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| | | Author: | Munich_Bricks  | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 07:36 | | Subject: | Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 494 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
|
| Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others  )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 07:40 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 105 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | Author: | Munich_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 07:51 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | 3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
Well that is a good idea. Hopefully it could also show all extra charges, including
PayPal fees and all other add on fees.
|
Good poitn!
IF a seller charges other fees, these would have to be shown according to the
law.
(I'm not accustomed to that as we don't have such additional charges and fees
in our store. )
Rgds
Thomas
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Stone_Goblin | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 10:01 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | 3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
Well that is a good idea. Hopefully it could also show all extra charges, including
PayPal fees and all other add on fees.
|
Good poitn!
IF a seller charges other fees, these would have to be shown according to the
law.
(I'm not accustomed to that as we don't have such additional charges and fees
in our store. )
Rgds
Thomas
|
Does this not violate PayPal policy? If so I expect PayPal would make an exception
to keep doing business (wasn't there a similar news story recently?).
John @ LibertyBRICK
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Munich_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 10:27 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Does this not violate PayPal policy? If so I expect PayPal would make an exception
to keep doing business (wasn't there a similar news story recently?).
John @ LibertyBRICK
|
No, in Europe (at least in many countries) it is allowed to charge PP fees...
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| | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 08:01 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | 3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
|
Technically speaking this is true in the UK as well, although stating whose postal
rates your using (usually Royal Mail) is adequate.
| | Well that is a good idea. Hopefully it could also show all extra charges, including
PayPal fees and all other add on fees.
|
or better yet, Admin could rule such fees as BL seller fee avoidance and level
the playing field for all sellers, but id be just as happy with an option on
the search form to exclude sellers who charge any form of stupid fees
Gareth
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:18 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 08:02 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 08:14 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
|
Hi Thomas, many thnaks for taking the time to explain this. I am interested in
this as a "non-German" becuase these things have a habit of spreading via EU
law, this sounds like something that is highly likely to find its' way into the
Distance Selling Regulations and it makes sense from a consumer protection point
of view. I also think BL will benefit from having an instant checkout option
although I appreciate that this is not intended for global roll-out at this stage
but it will help test things for Admin's future plans. I
I have a question: In Germany what determines a seller to be "professional" or
not and how is this enforced in law?
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Munich_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:29 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I have a question: In Germany what determines a seller to be "professional" or
not and how is this enforced in law?
Robert
|
Hi Robert,
in Germany (I think quite similar to many other countries) the state wants to
get his part of any income of his citizens.
a) from the view of income tax: One kind of income is 'doing a business'. What's
a 'business' instead of a 'hobby'?
Every kind of 'regular doing' which is 'directed to get a profit'! I know: many
people say: I'm only selling a bit to lower the costs of my hobby, but in fact
they earn profit (= business) to finance their hobby (= private). As especially
the term 'regular' is not defined clearly, the tax office may assume 'professional
business' at least when you have e.g. several feedbacks as a seller at 'the other
side'. Then they may ask how many deals, what kind of deals, what volume etc.
etc.
b) from the view of value added tax (VAT): as soon as you have a turnover of
more than 17.500 Eur you HAVE TO deal incl. VAT - if your sales are lower you
CAN do so.
There are several special regulations such as 'Differenzbesteuerung' which I
don't want to explain...
In General: as soon as a seller is dealing professional, there are many laws
which have to be fulfilled - especially in online-businesses.
Most of them could be solved with store terms and splash pages up to now; but
now we have to add a little more brain and time to get a step further...
HTH
Thomas
(who is no lawyer!...)
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Aug 9, 2012 04:32 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | | | I have a question: In Germany what determines a seller to be "professional" or
not and how is this enforced in law?
Robert
|
Hi Robert,
in Germany (I think quite similar to many other countries) the state wants to
get his part of any income of his citizens.
a) from the view of income tax: One kind of income is 'doing a business'. What's
a 'business' instead of a 'hobby'?
Every kind of 'regular doing' which is 'directed to get a profit'! I know: many
people say: I'm only selling a bit to lower the costs of my hobby, but in fact
they earn profit (= business) to finance their hobby (= private). As especially
the term 'regular' is not defined clearly, the tax office may assume 'professional
business' at least when you have e.g. several feedbacks as a seller at 'the other
side'. Then they may ask how many deals, what kind of deals, what volume etc.
etc.
b) from the view of value added tax (VAT): as soon as you have a turnover of
more than 17.500 Eur you HAVE TO deal incl. VAT - if your sales are lower you
CAN do so.
There are several special regulations such as 'Differenzbesteuerung' which I
don't want to explain...
In General: as soon as a seller is dealing professional, there are many laws
which have to be fulfilled - especially in online-businesses.
Most of them could be solved with store terms and splash pages up to now; but
now we have to add a little more brain and time to get a step further...
HTH
Thomas
(who is no lawyer!...)
|
Thanks Thomas, that is indeed similar to UK. Tax is a separate issue but there
is much legislation already in place across the EU now for consumer protection
such as the Distance Selling Regulations (and running a store that happens to
be in the same trading sector as your hobby of course has no legal significance
whatsoever to that). If we are going to have specific functionality in place
on BL to help sellers keep within the law I think we also should have more guidance-
1. For sellers to help them determine which legislation aplies to them and
2. For buyers to understand their rights and which sellers are obliged to honour
their rights.
eBay does this on a per country basis. BL does not have the resources of eBay
of course but if members such as yourself are co-ordinating things with Admin
for Germany then we could have similar efforts in other countries too. I have
suggested this in the past and I think it is essential for BL to be seen to be
promoting legal trading and doing what it can to help its' members do so. I constantly
come across EU stores that (by any deffinition) would be classed as "professional"
which (either by lack of knowledge or deliberately) sell in complete conflict
with the basic provisions of the DSR and other trading laws and I see this new
one presenting exactly the same issues. Maybe something to discuss with Admin.
Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Munich_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 9, 2012 06:07 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | | | I have a question: In Germany what determines a seller to be "professional" or
not and how is this enforced in law?
Robert
|
Hi Robert,
in Germany (I think quite similar to many other countries) the state wants to
get his part of any income of his citizens.
a) from the view of income tax: One kind of income is 'doing a business'. What's
a 'business' instead of a 'hobby'?
Every kind of 'regular doing' which is 'directed to get a profit'! I know: many
people say: I'm only selling a bit to lower the costs of my hobby, but in fact
they earn profit (= business) to finance their hobby (= private). As especially
the term 'regular' is not defined clearly, the tax office may assume 'professional
business' at least when you have e.g. several feedbacks as a seller at 'the other
side'. Then they may ask how many deals, what kind of deals, what volume etc.
etc.
b) from the view of value added tax (VAT): as soon as you have a turnover of
more than 17.500 Eur you HAVE TO deal incl. VAT - if your sales are lower you
CAN do so.
There are several special regulations such as 'Differenzbesteuerung' which I
don't want to explain...
In General: as soon as a seller is dealing professional, there are many laws
which have to be fulfilled - especially in online-businesses.
Most of them could be solved with store terms and splash pages up to now; but
now we have to add a little more brain and time to get a step further...
HTH
Thomas
(who is no lawyer!...)
|
Thanks Thomas, that is indeed similar to UK. Tax is a separate issue but there
is much legislation already in place across the EU now for consumer protection
such as the Distance Selling Regulations (and running a store that happens to
be in the same trading sector as your hobby of course has no legal significance
whatsoever to that). If we are going to have specific functionality in place
on BL to help sellers keep within the law I think we also should have more guidance-
1. For sellers to help them determine which legislation aplies to them and
2. For buyers to understand their rights and which sellers are obliged to honour
their rights.
eBay does this on a per country basis. BL does not have the resources of eBay
of course but if members such as yourself are co-ordinating things with Admin
for Germany then we could have similar efforts in other countries too. I have
suggested this in the past and I think it is essential for BL to be seen to be
promoting legal trading and doing what it can to help its' members do so. I constantly
come across EU stores that (by any deffinition) would be classed as "professional"
which (either by lack of knowledge or deliberately) sell in complete conflict
with the basic provisions of the DSR and other trading laws and I see this new
one presenting exactly the same issues. Maybe something to discuss with Admin.
Robert
|
Hi Robert,
from my point of view these things are completely in the responsiblity of us
sellers, not Admin. (some of them are a bit 'resistant regarding consulting'
.
All these legal issues might be worked out for each country and can be shared
between the specific sellers in that country. As always - it needs ONE who starts
the group...
(May be there could be additional forum topics especially to inform sellers -
in their mother language.)
I'd like to discuss some kind of user-group with admin to share the knowledge
as well as the load of work. I can think of country specific views with foreign
texts etc. which can be provided from these user-groups so that we don't have
to ask each and everything to be implemented by admin.
Precondition would be a clear architecture and documentation of the system so
that 'we' could fill specific tables etc. ourselves.
But I think we'll have to wait with such discussions until the current bugs have
been repaired.
Rgds
Andreas
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Aug 9, 2012 06:23 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | | | I have a question: In Germany what determines a seller to be "professional" or
not and how is this enforced in law?
Robert
|
Hi Robert,
in Germany (I think quite similar to many other countries) the state wants to
get his part of any income of his citizens.
a) from the view of income tax: One kind of income is 'doing a business'. What's
a 'business' instead of a 'hobby'?
Every kind of 'regular doing' which is 'directed to get a profit'! I know: many
people say: I'm only selling a bit to lower the costs of my hobby, but in fact
they earn profit (= business) to finance their hobby (= private). As especially
the term 'regular' is not defined clearly, the tax office may assume 'professional
business' at least when you have e.g. several feedbacks as a seller at 'the other
side'. Then they may ask how many deals, what kind of deals, what volume etc.
etc.
b) from the view of value added tax (VAT): as soon as you have a turnover of
more than 17.500 Eur you HAVE TO deal incl. VAT - if your sales are lower you
CAN do so.
There are several special regulations such as 'Differenzbesteuerung' which I
don't want to explain...
In General: as soon as a seller is dealing professional, there are many laws
which have to be fulfilled - especially in online-businesses.
Most of them could be solved with store terms and splash pages up to now; but
now we have to add a little more brain and time to get a step further...
HTH
Thomas
(who is no lawyer!...)
|
Thanks Thomas, that is indeed similar to UK. Tax is a separate issue but there
is much legislation already in place across the EU now for consumer protection
such as the Distance Selling Regulations (and running a store that happens to
be in the same trading sector as your hobby of course has no legal significance
whatsoever to that). If we are going to have specific functionality in place
on BL to help sellers keep within the law I think we also should have more guidance-
1. For sellers to help them determine which legislation aplies to them and
2. For buyers to understand their rights and which sellers are obliged to honour
their rights.
eBay does this on a per country basis. BL does not have the resources of eBay
of course but if members such as yourself are co-ordinating things with Admin
for Germany then we could have similar efforts in other countries too. I have
suggested this in the past and I think it is essential for BL to be seen to be
promoting legal trading and doing what it can to help its' members do so. I constantly
come across EU stores that (by any deffinition) would be classed as "professional"
which (either by lack of knowledge or deliberately) sell in complete conflict
with the basic provisions of the DSR and other trading laws and I see this new
one presenting exactly the same issues. Maybe something to discuss with Admin.
Robert
|
Hi Robert,
from my point of view these things are completely in the responsiblity of us
sellers, not Admin. (some of them are a bit 'resistant regarding consulting'
.
All these legal issues might be worked out for each country and can be shared
between the specific sellers in that country. As always - it needs ONE who starts
the group...
(May be there could be additional forum topics especially to inform sellers -
in their mother language.)
I'd like to discuss some kind of user-group with admin to share the knowledge
as well as the load of work. I can think of country specific views with foreign
texts etc. which can be provided from these user-groups so that we don't have
to ask each and everything to be implemented by admin.
Precondition would be a clear architecture and documentation of the system so
that 'we' could fill specific tables etc. ourselves.
But I think we'll have to wait with such discussions until the current bugs have
been repaired.
Rgds
Andreas
|
Hi Andreas, sounds like good thinking to me. I agree, seller is responsible for
doing things properly, BL should do what it can to give him the tools and information
to do so where possible. A lot of people come here to sell, it is easy to set
up a store and just as easy to fall foul of the law through lack of knowledge
(or by decision of course). Equally a good marketplace should provide its' buyers
with information about their rights and what they should expect from sellers
- it all promotes a quality site that people can trust. It was a while ago and
some of it was to address some other issues we had at the time but part of this
is relevent I think:
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=592577
I would be willing to contribute to any discussions on this and also would help
maintain any UK data if asked. Of course, as you say I appreciate Admin still
has some short term priorties to fix!
Thanks, Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 08:25 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| It's a nice dream, but I'm afraid it's nothing more than that.
When ordering on BL the system uses the weight as mentioned in the catalog.
That weight is supplied by BL users and for new(-er) or very rare items (that
cannot be double-checked) that information might be incorrect or, as in a lot
of cases now, not mentioned at all.
Are you German sellers, by law, obligated to honour the shipping quote mentioned
on the checkout page, even if this price might not even come close to the actual
price paid?
I see a huge window of oportunity for BL users to seriously abuse German seller
by ordering items that do not have the weight added to the catalog (yet).
I could for example order 200 minifigs of which only one lot shows the weight
and then pay the price of 2-3€ for shipment, whereas the seller will pay a multitude
of that.
On Amazon, Ebay and so on the sellers (apparently) weigh the item before putting
it up for sale, thus having reliable figures to base their shipping quotes on
OR they use flat rates for shipment.
Only in that case (using flat rate) I see this proposition have any chance of
actually working (but still with room to abuse).
I am curious how they are going to find solutions for all the issues this proposition
is showing, but am not very optimistic.
Let's say it does work in the end (perhaps on BL 2.0): doesn't that create a
very unfair advantage of professional sellers towards "lay people" sellers as
those people will not be able to use flat rates and thus have very little use
for that system?
I know we're at a very early stage in this and many things have to be thought
through before proceeding, but thus far this "button" seems to raise a lot more
questions than it answers (IMO).
Reki
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | cptnruthless | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 08:38 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | It's a nice dream, but I'm afraid it's nothing more than that.
When ordering on BL the system uses the weight as mentioned in the catalog.
That weight is supplied by BL users and for new(-er) or very rare items (that
cannot be double-checked) that information might be incorrect or, as in a lot
of cases now, not mentioned at all.
Are you German sellers, by law, obligated to honour the shipping quote mentioned
on the checkout page, even if this price might not even come close to the actual
price paid?
I see a huge window of oportunity for BL users to seriously abuse German seller
by ordering items that do not have the weight added to the catalog (yet).
|
The way that you dont let this happen is that any item that does not have a weight,
you can add your OWN weight in the "My Weight" field when listing an item. (and
then of course, help the rest of us out by submitting it to the catalog)
| |
I could for example order 200 minifigs of which only one lot shows the weight
and then pay the price of 2-3€ for shipment, whereas the seller will pay a multitude
of that.
On Amazon, Ebay and so on the sellers (apparently) weigh the item before putting
it up for sale, thus having reliable figures to base their shipping quotes on
OR they use flat rates for shipment.
Only in that case (using flat rate) I see this proposition have any chance of
actually working (but still with room to abuse).
I am curious how they are going to find solutions for all the issues this proposition
is showing, but am not very optimistic.
Let's say it does work in the end (perhaps on BL 2.0): doesn't that create a
very unfair advantage of professional sellers towards "lay people" sellers as
those people will not be able to use flat rates and thus have very little use
for that system?
I know we're at a very early stage in this and many things have to be thought
through before proceeding, but thus far this "button" seems to raise a lot more
questions than it answers (IMO).
Reki
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Munich_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 08:38 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hi Reki,
| | Are you German sellers, by law, obligated to honour the shipping quote mentioned
on the checkout page, even if this price might not even come close to the actual
price paid?
|
A German seller now has (for German buyers) to quote the shipping costs as they
will apply later in the invoice. If e.g. there is a mistake in the table it's
his risk.
| | I see a huge window of oportunity for BL users to seriously abuse German seller
by ordering items that do not have the weight added to the catalog (yet).
|
A seller is always responsible for all items listed and offered in his store.
Even now he can check if there are any items in his inventory with missing weigths
and in future he will have to add the weights to these items if he wants to avoid
mistakes and losses.
Quite easy, isn't it?
Kind regards
Thomas
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:01 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
Again, I do think in itself it's a brilliant idea, but the practical use on our
website (as we know it today) is very remote at best.
There's just so many dozens of examples of trouble-scenario's I can think of.
One last example perhaps: the sometimes VERY big difference between being able
to send an order in a padded envelope or in a box. When shipping in a box the
shipping costs are usually higher, though the line between having to use a box
instead of an envelope is a very thin one indeed.
How are the sellers going to define this in advance? Because, again, the seller
might end up paying more shipping costs than the buyer will.
Are German sellers (or any sellers for that matter) really willing to cough up
the extra costs?
Most people seem to compare this system with Amazon, Ebay and so on. THe biggest
difference is that the majority of those auctions / sales are for single items
where the seller can weigh in advance what the package will weigh and what kind
package is necessary for that item.
That is NOT possible on Bricklink as you have no idea in advance what kind of
parts a buyer will order.
Yet one more example then: ordering four 48x48 baseplates. The weight won't be
that spectacular, but I can assure you the total weight including the very big
box will be spectacualr compared to someone ordering the same weight in minifigs.
How would the Bricklink system take something like that into account?
No, sorry, I am really not sold and I feel sorry in advance for the people that
are obliged by law to use something like this as it is extremely impractical
(again, if you're not charging flat rates for shipping which will lead to overcharging
for a lot of small orders).
But hey, I welcome the technical people to counter my worries by nullifying all
my statements, but I do not have the feeling (yet) this has been thoroughly thought
through (now there's a tongue breaker), both from the BL people as by the German
government (no news there, politicans and law makers vary rarily think something
through in advance ).
Reki
In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| |
A seller is always responsible for all items listed and offered in his store.
Even now he can check if there are any items in his inventory with missing weigths
and in future he will have to add the weights to these items if he wants to avoid
mistakes and losses.
Quite easy, isn't it?
Kind regards
Thomas
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Munich_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:21 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
Again, I do think in itself it's a brilliant idea, but the practical use on our
website (as we know it today) is very remote at best.
There's just so many dozens of examples of trouble-scenario's I can think of.
One last example perhaps: the sometimes VERY big difference between being able
to send an order in a padded envelope or in a box. When shipping in a box the
shipping costs are usually higher, though the line between having to use a box
instead of an envelope is a very thin one indeed.
How are the sellers going to define this in advance? Because, again, the seller
might end up paying more shipping costs than the buyer will.
Are German sellers (or any sellers for that matter) really willing to cough up
the extra costs?
Most people seem to compare this system with Amazon, Ebay and so on. THe biggest
difference is that the majority of those auctions / sales are for single items
where the seller can weigh in advance what the package will weigh and what kind
package is necessary for that item.
That is NOT possible on Bricklink as you have no idea in advance what kind of
parts a buyer will order.
Yet one more example then: ordering four 48x48 baseplates. The weight won't be
that spectacular, but I can assure you the total weight including the very big
box will be spectacualr compared to someone ordering the same weight in minifigs.
How would the Bricklink system take something like that into account?
No, sorry, I am really not sold and I feel sorry in advance for the people that
are obliged by law to use something like this as it is extremely impractical
(again, if you're not charging flat rates for shipping which will lead to overcharging
for a lot of small orders).
But hey, I welcome the technical people to counter my worries by nullifying all
my statements, but I do not have the feeling (yet) this has been thoroughly thought
through (now there's a tongue breaker), both from the BL people as by the German
government (no news there, politicans and law makers vary rarily think something
through in advance ).
Reki
In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| |
A seller is always responsible for all items listed and offered in his store.
Even now he can check if there are any items in his inventory with missing weigths
and in future he will have to add the weights to these items if he wants to avoid
mistakes and losses.
Quite easy, isn't it?
Kind regards
Thomas
|
|
Hi Reki,
to end up this fruitless theoretical discussion:
1) as LAW requires to show shipping costs we (German sellers) have to end up
with a solution (or we have to stop to sell to German buyers or we may be subject
to -draconic- fines)
2) from the exoeriences in our 'little' shop: even though we pick most orders
before invoicing, in 99% I can tell you the shipping costs in advance.
(and YES, we have a detailed scale and we take the time to add weights to the
catalog e.g. when we part out new sets)
rgds
Thomas
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:29 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
Again, I do think in itself it's a brilliant idea, but the practical use on our
website (as we know it today) is very remote at best.
There's just so many dozens of examples of trouble-scenario's I can think of.
One last example perhaps: the sometimes VERY big difference between being able
to send an order in a padded envelope or in a box. When shipping in a box the
shipping costs are usually higher, though the line between having to use a box
instead of an envelope is a very thin one indeed.
How are the sellers going to define this in advance? Because, again, the seller
might end up paying more shipping costs than the buyer will.
Are German sellers (or any sellers for that matter) really willing to cough up
the extra costs?
Most people seem to compare this system with Amazon, Ebay and so on. THe biggest
difference is that the majority of those auctions / sales are for single items
where the seller can weigh in advance what the package will weigh and what kind
package is necessary for that item.
That is NOT possible on Bricklink as you have no idea in advance what kind of
parts a buyer will order.
Yet one more example then: ordering four 48x48 baseplates. The weight won't be
that spectacular, but I can assure you the total weight including the very big
box will be spectacualr compared to someone ordering the same weight in minifigs.
How would the Bricklink system take something like that into account?
No, sorry, I am really not sold and I feel sorry in advance for the people that
are obliged by law to use something like this as it is extremely impractical
(again, if you're not charging flat rates for shipping which will lead to overcharging
for a lot of small orders).
But hey, I welcome the technical people to counter my worries by nullifying all
my statements, but I do not have the feeling (yet) this has been thoroughly thought
through (now there's a tongue breaker), both from the BL people as by the German
government (no news there, politicans and law makers vary rarily think something
through in advance ).
Reki
In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| |
A seller is always responsible for all items listed and offered in his store.
Even now he can check if there are any items in his inventory with missing weigths
and in future he will have to add the weights to these items if he wants to avoid
mistakes and losses.
Quite easy, isn't it?
Kind regards
Thomas
|
|
Hi Reki,
to end up this fruitless theoretical discussion:
1) as LAW requires to show shipping costs we (German sellers) have to end up
with a solution (or we have to stop to sell to German buyers or we may be subject
to -draconic- fines)
2) from the exoeriences in our 'little' shop: even though we pick most orders
before invoicing, in 99% I can tell you the shipping costs in advance.
(and YES, we have a detailed scale and we take the time to add weights to the
catalog e.g. when we part out new sets)
rgds
Thomas
|
but hey, you forget the tried and tested BL seller solution.. "I only do this
for a hobby so the law is not the law in my store".
seriously, it is good to see you trying to embrace the law instead of getting
around it however difficult it might be. This is why I asked what determines
a "professional" seller in Germany, here we do not use that term in a legal sense.
Are there some specific factors that determine this or can you just decide yourself
to be called professional or not?
Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:36 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
Again, I do think in itself it's a brilliant idea, but the practical use on our
website (as we know it today) is very remote at best.
There's just so many dozens of examples of trouble-scenario's I can think of.
One last example perhaps: the sometimes VERY big difference between being able
to send an order in a padded envelope or in a box. When shipping in a box the
shipping costs are usually higher, though the line between having to use a box
instead of an envelope is a very thin one indeed.
How are the sellers going to define this in advance? Because, again, the seller
might end up paying more shipping costs than the buyer will.
Are German sellers (or any sellers for that matter) really willing to cough up
the extra costs?
Most people seem to compare this system with Amazon, Ebay and so on. THe biggest
difference is that the majority of those auctions / sales are for single items
where the seller can weigh in advance what the package will weigh and what kind
package is necessary for that item.
That is NOT possible on Bricklink as you have no idea in advance what kind of
parts a buyer will order.
Yet one more example then: ordering four 48x48 baseplates. The weight won't be
that spectacular, but I can assure you the total weight including the very big
box will be spectacualr compared to someone ordering the same weight in minifigs.
How would the Bricklink system take something like that into account?
No, sorry, I am really not sold and I feel sorry in advance for the people that
are obliged by law to use something like this as it is extremely impractical
(again, if you're not charging flat rates for shipping which will lead to overcharging
for a lot of small orders).
But hey, I welcome the technical people to counter my worries by nullifying all
my statements, but I do not have the feeling (yet) this has been thoroughly thought
through (now there's a tongue breaker), both from the BL people as by the German
government (no news there, politicans and law makers vary rarily think something
through in advance ).
Reki
In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| |
A seller is always responsible for all items listed and offered in his store.
Even now he can check if there are any items in his inventory with missing weigths
and in future he will have to add the weights to these items if he wants to avoid
mistakes and losses.
Quite easy, isn't it?
Kind regards
Thomas
|
|
Hi Reki,
to end up this fruitless theoretical discussion:
1) as LAW requires to show shipping costs we (German sellers) have to end up
with a solution (or we have to stop to sell to German buyers or we may be subject
to -draconic- fines)
2) from the exoeriences in our 'little' shop: even though we pick most orders
before invoicing, in 99% I can tell you the shipping costs in advance.
(and YES, we have a detailed scale and we take the time to add weights to the
catalog e.g. when we part out new sets)
rgds
Thomas
|
Would it be that impossible to have a "quarantine list" with items like baseplates
or other larger parts that automatically charge a minimum rate? Say 200g is
$5, but if a certain item number is on that order it wouldn't charge less than
$10 despite the lower weight? Maybe each seller could choose which items in
their store go on the list.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:15 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Would it be that impossible to have a "quarantine list" with items like baseplates
or other larger parts that automatically charge a minimum rate? Say 200g is
$5, but if a certain item number is on that order it wouldn't charge less than
$10 despite the lower weight? Maybe each seller could choose which items in
their store go on the list.
Scott
|
Effectively, this can already be done using the my weight field, thus if something
has a catalog weight of 25g and you know no matter what else an order contains
that item needs another 50g of packaging, you can set the weight of that item
at 75g
Gareth
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | QCBricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 14:19 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | | | Would it be that impossible to have a "quarantine list" with items like baseplates
or other larger parts that automatically charge a minimum rate? Say 200g is
$5, but if a certain item number is on that order it wouldn't charge less than
$10 despite the lower weight? Maybe each seller could choose which items in
their store go on the list.
Scott
|
Effectively, this can already be done using the my weight field, thus if something
has a catalog weight of 25g and you know no matter what else an order contains
that item needs another 50g of packaging, you can set the weight of that item
at 75g
Gareth
|
Doesn't that add in multiples if several items are ordered? For example if I
order 5 of those doesn't it add 375g? One challenge I think someone mentioned
above is being surprised by some huge shipping charge that may turn a buyer away.
Is there another possible way to automatically add an additional charge not strictly
based on weight?
I really feel for the dev team and the German sellers on this one...what a pain.
Scott
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 14:31 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, QCBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | | | Would it be that impossible to have a "quarantine list" with items like baseplates
or other larger parts that automatically charge a minimum rate? Say 200g is
$5, but if a certain item number is on that order it wouldn't charge less than
$10 despite the lower weight? Maybe each seller could choose which items in
their store go on the list.
Scott
|
Effectively, this can already be done using the my weight field, thus if something
has a catalog weight of 25g and you know no matter what else an order contains
that item needs another 50g of packaging, you can set the weight of that item
at 75g
|
|
Reason the site needs flexible entries for (but predetermined by) sellers.
Going by this case (and reviewing my own shipping options) I would:
1. select 'box' shipment when listing the item (minimum of 350 grams shipment)
2. my 'boxed shipments' would be at 350 grams (with wrapping material set to
80 grams)
3. you buy this: 350 grams-80 grams= 270 grams allowed in order (showing in cart:
allowed within current shippingcosts: 270-25 grams= 245 grams). You buy 1 (based
on 25 grams item), still the same, you buy 8: still the same, you buy 12: 380
grams -- my shipping goes to 'up to 1Kg' and packing material of 120 grams (max
880 grams of items allowed), BL shows that, buyer can reduce quantity...etc
| |
Doesn't that add in multiples if several items are ordered? For example if I
order 5 of those doesn't it add 375g? One challenge I think someone mentioned
above is being surprised by some huge shipping charge that may turn a buyer away.
Is there another possible way to automatically add an additional charge not strictly
based on weight?
I really feel for the dev team and the German sellers on this one...what a pain.
Scott
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:45 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
Again, I do think in itself it's a brilliant idea, but the practical use on our
website (as we know it today) is very remote at best.
There's just so many dozens of examples of trouble-scenario's I can think of.
One last example perhaps: the sometimes VERY big difference between being able
to send an order in a padded envelope or in a box. When shipping in a box the
shipping costs are usually higher, though the line between having to use a box
instead of an envelope is a very thin one indeed.
How are the sellers going to define this in advance? Because, again, the seller
might end up paying more shipping costs than the buyer will.
Are German sellers (or any sellers for that matter) really willing to cough up
the extra costs?
Most people seem to compare this system with Amazon, Ebay and so on. THe biggest
difference is that the majority of those auctions / sales are for single items
where the seller can weigh in advance what the package will weigh and what kind
package is necessary for that item.
That is NOT possible on Bricklink as you have no idea in advance what kind of
parts a buyer will order.
Yet one more example then: ordering four 48x48 baseplates. The weight won't be
that spectacular, but I can assure you the total weight including the very big
box will be spectacualr compared to someone ordering the same weight in minifigs.
How would the Bricklink system take something like that into account?
No, sorry, I am really not sold and I feel sorry in advance for the people that
are obliged by law to use something like this as it is extremely impractical
(again, if you're not charging flat rates for shipping which will lead to overcharging
for a lot of small orders).
But hey, I welcome the technical people to counter my worries by nullifying all
my statements, but I do not have the feeling (yet) this has been thoroughly thought
through (now there's a tongue breaker), both from the BL people as by the German
government (no news there, politicans and law makers vary rarily think something
through in advance ).
Reki
In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| |
A seller is always responsible for all items listed and offered in his store.
Even now he can check if there are any items in his inventory with missing weigths
and in future he will have to add the weights to these items if he wants to avoid
mistakes and losses.
Quite easy, isn't it?
Kind regards
Thomas
|
|
Hi Reki,
to end up this fruitless theoretical discussion:
1) as LAW requires to show shipping costs we (German sellers) have to end up
with a solution (or we have to stop to sell to German buyers or we may be subject
to -draconic- fines)
2) from the exoeriences in our 'little' shop: even though we pick most orders
before invoicing, in 99% I can tell you the shipping costs in advance.
(and YES, we have a detailed scale and we take the time to add weights to the
catalog e.g. when we part out new sets)
rgds
Thomas
|
99,50% of my orders are calculated based on BL weight (or combined with 'judgement
call' if the BL weight is missing) and are *never* picked in advance in my store.
I think I midjudged 2 or 3 shippings on nearly more then 800 orders (besides
the few ones I 'identified' wrong, but that is my mistake, not a BL 'weight'
mistake). So I Thomas is right, it should not be a factor.
More 'details' (things we would need to implement it) ahead in this thread later
on...
Eric
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | viejos | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
|
Not that I'm in support of that piece of new legislation...
but every seller large enough to be a "professional" seller should have a scale
accurate enough to submit BL weights, plus the VOLUME of pieces necessary to
get a good measurement.
As for the time it takes to weigh things and submit the data, somebody had to
GIVE that time to the catalog, and as is the case in most situations where giving
is involved, 10% of the people do 90% of the work. And the work is pretty much
done for all common items.
I have never understood the negative reaction some people have to BL weights.
They are accurate, automatically calculated, and when used intelligently with
a shipping chart they can predict the shipping charges 99% of the time. I would
much rather have my shipping calculated by weight than some elementary formula
based on the price of the goods.
Russell
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 14:01 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, viejos writes:
| | In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
|
Not that I'm in support of that piece of new legislation...
but every seller large enough to be a "professional" seller should have a scale
accurate enough to submit BL weights, plus the VOLUME of pieces necessary to
get a good measurement.
As for the time it takes to weigh things and submit the data, somebody had to
GIVE that time to the catalog, and as is the case in most situations where giving
is involved, 10% of the people do 90% of the work. And the work is pretty much
done for all common items.
|
currently about 56000 items in catalog, top 60 of 'providers' (150 weights or
more) have contributed about 41500 weights 
more then 50000 items have a weight and about 740 have contributed on it...
If those 740 'contributors' contribute an average of 8 weights, we would have
a catalog that is 'nearly' complete when it comes down to 'weights'
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?v=3&itemWeight=0
Have a look at the list and see what you have
| |
I have never understood the negative reaction some people have to BL weights.
They are accurate, automatically calculated, and when used intelligently with
a shipping chart they can predict the shipping charges 99% of the time. I would
much rather have my shipping calculated by weight than some elementary formula
based on the price of the goods.
Russell
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 11:24 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | "easy" for those who have a very expensive detailed scale and too much time on
their hands to submit data to the catalog (which I can only assume big sellers
do not have?), yes.
But for the other: they will add for example weight of a certain item: 1g (as
their scale is not scaled below that) which is perhaps more than the actual weight
(which might be 0.4g).
If that seller sells 1,000 items of this object, the weight will be 600g too
much and thus the shipping costs way too high.
|
I've added a few catalog weights with a 1 gram accuracy.
I think it is better to have that "inaccurate" entry than no entry at all.
Anyone who can take a more precise measurement is invited to submit an improvement
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Speciale | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 09:30 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | It's a nice dream, but I'm afraid it's nothing more than that.
When ordering on BL the system uses the weight as mentioned in the catalog.
That weight is supplied by BL users and for new(-er) or very rare items (that
cannot be double-checked) that information might be incorrect or, as in a lot
of cases now, not mentioned at all.
Are you German sellers, by law, obligated to honour the shipping quote mentioned
on the checkout page, even if this price might not even come close to the actual
price paid?
I see a huge window of oportunity for BL users to seriously abuse German seller
by ordering items that do not have the weight added to the catalog (yet).
I could for example order 200 minifigs of which only one lot shows the weight
and then pay the price of 2-3€ for shipment, whereas the seller will pay a multitude
of that.
On Amazon, Ebay and so on the sellers (apparently) weigh the item before putting
it up for sale, thus having reliable figures to base their shipping quotes on
OR they use flat rates for shipment.
Only in that case (using flat rate) I see this proposition have any chance of
actually working (but still with room to abuse).
I am curious how they are going to find solutions for all the issues this proposition
is showing, but am not very optimistic.
Let's say it does work in the end (perhaps on BL 2.0): doesn't that create a
very unfair advantage of professional sellers towards "lay people" sellers as
those people will not be able to use flat rates and thus have very little use
for that system?
I know we're at a very early stage in this and many things have to be thought
through before proceeding, but thus far this "button" seems to raise a lot more
questions than it answers (IMO).
Reki
|
ebay sellers use corect shipping rate for every item what you buy ? the problem
is there if you buy 4 sealed boxes of 60 minifigures in 4 auction with one seller
and you like to pay befor the seller change the shipping cost , ebay give the
buyer 4 times the shipping cost ? if the buyer and seller are from germany the
seller can send all 4 auctions in one packaging box for 6.90 euro up to 30 kilo
.
my last 2 items what i buy in ebay with one seller have cost me 17 euro shipping
, seller dont like to change the invois ?
regards r
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | DagsBricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 10:51 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 11:47 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| as far as I remember Ebay charges fees on the total price, including shipping
costs.
So in Rohnny's example a seller would be seriously F******. 
Reki
In Suggestions, DagsBricks writes:
| |
So the more upstanding sellers will just refund any significant difference after
they post. That's what I would do; bid high on shipping, give back the unused
portion.
Brian
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ash_274 | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 11:53 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, DagsBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, brasletty writes:
| | In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | It's a nice dream, but I'm afraid it's nothing more than that.
When ordering on BL the system uses the weight as mentioned in the catalog.
That weight is supplied by BL users and for new(-er) or very rare items (that
cannot be double-checked) that information might be incorrect or, as in a lot
of cases now, not mentioned at all.
Are you German sellers, by law, obligated to honour the shipping quote mentioned
on the checkout page, even if this price might not even come close to the actual
price paid?
I see a huge window of oportunity for BL users to seriously abuse German seller
by ordering items that do not have the weight added to the catalog (yet).
I could for example order 200 minifigs of which only one lot shows the weight
and then pay the price of 2-3€ for shipment, whereas the seller will pay a multitude
of that.
On Amazon, Ebay and so on the sellers (apparently) weigh the item before putting
it up for sale, thus having reliable figures to base their shipping quotes on
OR they use flat rates for shipment.
Only in that case (using flat rate) I see this proposition have any chance of
actually working (but still with room to abuse).
I am curious how they are going to find solutions for all the issues this proposition
is showing, but am not very optimistic.
Let's say it does work in the end (perhaps on BL 2.0): doesn't that create a
very unfair advantage of professional sellers towards "lay people" sellers as
those people will not be able to use flat rates and thus have very little use
for that system?
I know we're at a very early stage in this and many things have to be thought
through before proceeding, but thus far this "button" seems to raise a lot more
questions than it answers (IMO).
Reki
|
ebay sellers use corect shipping rate for every item what you buy ? the problem
is there if you buy 4 sealed boxes of 60 minifigures in 4 auction with one seller
and you like to pay befor the seller change the shipping cost , ebay give the
buyer 4 times the shipping cost ? if the buyer and seller are from germany the
seller can send all 4 auctions in one packaging box for 6.90 euro up to 30 kilo
.
my last 2 items what i buy in ebay with one seller have cost me 17 euro shipping
, seller dont like to change the invois ?
regards r
|
So the more upstanding sellers will just refund any significant difference after
they post. That's what I would do; bid high on shipping, give back the unused
portion.
Brian
|
It's a shame that PayPal keeps 30 cents of any refund, regardless of the amount
refunded. For larger orders it's OK, but for small orders? You could get around
it by, instead of refunding, sending "personal payments" back to the buyer; but
Paypal gets fussy about people sending a lot of "personal payments"
-Ash
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:48 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ash_274 writes:
| | In Suggestions, DagsBricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, brasletty writes:
| | In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | It's a nice dream, but I'm afraid it's nothing more than that.
When ordering on BL the system uses the weight as mentioned in the catalog.
That weight is supplied by BL users and for new(-er) or very rare items (that
cannot be double-checked) that information might be incorrect or, as in a lot
of cases now, not mentioned at all.
Are you German sellers, by law, obligated to honour the shipping quote mentioned
on the checkout page, even if this price might not even come close to the actual
price paid?
I see a huge window of oportunity for BL users to seriously abuse German seller
by ordering items that do not have the weight added to the catalog (yet).
I could for example order 200 minifigs of which only one lot shows the weight
and then pay the price of 2-3€ for shipment, whereas the seller will pay a multitude
of that.
On Amazon, Ebay and so on the sellers (apparently) weigh the item before putting
it up for sale, thus having reliable figures to base their shipping quotes on
OR they use flat rates for shipment.
Only in that case (using flat rate) I see this proposition have any chance of
actually working (but still with room to abuse).
I am curious how they are going to find solutions for all the issues this proposition
is showing, but am not very optimistic.
Let's say it does work in the end (perhaps on BL 2.0): doesn't that create a
very unfair advantage of professional sellers towards "lay people" sellers as
those people will not be able to use flat rates and thus have very little use
for that system?
I know we're at a very early stage in this and many things have to be thought
through before proceeding, but thus far this "button" seems to raise a lot more
questions than it answers (IMO).
Reki
|
ebay sellers use corect shipping rate for every item what you buy ? the problem
is there if you buy 4 sealed boxes of 60 minifigures in 4 auction with one seller
and you like to pay befor the seller change the shipping cost , ebay give the
buyer 4 times the shipping cost ? if the buyer and seller are from germany the
seller can send all 4 auctions in one packaging box for 6.90 euro up to 30 kilo
.
my last 2 items what i buy in ebay with one seller have cost me 17 euro shipping
, seller dont like to change the invois ?
regards r
|
So the more upstanding sellers will just refund any significant difference after
they post. That's what I would do; bid high on shipping, give back the unused
portion.
Brian
|
It's a shame that PayPal keeps 30 cents of any refund, regardless of the amount
refunded. For larger orders it's OK, but for small orders? You could get around
it by, instead of refunding, sending "personal payments" back to the buyer; but
Paypal gets fussy about people sending a lot of "personal payments"
-Ash
|
You could add a few freebies
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Daave | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| That must be different in different countries, if I click on the original payment
from a buyer, I can send a refund back for any amount, they refund a proportionate
amount from the fee I paid to receive and from the amount I actually ended up
with... There isn't a 30cent/pence difference as they calculate that as the
first part of the payment and refund from the last part of the figure... If that
makes any sense?
| | It's a shame that PayPal keeps 30 cents of any refund, regardless of the amount
-Ash
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb314137 | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 19:18 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Daave writes:
| | That must be different in different countries, if I click on the original payment
from a buyer, I can send a refund back for any amount, they refund a proportionate
amount from the fee I paid to receive and from the amount I actually ended up
with... There isn't a 30cent/pence difference as they calculate that as the
first part of the payment and refund from the last part of the figure... If that
makes any sense?
|
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/Marketing/bizui/SendRefund-outside
When you issue a full refund, your original transaction fee is credited back
to you minus a thirty cent processing fee. When issuing partial refunds, a portion
of the fee is returned to you.
I think that they just take it from your funds and keep their mouth shut. IE
for every commercial transaction, paypal will take 30 cents, not matter what
if you refund, keep, cancel, or whatever. They won't give it back.
| |
| | It's a shame that PayPal keeps 30 cents of any refund, regardless of the amount
-Ash
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | TheBrickGuys | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 11:01 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I could for example order 200 mini-figs of which only one lot shows the weight
and then pay the price of 2-3€ for shipment, whereas the seller will pay a multitude
of that.
|
One easy way around that is for BL to have all mini-figs that do not have the
weight verified yet to be given a generic weight (until the true weight is supplied).
Most mini-figs weigh close enough to the same that a generic weight should work
just fine. This would at least help with mini-figs which is a big percentage
of items with missing weights.
Jim
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 09:15 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | tiger24 | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 09:52 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Thanks Thomas,
(and of course thanks admin, too)
for your great work for all profi sellers in Germany.
If you need any help,
please, let us know.
Regards,
Ludger & Margret
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 09:54 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I'm curious about this, having lived in Berlin before. Was this a consumer protection
pushed by people that had gotten scammed or was is pushed by the business community
that focuses more on physical shops to better compete against internet sales?
Thanks,
Ken
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 18:30 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:
| | I'm curious about this, having lived in Berlin before. Was this a consumer protection
pushed by people that had gotten scammed or was is pushed by the business community
that focuses more on physical shops to better compete against internet sales?
|
It's a reaction to the increasing issues of fraudulent websites (looking
like informational pages only) that make you submit personal data without clearly
showing that you sign a contract and will be charged remarkable fees afterwards
- these are called "Abofalle" in German.
Basically they make you enter a contract with periodic fees without actually
getting it, the important details are somewhere in the fineprint only. They work
following the "register here to get the information you're looking for" scheme...
First time you realize it when you get a invoice by snail mail - AFTER the 14
days period you have to cancel such an online contract according to DSR (distance
selling regulation / Distance Selling Act - "Fernabsatzgesetz" in German)
This issue is avoided with this button solution since contracts made online without
such a button will be refuted very easily in the future - and those having the
button should make EVERY user aware to watch out for contractual details at least.
Jan
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:23 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 99 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:31 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I don't see why bricklink cannot have a "quote me" button instead of an order
button. I fill up my cart, click "quote me" and the seller has to supply all
details of fees and postage. Then I can either accept the quote and purchase,
or deny it and no contract is formed. So no contract is formed until the seller
has supplied exact price details, and the buyer agrees with them.
That way, there would be no nasty surprises, no need for negative feedback if
a buyer decides he doesn't want to pay all the additional fees the seller adds
on, and the seller isn't charged for the order if it doesn't go through.
|
I don't know if that would satisfy the German issue in hand but I have suggested
this in the past. Some selllers do not want to take the time to do this but it
could be an optional setting for sellers to adopt. I would very much like that
option.
Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | crazybirdman | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:01 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| ditto, that would greatly help with the people that change their mind after they
see the shipping price, or think the shipping is included.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:10 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, crazybirdman writes:
| | ditto, that would greatly help with the people that change their mind after they
see the shipping price, or think the shipping is included.
|
Which is another technicality. Strictly speaking, under the laws of some states,
it should be more explicit within the system that delivery is not included in
the price
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stone_Goblin | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 15:32 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, crazybirdman writes:
| | ditto, that would greatly help with the people that change their mind after they
see the shipping price, or think the shipping is included.
|
Which is another technicality. Strictly speaking, under the laws of some states,
it should be more explicit within the system that delivery is not included in
the price
|
Why would anybody assume free shipping, though?
John @ LibertyBRICK
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 16:10 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Stone_Goblin writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, crazybirdman writes:
| | ditto, that would greatly help with the people that change their mind after they
see the shipping price, or think the shipping is included.
|
Which is another technicality. Strictly speaking, under the laws of some states,
it should be more explicit within the system that delivery is not included in
the price
|
Why would anybody assume free shipping, though?
John @ LibertyBRICK
|
because free shipping is the norm for millions of people who order from sites
such as amazon
but thats not the point, the point is that its a technicality in law, not a technicality
in consumer assumption
Gareth
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stone_Goblin | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 16:16 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Stone_Goblin writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, crazybirdman writes:
| | ditto, that would greatly help with the people that change their mind after they
see the shipping price, or think the shipping is included.
|
Which is another technicality. Strictly speaking, under the laws of some states,
it should be more explicit within the system that delivery is not included in
the price
|
Why would anybody assume free shipping, though?
John @ LibertyBRICK
|
because free shipping is the norm for millions of people who order from sites
such as amazon
but thats not the point, the point is that its a technicality in law, not a technicality
in consumer assumption
Gareth
|
Apparently I'm not in the norm as when I frequent Amazon it shows shipping costs
for items (unless of course it explicitly states a super saver shipping option
in which case I know how I'm qualifying for it).
John
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | krisz590 | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:17 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I don't see why bricklink cannot have a "quote me" button instead of an order
button. I fill up my cart, click "quote me" and the seller has to supply all
details of fees and postage. Then I can either accept the quote and purchase,
or deny it and no contract is formed. So no contract is formed until the seller
has supplied exact price details, and the buyer agrees with them.
That way, there would be no nasty surprises, no need for negative feedback if
a buyer decides he doesn't want to pay all the additional fees the seller adds
on, and the seller isn't charged for the order if it doesn't go through.
|
I don't know if that would satisfy the German issue in hand but I have suggested
this in the past. Some selllers do not want to take the time to do this but it
could be an optional setting for sellers to adopt. I would very much like that
option.
Robert
|
I am not so sure that this would work in the UK, it could increase shipping costs
for buyers as sellers would tend to estimate prices on the high side, especially
as to regarding the Royal Mail large letter rate which is very difficult to visualize
until the order has been assembled. I like many other sellers charge shipping
at actual cost plus a nominal fee for packaging. I would be very loath to spend
a lot of time pulling orders merely for a quote,
James.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | cptnruthless | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:31 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I don't see why bricklink cannot have a "quote me" button instead of an order
button. I fill up my cart, click "quote me" and the seller has to supply all
details of fees and postage. Then I can either accept the quote and purchase,
or deny it and no contract is formed. So no contract is formed until the seller
has supplied exact price details, and the buyer agrees with them.
That way, there would be no nasty surprises, no need for negative feedback if
a buyer decides he doesn't want to pay all the additional fees the seller adds
on, and the seller isn't charged for the order if it doesn't go through.
|
Actually, you can kinda do this already.
Go to a store, place items in the cart. Then, right click the "view cart" and
open it up in a new tab. If you send that URL to the seller, they can see the
items and weight and price and everything- and give you a detailed quote of shipping
costs.
However, many sellers won't respond since usually quotes have very little return
on time spent into orders.
-Ruth
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:38 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cptnruthless writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I don't see why bricklink cannot have a "quote me" button instead of an order
button. I fill up my cart, click "quote me" and the seller has to supply all
details of fees and postage. Then I can either accept the quote and purchase,
or deny it and no contract is formed. So no contract is formed until the seller
has supplied exact price details, and the buyer agrees with them.
That way, there would be no nasty surprises, no need for negative feedback if
a buyer decides he doesn't want to pay all the additional fees the seller adds
on, and the seller isn't charged for the order if it doesn't go through.
|
Actually, you can kinda do this already.
Go to a store, place items in the cart. Then, right click the "view cart" and
open it up in a new tab. If you send that URL to the seller, they can see the
items and weight and price and everything- and give you a detailed quote of shipping
costs.
However, many sellers won't respond since usually quotes have very little return
on time spent into orders.
-Ruth
|
We always respond to those. 90% result in orders for us (probably becuase the
other sellers don't respond  ). The problem is that you and I know how to do
that, less experienced buyers do not and send a manual list of items that is
then too time consuming to figure out. I suppose we could put something in our
splash page to instruct buyers on this (when the problems with that are sorted).
Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | kjw010 | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 16:25 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, cptnruthless writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I don't see why bricklink cannot have a "quote me" button instead of an order
button. I fill up my cart, click "quote me" and the seller has to supply all
details of fees and postage. Then I can either accept the quote and purchase,
or deny it and no contract is formed. So no contract is formed until the seller
has supplied exact price details, and the buyer agrees with them.
That way, there would be no nasty surprises, no need for negative feedback if
a buyer decides he doesn't want to pay all the additional fees the seller adds
on, and the seller isn't charged for the order if it doesn't go through.
|
Actually, you can kinda do this already.
Go to a store, place items in the cart. Then, right click the "view cart" and
open it up in a new tab. If you send that URL to the seller, they can see the
items and weight and price and everything- and give you a detailed quote of shipping
costs.
However, many sellers won't respond since usually quotes have very little return
on time spent into orders.
-Ruth
|
We always respond to those. 90% result in orders for us (probably becuase the
other sellers don't respond ). The problem is that you and I know how to do
that, less experienced buyers do not and send a manual list of items that is
then too time consuming to figure out. I suppose we could put something in our
splash page to instruct buyers on this (when the problems with that are sorted).
Robert
|
Communication is everything. No respone = least favourite in my books!
Kristel
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | DadsAFOL | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:06 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cptnruthless writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | I don't see why bricklink cannot have a "quote me" button instead of an order
button. I fill up my cart, click "quote me" and the seller has to supply all
details of fees and postage. Then I can either accept the quote and purchase,
or deny it and no contract is formed. So no contract is formed until the seller
has supplied exact price details, and the buyer agrees with them.
That way, there would be no nasty surprises, no need for negative feedback if
a buyer decides he doesn't want to pay all the additional fees the seller adds
on, and the seller isn't charged for the order if it doesn't go through.
|
Actually, you can kinda do this already.
Go to a store, place items in the cart. Then, right click the "view cart" and
open it up in a new tab. If you send that URL to the seller, they can see the
items and weight and price and everything- and give you a detailed quote of shipping
costs.
However, many sellers won't respond since usually quotes have very little return
on time spent into orders.
-Ruth
|
All buyers are welcome to use our shipping calculator to get an estimate from
the US either domestic or international. Just open our store in another browser
window and follow the instructions to copy the cart summary.
-Jason
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Oct 24, 2015 10:44 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Oct 24, 2015 10:45 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | Author: | Thalain | | Posted: | Aug 10, 2012 14:11 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I think this would be a really great option and relatively easy to implement.
Every seller / store could decide whether they want the binding contract to occur
directly with the initial order (current BL settings) or with the invoice acceptance
(option setting). German professional sellers would of course be forced to use
the new option to comply with the law.
It doesn't change much in the BL ordering flow to do this:
Current flow:
1/ Buyer fills and submits cart
2/ Buyer checks out, completing the order
3/ Seller pre-processes and invoices final amount including shipping and fees.
4/ (nothing here)
5/ Buyer pays
6-10/ Pulling, packing, shipping, delivery, feedback.
Option flow:
1/ Buyer fills and submits cart
2/ Buyer checks out, CREATING A QUOTE REQUEST
3/ Seller pre-processes and invoices final amount including shipping and fees.
4/ BUYER SUBMITS FINAL ORDER
5/ Buyer pays
6-10/ Pulling, packing, shipping, delivery, feedback.
The only major difference is that in the option, both buyer and seller still
have the option to cancel the deal without penalty between steps 2 and 4.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Balokki | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 09:08 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Thalain writes:
| | I think this would be a really great option and relatively easy to implement.
Every seller / store could decide whether they want the binding contract to occur
directly with the initial order (current BL settings) or with the invoice acceptance
(option setting). German professional sellers would of course be forced to use
the new option to comply with the law.
It doesn't change much in the BL ordering flow to do this:
Current flow:
1/ Buyer fills and submits cart
2/ Buyer checks out, completing the order
3/ Seller pre-processes and invoices final amount including shipping and fees.
4/ (nothing here)
5/ Buyer pays
6-10/ Pulling, packing, shipping, delivery, feedback.
Option flow:
1/ Buyer fills and submits cart
2/ Buyer checks out, CREATING A QUOTE REQUEST
3/ Seller pre-processes and invoices final amount including shipping and fees.
4/ BUYER SUBMITS FINAL ORDER
5/ Buyer pays
6-10/ Pulling, packing, shipping, delivery, feedback.
The only major difference is that in the option, both buyer and seller still
have the option to cancel the deal without penalty between steps 2 and 4.
|
I totally like this solution! I think that the current system of BL is unfair
for the buyer: you can't force someone to confirm an order without knowing
the real amount he has to pay!
They can put a link in the invoice to confirm the order, something like this:
To confirm your order, click on the following link:
xxxx://www.bricklink.com/?act=21121212=03&uid=121212121&
(you may need to cut and paste the link into your web browser)
Roberto
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | sikennedy | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 11:39 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| This is a very good idea.
As it stands in uk law, you cannot bind someone into a contract without them
knowing the total amount, ie you can't make someone agree to buy when they
don't know shipping cost, it's totally unfair in reality, especially
to first time buyers and its already not an easy website to buy stuff on, you
can't then try to bind people in to a contract when they are blind to shipping
cost.
This solution is simple and can't be that hard to implement, and simple and
immediate iswhat we need until BL 2 comes along in my view. Maybe make it EU
wide? I'm pretty certain EU law for consumer protection is the same or similar.
In Suggestions, Thalain writes:
| | I think this would be a really great option and relatively easy to implement.
Every seller / store could decide whether they want the binding contract to occur
directly with the initial order (current BL settings) or with the invoice acceptance
(option setting). German professional sellers would of course be forced to use
the new option to comply with the law.
It doesn't change much in the BL ordering flow to do this:
Current flow:
1/ Buyer fills and submits cart
2/ Buyer checks out, completing the order
3/ Seller pre-processes and invoices final amount including shipping and fees.
4/ (nothing here)
5/ Buyer pays
6-10/ Pulling, packing, shipping, delivery, feedback.
Option flow:
1/ Buyer fills and submits cart
2/ Buyer checks out, CREATING A QUOTE REQUEST
3/ Seller pre-processes and invoices final amount including shipping and fees.
4/ BUYER SUBMITS FINAL ORDER
5/ Buyer pays
6-10/ Pulling, packing, shipping, delivery, feedback.
The only major difference is that in the option, both buyer and seller still
have the option to cancel the deal without penalty between steps 2 and 4.
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| | | | | Author: | Beacharoni | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 82 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| This "button solution" was originally aimed at gamer sites, and others who rope
unsuspecting on-line consumers into long-term subscriptions without them knowing
it. It was never intended to be applied to sites like Bricklink. Still, a one-size-fits-all
typical bureaucratic approach always takes unintended victims along with it.
That's where Bricklink comes in, as well as thousands of other on-line e-commerce
sites. The law is in effect in Germany and is likely to be enacted throughout
the EU in a year or so. That is, unless there are major changes in the structure
of the EU. The biggest problem has arisen from the guy at the end of the table
who finally raised his hand, just before everyone in the Bundestag was ready
to vote on this over-reaching law, and said, "hey, why don't we throw in shipping
and handling as well". That is the killer, because it requires foretelling the
future, always a tough charge no matter how well-written the law (and this one
is anything but and is filled with nothing but grey area from start to finish).
In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
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| | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:08 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Beacharoni writes:
| | This "button solution" was originally aimed at gamer sites, and others who rope
unsuspecting on-line consumers into long-term subscriptions without them knowing
it.
|
That isnt so different to what some sellers do on here anyway
| | That's where Bricklink comes in, as well as thousands of other on-line e-commerce
sites. The law is in effect in Germany and is likely to be enacted throughout
the EU in a year or so. That is, unless there are major changes in the structure
of the EU. The biggest problem has arisen from the guy at the end of the table
who finally raised his hand, just before everyone in the Bundestag was ready
to vote on this over-reaching law, and said, "hey, why don't we throw in shipping
and handling as well". That is the killer, because it requires foretelling the
future, always a tough charge no matter how well-written the law (and this one
is anything but and is filled with nothing but grey area from start to finish).
|
But, its irrelevant, because, from what Ive seen, the button solution merely
answers a question... so what is the question?
Q: existing consumer protection / price indication laws that most stand alone
websites already comply with as do most sellers on bricklink.
Thus, the button is an easy compliance technique. You have the button and you
dont tick the rest of the boxes, have a fine... you dont have a button, have
a fine... you have the button and tick all the boxes, excellent, well done, no
fine for you
That guy at the end of the table didnt make anything worse, because apart from
the text of the button which bricklink needs to address to allow total compliance
of its sellers, most pro sellers are already complying with the spirit of the
law. Thus, the only challenge to most e-commerce providers is to tweak some text,
because most of those `innocent bystanders` already fully comply apart from some
words here and there. Bricklink and similar sites are only falling short because
of the culture of pick/weigh/invoice, which is itself a greater limiter of growth
than any minor tweak of law.
Gareth
| | In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
|
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| | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:33 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
|
It is good to come up with it, Admin came up with it a day or 2 ago, and it has
been mentioned a few times in the past...
I always thought: this is complicated, the variaty of parts, the missing weights,
the 'limits' in every country etc... Reki made some good points, but they can
be 'lifted' quite easely.
1. every item on BL should have it's weight: surely a lot of people are verifying
and submitting weights, I 'verified' nearly 5000 in the mean while and most are
pretty accurate (let's not get picky on a 0.50 or a 1 gram difference). It would
be easy to implement any 'newly submitted' item should get it's 'weight' **before**
it is added to the catalog, bummer for those who would like to 'list' fast, if
they wanna do it fast, they gonna have to make an effort (& weights would need
to be able to be submitted in 'pending' status by 'any' member).
2. every item would need a selection box available: 'envelope' or 'box' shipping.
Every country has it's limitations, some 3cm, some 3.50cm, some 5cm, sellers
would need to 'chose' the limit for each item (not hard to implement IMHO)
3. added fees:
handling fees: easy: value wise, lot wise or quantity wise: 3,4,5 options, each
seller takes 1 option, sets 2 or 3 limits (within the options), period.
paypal: according to 'PP rules': seller choice to implement or not (but let's
use a fixed ratio anyway for those who want to use it), based on sellers location,
very easy to implement.
Other fees: none that I can think of...
4. each seller would need a maximum of 30 possibilities for shipping (30 would
more or less do the trick I think) and would need to be able to 'add' weight
for shippingmaterial (predifined by seller). The '30' possibilites would be a
calculation based on seetings by seller (envelope or box), packing material (predifined
by seller based on weight and size of order and the 'limits' he stated for each
item) and BL weights (quite accurate).
5. an automated checkout/payment on orders (depending on payment method selected
and all predefined settings ).
It would need a lot of 'refining' surely, but it is do-able, probably needs a
lot of software and BL investment (and testing), but in the long run it could
work out good. Dadafol is doing it (don't know how, but I'm willing to test such
a setting ), don't see why it could not be working in other stores (need to
mention Dadsafol doesn't list large sets though, probably the 'pain' point, don't
see major problems with figs or parts).
Eric
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:44 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
|
It is good to come up with it, Admin came up with it a day or 2 ago, and it has
been mentioned a few times in the past...
I always thought: this is complicated, the variaty of parts, the missing weights,
the 'limits' in every country etc... Reki made some good points, but they can
be 'lifted' quite easely.
1. every item on BL should have it's weight: surely a lot of people are verifying
and submitting weights, I 'verified' nearly 5000 in the mean while and most are
pretty accurate (let's not get picky on a 0.50 or a 1 gram difference). It would
be easy to implement any 'newly submitted' item should get it's 'weight' **before**
it is added to the catalog, bummer for those who would like to 'list' fast, if
they wanna do it fast, they gonna have to make an effort (& weights would need
to be able to be submitted in 'pending' status by 'any' member).
2. every item would need a selection box available: 'envelope' or 'box' shipping.
Every country has it's limitations, some 3cm, some 3.50cm, some 5cm, sellers
would need to 'chose' the limit for each item (not hard to implement IMHO)
3. added fees:
handling fees: easy: value wise, lot wise or quantity wise: 3,4,5 options, each
seller takes 1 option, sets 2 or 3 limits (within the options), period.
paypal: according to 'PP rules': seller choice to implement or not (but let's
use a fixed ratio anyway for those who want to use it), based on sellers location,
very easy to implement.
Other fees: none that I can think of...
|
correction: sales taxes if applied by 'state' or 'region'(forgot about local
taxes in some USA states)
| |
4. each seller would need a maximum of 30 possibilities for shipping (30 would
more or less do the trick I think) and would need to be able to 'add' weight
for shippingmaterial (predifined by seller). The '30' possibilites would be a
calculation based on seetings by seller (envelope or box), packing material (predifined
by seller based on weight and size of order and the 'limits' he stated for each
item) and BL weights (quite accurate).
5. an automated checkout/payment on orders (depending on payment method selected
and all predefined settings ).
It would need a lot of 'refining' surely, but it is do-able, probably needs a
lot of software and BL investment (and testing), but in the long run it could
work out good. Dadafol is doing it (don't know how, but I'm willing to test such
a setting ), don't see why it could not be working in other stores (need to
mention Dadsafol doesn't list large sets though, probably the 'pain' point, don't
see major problems with figs or parts).
Eric
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | kzinti | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 13:56 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| You'd also need to have a setting for a part based upon the size of the part.
Some parts are light, but flat, like baseplates and can only fit in a certain
size flat box. Others, like 1x1 plates, can fit thousands in a 4x4x4 box. Something
to think about too.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 14:05 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | You'd also need to have a setting for a part based upon the size of the part.
Some parts are light, but flat, like baseplates and can only fit in a certain
size flat box. Others, like 1x1 plates, can fit thousands in a 4x4x4 box. Something
to think about too.
|
That's the reason any item would need a seperate selectable box for 'envelope'
or 'box'.
And in fact there should be a double entry for 'envelope': 'flatrate' (small
stickersheets for example) and 'thickrate' (depending on local regulations)
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | starbeanie | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 14:22 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | You'd also need to have a setting for a part based upon the size of the part.
Some parts are light, but flat, like baseplates and can only fit in a certain
size flat box. Others, like 1x1 plates, can fit thousands in a 4x4x4 box. Something
to think about too.
|
That's the reason any item would need a seperate selectable box for 'envelope'
or 'box'.
And in fact there should be a double entry for 'envelope': 'flatrate' (small
stickersheets for example) and 'thickrate' (depending on local regulations)
|
Except have enough of an item that's "envelope" and it can become "box".
Bret
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 14:36 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, starbeanie writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | You'd also need to have a setting for a part based upon the size of the part.
Some parts are light, but flat, like baseplates and can only fit in a certain
size flat box. Others, like 1x1 plates, can fit thousands in a 4x4x4 box. Something
to think about too.
|
That's the reason any item would need a seperate selectable box for 'envelope'
or 'box'.
And in fact there should be a double entry for 'envelope': 'flatrate' (small
stickersheets for example) and 'thickrate' (depending on local regulations)
|
Except have enough of an item that's "envelope" and it can become "box".
Bret
|
If carts/shippingoptions are weight based, and sellers have the option to set
limits for each, problem is solved... so buy 20 'envelope' items with 4 grams
= envelope up to 100 grams, buy 70= 280 grams= 350 grams boxed shipment (again
flexible, depending on size chose by seller), personally, I could still ship
in envelope if all parts selected are 'envelope' type, if 1 of them is 'box'
type, then box it will be
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 11:56 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, starbeanie writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | You'd also need to have a setting for a part based upon the size of the part.
Some parts are light, but flat, like baseplates and can only fit in a certain
size flat box. Others, like 1x1 plates, can fit thousands in a 4x4x4 box. Something
to think about too.
|
That's the reason any item would need a seperate selectable box for 'envelope'
or 'box'.
And in fact there should be a double entry for 'envelope': 'flatrate' (small
stickersheets for example) and 'thickrate' (depending on local regulations)
|
Except have enough of an item that's "envelope" and it can become "box".
Bret
|
If carts/shippingoptions are weight based, and sellers have the option to set
limits for each, problem is solved... so buy 20 'envelope' items with 4 grams
= envelope up to 100 grams, buy 70= 280 grams= 350 grams boxed shipment (again
flexible, depending on size chose by seller), personally, I could still ship
in envelope if all parts selected are 'envelope' type, if 1 of them is 'box'
type, then box it will be
|
Any workable system needs to include reliable WEIGHT and SIZE settings. An automated
guess based on any of the other two can not work properly.
I do not think it is workable for Bricklink to keep all the different postal
restrictions up to date for all possible countries. A system where sellers get
to set their size-weight limits and packaging size/weights would be needed.
For example, in the Netherlands, (using PostNL) we have a simple system.
- Anything smaller than 38,0 x 26,5 x 3,2 cm AND lighter than 2 kg is an envelope/letterboxmail,
anything larger or heavier is a box/parcel.
- The maximum size for international orders is 100 x 50 x 50 cm AND 20 KG. For
national orders the maximum size is 176 x 78 x 58 cm AND 30 kg.
So if I order a lot of small items the system needs to know
- is the total weight highter than 2 kg
- is the total volume (depending on packaging...) larger than 38,0 x 26,5 x 3,2
cm minus the packaging margin (say 5 mm on all sides) set by the seller.
Size alone could make the difference between 0,64 or 6,75 in cost for a lightweight
national shipment. For international shipments the price differences are even
larger.
Currently a single Duplo 2x4 brick can be send as letterboxmail in a bubble envelope
without problem. Setting the 5 mm margin (that I use in this example) would be
a safe choice for the seller, but it will make this singe brick a more expensive
parcel shipment.
Calculating the total volume of all the items will be a nightmare, because it
needs to include packaging and good practices like separation of lots in zip
lock bags or separation of used and new items instead of stacking anything together
as close as possible.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 12:01 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, WoutR writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, starbeanie writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
| | You'd also need to have a setting for a part based upon the size of the part.
Some parts are light, but flat, like baseplates and can only fit in a certain
size flat box. Others, like 1x1 plates, can fit thousands in a 4x4x4 box. Something
to think about too.
|
That's the reason any item would need a seperate selectable box for 'envelope'
or 'box'.
And in fact there should be a double entry for 'envelope': 'flatrate' (small
stickersheets for example) and 'thickrate' (depending on local regulations)
|
Except have enough of an item that's "envelope" and it can become "box".
Bret
|
If carts/shippingoptions are weight based, and sellers have the option to set
limits for each, problem is solved... so buy 20 'envelope' items with 4 grams
= envelope up to 100 grams, buy 70= 280 grams= 350 grams boxed shipment (again
flexible, depending on size chose by seller), personally, I could still ship
in envelope if all parts selected are 'envelope' type, if 1 of them is 'box'
type, then box it will be
|
Any workable system needs to include reliable WEIGHT and SIZE settings. An automated
guess based on any of the other two can not work properly.
I do not think it is workable for Bricklink to keep all the different postal
restrictions up to date for all possible countries. A system where sellers get
to set their size-weight limits and packaging size/weights would be needed.
For example, in the Netherlands, (using PostNL) we have a simple system.
- Anything smaller than 38,0 x 26,5 x 3,2 cm AND lighter than 2 kg is an envelope/letterboxmail,
anything larger or heavier is a box/parcel.
- The maximum size for international orders is 100 x 50 x 50 cm AND 20 KG. For
national orders the maximum size is 176 x 78 x 58 cm AND 30 kg.
So if I order a lot of small items the system needs to know
- is the total weight highter than 2 kg
- is the total volume (depending on packaging...) larger than 38,0 x 26,5 x 3,2
cm minus the packaging margin (say 5 mm on all sides) set by the seller.
Size alone could make the difference between 0,64 or 6,75 in cost for a lightweight
national shipment. For international shipments the price differences are even
larger.
Currently a single Duplo 2x4 brick can be send as letterboxmail in a bubble envelope
without problem. Setting the 5 mm margin (that I use in this example) would be
a safe choice for the seller, but it will make this singe brick a more expensive
parcel shipment.
Calculating the total volume of all the items will be a nightmare, because it
needs to include packaging and good practices like separation of lots in zip
lock bags or separation of used and new items instead of stacking anything together
as close as possible.
|
---
Just noticed I am replying to a very old thread that has just been brought back
to life 
---
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 12:19 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | steekstra | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 12:33 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | elias3 | | Posted: | Aug 8, 2012 14:14 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Thanks Thomas for your helpfull explanation!
Stefaan
In Suggestions, franz76906 writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | TASTER | | Posted: | Aug 9, 2012 01:40 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Thanks for your work and your time!
If you need any help, we will try our best to assist you!
Vanessa and Tobias
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Steineflut | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 07:30 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hi everyone,
stumbled across this by accident. However, the law is still existent Any
news on that issue?
Is the new development team aware?
Regards,
Tom
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | eileenkeeney | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 13:05 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Munich_Bricks writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
|
Does Lego, when shopping on their web page, meet the requirements?
I notice that my invoices always just have an entry for my PAB selections, but
does not indicate what is in my PAB bag.
I have never shopped on the German Lego site.
It will be interesting to see how LEGO implements this.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 13:15 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
| | In Suggestions, Munich_Bricks writes:
| | Hi everybody,
as mentioned in this message http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=656715
admin is working on a solution to fulfill the requirements of a new German law
- called in short "Button Solution".
As I'm coordinating these requirements and their implementation on behalf of
the German sellers, I'll try to explain this feature within this thread.
(I'm posting this under 'suggestions', but in fact these things are not really
to be discussed if and how they are to be implemented as they are defined by
law! I just want to explain these requirements and the approach we (the German
sellers) have developed right now to solve these requirements as good as possible.
Nethertheless -especially when looking to the point "pre-calculated shipping
costs"- everybody is invited to develop this further...)
At the beginning:
These requirements are GERMAN law. We intend to implememt these changes at first
for orders between German professional sellers (about 60) and German buyers ONLY.
All other users and orders should not be affected!
WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
Timeframe:
There is no schedule of steps and dates of implementation yet.
THE REQUIREMENTS:
The main requirements of this new law are
1) BUTTON:
AT THE VERY END of the ordering process there must be a button (like our existing
'Complete Purchase' with one of 6 pre-defined GERMAN TEXTs. We have decided to
name this button 'Kostenpflichtig bestellen'.
2) SUMMARY OF ORDERED ITEMS:
DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF THIS BUTTON the buyer must see "all ordered items with their
prices per item and their essential attributes".
Regarding the fact that some orders consist of hundreds of different lots we
suggested to show a summary by item type (in German!) like
nnn (lots) of different instructions ...total mmm pieces (items) ....NNN,NN Eur
dto. for sets, parts, minifigs etc
3) SHIPPING COSTS:
Additionally to the above mentioned summary the seller must SHOW the SHIPPING
COSTS BEFORE CHECKOUT!
This is the main issue seeing the existing BL system, but fortunately we need
this at first only for domestic orders and the German Post tariffs system isn't
that complicated; so we intend to implement a table for each seller where he
can enter his shipping costs depending on weight and order value.
These tables may be implemented for all sellers -may be for domestic orders only-,
but let's first get some experience within this new feature for Germans.
(I'll add a detailed explanation and example of this table later - based on the
actual domestic shipping costs of our shop.)
I hope these explanations help a bit to understand what is going on when talking
about "Button Solution".
Kind regards
Thomas (Co-owner of Munich-Bricks)
|
Does Lego, when shopping on their web page, meet the requirements?
I notice that my invoices always just have an entry for my PAB selections, but
does not indicate what is in my PAB bag.
I have never shopped on the German Lego site.
It will be interesting to see how LEGO implements this.
|
Doen't have your PAB selection a specific number, which is linked to a list
of items (teh a total weight) ?
Furthermore, they probably have a specific software to deal with this kind of
question. And they probably have paid someone to establish some "standard" cost
(with the help of every country office).
And finally, TLC choice of item in their PAB isn't as wide as what is possible
here...
my 2 cents
Anyway they don't have the same problem; they have
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | bb200521 | | Posted: | Jan 5, 2014 13:29 | | Subject: | Re: Button Solution (Requirements by German Law) | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Munich_Bricks writes:
| | WHY: one requirement is to have GERMAN texts -which should not be helpful for
others )
|
Just wandering : are this requirement really enforceable, since the site is from
outside EU and to create an account, you have to accept terms that are in English
(hence that imply you should be skilled enough in English to settle a deal with
the site at least).
And wouldn't it be more simple to change BL's terms, since the rule 4
(and maybe 5) are hardly compatible with the rule 13 in the EU context ? And
enforcing the rule 4 is almost not legal here in Europe ?
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|
Germany, Bayern
United Kingdom, England
USA, Vermont
Netherlands, Friesland
Belgium, Brussels
Spain, Andalucia Ceuta i Melilla
Australia, Queensland
Switzerland, Vaud
France, Grand Est