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| | | Author: | rumbi_rumun  | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 05:28 | | Subject: | Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 278 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 05:55 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 06:35 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 06:49 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bricksinbins | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 09:29 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In my experience, the minimum added weight for a padded envelope, bags, label
and paper invoice is at least 20 grams. As the order gets heavier the packaging
does too. 5 grams packaging is impossible unless you just stick loose parts in
a plain paper envelope. I don't think any buyer would be happy receiving
it that way.
The really tricky part is fragile items. Then a box is needed and just the box
itself can weigh 60 grams or more. That's already past a typical weight limit
of 50 grams without counting the actual order. It's very easy for a small
order to quickly get bumped up in the weight limits list because the limits are
quite close to each other. On big and heavy orders there is more wiggle room.
Also, remember that the shipping cost suggestion is only useful for a few countries.
If BrickLink does not include shipping cost tables for your country, then it
doesn't do anything for you. At least I was not able to make it do anything
useful in my case.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 10:06 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
If dimensions are added to the catalogue with specific guidelines for that data
then the catalogue will get better but there are lots and lots of other things
for us that need to be dealt with before - multiple batches - box volume capacity,
missing items in inventory (we need inventory tracking capabilities which already
exist in the system but we cannot get at them).
Yes it would be nice to know the shipping cost before you place your order, I
do not believe anyone can justifiably dispute that but there is also a lot more
to be done before the system is ready to provide that. The quote system doesn't
work for us as we process before we invoice and the shipping suggestion feature
we never implemented as it was suspect (no dimensions in the catalogue).
Someone mentioned a further couple of years before this is available and that
is a shame for some; and of little or no interest to others, As a store owner
I have asked myself do I need auto-checkout - the answer is it would be nice,
but it is not essential. What is needed far more in our opinion are working tools
for the stores - better inventory management tools, outputs to Excel (proper
outputs not garbled up xml files) and a whole lot more. More options and choice
on invoicing and printing formats. The messaging system needs to be updated to
offer more of a marketing tool. Orders need to have all information attached
(Drive through, etc) to them so the audit trail is complete on each transaction,
etc., etc. The list does go on.
Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 12:07 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
|
It's not actually a problem, it's just a fact and shops can handle it
how they like. You can set up your shipping calculation to be either optimistic
or pessimistic, decide whether you will refund any discrepancies in the buyer's
advantage or not. To me it's not a problem. And neither is it to the buyer,
as they always see how much it will cost and decide to pay that for the order.
| | Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
If auto checkout would be implemented in only some countries and not in others,
and this situation would persist for longer than a month, I would honestly shut
down my store and leave Bricklink. I think fair competition is the basic foundation
of this marketplace, if this would be compromised I would take my business elsewhere,
just on principle.
Anyway, it is not rocket science. It already almost works. All that's needed
before it can go live is hard data (all parts' dimensions have to be in the
database) and an easy (semi)automatic way to send refunds for missing parts.
That's just about it. They could get this fixed up in a month, but I guess
realistically it will take another year at least.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb69656 | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 12:20 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
|
It's not actually a problem, it's just a fact and shops can handle it
how they like. You can set up your shipping calculation to be either optimistic
or pessimistic, decide whether you will refund any discrepancies in the buyer's
advantage or not. To me it's not a problem. And neither is it to the buyer,
as they always see how much it will cost and decide to pay that for the order.
| | Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
If auto checkout would be implemented in only some countries and not in others,
and this situation would persist for longer than a month, I would honestly shut
down my store and leave Bricklink. I think fair competition is the basic foundation
of this marketplace, if this would be compromised I would take my business elsewhere,
just on principle.
Anyway, it is not rocket science. It already almost works. All that's needed
before it can go live is hard data (all parts' dimensions have to be in the
database) and an easy (semi)automatic way to send refunds for missing parts.
That's just about it. They could get this fixed up in a month, but I guess
realistically it will take another year at least.
|
Costing of Shipping more an art than a science.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
|
It's not actually a problem, it's just a fact and shops can handle it
how they like. You can set up your shipping calculation to be either optimistic
or pessimistic, decide whether you will refund any discrepancies in the buyer's
advantage or not. To me it's not a problem. And neither is it to the buyer,
as they always see how much it will cost and decide to pay that for the order.
|
Whilst it may not be a problem for some stores it also may be for others.
Not everyone has moved to BO (for a variety of reasons, of course) but the auto-checkout
over there possibly works based on the fact that the majority of their items
have proper dimensions which the current BL catalogue does not - even if they
are in stud.io or Mosaik). Dimensions are vital and for those parts that do not
have them then the order shouldb't be available to auto-checkout. I think
that is something similar to the way BO works (but not entirely sure as we do
not use that site.
| |
| | Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
If auto checkout would be implemented in only some countries and not in others,
and this situation would persist for longer than a month, I would honestly shut
down my store and leave Bricklink. I think fair competition is the basic foundation
of this marketplace, if this would be compromised I would take my business elsewhere,
just on principle.
Anyway, it is not rocket science. It already almost works. All that's needed
before it can go live is hard data (all parts' dimensions have to be in the
database) and an easy (semi)automatic way to send refunds for missing parts.
That's just about it. They could get this fixed up in a month, but I guess
realistically it will take another year at least.
|
It is relatively easy to gloss over and make the issues surrounding this appear
to be simple and straightforward, after all the other site had it at their launch,
so I am told, however the BL team are not having the easiest of times getting
everyone behind this or getting the code/system right. Where it works, implement
it. Not all countries are the same - where it doesn't yet work solve the
problems and then with what they have learned from the other implementations
move on. I do not see why people suggest that by not using auto-checkout we
would be disadvantaged. As a buyer who has made just under 1000 purchases in
my time on the site I have never even considered auto-checkout. It isn't
going to increase sales and the only tangible thing it may or may not do is prevent
NPB's. It might make it easier for those buyers who are shipping cost sensitive
to see the full price before they place and pay for their order, but we provide
all that information anyway, and give the buyer a choice of how they want their
items shipped. Auto-checkout is not the panacea people make it out to be. As
and when it arrives and it can be shown to work for the UK postal system we will
look at it further - I do believe, like many others that is a way off yet, but
for those countries where it works and works well why not give them an opportunity
to get on with it. People are not going to buy from a seller just because they
use auto-checkout - they buy because they have the parts at the right price and
are reliable and more and more because they do not charge additional fees. Postage
at cost and that is it.
Good luck with this, anyway, we will be watching the issue very closely, as I
am sure many others will be doing as well. Of the stores that we are in regular
communications with none have spent any real time looking at the preview site
and all but 1 have said they will not be implementing it as and when it arrives
- but did not rule it out in the future.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 12:00 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
|
It's not actually a problem, it's just a fact and shops can handle it
how they like. You can set up your shipping calculation to be either optimistic
or pessimistic, decide whether you will refund any discrepancies in the buyer's
advantage or not. To me it's not a problem. And neither is it to the buyer,
as they always see how much it will cost and decide to pay that for the order.
|
Whilst it may not be a problem for some stores it also may be for others.
Not everyone has moved to BO (for a variety of reasons, of course) but the auto-checkout
over there possibly works based on the fact that the majority of their items
have proper dimensions which the current BL catalogue does not - even if they
are in stud.io or Mosaik). Dimensions are vital and for those parts that do not
have them then the order shouldb't be available to auto-checkout. I think
that is something similar to the way BO works (but not entirely sure as we do
not use that site.
| |
| | Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
If auto checkout would be implemented in only some countries and not in others,
and this situation would persist for longer than a month, I would honestly shut
down my store and leave Bricklink. I think fair competition is the basic foundation
of this marketplace, if this would be compromised I would take my business elsewhere,
just on principle.
Anyway, it is not rocket science. It already almost works. All that's needed
before it can go live is hard data (all parts' dimensions have to be in the
database) and an easy (semi)automatic way to send refunds for missing parts.
That's just about it. They could get this fixed up in a month, but I guess
realistically it will take another year at least.
|
It is relatively easy to gloss over and make the issues surrounding this appear
to be simple and straightforward, after all the other site had it at their launch,
so I am told, however the BL team are not having the easiest of times getting
everyone behind this or getting the code/system right. Where it works, implement
it. Not all countries are the same - where it doesn't yet work solve the
problems and then with what they have learned from the other implementations
move on. I do not see why people suggest that by not using auto-checkout we
would be disadvantaged. As a buyer who has made just under 1000 purchases in
my time on the site I have never even considered auto-checkout. It isn't
going to increase sales and the only tangible thing it may or may not do is prevent
NPB's. It might make it easier for those buyers who are shipping cost sensitive
to see the full price before they place and pay for their order, but we provide
all that information anyway, and give the buyer a choice of how they want their
items shipped. Auto-checkout is not the panacea people make it out to be. As
and when it arrives and it can be shown to work for the UK postal system we will
look at it further - I do believe, like many others that is a way off yet, but
for those countries where it works and works well why not give them an opportunity
to get on with it. People are not going to buy from a seller just because they
use auto-checkout - they buy because they have the parts at the right price and
are reliable and more and more because they do not charge additional fees. Postage
at cost and that is it.
Good luck with this, anyway, we will be watching the issue very closely, as I
am sure many others will be doing as well. Of the stores that we are in regular
communications with none have spent any real time looking at the preview site
and all but 1 have said they will not be implementing it as and when it arrives
- but did not rule it out in the future.
|
You raise two topics, potential problems with the system and how it wouldn't
increase the number of orders. Well, I really think it would increase it alot.
Yes, your reasoning is sound, but on an emotional level, seeing a number on your
screen of what you will pay, and then paying right away, and having bought something
immediately, it's really a big thing. You could argue that the Snickers at
the counter of the supermarket are pointless as they are already in the candy
section and even cheaper at that..... still, it works, and it's a strategy
used worldwide. Auto checkout really takes away an emotional barrier I think.
Well, we could discuss that endlessly probably, but in the end we won't know
until it is there. But I'll just say that I really believe it's a "thing".
As for problems with the algorythms, I don't really see what could be the
problem. Well, I see one potential issue: Part dimensions are missing and the
order shows up as costing €10 more shipping that it actually costs to post. That's
the worst thing that could happen, right?
So is that that bad? OK, it could be an order missed. But parts with missing
dimensions will be rare - and already are rare. I don't understand what makes
you say it's way off? So far, I really haven't had any of these issues
yet. Shipping cost suggestion is simply correct for all orders I checked. Miscalculations
would be somewhere in the order of 1 out of a 100 (neglible even if the added
popularity because of auto checkout is only 1%). And even if it happens, a buyer
may still go through with the order. And as a seller the extra €10 spent on shipping&handling
is really yours to fairly keep, although you could also decide to refund it.
It's not like it would undermine in the system, a shop, or someone's
administration. You can also set it up in a way you will lose €10 some of the
time, and make up for it with higher prices, handling fee, or whatever. But it
will probably be off less often then your (well, at least my) inventory is off.
The only thing that is really lacking is packing dimensions besides functional
dimensions. A diagonal part is now considered a solid block by the system, while
it should really have a separate set of dimensions that take into account that
you could put the part flat by rotating it 45 degrees. That is relevant for big
panels for example, but the amount of orders this would really affect is less
than 1%.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calsbricks | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 12:33 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
|
It's not actually a problem, it's just a fact and shops can handle it
how they like. You can set up your shipping calculation to be either optimistic
or pessimistic, decide whether you will refund any discrepancies in the buyer's
advantage or not. To me it's not a problem. And neither is it to the buyer,
as they always see how much it will cost and decide to pay that for the order.
|
Whilst it may not be a problem for some stores it also may be for others.
Not everyone has moved to BO (for a variety of reasons, of course) but the auto-checkout
over there possibly works based on the fact that the majority of their items
have proper dimensions which the current BL catalogue does not - even if they
are in stud.io or Mosaik). Dimensions are vital and for those parts that do not
have them then the order shouldb't be available to auto-checkout. I think
that is something similar to the way BO works (but not entirely sure as we do
not use that site.
| |
| | Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
If auto checkout would be implemented in only some countries and not in others,
and this situation would persist for longer than a month, I would honestly shut
down my store and leave Bricklink. I think fair competition is the basic foundation
of this marketplace, if this would be compromised I would take my business elsewhere,
just on principle.
Anyway, it is not rocket science. It already almost works. All that's needed
before it can go live is hard data (all parts' dimensions have to be in the
database) and an easy (semi)automatic way to send refunds for missing parts.
That's just about it. They could get this fixed up in a month, but I guess
realistically it will take another year at least.
|
It is relatively easy to gloss over and make the issues surrounding this appear
to be simple and straightforward, after all the other site had it at their launch,
so I am told, however the BL team are not having the easiest of times getting
everyone behind this or getting the code/system right. Where it works, implement
it. Not all countries are the same - where it doesn't yet work solve the
problems and then with what they have learned from the other implementations
move on. I do not see why people suggest that by not using auto-checkout we
would be disadvantaged. As a buyer who has made just under 1000 purchases in
my time on the site I have never even considered auto-checkout. It isn't
going to increase sales and the only tangible thing it may or may not do is prevent
NPB's. It might make it easier for those buyers who are shipping cost sensitive
to see the full price before they place and pay for their order, but we provide
all that information anyway, and give the buyer a choice of how they want their
items shipped. Auto-checkout is not the panacea people make it out to be. As
and when it arrives and it can be shown to work for the UK postal system we will
look at it further - I do believe, like many others that is a way off yet, but
for those countries where it works and works well why not give them an opportunity
to get on with it. People are not going to buy from a seller just because they
use auto-checkout - they buy because they have the parts at the right price and
are reliable and more and more because they do not charge additional fees. Postage
at cost and that is it.
Good luck with this, anyway, we will be watching the issue very closely, as I
am sure many others will be doing as well. Of the stores that we are in regular
communications with none have spent any real time looking at the preview site
and all but 1 have said they will not be implementing it as and when it arrives
- but did not rule it out in the future.
|
You raise two topics, potential problems with the system and how it wouldn't
increase the number of orders. Well, I really think it would increase it alot.
Yes, your reasoning is sound, but on an emotional level, seeing a number on your
screen of what you will pay, and then paying right away, and having bought something
immediately, it's really a big thing. You could argue that the Snickers at
the counter of the supermarket are pointless as they are already in the candy
section and even cheaper at that..... still, it works, and it's a strategy
used worldwide. Auto checkout really takes away an emotional barrier I think.
Well, we could discuss that endlessly probably, but in the end we won't know
until it is there. But I'll just say that I really believe it's a "thing".
As for problems with the algorythms, I don't really see what could be the
problem. Well, I see one potential issue: Part dimensions are missing and the
order shows up as costing €10 more shipping that it actually costs to post. That's
the worst thing that could happen, right?
So is that that bad? OK, it could be an order missed. But parts with missing
dimensions will be rare - and already are rare. I don't understand what makes
you say it's way off? So far, I really haven't had any of these issues
yet. Shipping cost suggestion is simply correct for all orders I checked. Miscalculations
would be somewhere in the order of 1 out of a 100 (neglible even if the added
popularity because of auto checkout is only 1%). And even if it happens, a buyer
may still go through with the order. And as a seller the extra €10 spent on shipping&handling
is really yours to fairly keep, although you could also decide to refund it.
It's not like it would undermine in the system, a shop, or someone's
administration. You can also set it up in a way you will lose €10 some of the
time, and make up for it with higher prices, handling fee, or whatever. But it
will probably be off less often then your (well, at least my) inventory is off.
The only thing that is really lacking is packing dimensions besides functional
dimensions. A diagonal part is now considered a solid block by the system, while
it should really have a separate set of dimensions that take into account that
you could put the part flat by rotating it 45 degrees. That is relevant for big
panels for example, but the amount of orders this would really affect is less
than 1%.
|
Thank you for taking the time to respond to our thoughts on the matter. Time
will be the judge of whether it increases sales or not - we don't believe
it will but understand your logic. Fortunately, in life, there are always going
to be differing opinions on matters such as this. As I said earlier when we buy
we look at who has the parts we need not whether they offer auto-checkout or
not but then again we are not shipping cost sensitive as some buyers appear to
be.
As for the database, dimensions are vital whether they be part or packaging and
there is not really any sign of that in the database yet. I am convinced that
BL have held up offering out that change to the database due to the issues they
had in the very beginning about images, intellectual property etc. They may have
seen that BO did not go to the members for that, they incorporated it in their
system from the outset. The data is available somewhere. Lego certainly have
it and probably use it in LDD. We could, of course be wrong, but they aren't
commenting so again we really cannot be sure.
As for the system and how it actually works out shipping costs we, like many
others we communicate with, are waiting on the release of the feature and testing
it in real life before committing to it. That may sound like 'sour grapes'
or something similar but to be honest as we charge postage at cost with no packaging
costs or any other fees, there really isn't any room to manoeuvre. An awful
lot of our orders are bulk orders with 'heavy postage costs' - it wouldn't
take too many of those to start hitting our bottom line and that is something
we are not prepared to get into.
We do believe BL need to offer out a lot more information on how this is going
to work. We have multiple size large letter and small parcel boxes each with
different tare weights and capacities. Is the system going to stop short of choosing
the box and just say it is a large letter. If not how is it going to determine
capacity of the box? We know, for example, exactly how many 2 x 4 bricks will
go into the largest large letter box in the UK. Will they know that? Some of
the stores we buy from take great time and pride out of their packaging getting
as much as possible to lay flat so it will fit in a large letter rather than
a small parcel - is it going to know that? What about large brick orders - we
get lots of those and often find it is more economical to split the order (for
packaging purposes) into two parcels rather than use a medium parcel. It may
be possible to cope with that by setting up an over 2Kg method but really not
sure about it.
We also receive lots of multiple batch orders and we don't have any idea
how that is going to work. We certainly do not wish to end up paying multiple
Pay[pal fees for a single order.
Lots more detail is required and of course in this case the proof of all of this
will take time to emerge.
Anyway - thanks again for your time in responding
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 14:58 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 93 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Seems you're not aware of the shipping cost suggestion feature?  It is
already basically the whole system, just packed as a suggestion rather than an
auto checkout. The whole system is already here, the database is here, the user
interface to set it all up, and the algorythm to calculate if it fits.
Multiple batches will not be a problem, if it will just consider the weight and
size of the new complete order, and charge the new amount minus the amount already
paid.
In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
|
It's not actually a problem, it's just a fact and shops can handle it
how they like. You can set up your shipping calculation to be either optimistic
or pessimistic, decide whether you will refund any discrepancies in the buyer's
advantage or not. To me it's not a problem. And neither is it to the buyer,
as they always see how much it will cost and decide to pay that for the order.
|
Whilst it may not be a problem for some stores it also may be for others.
Not everyone has moved to BO (for a variety of reasons, of course) but the auto-checkout
over there possibly works based on the fact that the majority of their items
have proper dimensions which the current BL catalogue does not - even if they
are in stud.io or Mosaik). Dimensions are vital and for those parts that do not
have them then the order shouldb't be available to auto-checkout. I think
that is something similar to the way BO works (but not entirely sure as we do
not use that site.
| |
| | Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
If auto checkout would be implemented in only some countries and not in others,
and this situation would persist for longer than a month, I would honestly shut
down my store and leave Bricklink. I think fair competition is the basic foundation
of this marketplace, if this would be compromised I would take my business elsewhere,
just on principle.
Anyway, it is not rocket science. It already almost works. All that's needed
before it can go live is hard data (all parts' dimensions have to be in the
database) and an easy (semi)automatic way to send refunds for missing parts.
That's just about it. They could get this fixed up in a month, but I guess
realistically it will take another year at least.
|
It is relatively easy to gloss over and make the issues surrounding this appear
to be simple and straightforward, after all the other site had it at their launch,
so I am told, however the BL team are not having the easiest of times getting
everyone behind this or getting the code/system right. Where it works, implement
it. Not all countries are the same - where it doesn't yet work solve the
problems and then with what they have learned from the other implementations
move on. I do not see why people suggest that by not using auto-checkout we
would be disadvantaged. As a buyer who has made just under 1000 purchases in
my time on the site I have never even considered auto-checkout. It isn't
going to increase sales and the only tangible thing it may or may not do is prevent
NPB's. It might make it easier for those buyers who are shipping cost sensitive
to see the full price before they place and pay for their order, but we provide
all that information anyway, and give the buyer a choice of how they want their
items shipped. Auto-checkout is not the panacea people make it out to be. As
and when it arrives and it can be shown to work for the UK postal system we will
look at it further - I do believe, like many others that is a way off yet, but
for those countries where it works and works well why not give them an opportunity
to get on with it. People are not going to buy from a seller just because they
use auto-checkout - they buy because they have the parts at the right price and
are reliable and more and more because they do not charge additional fees. Postage
at cost and that is it.
Good luck with this, anyway, we will be watching the issue very closely, as I
am sure many others will be doing as well. Of the stores that we are in regular
communications with none have spent any real time looking at the preview site
and all but 1 have said they will not be implementing it as and when it arrives
- but did not rule it out in the future.
|
You raise two topics, potential problems with the system and how it wouldn't
increase the number of orders. Well, I really think it would increase it alot.
Yes, your reasoning is sound, but on an emotional level, seeing a number on your
screen of what you will pay, and then paying right away, and having bought something
immediately, it's really a big thing. You could argue that the Snickers at
the counter of the supermarket are pointless as they are already in the candy
section and even cheaper at that..... still, it works, and it's a strategy
used worldwide. Auto checkout really takes away an emotional barrier I think.
Well, we could discuss that endlessly probably, but in the end we won't know
until it is there. But I'll just say that I really believe it's a "thing".
As for problems with the algorythms, I don't really see what could be the
problem. Well, I see one potential issue: Part dimensions are missing and the
order shows up as costing €10 more shipping that it actually costs to post. That's
the worst thing that could happen, right?
So is that that bad? OK, it could be an order missed. But parts with missing
dimensions will be rare - and already are rare. I don't understand what makes
you say it's way off? So far, I really haven't had any of these issues
yet. Shipping cost suggestion is simply correct for all orders I checked. Miscalculations
would be somewhere in the order of 1 out of a 100 (neglible even if the added
popularity because of auto checkout is only 1%). And even if it happens, a buyer
may still go through with the order. And as a seller the extra €10 spent on shipping&handling
is really yours to fairly keep, although you could also decide to refund it.
It's not like it would undermine in the system, a shop, or someone's
administration. You can also set it up in a way you will lose €10 some of the
time, and make up for it with higher prices, handling fee, or whatever. But it
will probably be off less often then your (well, at least my) inventory is off.
The only thing that is really lacking is packing dimensions besides functional
dimensions. A diagonal part is now considered a solid block by the system, while
it should really have a separate set of dimensions that take into account that
you could put the part flat by rotating it 45 degrees. That is relevant for big
panels for example, but the amount of orders this would really affect is less
than 1%.
|
Thank you for taking the time to respond to our thoughts on the matter. Time
will be the judge of whether it increases sales or not - we don't believe
it will but understand your logic. Fortunately, in life, there are always going
to be differing opinions on matters such as this. As I said earlier when we buy
we look at who has the parts we need not whether they offer auto-checkout or
not but then again we are not shipping cost sensitive as some buyers appear to
be.
As for the database, dimensions are vital whether they be part or packaging and
there is not really any sign of that in the database yet. I am convinced that
BL have held up offering out that change to the database due to the issues they
had in the very beginning about images, intellectual property etc. They may have
seen that BO did not go to the members for that, they incorporated it in their
system from the outset. The data is available somewhere. Lego certainly have
it and probably use it in LDD. We could, of course be wrong, but they aren't
commenting so again we really cannot be sure.
As for the system and how it actually works out shipping costs we, like many
others we communicate with, are waiting on the release of the feature and testing
it in real life before committing to it. That may sound like 'sour grapes'
or something similar but to be honest as we charge postage at cost with no packaging
costs or any other fees, there really isn't any room to manoeuvre. An awful
lot of our orders are bulk orders with 'heavy postage costs' - it wouldn't
take too many of those to start hitting our bottom line and that is something
we are not prepared to get into.
We do believe BL need to offer out a lot more information on how this is going
to work. We have multiple size large letter and small parcel boxes each with
different tare weights and capacities. Is the system going to stop short of choosing
the box and just say it is a large letter. If not how is it going to determine
capacity of the box? We know, for example, exactly how many 2 x 4 bricks will
go into the largest large letter box in the UK. Will they know that? Some of
the stores we buy from take great time and pride out of their packaging getting
as much as possible to lay flat so it will fit in a large letter rather than
a small parcel - is it going to know that? What about large brick orders - we
get lots of those and often find it is more economical to split the order (for
packaging purposes) into two parcels rather than use a medium parcel. It may
be possible to cope with that by setting up an over 2Kg method but really not
sure about it.
We also receive lots of multiple batch orders and we don't have any idea
how that is going to work. We certainly do not wish to end up paying multiple
Pay[pal fees for a single order.
Lots more detail is required and of course in this case the proof of all of this
will take time to emerge.
Anyway - thanks again for your time in responding
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Grego | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 13:05 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, calsbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
I made a tool for myself to generate my invoices, and it generates a shipping
cost table in the invoice. This way, buyers can see where they're at and
how much more they could add. I think the opaque way it is now is OK, as long
as in return, sellers will allow additions or removal of some items. In my opinion
it's not OK if shipping costs are unclear in advance and the seller is rigid
about this after the order is placed. I think that at least the ability to add
more to an order should be mandatory. I don't know any professional webshop
that doesn't allow this.
I get what you're saying about the automatic calculation. You can already
turn on the shipping cost suggestion feature. I am not "using" using it, but
I have it switched on to monitor how it's doing, and I must say it's
usually correct when predicting when something is a letter or a parcel. On
Brickowl there's full auto checkout with this, and there it's correct
95% of the time. (You can debate what to do with the other 5%) I have my weight
bands set up so that they take into account progressively increasing envelope
weight, ie. 20g minus 5g, then 50g minus 10g, or something like that.
|
5% error means 50 orders per 1000 are not correct - that will soon add up for
stores who receive lots of orders - someone is going to have to bear that cost.
|
It's not actually a problem, it's just a fact and shops can handle it
how they like. You can set up your shipping calculation to be either optimistic
or pessimistic, decide whether you will refund any discrepancies in the buyer's
advantage or not. To me it's not a problem. And neither is it to the buyer,
as they always see how much it will cost and decide to pay that for the order.
|
Whilst it may not be a problem for some stores it also may be for others.
Not everyone has moved to BO (for a variety of reasons, of course) but the auto-checkout
over there possibly works based on the fact that the majority of their items
have proper dimensions which the current BL catalogue does not - even if they
are in stud.io or Mosaik). Dimensions are vital and for those parts that do not
have them then the order shouldb't be available to auto-checkout. I think
that is something similar to the way BO works (but not entirely sure as we do
not use that site.
| |
| | Please Bricklink, if you read these threads and accept constructive thoughts
bring in auto-checkout where it will work (no volume/dimension postal systems),
listen to your members, especially those who have been on the site for many,
many years and talk to them. All of that will help to maintain your position
as Lego's leading marketplace.
|
If auto checkout would be implemented in only some countries and not in others,
and this situation would persist for longer than a month, I would honestly shut
down my store and leave Bricklink. I think fair competition is the basic foundation
of this marketplace, if this would be compromised I would take my business elsewhere,
just on principle.
Anyway, it is not rocket science. It already almost works. All that's needed
before it can go live is hard data (all parts' dimensions have to be in the
database) and an easy (semi)automatic way to send refunds for missing parts.
That's just about it. They could get this fixed up in a month, but I guess
realistically it will take another year at least.
|
It is relatively easy to gloss over and make the issues surrounding this appear
to be simple and straightforward, after all the other site had it at their launch,
so I am told, however the BL team are not having the easiest of times getting
everyone behind this or getting the code/system right. Where it works, implement
it. Not all countries are the same - where it doesn't yet work solve the
problems and then with what they have learned from the other implementations
move on. I do not see why people suggest that by not using auto-checkout we
would be disadvantaged. As a buyer who has made just under 1000 purchases in
my time on the site I have never even considered auto-checkout. It isn't
going to increase sales and the only tangible thing it may or may not do is prevent
NPB's. It might make it easier for those buyers who are shipping cost sensitive
to see the full price before they place and pay for their order, but we provide
all that information anyway, and give the buyer a choice of how they want their
items shipped. Auto-checkout is not the panacea people make it out to be. As
and when it arrives and it can be shown to work for the UK postal system we will
look at it further - I do believe, like many others that is a way off yet, but
for those countries where it works and works well why not give them an opportunity
to get on with it. People are not going to buy from a seller just because they
use auto-checkout - they buy because they have the parts at the right price and
are reliable and more and more because they do not charge additional fees. Postage
at cost and that is it.
Good luck with this, anyway, we will be watching the issue very closely, as I
am sure many others will be doing as well. Of the stores that we are in regular
communications with none have spent any real time looking at the preview site
and all but 1 have said they will not be implementing it as and when it arrives
- but did not rule it out in the future.
|
You raise two topics, potential problems with the system and how it wouldn't
increase the number of orders. Well, I really think it would increase it alot.
Yes, your reasoning is sound, but on an emotional level, seeing a number on your
screen of what you will pay, and then paying right away, and having bought something
immediately, it's really a big thing. You could argue that the Snickers at
the counter of the supermarket are pointless as they are already in the candy
section and even cheaper at that..... still, it works, and it's a strategy
used worldwide. Auto checkout really takes away an emotional barrier I think.
Well, we could discuss that endlessly probably, but in the end we won't know
until it is there. But I'll just say that I really believe it's a "thing".
As for problems with the algorythms, I don't really see what could be the
problem. Well, I see one potential issue: Part dimensions are missing and the
order shows up as costing €10 more shipping that it actually costs to post. That's
the worst thing that could happen, right?
So is that that bad? OK, it could be an order missed. But parts with missing
dimensions will be rare - and already are rare. I don't understand what makes
you say it's way off? So far, I really haven't had any of these issues
yet. Shipping cost suggestion is simply correct for all orders I checked. Miscalculations
would be somewhere in the order of 1 out of a 100 (neglible even if the added
popularity because of auto checkout is only 1%). And even if it happens, a buyer
may still go through with the order. And as a seller the extra €10 spent on shipping&handling
is really yours to fairly keep, although you could also decide to refund it.
It's not like it would undermine in the system, a shop, or someone's
administration. You can also set it up in a way you will lose €10 some of the
time, and make up for it with higher prices, handling fee, or whatever. But it
will probably be off less often then your (well, at least my) inventory is off.
The only thing that is really lacking is packing dimensions besides functional
dimensions. A diagonal part is now considered a solid block by the system, while
it should really have a separate set of dimensions that take into account that
you could put the part flat by rotating it 45 degrees. That is relevant for big
panels for example, but the amount of orders this would really affect is less
than 1%.
|
Just as important, and just as missing / uncollected is the buyer's postal
/ zip code ... prior to invoicing.
For Other Lettermail, it isn't a problem, it's either Canadian, US or
ROW ..no problem, but if the order is thicker than 2.0 cm and going somewhere
within Canada ..the source and destination postal codes are required to get an
accurate shipping cost. The price varies on distance travelled and can easily
double from local to national ratesecurity.
It may be hard for Europeans to grasp just how big Canada is ... just BC the
province I live in which is a fraction of Canada's total area is larger than
the UK and Ireland combined. It even spans two time zones, in fact, Canada is
(slightly) larger than the entire continient of Europe.
Until Post code information is used in conjunction with volumetric package info,
autocheckout isn't going to be of use to me.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Miffy. | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 09:58 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Why are sellers allowed to switch off the display of cart weight in their store?
What are they trying to hide?
Why is this even an option?
Miffy.
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 10:44 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Miffy. writes:
| | Why are sellers allowed to switch off the display of cart weight in their store?
What are they trying to hide?
Why is this even an option?
Miffy.
|
I do not think they have something to hide but I do not understand why they won't
use it.
The weight opinion is very helpfull for both buyer and seller, I always use it.
I think in almost 100% of the cases it is right, with some thinking, counting
and experience the seller knows the approximate weight of ziplockbags, an envelope
etc. to give the total shippingcosts.
That is why I mention it should be default, maybe even standard.
So I agree, maybe it should not be an option, just a fixed thing.
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 12:40 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hm, I was unaware of that feature, looks like I had it set to hide. I've
changed it now. I wonder if it's because this feature was implemented after
I managed my settings (which I do.. once in like years) or because I had some
reason for it. I can imagine turning it off because it may lead buyers to forget
that unless you live in space, packaging materials are not weightless. I don't
like having to point this out and I don't like to disappoint customers. So
maybe it's an option because it can lead to misunderstandings. But anyway,
I think Bricklink's philosphy should be "here is an awesome feature and we're
using it" and not "here's some feature, it might cause some problems, so
ummmm just see for yourself if you want it or not". So yes, it should be visible
always, and any problems should be solved (like, come with some warning about
packaging weight).
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Miffy. writes:
| | Why are sellers allowed to switch off the display of cart weight in their store?
What are they trying to hide?
Why is this even an option?
Miffy.
|
I do not think they have something to hide but I do not understand why they won't
use it.
The weight opinion is very helpfull for both buyer and seller, I always use it.
I think in almost 100% of the cases it is right, with some thinking, counting
and experience the seller knows the approximate weight of ziplockbags, an envelope
etc. to give the total shippingcosts.
That is why I mention it should be default, maybe even standard.
So I agree, maybe it should not be an option, just a fixed thing.
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Miffy. | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 13:20 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Thanks for the reply. I am confused by it also, but I do think it is a legacy
item from Dan's days, so that makes me think there was clear discussion about
it back then and this was the result. Maybe, due to incomplete weight data in
the catalog and it had been causing problems?
Miffy.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Hm, I was unaware of that feature, looks like I had it set to hide. I've
changed it now. I wonder if it's because this feature was implemented after
I managed my settings (which I do.. once in like years) or because I had some
reason for it. I can imagine turning it off because it may lead buyers to forget
that unless you live in space, packaging materials are not weightless. I don't
like having to point this out and I don't like to disappoint customers. So
maybe it's an option because it can lead to misunderstandings. But anyway,
I think Bricklink's philosphy should be "here is an awesome feature and we're
using it" and not "here's some feature, it might cause some problems, so
ummmm just see for yourself if you want it or not". So yes, it should be visible
always, and any problems should be solved (like, come with some warning about
packaging weight).
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Miffy. writes:
| | Why are sellers allowed to switch off the display of cart weight in their store?
What are they trying to hide?
Why is this even an option?
Miffy.
|
I do not think they have something to hide but I do not understand why they won't
use it.
The weight opinion is very helpfull for both buyer and seller, I always use it.
I think in almost 100% of the cases it is right, with some thinking, counting
and experience the seller knows the approximate weight of ziplockbags, an envelope
etc. to give the total shippingcosts.
That is why I mention it should be default, maybe even standard.
So I agree, maybe it should not be an option, just a fixed thing.
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Miffy. | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 13:18 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I'm going to make a separate suggestion for it then.
Thanks for the reply!
Miffy.
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Miffy. writes:
| | Why are sellers allowed to switch off the display of cart weight in their store?
What are they trying to hide?
Why is this even an option?
Miffy.
|
I do not think they have something to hide but I do not understand why they won't
use it.
The weight opinion is very helpfull for both buyer and seller, I always use it.
I think in almost 100% of the cases it is right, with some thinking, counting
and experience the seller knows the approximate weight of ziplockbags, an envelope
etc. to give the total shippingcosts.
That is why I mention it should be default, maybe even standard.
So I agree, maybe it should not be an option, just a fixed thing.
| |
In Suggestions, tonnic writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | It's a common topic you're addressing. It has been in the making for
many years, but the system almost works. There is already a "shipping cost suggestion"
tool which is often quite accurate, but not always. For this to work, the system
needs to know the exact weight and size of all parts. This database still isn't
100% complete. But I suppose we will be getting there and step by step we're
getting to auto checkout. But expect it to remain this way for at least another
year or two..
Your solution 2 of estimating shipping costs before this database is in place
and 100% complete isn't really a good idea. If you order a brick from me,
pessimistic shipping costs are €18,50 - because the brick could be huge. In reality,
it will be €1,33. So it doesn't really mean anything and it would certainly
scare away alot of buyers.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
A lot of buyers, maybe some sellers too, do not know the weight of the order.
They are not aware of the excistence of a weight function they can select.
Maybe there is a reason but I think this function should be default and, if not
wanted turned of. Not the other way around. I think it is very helpfull in almost
all orders.
Another thing, sometimes understandable but also sometimes common sence can help
quite well, is the fact that if an order is 15 grams of Lego and one of the shipping
tresholds is 20 grams the order with an envelope etc. will rise above the 20
grams.
A few times a year buyers believe that envelopes, small or large, do not weigh
more than 5 grams and that there is no need for an extra stamp.
A seller could, or even should, mention at the parts description that the dimension
or weight does not allow it to be shipped in an envelope but in a (far) more
expensive parcel.
I am still a bit anxious about a system through Bricklink that 'knows'
what shippingcosts must be.
There are so many variations possible.
It is about the amount of the parts, dimension, strangely formed parts, weight,
value, fragility etc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | bb69656 | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 06:27 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| OR make the Quote feature mandatory. Too often Vendor has disabled Quote then
says "oh an order is an order" and sticks on a huge shipping & handling fee.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 06:57 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I hope that won't happen.. I had it switched on for some time and it caused
me alot of extra work, as the chance that the buyer will not go through with
it afterwards is rather large, in some cases leaving me with a pile of items
to sort again.. rather allow for orders that can be modified afterwards, for
example, just thinking out loud now, make it obligatory that a seller must approve
item cancel requests up to at least some percentage of the order value. Quotes
are really too non-committal to me, to me figuring out the best package takes
some commitment from both sides.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | OR make the Quote feature mandatory. Too often Vendor has disabled Quote then
says "oh an order is an order" and sticks on a huge shipping & handling fee.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb69656 | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 08:44 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I quote before assembly. I have the weight of the order and can eyeball for
thick/big items.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | I hope that won't happen.. I had it switched on for some time and it caused
me alot of extra work, as the chance that the buyer will not go through with
it afterwards is rather large, in some cases leaving me with a pile of items
to sort again.. rather allow for orders that can be modified afterwards, for
example, just thinking out loud now, make it obligatory that a seller must approve
item cancel requests up to at least some percentage of the order value. Quotes
are really too non-committal to me, to me figuring out the best package takes
some commitment from both sides.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | OR make the Quote feature mandatory. Too often Vendor has disabled Quote then
says "oh an order is an order" and sticks on a huge shipping & handling fee.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 10:25 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I guess I can maybe 4 times out of 5, every 5th request I really need to put
everything together to see how it turns out. And then I need to somehow mark
it as "already sorted", and it can cause inventory synchronisation conflicts,
so all in all I found it to be alot of work and administrative hassle, even if
I can quote before sorting in the majority of cases.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | I quote before assembly. I have the weight of the order and can eyeball for
thick/big items.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | I hope that won't happen.. I had it switched on for some time and it caused
me alot of extra work, as the chance that the buyer will not go through with
it afterwards is rather large, in some cases leaving me with a pile of items
to sort again.. rather allow for orders that can be modified afterwards, for
example, just thinking out loud now, make it obligatory that a seller must approve
item cancel requests up to at least some percentage of the order value. Quotes
are really too non-committal to me, to me figuring out the best package takes
some commitment from both sides.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | OR make the Quote feature mandatory. Too often Vendor has disabled Quote then
says "oh an order is an order" and sticks on a huge shipping & handling fee.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
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|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 11:27 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I never assemble items when I receive a quote. The only thing I check before
I answer a quote is when the buyer ordered the last item of a lot. Then I check
if it's available. It is however very unlikely because I always check the
remainder of a sold item in my inventory if the remainder is low - below 5 for
example. Then I adjust the number in my inventory.
Actually I see no problem here.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | I guess I can maybe 4 times out of 5, every 5th request I really need to put
everything together to see how it turns out. And then I need to somehow mark
it as "already sorted", and it can cause inventory synchronisation conflicts,
so all in all I found it to be alot of work and administrative hassle, even if
I can quote before sorting in the majority of cases.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | I quote before assembly. I have the weight of the order and can eyeball for
thick/big items.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | I hope that won't happen.. I had it switched on for some time and it caused
me alot of extra work, as the chance that the buyer will not go through with
it afterwards is rather large, in some cases leaving me with a pile of items
to sort again.. rather allow for orders that can be modified afterwards, for
example, just thinking out loud now, make it obligatory that a seller must approve
item cancel requests up to at least some percentage of the order value. Quotes
are really too non-committal to me, to me figuring out the best package takes
some commitment from both sides.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | OR make the Quote feature mandatory. Too often Vendor has disabled Quote then
says "oh an order is an order" and sticks on a huge shipping & handling fee.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
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|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 11:54 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| And is your guess always correct? Or do you guess pessimistically?
In Suggestions, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | I never assemble items when I receive a quote. The only thing I check before
I answer a quote is when the buyer ordered the last item of a lot. Then I check
if it's available. It is however very unlikely because I always check the
remainder of a sold item in my inventory if the remainder is low - below 5 for
example. Then I adjust the number in my inventory.
Actually I see no problem here.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | I guess I can maybe 4 times out of 5, every 5th request I really need to put
everything together to see how it turns out. And then I need to somehow mark
it as "already sorted", and it can cause inventory synchronisation conflicts,
so all in all I found it to be alot of work and administrative hassle, even if
I can quote before sorting in the majority of cases.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | I quote before assembly. I have the weight of the order and can eyeball for
thick/big items.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | I hope that won't happen.. I had it switched on for some time and it caused
me alot of extra work, as the chance that the buyer will not go through with
it afterwards is rather large, in some cases leaving me with a pile of items
to sort again.. rather allow for orders that can be modified afterwards, for
example, just thinking out loud now, make it obligatory that a seller must approve
item cancel requests up to at least some percentage of the order value. Quotes
are really too non-committal to me, to me figuring out the best package takes
some commitment from both sides.
In Suggestions, HPBrickhead writes:
| | OR make the Quote feature mandatory. Too often Vendor has disabled Quote then
says "oh an order is an order" and sticks on a huge shipping & handling fee.
In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
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|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | TheBrickGuys | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 14:36 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | And is your guess always correct? Or do you guess pessimistically?
|
For parts it isn't really guessing but just adding a little bit of weight
and figuring the shipping cost. Envelops are easy to add into the total weight
of the order and so are small boxes for parts, it takes just a couple of seconds
per quote.
Now sets are a different story but not really that much different. For sets,
I will just grab a box that the set will fit into and weigh it. I will add a
little bit more weight for other packing materials like peanuts and the such
and I will have the total weight for a quote figured out in just a matter of
a couple of minutes at most. If I sold more sets then I would just make a chart
of various size boxes and and their weights which would then make it even faster
for figuring out the shipping cost for quotes.
As far as making mistakes, I have made VERY FEW and not enough to affect my bottom
line so I really dont think that is really a valid argument against making quotes
mandatory. At most, I think it just means making ourselves more familiar with
shipping materials and maybe verifying the weights of of sets at the time we
enter them into our inventory and making a note of any discrepancies on the Remarks
line.
Jim
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 17:48 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | And is your guess always correct? Or do you guess pessimistically?
|
For parts it isn't really guessing but just adding a little bit of weight
and figuring the shipping cost. Envelops are easy to add into the total weight
of the order and so are small boxes for parts, it takes just a couple of seconds
per quote.
|
Well, for us it's not; maximum thickness for letter mail is somewhere between
3 and 4 studs, and it's not rare that it's hard for me to imagine how
it would look in an envelope. In these cases I really just need to piece things
together and see how I can make it fit most efficiently. The trouble is that
it will almost always work out, but in case it won't, it will immediately
be some €15 more expensive. So that's quite tricky to quote.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 05:38 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Actually, I think it would be nice if quotes can be answered with "to be determined".
That way I can give out accurate quotes 80% of the time and not end up sorting
a whole order and go through administrative hassle in the other 20%.
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | And is your guess always correct? Or do you guess pessimistically?
|
For parts it isn't really guessing but just adding a little bit of weight
and figuring the shipping cost. Envelops are easy to add into the total weight
of the order and so are small boxes for parts, it takes just a couple of seconds
per quote.
|
Well, for us it's not; maximum thickness for letter mail is somewhere between
3 and 4 studs, and it's not rare that it's hard for me to imagine how
it would look in an envelope. In these cases I really just need to piece things
together and see how I can make it fit most efficiently. The trouble is that
it will almost always work out, but in case it won't, it will immediately
be some €15 more expensive. So that's quite tricky to quote.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 05:42 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Actually, I think it would be nice if quotes can be answered with "to be determined".
That way I can give out accurate quotes 80% of the time and not end up sorting
a whole order and go through administrative hassle in the other 20%.
|
As a buyer asking the shipping cost.. "to be determined" would be as useful as
no reply.
If you ask us for a quote you will get a clear final price.
Robert
| |
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | And is your guess always correct? Or do you guess pessimistically?
|
For parts it isn't really guessing but just adding a little bit of weight
and figuring the shipping cost. Envelops are easy to add into the total weight
of the order and so are small boxes for parts, it takes just a couple of seconds
per quote.
|
Well, for us it's not; maximum thickness for letter mail is somewhere between
3 and 4 studs, and it's not rare that it's hard for me to imagine how
it would look in an envelope. In these cases I really just need to piece things
together and see how I can make it fit most efficiently. The trouble is that
it will almost always work out, but in case it won't, it will immediately
be some €15 more expensive. So that's quite tricky to quote.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 11:41 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Really? I don't agree.. if no reply is given, the buyer would still be waiting.
I don't want to just ignore part of the requested quotes, that's why
I don't use it entirely.
In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Actually, I think it would be nice if quotes can be answered with "to be determined".
That way I can give out accurate quotes 80% of the time and not end up sorting
a whole order and go through administrative hassle in the other 20%.
|
As a buyer asking the shipping cost.. "to be determined" would be as useful as
no reply.
If you ask us for a quote you will get a clear final price.
Robert
| |
In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | In Suggestions, TheBrickGuys writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | And is your guess always correct? Or do you guess pessimistically?
|
For parts it isn't really guessing but just adding a little bit of weight
and figuring the shipping cost. Envelops are easy to add into the total weight
of the order and so are small boxes for parts, it takes just a couple of seconds
per quote.
|
Well, for us it's not; maximum thickness for letter mail is somewhere between
3 and 4 studs, and it's not rare that it's hard for me to imagine how
it would look in an envelope. In these cases I really just need to piece things
together and see how I can make it fit most efficiently. The trouble is that
it will almost always work out, but in case it won't, it will immediately
be some €15 more expensive. So that's quite tricky to quote.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 08:20 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Actually, I think it would be nice if quotes can be answered with "to be determined".
That way I can give out accurate quotes 80% of the time and not end up sorting
a whole order and go through administrative hassle in the other 20%.
|
What would the point be? A quote should be what it will cost. Telling them you
don't know doesn't help the buyer.
If I asked for a quote and was told that the seller will not provide it, I'd
go elsewhere.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 25, 2017 11:38 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, Teup writes:
| | Actually, I think it would be nice if quotes can be answered with "to be determined".
That way I can give out accurate quotes 80% of the time and not end up sorting
a whole order and go through administrative hassle in the other 20%.
|
What would the point be? A quote should be what it will cost. Telling them you
don't know doesn't help the buyer.
If I asked for a quote and was told that the seller will not provide it, I'd
go elsewhere.
|
Well, ok, that would be fair enough. But it's better than a seller spending
half an hour and then the buyer will go elsewhere. Now I have to choose
between being uncertain about the quote I'm giving, or having to spend time
and make administration for nothing. I can predict shipping costs usually,
but if I turn on the quote feature, I would need to be able to do it always..
so I cannot use the feature.
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| | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 06:42 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
|
The catalog doesn't have correct dimensions.
Postage for 80 gram flowers is letter rate while 80 gram of Burps is parcel rate.
| | (ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
|
I would not prefer to be charged the highest rate automatically.
| | Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Jul 24, 2017 09:13 | | Subject: | Re: Get shipping costs BEFORE final checkout | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, rumbi_rumun writes:
| | In my opinion the largest problem of the Bricklink page is that the final shipping
costs are often unknown till the invoice. It is much too late. I suggest calculating
the maximum shipping costs before the final checkout.
Let me display an example:
The buyer Alice orders parts which weigh 80 grams. The seller Bob states that
the shipping costs are 3 EUR up to 100 grams and 4 EUR up to 200 grams. Bob means
the TOTAL weight while from Alice's point of view the weight of packing materials
is unknown and never stated. This way Alice doesn't know the final price.
(Btw. I suppose it is against the EU law.)
Once I have come across such a case that in seller's opinion the maximum
net weight of parts was about 30 grams to keep the total weight below 100 grams!
Is it fair and clear?
I can see the following solutions:
(i) suggest the buyers to state their shipping costs precisely, in terms of net
weight of parts or dimensions of parts
(ii) apply automatic calcultion of maximum shipping costs on the checkout page
so that the seller couldn't apply higher costs.
The latter one is much better.
Best regards
Tomasz Witkowski / rumbi_rumun
Gdynia, Poland
|
Hi,
I have the option for Buyers in my Store ask for Quote.
Iám not only Seller , you can't Sell when you don't Buy.
I like the Quote option, sorry to say, when i take a look at placed orders from
buyers only 4-5 % asked for the Quote.
Regards,
Steekstra
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Poland, w. Pomorskie
Netherlands, Utrecht
Finland, Pohjanmaa
United Kingdom, England
Canada, Ontario
USA, California
