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| | | Author: | gideon84  | | Posted: | Sep 19, 2021 20:33 | | Subject: | International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 102 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| Well, as the title suggests, I'm puzzled by the whole IOSS stuff. Where does
one enter the IOSS number.
Bricklink states:
1) "You must share BrickLink’s IOSS number directly with your shipping carrier
so that the shipping carrier can submit this information electronically. This
helps to ensure that the buyer will not be charged VAT twice."
When I did ask the clerk at the USPS store I went to, they were as confused as
I was. They had no idea what I was talking about, which I found odd. This happened
at two different USPS locations too, so I don't think it's a matter of
someone being incompetent. Ok, so in this case, the USPS end (my mail carrier)
can't enter the number electronically.
2) "You MUST NOT use BrickLink’s IOSS number for any other purpose and NEVER
write this number on your packages."
So I've only had to deal with this IOSS number twice so far. The first time,
the employees at the USPS did ask me about putting it on the package. Not knowing
what else to do, I let the USPS employee did what she thought was best. The second
time, having read the Bricklink terms again, I declined to put it on the package.
So here come the questions, where are we supposed to enter it electronically?
How do we ensure that the customs of wherever the buyer is from gets the information
correctly?
Any thoughts?
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| | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | Sep 19, 2021 21:34 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| Following, is my understanding: On Paypal, when you enter the Customs Description,
at the bottom, there is a dropdown that you can select IOSS, and a box to enter
the number. Also, you can include a physical copy of the customs receipt in a
plastic baggie, taped securely to the side of the package, labeled 'CUSTOMS
PAPERS'. Hope this helps.
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| | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Sep 19, 2021 22:29 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, kzinti writes:
| | Following, is my understanding: On Paypal, when you enter the Customs Description,
at the bottom, there is a dropdown that you can select IOSS, and a box to enter
the number. Also, you can include a physical copy of the customs receipt in a
plastic baggie, taped securely to the side of the package, labeled 'CUSTOMS
PAPERS'. Hope this helps.
|
Thanks! I don't even see the option of Customs Description though. Therefore,
can't select the IOSS options further. I did include a copy of the receipt
showing the amount of VAT that the buyer has already paid (27%...). I'm just
concerned since I have nowhere to enter the number electronically and I've
read elsewhere that a buyer on BL had to pay the VAT twice.
I hope BL simplify things a bit more. There really should be more clarity on
this from BL's end, I feel.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Sep 20, 2021 11:07 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | […]
I hope BL simplify things a bit more. There really should be more clarity on
this from BL's end, I feel.
|
How? 
The collection of VAT, the IOSS, that it must be passed electronically, that
it shouldn’t be “communicated” (= on the package), are EU rules.
BL can’t do anything there but comply.
That postal services don’t know about the IOSS or how to pass it electronically,
well it’s on the postal services.
BL has nothing to do with the postal services, it’s the sellers who choose how
to send their packages.
BL can’t do anything there but tell sellers what they know: https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2517#ioss
So what could BL change?
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Sep 20, 2021 22:37 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | […]
I hope BL simplify things a bit more. There really should be more clarity on
this from BL's end, I feel.
|
How?
The collection of VAT, the IOSS, that it must be passed electronically, that
it shouldn’t be “communicated” (= on the package), are EU rules.
BL can’t do anything there but comply.
That postal services don’t know about the IOSS or how to pass it electronically,
well it’s on the postal services.
BL has nothing to do with the postal services, it’s the sellers who choose how
to send their packages.
BL can’t do anything there but tell sellers what they know: https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2517#ioss
So what could BL change?
|
Thanks for the reply. I know where to find the IOSS number on BL, but thank you
for the attachment. The question is, will the customs be able to see it even
if I enter it on Paypal(for some reason I don't see it on my Paypal account,
but that is a different topic). I didn't mean or ask for the BL to not comply.
Why would or how could I?
I don't know how Europe works as far as selecting mail carriers. Maybe you
folks over there in Europe have a lot of competitive choices. It seems like that's
the case for me anyways. What I meant to say was, since USPS is the default shipping
(not the only, but preferred choice) method for many here in the U.S. to ship
internationally (to Europe, where VAT exists, for instance), it'd make sense
for them (whoever came up with the idea of asking for VAT on goods purchased
overseas/IOSS) to have better communication with the USPS. If USPS doesn't
know what IOSS number is, guess what, that is also going to cause frustrations
for European buyers of other goods sold in US, not just LEGO, when they're
charged twice for the VAT of whatever they purchased.
Being that it is unlikely that BL has the ability to speed up USPS' process
of getting to know the IOSS Number and where to enter electronically... Bricklink,
as an online LEGO marketplace, could have helped by providing a place where all
sellers have to do is to just enter the IOSS numbers on a site that is recognized
by the local customs / tax collecting agencies to ensure that the European buyers
do not have to pay the VAT TWICE. Or if that is asking too much, at least provide
a link where each country's customs checks (if such exists) for such number.
I don't know about you. Personally, I think paying VAT once is already enough,
but maybe I'm just rambling.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Sep 21, 2021 02:37 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | […]
Thanks for the reply. I know where to find the IOSS number on BL, but thank you
for the attachment.
|
I gave the link for this part:
“Always double-check this process with your local shipping carrier as the process
may vary. Some shipping carriers cannot accept or submit IOSS numbers in post
office locations, so you may only be able to do this online. If your carrier
cannot transmit our IOSS number electronically, the buyer could be charged VAT
a second time.
If you are using customs declarations form CN-22, fill in BrickLink’s IOSS number
in the VAT ID section.
If you are using USPS Intl Priority Mail, Intl First-Class, you should use the
“Importer’s reference” field to input our IOSS number.”
In short: BL knows giving the IOSS electronicaly isn’t always possible in a post
office, or even online, and so BL tells the sellers in that FAQ.
That supports the introductory sentence to that link: “BL can’t do anything there
but tell sellers what they know.”
| | The question is, will the customs be able to see it even
if I enter it on Paypal(for some reason I don't see it on my Paypal account,
but that is a different topic).
|
PayPal gives it to USPS which, in turn, gives it to the customs because it’s
their job.
| | I didn't mean or ask for the BL to not comply.
Why would or how could I?
|
I didn’t say you asked BL not to comply. I meant that BL doesn’t make the rules
and can’t change them (therefore BL can only comply).
| | I don't know how Europe works as far as selecting mail carriers. Maybe you
folks over there in Europe have a lot of competitive choices. It seems like that's
the case for me anyways.
|
Each country is, well, a country, so each one has its own historical national
postal services, plus other carriers, local or international (DHL, UPS…).
But there’s not really that many more choices, it’s just that there’s a lot of
countries that you see as “Europe.”
(Well, okay, in EU, one can cross a border and get to use their neighbours’ post
(because there’s no customs between EU countries) but that’s not so common.)
| | What I meant to say was, since USPS is the default shipping
(not the only, but preferred choice) method for many here in the U.S. to ship
internationally (to Europe, where VAT exists, for instance), it'd make sense
for them (whoever came up with the idea of asking for VAT on goods purchased
overseas/IOSS) to have better communication with the USPS. If USPS doesn't
know what IOSS number is, guess what, that is also going to cause frustrations
for European buyers of other goods sold in US, not just LEGO, when they're
charged twice for the VAT of whatever they purchased.
|
The clerks in the two post offices you went to didn’t know. The few times I
had to post abroad, the clerks were no help filling a CN-22 either, they barely
knew about its existence. That’s just proof the clerks aren’t correctly informed
by their hierarchy, not that “them (whoever came up…)” didn’t inform said hierarchy.
But even if it’s USPS’s job to know about EU rules and to adapt to the rules
because they are the one who transports packages into EU, the EU advertizes new
rules long before their application (even if it’s only because it takes a long
time to apply them in 27 countries). The information doesn’t always reach us,
small fry, because it’s too technical for the media and, for those who are registered,
the chambers of commerce are stuck in the 19th century communication-wise, but
it certainly reaches the big players. It’s not just legal texts voted in the
night and published in small size in an Official Journal that no one reads.
Anyway, neither USPS nor “them (whoever came up…)” is BL, so, again, BL can’t
do anything here.
| | Being that it is unlikely that BL has the ability to speed up USPS' process
of getting to know the IOSS Number and where to enter electronically... Bricklink,
as an online LEGO marketplace, could have helped by providing a place where all
sellers have to do is to just enter the IOSS numbers on a site that is recognized
by the local customs / tax collecting agencies to ensure that the European buyers
do not have to pay the VAT TWICE. Or if that is asking too much, at least provide
a link where each country's customs checks (if such exists) for such number.
|
That’s not how it works.
How it works is:
1. You want to send something in EU while you’re not in EU yourself.
2. You need to make a customs declaration for your package.
3. That declaration has to be “lodged using electronic data-processing techniques”
(= given electronically).
4. It’s the one who presents the package to the customs who needs to give/lodge
the declaration, i.e. you & USPS.
As for the IOSS, it’s just a part of the customs declaration, a new part but
just a part. BL can’t give its IOSS to EU customs without giving the rest of
the customs declaration and, at least for now, that’s your transporter’s job
to present the customs declaration.
| | I don't know about you. Personally, I think paying VAT once is already enough,
but maybe I'm just rambling.
|
I don’t think otherwise about VAT  …but I don’t blame BL because of the rules
or because USPS didn’t do its homework.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | gideon84 | | Posted: | Sep 21, 2021 21:00 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | […]
Thanks for the reply. I know where to find the IOSS number on BL, but thank you
for the attachment.
|
I gave the link for this part:
“Always double-check this process with your local shipping carrier as the process
may vary. Some shipping carriers cannot accept or submit IOSS numbers in post
office locations, so you may only be able to do this online. If your carrier
cannot transmit our IOSS number electronically, the buyer could be charged VAT
a second time.
If you are using customs declarations form CN-22, fill in BrickLink’s IOSS number
in the VAT ID section.
If you are using USPS Intl Priority Mail, Intl First-Class, you should use the
“Importer’s reference” field to input our IOSS number.”
In short: BL knows giving the IOSS electronicaly isn’t always possible in a post
office, or even online, and so BL tells the sellers in that FAQ.
That supports the introductory sentence to that link: “BL can’t do anything there
but tell sellers what they know.”
| | The question is, will the customs be able to see it even
if I enter it on Paypal(for some reason I don't see it on my Paypal account,
but that is a different topic).
|
PayPal gives it to USPS which, in turn, gives it to the customs because it’s
their job.
| | I didn't mean or ask for the BL to not comply.
Why would or how could I?
|
I didn’t say you asked BL not to comply. I meant that BL doesn’t make the rules
and can’t change them (therefore BL can only comply).
| | I don't know how Europe works as far as selecting mail carriers. Maybe you
folks over there in Europe have a lot of competitive choices. It seems like that's
the case for me anyways.
|
Each country is, well, a country, so each one has its own historical national
postal services, plus other carriers, local or international (DHL, UPS…).
But there’s not really that many more choices, it’s just that there’s a lot of
countries that you see as “Europe.”
(Well, okay, in EU, one can cross a border and get to use their neighbours’ post
(because there’s no customs between EU countries) but that’s not so common.)
| | What I meant to say was, since USPS is the default shipping
(not the only, but preferred choice) method for many here in the U.S. to ship
internationally (to Europe, where VAT exists, for instance), it'd make sense
for them (whoever came up with the idea of asking for VAT on goods purchased
overseas/IOSS) to have better communication with the USPS. If USPS doesn't
know what IOSS number is, guess what, that is also going to cause frustrations
for European buyers of other goods sold in US, not just LEGO, when they're
charged twice for the VAT of whatever they purchased.
|
The clerks in the two post offices you went to didn’t know. The few times I
had to post abroad, the clerks were no help filling a CN-22 either, they barely
knew about its existence. That’s just proof the clerks aren’t correctly informed
by their hierarchy, not that “them (whoever came up…)” didn’t inform said hierarchy.
But even if it’s USPS’s job to know about EU rules and to adapt to the rules
because they are the one who transports packages into EU, the EU advertizes new
rules long before their application (even if it’s only because it takes a long
time to apply them in 27 countries). The information doesn’t always reach us,
small fry, because it’s too technical for the media and, for those who are registered,
the chambers of commerce are stuck in the 19th century communication-wise, but
it certainly reaches the big players. It’s not just legal texts voted in the
night and published in small size in an Official Journal that no one reads.
Anyway, neither USPS nor “them (whoever came up…)” is BL, so, again, BL can’t
do anything here.
| | Being that it is unlikely that BL has the ability to speed up USPS' process
of getting to know the IOSS Number and where to enter electronically... Bricklink,
as an online LEGO marketplace, could have helped by providing a place where all
sellers have to do is to just enter the IOSS numbers on a site that is recognized
by the local customs / tax collecting agencies to ensure that the European buyers
do not have to pay the VAT TWICE. Or if that is asking too much, at least provide
a link where each country's customs checks (if such exists) for such number.
|
That’s not how it works.
How it works is:
1. You want to send something in EU while you’re not in EU yourself.
2. You need to make a customs declaration for your package.
3. That declaration has to be “lodged using electronic data-processing techniques”
(= given electronically).
4. It’s the one who presents the package to the customs who needs to give/lodge
the declaration, i.e. you & USPS.
As for the IOSS, it’s just a part of the customs declaration, a new part but
just a part. BL can’t give its IOSS to EU customs without giving the rest of
the customs declaration and, at least for now, that’s your transporter’s job
to present the customs declaration.
| | I don't know about you. Personally, I think paying VAT once is already enough,
but maybe I'm just rambling.
|
I don’t think otherwise about VAT …but I don’t blame BL because of the rules
or because USPS didn’t do its homework.
|
Thanks for the reply! I'm actually not quite what CN22 is either, but I have
filled customs forms multiple times. Your last quote is definitely very helpful
though! For some reasons....
If you are using USPS Intl Priority Mail, Intl First-Class, you should use the
“Importer’s reference” field to input our IOSS number.”
that is the one part I needed, yet somehow I missed when I skimmed past the texts....
I guess I was a bit over critical of BL when there is really nothing to criticize.
That is the kind of specific directions I was looking for.
I still can't get over folks at USPS not knowing what IOSS is though. Hope
somebody there finds out soon...
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| | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Oct 5, 2021 19:22 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
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| So far, I have shipped few times to Europe.
I guess I am paranoided so I wrote the IOSS number on the paper copy of the invoice
that I attach on the package and I write on it: Buyer has already paid the VAT!
Why Bricklink (or the custom regulations) wants us not to write the IOSS number?
Is there any privacy reasons?
I insert the IOSS number when I create and buy the shipping label but is this
for sure enough? Any body knows if I write IOSS number on the pacakge, can it
help?
In Shipping, gideon84 writes:
| | Well, as the title suggests, I'm puzzled by the whole IOSS stuff. Where does
one enter the IOSS number.
Bricklink states:
1) "You must share BrickLink’s IOSS number directly with your shipping carrier
so that the shipping carrier can submit this information electronically. This
helps to ensure that the buyer will not be charged VAT twice."
When I did ask the clerk at the USPS store I went to, they were as confused as
I was. They had no idea what I was talking about, which I found odd. This happened
at two different USPS locations too, so I don't think it's a matter of
someone being incompetent. Ok, so in this case, the USPS end (my mail carrier)
can't enter the number electronically.
2) "You MUST NOT use BrickLink’s IOSS number for any other purpose and NEVER
write this number on your packages."
So I've only had to deal with this IOSS number twice so far. The first time,
the employees at the USPS did ask me about putting it on the package. Not knowing
what else to do, I let the USPS employee did what she thought was best. The second
time, having read the Bricklink terms again, I declined to put it on the package.
So here come the questions, where are we supposed to enter it electronically?
How do we ensure that the customs of wherever the buyer is from gets the information
correctly?
Any thoughts?
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 5, 2021 19:47 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, SezaR writes:
| | So far, I have shipped few times to Europe.
I guess I am paranoided so I wrote the IOSS number on the paper copy of the invoice
that I attach on the package and I write on it: Buyer has already paid the VAT!
Why Bricklink (or the custom regulations) wants us not to write the IOSS number?
Is there any privacy reasons?
|
This bit is in the 99 pages explanatory notes for the directives and regulation:
“It is important that the supplier or the electronic interface as the deemed
supplier makes sure that the IOSS VAT identification number is securely transmitted
via the supply chain to the customs authorities. Communication of the IOSS VAT
identification number should be kept to the minimum necessary and thus it should
only be transmitted to the parties in the supply chain that will need it for
the release for free circulation in the Member State of importation.”
I’m too stupid to understand how this number can be kept secret when it’s unique
for a marketplace and given to the sellers who needs it and to their buyers…
but if someone wrongly uses an IOSS number (say, Amazon’s one when they didn’t
sell through Amazon and VAT was not paid), I’d say the marketplace will be deemed
responsible (there’s a lot of “deemed” in these texts).
| | I insert the IOSS number when I create and buy the shipping label but is this
for sure enough?
|
Should be….
| | Any body knows if I write IOSS number on the pacakge, can it help?
|
Don’t do that because BL asks you not to because of the text says not to and
BL would be in trouble if more people than necessary know it.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 5, 2021 19:52 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, SezaR writes:
| | So far, I have shipped few times to Europe.
I guess I am paranoided so I wrote the IOSS number on the paper copy of the invoice
that I attach on the package and I write on it: Buyer has already paid the VAT!
Why Bricklink (or the custom regulations) wants us not to write the IOSS number?
Is there any privacy reasons?
|
This bit is in the 99 pages explanatory notes for the directives and regulation:
“It is important that the supplier or the electronic interface as the deemed
supplier makes sure that the IOSS VAT identification number is securely transmitted
via the supply chain to the customs authorities. Communication of the IOSS VAT
identification number should be kept to the minimum necessary and thus it should
only be transmitted to the parties in the supply chain that will need it for
the release for free circulation in the Member State of importation.”
|
https://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/system/files/2020-09/vatecommerceexplanatory_notes_30092020.pdf
| | I’m too stupid to understand how this number can be kept secret when it’s unique
for a marketplace and given to the sellers who needs it and to their buyers…
but if someone wrongly uses an IOSS number (say, Amazon’s one when they didn’t
sell through Amazon and VAT was not paid), I’d say the marketplace will be deemed
responsible (there’s a lot of “deemed” in these texts).
| | I insert the IOSS number when I create and buy the shipping label but is this
for sure enough?
|
Should be….
| | Any body knows if I write IOSS number on the pacakge, can it help?
|
Don’t do that because BL asks you not to because of the text says not to and
BL would be in trouble if more people than necessary know it.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Oct 8, 2021 16:35 | | Subject: | Re: International Shipping - IOSS | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Shipping | |
|
| I wrote the IOSS number on the invioce that was attached on the parcel. I thought
Dutch custom officers know English
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1307896
In Shipping, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Shipping, SezaR writes:
| | So far, I have shipped few times to Europe.
I guess I am paranoided so I wrote the IOSS number on the paper copy of the invoice
that I attach on the package and I write on it: Buyer has already paid the VAT!
Why Bricklink (or the custom regulations) wants us not to write the IOSS number?
Is there any privacy reasons?
|
This bit is in the 99 pages explanatory notes for the directives and regulation:
“It is important that the supplier or the electronic interface as the deemed
supplier makes sure that the IOSS VAT identification number is securely transmitted
via the supply chain to the customs authorities. Communication of the IOSS VAT
identification number should be kept to the minimum necessary and thus it should
only be transmitted to the parties in the supply chain that will need it for
the release for free circulation in the Member State of importation.”
I’m too stupid to understand how this number can be kept secret when it’s unique
for a marketplace and given to the sellers who needs it and to their buyers…
but if someone wrongly uses an IOSS number (say, Amazon’s one when they didn’t
sell through Amazon and VAT was not paid), I’d say the marketplace will be deemed
responsible (there’s a lot of “deemed” in these texts).
| | I insert the IOSS number when I create and buy the shipping label but is this
for sure enough?
|
Should be….
| | Any body knows if I write IOSS number on the pacakge, can it help?
|
Don’t do that because BL asks you not to because of the text says not to and
BL would be in trouble if more people than necessary know it.
|
|
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|
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USA, Maryland
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Canada, British Columbia