|
 |
| | | Author: | TDH_Bricks  | | Posted: | Nov 22, 2021 05:01 | | Subject: | Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 179 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Hello,
just recognized there is implemented Distance selling / OSS registration on the
Store Management Page already.
As I did not see any official announcement about this up to now, can you please
confirm this can be used now (switch it ON and insert OSS registration data and
file)?
And how is the recalculation to EU recipient country VAT rate done?
PS: Because of the ordering "Technical Error" discussed last few days on the
Forum we tried to switch it ON and fill in requested data. Today one EU order
was received and it seems there is no recalculation of VAT from our VAT rate
to recipient VAT rate but only calculation of recipient VAT amount from order
total. This would mean the VAT difference is on our store account what is not
good and we will switch this off. 
Thank you.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Nov 22, 2021 06:01 | | Subject: | Re: Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Hello,
just recognized there is implemented Distance selling / OSS registration on the
Store Management Page already.
As I did not see any official announcement about this up to now, can you please
confirm this can be used now (switch it ON and insert OSS registration data and
file)?
And how is the recalculation to EU recipient country VAT rate done?
PS: Because of the ordering "Technical Error" discussed last few days on the
Forum we tried to switch it ON and fill in requested data. Today one EU order
was received and it seems there is no recalculation of VAT from our VAT rate
to recipient VAT rate but only calculation of recipient VAT amount from order
total. This would mean the VAT difference is on our store account what is not
good and we will switch this off.
Thank you.
|
Interesting.
Maybe it is not enabled until someone at BL verifies it, so you probably have
to wait for it to work.
But seems it is worded as foreign countries shops, it doesn't mention VAT-Rate
per country selling within the EU.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Nov 22, 2021 08:48 | | Subject: | Re: Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Stellar writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Hello,
just recognized there is implemented Distance selling / OSS registration on the
Store Management Page already.
As I did not see any official announcement about this up to now, can you please
confirm this can be used now (switch it ON and insert OSS registration data and
file)?
And how is the recalculation to EU recipient country VAT rate done?
PS: Because of the ordering "Technical Error" discussed last few days on the
Forum we tried to switch it ON and fill in requested data. Today one EU order
was received and it seems there is no recalculation of VAT from our VAT rate
to recipient VAT rate but only calculation of recipient VAT amount from order
total. This would mean the VAT difference is on our store account what is not
good and we will switch this off.
Thank you.
|
Interesting.
Maybe it is not enabled until someone at BL verifies it, so you probably have
to wait for it to work.
But seems it is worded as foreign countries shops, it doesn't mention VAT-Rate
per country selling within the EU.
|
I don't get it. I think the descriptions are off..
"Distance selling are sales made from one EU country to a different EU country."
Ok,
"Distance selling is disabled"
Huh? I am literally selling to other EU countries today. Did they mean "OSS is
disabled?"
"You must complete the VAT registration verification in order to begin distance
selling in an EU country."
Uhm, I am VAT registered and verified, but this setting is about OSS. I think
they meant "you must complete the OSS registration verification?"
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 22, 2021 09:17 | | Subject: | Re: Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Teup writes:
| | […]
I don't get it. I think the descriptions are off..
"Distance selling are sales made from one EU country to a different EU country."
Ok,
"Distance selling is disabled"
Huh? I am literally selling to other EU countries today. Did they mean "OSS is
disabled?"
|
It means “Distance selling using the buyer’s VAT rate is disabled,” as you are
not obligated to use an OSS but can be registered in the other countries (as
the two options below corretly show).
They are just calling the whole feature “Distance Selling.”
| | "You must complete the VAT registration verification in order to begin distance
selling in an EU country."
Uhm, I am VAT registered and verified, but this setting is about OSS. I think
they meant "you must complete the OSS registration verification?"
|
This sentence is above the choice, so it works for both options, and the second
option is a real VAT registration (or even several).
Also, registering to the OSS can be seen as being VAT-registered for all the
EU countries¹.
So it’s a VAT-registration in both cases 
(¹ But your own, in which, IIUC, you may still not have to be VAT-registered
in your own country to be registered on the OSS.)
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Nov 22, 2021 09:54 | | Subject: | Re: Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Help, Teup writes:
| | […]
I don't get it. I think the descriptions are off..
"Distance selling are sales made from one EU country to a different EU country."
Ok,
"Distance selling is disabled"
Huh? I am literally selling to other EU countries today. Did they mean "OSS is
disabled?"
|
It means “Distance selling using the buyer’s VAT rate is disabled,” as you are
not obligated to use an OSS but can be registered in the other countries (as
the two options below corretly show).
They are just calling the whole feature “Distance Selling.”
|
Ok, makes sense, except that first line ruins it, where they directly mis-define
their terminology  "Distance selling are sales made from one EU country to
a different EU country." Guess they should add "... using the VAT rate of the
country of the buyer"
| |
| | "You must complete the VAT registration verification in order to begin distance
selling in an EU country."
Uhm, I am VAT registered and verified, but this setting is about OSS. I think
they meant "you must complete the OSS registration verification?"
|
This sentence is above the choice, so it works for both options, and the second
option is a real VAT registration (or even several).
Also, registering to the OSS can be seen as being VAT-registered for all the
EU countries¹.
So it’s a VAT-registration in both cases
(¹ But your own, in which, IIUC, you may still not have to be VAT-registered
in your own country to be registered on the OSS.)
|
Actually it says:
"Distance selling is disabled
You must complete the VAT registration verification in order to begin distance
selling in an EU country."
I guess it means...
"Distance selling using local VAT rates is disabled
Youy must complete both the VAT registration verification and OSS registration
verification to begin distance selling using local VAT rates"
Bit of an amendment, hope it's really what they meant.. and hope they remember
to EXCLUDE VAT when establishing the €10.000 limit (which, by the way, should
actually be this year's sales, not last year's)
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | EmblaRonja | | Posted: | Nov 22, 2021 14:24 | | Subject: | Re: Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| And no news about us selling with the margin scheme rules?
I’m not allowed from my tax authorities to use OSS or to declare VAT on any order
as it’s not the actual single sale that is creating VAT.
And yes I am VAT registered.
And yes I have well passed the 10 000 euro limit.
Still nothing from BrickLink about this? Just afraid they will close my store
any day ....
/Niclas
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | kaat | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2021 04:57 | | Subject: | BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Hello,
just recognized there is implemented Distance selling / OSS registration on the
Store Management Page already.
As I did not see any official announcement about this up to now, can you please
confirm this can be used now (switch it ON and insert OSS registration data and
file)?
And how is the recalculation to EU recipient country VAT rate done?
PS: Because of the ordering "Technical Error" discussed last few days on the
Forum we tried to switch it ON and fill in requested data. Today one EU order
was received and it seems there is no recalculation of VAT from our VAT rate
to recipient VAT rate but only calculation of recipient VAT amount from order
total. This would mean the VAT difference is on our store account what is not
good and we will switch this off.
Thank you.
|
Yesterday I enabled this, but it looks like it's not fully ready:
Like you said above, the total is kept the same and then from that VAT is calculated.
It's not wrong per-se, but also not a nice way. Why should the seller receive
less when a buyer is from a country with a higher VAT %?
BL should instead take the price, remove the VAT % from the sellers country,
then add the VAT % of the buyers country. So net price is the same, price the
buyer pays is higher when the VAT % is also higher. Works like this on Amazon
(and BO) too.
Two bugs that need resolving asap:
1. The VAT checkbox is greyed out when someone orders? It then for example mentions
"Germany VAT 19%" which is nice. But sometimes I need to disable VAT and send
a new invoice, because buyer presents a valid VAT id and it's then B2B transaction.
If this is not possible any more we have a huge issue. This is used A LOT in
EU. For work-around, see bug 2.
2. Just edited an order status (from PACKED to READY) on an order that had VAT
checkbox disabled. After it saved, it sets VAT checkbox to OFF on all my orders
that had this new "distance selling". So now they show no more VAT and the totals
are lower (even the paid orders).. wow!
Had to use the Chrome inspector to remove the DISABLED flag from the checkbox.
Then click it and save it back.. pfff.. VAT is back. At least a work-around for
bug 1
Please contact me if you need help fixing / testing this.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | TDH_Bricks | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2021 05:21 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 94 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Hello,
just recognized there is implemented Distance selling / OSS registration on the
Store Management Page already.
As I did not see any official announcement about this up to now, can you please
confirm this can be used now (switch it ON and insert OSS registration data and
file)?
And how is the recalculation to EU recipient country VAT rate done?
PS: Because of the ordering "Technical Error" discussed last few days on the
Forum we tried to switch it ON and fill in requested data. Today one EU order
was received and it seems there is no recalculation of VAT from our VAT rate
to recipient VAT rate but only calculation of recipient VAT amount from order
total. This would mean the VAT difference is on our store account what is not
good and we will switch this off.
Thank you.
|
Yesterday I enabled this, but it looks like it's not fully ready:
Like you said above, the total is kept the same and then from that VAT is calculated.
It's not wrong per-se, but also not a nice way. Why should the seller receive
less when a buyer is from a country with a higher VAT %?
BL should instead take the price, remove the VAT % from the sellers country,
then add the VAT % of the buyers country. So net price is the same, price the
buyer pays is higher when the VAT % is also higher. Works like this on Amazon
(and BO) too.
Two bugs that need resolving asap:
1. The VAT checkbox is greyed out when someone orders? It then for example mentions
"Germany VAT 19%" which is nice. But sometimes I need to disable VAT and send
a new invoice, because buyer presents a valid VAT id and it's then B2B transaction.
If this is not possible any more we have a huge issue. This is used A LOT in
EU. For work-around, see bug 2.
2. Just edited an order status (from PACKED to READY) on an order that had VAT
checkbox disabled. After it saved, it sets VAT checkbox to OFF on all my orders
that had this new "distance selling". So now they show no more VAT and the totals
are lower (even the paid orders).. wow!
Had to use the Chrome inspector to remove the DISABLED flag from the checkbox.
Then click it and save it back.. pfff.. VAT is back. At least a work-around for
bug 1
Please contact me if you need help fixing / testing this.
|
Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 14:38 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
|
Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
 |
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Hello,
just recognized there is implemented Distance selling / OSS registration on the
Store Management Page already.
As I did not see any official announcement about this up to now, can you please
confirm this can be used now (switch it ON and insert OSS registration data and
file)?
And how is the recalculation to EU recipient country VAT rate done?
PS: Because of the ordering "Technical Error" discussed last few days on the
Forum we tried to switch it ON and fill in requested data. Today one EU order
was received and it seems there is no recalculation of VAT from our VAT rate
to recipient VAT rate but only calculation of recipient VAT amount from order
total. This would mean the VAT difference is on our store account what is not
good and we will switch this off.
Thank you.
|
Yesterday I enabled this, but it looks like it's not fully ready:
Like you said above, the total is kept the same and then from that VAT is calculated.
It's not wrong per-se, but also not a nice way. Why should the seller receive
less when a buyer is from a country with a higher VAT %?
BL should instead take the price, remove the VAT % from the sellers country,
then add the VAT % of the buyers country. So net price is the same, price the
buyer pays is higher when the VAT % is also higher. Works like this on Amazon
(and BO) too.
Two bugs that need resolving asap:
1. The VAT checkbox is greyed out when someone orders? It then for example mentions
"Germany VAT 19%" which is nice. But sometimes I need to disable VAT and send
a new invoice, because buyer presents a valid VAT id and it's then B2B transaction.
If this is not possible any more we have a huge issue. This is used A LOT in
EU. For work-around, see bug 2.
2. Just edited an order status (from PACKED to READY) on an order that had VAT
checkbox disabled. After it saved, it sets VAT checkbox to OFF on all my orders
that had this new "distance selling". So now they show no more VAT and the totals
are lower (even the paid orders).. wow!
Had to use the Chrome inspector to remove the DISABLED flag from the checkbox.
Then click it and save it back.. pfff.. VAT is back. At least a work-around for
bug 1
Please contact me if you need help fixing / testing this.
|
Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
This bug has been fixed. Thank you for reporting it.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | kaat | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 14:55 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Hello,
just recognized there is implemented Distance selling / OSS registration on the
Store Management Page already.
As I did not see any official announcement about this up to now, can you please
confirm this can be used now (switch it ON and insert OSS registration data and
file)?
And how is the recalculation to EU recipient country VAT rate done?
PS: Because of the ordering "Technical Error" discussed last few days on the
Forum we tried to switch it ON and fill in requested data. Today one EU order
was received and it seems there is no recalculation of VAT from our VAT rate
to recipient VAT rate but only calculation of recipient VAT amount from order
total. This would mean the VAT difference is on our store account what is not
good and we will switch this off.
Thank you.
|
Yesterday I enabled this, but it looks like it's not fully ready:
Like you said above, the total is kept the same and then from that VAT is calculated.
It's not wrong per-se, but also not a nice way. Why should the seller receive
less when a buyer is from a country with a higher VAT %?
BL should instead take the price, remove the VAT % from the sellers country,
then add the VAT % of the buyers country. So net price is the same, price the
buyer pays is higher when the VAT % is also higher. Works like this on Amazon
(and BO) too.
Two bugs that need resolving asap:
1. The VAT checkbox is greyed out when someone orders? It then for example mentions
"Germany VAT 19%" which is nice. But sometimes I need to disable VAT and send
a new invoice, because buyer presents a valid VAT id and it's then B2B transaction.
If this is not possible any more we have a huge issue. This is used A LOT in
EU. For work-around, see bug 2.
2. Just edited an order status (from PACKED to READY) on an order that had VAT
checkbox disabled. After it saved, it sets VAT checkbox to OFF on all my orders
that had this new "distance selling". So now they show no more VAT and the totals
are lower (even the paid orders).. wow!
Had to use the Chrome inspector to remove the DISABLED flag from the checkbox.
Then click it and save it back.. pfff.. VAT is back. At least a work-around for
bug 1
Please contact me if you need help fixing / testing this.
|
Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
This bug has been fixed. Thank you for reporting it.
|
Thank you for fixing it quickly! 👍
Can you please also look into the "VAT checkbox is greyed out" issue? Thank you.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | kaat | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 14:42 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 15:45 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
This is expected behavior - it is disabled by design. When Distance Selling is
enabled in the VAT settings, this box will be automatically checked and disabled.
|
Huh? Why? How to do B2B transactions with Distance Selling enabled? 
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | kaat | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 15:59 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Teup writes:
| | In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
This is expected behavior - it is disabled by design. When Distance Selling is
enabled in the VAT settings, this box will be automatically checked and disabled.
|
Huh? Why? How to do B2B transactions with Distance Selling enabled?
|
Normally, if a EU based company buys from a company in another EU member state,
the VAT id is verified and a 0% VAT transaction is done. VAT accounting is then
delegated to the buying company and handled in the quarterly VAT report. Many
(if not all) of the larger EU sellers are companies. There is also a lot of design
agencies that build models that are also companies. We need this to do business
with each other.
I've done 0% VAT B2B transactions on BL for many years and would like to
continue doing so. It's a normal business procedure in the EU.
It also just works as-is. When you manually remove the disable property, it does
what it needs to do. Like it did for many years. Please reconsider.
There might also be an alternative:
If you could improve the BL invoices / order overview page, in a way they are
compliant and actual invoices, then when domestic VAT is charged we might be
able to claim it back at the tax office that way. However, right now the BL invoices
for orders do not meet the legal requirements. Would be great to improve that
too
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 16:12 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, Teup writes:
| | In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
This is expected behavior - it is disabled by design. When Distance Selling is
enabled in the VAT settings, this box will be automatically checked and disabled.
|
Huh? Why? How to do B2B transactions with Distance Selling enabled?
|
Normally, if a EU based company buys from a company in another EU member state,
the VAT id is verified and a 0% VAT transaction is done. VAT accounting is then
delegated to the buying company and handled in the quarterly VAT report. Many
(if not all) of the larger EU sellers are companies. There is also a lot of design
agencies that build models that are also companies. We need this to do business
with each other.
I've done 0% VAT B2B transactions on BL for many years and would like to
continue doing so. It's a normal business procedure in the EU.
It also just works as-is. When you manually remove the disable property, it does
what it needs to do. Like it did for many years. Please reconsider.
|
Russell's response really confused me. Now I have so many questions.
-So Bricklink decided to... remove the feature of B2B selling? Which is significant
activity here on Bricklink?
-...because of some unrelated tax issue?
-...although only for members who have that feature enabled?
-...without warning them?
-...and not a mention about all of this in advance; We're just removing b2b
selling and expect it will all be fine and nobody cares? Did it occur to Bricklink
that maybe people want to make an informed decision...?
-Or are people expected to do b2b only with offsite payment or add credits
or something like that to substitute the old feature? Is that the idea?
This really needs some explanation, they can't just casually drop this information
like that.
| | There might also be an alternative:
If you could improve the BL invoices / order overview page, in a way they are
compliant and actual invoices, then when domestic VAT is charged we might be
able to claim it back at the tax office that way. However, right now the BL invoices
for orders do not meet the legal requirements. Would be great to improve that
too
|
Well I always make proper invoices, and you can always ask sellers for one. But
AFAIK even with an invoice you cannot claim foreign VAT back domestically, hence
the 0% construction.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | kaat | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 16:36 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Teup writes:
| | Russell's response really confused me. Now I have so many questions.
|
+1
| | -So Bricklink decided to... remove the feature of B2B selling? Which is significant
activity here on Bricklink?
|
Sounds like some unintended side effect. There is no tax reason that I'm
aware of that would disallow this.
| | -...because of some unrelated tax issue?
-...although only for members who have that feature enabled?
-...without warning them?
-...and not a mention about all of this in advance; We're just removing b2b
selling and expect it will all be fine and nobody cares? Did it occur to Bricklink
that maybe people want to make an informed decision...?
-Or are people expected to do b2b only with offsite payment or add credits
or something like that to substitute the old feature? Is that the idea?
|
You can't. Once a store has distance selling, you cannot disable VAT via
checkbox because it is greyed out. So you'd need to credit the amount on
the order or so. Which would then mess up the VAT totals. Much easier to enable
the checkbox again
| | This really needs some explanation, they can't just casually drop this information
like that.
| | There might also be an alternative:
If you could improve the BL invoices / order overview page, in a way they are
compliant and actual invoices, then when domestic VAT is charged we might be
able to claim it back at the tax office that way. However, right now the BL invoices
for orders do not meet the legal requirements. Would be great to improve that
too
|
Well I always make proper invoices, and you can always ask sellers for one. But
AFAIK even with an invoice you cannot claim foreign VAT back domestically, hence
the 0% construction.
|
True. But now it'll have 21% Dutch VAT on it, for any order we place in an
EU store that is VAT enabled (and has distance selling). That I think is different.
Because indeed, for example 19% German VAT cannot be claimed back so easily.
On Amazon, doesn't matter whether I order on .nl or .de or .fr or .es or
.it I will always give me an invoice with 21% Dutch VAT, which I can claim back
domestically. Or, create a business account, which then invoices with 0% VAT.
But these guys know how a real invoice looks like.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Nov 25, 2021 04:25 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, Teup writes:
| | Russell's response really confused me. Now I have so many questions.
|
+1
| | -So Bricklink decided to... remove the feature of B2B selling? Which is significant
activity here on Bricklink?
|
Sounds like some unintended side effect. There is no tax reason that I'm
aware of that would disallow this.
| | -...because of some unrelated tax issue?
-...although only for members who have that feature enabled?
-...without warning them?
-...and not a mention about all of this in advance; We're just removing b2b
selling and expect it will all be fine and nobody cares? Did it occur to Bricklink
that maybe people want to make an informed decision...?
-Or are people expected to do b2b only with offsite payment or add credits
or something like that to substitute the old feature? Is that the idea?
|
You can't. Once a store has distance selling, you cannot disable VAT via
checkbox because it is greyed out. So you'd need to credit the amount on
the order or so. Which would then mess up the VAT totals. Much easier to enable
the checkbox again
| | This really needs some explanation, they can't just casually drop this information
like that.
| | There might also be an alternative:
If you could improve the BL invoices / order overview page, in a way they are
compliant and actual invoices, then when domestic VAT is charged we might be
able to claim it back at the tax office that way. However, right now the BL invoices
for orders do not meet the legal requirements. Would be great to improve that
too
|
Well I always make proper invoices, and you can always ask sellers for one. But
AFAIK even with an invoice you cannot claim foreign VAT back domestically, hence
the 0% construction.
|
True. But now it'll have 21% Dutch VAT on it, for any order we place in an
EU store that is VAT enabled (and has distance selling). That I think is different.
Because indeed, for example 19% German VAT cannot be claimed back so easily.
|
That is what I thought when I saw the new OSS rules, but after asking here and
there nobody had an answer as if it was okay to claim that VAT back.
In theory yes, here in Spain all OSS VAT amounts I collected on the 3rd term
of 2021 had to be bank transferred to the VAT agency, I couldn't claim it
against my Spanish VAT purchases amount. So the money of OSS VAT is going directly
to the selling country.
| |
On Amazon, doesn't matter whether I order on .nl or .de or .fr or .es or
.it I will always give me an invoice with 21% Dutch VAT, which I can claim back
domestically. Or, create a business account, which then invoices with 0% VAT.
But these guys know how a real invoice looks like.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jbricks | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 16:57 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| A bit of a confusing answer.
Removing B2B sales would be an amazingly designerror.
We as a VAT business are not even allowed to sell with VAT to another EU business
buyer with a valid vat id.
Dream scenario would be that the new system lets everybody register, like for
instane on amazon, and it will make a B2B invoice (so 0%VAT) automaticly.
Please clear this up for us.
It will take thousands and thousands of sales from Bricklink if this will not
be possible.
Best regards
Janet
In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
This is expected behavior - it is disabled by design. When Distance Selling is
enabled in the VAT settings, this box will be automatically checked and disabled.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jbricks | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 17:03 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| And as an addition to this reply,
B2B transaction within the EU do not count for the threshold.
In Help, jbricks writes:
| | A bit of a confusing answer.
Removing B2B sales would be an amazingly designerror.
We as a VAT business are not even allowed to sell with VAT to another EU business
buyer with a valid vat id.
Dream scenario would be that the new system lets everybody register, like for
instane on amazon, and it will make a B2B invoice (so 0%VAT) automaticly.
Please clear this up for us.
It will take thousands and thousands of sales from Bricklink if this will not
be possible.
Best regards
Janet
In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
This is expected behavior - it is disabled by design. When Distance Selling is
enabled in the VAT settings, this box will be automatically checked and disabled.
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Nov 24, 2021 17:19 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, jbricks writes:
| | A bit of a confusing answer.
Removing B2B sales would be an amazingly designerror.
|
In reply to this point which I also made:
Actually I think I was wrong and the problem is of a slightly different nature:
You can't "remove" B2B sales as such, B2B transactions are a fact of life.
Fact 1: When a business buys from another business, they have a legal right to
an invoice.
Fact 2: And the correct way of invoicing businesses in other EU countries, is
by charging 0% VAT.
Conclusion: It is not a separate optional service, it's simply the correct
way of doing it*
In other words:
Bricklink's choice is not whether or not to allow B2B selling, but whether
their VAT stats (and features around it) are going to reflect reality or not.
If they are going to go with this design error, it simply means that sellers
need to add a credit and do their correct administration outside of Bricklink
(which is a smart thing to do anyway, I would never trust Bricklink - again proven
right). Any VAT amounts that Bricklink indicates over a period of selling is
just going to be inaccurate, as it includes VAT in B2B sales that wasn't
there.
* This is what a specialised employee of the tax agency told me, but they do
make mistakes, so I'm about 80% sure this is correct
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Nov 25, 2021 04:34 | | Subject: | Re: [BUGS] in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
This is expected behavior - it is disabled by design. When Distance Selling is
enabled in the VAT settings, this box will be automatically checked and disabled.
|
Russell... What?
I thought you had a Table of Users where you explain this kind of things before
releasing?
There is no EU business users there? Or you didn't ask experienced users
of the platform?
As jbricks said: B2B transaction within the EU do not count for the threshold
of OSS.
Keep in mind that the OSS rules are for the Business selling goods to comply,
you as a Marketplace facilitate the tools for us to work.
VAT checkbox worked great until not, each seller had the option to uncheck it
when necessary, and it has to stay that way.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Nov 29, 2021 17:45 | | Subject: | Re: BUGS in Distance selling / OSS | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, kaat writes:
| | In Help, TDH_Bricks writes:
| | Confirm this BUG from my side. It was happened to me as well but I was not sure
if it was my fault or BL did it.
Happily there was only one EU order at that time and we switch OFF the OSS promptly.
As regards the VAT calculation - we do it same way like you described. This is
the best way for both sides. Difference between VATs we credit (lower recipient
VAT) or charge (higher) as Additional Charges 2. Sellers cannot be responsible
for higher recipient VAT rates.
|
I've reported these bugs to BL yesterday and was just informed the issue
where a status change would switch the VAT off was fixed. Haven't tested
it though. But great this was resolved fast!
VAT checkbox is still disabled, that isn't fixed yet.
|
This is expected behavior - it is disabled by design. When Distance Selling is
enabled in the VAT settings, this box will be automatically checked and disabled.
|
Russell, since there was time to send out emails on the release, maybe there
is also time to give us an update on this issue? Has the checkbox now been reenabled
for OSS registered sellers? Whether or not I will sign up for it partly depends
on whether this is fixed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Czech Republic, Královéhradecký Kraj
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Netherlands, Utrecht
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Sweden, Västra Götaland
