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| | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek  | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 13:02 | | Subject: | VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 198 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| There are already a few threads out there regarding this issue (https://www.bricklink.com/messageList.asp?nID=&q=VAT&qS=Y&qM=Y&v=c&max=20&mTP=Y)
and I now finally know what is causing European buyers to pay VAT twice on their
non-European orders.
The "customs invoice" sellers are asked by BL to include in their parcels does
NOT mention the IOSS nr of Bricklink.
To Customs this simply means no VAT has been paid. Only, and ONLY when
a valid IOSS nr is mentioned in the customs declaration will it be accepted that
VAT payment has already been fulfilled.
I cannot imagine other e-commerce platforms are failing to ignore such a blatant
omission, otherwise we (Customs) would see a 90% decline in international orders
(which is clearly not the case).
I can however imagine international trade on Bricklink is heavily suffering from
this.
Could the people responsible correct this so the Bricklink IOSS nr is mentioned
in the customs invoice? It should be mentioned on the customs declaration on
the outside of the package as well btw.
If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
Erikk
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| | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 13:24 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | […]
The "customs invoice" sellers are asked by BL to include in their parcels does
NOT mention the IOSS nr of Bricklink.
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Well, then that also explains why “this is NOT an invoice for VAT purpose.”
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 13:25 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | There are already a few threads out there regarding this issue (https://www.bricklink.com/messageList.asp?nID=&q=VAT&qS=Y&qM=Y&v=c&max=20&mTP=Y)
and I now finally know what is causing European buyers to pay VAT twice on their
non-European orders.
The "customs invoice" sellers are asked by BL to include in their parcels does
NOT mention the IOSS nr of Bricklink.
To Customs this simply means no VAT has been paid. Only, and ONLY when
a valid IOSS nr is mentioned in the customs declaration will it be accepted that
VAT payment has already been fulfilled.
I cannot imagine other e-commerce platforms are failing to ignore such a blatant
omission, otherwise we (Customs) would see a 90% decline in international orders
(which is clearly not the case).
I can however imagine international trade on Bricklink is heavily suffering from
this.
Could the people responsible correct this so the Bricklink IOSS nr is mentioned
in the customs invoice? It should be mentioned on the customs declaration on
the outside of the package as well btw.
If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
Erikk
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Strange, the invoices to the UK do mention the UK VAT ID (if I understood correctly
there is no separate IOSS number). I wonder if UK buyers have the double tax
problem or not?
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| | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 13:30 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | There are already a few threads out there regarding this issue (https://www.bricklink.com/messageList.asp?nID=&q=VAT&qS=Y&qM=Y&v=c&max=20&mTP=Y)
and I now finally know what is causing European buyers to pay VAT twice on their
non-European orders.
The "customs invoice" sellers are asked by BL to include in their parcels does
NOT mention the IOSS nr of Bricklink.
To Customs this simply means no VAT has been paid. Only, and ONLY when
a valid IOSS nr is mentioned in the customs declaration will it be accepted that
VAT payment has already been fulfilled.
|
Based on European rules or whatever rules, the IOSS should be given to the courier
and submitted electronically. I did that for a shipment to the Netherlands and
included the BL invoice on the package too. The buyer was requested and paid
VAT for the second time.
| |
I cannot imagine other e-commerce platforms are failing to ignore such a blatant
omission, otherwise we (Customs) would see a 90% decline in international orders
(which is clearly not the case).
I can however imagine international trade on Bricklink is heavily suffering from
this.
Could the people responsible correct this so the Bricklink IOSS nr is mentioned
in the customs invoice? It should be mentioned on the customs declaration on
the outside of the package as well btw.
If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
Erikk
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| | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 13:40 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, SezaR writes:
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Based on European rules or whatever rules, the IOSS should be given to the courier
and submitted electronically. I did that for a shipment to the Netherlands and
included the BL invoice on the package too. The buyer was requested and paid
VAT for the second time.
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Yes, it's true that some parcel handlers in the EU (Belgian Post among them)
haven't updated their IT-systems properly to acknowledge those nrs into their
system.
But if the nr was included on the Bricklink customs invoice and / or on the customs
parcel slip there would be proof for the consignee to at least ask for a refund.
Now I have no proof at all and I just have to swallow an amount that almost doubled
my order total.
Look, in the end if nothing will be done about this, non-European sellers will
lose a lot of business. Over 33% of all members on this platform are located
in the EU.
Probably not an issue for a lot of sellers, but still a significant amount of
business to lose.
Not to mention any future new members experiencing such an issue on their first
purchase and not being aware of the VAT-rules decide against using Bricklink
altogether which will cost European sellers business as well.
Erikk
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 14:53 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | In Selling, SezaR writes:
| |
Based on European rules or whatever rules, the IOSS should be given to the courier
and submitted electronically. I did that for a shipment to the Netherlands and
included the BL invoice on the package too. The buyer was requested and paid
VAT for the second time.
|
Yes, it's true that some parcel handlers in the EU (Belgian Post among them)
haven't updated their IT-systems properly to acknowledge those nrs into their
system.
But if the nr was included on the Bricklink customs invoice and / or on the customs
parcel slip there would be proof for the consignee to at least ask for a refund.
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I wrote IOSS on the BL invoice.
With CanadaPost, we can "not accept the delivery of" the package and "not pay
import fees" and request the import fees to be reviewed. They will contact us
and investigate the matter.
Once the seller included shipping costs (about 50% of total) as order's value.
In Canada, there is no import fees over shipping costs. After I asked them to
review the import fees, they conctacted me and I sent them proof of payment
plus the Ebay's transaction receipt.
Even if I pay, I can request a refund afterwards.
annoying but it will work. I bet "vous avez la meme chose la-bas aussi!"
| | Now I have no proof at all and I just have to swallow an amount that almost doubled
my order total.
Look, in the end if nothing will be done about this, non-European sellers will
lose a lot of business. Over 33% of all members on this platform are located
in the EU.
Probably not an issue for a lot of sellers, but still a significant amount of
business to lose.
Not to mention any future new members experiencing such an issue on their first
purchase and not being aware of the VAT-rules decide against using Bricklink
altogether which will cost European sellers business as well.
Erikk
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I don't think BL can do anything. They follow rules.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 14:45 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| | | Could the people responsible correct this so the Bricklink IOSS nr is mentioned
in the customs invoice? It should be mentioned on the customs declaration on
the outside of the package as well btw.
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I received an eBay order today from the US. Whatever they are telling their sellers
about crossborder transactions into the UK, it is working.
| | If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
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And it also affects non-EU sellers that might otherwise be willing to sell to
EU countries. They might also give up on selling to the EU due to the hassle.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Stuart9 | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 15:29 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| This seems to be getting to the point where I may restrict sales to UK when I
return, it’s becoming a minefield.
I’m not getting into filing online forms if it turns out that I need to do this
for anything outside the UK, it just won’t be worth my time.
If I can’t comply then I have to quit as I’ll have irate buyers paying vat twice.
CN22’s I can cope with but online forms, no chance.
Unfortunately I hate online bureaucracy, it inevitably goes wrong and it’s impossible
to resolve,
I will keep monitoring the forum on this subject, it may be a lot clearer by
the time I restart and perhaps someone can coach me in how I proceed at that
time, I’m a technophobe at the best of times.
This was fun but now it’s becoming a chore, perhaps i need to seriously think
about quitting altogether if a UK only store doesn’t work.
I really enjoyed dealing with customers across the world ( the areas I sold to
), I’ll miss them.
As a buyer, I don’t want to pay vat twice either, I know this would also be a
nightmare to resolve.
Many of my interests and stock came from overseas sellers as this material was
not sold in the UK by Lego.
Could be sad days ahead. 
In Selling, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Could the people responsible correct this so the Bricklink IOSS nr is mentioned
in the customs invoice? It should be mentioned on the customs declaration on
the outside of the package as well btw.
|
I received an eBay order today from the US. Whatever they are telling their sellers
about crossborder transactions into the UK, it is working.
| | If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
|
And it also affects non-EU sellers that might otherwise be willing to sell to
EU countries. They might also give up on selling to the EU due to the hassle.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 16:15 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Stuart9 writes:
| | This seems to be getting to the point where I may restrict sales to UK when I
return, it’s becoming a minefield.
| | | | If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
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And it also affects non-EU sellers that might otherwise be willing to sell to
EU countries. They might also give up on selling to the EU due to the hassle.
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That's what I did: I keep non-EU shops out of my searches for parts.
And the result is, some projects will not be finished for a long time.
Too bad it turns out this messy way.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | stevetq2 | | Posted: | Nov 30, 2021 14:34 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| The level of bureaucracy the EU insist on for what are often very small transactions
is ridiculous, I have no such problems with exporting to places as far apart
as the USA, Singapore and Australia. The EU's petty and pedantic attitude
and 'one size fits all rules' approach is one of many reasons the UK
voted to leave and I for one will NOT be selling again to our European friends
until those setting the rules at least start abiding by the rules that they insist
everyone else follows. There is a system in place to stop double charging of
VAT but EU customs either don't know about it or they are choosing to ignore
it, perhaps they need the extra money.
Steve
In Selling, StarBrick writes:
| | In Selling, Stuart9 writes:
| | This seems to be getting to the point where I may restrict sales to UK when I
return, it’s becoming a minefield.
| | | | If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
|
And it also affects non-EU sellers that might otherwise be willing to sell to
EU countries. They might also give up on selling to the EU due to the hassle.
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That's what I did: I keep non-EU shops out of my searches for parts.
And the result is, some projects will not be finished for a long time.
Too bad it turns out this messy way.
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| | | | | | | Author: | bengreen28 | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 17:43 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| I'm still confused as to what to do, I sent an order to France a few weeks
back, submitted the ioss number to the post office and sent it on it's way.
The package got to the destination and I have not heard anything from the buyer
as to them having to pay twice.
I'm now about to put one in the post to Finland.
Bricklink says NOT to put the ioss number anywhere but when you fill in a cn22
on paypal it asks for the number, you fill it in and when you view the completed
form there is nothing on it to indicate the number, after printing the postage
label the only thing I've noticed is there is a small black circle just above
the post by date that has ioss in white letters in it.
No number just the words ioss, I've attached the Bricklink vat invoice letter
but still don't know if we add the ioss number or not, I'll give it to
the post office when I put the package in.
Question is do I or don't I put the number on the package as there seems
to be differing views?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 18:44 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| Interesting ... so it seems that when filling in a CN22 using Paypal (I assume
that's because you use create the shipping label via PP?) the IOSS nr is
actually transmitted into the electric customs form.
It might very well be that it comes down to failures, perhaps even on both sides,
of the parties doing the customs formalities (like postal services or courrier
services).
Erikk
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bengreen28 | | Posted: | Nov 4, 2021 18:53 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| It may add the number into the cn22 form on paypal and yes I create a postage
label in paypal, the only thing with it is I don't print the cn22 forms as
I have a stack of self adhesive ones from the post office that I fill in.
It's possible the ioss number is somehow added into the barcode on the postage
label that gets scanned when it's handed over.
I'll see if the next one is hassle free as well.
In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | Interesting ... so it seems that when filling in a CN22 using Paypal (I assume
that's because you use create the shipping label via PP?) the IOSS nr is
actually transmitted into the electric customs form.
It might very well be that it comes down to failures, perhaps even on both sides,
of the parties doing the customs formalities (like postal services or courrier
services).
Erikk
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| | | | | Author: | helge | | Posted: | Nov 16, 2021 06:52 | | Subject: | Re: VAT double charged (continued) -> Admin?? | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Selling | |
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| In Selling, Erkiles writes:
| | There are already a few threads out there regarding this issue (https://www.bricklink.com/messageList.asp?nID=&q=VAT&qS=Y&qM=Y&v=c&max=20&mTP=Y)
and I now finally know what is causing European buyers to pay VAT twice on their
non-European orders.
The "customs invoice" sellers are asked by BL to include in their parcels does
NOT mention the IOSS nr of Bricklink.
To Customs this simply means no VAT has been paid. Only, and ONLY when
a valid IOSS nr is mentioned in the customs declaration will it be accepted that
VAT payment has already been fulfilled.
I cannot imagine other e-commerce platforms are failing to ignore such a blatant
omission, otherwise we (Customs) would see a 90% decline in international orders
(which is clearly not the case).
I can however imagine international trade on Bricklink is heavily suffering from
this.
Could the people responsible correct this so the Bricklink IOSS nr is mentioned
in the customs invoice? It should be mentioned on the customs declaration on
the outside of the package as well btw.
If people keep being asked to pay VAT twice they will eventually turn to other
platforms to fulfill their Lego needs.
Erikk
|
We have sent several hundred shipments to EU contries after July 1st. All have
been sent with CN23 filled in electronically with the postal service, and with
IOSS number filled in as instructed by the postal service. Most have gone through
without problems, but some has gotten VAT charged twice. We have discussed this
with the postal service several times, and according to them there has been some
computer problems (the systems of the different countries not talking to each
other correctly) that has led to the IOSS number not always being transferred
correctly. The strange thing is that is seams to have been spread out evenly;
most shipments to each country have gone OK, but one or two has gotten double
charged.
BUT: The postal service claims that a fix to this problem now is in place. I
am not sure if this fix is international, or if it just solves the Norway to
EU problems.
Regards,
Helge
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Belgium, Brussels
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Netherlands, Utrecht
Canada, British Columbia
United Kingdom, England
Norway