buyer that if a claim is filed, call
PayPal and ask them to look at the buyer's account. If the buyer has a high
number of claims versus purchases you might get lucky. Based on the buyer feedback
you quoted, it sounds like they do this often.
|
I actually did that once, though not with the exact same situation. They came
back to me within minutes as agreed that it was a scam, that the person had done
the same to others, and that they now had closed his account so that he could
not make more payments. But when I asked if they would stop the payment reversal,
they said "No, we will complete the refund. But you may ask him to resend the
payment afterwards"...
|
|
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| | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:35 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
Been thinking, you should actually write to him exactly what you wrote here.
Tell him he's a fraud and that you got him figured out. Tell him he will
open a claim for NR with Paypal but that you have already informed Paypal, and
actually call them and tell them in advance he is going to file a claim. Just
call him out, what more do you have to lose? Just try and make it as difficult
possible for him. Inform BL and report him, get his account closed. Call the
courier and recall the package if possible. This guy seems to keep making victims
and BL has a responsibility here. Maybe name and shame on the forum so everyone
can stop list him. Etc etc.
|
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:39 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Poncke writes:
| | In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
Been thinking, you should actually write to him exactly what you wrote here.
Tell him he's a fraud and that you got him figured out. Tell him he will
open a claim for NR with Paypal but that you have already informed Paypal, and
actually call them and tell them in advance he is going to file a claim. Just
call him out, what more do you have to lose? Just try and make it as difficult
possible for him. Inform BL and report him, get his account closed. Call the
courier and recall the package if possible. This guy seems to keep making victims
and BL has a responsibility here. Maybe name and shame on the forum so everyone
can stop list him. Etc etc.
|
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=126
When feedback is posted and received it's easy to figure out who it is.
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:48 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Brickwilbo writes:
Cheers didn't mean to break any rules, mijn excuses. Feel to moderate.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Poncke | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 10:49 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Poncke writes:
| | In Selling, Brickwilbo writes:
|
Cheers didn't mean to break any rules, mijn excuses. Feel *free to moderate.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | dcarmine | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 11:15 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Selling, Poncke writes:
| | In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
Been thinking, you should actually write to him exactly what you wrote here.
Tell him he's a fraud and that you got him figured out. Tell him he will
open a claim for NR with Paypal but that you have already informed Paypal, and
actually call them and tell them in advance he is going to file a claim. Just
call him out, what more do you have to lose? Just try and make it as difficult
possible for him. Inform BL and report him, get his account closed. Call the
courier and recall the package if possible. This guy seems to keep making victims
and BL has a responsibility here. Maybe name and shame on the forum so everyone
can stop list him. Etc etc.
|
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=126
When feedback is posted and received it's easy to figure out who it is.
|
It's true you can figure it out. The terms of use of the forum do not include
sharing a username. I'd be interested in knowing the username of this "buyer".
Donna
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 11:52 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 103 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
|
| In Selling, dcarmine writes:
| | In Selling, Brickwilbo writes:
| | In Selling, Poncke writes:
| | In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
Been thinking, you should actually write to him exactly what you wrote here.
Tell him he's a fraud and that you got him figured out. Tell him he will
open a claim for NR with Paypal but that you have already informed Paypal, and
actually call them and tell them in advance he is going to file a claim. Just
call him out, what more do you have to lose? Just try and make it as difficult
possible for him. Inform BL and report him, get his account closed. Call the
courier and recall the package if possible. This guy seems to keep making victims
and BL has a responsibility here. Maybe name and shame on the forum so everyone
can stop list him. Etc etc.
|
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=126
When feedback is posted and received it's easy to figure out who it is.
|
It's true you can figure it out. The terms of use of the forum do not include
sharing a username. I'd be interested in knowing the username of this "buyer".
Donna
|
Following the original OP's message, I could easily find the buyer thanks
to google.
But I could not add him to my stoplist because he was already stoplisted!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | S_H_M | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 11:18 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, SezaR writes:
| |
Following the original OP's message, I could easily find the buyer thanks
to google.
But I could not add him to my stoplist because he was already stoplisted!
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euh ... can you explain that ...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 15:15 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, S_H_M writes:
| | In Selling, SezaR writes:
| |
Following the original OP's message, I could easily find the buyer thanks
to google.
But I could not add him to my stoplist because he was already stoplisted!
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euh ... can you explain that ...
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likely a second account was merged into one that was already on the stoplist.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Llewyn | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 16:23 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, cosmicray writes:
| | likely a second account was merged into one that was already on the stoplist.
Nita Rae
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I just assumed that, having identified the account the OP had a problem with,
he found it was somebody he'd already stoplisted for some other reason -
possibly somebody else's forum post about them in the past.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 16:52 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Llewyn writes:
| | In Selling, cosmicray writes:
| | likely a second account was merged into one that was already on the stoplist.
Nita Rae
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I just assumed that, having identified the account the OP had a problem with,
he found it was somebody he'd already stoplisted for some other reason -
possibly somebody else's forum post about them in the past.
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Correct!
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| | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Dec 9, 2021 11:18 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| No, if you want to know the buyers name, message the original poster privately
and ask for it.
In Selling, Poncke writes:
| | Maybe name and shame on the forum so everyone can stop list him. Etc etc.
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 14:23 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 87 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
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This is why Bricklink seriously needs to start recording the number of ONRs (order
not received reports) in user profiles. Now a buyer will get the benefit of the
doubt and a refund every single time. You need to see the whole picture to discover
the scammers. Bricklink is sitting on that information but doesn't appear
to do much with it.
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| | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 16:39 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | This is why Bricklink seriously needs to start recording the number of ONRs (order
not received reports) in user profiles. Now a buyer will get the benefit of the
doubt and a refund every single time. You need to see the whole picture to discover
the scammers. Bricklink is sitting on that information but doesn't appear
to do much with it.
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I don't know if they have that information quantified though.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Gaston.La.Brick | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 17:04 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | This is why Bricklink seriously needs to start recording the number of ONRs (order
not received reports) in user profiles. Now a buyer will get the benefit of the
doubt and a refund every single time. You need to see the whole picture to discover
the scammers. Bricklink is sitting on that information but doesn't appear
to do much with it.
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I don't know if they have that information quantified though.
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Not yet, as there is no way to indicate the status of an order is "shipped, reported
not received, refunded". Step 1 would be to enable such status recording.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Dec 11, 2021 07:19 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, Teup writes:
| | This is why Bricklink seriously needs to start recording the number of ONRs (order
not received reports) in user profiles. Now a buyer will get the benefit of the
doubt and a refund every single time. You need to see the whole picture to discover
the scammers. Bricklink is sitting on that information but doesn't appear
to do much with it.
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I don't know if they have that information quantified though.
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Not yet, but it would be easy to start doing it.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Gaston.La.Brick | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 16:49 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | This is why Bricklink seriously needs to start recording the number of ONRs (order
not received reports) in user profiles. Now a buyer will get the benefit of the
doubt and a refund every single time. You need to see the whole picture to discover
the scammers. Bricklink is sitting on that information but doesn't appear
to do much with it.
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I absolutely agree
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 17:09 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | In Selling, helge writes:
| | You know that the package will end up being "lost" when this is the first communication
you receive from a buyer:
"It has been 2 weeks since you claimed you shipped this order and have not recieved
it yet. Since you are not able to give me a tracking number I will have to start
a claim if O\I do not get it by friday."
And when you check his feedback you see that he has a long list of negative feedbacks
and is described as "1 of the worst buyers and sellers on Bricklink", "Compulsive
liar.", "very rude" (multiple times), "Lowsy Buyer", "100% unreasonable buyer"
and "Crazy Swindler" among other things.
Strange that it is only when a buyer has this attitude that packages gets lost.
Thankfully most buyers are nice, honest and decent people. When a buyer is patient
and understanding over a delayed shipment, it always shows up sooner or later.
But when the buyers starts to send threats after two weeks, it is a near 100%
guaranty that the package will be lost, or rather: "lost"
And yes, I know that some will respond with "always send with tracking", but
that is too expensive here for low value shipments, and I do not want to punish
all the honest buyers for the actions of the very few dishonest ones.
This was just a small order, so no real consequents, but this will end in a negative
feedback, completed Paypal claim, and the buyer gets away with theft. And he
will continue to do the same to other sellers.
Regards,
Helge
|
This is why Bricklink seriously needs to start recording the number of ONRs (order
not received reports) in user profiles. Now a buyer will get the benefit of the
doubt and a refund every single time. You need to see the whole picture to discover
the scammers. Bricklink is sitting on that information but doesn't appear
to do much with it.
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How would they record it? A buyer is unlikely to supply that information and
unless the seller proves they have had to refund through PayPal, the seller can't.
Plus would LEGO make that information about an individual public?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 17:56 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | How would they record it? A buyer is unlikely to supply that information and
unless the seller proves they have had to refund through PayPal, the seller can't.
Plus would LEGO make that information about an individual public?
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I don't think it should be made public but I do think that a seller should
be able to make such a report, perhaps when issuing a refund - BL could just
add a reason like "seller states item was shipped, buyer reports lost in transit"
or something. A buyer's account could then be suspended if this is a frequent
occurrence.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Dec 10, 2021 18:09 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 88 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | How would they record it? A buyer is unlikely to supply that information and
unless the seller proves they have had to refund through PayPal, the seller can't.
Plus would LEGO make that information about an individual public?
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I don't think it should be made public but I do think that a seller should
be able to make such a report, perhaps when issuing a refund - BL could just
add a reason like "seller states item was shipped, buyer reports lost in transit"
or something. A buyer's account could then be suspended if this is a frequent
occurrence.
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I understand the theory here, but what is the penalty, and how would you enforce
it ?
BL has a fairly wide open front door. Other than massively egregious individuals,
I don't think they are blocking anyone. How do you determine when a penalty
applies, and how do you enforce it ? In a risk-averse trading system, you would
(in theory) apply a risk rating to all parties involved (sellers and buyers)
then apply a risk-premium when any party shows signs of repeat problems. Perhaps
all traders will pay a minimal risk-premium (e.g. 0.1%), with the understanding
that the risk-pool will be used to make whole transactions that go bad.
Members that engage in risky trading practices, and have many problems, might
see their risk-premium rise.
Every package I send out has tracking. I am extremely averse to shipping via
freight forwarders, and because the tracking I generate does not follow the package
all the way to the recipient. All these unusual/atypical situations need to be
considered in solving this conundrum.
Nita Rae
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Dec 11, 2021 07:30 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | In Selling, peregrinator writes:
| | In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | How would they record it? A buyer is unlikely to supply that information and
unless the seller proves they have had to refund through PayPal, the seller can't.
Plus would LEGO make that information about an individual public?
|
I don't think it should be made public but I do think that a seller should
be able to make such a report, perhaps when issuing a refund - BL could just
add a reason like "seller states item was shipped, buyer reports lost in transit"
or something. A buyer's account could then be suspended if this is a frequent
occurrence.
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I haven't sold on BrickOwl for a while but from what I recall that's
how they do it, yes.
In Selling, cosmicray writes:
| | I understand the theory here, but what is the penalty, and how would you enforce
it ?
|
For one thing it would definitely help me in the decision whether or not to refund
a lost order. If a buyer has 10 such reports marked on their account, I'm
just not going to do it. In the case of PayPal payment, it could help defending
the seller's position. But yes it is tricky, also because there can be several
reasons why a user has unusually many reports: a high score does not necessarily
mean "this is a scammer" - it could also mean "this guy's address is incomplete"
or "the mailman hates this guy". (Consumers have rights, but they also have an
obligation to make sure they are capable of receiving mail normally, so whatever
the reason, I think a seller shouldn't have to refund someone who's claiming
on a weekly basis)
I remember two cases on BrickOwl, initiated by me asking about a user or the
admin starting investigating something on their own initiative and reaching out
to sellers to warn them. From the admin's perspective it's often extremely
easy to put two and two together if they have access to a user's full track
record. I'm not 100% sure either on how such a feature should work, but I
know there's a lot of untapped potential there, as it can be really frustrating/impossible
to gauge what's really going on on the buyer's end for an individual
seller.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bricksinbins | | Posted: | Dec 13, 2021 08:07 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Teup writes:
| |
For one thing it would definitely help me in the decision whether or not to refund
a lost order. If a buyer has 10 such reports marked on their account, I'm
just not going to do it. In the case of PayPal payment, it could help defending
the seller's position. But yes it is tricky, also because there can be several
reasons why a user has unusually many reports: a high score does not necessarily
mean "this is a scammer" - it could also mean "this guy's address is incomplete"
or "the mailman hates this guy". (Consumers have rights, but they also have an
obligation to make sure they are capable of receiving mail normally, so whatever
the reason, I think a seller shouldn't have to refund someone who's claiming
on a weekly basis)
I remember two cases on BrickOwl, initiated by me asking about a user or the
admin starting investigating something on their own initiative and reaching out
to sellers to warn them. From the admin's perspective it's often extremely
easy to put two and two together if they have access to a user's full track
record. I'm not 100% sure either on how such a feature should work, but I
know there's a lot of untapped potential there, as it can be really frustrating/impossible
to gauge what's really going on on the buyer's end for an individual
seller.
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At the very least, with ONR information I can make the decision to simply not
sell to that individual if it's a high risk of just ending up being a loss.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Dec 13, 2021 08:55 | | Subject: | Re: "lost" package rant | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Teup writes:
| | But yes it is tricky, also because there can be several
reasons why a user has unusually many reports: a high score does not necessarily
mean "this is a scammer" - it could also mean "this guy's address is incomplete"
or "the mailman hates this guy". (Consumers have rights, but they also have an
obligation to make sure they are capable of receiving mail normally, so whatever
the reason, I think a seller shouldn't have to refund someone who's claiming
on a weekly basis)
|
In the case of packages to Mexico, I have had buyers (on another site) specifically
tell me they would give me a FedEx number, as the postal system down there (at
least back then) was so rife with fraud. One of older counter clerks at my local
post office (may she rest in peace) once told me that they had a lot of packages
to Mexico go lost.
So it is not so much the specific buyer, but it can be packages (in general)
going to a particular country. The point remains, if the data rolls up to indicate
a big problem with inbound to Mexico, and via the regular postal system, then
sellers should be able to access that information and make an informed decision.
Based on order number progression, BL is turning ~8700 orders per day, or roughly
260k per month. That is a substantial amount of data that could be useful to
sellers.
Nita Rae
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Norway
Ireland, Meath
France, Centre-Val de Loire
United Kingdom, England
USA, Florida
Netherlands, Gelderland
Canada, British Columbia
Belgium
Finland, Pohjanmaa