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| | | Author: | BLUSER_195088  | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 02:33 | | Subject: | Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 257 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| Would it be possible to expand the VAT system into something more intricate?
The current one can only handle one fixed VAT percentage as far as I know which
is problematic because there can be varying VAT rates and rules resulting in
a seller not having to pay the same amount of VAT on all of his/her goods.
Books are a good example for this, they have a reduced VAT rate in many countries.
And there are Lego books sold here so I imagine it's an actual problem for some.
Used goods are another good example causing probably even more problems. There
are special rules for the resale of used goods in many countries. For example
I don't have to pay VAT item by item on stuff I buy from private sellers (which
are thus legally used whether they are technically new or used) so there's no
VAT to be charged on EU buyers and no VAT to be deducted for non-EU ones.
I'd like to use the built in VAT feature for most of my stuff yet keep selling
used Lego, too. Will that be ever possible without some very cumbersome workarounds?
In essence what I'm asking for is the ability to specify more than 1 VAT rate
per store and then to have the ability to select the applicable VAT rate on an
item by item basis.
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| | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 02:58 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | Would it be possible to expand the VAT system into something more intricate?
The current one can only handle one fixed VAT percentage as far as I know which
is problematic because there can be varying VAT rates and rules resulting in
a seller not having to pay the same amount of VAT on all of his/her goods.
Books are a good example for this, they have a reduced VAT rate in many countries.
And there are Lego books sold here so I imagine it's an actual problem for some.
|
True, I sell books for the same rate as parts. Pay a bit more VAT but saves a
lot of hassle.
| |
Used goods are another good example causing probably even more problems. There
are special rules for the resale of used goods in many countries. For example
I don't have to pay VAT item by item on stuff I buy from private sellers (which
are thus legally used whether they are technically new or used) so there's no
VAT to be charged on EU buyers and no VAT to be deducted for non-EU ones.
|
VAT for used items is quite complicated. We have had this discussion a year or
two before. There are just not enough sellers that use this, cost of implementation
is most likely not justified.
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I'd like to use the built in VAT feature for most of my stuff yet keep selling
used Lego, too. Will that be ever possible without some very cumbersome workarounds?
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Imo it is possible already, cause I do it. But indeed with workarounds in my
own financial administration. The BL system for VAT can't handle it so I don't
use it.
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In essence what I'm asking for is the ability to specify more than 1 VAT rate
per store and then to have the ability to select the applicable VAT rate on an
item by item basis.
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| | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:05 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, patpendlego writes:
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True, I sell books for the same rate as parts. Pay a bit more VAT but saves a
lot of hassle.
|
VAT in Hungary:
27% on Lego
5% on books
If I ever sold books and used BL's VAT feature I wouldn't want 27% deducted from
their price for non-EU buyers by BL's VAT calculation. That comes out to an automatic
discount of almost 20%.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:08 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | In Suggestions, patpendlego writes:
| |
True, I sell books for the same rate as parts. Pay a bit more VAT but saves a
lot of hassle.
|
VAT in Hungary:
27% on Lego
5% on books
If I ever sold books and used BL's VAT feature I wouldn't want 27% deducted from
their price for non-EU buyers by BL's VAT calculation. That comes out to an automatic
discount of almost 20%.
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Move to Slovenia, according to one new member there the laws and rules are only
for the "majority", opting out and operating in the "black market" is OK 
[joke]
Robert
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| | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 05:34 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, patpendlego writes:
| |
VAT for used items is quite complicated. We have had this discussion a year or
two before. There are just not enough sellers that use this, cost of implementation
is most likely not justified.
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Only a few sellers using this might be a part of the symptom, too. I've run into
big stores that deal entirely in used Lego (and not using the VAT feature) or
entirely in new Lego (and thus using the VAT feature). Maybe that separation
partly comes from the hardships of managing both types in one store and thus
the owner electing to go with one and giving up on the other.
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| | | | | Author: | BLUSER_349319 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 03:38 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| It have the same problem with it.
I have a registrated business, and I buy aswel in wholesale, as stuf from private
buyers (used and boxed)
Because of the different VAT rules a business has to apply, it is a little difficult
to use the VAT settingsmthat are build in in BL.
If a seller only sells new items, or only used there is no problem, but if you
do both it is a,problem.
I had some contact over this problem with admin Eric and provided him with some
information on this problem, but I guess this is not his main problem at this
moment.
But there must be more people running into this problem, so please let us hear
from you.
If more people are,experiencing this problem, there is a better change that changes
in the VAT system are made.
In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | Would it be possible to expand the VAT system into something more intricate?
The current one can only handle one fixed VAT percentage as far as I know which
is problematic because there can be varying VAT rates and rules resulting in
a seller not having to pay the same amount of VAT on all of his/her goods.
Books are a good example for this, they have a reduced VAT rate in many countries.
And there are Lego books sold here so I imagine it's an actual problem for some.
Used goods are another good example causing probably even more problems. There
are special rules for the resale of used goods in many countries. For example
I don't have to pay VAT item by item on stuff I buy from private sellers (which
are thus legally used whether they are technically new or used) so there's no
VAT to be charged on EU buyers and no VAT to be deducted for non-EU ones.
I'd like to use the built in VAT feature for most of my stuff yet keep selling
used Lego, too. Will that be ever possible without some very cumbersome workarounds?
In essence what I'm asking for is the ability to specify more than 1 VAT rate
per store and then to have the ability to select the applicable VAT rate on an
item by item basis.
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| | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:03 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Last time we discussed this issue, there were perhaps 3 or 4 sellers actively
involved.
Call the tax office and ask how to handle this: they might just tell you to use
the wholesale VAT rate on all items, argueing the 'margin'-rules do not apply
to you.
You might pay a bit more VAT, but it also saves you a lot of administration &
therefore a lot of time.
Hth,
Arnoud
In Suggestions, Johan1980 writes:
| | It have the same problem with it.
I have a registrated business, and I buy aswel in wholesale, as stuf from private
buyers (used and boxed)
Because of the different VAT rules a business has to apply, it is a little difficult
to use the VAT settingsmthat are build in in BL.
If a seller only sells new items, or only used there is no problem, but if you
do both it is a,problem.
I had some contact over this problem with admin Eric and provided him with some
information on this problem, but I guess this is not his main problem at this
moment.
But there must be more people running into this problem, so please let us hear
from you.
If more people are,experiencing this problem, there is a better change that changes
in the VAT system are made.
In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | Would it be possible to expand the VAT system into something more intricate?
The current one can only handle one fixed VAT percentage as far as I know which
is problematic because there can be varying VAT rates and rules resulting in
a seller not having to pay the same amount of VAT on all of his/her goods.
Books are a good example for this, they have a reduced VAT rate in many countries.
And there are Lego books sold here so I imagine it's an actual problem for some.
Used goods are another good example causing probably even more problems. There
are special rules for the resale of used goods in many countries. For example
I don't have to pay VAT item by item on stuff I buy from private sellers (which
are thus legally used whether they are technically new or used) so there's no
VAT to be charged on EU buyers and no VAT to be deducted for non-EU ones.
I'd like to use the built in VAT feature for most of my stuff yet keep selling
used Lego, too. Will that be ever possible without some very cumbersome workarounds?
In essence what I'm asking for is the ability to specify more than 1 VAT rate
per store and then to have the ability to select the applicable VAT rate on an
item by item basis.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:12 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, patpendlego writes:
| | Last time we discussed this issue, there were perhaps 3 or 4 sellers actively
involved.
Call the tax office and ask how to handle this: they might just tell you to use
the wholesale VAT rate on all items, argueing the 'margin'-rules do not apply
to you.
You might pay a bit more VAT, but it also saves you a lot of administration &
therefore a lot of time.
Hth,
Arnoud
|
Bit more VAT? If I paid VAT on used items by the normal rules (paying 27% on
sale price) I'd lose huge amounts of money as I can't reclaim VAT on purchases
from private sellers. (As they obviously can't provide one with legit receipts
showing VAT.)
If in a quarter year I bought used Lego for 1000 EUR and sold used Lego for 1200
EUR I'd have to pay the following VAT:
- 200 EUR *0.27 by the margin rule
- or 1200 EUR *0.27 by the normal rules with showing VAT in prices with no possibility
to reclaim any VAT on my purchase costs.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:19 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| |
Bit more VAT? If I paid VAT on used items by the normal rules (paying 27% on
sale price) I'd lose huge amounts of money as I can't reclaim VAT on purchases
from private sellers. (As they obviously can't provide one with legit receipts
showing VAT.)
If in a quarter year I bought used Lego for 1000 EUR and sold used Lego for 1200
EUR I'd have to pay the following VAT:
- 200 EUR *0.27 by the margin rule
- or 1200 EUR *0.27 by the normal rules with showing VAT in prices with no possibility
to reclaim any VAT on my purchase costs.
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Sorry, it's actually 21.6% when calculated backwards from the gross price.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | leggodtshop | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:20 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | In Suggestions, patpendlego writes:
| | Last time we discussed this issue, there were perhaps 3 or 4 sellers actively
involved.
Call the tax office and ask how to handle this: they might just tell you to use
the wholesale VAT rate on all items, argueing the 'margin'-rules do not apply
to you.
You might pay a bit more VAT, but it also saves you a lot of administration &
therefore a lot of time.
Hth,
Arnoud
|
Bit more VAT? If I paid VAT on used items by the normal rules (paying 27% on
sale price) I'd lose huge amounts of money as I can't reclaim VAT on purchases
from private sellers. (As they obviously can't provide one with legit receipts
showing VAT.)
If in a quarter year I bought used Lego for 1000 EUR and sold used Lego for 1200
EUR I'd have to pay the following VAT:
- 200 EUR *0.27 by the margin rule
- or 1200 EUR *0.27 by the normal rules with showing VAT in prices with no possibility
to reclaim any VAT on my purchase costs.
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Seems to me you are making much more than 200 euro on 1000?
Like 500 or 600?
The difference is much smaller then.
But indeed with 27% VAT ... that is quite high 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:51 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, patpendlego writes:
| | | |
Bit more VAT? If I paid VAT on used items by the normal rules (paying 27% on
sale price) I'd lose huge amounts of money as I can't reclaim VAT on purchases
from private sellers. (As they obviously can't provide one with legit receipts
showing VAT.)
If in a quarter year I bought used Lego for 1000 EUR and sold used Lego for 1200
EUR I'd have to pay the following VAT:
- 200 EUR *0.27 by the margin rule
- or 1200 EUR *0.27 by the normal rules with showing VAT in prices with no possibility
to reclaim any VAT on my purchase costs.
|
Seems to me you are making much more than 200 euro on 1000?
Like 500 or 600?
The difference is much smaller then.
But indeed with 27% VAT ... that is quite high
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The problem is, the two have an entirely different dynamic. If my store is in
an expanding phase (reinvesting most income right away) then the difference between
margin calculation and the normal one can be a difference between close to zero
VAT to 27% VAT on sale price of used goods. (As it's all income on used stuff
vs. all expenses on used stuff quarterly and not income vs. purchase price of
the actually sold items.) Same if I sell a lot to outside the EU because those
come up as cost for the margin VAT calculation but not as income. (With the normal
VAT calculation I wouldn't have to pay VAT on those but would have to deduct
the VAT from the sale prices effectively providing me with the same net outcome
as if I had to pay full VAT.)
On the long run it averages out somewhat though meaning that if I sell every
used stuff at roughly twice the price compared to the purchase price and all
inside the EU then on the long run the difference in VAT on the sale price will
be 13.5% to 27% between margin and normal calculation. Still too much to eat
and I see no reason to do so. Especially as the real difference will be even
bigger because of selling to non-EU buyers.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_349319 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 04:54 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| If it was on parts I wouldn't mind on applying the VAT settings.
I mostly sell sets, if I would apply the VAT settings, my used products would
be priced too high for European market.
But if I don't apply VAT settings, my new sets will be expensive outside the
EU.
I think you can understand that I'd rather do not make one of this choices....
Haha
But with a little creativity the problem can be solved, with correct outcomes,
charging correct VAT, and paying all BL fees as they should be according to the
rules.
In Suggestions, patpendlego writes:
| | Last time we discussed this issue, there were perhaps 3 or 4 sellers actively
involved.
Call the tax office and ask how to handle this: they might just tell you to use
the wholesale VAT rate on all items, argueing the 'margin'-rules do not apply
to you.
You might pay a bit more VAT, but it also saves you a lot of administration &
therefore a lot of time.
Hth,
Arnoud
In Suggestions, Johan1980 writes:
| | It have the same problem with it.
I have a registrated business, and I buy aswel in wholesale, as stuf from private
buyers (used and boxed)
Because of the different VAT rules a business has to apply, it is a little difficult
to use the VAT settingsmthat are build in in BL.
If a seller only sells new items, or only used there is no problem, but if you
do both it is a,problem.
I had some contact over this problem with admin Eric and provided him with some
information on this problem, but I guess this is not his main problem at this
moment.
But there must be more people running into this problem, so please let us hear
from you.
If more people are,experiencing this problem, there is a better change that changes
in the VAT system are made.
In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | Would it be possible to expand the VAT system into something more intricate?
The current one can only handle one fixed VAT percentage as far as I know which
is problematic because there can be varying VAT rates and rules resulting in
a seller not having to pay the same amount of VAT on all of his/her goods.
Books are a good example for this, they have a reduced VAT rate in many countries.
And there are Lego books sold here so I imagine it's an actual problem for some.
Used goods are another good example causing probably even more problems. There
are special rules for the resale of used goods in many countries. For example
I don't have to pay VAT item by item on stuff I buy from private sellers (which
are thus legally used whether they are technically new or used) so there's no
VAT to be charged on EU buyers and no VAT to be deducted for non-EU ones.
I'd like to use the built in VAT feature for most of my stuff yet keep selling
used Lego, too. Will that be ever possible without some very cumbersome workarounds?
In essence what I'm asking for is the ability to specify more than 1 VAT rate
per store and then to have the ability to select the applicable VAT rate on an
item by item basis.
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| | | | | Author: | BrickZoneStore | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 07:43 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | Would it be possible to expand the VAT system into something more intricate?
The current one can only handle one fixed VAT percentage as far as I know which
is problematic because there can be varying VAT rates and rules resulting in
a seller not having to pay the same amount of VAT on all of his/her goods.
Books are a good example for this, they have a reduced VAT rate in many countries.
And there are Lego books sold here so I imagine it's an actual problem for some.
Used goods are another good example causing probably even more problems. There
are special rules for the resale of used goods in many countries. For example
I don't have to pay VAT item by item on stuff I buy from private sellers (which
are thus legally used whether they are technically new or used) so there's no
VAT to be charged on EU buyers and no VAT to be deducted for non-EU ones.
I'd like to use the built in VAT feature for most of my stuff yet keep selling
used Lego, too. Will that be ever possible without some very cumbersome workarounds?
In essence what I'm asking for is the ability to specify more than 1 VAT rate
per store and then to have the ability to select the applicable VAT rate on an
item by item basis.
|
Do you really need to be part of the VAT system? What is the limit you can earn
before having to join the VAT system in you country? In the UK it is turnover
of £77000.
Gary
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| | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 07:58 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, stino100 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | Would it be possible to expand the VAT system into something more intricate?
The current one can only handle one fixed VAT percentage as far as I know which
is problematic because there can be varying VAT rates and rules resulting in
a seller not having to pay the same amount of VAT on all of his/her goods.
Books are a good example for this, they have a reduced VAT rate in many countries.
And there are Lego books sold here so I imagine it's an actual problem for some.
Used goods are another good example causing probably even more problems. There
are special rules for the resale of used goods in many countries. For example
I don't have to pay VAT item by item on stuff I buy from private sellers (which
are thus legally used whether they are technically new or used) so there's no
VAT to be charged on EU buyers and no VAT to be deducted for non-EU ones.
I'd like to use the built in VAT feature for most of my stuff yet keep selling
used Lego, too. Will that be ever possible without some very cumbersome workarounds?
In essence what I'm asking for is the ability to specify more than 1 VAT rate
per store and then to have the ability to select the applicable VAT rate on an
item by item basis.
|
Do you really need to be part of the VAT system? What is the limit you can earn
before having to join the VAT system in you country? In the UK it is turnover
of £77000.
Gary
|
That is part of their problem. VAT threasholds in most other EU countries are
only a few thousand Euro.... makes you wonder how some stores which are obviously
selling more than that are not VAT registered though, seems like the rules might
be only "lightly" enforced in some places whereas UK has a higher threashold
to help small businesses start up but strongly enforces it with strong penalties.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_195088 | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 08:07 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | | |
Do you really need to be part of the VAT system? What is the limit you can earn
before having to join the VAT system in you country? In the UK it is turnover
of £77000.
Gary
|
That is part of their problem. VAT threasholds in most other EU countries are
only a few thousand Euro.... makes you wonder how some stores which are obviously
selling more than that are not VAT registered though, seems like the rules might
be only "lightly" enforced in some places whereas UK has a higher threashold
to help small businesses start up but strongly enforces it with strong penalties.
Robert
|
Limit here after which you must be VAT registered is about 20 000 EUR / year.
Not only that, but many stores that sell that much are not even registered small
businesses paying taxes when they should be.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Mar 27, 2013 08:57 | | Subject: | Re: Expanding the VAT system | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Nagyzee writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | | |
Do you really need to be part of the VAT system? What is the limit you can earn
before having to join the VAT system in you country? In the UK it is turnover
of £77000.
Gary
|
That is part of their problem. VAT threasholds in most other EU countries are
only a few thousand Euro.... makes you wonder how some stores which are obviously
selling more than that are not VAT registered though, seems like the rules might
be only "lightly" enforced in some places whereas UK has a higher threashold
to help small businesses start up but strongly enforces it with strong penalties.
Robert
|
Limit here after which you must be VAT registered is about 20 000 EUR / year.
Not only that, but many stores that sell that much are not even registered small
businesses paying taxes when they should be.
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Their risk... and a big one if selling on a public site like this where the taxman
can have an account, see FB levels, compare with those that declare, etc. I don't
like such risks and whilst I don't much like paying tax either it beats getting
caught for tax evasion. I sympathise with the VAT problems, it is a reason why
we may limit our store size too.
Robert
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Hungary, Hajdú-Bihar
Netherlands, Overijssel
United Kingdom, England