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| | | Author: | enig  | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 19:26 | | Subject: | Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 589 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
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| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 19:38 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 118 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
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It would be quicker and preferrable for the community to address this issue through
existing means.
For example:
- All those neutrals, but no negatives, that are probably deserved.
- Post the sellers name and let people judge for themselves.
-
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| | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:03 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 106 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
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One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback and they most likely will not read any other recommendations.
Check sellers with a history of bad feedback and you will note that they get
orders after orders. Why do you think that any other system (like the recent
FB percentage on top of every store) will prevent non-reading buyers from buying
in these stores?
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| | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:05 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 95 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback and they most likely will not read any other recommendations.
Check sellers with a history of bad feedback and you will note that they get
orders after orders. Why do you think that any other system (like the recent
FB percentage on top of every store) will prevent non-reading buyers from buying
in these stores?
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BL dealing with such sellers on personal terms would change it. I dont think
there is a system where other than direct approach would give results.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:15 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
|
One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback and they most likely will not read any other recommendations.
Check sellers with a history of bad feedback and you will note that they get
orders after orders. Why do you think that any other system (like the recent
FB percentage on top of every store) will prevent non-reading buyers from buying
in these stores?
|
BL dealing with such sellers on personal terms would change it. I dont think
there is a system where other than direct approach would give results.
|
Then you would have to change the business model of BrickLink Ltd. first.
BrickLink.com acts as the venue for sellers to sell LEGO® related items and
for buyers to buy sellers' items. We are not involved in the actual transactions
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality,
safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings,
the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We
cannot and do not control whether or not sellers will complete the sale of items
they offer or buyers will complete the purchase of items they have purchased.
Because we do not and cannot be involved in member-to-member dealings you agree
to release BrickLink.com from claims, demands and damages of every kind in connection
with your use of the site.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:20 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
|
One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback and they most likely will not read any other recommendations.
Check sellers with a history of bad feedback and you will note that they get
orders after orders. Why do you think that any other system (like the recent
FB percentage on top of every store) will prevent non-reading buyers from buying
in these stores?
|
BL dealing with such sellers on personal terms would change it. I dont think
there is a system where other than direct approach would give results.
|
Then you would have to change the business model of BrickLink Ltd. first.
BrickLink.com acts as the venue for sellers to sell LEGO® related items and
for buyers to buy sellers' items. We are not involved in the actual transactions
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality,
safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings,
the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We
cannot and do not control whether or not sellers will complete the sale of items
they offer or buyers will complete the purchase of items they have purchased.
Because we do not and cannot be involved in member-to-member dealings you agree
to release BrickLink.com from claims, demands and damages of every kind in connection
with your use of the site.
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Bricklink has absolute control over who has buying and selling privileges, however,
and it can - and has - revoked these privileges for various reasons. It would
not need to become directly involved with any individual transactions in order
to set standards for maintaining selling and buying privileges. Indeed, it already
does this. Some members think those standards should be changed.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:26 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
|
One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback and they most likely will not read any other recommendations.
Check sellers with a history of bad feedback and you will note that they get
orders after orders. Why do you think that any other system (like the recent
FB percentage on top of every store) will prevent non-reading buyers from buying
in these stores?
|
BL dealing with such sellers on personal terms would change it. I dont think
there is a system where other than direct approach would give results.
|
Then you would have to change the business model of BrickLink Ltd. first.
BrickLink.com acts as the venue for sellers to sell LEGO® related items and
for buyers to buy sellers' items. We are not involved in the actual transactions
between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality,
safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings,
the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We
cannot and do not control whether or not sellers will complete the sale of items
they offer or buyers will complete the purchase of items they have purchased.
Because we do not and cannot be involved in member-to-member dealings you agree
to release BrickLink.com from claims, demands and damages of every kind in connection
with your use of the site.
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Yes. They need this kind of statement so they will not get sued when Joe
gets scammed by Jack for a new $1500 UCS Millenium Falcon.
The question is whether BL is OK with the reputation going downhill.
Some sellers do not care about their reputation (i.e. their feedback). They wont
do anything to fix it, except dish out a retaliatory FB and move on to the next
one.
Does BL care about it's reputation? Are they willing to do something about
it?
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| | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:55 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback...
|
And that's because the feedback system is broken. If a buyer leaves a negative
against a seller for a clear error in shipping, they expect to get a retaliatory
negative, and probably get banned from that store, in return, which could get
their subsequent orders cancelled. And they might find (or fail to notice) that
the seller comes here and complains about an "unreasonable" buyer, and a dozen
other stores will ban them. And knowing that buyers aren't going to be truthful
about bad sellers, what could possibly be the point of trusting feedback scores
to be honest? And then what's the point in paying attention to them?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 21:10 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback...
|
And that's because the feedback system is broken. If a buyer leaves a negative
against a seller for a clear error in shipping, they expect to get a retaliatory
negative, and probably get banned from that store, in return, which could get
their subsequent orders cancelled. And they might find (or fail to notice) that
the seller comes here and complains about an "unreasonable" buyer, and a dozen
other stores will ban them. And knowing that buyers aren't going to be truthful
about bad sellers, what could possibly be the point of trusting feedback scores
to be honest? And then what's the point in paying attention to them?
|
I don't see that as a problem with the feedback system itself. That's
a cultural thing.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 22:11 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, 62Bricks writes:
| | I don't see that as a problem with the feedback system itself. That's
a cultural thing.
|
You don't see retaliatory negative feedback, retaliatory negative bannings,
and retaliatory (but false) naming-and-shaming resulting in more bogus bannings
as a sign that the feedback system doesn't work? Feedback _is_ a cultural
thing. And this site's culture punishes honest feedback. In some cases,
it even punishes the failure to automatically rubberstamp every transaction with
glowing feedback. There are sellers here who are probably more concerned with
notching their belt with another positive feedback than they are with earning
it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 22:23 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, 62Bricks writes:
| | I don't see that as a problem with the feedback system itself. That's
a cultural thing.
|
You don't see retaliatory negative feedback, retaliatory negative bannings,
and retaliatory (but false) naming-and-shaming resulting in more bogus bannings
as a sign that the feedback system doesn't work? Feedback _is_ a cultural
thing. And this site's culture punishes honest feedback. In some cases,
it even punishes the failure to automatically rubberstamp every transaction with
glowing feedback. There are sellers here who are probably more concerned with
notching their belt with another positive feedback than they are with earning
it.
|
Yeah, we're saying the same thing. I'm just making a distinction between
the nuts and bolts of the feedback system and the way in which it is used here.
BL's feedback system could actually be helpful if more people used it as
I think it was intended. But as you say, the culture has taken it in a different
direction.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 22:01 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback...
|
And that's because the feedback system is broken. If a buyer leaves a negative
against a seller for a clear error in shipping, they expect to get a retaliatory
negative, and probably get banned from that store, in return, which could get
their subsequent orders cancelled. And they might find (or fail to notice) that
the seller comes here and complains about an "unreasonable" buyer, and a dozen
other stores will ban them. And knowing that buyers aren't going to be truthful
about bad sellers, what could possibly be the point of trusting feedback scores
to be honest? And then what's the point in paying attention to them?
|
Does that really happen that often though?
I cannot see a case where someone could come here and complain about a buyer
with 200 feedback who left a single negative that would lead to a ton of stoplistings.
(In the same way that the best sellers do not just "happen" to get 30 negatives
as some people claim happens to all stores)
Now, when it does happen to a buyer, it has been in the cases where someone has
10 feedback and they have left 5 negatives, 2 neutrals, and 3 positives in return.
Sometimes new buyers have fundamental misunderstandings about the feedback system
and that is something that is fully on the Bricklink team. In the past, I have
suggested a system that does not allow new buyers to leave immediate neutral
or negative feedback. Some sort of system needs to developed to separate the
"I got ripped off" from the "ZOMG.....my brickz took 2 dayz to get here!!1!!!1".
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_420435 | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 16:49 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 17:05 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| BL is a commerce site, so it is not surprising that most topics concern buying
/ selling, and concentrate on problems. There are many better forums for Lego
fans.
One thing I'm still surprised at is how many sellers have little interest
in Lego beyond selling it. But I guess for some it is just a business commodity.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 18:49 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | BL is a commerce site, so it is not surprising that most topics concern buying
/ selling, and concentrate on problems. There are many better forums for Lego
fans.
One thing I'm still surprised at is how many sellers have little interest
in Lego beyond selling it. But I guess for some it is just a business commodity.
|
Where is the evidence here for this claim? Beyond the one store that posted
a "guide".
As I have said before, many of the large stores have hundreds, if not thousands
of contributions to the BL site and catalog.
How does that demonstrate that "...it is just a business commodity"?
Just makes no sense.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 18:56 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | BL is a commerce site, so it is not surprising that most topics concern buying
/ selling, and concentrate on problems. There are many better forums for Lego
fans.
One thing I'm still surprised at is how many sellers have little interest
in Lego beyond selling it. But I guess for some it is just a business commodity.
|
Where is the evidence here for this claim? Beyond the one store that posted
a "guide".
As I have said before, many of the large stores have hundreds, if not thousands
of contributions to the BL site and catalog.
|
Which could be purely business related to be able to sell these items...
| |
How does that demonstrate that "...it is just a business commodity"?
Just makes no sense.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_420435 | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 19:31 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 19:43 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | BL is a commerce site, so it is not surprising that most topics concern buying
/ selling, and concentrate on problems. There are many better forums for Lego
fans.
One thing I'm still surprised at is how many sellers have little interest
in Lego beyond selling it. But I guess for some it is just a business commodity.
|
Where is the evidence here for this claim? Beyond the one store that posted
a "guide".
As I have said before, many of the large stores have hundreds, if not thousands
of contributions to the BL site and catalog.
|
Which could be purely business related to be able to sell these items...
|
If you are a cynic, then of course that could be the case. Yet, that provides
no compelling evidence that this is the reason.
Nor does it explain why some who are here passionately making the case that they
care so much more about Lego and BL than some big sellers have very few contributions
to the site.
Scott
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| |
How does that demonstrate that "...it is just a business commodity"?
Just makes no sense.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 20:06 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | BL is a commerce site, so it is not surprising that most topics concern buying
/ selling, and concentrate on problems. There are many better forums for Lego
fans.
One thing I'm still surprised at is how many sellers have little interest
in Lego beyond selling it. But I guess for some it is just a business commodity.
|
Where is the evidence here for this claim? Beyond the one store that posted
a "guide".
As I have said before, many of the large stores have hundreds, if not thousands
of contributions to the BL site and catalog.
|
Which could be purely business related to be able to sell these items...
|
If you are a cynic, then of course that could be the case.
|
No cynicism, but experience.
Even worse are those who don't contribute at all but regularly drop PMs to
the catalog like
"when will you finally approve this and that, I want to sell it!!1!!1"
| | Yet, that provides
no compelling evidence that this is the reason.
Nor does it explain why some who are here passionately making the case that they
care so much more about Lego and BL than some big sellers have very few contributions
to the site.
Scott
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| |
How does that demonstrate that "...it is just a business commodity"?
Just makes no sense.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 17:37 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, izzi_rust writes:
| | There's no LUG available near me, and no others AFOLs that I know... so this
is my community, too.
|
I don't know where in Virginia you're from, nor do I know if you're
right or wrong, but zoom in on your corner of the map and see if maybe there's
a LUG you aren't aware of:
https://lan.lego.com/lugs
Also, you may need to redefine what you call "near", if you really do want to
get involved with a LUG. MichLUG operates primarily in the Metro Detroit area,
but I joined when I was living in Holland, about 3 hours away, and there were
other members who lived even farther away than I did. Even though we formed
a western chapter, one of their members (probably 3:30 away) still shows up to
some of the regular MichLUG displays a few times a year (bonus: it gives him
a chance to visit the local LEGO Store). Our club president lives about two
hours away from where most of our displays take place.
Again, you may have to redefine "near", but also realize that just because you
live right near the rest of your LUG doesn't mean all your show opportunities
will be in your backyard. I'm lucky in that I'm one of a handful of
members who seem to live within 10 miles of the majority of our shows, but we've
got one coming up next weekend that's about a 25 mile drive (which I'll
have to drive three times), and another show at the end of the month that will
be about an hour drive each way.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_420435 | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 19:21 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 9, 2015 01:11 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, izzi_rust writes:
| | You're right. There's a LUG a little over 2 hours away, and it's
huge from what I've seen on their site, but I'm having issues with traveling
that distance right now, and my window to the world is the one I'm typing
into.
Maybe soon! 
|
Well, there ya go. We have a member who is in a similar situation. We don't
hinge upon him being there, but we welcome him when he is. Hopefully travel
will become easier for him in the future, but I'm not holding my breath.
| | There is a LUG that meets within 15 minutes of me, though. It's 3 guys that
have been doing it forever together. The group itself meets maybe 3 times a
year, and their main focus is playing microspace war. Which is cool, that was
my first exposure, and seeing what they were doing gave me some awesome inspiration.
|
That's...weird. Not bad, necessarily, but weird. To be honest, the son
of a guy I used to work for in college started attending Brickworld a few years
ago, and all his group does is miniatures gaming, but with minifigs instead of
traditional plastic or white metal miniatures. And I've actually met Evil
Stevie (though he's into train/town layouts now). So it's not something
I haven't run into before.
| | They are sort of hostile though to myself and the few other newcomers to the
group I saw for the 1 1/2 years I went to their meetings. What finally through
me off was all of the group events- group builds, small set alt builds (everybody
doing a version of the same), and my absolute favorite instance- LUGBulk, where
reserved exclusively for these 3.
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Yeah, that's kind of a problem, then. On the plus side, it now takes like
20 participants to qualify for RLUG status, so the only way they'd be able
to get in on LUGBulk would be to join in with a larger LUG, and that means control
would be out of their hands.
| | I was even asked if I would like to participate in order, told them my $ amount,
but along with 2 others, got forgotten when the order was placed by the core
3.
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Actually, that may be a much bigger problem. I don't think it was ever possible
for any group of less than ten participating members to place an order, so it
could be that what they were doing was padding their list with names so they
could order in the first place, and then splitting up the "extra" shares between
themselves. I know they've cracked down on some non-compliant LUGs, so maybe
they were one of them. The real problem for you is that if your name were to
pop up in two LUGs for LUGBulk, you'll get rejected from both. On the plus
side, you do have to register individually (in the past the LUG rep just submitted
a list of names), so it's a bit harder to fraudulently borrow someone else's
identity for cheating the LUGBulk system.
| | When I'm able to move more freely, though, I'll try ranging out.
|
Soon, hopefully. Worse comes to worst, you also live is relatively close proximity
to Brick Fair. There might be some online-only LUGs that plan group displays
that they would exhibit there. I know the Eurobricks forum and VirtuaLUG both
do elaborate group displays at Brickworld Chicago, even though many of the members
are also members of their local LUGs (and might display with them as well).
| | I actually started a Lego Club at our local library in my initial excitement
coming back to the hobby. I had to back off of that, though, because I was the
only one bringing any bricks and handling the kids. The cost of damage and "lost"
pieces finally became to much for me to absorb by myself.
Plus 30+ kids were kicking my butt!
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Yeah, we get a lot of queries about that sort of things, but that's a step
beyond babysitting. I mean, we do set out playbrick at some shows, but we just
leave the kids to do their own thing if they'd rather not look at our layout.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Spiritparticles | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 20:19 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, izzi_rust writes:
| | There's no LUG available near me, and no others AFOLs that I know... so this
is my community, too.
|
I don't know where in Virginia you're from, nor do I know if you're
right or wrong, but zoom in on your corner of the map and see if maybe there's
a LUG you aren't aware of:
https://lan.lego.com/lugs
Also, you may need to redefine what you call "near", if you really do want to
get involved with a LUG. MichLUG operates primarily in the Metro Detroit area,
but I joined when I was living in Holland, about 3 hours away, and there were
other members who lived even farther away than I did. Even though we formed
a western chapter, one of their members (probably 3:30 away) still shows up to
some of the regular MichLUG displays a few times a year (bonus: it gives him
a chance to visit the local LEGO Store). Our club president lives about two
hours away from where most of our displays take place.
Again, you may have to redefine "near", but also realize that just because you
live right near the rest of your LUG doesn't mean all your show opportunities
will be in your backyard. I'm lucky in that I'm one of a handful of
members who seem to live within 10 miles of the majority of our shows, but we've
got one coming up next weekend that's about a 25 mile drive (which I'll
have to drive three times), and another show at the end of the month that will
be about an hour drive each way.
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Hi Purple Dave, how would I go about finding the western chapter? I did a quick
google but only found some out of dat meetings.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 21:07 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Spiritparticles writes:
| | Hi Purple Dave, how would I go about finding the western chapter? I did a quick
google but only found some out of dat meetings.
|
http://www.michlug.org
http://www.wmltc.org
The top link is the main club, and the second one is the western chapter. Membership
in WMLTC automatically enrolls you in MichLUG, but I don't know if there
are any extra requirements for MichLUG members to join WMLTC. We're working
in making the main site easier to keep up to date (20+ shows and 6 meetings per
year means we are averaging at least one commitment every two weeks), but I think
WMLTC has been pretty good about staying on top of their site.
So, what's coming up is MichLUG has a show in Saline this weekend, will be
appearing at Great Lakes Comic-Con the last weekend of the month, and will be
installing a multi-week exhibit at the Flint Institute of Art. The weekend between,
WMLTC will be down in Indiana (see what I mean about redefining "near"?). I
see that WMLTC has a show in St Joe at the end of March, but I don't know
what MichLUG has on tap after this month. We should have a meeting around then,
but I don't know where, and I have no idea when/where WMLTC holds their meetings.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Spiritparticles | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 21:24 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, Spiritparticles writes:
| | Hi Purple Dave, how would I go about finding the western chapter? I did a quick
google but only found some out of dat meetings.
|
http://www.michlug.org
http://www.wmltc.org
The top link is the main club, and the second one is the western chapter. Membership
in WMLTC automatically enrolls you in MichLUG, but I don't know if there
are any extra requirements for MichLUG members to join WMLTC. We're working
in making the main site easier to keep up to date (20+ shows and 6 meetings per
year means we are averaging at least one commitment every two weeks), but I think
WMLTC has been pretty good about staying on top of their site.
So, what's coming up is MichLUG has a show in Saline this weekend, will be
appearing at Great Lakes Comic-Con the last weekend of the month, and will be
installing a multi-week exhibit at the Flint Institute of Art. The weekend between,
WMLTC will be down in Indiana (see what I mean about redefining "near"?). I
see that WMLTC has a show in St Joe at the end of March, but I don't know
what MichLUG has on tap after this month. We should have a meeting around then,
but I don't know where, and I have no idea when/where WMLTC holds their meetings.
|
Great I'll look into finding out more.
Here's something I just found out about that I'll definitely be checking
out.
http://www.muskegonartmuseum.org/media-room/press-releases/392
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 21:46 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Spiritparticles writes:
| | Great I'll look into finding out more.
|
Both club sites have contact links, and you might be able to get better information
that way.
Muskegon seems a bit small for one of his exhibits, but I know he's been
bouncing around all over the place for about a decade, where most regular museum
displays might go on a rotation where they tour for a couple years and go back
in the vault.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | One of the reason why *any* system will not change it, is that buyers don't
read feedback...
|
And that's because the feedback system is broken. If a buyer leaves a negative
against a seller for a clear error in shipping, they expect to get a retaliatory
negative, and probably get banned from that store, in return, which could get
their subsequent orders cancelled. And they might find (or fail to notice) that
the seller comes here and complains about an "unreasonable" buyer, and a dozen
other stores will ban them. And knowing that buyers aren't going to be truthful
about bad sellers, what could possibly be the point of trusting feedback scores
to be honest? And then what's the point in paying attention to them?
|
So do what eBay does. Buyers get to rate sellers, and sellers can only report
buyers for misbehavior that involves ToS violations. It removes the retaliatory
issue totally.
Oh, and while they are changing things, get a system that collects instant payments
when the order is submitted. That would clean out 90% of the buyer misbehavior.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 22:17 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | Oh, and while they are changing things, get a system that collects instant payments
when the order is submitted. That would clean out 90% of the buyer misbehavior.
|
That works really well with eBay because everything is priced with shipping for
single-unit sales. Here, bulk orders are the norm, and I find myself adding
to way too many orders to want instant-checkout to be enforced. Besides that,
I only submit payments from one computer, which I keep at home and don't
use for general surfing. I sometimes place quick orders at work, while visiting
friends or family, and even from shows, where I would never log into Paypal.
EBay does allow you to RFQ for a batch of items, which is being introduced here,
but the difference is that on eBay it's basically treated the same as placing
an order here. It removes stock from salable inventory, and the buyer commits
to buying it without knowing the exact final cost (though they at least know
an upper bound if they add up all the price+shipping).
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| | | | | Author: | Brockmeister | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:05 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Thanks for the posting. I have also purchased and received "complete" sets that
were missing parts-- or had the incorrect part colors or variants. Perhaps
the worst part is that reselling Used sets is not rocket science. It is as simple
as matching up the parts to the inventory list, and making notes on any parts
that are missing. In an effort to make things more simple for those who struggle,
here are some step-by-step instructions:
1. Disassemble Used LEGO set.
2. Wash and dry all non-electric parts.
3. Sort parts on a clean towel or bed sheet.
4. Open the Inventory page for the set.
5. Move down the list and note any parts missing.
6. Bag parts in LEGO cellophane bags from sets you bought or parted out.
7. Print a label with set number, name, year, and any notes.
8. Post set for resale, LISTING any missing parts or substitutions.
In fact, I just performed this process again today for:
The set is already posted for sale in my shop.... And whoever buys it WILL NOT
be disappointed!
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| | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 20:29 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 77 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Addressing this type of issue is not easy, however both Ebay and Amazon have
implemented better systems than BL.
Just like a seller is only authorized a certain number of NSS and NRS, it would
make sense to also only allow a certain number of certain other violations.
Perhaps reviewing any seller with over X negatives or over Y% negatives, and
suspending sellers if deemed appropriate.
But it should be based on review, not just negative count or %.
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| | | | | | | Author: | ScootersBricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 21:02 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 85 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | Addressing this type of issue is not easy, however both Ebay and Amazon have
implemented better systems than BL.
Just like a seller is only authorized a certain number of NSS and NRS, it would
make sense to also only allow a certain number of certain other violations.
Perhaps reviewing any seller with over X negatives or over Y% negatives, and
suspending sellers if deemed appropriate.
But it should be based on review, not just negative count or %.
|
Otherwise, huge sellers (toyburg, toybrickbrigade) who do good work would eventually
get suspended just for doing huge amounts of orders, while tiny stores could
get by with crappy feedback for quite awhile.
I like the idea of having a quality percentage that you need to reach--although
closing a store might not be the only option. What about:
99.8% or greater feedback in the last year, with 500 or more feedback - Seller's
fees are reduced to 2% instead of 3%
96%-98% with 100 or more feedback in the last year- Seller no longer can send
Wanted emails. To compensate for the greater amount of effort staff must exert
handling issues common to stores in this feedback range, seller's fees will
be 4% of total sales.
94%-95.99% with 100 or more feedback in the last year- Seller no longer shows
up in search results for parts, but will still show up on the Price Guide for
an individual piece, and can also be accessed and shopped at manually. Seller's
fees comprise 6% of total sales.
93.99% or below with 100 or more feedback in the last year- Seller's store
is suspended. Store may become un-suspended after 12 months.
Something like this could provide extra revenue for Bricklink from the not-so-awesome
stores, and give Bricklink the necessary financial capital to do additional order-related
staff duties, such as handling disputes, revisiting the rules for retaliatory
feedback, and so on. Since someone with 100% good feedback isn't going to
be likely to run into a lot of feedback disputes, they won't be punished
in such a system.
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| | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 21:26 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
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Many sellers want you to contact them before leaving any feedback. They don't
want the negative or neutral mark. They want to make things right for you. That's
fine, but the time to make things right is before the items ship. The time to
make things right is when you are verifying the contents of a set. The time to
make things right is when you are inspecting your parts for quality and listing
them under the correct entry.
Instead, I think the relatively informal nature of the community leads some sellers
to be informal in their dealings. They perhaps rely on the fact that customers
often will not speak up over small issues.
It's like Jang describes it - his fire truck set had a few common parts switched.
He had the right parts in his collection. It cost him nothing to fix it, and
he felt bad telling the seller about it or asking for a replacement or refund
for less than $1 in common pieces. It's probable the seller would make good
if he asked, but as he says, he shouldn't have to ask.
Nobody is perfect. I've shipped three orders that were missing parts. I had
one recently where I chucked a chewed piece into my inventory and a good piece
into my reject bin - watching a movie while sorting. When someone bought the
piece, I grabbed a few out of inventory and sent off a badly damaged piece. I'm
glad my buyer was patient and notified me so I could replace it. I'm glad
he did that before leaving negative feedback. But if he had left a negative,
I would have deserved it.
I see so many posts here where sellers are berating buyers who leave legitimate
negative feedback. The standard complaint from sellers is that the buyer should
have contacted them first. But it's like Jang says - they shouldn't have
to.
So there is a culture here where sellers think they have two or three chances
to get the order right, and where buyers have been made to believe it. I got
a second chance on this recent order with the damaged piece, but I'm not
going to assume that the next customer is going to give me two or three tries
to get it right. I don't think other sellers should, either.
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| | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 22:02 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, 62Bricks writes:
| | So there is a culture here where sellers think they have two or three chances
to get the order right, and where buyers have been made to believe it. I got
a second chance on this recent order with the damaged piece, but I'm not
going to assume that the next customer is going to give me two or three tries
to get it right. I don't think other sellers should, either.
|
Our LUG does a ridiculous amount of shows (most active in the entire world, with
the only real competition coming from the western chapter of our same club).
In general, if I don't have something in time to do a show this week, I'll
probably be able to display it within a month tops. However, I only get one
shot at Brickworld for the year. If I don't have it by the time I pack my
car, and I haven't made arrangements to accept delivery in Chicago, I've
got a problem that can't be fixed by just dropping the correct parts in the
mail a week later. A couple years ago, I tried to build a second turntable for
one of my cars, and I needed close to 1000 parts to complete it. I specifically
checked with the one seller who could ship the three largest lots I needed, to
make sure I'd have them before leaving for Chicago (didn't even care
if I had to build it on site). With three weeks lead time I was guaranteed that
I would receive them by a specific date. The parts were waiting for me at the
Post Office the day I got back home. The order was all there, but it didn't
really matter anymore, and I still haven't had another opportunity to put
out both turntables at the same time, a year and a half later.
Last year I built a LEGO Store model that ran more pieces than the UCS MF. I
got started on it a few months in advance of Brickworld, and I had to redesign
sections of it at least twice. I got lucky in that I don't think I had a
singe order that was missing critical parts (though one order was entirely the
wrong color), and I think I finished it a week before packing my car. If some
of those early orders had been incomplete, it could have delayed my redesigns
long enough that I wouldn't have finished it in time.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Remko100 | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 03:12 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| [SNIP]
| |
Many sellers want you to contact them before leaving any feedback. They don't
want the negative or neutral mark. They want to make things right for you. That's
fine, but the time to make things right is before the items ship. The time to
make things right is when you are verifying the contents of a set. The time to
make things right is when you are inspecting your parts for quality and listing
them under the correct entry.
|
You are right about the time to meke things right is before shipping, but we
all make little mistakes. If this happens once in a while, it is nice you can
fix it, before getting feedbacked. Although the "neutral", should in fact maybe
used for these cases. It's not negative, but it wasn't perfect at first,
so neutral would do if the issue is solved in a nice way.
[SNIP]
| |
So there is a culture here where sellers think they have two or three chances
to get the order right, and where buyers have been made to believe it. I got
a second chance on this recent order with the damaged piece, but I'm not
going to assume that the next customer is going to give me two or three tries
to get it right. I don't think other sellers should, either.
|
You have got a point there. I recently got me some pieces from a buyer that were
the wrong ones. I communicated this and he would send me the right ones. I recieved
the parts and...they were wrong again. So I gave a neutral feedback. Then I got
an message stating it was unfair, because I could have asked AGIAN for the right
pieces....
It takes a certain amount of precision to check inventories. This is a human
aspect some people naturally have and others don't. It is, however, the only
way to get your sets truely complete and your buyers happy (still at 100% positive
feedback, fingers crossed  )
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| | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 21:55 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 136 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
Not necessarily replying to each of Lukas' individual points, but just a
few notes and ideas on these issues...
1.) This issue was discussed at length at the BL Roundtable in Seattle and it
is on BL's radar. The prevailing idea is that 4 levels of grading will be
used for used parts. 1 would equal something "like new" or thereabouts, while
4 would be "my dog ate it before I listed it"
2.) These types of statements like "Bricklink is going down" or "their reputation
is bad" are nothing without any real proof and lots of it. The fact that a few
people come to the forum here (or any other forum) and complain is natural for
a site with the volume that BL has. (It has already been established here that
a minute percentage of users actually post here) If this is someone's personal
opinion, it should be noted as such. Otherwise, come forward with the hundreds
of unique complaint posts posted over a very short, recent period of time. Even
in the case of this seller, his or her x number of transactions are likely a
proverbial drop in the bucket.
The overwhelming majority of BL buyers and sellers are honest people and it
is unfair to lump "Bricklink" in with a few of these yahoos.
Bricklink is growing fast in spite of some of these issues, so it must not be
hurting them that much.
3.) Many of these issues can be taken care of by some of the basic concepts
that Scooter talked about in his post. I would like to add another to the pile.
If BL charged a minimum monthly charge, much of these people would go
away.
It could be something simple and small like $10, which is like prepaying the
first $10 of fees each month.
Putting up little roadblocks like this have been beneficial for many other sites.
Many of the people that somehow cannot manage to get parts in the mail for 2-3
weeks probably cannot pull things together and make a $10 monthly payment! I
know that won't work for those of your that sell $2 in parts a month, but
I think that it will make the site much stronger and safer. BL could always
spin off a part of the site for no fee hobby stores that can sell something like
$50 a month with no fees.
4.) Some ideas have been tossed around about resolved NSS claims and such. Longtime
forum readers remember "Brri*******", who ripped people off for a long time,
across at least two accounts and they got around the consequences by simply refunding
all of the NSS claims that were filed. I am all for giving people a chance,
but at some point, 10 or 20 resolved NSS claims show that something is
not working. As I have said here before, we have shipped nearly 4.5 million
parts in the last 3+ years here on BL and we have had exactly two NSS claims
filed against us. In both cases, the shipments showed as delivered and in both
cases the buyers "found" the shipment once we passed that information on to them.
This belief that big stores just get NSS claims left and right is just plain
silly.
4b.) This also goes for any other site manipulation. Using the "pay too much
on my bill so I am in the Top 60" trick should be treated just like any other
sort of dishonesty. I am sure that there are hundreds of other similar issues
that speak to the honesty level of a store.
5.) Buyers...while you may care about your feedback and want it to be 100%, it
really doesn't matter. As long as it is not below zero, you will be fine.
(...and if someone really says they won't sell to you because you have 50
positives and 1 negative, do you really want to buy from them?)
Suck it up and leave neutrals or negatives when they are deserved.
Now, this is not to say that stores should not be given a chance to make things
right, but if they tell you take a jump when you ask for some sort of resolution,
then that deserves non-positive feedback. This will provide something actionable
for BL to use to get these people off of Bricklink. I have said it many, many
times here...
there is no reason for any store to have 150+ neutrals and 75+ negatives.
I don't care how big they are, I don't care how busy they are, I don't
care how cheap they sell parts/sets, I don't care how big or small they are,
I don't care what other sorts of useless excuses they come up with. These
stores are a cancer on BL and need to go away. That goes for the "I never leave
positives and only use feedback to retaliate" crowd as well.
6.) Featured/Highlighted/etc... stores should be reserved for the cream of the
BL crop. If you get a couple negatives in a month, that should disqualify the
store from being on any of the lists. New buyers may feel like those stores
have been vetted, but if they are selling used as new, not shipping in a timely
fashion, etc... they should not appear on those lists.
Whew...that was a lot!
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 22:18 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
Not necessarily replying to each of Lukas' individual points, but just a
few notes and ideas on these issues...
1.) This issue was discussed at length at the BL Roundtable in Seattle and it
is on BL's radar. The prevailing idea is that 4 levels of grading will be
used for used parts. 1 would equal something "like new" or thereabouts, while
4 would be "my dog ate it before I listed it"
2.) These types of statements like "Bricklink is going down" or "their reputation
is bad" are nothing without any real proof and lots of it. The fact that a few
people come to the forum here (or any other forum) and complain is natural for
a site with the volume that BL has. (It has already been established here that
a minute percentage of users actually post here) If this is someone's personal
opinion, it should be noted as such. Otherwise, come forward with the hundreds
of unique complaint posts posted over a very short, recent period of time. Even
in the case of this seller, his or her x number of transactions are likely a
proverbial drop in the bucket.
The overwhelming majority of BL buyers and sellers are honest people and it
is unfair to lump "Bricklink" in with a few of these yahoos.
Bricklink is growing fast in spite of some of these issues, so it must not be
hurting them that much.
3.) Many of these issues can be taken care of by some of the basic concepts
that Scooter talked about in his post. I would like to add another to the pile.
If BL charged a minimum monthly charge, much of these people would go
away.
It could be something simple and small like $10, which is like prepaying the
first $10 of fees each month.
Putting up little roadblocks like this have been beneficial for many other sites.
Many of the people that somehow cannot manage to get parts in the mail for 2-3
weeks probably cannot pull things together and make a $10 monthly payment! I
know that won't work for those of your that sell $2 in parts a month, but
I think that it will make the site much stronger and safer. BL could always
spin off a part of the site for no fee hobby stores that can sell something like
$50 a month with no fees.
4.) Some ideas have been tossed around about resolved NSS claims and such. Longtime
forum readers remember "Brri*******", who ripped people off for a long time,
across at least two accounts and they got around the consequences by simply refunding
all of the NSS claims that were filed. I am all for giving people a chance,
but at some point, 10 or 20 resolved NSS claims show that something is
not working. As I have said here before, we have shipped nearly 4.5 million
parts in the last 3+ years here on BL and we have had exactly two NSS claims
filed against us. In both cases, the shipments showed as delivered and in both
cases the buyers "found" the shipment once we passed that information on to them.
This belief that big stores just get NSS claims left and right is just plain
silly.
4b.) This also goes for any other site manipulation. Using the "pay too much
on my bill so I am in the Top 60" trick should be treated just like any other
sort of dishonesty. I am sure that there are hundreds of other similar issues
that speak to the honesty level of a store.
5.) Buyers...while you may care about your feedback and want it to be 100%, it
really doesn't matter. As long as it is not below zero, you will be fine.
(...and if someone really says they won't sell to you because you have 50
positives and 1 negative, do you really want to buy from them?)
Suck it up and leave neutrals or negatives when they are deserved.
Now, this is not to say that stores should not be given a chance to make things
right, but if they tell you take a jump when you ask for some sort of resolution,
then that deserves non-positive feedback. This will provide something actionable
for BL to use to get these people off of Bricklink. I have said it many, many
times here...
there is no reason for any store to have 150+ neutrals and 75+ negatives.
I don't care how big they are, I don't care how busy they are, I don't
care how cheap they sell parts/sets, I don't care how big or small they are,
I don't care what other sorts of useless excuses they come up with. These
stores are a cancer on BL and need to go away. That goes for the "I never leave
positives and only use feedback to retaliate" crowd as well.
6.) Featured/Highlighted/etc... stores should be reserved for the cream of the
BL crop. If you get a couple negatives in a month, that should disqualify the
store from being on any of the lists. New buyers may feel like those stores
have been vetted, but if they are selling used as new, not shipping in a timely
fashion, etc... they should not appear on those lists.
Whew...that was a lot!
Scott
|
I think having a graded scale from 1-4 would quadruple the problem of getting
parts in worse shape than expected. It would also quadruple the storage requirements
for sellers.
A monthly fee or minimum charge is a fine idea.
One way other sites reward good shops is by better placement in search results.
One simple way would be to set the search results to sort by shop feedback as
the default. Start encouraging buyers and sellers to value service and part quality
over just price.
My idea: Every listing over $5.00 requires a photo from the seller. It would
raise the quality of listings, reduce misunderstandings, and discourage scammers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 03:18 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, 62Bricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
|
|
snip
| |
I think having a graded scale from 1-4 would quadruple the problem of getting
parts in worse shape than expected. It would also quadruple the storage requirements
for sellers.
|
We do not sell used parts and I would never buy used parts for myself unless
absolutely necessary, but the buyers at the roundtable seemed to be highly receptive
to the idea. Their main complaint was that beyond the odd note here and there,
it was often a crapshoot when ordering used from an unknown BL store.
Scott
| |
A monthly fee or minimum charge is a fine idea.
One way other sites reward good shops is by better placement in search results.
One simple way would be to set the search results to sort by shop feedback as
the default. Start encouraging buyers and sellers to value service and part quality
over just price.
My idea: Every listing over $5.00 requires a photo from the seller. It would
raise the quality of listings, reduce misunderstandings, and discourage scammers.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 07:19 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, 62Bricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
|
|
snip
| |
I think having a graded scale from 1-4 would quadruple the problem of getting
parts in worse shape than expected. It would also quadruple the storage requirements
for sellers.
|
We do not sell used parts and I would never buy used parts for myself unless
absolutely necessary, but the buyers at the roundtable seemed to be highly receptive
to the idea. Their main complaint was that beyond the odd note here and there,
it was often a crapshoot when ordering used from an unknown BL store.
Scott
|
I've found it's still a crap shoot ordering from a stores where you've
placed orders before and which have great feedback. I can imagine disputes arising
over whether a part is a "2" or a "3." I'd prefer a simpler plan where a
used part is either acceptable or damaged.
| | | |
A monthly fee or minimum charge is a fine idea.
One way other sites reward good shops is by better placement in search results.
One simple way would be to set the search results to sort by shop feedback as
the default. Start encouraging buyers and sellers to value service and part quality
over just price.
My idea: Every listing over $5.00 requires a photo from the seller. It would
raise the quality of listings, reduce misunderstandings, and discourage scammers.
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 22:32 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | The overwhelming majority of BL buyers and sellers are honest people and it
is unfair to lump "Bricklink" in with a few of these yahoos.
|
Until _Bricklink_ does something to at least red-flag them, they are by default
lumped in with everyone else. And the feedback system isn't doing the job.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Etown | | Posted: | Feb 7, 2015 23:32 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 101 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | Not necessarily replying to each of Lukas' individual points, but just a
few notes and ideas on these issues...
|
Hi Scott. I enjoyed reading your post, I think you make a lot of good points.
| |
1.) This issue was discussed at length at the BL Roundtable in Seattle and it
is on BL's radar. The prevailing idea is that 4 levels of grading will be
used for used parts. 1 would equal something "like new" or thereabouts, while
4 would be "my dog ate it before I listed it"
|
I'm interested to see how this works. At first glance it seems like that
amount of work - categorizing all used parts into 4 distinct categories and having
seperate listings for each of the four. I wonder if this would make selling used
parts so difficult that many sellers would stop altogether unless they pick one
or two categories and only list/sell parts that fall into those. Also, organizing
even a moderate sized store can be daunting - this may add a layer (or two) to
that as well.
Overall, I like the idea I just wonder how practical it will be for sellers.
| |
2.) These types of statements like "Bricklink is going down" or "their reputation
is bad" are nothing without any real proof and lots of it. The fact that a few
people come to the forum here (or any other forum) and complain is natural for
a site with the volume that BL has. (It has already been established here that
a minute percentage of users actually post here) If this is someone's personal
opinion, it should be noted as such. Otherwise, come forward with the hundreds
of unique complaint posts posted over a very short, recent period of time. Even
in the case of this seller, his or her x number of transactions are likely a
proverbial drop in the bucket.
The overwhelming majority of BL buyers and sellers are honest people and it
is unfair to lump "Bricklink" in with a few of these yahoos.
Bricklink is growing fast in spite of some of these issues, so it must not be
hurting them that much.
|
THANK YOU!! Nothing against the OP - he brings up a very valid point. But I often
see these threads descend into generalizing most BL sellers that couldn't
care less about their buyers. This makes me sad, but I also think it's very
far from the truth. Given the amount of orders on a daily basis, someone out
there is doing a good job. A few bad apples should not spoil the batch.
| |
3.) Many of these issues can be taken care of by some of the basic concepts
that Scooter talked about in his post. I would like to add another to the pile.
If BL charged a minimum monthly charge, much of these people would go
away.
It could be something simple and small like $10, which is like prepaying the
first $10 of fees each month.
Putting up little roadblocks like this have been beneficial for many other sites.
Many of the people that somehow cannot manage to get parts in the mail for 2-3
weeks probably cannot pull things together and make a $10 monthly payment! I
know that won't work for those of your that sell $2 in parts a month, but
I think that it will make the site much stronger and safer. BL could always
spin off a part of the site for no fee hobby stores that can sell something like
$50 a month with no fees.
|
Are you suggesting that the $10 would count the same value against the monthly
selling fees? If so, I think this might be an excellent idea.
Would the fee still be required if the store is closed for whatever reason?
| | 4.) Some ideas have been tossed around about resolved NSS claims and such. Longtime
forum readers remember "Brri*******", who ripped people off for a long time,
across at least two accounts and they got around the consequences by simply refunding
all of the NSS claims that were filed. I am all for giving people a chance,
but at some point, 10 or 20 resolved NSS claims show that something is
not working. As I have said here before, we have shipped nearly 4.5 million
parts in the last 3+ years here on BL and we have had exactly two NSS claims
filed against us. In both cases, the shipments showed as delivered and in both
cases the buyers "found" the shipment once we passed that information on to them.
This belief that big stores just get NSS claims left and right is just plain
silly.
4b.) This also goes for any other site manipulation. Using the "pay too much
on my bill so I am in the Top 60" trick should be treated just like any other
sort of dishonesty. I am sure that there are hundreds of other similar issues
that speak to the honesty level of a store.
5.) Buyers...while you may care about your feedback and want it to be 100%, it
really doesn't matter. As long as it is not below zero, you will be fine.
(...and if someone really says they won't sell to you because you have 50
positives and 1 negative, do you really want to buy from them?)
Suck it up and leave neutrals or negatives when they are deserved.
|
I don't really understand why this isn't a more common view point amongst
buyers. I don't go through my orders and before processing, cancel any with
more than say 3 negs. Who cares if that obnoxious seller gives you a negative.
There are what 8000 stores? Leave honest FB and move on.
| |
Now, this is not to say that stores should not be given a chance to make things
right, but if they tell you take a jump when you ask for some sort of resolution,
then that deserves non-positive feedback. This will provide something actionable
for BL to use to get these people off of Bricklink. I have said it many, many
times here...
there is no reason for any store to have 150+ neutrals and 75+ negatives.
I don't care how big they are, I don't care how busy they are, I don't
care how cheap they sell parts/sets, I don't care how big or small they are,
I don't care what other sorts of useless excuses they come up with. These
stores are a cancer on BL and need to go away. That goes for the "I never leave
positives and only use feedback to retaliate" crowd as well.
6.) Featured/Highlighted/etc... stores should be reserved for the cream of the
BL crop. If you get a couple negatives in a month, that should disqualify the
store from being on any of the lists. New buyers may feel like those stores
have been vetted, but if they are selling used as new, not shipping in a timely
fashion, etc... they should not appear on those lists.
|
Agreed.
| |
Whew...that was a lot!
Scott
|
Thank you, great post.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 00:18 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 102 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Etown writes:
| | Are you suggesting that the $10 would count the same value against the monthly
selling fees? If so, I think this might be an excellent idea.
Would the fee still be required if the store is closed for whatever reason?
|
That would be a sticky situation. It's not fair to charge someone a full
monthly fee if they aren't even open during that month (it's not a mall
where the space is unavailable to rent to someone else regardless of whether
it's open for business), but I could also see a problem developing real fast
where people close their store but openly post a password to get in and shop
anyways. Sure, it leaves them out of the price guide and part listings, but
it might make sense to impose it on all stores that log at least one sale for
the month.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 03:13 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, Etown writes:
| | Are you suggesting that the $10 would count the same value against the monthly
selling fees? If so, I think this might be an excellent idea.
Would the fee still be required if the store is closed for whatever reason?
|
That would be a sticky situation. It's not fair to charge someone a full
monthly fee if they aren't even open during that month (it's not a mall
where the space is unavailable to rent to someone else regardless of whether
it's open for business), but I could also see a problem developing real fast
where people close their store but openly post a password to get in and shop
anyways. Sure, it leaves them out of the price guide and part listings, but
it might make sense to impose it on all stores that log at least one sale for
the month.
|
I think I see it as a fee to have a store on the main site. If one is not willing
to put $x a month (It doesn't have to be exactly $10...I only picked that
because $5 seemed like too little and $20 seemed like too much) towards their
selling efforts here then maybe selling on BL is not for them.
I don't know that I would totally exclude those that do not pay the fee,
I would just move those stores onto a BL hobby sales site or different portion
of the main site. I would also take those listings and sales out of the main
site price guide and search. (Along with dropping the outliers and many of the
other ideas that have been discussed here) It might be reasonable to have a
set of requirements for the hobby site in lieu of the fee. (No retaliatory feedback,
no completed NSS, must accept trade offers, etc...)
There is also the fringe benefit that it would make one more small roadblock
for the scammers.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 03:39 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, Etown writes:
| | Are you suggesting that the $10 would count the same value against the monthly
selling fees? If so, I think this might be an excellent idea.
Would the fee still be required if the store is closed for whatever reason?
|
That would be a sticky situation. It's not fair to charge someone a full
monthly fee if they aren't even open during that month (it's not a mall
where the space is unavailable to rent to someone else regardless of whether
it's open for business), but I could also see a problem developing real fast
where people close their store but openly post a password to get in and shop
anyways. Sure, it leaves them out of the price guide and part listings, but
it might make sense to impose it on all stores that log at least one sale for
the month.
|
I think I see it as a fee to have a store on the main site. If one is not willing
to put $x a month (It doesn't have to be exactly $10...I only picked that
because $5 seemed like too little and $20 seemed like too much) towards their
selling efforts here then maybe selling on BL is not for them.
|
? This would give the businesses advantage.
| | I don't know that I would totally exclude those that do not pay the fee,
I would just move those stores onto a BL hobby sales site or different portion
of the main site. I would also take those listings and sales out of the main
site price guide and search.
|
This would give the businesses advantage
| | (Along with dropping the outliers and many of the
other ideas that have been discussed here) It might be reasonable to have a
set of requirements for the hobby site in lieu of the fee. (No retaliatory feedback,
no completed NSS, must accept trade offers, etc...)
There is also the fringe benefit that it would make one more small roadblock
for the scammers.
|
The greatness of Bricklink is that businesses and hobbyists are on the same site
together sharing the same passion.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 05:19 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In my experience, my two worst purchases have been from bigger businesses, not
hobbyists. In fact, the reason I very rarely purchase used parts is down to these
two businesses.
I wouldn't want hobbyists to get shunted in favour of bugger sellers. I see
no evidence at all that these problems are due to hobby sellers. They are due
to sloppy sellers, they can be big or small.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 05:47 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Spot on.
On uploading used parts, I always check for my self: "Would I be happy to receive
this?" Whenever the anser is NO, the part goes into the bin, unless it's
a rare piece. In that case, I try to describe as detailed as possible the condition
of the part.
Maintaining high standards for oneself prevents in most cases selling crappy
parts.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 62Bricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 07:33 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In my experience, my two worst purchases have been from bigger businesses, not
hobbyists. In fact, the reason I very rarely purchase used parts is down to these
two businesses.
I wouldn't want hobbyists to get shunted in favour of bugger sellers. I see
no evidence at all that these problems are due to hobby sellers. They are due
to sloppy sellers, they can be big or small.
|
(Bugger sellers indeed!)
That is true in my experience, too. A small minimum would be very effective for
filtering out sloppy sellers on the small side, but wouldn't have much effect
on large ones.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 14:07 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, 62Bricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | In my experience, my two worst purchases have been from bigger businesses, not
hobbyists. In fact, the reason I very rarely purchase used parts is down to these
two businesses.
I wouldn't want hobbyists to get shunted in favour of bugger sellers. I see
no evidence at all that these problems are due to hobby sellers. They are due
to sloppy sellers, they can be big or small.
|
(Bugger sellers indeed!)
That is true in my experience, too. A small minimum would be very effective for
filtering out sloppy sellers on the small side, but wouldn't have much effect
on large ones.
|
This would obviously not be the sole requirement, but used in conjunction with
others that help ensure quantity. As we discussed last week, Bricklink doesn't
look like it does today without the big sellers whether you like them or not.
A small fee like this addresses several concerns in regards to pricing, quality,
and general conduct for both large and small stores.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 14:24 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Bricklink doesn't look like it does today without small sellers either. I
cannot see how having a minimum monthly fee addresses quality or lack of it.
It address the minimum turnover and penalises sellers that miss it.
If anything, it may drive down quality as smaller stores have to have a larger
turnover and so maybe do not double check orders before sending them due to having
to rush to fulfill all their orders, whereas before they may have had more time
to devote to being the best they could. It may also drive down prices, since
some sellers would need to cut prices to drive sales to meet their targets, or
pay the fees based on the missed target.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 15:46 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Bricklink doesn't look like it does today without small sellers either. I
cannot see how having a minimum monthly fee addresses quality or lack of it.
It address the minimum turnover and penalises sellers that miss it.
|
Yeah, the current fees are what, 3% of total sales? So a $10 monthly minimum
fee means you'd have to clear $333.34 _every_month_ to cover your fees.
I imagine most stores here don't do that by a long shot. And it may seem
that eliminating the small sellers would be beneficial when you're a big
seller, but if you didn't get my order before, it's because you don't
have what I want at that moment. Maybe next month you will, and I'll buy
from you then, but if it becomes harder for me to find what I want, or afford
it when I do find it, maybe all that means is my last round of purchases leaves
me too broke to buy from you anyways. "You" being used in the general sense,
and not specifically referring to the person I'm replying to.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 09:03 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | I think I see it as a fee to have a store on the main site. If one is not willing
to put $x a month (It doesn't have to be exactly $10...I only picked that
because $5 seemed like too little and $20 seemed like too much) towards their
selling efforts here then maybe selling on BL is not for them.
|
And again, would you see this fee charged to stores even when they're closed?
How about when they're closed but accessible by password?
Regardless, as a buyer who regularly orders from hobby sellers because the "businesses"
don't have what I want, charge well more than I'd care to pay, or have
a high minimum and nothing else that I'd care to buy at the moment, I can't
support anything that makes hobby sellers as inaccessible as removing them from
the part listings and price guide. That is exactly how I shop.
Figure out a solution that only punishes the shoddy sellers and I'll support
it. But the prevailing opinion here seems to suggest that a lot of the drop
in quality has come from big sellers who started cutting corners or just stopped
caring about quality, and those people probably sell enough to generate $10 in
fees each month no problem. This "solution" wouldn't touch any of them,
but it would punish _me_, as a buyer with no store. Justify that.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 14:18 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | I think I see it as a fee to have a store on the main site. If one is not willing
to put $x a month (It doesn't have to be exactly $10...I only picked that
because $5 seemed like too little and $20 seemed like too much) towards their
selling efforts here then maybe selling on BL is not for them.
|
And again, would you see this fee charged to stores even when they're closed?
|
Easy.
Closed for an entire month, then the fee is not charged or is refunded.
| | How about when they're closed but accessible by password?
|
They are open at that point and the fee is charged.
...or they could go the eBay route and simply charge it no matter what. You
have items on the site in your store, you get charged.
| |
Regardless, as a buyer who regularly orders from hobby sellers because the "businesses"
don't have what I want, charge well more than I'd care to pay, or have
a high minimum and nothing else that I'd care to buy at the moment, I can't
support anything that makes hobby sellers as inaccessible as removing them from
the part listings and price guide. That is exactly how I shop.
|
May be the case, but the site is also full of businesses that have to compete
with people that have no profit motive, pay no taxes, etc... This a akin to
owning a McDonald's and having your landlord allow a small hamburger stand
to set up in the parking lot.
There has to be some balance between the two. If all types of stores and buyers
are going to exist here on BL, there is going to have to be some give and take.
This is the same issue as the stores that just use feedback to retaliate. (businesses
or otherwise) Bricklink needs to do something about them as well. Doing something
about them helps make the site better even if it doesn't individually impact
each member in the same way.
| |
Figure out a solution that only punishes the shoddy sellers and I'll support
it. But the prevailing opinion here seems to suggest that a lot of the drop
in quality has come from big sellers who started cutting corners or just stopped
caring about quality, and those people probably sell enough to generate $10 in
fees each month no problem. This "solution" wouldn't touch any of them,
but it would punish _me_, as a buyer with no store. Justify that.
|
As I said in another reply, the $10 fee would just be one strategy among a number
of other strategies that BL could implement to address the concerns of the widest
number of members.
You can be as anti big seller as you want, but without them BL isn't what
it is today and part prices are much higher and part quantities are much lower.
You combine something like this with much tougher enforcement of the NSS rules
and some adjustments to the price guide and BL is a much more stable place with
fewer scam sellers.
I am sure there will be a handful of people that might be upset, but BL may have
to do that to make things safer and more stable for everyone else.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 15:31 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | There has to be some balance between the two. If all types of stores and buyers
are going to exist here on BL, there is going to have to be some give and take.
|
Giving the hobby sellers the finger and taking the priceguide/part listings away
from them is not the answer. Remember, most of what is being said here points
to sloppy business sellers being the source of this grief, so driving the hobby
sellers out of business not only fails to fix the problem, but indeed helps make
it worse!
| | You can be as anti big seller as you want, but without them BL isn't what
it is today and part prices are much higher and part quantities are much lower.
|
I never claimed to be, nor said anything that should indicate that I'm against
big sellers. I don't care about high minimums if I need a lot of parts.
Buying from one store saves on shipping in most cases (though some large sellers
have prices that are at least twice as expensive than anyone else, so sometimes
that backfires). My issue is that removing the hobby sellers from the site makes
it hard for me to get odd parts when I don't need anything else, or the only
big sellers that have them either want twice as much for just the parts as a
hobby seller might ask for parts and shipping, or they don't have anything
that I want enough to meet their high minimum. I mean, if it takes me 20 orders
to complete a MOC, it's okay if a few of them are large, but I can't
afford to be dropping $25 on every order. Granted, some business sellers have
sub-$10 minimums, which is nice, but even with them I've sometimes had to
spend half an hour digging through their entire inventory to pick out every last
part I could possibly want just to get one lot that I really need.
So I really prefer a mix like we have now. I understand that as a business seller,
anything that drives out the hobby sellers seems like it would help steer more
business your way, but it will also drive buyers away, to sites like eBay, Amazon,
and Brickowl.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 18:45 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 109 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | There has to be some balance between the two. If all types of stores and buyers
are going to exist here on BL, there is going to have to be some give and take.
|
Giving the hobby sellers the finger and taking the priceguide/part listings away
from them is not the answer. Remember, most of what is being said here points
to sloppy business sellers being the source of this grief, so driving the hobby
sellers out of business not only fails to fix the problem, but indeed helps make
it worse!
| | You can be as anti big seller as you want, but without them BL isn't what
it is today and part prices are much higher and part quantities are much lower.
|
I never claimed to be, nor said anything that should indicate that I'm against
big sellers. I don't care about high minimums if I need a lot of parts.
Buying from one store saves on shipping in most cases (though some large sellers
have prices that are at least twice as expensive than anyone else, so sometimes
that backfires).
|
My fault then I guess. I was using "you" in a general sense, and not in a "PurpleDave"
sense.
Yet, as I said, it was my fault for taking "...because the "businesses" don't
have what I want, charge well more than I'd care to pay, or have a high minimum
and nothing else that I'd care to buy at the moment..." as being anti
"business" or anti large seller.
I didn't even touch the inference that the drop in quality is solely due
to the "large sellers". There is no real evidence for that and despite the continual
claims here on the forum of "...OMG the huge stores are all terrible, everyone
knows that..." I have provided example after example of huge stores with sterling
reputations. (Toy Brick Brigade, Toyburg, etc...) The number of great large
stores and businesses far outweighs the small collection of terrible stores.
In addition, there may be just as many small stores making the same mistakes.
BL's approach should penalize the bad actors no matter their size.
This all seems to me to built on some sort of weird assumption that small stores
"care more about Lego" or are "bigger fans" of Lego and those assumptions make
no sense at all. There may be just as many small sellers "in it for the money"...I
don't see how anyone would know that one way or the other. As I said in
a recent post about that issue, many of the large stores have contributed far
more to the BL site than many of the small stores, which seems to go against
the claims that large stores don't care.
Personally, I have made orders from large stores and small stores alike and the
error rate was just about the same between the two. Nothing close to allowing
me to generalize that one is "worse" than the other.
| | My issue is that removing the hobby sellers from the site makes
it hard for me to get odd parts when I don't need anything else, or the only
big sellers that have them either want twice as much for just the parts as a
hobby seller might ask for parts and shipping, or they don't have anything
that I want enough to meet their high minimum. I mean, if it takes me 20 orders
to complete a MOC, it's okay if a few of them are large, but I can't
afford to be dropping $25 on every order. Granted, some business sellers have
sub-$10 minimums, which is nice, but even with them I've sometimes had to
spend half an hour digging through their entire inventory to pick out every last
part I could possibly want just to get one lot that I really need.
|
Do you believe that a store that pays $800 a month to a site should have exactly
the same features that a store that pays $1 a month has? (and here on BL there
are many stores that don't even pay a penny)
| |
So I really prefer a mix like we have now. I understand that as a business seller,
anything that drives out the hobby sellers seems like it would help steer more
business your way, but it will also drive buyers away, to sites like eBay, Amazon,
and Brickowl.
|
I have never said to get rid of the hobby sellers. I simply said that if there
are stores that are not willing to put forth a nominal amount to display their
commitment to selling on Bricklink and the rules set forth for sellers that they
should not be given access the same features as those that are willing to put
forward that commitment.
It really has nothing to do with "driving out hobby sellers". What is has to
do with is removing the people who cannot seem to adhere to the potential best
practices for BL. I don't care how large a store is, but if they are shipping
10 business days after payment or shipping in a used pasta box, or snapping together
new parts when they are shipped, or whatever, they are bad for Bricklink and
should either be removed from the site or moved to a not so professional Craigslist
style area where buyers know what to expect.
Do you think it is fair that business sellers who must pay taxes have even footing
with people that don't even claim their sales on their taxes? Should stores
with a great deal of negative feedback be featured in search results right along
with other stores that have sterling feedback?
Charge a fee to make sure that the people selling here are here for the right
reasons. Put some skin into the game and make the site better for everyone.
Scott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jamesuniverse | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 18:53 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | This all seems to me to built on some sort of weird assumption that small stores
"care more about Lego" or are "bigger fans" of Lego and those assumptions make
no sense at all. There may be just as many small sellers "in it for the money"...I
don't see how anyone would know that one way or the other. As I said in
a recent post about that issue, many of the large stores have contributed far
more to the BL site than many of the small stores, which seems to go against
the claims that large stores don't care.
|
Not really going to add much, but I know some mega stores (500,000 and even in
the millions of items) that build some fantastic MOCs. This guy isn't in
that big of range yet, but he still builds awesome stuff with a pretty significant
store (With 43 feedback this week!)
http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=theHellmouth
(He is not a close friend nor did he ask me to advertise.)
~JU
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 23:38 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 74 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | My fault then I guess. I was using "you" in a general sense, and not in a "PurpleDave"
sense.
|
I came close to doing that myself, which I suspect you might have noticed by
your phrasing.
| | Yet, as I said, it was my fault for taking "...because the "businesses" don't
have what I want, charge well more than I'd care to pay, or have a high minimum
and nothing else that I'd care to buy at the moment..." as being anti
"business" or anti large seller.
|
I know I've ordered from you, and I don't recall any problems (at least
none that were critical, but like some other buyers here I have gotten lax about
holding some of them accountable for errors). It's not that I've ever
had a problem with big sellers in a general sense, but that sometimes they're
too big for my needs, or don't have what I need in stock. For instance,
when I built my LEGO Store, I needed five 1x1 round plates in 40 different colors.
I pulled much of it from my own spare parts, and added a large chunk to larger
orders. But I had several colors that I had to order as a one-lot order (often
from Europe). In those cases, minimum purchases would have likely prevented
me from being able to place orders (I actually have five spares in light-lime
because the only seller I could buy them from required x10 increments). And
you may not have a minimum order, but most business sellers do. Sometimes it's
a big store that works best for me, and other times it's a small one. And
that's not even getting into the whole New/Used issue. Variety of sellers
is just as important as variety of parts, since every buyer is looking for something
different every time they log on here.
| | I didn't even touch the inference that the drop in quality is solely due
to the "large sellers". There is no real evidence for that and despite the continual
claims here on the forum of "...OMG the huge stores are all terrible, everyone
knows that..."
|
I know that most of the errors I've run across tend to be buried in large
orders. Two issues that come to mind are that some sellers were talking about
dropping the packing list as an unnecessary expense, and some large stores employ
pickers to pull and ship orders (having outgrown the ability of one person to
keep up with the customers). I've found that I'm less likely to find
problems with orders that have packing slips that have been checked off by item
(just one more opportunity to catch the problem before it becomes a Problem),
and no matter how awesome a company is, new employees require training and take
time to learn the ropes, and the person who seemed like the best employee ever
when you hired them could easily just be a very personable but incompetent worker
who burns your reputation (something that's less likely to happen with a
one-person hobby store).
Also, a store that only sees one sale a month can be just the worst, but nobody
will really notice. One hundred such stores will hardly register. One really
huge store that moves tens of thousands of dollars worth of orders every month
can just drop off a bit in quality for a little while and it's going to be
talked about. Regular and major problems, and it's going to become a regular
conversation.
| | This all seems to me to built on some sort of weird assumption that small stores
"care more about Lego" or are "bigger fans" of Lego and those assumptions make
no sense at all. There may be just as many small sellers "in it for the money"...I
don't see how anyone would know that one way or the other.
|
I think the logic there is that someone who isn't really making any money
obviously wouldn't be in it for the money. It's never to say that all
big sellers are just about the money (I've personally seen Troy C. and his
brother display on more than one occasion, and there was a time when Troy had
one of the largest stores in the world), just that it's hard to imagine someone
doing this if it involves twice as much work and half the pay as flipping burgers
at McDonald's, unless they have a more personal interest in the brick.
| | Do you believe that a store that pays $800 a month to a site should have exactly
the same features that a store that pays $1 a month has? (and here on BL there
are many stores that don't even pay a penny)
|
Remember when eBay had a huge scandal because they were seen as protecting Power
Sellers who we're pulling tricks or simply screwing up orders, because they
generated large sums of money in seller fees? While there is an argument for
affording them greater rewards for being so large, there's just as compelling
an argument for greater oversight.
| | I have never said to get rid of the hobby sellers.
|
No, you just suggesting giving stores that might only generate a few dozen dollars
in annual sales a choice between paying $120 per year for the privilege of paying
money to give parts, or being practically invisible and inaccessible to prospective
buyers. When I look in the price guide, AS A BUYER, I expect and deserve to
see all of the options available to me, not just the ones that are profitable
enough to afford a listing fee.
| | I don't care how large a store is, but if they are shipping
10 business days after payment or shipping in a used pasta box, or snapping together
new parts when they are shipped, or whatever, they are bad for Bricklink and
should either be removed from the site or moved to a not so professional Craigslist
style area where buyers know what to expect.
|
And a listing fee will do exactly jack to fix all of that. If a big seller is
screwing up, a $10 listing fee is meaningless if they get to deduct it out of
their three-figure monthly fees. They probably won't even remember that
there is a listing fee after a year has gone by. But all the really small hobby
sellers that help boost the inventory and appeal of this site will evaporate,
leaving no way to replace large sellers when they shut down for good. With that,
the site will rapidly lose appeal.
| | Do you think it is fair that business sellers who must pay taxes have even footing
with people that don't even claim their sales on their taxes?
|
Stores that are large never have been on equal footing with small hobby stores.
By virtue of their inventory, they are guaranteed to see many more orders, and
often much larger ones. By virtue of their higher sales volume, they can replenish
inventory faster and better than hobby sellers.
| | Should stores with a great deal of negative feedback be featured in search results right along
with other stores that have sterling feedback?
|
That is entirely unrelated to the idea of monthly listing fees. Again, a large
store can shrug off a $120 nick in their annual income, and moreso if it's
deducted from their monthly fees. In fact, by driving out all the small hobby
sellers (good or bad), it will just funnel more business to any large stores
that don't have their act together.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 9, 2015 01:44 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | My fault then I guess. I was using "you" in a general sense, and not in a "PurpleDave"
sense.
|
I came close to doing that myself, which I suspect you might have noticed by
your phrasing.
| | Yet, as I said, it was my fault for taking "...because the "businesses" don't
have what I want, charge well more than I'd care to pay, or have a high minimum
and nothing else that I'd care to buy at the moment..." as being anti
"business" or anti large seller.
|
I know I've ordered from you, and I don't recall any problems (at least
none that were critical, but like some other buyers here I have gotten lax about
holding some of them accountable for errors). It's not that I've ever
had a problem with big sellers in a general sense, but that sometimes they're
too big for my needs, or don't have what I need in stock. For instance,
when I built my LEGO Store, I needed five 1x1 round plates in 40 different colors.
I pulled much of it from my own spare parts, and added a large chunk to larger
orders. But I had several colors that I had to order as a one-lot order (often
from Europe). In those cases, minimum purchases would have likely prevented
me from being able to place orders (I actually have five spares in light-lime
because the only seller I could buy them from required x10 increments). And
you may not have a minimum order, but most business sellers do. Sometimes it's
a big store that works best for me, and other times it's a small one. And
that's not even getting into the whole New/Used issue. Variety of sellers
is just as important as variety of parts, since every buyer is looking for something
different every time they log on here.
|
Way to take the high road...come back and make it seem like there might have
just been a problem when you ordered from us...but you cannot remember.
Good job.
Scott
| |
| | I didn't even touch the inference that the drop in quality is solely due
to the "large sellers". There is no real evidence for that and despite the continual
claims here on the forum of "...OMG the huge stores are all terrible, everyone
knows that..."
|
I know that most of the errors I've run across tend to be buried in large
orders. Two issues that come to mind are that some sellers were talking about
dropping the packing list as an unnecessary expense, and some large stores employ
pickers to pull and ship orders (having outgrown the ability of one person to
keep up with the customers). I've found that I'm less likely to find
problems with orders that have packing slips that have been checked off by item
(just one more opportunity to catch the problem before it becomes a Problem),
and no matter how awesome a company is, new employees require training and take
time to learn the ropes, and the person who seemed like the best employee ever
when you hired them could easily just be a very personable but incompetent worker
who burns your reputation (something that's less likely to happen with a
one-person hobby store).
Also, a store that only sees one sale a month can be just the worst, but nobody
will really notice. One hundred such stores will hardly register. One really
huge store that moves tens of thousands of dollars worth of orders every month
can just drop off a bit in quality for a little while and it's going to be
talked about. Regular and major problems, and it's going to become a regular
conversation.
| | This all seems to me to built on some sort of weird assumption that small stores
"care more about Lego" or are "bigger fans" of Lego and those assumptions make
no sense at all. There may be just as many small sellers "in it for the money"...I
don't see how anyone would know that one way or the other.
|
I think the logic there is that someone who isn't really making any money
obviously wouldn't be in it for the money. It's never to say that all
big sellers are just about the money (I've personally seen Troy C. and his
brother display on more than one occasion, and there was a time when Troy had
one of the largest stores in the world), just that it's hard to imagine someone
doing this if it involves twice as much work and half the pay as flipping burgers
at McDonald's, unless they have a more personal interest in the brick.
| | Do you believe that a store that pays $800 a month to a site should have exactly
the same features that a store that pays $1 a month has? (and here on BL there
are many stores that don't even pay a penny)
|
Remember when eBay had a huge scandal because they were seen as protecting Power
Sellers who we're pulling tricks or simply screwing up orders, because they
generated large sums of money in seller fees? While there is an argument for
affording them greater rewards for being so large, there's just as compelling
an argument for greater oversight.
| | I have never said to get rid of the hobby sellers.
|
No, you just suggesting giving stores that might only generate a few dozen dollars
in annual sales a choice between paying $120 per year for the privilege of paying
money to give parts, or being practically invisible and inaccessible to prospective
buyers. When I look in the price guide, AS A BUYER, I expect and deserve to
see all of the options available to me, not just the ones that are profitable
enough to afford a listing fee.
| | I don't care how large a store is, but if they are shipping
10 business days after payment or shipping in a used pasta box, or snapping together
new parts when they are shipped, or whatever, they are bad for Bricklink and
should either be removed from the site or moved to a not so professional Craigslist
style area where buyers know what to expect.
|
And a listing fee will do exactly jack to fix all of that. If a big seller is
screwing up, a $10 listing fee is meaningless if they get to deduct it out of
their three-figure monthly fees. They probably won't even remember that
there is a listing fee after a year has gone by. But all the really small hobby
sellers that help boost the inventory and appeal of this site will evaporate,
leaving no way to replace large sellers when they shut down for good. With that,
the site will rapidly lose appeal.
| | Do you think it is fair that business sellers who must pay taxes have even footing
with people that don't even claim their sales on their taxes?
|
Stores that are large never have been on equal footing with small hobby stores.
By virtue of their inventory, they are guaranteed to see many more orders, and
often much larger ones. By virtue of their higher sales volume, they can replenish
inventory faster and better than hobby sellers.
| | Should stores with a great deal of negative feedback be featured in search results right along
with other stores that have sterling feedback?
|
That is entirely unrelated to the idea of monthly listing fees. Again, a large
store can shrug off a $120 nick in their annual income, and moreso if it's
deducted from their monthly fees. In fact, by driving out all the small hobby
sellers (good or bad), it will just funnel more business to any large stores
that don't have their act together.
|
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 9, 2015 06:57 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 107 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | Way to take the high road...come back and make it seem like there might have
just been a problem when you ordered from us...but you cannot remember.
|
Way to ignore the rest if the post.
Fine. I dug up all my old emails associated with the six orders I've placed
with you (all have been purged). After reading the list of parts I ordered,
the only problem that I can recall is that on the last order you sent the light-bley
6x16 plates that I ordered and not the 8x16 plates that I meant to order. Now,
unless you have established yourself as an expert in long-distance mind-reading,
I have to allow that it would be somewhat unreasonable to expect you to ship
what I really wanted instead of what I actually ordered...but it is entirely
reasonable to expect you not to duck behind that single point and ignore the
rest if my post, so I've left it intact here where you don't even have
to go find it:
| | | | | | I didn't even touch the inference that the drop in quality is solely due
to the "large sellers". There is no real evidence for that and despite the continual
claims here on the forum of "...OMG the huge stores are all terrible, everyone
knows that..."
|
I know that most of the errors I've run across tend to be buried in large
orders. Two issues that come to mind are that some sellers were talking about
dropping the packing list as an unnecessary expense, and some large stores employ
pickers to pull and ship orders (having outgrown the ability of one person to
keep up with the customers). I've found that I'm less likely to find
problems with orders that have packing slips that have been checked off by item
(just one more opportunity to catch the problem before it becomes a Problem),
and no matter how awesome a company is, new employees require training and take
time to learn the ropes, and the person who seemed like the best employee ever
when you hired them could easily just be a very personable but incompetent worker
who burns your reputation (something that's less likely to happen with a
one-person hobby store).
Also, a store that only sees one sale a month can be just the worst, but nobody
will really notice. One hundred such stores will hardly register. One really
huge store that moves tens of thousands of dollars worth of orders every month
can just drop off a bit in quality for a little while and it's going to be
talked about. Regular and major problems, and it's going to become a regular
conversation.
| | This all seems to me to built on some sort of weird assumption that small stores
"care more about Lego" or are "bigger fans" of Lego and those assumptions make
no sense at all. There may be just as many small sellers "in it for the money"...I
don't see how anyone would know that one way or the other.
|
I think the logic there is that someone who isn't really making any money
obviously wouldn't be in it for the money. It's never to say that all
big sellers are just about the money (I've personally seen Troy C. and his
brother display on more than one occasion, and there was a time when Troy had
one of the largest stores in the world), just that it's hard to imagine someone
doing this if it involves twice as much work and half the pay as flipping burgers
at McDonald's, unless they have a more personal interest in the brick.
| | Do you believe that a store that pays $800 a month to a site should have exactly
the same features that a store that pays $1 a month has? (and here on BL there
are many stores that don't even pay a penny)
|
Remember when eBay had a huge scandal because they were seen as protecting Power
Sellers who we're pulling tricks or simply screwing up orders, because they
generated large sums of money in seller fees? While there is an argument for
affording them greater rewards for being so large, there's just as compelling
an argument for greater oversight.
| | I have never said to get rid of the hobby sellers.
|
No, you just suggesting giving stores that might only generate a few dozen dollars
in annual sales a choice between paying $120 per year for the privilege of paying
money to give parts, or being practically invisible and inaccessible to prospective
buyers. When I look in the price guide, AS A BUYER, I expect and deserve to
see all of the options available to me, not just the ones that are profitable
enough to afford a listing fee.
| | I don't care how large a store is, but if they are shipping
10 business days after payment or shipping in a used pasta box, or snapping together
new parts when they are shipped, or whatever, they are bad for Bricklink and
should either be removed from the site or moved to a not so professional Craigslist
style area where buyers know what to expect.
|
And a listing fee will do exactly jack to fix all of that. If a big seller is
screwing up, a $10 listing fee is meaningless if they get to deduct it out of
their three-figure monthly fees. They probably won't even remember that
there is a listing fee after a year has gone by. But all the really small hobby
sellers that help boost the inventory and appeal of this site will evaporate,
leaving no way to replace large sellers when they shut down for good. With that,
the site will rapidly lose appeal.
| | Do you think it is fair that business sellers who must pay taxes have even footing
with people that don't even claim their sales on their taxes?
|
Stores that are large never have been on equal footing with small hobby stores.
By virtue of their inventory, they are guaranteed to see many more orders, and
often much larger ones. By virtue of their higher sales volume, they can replenish
inventory faster and better than hobby sellers.
| | Should stores with a great deal of negative feedback be featured in search results right along
with other stores that have sterling feedback?
|
That is entirely unrelated to the idea of monthly listing fees. Again, a large
store can shrug off a $120 nick in their annual income, and moreso if it's
deducted from their monthly fees. In fact, by driving out all the small hobby
sellers (good or bad), it will just funnel more business to any large stores
that don't have their act together.
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 9, 2015 04:56 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | In addition, there may be just as many small stores making the same mistakes.
BL's approach should penalize the bad actors no matter their size.
|
Agreed.
| | As I said in
a recent post about that issue, many of the large stores have contributed far
more to the BL site than many of the small stores, which seems to go against
the claims that large stores don't care.
|
What do you mean by contribute? Sales volume (and hence fees)? In that case,
these sellers also take more than small sellers, since by definition they take
a greater proportion of sales.
| | Do you believe that a store that pays $800 a month to a site should have exactly
the same features that a store that pays $1 a month has? (and here on BL there
are many stores that don't even pay a penny)
|
Maybe not. BL could invent more tools to help these sellers cope with their larger
orders. Or have ranked fee structures, so that if you are paying $500+ a month
(or whatever), then your fees above a certain threshold drop. This would of course
mean a likely increase at the lower end, which could drive smaller sellers away,
leading to a less diverse BL.
| | I have never said to get rid of the hobby sellers. I simply said that if there
are stores that are not willing to put forth a nominal amount to display their
commitment to selling on Bricklink and the rules set forth for sellers that they
should not be given access the same features as those that are willing to put
forward that commitment.
|
All stores commit to sell what they say they have available, and abide by the
site rules. The amount of fees they pay per month has no effect on that. $1 a
month fee sellers can have perfect commitment, $50 a month fee sellers can have
poor commitment.
| | It really has nothing to do with "driving out hobby sellers".
|
Why not turn it around? Make all buyers place orders of at least $50 a month
to show that they are committed to BL, or they have to pay a fee. Charging buyers
for not buying seems ridiculous but it is no real different to charging sellers
when they are nto selling.
| | I don't care how large a store is, but if they are shipping
10 business days after payment or shipping in a used pasta box, or snapping together
new parts when they are shipped, or whatever, they are bad for Bricklink and
should either be removed from the site or moved to a not so professional Craigslist
style area where buyers know what to expect.
|
I agree. Paying a minimum monthly fee has no influence on how quick they ship
or what packaging they use. However, collecting ratings from buyers on how quick
items are shipped will allow that to be monitored. Similarly quality of packaging
can be monitored, although I expect average postage costs to go up, if people
are marked down for recycling packaging.
| | Should stores
with a great deal of negative feedback be featured in search results right along
with other stores that have sterling feedback?
|
Maybe not. Although buyers can always decide not to purchase from low feedback
or poor feedback stores.
| | Charge a fee to make sure that the people selling here are here for the right
reasons. Put some skin into the game and make the site better for everyone.
|
What are the right reasons? For me, it is to sell lego parts and get them to
the buyers in a timely manner. Quantity doesn't come into it.
|
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | rattler117 | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 18:51 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | | | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
|
|
| |
May be the case, but the site is also full of businesses that have to compete
with people that have no profit motive, pay no taxes, etc... This a akin to
owning a McDonald's and having your landlord allow a small hamburger stand
to set up in the parking lot.
|
First off, I have really like what you have to say and you make really good points.
So thank you for your input, it is very valuable and I hope people listen.
The only thing I don't know I agree with is the statement above. Why would
someone sell anything without a profit motive? At some point, they are wanting
to make money. If I am a hobbyist, why would I even bother even listing anything
for sale if I didn't want to get money for it? I would just give it away.
If someone is selling on Bricklink in the US, and not reporting it on their tax
return in the US, they are committing tax fraud. Income on Bricklink is income
and is taxable. Larger sellers just have more oversight on taxes due to their
size. Both types of sellers are required to pay taxes. If your basis is an
item is less than what you are selling it for, you could get away not reporting
it, but I don't believe this is common.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 16:55 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
|
Thanks for taking time to post this. I will only reply to things that really
stand out to me.
| | Not necessarily replying to each of Lukas' individual points, but just a
few notes and ideas on these issues...
1.) This issue was discussed at length at the BL Roundtable in Seattle and it
is on BL's radar. The prevailing idea is that 4 levels of grading will be
used for used parts. 1 would equal something "like new" or thereabouts, while
4 would be "my dog ate it before I listed it"
|
Two problems.
1) In My Humble Opinion, absolutely worst idea possible.
2) This was not (at least I do not recall..) announced/shared with the ones who
were not at the round table. That is, 99+% of "us". So "we" could tell how bad
this idea this is.
* would be even more room for misinterpretation. Current new/used/complete/incomplete
rules are really simple ant pretty clear. "If the parts do show excessive
wear, discoloration, excessive scratches, other marks,etc. this should be noted
in the *Comments* field. Sounds very simple. Apparently it isnt. Because
it is still a "crapshoot" when ordering parts. Problems is sellers not giving
a damn about having accurate listings. By making them to categorize used
parts into more than one category.. would only make the problem that many times
worse. Good sellers will be doing it, while "I dont give a damn" sellers will
continue doing exactly that.
* Okay lets say there is no room left for misinterpretation. You yourself (Scott)
admit that you are not selling used parts. Just as, I assume, the ones who also
like this idea.
If you have some used parts anywhere, come up with ratings and try to sort them
into 4 strict categories.
Are you sure that you will sort all the parts 100% exactly the same, if you do
it again after a week? If not, chances are that your buyers will also not agree
with you all the time. Or most of the time, for that matter. Add language barriers/eyesight/lighting
conditions/individual interpretation. It's getting ugly real fast isn't
it? 
| | 2.) These types of statements like "Bricklink is going down" or "their reputation
is bad" are nothing without any real proof and lots of it. The fact that a few
people come to the forum here (or any other forum) and complain is natural for
a site with the volume that BL has. (It has already been established here that
a minute percentage of users actually post here) If this is someone's personal
opinion, it should be noted as such. Otherwise, come forward with the hundreds
of unique complaint posts posted over a very short, recent period of time. Even
in the case of this seller, his or her x number of transactions are likely a
proverbial drop in the bucket.
The overwhelming majority of BL buyers and sellers are honest people and it
is unfair to lump "Bricklink" in with a few of these yahoos.
Bricklink is growing fast in spite of some of these issues, so it must not be
hurting them that much.
3.) Many of these issues can be taken care of by some of the basic concepts
that Scooter talked about in his post. I would like to add another to the pile.
If BL charged a minimum monthly charge, much of these people would go
away.
It could be something simple and small like $10, which is like prepaying the
first $10 of fees each month.
Putting up little roadblocks like this have been beneficial for many other sites.
Many of the people that somehow cannot manage to get parts in the mail for 2-3
weeks probably cannot pull things together and make a $10 monthly payment! I
know that won't work for those of your that sell $2 in parts a month, but
I think that it will make the site much stronger and safer. BL could always
spin off a part of the site for no fee hobby stores that can sell something like
$50 a month with no fees.
4.) Some ideas have been tossed around about resolved NSS claims and such. Longtime
forum readers remember "Brri*******", who ripped people off for a long time,
across at least two accounts and they got around the consequences by simply refunding
all of the NSS claims that were filed. I am all for giving people a chance,
but at some point, 10 or 20 resolved NSS claims show that something is
not working. As I have said here before, we have shipped nearly 4.5 million
parts in the last 3+ years here on BL and we have had exactly two NSS claims
filed against us. In both cases, the shipments showed as delivered and in both
cases the buyers "found" the shipment once we passed that information on to them.
This belief that big stores just get NSS claims left and right is just plain
silly.
4b.) This also goes for any other site manipulation. Using the "pay too much
on my bill so I am in the Top 60" trick should be treated just like any other
sort of dishonesty. I am sure that there are hundreds of other similar issues
that speak to the honesty level of a store.
5.) Buyers...while you may care about your feedback and want it to be 100%, it
really doesn't matter. As long as it is not below zero, you will be fine.
(...and if someone really says they won't sell to you because you have 50
positives and 1 negative, do you really want to buy from them?)
Suck it up and leave neutrals or negatives when they are deserved.
|
Completely agree. I would have "sucked it up" quite a few times if I was just
a buyer, but not a seller at the same time as well.
| | Now, this is not to say that stores should not be given a chance to make things
right, but if they tell you take a jump when you ask for some sort of resolution,
then that deserves non-positive feedback. This will provide something actionable
for BL to use to get these people off of Bricklink. I have said it many, many
times here...
there is no reason for any store to have 150+ neutrals and 75+ negatives.
I don't care how big they are, I don't care how busy they are, I don't
care how cheap they sell parts/sets, I don't care how big or small they are,
I don't care what other sorts of useless excuses they come up with. These
stores are a cancer on BL and need to go away. That goes for the "I never leave
positives and only use feedback to retaliate" crowd as well.
|
Yes. But how do we do that?
| | 6.) Featured/Highlighted/etc... stores should be reserved for the cream of the
BL crop. If you get a couple negatives in a month, that should disqualify the
store from being on any of the lists. New buyers may feel like those stores
have been vetted, but if they are selling used as new, not shipping in a timely
fashion, etc... they should not appear on those lists.
|
Hehe.. well I have done it once and put myself into the "top 50" highlighted
list. Was also in the "honored" list for some time. Just as it was told to me,
there were *no* effect on sales.
I imagine perhaps there is some effect if you are in the "Featured" list. But
obviously I can not know for sure
| | Whew...that was a lot!
Scott
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 18:35 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
|
Thanks for taking time to post this. I will only reply to things that really
stand out to me.
| | Not necessarily replying to each of Lukas' individual points, but just a
few notes and ideas on these issues...
1.) This issue was discussed at length at the BL Roundtable in Seattle and it
is on BL's radar. The prevailing idea is that 4 levels of grading will be
used for used parts. 1 would equal something "like new" or thereabouts, while
4 would be "my dog ate it before I listed it"
|
Two problems.
1) In My Humble Opinion, absolutely worst idea possible.
2) This was not (at least I do not recall..) announced/shared with the ones who
were not at the round table. That is, 99+% of "us". So "we" could tell how bad
this idea this is.
|
I did not chime in, as I do not buy or use parts that are not new, but from what
we were told, this was something that was a common concern amongst buyers that
BL staff talked to over time, not just at the roundtable. I do know that a common
source of discussion here in the forum is what constitutes "too used", so this
is something on the radar of some number of buyers. I have no doubts that something
will change in this area. (I'll leave it up to others to debate the minute
details until they are blue in the face)
| |
* would be even more room for misinterpretation. Current new/used/complete/incomplete
rules are really simple ant pretty clear. "If the parts do show excessive
wear, discoloration, excessive scratches, other marks,etc. this should be noted
in the *Comments* field. Sounds very simple. Apparently it isnt. Because
it is still a "crapshoot" when ordering parts. Problems is sellers not giving
a damn about having accurate listings. By making them to categorize used
parts into more than one category.. would only make the problem that many times
worse. Good sellers will be doing it, while "I dont give a damn" sellers will
continue doing exactly that.
|
I'll tell you something that I often told my college students..."you have
to draw the line somewhere" and you need to set rules for those lines and follow
them. Sure it seemed "unfair" when a student earned a 92.4% and just missed
the 92.5% for an A, but that same policy stops faculty from deciding that 92.6%
is an A- "this time". We can come up with all sorts of philosophical discussions
surrounding the differences between 92.4% and 92.6%, but the reality is that
the great majority of the scores would instead fall in the middle of the ranges.
Same goes for used parts. If a "3" is between 26%-50% in quality, will there
be 50%s that get bumped up to 51% and called a two? Probably, but the great
majority of the grading will likely be somewhere in the middle. As I said above,
there will always be some number of people who will raise heck over a 50 sold
to them as a 51, but the great majority of people will likely find benefit in
the general idea behind more specific grading standards (whatever they end up
being).
| | * Okay lets say there is no room left for misinterpretation. You yourself (Scott)
admit that you are not selling used parts. Just as, I assume, the ones who also
like this idea.
|
I was only responding that it was discussed. I have no skin in that game.
| |
If you have some used parts anywhere, come up with ratings and try to sort them
into 4 strict categories.
Are you sure that you will sort all the parts 100% exactly the same, if you do
it again after a week? If not, chances are that your buyers will also not agree
with you all the time. Or most of the time, for that matter. Add language barriers/eyesight/lighting
conditions/individual interpretation. It's getting ugly real fast isn't
it?
|
Humans are involved so no system will be perfect. If you are waiting for perfect
system, you are going to be waiting for a long time.
| |
| | 2.) These types of statements like "Bricklink is going down" or "their reputation
is bad" are nothing without any real proof and lots of it. The fact that a few
people come to the forum here (or any other forum) and complain is natural for
a site with the volume that BL has. (It has already been established here that
a minute percentage of users actually post here) If this is someone's personal
opinion, it should be noted as such. Otherwise, come forward with the hundreds
of unique complaint posts posted over a very short, recent period of time. Even
in the case of this seller, his or her x number of transactions are likely a
proverbial drop in the bucket.
The overwhelming majority of BL buyers and sellers are honest people and it
is unfair to lump "Bricklink" in with a few of these yahoos.
Bricklink is growing fast in spite of some of these issues, so it must not be
hurting them that much.
3.) Many of these issues can be taken care of by some of the basic concepts
that Scooter talked about in his post. I would like to add another to the pile.
If BL charged a minimum monthly charge, much of these people would go
away.
It could be something simple and small like $10, which is like prepaying the
first $10 of fees each month.
Putting up little roadblocks like this have been beneficial for many other sites.
Many of the people that somehow cannot manage to get parts in the mail for 2-3
weeks probably cannot pull things together and make a $10 monthly payment! I
know that won't work for those of your that sell $2 in parts a month, but
I think that it will make the site much stronger and safer. BL could always
spin off a part of the site for no fee hobby stores that can sell something like
$50 a month with no fees.
4.) Some ideas have been tossed around about resolved NSS claims and such. Longtime
forum readers remember "Brri*******", who ripped people off for a long time,
across at least two accounts and they got around the consequences by simply refunding
all of the NSS claims that were filed. I am all for giving people a chance,
but at some point, 10 or 20 resolved NSS claims show that something is
not working. As I have said here before, we have shipped nearly 4.5 million
parts in the last 3+ years here on BL and we have had exactly two NSS claims
filed against us. In both cases, the shipments showed as delivered and in both
cases the buyers "found" the shipment once we passed that information on to them.
This belief that big stores just get NSS claims left and right is just plain
silly.
4b.) This also goes for any other site manipulation. Using the "pay too much
on my bill so I am in the Top 60" trick should be treated just like any other
sort of dishonesty. I am sure that there are hundreds of other similar issues
that speak to the honesty level of a store.
5.) Buyers...while you may care about your feedback and want it to be 100%, it
really doesn't matter. As long as it is not below zero, you will be fine.
(...and if someone really says they won't sell to you because you have 50
positives and 1 negative, do you really want to buy from them?)
Suck it up and leave neutrals or negatives when they are deserved.
|
Completely agree. I would have "sucked it up" quite a few times if I was just
a buyer, but not a seller at the same time as well.
| | Now, this is not to say that stores should not be given a chance to make things
right, but if they tell you take a jump when you ask for some sort of resolution,
then that deserves non-positive feedback. This will provide something actionable
for BL to use to get these people off of Bricklink. I have said it many, many
times here...
there is no reason for any store to have 150+ neutrals and 75+ negatives.
I don't care how big they are, I don't care how busy they are, I don't
care how cheap they sell parts/sets, I don't care how big or small they are,
I don't care what other sorts of useless excuses they come up with. These
stores are a cancer on BL and need to go away. That goes for the "I never leave
positives and only use feedback to retaliate" crowd as well.
|
Yes. But how do we do that?
|
No idea. Publish the percentage of negative feedback that was left after
feedback had been left for them?
Like I said above, if a seller has amassed 50 negatives, the writing should be
on the wall at that point. I'm not necessarily saying they have to go away
in every case, but someone at BL should be taking proactive steps to solve the
problems. Enough stores have shown that large, busy stores can go years without
getting negatives or getting a very small number of negatives, that the "I'm
a big, busy store and that is why I have a lot of negatives" excuse just doesn't
fly. As I mentioned somewhere else (not sure if it was in this thread), we at
QCB have shipped nearly 4.5 million parts since our last negative and
I am sure that several other stores boast records far more impressive than that.
Given that, there is no real reason a store shipping 200,000 parts a year should
just be given a pass on some number of negatives.
| |
| | 6.) Featured/Highlighted/etc... stores should be reserved for the cream of the
BL crop. If you get a couple negatives in a month, that should disqualify the
store from being on any of the lists. New buyers may feel like those stores
have been vetted, but if they are selling used as new, not shipping in a timely
fashion, etc... they should not appear on those lists.
|
Hehe.. well I have done it once and put myself into the "top 50" highlighted
list. Was also in the "honored" list for some time. Just as it was told to me,
there were *no* effect on sales.
I imagine perhaps there is some effect if you are in the "Featured" list. But
obviously I can not know for sure
|
I think my suggestion goes more towards keeping the site honest and rewarding
those that generate the largest amount of revenue for BL. If they cannot do
that, it opens up the door for someone else to do it.
Scott
| | | | Whew...that was a lot!
Scott
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 19:08 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
|
Thanks for taking time to post this. I will only reply to things that really
stand out to me.
| | Not necessarily replying to each of Lukas' individual points, but just a
few notes and ideas on these issues...
1.) This issue was discussed at length at the BL Roundtable in Seattle and it
is on BL's radar. The prevailing idea is that 4 levels of grading will be
used for used parts. 1 would equal something "like new" or thereabouts, while
4 would be "my dog ate it before I listed it"
|
Two problems.
1) In My Humble Opinion, absolutely worst idea possible.
2) This was not (at least I do not recall..) announced/shared with the ones who
were not at the round table. That is, 99+% of "us". So "we" could tell how bad
this idea this is.
|
I did not chime in, as I do not buy or use parts that are not new, but from what
we were told, this was something that was a common concern amongst buyers that
BL staff talked to over time, not just at the roundtable. I do know that a common
source of discussion here in the forum is what constitutes "too used", so this
is something on the radar of some number of buyers. I have no doubts that something
will change in this area. (I'll leave it up to others to debate the minute
details until they are blue in the face)
| |
* would be even more room for misinterpretation. Current new/used/complete/incomplete
rules are really simple ant pretty clear. "If the parts do show excessive
wear, discoloration, excessive scratches, other marks,etc. this should be noted
in the *Comments* field. Sounds very simple. Apparently it isnt. Because
it is still a "crapshoot" when ordering parts. Problems is sellers not giving
a damn about having accurate listings. By making them to categorize used
parts into more than one category.. would only make the problem that many times
worse. Good sellers will be doing it, while "I dont give a damn" sellers will
continue doing exactly that.
|
I'll tell you something that I often told my college students..."you have
to draw the line somewhere" and you need to set rules for those lines and follow
them. Sure it seemed "unfair" when a student earned a 92.4% and just missed
the 92.5% for an A, but that same policy stops faculty from deciding that 92.6%
is an A- "this time". We can come up with all sorts of philosophical discussions
surrounding the differences between 92.4% and 92.6%, but the reality is that
the great majority of the scores would instead fall in the middle of the ranges.
Same goes for used parts. If a "3" is between 26%-50% in quality, will there
be 50%s that get bumped up to 51% and called a two? Probably, but the great
majority of the grading will likely be somewhere in the middle. As I said above,
there will always be some number of people who will raise heck over a 50 sold
to them as a 51, but the great majority of people will likely find benefit in
the general idea behind more specific grading standards (whatever they end up
being).
| | * Okay lets say there is no room left for misinterpretation. You yourself (Scott)
admit that you are not selling used parts. Just as, I assume, the ones who also
like this idea.
|
I was only responding that it was discussed. I have no skin in that game.
| |
If you have some used parts anywhere, come up with ratings and try to sort them
into 4 strict categories.
Are you sure that you will sort all the parts 100% exactly the same, if you do
it again after a week? If not, chances are that your buyers will also not agree
with you all the time. Or most of the time, for that matter. Add language barriers/eyesight/lighting
conditions/individual interpretation. It's getting ugly real fast isn't
it?
|
Humans are involved so no system will be perfect. If you are waiting for perfect
system, you are going to be waiting for a long time.
|
Agreed. To keep this short - 4 categories is an overkill. Discussing how many
categories there should be is probably pointless between the two of us.
I just hope that buyers AND sellers of used parts will be asked for input across
whole BL *before* any changes are implemented in this area. We have already seen
what happends when someone is "fixing" something they have no clue about to begin
with.
| | | |
| | 2.) These types of statements like "Bricklink is going down" or "their reputation
is bad" are nothing without any real proof and lots of it. The fact that a few
people come to the forum here (or any other forum) and complain is natural for
a site with the volume that BL has. (It has already been established here that
a minute percentage of users actually post here) If this is someone's personal
opinion, it should be noted as such. Otherwise, come forward with the hundreds
of unique complaint posts posted over a very short, recent period of time. Even
in the case of this seller, his or her x number of transactions are likely a
proverbial drop in the bucket.
The overwhelming majority of BL buyers and sellers are honest people and it
is unfair to lump "Bricklink" in with a few of these yahoos.
Bricklink is growing fast in spite of some of these issues, so it must not be
hurting them that much.
3.) Many of these issues can be taken care of by some of the basic concepts
that Scooter talked about in his post. I would like to add another to the pile.
If BL charged a minimum monthly charge, much of these people would go
away.
It could be something simple and small like $10, which is like prepaying the
first $10 of fees each month.
Putting up little roadblocks like this have been beneficial for many other sites.
Many of the people that somehow cannot manage to get parts in the mail for 2-3
weeks probably cannot pull things together and make a $10 monthly payment! I
know that won't work for those of your that sell $2 in parts a month, but
I think that it will make the site much stronger and safer. BL could always
spin off a part of the site for no fee hobby stores that can sell something like
$50 a month with no fees.
4.) Some ideas have been tossed around about resolved NSS claims and such. Longtime
forum readers remember "Brri*******", who ripped people off for a long time,
across at least two accounts and they got around the consequences by simply refunding
all of the NSS claims that were filed. I am all for giving people a chance,
but at some point, 10 or 20 resolved NSS claims show that something is
not working. As I have said here before, we have shipped nearly 4.5 million
parts in the last 3+ years here on BL and we have had exactly two NSS claims
filed against us. In both cases, the shipments showed as delivered and in both
cases the buyers "found" the shipment once we passed that information on to them.
This belief that big stores just get NSS claims left and right is just plain
silly.
4b.) This also goes for any other site manipulation. Using the "pay too much
on my bill so I am in the Top 60" trick should be treated just like any other
sort of dishonesty. I am sure that there are hundreds of other similar issues
that speak to the honesty level of a store.
5.) Buyers...while you may care about your feedback and want it to be 100%, it
really doesn't matter. As long as it is not below zero, you will be fine.
(...and if someone really says they won't sell to you because you have 50
positives and 1 negative, do you really want to buy from them?)
Suck it up and leave neutrals or negatives when they are deserved.
|
Completely agree. I would have "sucked it up" quite a few times if I was just
a buyer, but not a seller at the same time as well.
| | Now, this is not to say that stores should not be given a chance to make things
right, but if they tell you take a jump when you ask for some sort of resolution,
then that deserves non-positive feedback. This will provide something actionable
for BL to use to get these people off of Bricklink. I have said it many, many
times here...
there is no reason for any store to have 150+ neutrals and 75+ negatives.
I don't care how big they are, I don't care how busy they are, I don't
care how cheap they sell parts/sets, I don't care how big or small they are,
I don't care what other sorts of useless excuses they come up with. These
stores are a cancer on BL and need to go away. That goes for the "I never leave
positives and only use feedback to retaliate" crowd as well.
|
Yes. But how do we do that?
|
No idea. Publish the percentage of negative feedback that was left after
feedback had been left for them?
Like I said above, if a seller has amassed 50 negatives, the writing should be
on the wall at that point. I'm not necessarily saying they have to go away
in every case, but someone at BL should be taking proactive steps to solve the
problems. Enough stores have shown that large, busy stores can go years without
getting negatives or getting a very small number of negatives, that the "I'm
a big, busy store and that is why I have a lot of negatives" excuse just doesn't
fly. As I mentioned somewhere else (not sure if it was in this thread), we at
QCB have shipped nearly 4.5 million parts since our last negative and
I am sure that several other stores boast records far more impressive than that.
Given that, there is no real reason a store shipping 200,000 parts a year should
just be given a pass on some number of negatives.
| |
| | 6.) Featured/Highlighted/etc... stores should be reserved for the cream of the
BL crop. If you get a couple negatives in a month, that should disqualify the
store from being on any of the lists. New buyers may feel like those stores
have been vetted, but if they are selling used as new, not shipping in a timely
fashion, etc... they should not appear on those lists.
|
Hehe.. well I have done it once and put myself into the "top 50" highlighted
list. Was also in the "honored" list for some time. Just as it was told to me,
there were *no* effect on sales.
I imagine perhaps there is some effect if you are in the "Featured" list. But
obviously I can not know for sure
|
I think my suggestion goes more towards keeping the site honest and rewarding
those that generate the largest amount of revenue for BL. If they cannot do
that, it opens up the door for someone else to do it.
Scott
|
I like the general line of your thoughts. Now it seems that some (large) sellers
just really do not care about LEGO, as long as they can keep cramming the boxes
with LEGO and pushing them out the door.
But that does not go to say that small hobby sellers should be allowed to skip
under the radar. Ultimately, BL must focus that every single purchase would go
as smoothly as it can go, be it small/big buyer purchasing from small/big seller.
In many cases it does not take much for someone to get "into" LEGO (turning into
a good customer for BL sellers, that is!) Just as it does not take much for that
potential "someone" to get an overall bad image of BL and never look back, if
the first purchases end up being from bad sellers, big or small.
From business perspective it may look to be a waste of resources in dealing with
small-time sellers/buyers. But even if they amount to 5-10%, they can do just
as much damage as big ones.
| | | | | | Whew...that was a lot!
Scott
|
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Biodreamer | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 06:25 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
I think two things that would improve this.
1) add a step between recieved and complete order where the buyer can adjust
order content. ie validate the content. The webpage should have a tool for this,
better then the temporary checkbox we have today. This not only to tell the seller
but so I can keep a record and export to other sites the right content of the
order.
This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
We then would have a Quality assement tool inside the regular buy sell system.
2) Used part should have diffrent quality level, (which should be displayed in
the priceguide) but before that is implement a Guideline for those with good
description and pictures should be added to the site. and any NEW seller (and
old when it's added) who list used parts should be forced to open and click
through it atleast once, it should also be easy to find and access when in doubt.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 13:21 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| As long as buyers can opt to not have to do that. Sometimes I order 1000 parts
from my favourite sellers, I don't bitter to check them all. I trust them.
If they short me by a part or two, I'm not bothered enough to waste my time
checking.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Biodreamer | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 14:17 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | As long as buyers can opt to not have to do that. Sometimes I order 1000 parts
from my favourite sellers, I don't bitter to check them all. I trust them.
If they short me by a part or two, I'm not bothered enough to waste my time
checking.
|
well then just press the confirm button, the order should be okay by default.
but you would also loose the ability to complain later.
I have order 5000 pieces at once before and I did count every single one, but
that's me. I am glad I Did because it was over a hundred missing.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 14:33 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Earlier tonight I found a seller raking up feedback like you see in the second
picture below. The top feedback is retaliatory FB that he left for his buyer.
Had a thought to go here and ask what others think and ask BL if anything is
going to be done about it (in general). The seller is not listing items according
to "Used parts" rules
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102&q=used
and he could care less
I guess I can also mention that the reason I checked that seller is because he
had a part that I need in a color that it does not exist, and he is the only
one who has it. I am now sure that he doesn't.
Anyways. Decided against it because it has been discussed a hundred times, and
for a hundred times in a row BL decided that nothing will be done about it.
But then YouTube read my mind and suggested me a video. It's a fresh video
I have not seen it before!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfstjgilDmE
SUGGESTION.
1) Dear BrickLink - please listen to what buyers have to say about bad sellers
2) Realize that BrickLink's reputation is going down
3) Create a system (OTHER than feedback*) + strategy where bad sellers
are given a chance to improve AND understand that they will be kicked
out of BL for good if they dont
4) Before doing it, ask BL community on how it could be done, and use the collective
knowledge and experience of the ones who are willing to share it with you
*Feedback is obviously not working. Please see the video why. Feedback will not
eliminate the problem itself.
You know what's absolutely hilarious? The reason I opened YouTube in the
first place is to watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJlN9jdQFSc
|
I think two things that would improve this.
1) add a step between recieved and complete order where the buyer can adjust
order content. ie validate the content. The webpage should have a tool for this,
better then the temporary checkbox we have today. This not only to tell the seller
but so I can keep a record and export to other sites the right content of the
order.
This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
| |
We then would have a Quality assement tool inside the regular buy sell system.
2) Used part should have diffrent quality level, (which should be displayed in
the priceguide) but before that is implement a Guideline for those with good
description and pictures should be added to the site. and any NEW seller (and
old when it's added) who list used parts should be forced to open and click
through it atleast once, it should also be easy to find and access when in doubt.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | PurpleDave | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 15:01 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Biodreamer | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 15:41 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
Well of course the system need to have ways for both side to fix things, such
as a incorrect report of whatever reason. I haven't ironed out all the specification
for the system but a simple brainstorm could easiliy cover almost if not all
cases.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | therobo | | Posted: | Feb 8, 2015 19:12 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
What about an anonymous rating system like eBay has?
But with more site specific criteria for example:
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service
- Communication
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 16:16 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
What about an anonymous rating system like eBay has?
But with more site specific criteria for example:
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service
- Communication
|
Sorry I got a bit sick right after posting this suggestion thread. Missed out
on some interesting discussions.
The idea behind the suggestion is to create a system where sellers are forced/incentivized
to provide the best service possible, OR ELSE. Be shut down if they are breaking
rules repeatedly, or at least be forced to pay much higher fees. So they finally
learn.
The suggestion is not to put any kind of stoppers/filters/whatever, based on
how big/small the sellers is. It will do *nothing* to address the issue - sellers
operating not according to BL rules, and/or just providing plain BAD service
in general.
Selling used parts as new, selling really bad/damaged/etc parts, selling incomplete
sets as complete, screwing buyers over with NOT shipping what was ordered and
refunding cents/shop credit which essentially does nothing for the buyer to help
address "the ordered part is missing" problem etc etc.
therobo idea is great, I actually had almost exact same one during my "time out"
The only difference would be to merge the Service/Communication and add Fees,
because that seems to be one of *the* issues.
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service/Communication
- Fees
Perhaps we could also merge this with some other ideas in this thread. Link the
ratings to the fees that seller has to pay.
4.5-5 stars - standard 3%
4.2-4.4 - 5%
4.0-4.2 - make it *really* hurt at 15%, so it's time to either be shutdown
if you dont pay up, or pay up and keep paying up if that's how you roll.
Or, perhaps change your attitude for a change and improve your service for once.
Keep working on the ratios until *this works* is achieved.
This might need a lot of tweaking and adjusting to higher/smaller volume sellers.
Also some kind of protection so a competing store wont place 20 orders, give
20 "1 star" ratings in a row and force the competing seller into higher % tier.
Also a way for a seller to improve, and not be forever haunted by past mistakes.
The overall rating shown to buyers would be as it is, but the fee penalty would
only be based on last 10% / last 100/500 rating or whatever.
Just general ideas. Everything can be nit-picked apart if you really want to,
but everything can also be built and improved bit by bit until it is as perfect
as it can be.
Just there must be a will to do it
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Biodreamer | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 16:34 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
What about an anonymous rating system like eBay has?
But with more site specific criteria for example:
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service
- Communication
|
Sorry I got a bit sick right after posting this suggestion thread. Missed out
on some interesting discussions.
The idea behind the suggestion is to create a system where sellers are forced/incentivized
to provide the best service possible, OR ELSE. Be shut down if they are breaking
rules repeatedly, or at least be forced to pay much higher fees. So they finally
learn.
The suggestion is not to put any kind of stoppers/filters/whatever, based on
how big/small the sellers is. It will do *nothing* to address the issue - sellers
operating not according to BL rules, and/or just providing plain BAD service
in general.
Selling used parts as new, selling really bad/damaged/etc parts, selling incomplete
sets as complete, screwing buyers over with NOT shipping what was ordered and
refunding cents/shop credit which essentially does nothing for the buyer to help
address "the ordered part is missing" problem etc etc.
therobo idea is great, I actually had almost exact same one during my "time out"
The only difference would be to merge the Service/Communication and add Fees,
because that seems to be one of *the* issues.
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service/Communication
- Fees
Perhaps we could also merge this with some other ideas in this thread. Link the
ratings to the fees that seller has to pay.
4.5-5 stars - standard 3%
4.2-4.4 - 5%
4.0-4.2 - make it *really* hurt at 15%, so it's time to either be shutdown
if you dont pay up, or pay up and keep paying up if that's how you roll.
Or, perhaps change your attitude for a change and improve your service for once.
Keep working on the ratios until *this works* is achieved.
This might need a lot of tweaking and adjusting to higher/smaller volume sellers.
Also some kind of protection so a competing store wont place 20 orders, give
20 "1 star" ratings in a row and force the competing seller into higher % tier.
Also a way for a seller to improve, and not be forever haunted by past mistakes.
The overall rating shown to buyers would be as it is, but the fee penalty would
only be based on last 10% / last 100/500 rating or whatever.
Just general ideas. Everything can be nit-picked apart if you really want to,
but everything can also be built and improved bit by bit until it is as perfect
as it can be.
Just there must be a will to do it
|
Fees can only be taken for the trade as such, anything else is most likely illegal.
So it would be per order, rating and value, not by any track record. However
I would only see this even increasing the stoplisting of honest buyers, because
the seller are afraid of losing money on a deal.
it's better to give out carrots then weilding a whip, when you try to change
a behaviour.
such as more exposure for the good stores and less for the bad. ie harder for
buyer to find their way to the shady stores.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 16:58 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
What about an anonymous rating system like eBay has?
But with more site specific criteria for example:
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service
- Communication
|
Sorry I got a bit sick right after posting this suggestion thread. Missed out
on some interesting discussions.
The idea behind the suggestion is to create a system where sellers are forced/incentivized
to provide the best service possible, OR ELSE. Be shut down if they are breaking
rules repeatedly, or at least be forced to pay much higher fees. So they finally
learn.
The suggestion is not to put any kind of stoppers/filters/whatever, based on
how big/small the sellers is. It will do *nothing* to address the issue - sellers
operating not according to BL rules, and/or just providing plain BAD service
in general.
Selling used parts as new, selling really bad/damaged/etc parts, selling incomplete
sets as complete, screwing buyers over with NOT shipping what was ordered and
refunding cents/shop credit which essentially does nothing for the buyer to help
address "the ordered part is missing" problem etc etc.
therobo idea is great, I actually had almost exact same one during my "time out"
The only difference would be to merge the Service/Communication and add Fees,
because that seems to be one of *the* issues.
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service/Communication
- Fees
Perhaps we could also merge this with some other ideas in this thread. Link the
ratings to the fees that seller has to pay.
4.5-5 stars - standard 3%
4.2-4.4 - 5%
4.0-4.2 - make it *really* hurt at 15%, so it's time to either be shutdown
if you dont pay up, or pay up and keep paying up if that's how you roll.
Or, perhaps change your attitude for a change and improve your service for once.
Keep working on the ratios until *this works* is achieved.
This might need a lot of tweaking and adjusting to higher/smaller volume sellers.
Also some kind of protection so a competing store wont place 20 orders, give
20 "1 star" ratings in a row and force the competing seller into higher % tier.
Also a way for a seller to improve, and not be forever haunted by past mistakes.
The overall rating shown to buyers would be as it is, but the fee penalty would
only be based on last 10% / last 100/500 rating or whatever.
Just general ideas. Everything can be nit-picked apart if you really want to,
but everything can also be built and improved bit by bit until it is as perfect
as it can be.
Just there must be a will to do it
|
Fees can only be taken for the trade as such, anything else is most likely illegal.
So it would be per order, rating and value, not by any track record. However
I would only see this even increasing the stoplisting of honest buyers, because
the seller are afraid of losing money on a deal.
|
For this reason, star ratings should be anonymous.
| | it's better to give out carrots then weilding a whip, when you try to change
a behaviour.
such as more exposure for the good stores and less for the bad. ie harder for
buyer to find their way to the shady stores.
|
What about.. carrot on a whip? Do good and get the carrot.. or else?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 18:39 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
What about an anonymous rating system like eBay has?
But with more site specific criteria for example:
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service
- Communication
|
Sorry I got a bit sick right after posting this suggestion thread. Missed out
on some interesting discussions.
The idea behind the suggestion is to create a system where sellers are forced/incentivized
to provide the best service possible, OR ELSE. Be shut down if they are breaking
rules repeatedly, or at least be forced to pay much higher fees. So they finally
learn.
The suggestion is not to put any kind of stoppers/filters/whatever, based on
how big/small the sellers is. It will do *nothing* to address the issue - sellers
operating not according to BL rules, and/or just providing plain BAD service
in general.
Selling used parts as new, selling really bad/damaged/etc parts, selling incomplete
sets as complete, screwing buyers over with NOT shipping what was ordered and
refunding cents/shop credit which essentially does nothing for the buyer to help
address "the ordered part is missing" problem etc etc.
therobo idea is great, I actually had almost exact same one during my "time out"
The only difference would be to merge the Service/Communication and add Fees,
because that seems to be one of *the* issues.
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service/Communication
- Fees
Perhaps we could also merge this with some other ideas in this thread. Link the
ratings to the fees that seller has to pay.
4.5-5 stars - standard 3%
4.2-4.4 - 5%
4.0-4.2 - make it *really* hurt at 15%, so it's time to either be shutdown
if you dont pay up, or pay up and keep paying up if that's how you roll.
Or, perhaps change your attitude for a change and improve your service for once.
Keep working on the ratios until *this works* is achieved.
This might need a lot of tweaking and adjusting to higher/smaller volume sellers.
Also some kind of protection so a competing store wont place 20 orders, give
20 "1 star" ratings in a row and force the competing seller into higher % tier.
Also a way for a seller to improve, and not be forever haunted by past mistakes.
The overall rating shown to buyers would be as it is, but the fee penalty would
only be based on last 10% / last 100/500 rating or whatever.
Just general ideas. Everything can be nit-picked apart if you really want to,
but everything can also be built and improved bit by bit until it is as perfect
as it can be.
Just there must be a will to do it
|
I think that incentives go a lot farther than penalties. Many of the worst sellers
have shown that they can get around the odd penalty that is handed out around
here. BL is faced with the task of finding a middle ground that maintains the
big stores and and keeps the hobby stores happy. I do not envy them, as they
are bound to make some people upset no matter what they do.
Had more typed, but I am going to stop there.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Feb 18, 2015 19:11 | | Subject: | Re: Time to address seller quality issues | | Viewed: | 69 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, PurpleDave writes:
| | In Suggestions, therobo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Biodreamer writes:
| | This report should if it is alterered be sent to the seller with a button click.
The system will then know if the seller is missing out in orders and have to
fix them. it also got a chance to remove item that was incorrect listed from
the priceguide. The seller can then on his side fill in the way he resolved the
issue with the customer. refund, sent pieces etc.
|
You seem to imply that buyers are always correct and never make mistakes when
checking their incoming orders.
I have had at least a douzand buyers who complained about missing parts and after
some back and forth e-mails they found out they miscounted or found them still
in the package, on the floor, in the waste bin etc.
|
If it turns out that it's buyer error, then the seller would be able to note
that they "fixed" it by educating the buyer on why the shipment was correct.
And in cases like that, it should be possible to remove any negative marks attached
to that order.
|
What about an anonymous rating system like eBay has?
But with more site specific criteria for example:
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service
- Communication
|
Sorry I got a bit sick right after posting this suggestion thread. Missed out
on some interesting discussions.
The idea behind the suggestion is to create a system where sellers are forced/incentivized
to provide the best service possible, OR ELSE. Be shut down if they are breaking
rules repeatedly, or at least be forced to pay much higher fees. So they finally
learn.
The suggestion is not to put any kind of stoppers/filters/whatever, based on
how big/small the sellers is. It will do *nothing* to address the issue - sellers
operating not according to BL rules, and/or just providing plain BAD service
in general.
Selling used parts as new, selling really bad/damaged/etc parts, selling incomplete
sets as complete, screwing buyers over with NOT shipping what was ordered and
refunding cents/shop credit which essentially does nothing for the buyer to help
address "the ordered part is missing" problem etc etc.
therobo idea is great, I actually had almost exact same one during my "time out"
The only difference would be to merge the Service/Communication and add Fees,
because that seems to be one of *the* issues.
- Processing Time
- Item Quality
- Order Accuracy
- Service/Communication
- Fees
Perhaps we could also merge this with some other ideas in this thread. Link the
ratings to the fees that seller has to pay.
4.5-5 stars - standard 3%
4.2-4.4 - 5%
4.0-4.2 - make it *really* hurt at 15%, so it's time to either be shutdown
if you dont pay up, or pay up and keep paying up if that's how you roll.
Or, perhaps change your attitude for a change and improve your service for once.
Keep working on the ratios until *this works* is achieved.
This might need a lot of tweaking and adjusting to higher/smaller volume sellers.
Also some kind of protection so a competing store wont place 20 orders, give
20 "1 star" ratings in a row and force the competing seller into higher % tier.
Also a way for a seller to improve, and not be forever haunted by past mistakes.
The overall rating shown to buyers would be as it is, but the fee penalty would
only be based on last 10% / last 100/500 rating or whatever.
Just general ideas. Everything can be nit-picked apart if you really want to,
but everything can also be built and improved bit by bit until it is as perfect
as it can be.
Just there must be a will to do it
|
I think that incentives go a lot farther than penalties. Many of the worst sellers
have shown that they can get around the odd penalty that is handed out around
here. BL is faced with the task of finding a middle ground that maintains the
big stores and and keeps the hobby stores happy. I do not envy them, as they
are bound to make some people upset no matter what they do.
|
Yes, sellers have shown that they can get around the current measures that BL
has in place. That's the whole point of this post
| | Had more typed, but I am going to stop there.
Scott
|
I am also trimming some of my posts.. I guess we're in an understanding here
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lithuania, Panevėžys
)
)
Canada, Ontario
Germany, Berlin
USA, Missouri
United Kingdom, England
Netherlands, Gelderland
Sweden, Stockholm