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| | | Author: | bagelboybugle  | | Posted: | Nov 17, 2011 19:25 | | Subject: | Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 480 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design. For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
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| | | | | Author: | Timothy_Smith | | Posted: | Nov 17, 2011 19:41 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 108 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
Ain't happenin'. Whether or not it's a good idea.
Maybe let sellers opt for such a designation, but as you say many won't.
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| | | | | Author: | Made_In_Bricks | | Posted: | Nov 17, 2011 20:16 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Not to give political statements, but maybe you should try to put into office
people that will abolish that VAT taxes that hammer down Europe...
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| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Nov 17, 2011 21:56 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 88 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design. For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
For all the orders i have purchased through Bricklink, I must say that I am unable
to differentiate between any sellers who were "Pros" and which ones were "heavily
stocked amateur" I could not tell it from the timeliness of the service, or
the accuracy of the order, or the quality of the lego, shipping, etc.
If Bricklink were to allow some sellers to describe themselves as "Pros" then
wouldn't Bricklink also have to enforce a standard of business practice so that
buyers would know what made them different from an amateur? Actually Bricklink
does have a standard: the terms of service, and I am quite happy that it applies
to all Bricklink sellers. I don't want to encourage anyone to think that a "lower"
standard of service is acceptable.
I do want to see sellers improve their standards. But I think that should be
done by the market place. If people don't buy from unscrupulous or careless sellers
the standard will eventually improve.
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| | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Nov 17, 2011 22:06 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 98 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, calebfishn writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design. For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
For all the orders i have purchased through Bricklink, I must say that I am unable
to differentiate between any sellers who were "Pros" and which ones were "heavily
stocked amateur" I could not tell it from the timeliness of the service, or
the accuracy of the order, or the quality of the lego, shipping, etc.
If Bricklink were to allow some sellers to describe themselves as "Pros" then
wouldn't Bricklink also have to enforce a standard of business practice so that
buyers would know what made them different from an amateur? Actually Bricklink
does have a standard: the terms of service, and I am quite happy that it applies
to all Bricklink sellers. I don't want to encourage anyone to think that a "lower"
standard of service is acceptable.
I do want to see sellers improve their standards. But I think that should be
done by the market place. If people don't buy from unscrupulous or careless sellers
the standard will eventually improve.
|
I wonder what I am (other than a dirty old man)??? Why cannot a pro be a collector
and an amateur?
John P
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| | | | | Author: | CPgolfaddict | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 00:13 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I understand the reason why the difference can be important. But I just can't
think of a practical implementation.
Would a seller be forced to self-declare as to hobby vs. business? If yes, then
could a seller could simply switch back and forth as needed? Could I lose my
business or hobby status if I screw something up or sell to much or to little?
Or would there be some objective standard to determine hobby vs. business? If
yes then who determines the standard? Even if BL/Admin signed up for this,
we'd be going around and around on agreeing to a definition. If not BL/Admin
then we are talking legal status. Do we really want to get into matters of international
commerce law? AND We are not yet even talking about agreeing on the responsibilities
a business seller has and a hobby seller can avoid. Who defines that? Multiply
that by all the different seller/buyer country combinations that can exist.
I think we'd be starting down a slippery slope of various designations to maintain.
FYI... In the US, from a federal tax point of view, a small seller can essentially
chose between hobby and business. This only applies to the US tax and accounting
treatment of your income and expenses. There are good reasons for going either
way. e.g. My BL store IS my Lego hobby, but I treat it like a business tax wise.
In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design. For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
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| | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 01:53 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 81 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design. For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
Yes for the reasons you state but I struggle to see it working because of so
many different regulations in different countries meaning different things. Here
in EU you have a lot of protection buying from a business but in other countries?
Also your last sentence is the real problem here.. many people just "choose"
not to call their store a part time business for tax evasion reasons mostly.
i.e. in most EU countries you are a business for tax reasons if you buy things
solely for the purpose of resale (this is not disposing of personal assets).
You can be a "hobby business" because your hobby is the same as your business
but, ask any tax official, that does still make it a business and then you are
expected to behave as one in terms of advertising, trading terms, etc. Sadly,
I don't think Admin can fix this, it more requires a taxman getting interested
in the amount of undeclared trading going on here.
Robert
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| | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 03:35 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
[...]
A good idea, and the easiest way to implement would be:
Let sellers decide (voluntarily!) to activate a "registered business" checkbox
in the store settings (with a default flag for those with already activated VAT
settings) and those who prefer not to call themself a 'business seller' (regardless
of what they actually are) just don't activate it.
It's a postive attribute in means of buyer's rights (and seller's obligations
- whatever they may actually be in detail) and those who want to benefit from
this option will actively do so, while others should be free not to do it.
Jan
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| | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 03:43 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
[...]
A good idea, and the easiest way to implement would be:
Let sellers decide (voluntarily!) to activate a "registered business" checkbox
in the store settings (with a default flag for those with already activated VAT
settings) and those who prefer not to call themself a 'business seller' (regardless
of what they actually are) just don't activate it.
It's a postive attribute in means of buyer's rights (and seller's obligations
- whatever they may actually be in detail) and those who want to benefit from
this option will actively do so, while others should be free not to do it.
Jan
|
Good solution Jan, simple and effective! This way if someone that is obviously
a business tags themselves as not to avoid their obligations, this would not
work in their favour if reported to the relevent authorities so this should encourage
higher standards as Gareth suggested. This is effectively what other sites such
as eBay do to assist their sellers' compliance with regulations.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 04:32 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
[...]
A good idea, and the easiest way to implement would be:
Let sellers decide (voluntarily!) to activate a "registered business" checkbox
in the store settings (with a default flag for those with already activated VAT
settings) and those who prefer not to call themself a 'business seller' (regardless
of what they actually are) just don't activate it.
|
|
Absolutely, voluntarily is the key. the box should always be a choice, just like
the VAT one is (there are VAT registered sellers who do not use that function)
| | | | It's a postive attribute in means of buyer's rights (and seller's obligations
- whatever they may actually be in detail) and those who want to benefit from
this option will actively do so, while others should be free not to do it.
Jan
|
Good solution Jan, simple and effective! This way if someone that is obviously
a business tags themselves as not to avoid their obligations, this would not
work in their favour if reported to the relevent authorities so this should encourage
higher standards as Gareth suggested. This is effectively what other sites such
as eBay do to assist their sellers' compliance with regulations.
Robert
|
Personally I am not too interested in whether an individual seller is a hobbyist
or a business, I think some posts above make it more complex than necessary.
No one is asking bricklink to get involved in monitoring standards, nor is it
necessary. It is simply a case (like the VAT tool, which is infinately more complicated
than this) of allowing a seller to declare one or the other. Long term, that
could be made searchable as it is just another field to the stores database like
whether or not they ship to your country.
Also, some folks above miss one thing, this is not asking bricklink to get involved
with international commercial law, not at all, we have a VAT setting and I do
not think anyone would expect Admin to fill in their VAT returns.
A third of the membership (maybe more) here have some automatic rights governing
their relationship with sellers, the professional look of this website potentially
impacts upon all hobby sellers because there is no way to differentiate between
hobby and business. There are too many sellers who illegally try to dodge those
rights. This will simply like Jan states above allow consumers to make a better
informed choice, particularly in EU states where consumer law (depending on how
it is ratified) gives significant differences in legal consumer rights between
those buying from a business and those buying from a hobbyist.
Rob is correct in saying in another thread that the membership has outgrown its
pure AFOL community and includes many people who are just simply consumers buying
lego for their kids to build with. We have a responsibility for ourselves and
our own image to take this into account in the development of the sites features
and I think the time is near where there are enough members for whom rights of
recourse IF something goes wrong does matter beyond that of an AFOL's gentlemans
agreement.
Gareth
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 04:42 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
[...]
A good idea, and the easiest way to implement would be:
Let sellers decide (voluntarily!) to activate a "registered business" checkbox
in the store settings (with a default flag for those with already activated VAT
settings) and those who prefer not to call themself a 'business seller' (regardless
of what they actually are) just don't activate it.
|
|
Absolutely, voluntarily is the key. the box should always be a choice, just like
the VAT one is (there are VAT registered sellers who do not use that function)
| | | | It's a postive attribute in means of buyer's rights (and seller's obligations
- whatever they may actually be in detail) and those who want to benefit from
this option will actively do so, while others should be free not to do it.
Jan
|
Good solution Jan, simple and effective! This way if someone that is obviously
a business tags themselves as not to avoid their obligations, this would not
work in their favour if reported to the relevent authorities so this should encourage
higher standards as Gareth suggested. This is effectively what other sites such
as eBay do to assist their sellers' compliance with regulations.
Robert
|
Personally I am not too interested in whether an individual seller is a hobbyist
or a business, I think some posts above make it more complex than necessary.
No one is asking bricklink to get involved in monitoring standards, nor is it
necessary. It is simply a case (like the VAT tool, which is infinately more complicated
than this) of allowing a seller to declare one or the other. Long term, that
could be made searchable as it is just another field to the stores database like
whether or not they ship to your country.
Also, some folks above miss one thing, this is not asking bricklink to get involved
with international commercial law, not at all, we have a VAT setting and I do
not think anyone would expect Admin to fill in their VAT returns.
A third of the membership (maybe more) here have some automatic rights governing
their relationship with sellers, the professional look of this website potentially
impacts upon all hobby sellers because there is no way to differentiate between
hobby and business. There are too many sellers who illegally try to dodge those
rights. This will simply like Jan states above allow consumers to make a better
informed choice, particularly in EU states where consumer law (depending on how
it is ratified) gives significant differences in legal consumer rights between
those buying from a business and those buying from a hobbyist.
|
As an aside on this one, I've been reserching this a bit and I believe the ASA
(Advertising Standards Authority, similar bodies in other EU member states) declares
that a seller (deffinition does not bother with business status) is bound by
the Distance Selling Regualtions if they use a website/store for regularly selling
a product.
| | Rob is correct in saying in another thread that the membership has outgrown its
pure AFOL community and includes many people who are just simply consumers buying
lego for their kids to build with. We have a responsibility for ourselves and
our own image to take this into account in the development of the sites features
and I think the time is near where there are enough members for whom rights of
recourse IF something goes wrong does matter beyond that of an AFOL's gentlemans
agreement.
Gareth
|
Yep, that sums it up well enough for me!
Robert
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Lor | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2020 04:49 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 91 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
[...]
A good idea, and the easiest way to implement would be:
Let sellers decide (voluntarily!) to activate a "registered business" checkbox
in the store settings (with a default flag for those with already activated VAT
settings) and those who prefer not to call themself a 'business seller' (regardless
of what they actually are) just don't activate it.
It's a postive attribute in means of buyer's rights (and seller's obligations
- whatever they may actually be in detail) and those who want to benefit from
this option will actively do so, while others should be free not to do it.
Jan
|
Hi,
Voluntarily (a good idea). Vote for it!!
Adding, later:
- VAT check box is only for registered business?
What I understand for Invoice:
1) Business: check VAT box.
2) Particulars: no. But they'll have VAT number for Bricklink purposes (not
for local admins as it's a hobby).
Thank you.
|
|
|
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| | | | | Author: | DallasBricks | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 11:35 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Not a good idea. Red tape gets in the way of good business. KISS(keep it simple
stupid). Whether amature or pro - sell good product at a good Price and people
will beat your door down to get it.
David
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 11:57 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TheHawkins writes:
| | Not a good idea. Red tape gets in the way of good business. KISS(keep it simple
stupid). Whether amature or pro - sell good product at a good Price and people
will beat your door down to get it.
David
|
The suggestion is very simple. True, the legal requirements and the forum arguements
that led to it are not, but the suggestion itself is very very simple and will
help hundreds of buyers make an informed choice without any detriment to anyone.
There is no red tape in the suggestion or the implementation of it.
Simply a function to declare business / hobby: kept very simple
Gareth
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 12:12 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, TheHawkins writes:
| | Not a good idea. Red tape gets in the way of good business. KISS(keep it simple
stupid). Whether amature or pro - sell good product at a good Price and people
will beat your door down to get it.
David
|
The suggestion is very simple. True, the legal requirements and the forum arguements
that led to it are not, but the suggestion itself is very very simple and will
help hundreds of buyers make an informed choice without any detriment to anyone.
There is no red tape in the suggestion or the implementation of it.
Simply a function to declare business / hobby: kept very simple
Gareth
|
Back to my investigations about the ASA....
I think eBay and others implemented similar policies because businesses must
identify themselves as such in advertising (including web-sales). Note: this
is the case in UK, I have no idea on this one in other markets.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 12:21 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, TheHawkins writes:
| | Not a good idea. Red tape gets in the way of good business. KISS(keep it simple
stupid). Whether amature or pro - sell good product at a good Price and people
will beat your door down to get it.
David
|
The suggestion is very simple. True, the legal requirements and the forum arguements
that led to it are not, but the suggestion itself is very very simple and will
help hundreds of buyers make an informed choice without any detriment to anyone.
There is no red tape in the suggestion or the implementation of it.
Simply a function to declare business / hobby: kept very simple
Gareth
|
Back to my investigations about the ASA....
I think eBay and others implemented similar policies because businesses must
identify themselves as such in advertising (including web-sales). Note: this
is the case in UK, I have no idea on this one in other markets.
Robert
|
Indeed, the difficulty with bricklink is that the whole design is so good that
all stores generally look professional unless they really make a mess of their
splash or terms page. Thus currently it is easy (particularly for a non-AFOL
newby) to get the wrong impression of a store. My suggestion would make it easier
for buyers to identify business [or indeed hobby] sellers if they wanted to by
placing that identification all in the same place.
G
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 12:28 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | In Suggestions, TheHawkins writes:
| | Not a good idea. Red tape gets in the way of good business. KISS(keep it simple
stupid). Whether amature or pro - sell good product at a good Price and people
will beat your door down to get it.
David
|
The suggestion is very simple. True, the legal requirements and the forum arguements
that led to it are not, but the suggestion itself is very very simple and will
help hundreds of buyers make an informed choice without any detriment to anyone.
There is no red tape in the suggestion or the implementation of it.
Simply a function to declare business / hobby: kept very simple
Gareth
|
Back to my investigations about the ASA....
I think eBay and others implemented similar policies because businesses must
identify themselves as such in advertising (including web-sales). Note: this
is the case in UK, I have no idea on this one in other markets.
Robert
|
Indeed, the difficulty with bricklink is that the whole design is so good that
all stores generally look professional unless they really make a mess of their
splash or terms page. Thus currently it is easy (particularly for a non-AFOL
newby) to get the wrong impression of a store. My suggestion would make it easier
for buyers to identify business [or indeed hobby] sellers if they wanted to by
placing that identification all in the same place.
G
|
Yes, I'm with you completely, after we provide some information (by country?)
on what a business is... seriously, from the discussion I think the definition
MUST be diferent in some other countries, well even counties actually 
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 05:37 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
More on this, I think it is VERY important for buyers and sellers here.
Again, appologies that this is UK specific, perhaps knowledged members in other
markets can contribute to this thread and provide some links to relevent laws.
If in your country, consumer law is not so tight, please do not try to use that
fact to discredit this thread, BL is VERY international and all members trading
here need to be able do so within the laws of their land (buyers and sellers).
Now, I know it is not fashionable to praise eBay on this site but they do provide
a lot of good guidance to their members. Currently BrickLink covers itself by
saying its' members must comply with all local laws. No disrespect to Admin as
BL currently does not have any resources outside USA to reliably keep up to date
with legislation.
UK members - please read what eBay says about "if" you should advertise yourself
as a business seller or not, this is exactly in line with the link I provided
yesterday from the HMRC but this is more focussed on consumer rights obligations:-
and note below in particular:-
"It is a criminal offence in the UK for a business to falsely claim or create
the impression that it is not acting for purposes relating to its trade, business,
craft or profession or to falsely represent itself as a consumer"
..and that you are a business seller if you buy goods to resell (be honest folks!).
and BTW, it matters not where the website (i.e. BL) is hosted, it refers of course
to people trading from a UK base.
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/businesscentre/law-policies/listing-items.html
EU members - you will find similar information linking to your legislation on
your home eBay sites too I think.
I think Gareth's suggestion should definitely be included in the site upgrade.
It is important to help sellers who come here to understand the importance of
this to protect them from falling foul of legislation and of course to market
BL as a safe and reliable place to trade (as it generally is of course!).
As eBay have done, any links or "advice" in matters like this should have some
sort of disclaimer that says see a legal advisor, this is not legal advice! As
I've recommended before, I can praise the (free) help given by BusinessLink and
for any UK member in doubt, this would be my 1st point of call. These regulations
change frequently and of course I do not expect Admin to try to maintain that
by country.
HTH
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jimred | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 05:50 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Thanks for this Robert.
I may be a small and new store here on Bricklink, but I suspected this was the
case when I started selling here and so have been keeping records and been prepared
to comply with the distance selling regulations should the need arise (although
luckily not had a problem yet). It looks like this wasn't in vain.
It's nice to have the situation more clearly defined for those in the UK at least.
Maybe those who are required to trade as business in each country should form
their own interest groups and assist in providing a information/guidance page
for members.
James.
In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
More on this, I think it is VERY important for buyers and sellers here.
Again, appologies that this is UK specific, perhaps knowledged members in other
markets can contribute to this thread and provide some links to relevent laws.
If in your country, consumer law is not so tight, please do not try to use that
fact to discredit this thread, BL is VERY international and all members trading
here need to be able do so within the laws of their land (buyers and sellers).
Now, I know it is not fashionable to praise eBay on this site but they do provide
a lot of good guidance to their members. Currently BrickLink covers itself by
saying its' members must comply with all local laws. No disrespect to Admin as
BL currently does not have any resources outside USA to reliably keep up to date
with legislation.
UK members - please read what eBay says about "if" you should advertise yourself
as a business seller or not, this is exactly in line with the link I provided
yesterday from the HMRC but this is more focussed on consumer rights obligations:-
and note below in particular:-
"It is a criminal offence in the UK for a business to falsely claim or create
the impression that it is not acting for purposes relating to its trade, business,
craft or profession or to falsely represent itself as a consumer"
..and that you are a business seller if you buy goods to resell (be honest folks!).
and BTW, it matters not where the website (i.e. BL) is hosted, it refers of course
to people trading from a UK base.
http://pages.ebay.co.uk/businesscentre/law-policies/listing-items.html
EU members - you will find similar information linking to your legislation on
your home eBay sites too I think.
I think Gareth's suggestion should definitely be included in the site upgrade.
It is important to help sellers who come here to understand the importance of
this to protect them from falling foul of legislation and of course to market
BL as a safe and reliable place to trade (as it generally is of course!).
As eBay have done, any links or "advice" in matters like this should have some
sort of disclaimer that says see a legal advisor, this is not legal advice! As
I've recommended before, I can praise the (free) help given by BusinessLink and
for any UK member in doubt, this would be my 1st point of call. These regulations
change frequently and of course I do not expect Admin to try to maintain that
by country.
HTH
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 06:06 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jimred writes:
| |
Maybe those who are required to trade as business in each country should form
their own interest groups and assist in providing a information/guidance page
for members.
|
Thanks for your support James and that is a good idea, I would be happy to help
with that if Admin is in agreement.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | DallasBricks | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 23:30 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| You are correct in saying that this one change is simple. I will say however,
that a comprehensive implementation of this suggestion would not be totally straight
forward.
One pin prick only hurts a little, while one thousand will bleed you dry. It
is the layer upon layer of simple rules that kill. There are hundreds of simple
ideas that if implemented would create an overly complicated Bricklink. It is
better to do without many "simple" improvements and keep the free flow of ideas
and merchandise unencumbered. That freedom to function is what allows Bricklink,
or any system for that matter, to function so well. It is one thing to make
changes to the sites functionality, it is another to define, limit or create
unnecessary rules for operation.
If one store or buyer does something wrong, you don't create a rule to fix it.
You punish the one and let the market place continue to function uncluttered
by unnecessary rules.
Bricklink is not perfect. A free market place is not perfect. But each improvement
that defines or limits a store takes away from the simplicity that makes Bricklink
so great.
David
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| | | | | Author: | RobErNat | | Posted: | Nov 18, 2011 13:01 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Yes.
Easy to implement (choice given to sellers: professional or hobbyist).
Include in ID tag:
type:
buyer
or
seller(professional)
or
seller(hobbyist)
Good suggestion.
Eric
In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design. For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
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| | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 19, 2011 05:18 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 90 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design. For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
Here is a nice simple link that defines what is a business and what is not as
there is clearly a lot of confusion about this on BL. (Note: this is UK specific
but I believe most European countries have "similar" rules, obviously elsewhere
this may not be relevent so please don't shoot the messenger).
http://www.lovemoney.com/news/household-bills/tax/10444/the-taxman-is-watching-your-ebay-account
This is written about eBay but obviously would apply to BrickLink. When we 1st
started our BL store we took advice on this from BusinessLink and can confirm
that a lot (if not most) of UK Bricklink sellers would definitely be classified
as a business for tax and consumer protection purposes. Net, if you have a significant
number of transactions AND you have purchased stock for the purpose of resale
(not just disposing of your collection or odd bits), you ARE NOT a private seller
and are taking certain risks calling yourself such. One "dissatisfied" buyer
could give you a lot of trouble by reporting you to the HMRC (doing so is confidential
BTW so you will not know who did it) and aspects of your dealings here are in
the public domain - number of selling FB being the obvious one.
Food for thought and ignorance is no defense as they say, take care!
Robert
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| | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 08:53 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| big "yes" from me
Reki
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| | | | | Author: | D.Rae.McCormick | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 10:01 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design.
|
This is a feature of the internet in general, not just of BrickLink.
Some would say it poses a danger to consumers and should be prevented.
Some say it levels the playing ground in a way that is valuable and
to be cherished in a time when the distance between the haves and the
have nots is growing ever greater, and the haves control the means of
having and of getting even more. Maybe it's part of the American
heritage, but I value the freedoms of America, and I cherish the
"leveling" nature of the internet and of BrickLink. I also believe
that "simpler is better" and "the fewer regulations the better."
Feedback and good sense is generally enough to protect the consumer.
They don't need a "business" vs "hobbyist" label to protect them,
and it wouldn't anyway. I congratulate you if you are proud of
being a business, and I congratulate you if you are proud of being
a responsible seller on the internet; but allow for the hobbyists
to be just as proud and just as responsible. Like businesses,
some are and some aren't.
~RA3
| | For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Brickwilbo | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 10:11 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RA3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design.
|
This is a feature of the internet in general, not just of BrickLink.
Some would say it poses a danger to consumers and should be prevented.
Some say it levels the playing ground in a way that is valuable and
to be cherished in a time when the distance between the haves and the
have nots is growing ever greater, and the haves control the means of
having and of getting even more. Maybe it's part of the American
heritage, but I value the freedoms of America, and I cherish the
"leveling" nature of the internet and of BrickLink. I also believe
that "simpler is better" and "the fewer regulations the better."
Feedback and good sense is generally enough to protect the consumer.
They don't need a "business" vs "hobbyist" label to protect them,
and it wouldn't anyway. I congratulate you if you are proud of
being a business, and I congratulate you if you are proud of being
a responsible seller on the internet; but allow for the hobbyists
to be just as proud and just as responsible. Like businesses,
some are and some aren't.
~RA3
|
Well said.
| |
| | For many it
wont matter, but for some, it may.
Now, regardless of the ethical and contractual debates about who is to blame
when, In the EU (and other places too), business sellers have certain legal obligations
that hobby sellers don't, it is for this reasons that some buyers may prefer
to purchase only from business sellers. The detail of law isnt particularly relevant
to this suggestion (mainly because they vary depending upon your country).
What I propose, therefore is that there be a subtle but clear visible (or at
least findable if someone wants to look for it) difference between the stores
of business sellers and private sellers.
This has the following key benefits
1) Allows buyers to identify which sellers are hobbyists and which are professional
in a standardised way and make an informed choice on this basis. Whether a buyer
prefers a hobbyist or a pro, this will make it easier for them to make that choice.
2) It helps to clarify on the rare occasion that there is a dispute, which, if
any law(s) may be applicable. Some laws for example only apply business to consumer
and not business to business or consumer to consumer.
3) By clearly defining the two, it helps to manage buyer expectations, fewer
people will be upset when a hobbyist takes a day longer to invoice than the pro-seller
they bought from the week before, because they know its not a pro
4) Due to buyer expectations I believe it would lead to a rise in standards amongst
business sellers (most are very high anyway) which would in turn lead to a rise
in standards amongst hobby sellers too. and anything that encourages a rise in
standards can only be good for us all.
Generally speaking I think any movement in this direction should try to remain
true to the bricklink vision by making site features available to all sellers
regardless of status. Exceptions would only be things which only businesses would
have a need to use, such as VAT settings (thats the only one I can think of)
I dont have a particular vision on how to implement it, but I dont think any
change needs to be significant. It could simply be an icon displayed at the top
of the store and on the wanted list by shop page or the word "business" or "hobby"
written somewhere or a different design to the store visitor counter. I certainly
do not advocate pro and amateur stores having radically different layouts by
design. Just a small but noticable difference that buyers can search for according
to their own individual preference.
Admittedly, there are hundreds of sellers here who are technically (under tax
laws of wherever they live) business sellers but who would never admit it.
Gareth
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 10:31 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RA3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design.
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This is a feature of the internet in general, not just of BrickLink.
Some would say it poses a danger to consumers and should be prevented.
Some say it levels the playing ground in a way that is valuable and
to be cherished in a time when the distance between the haves and the
have nots is growing ever greater, and the haves control the means of
having and of getting even more. Maybe it's part of the American
heritage, but I value the freedoms of America, and I cherish the
"leveling" nature of the internet and of BrickLink. I also believe
that "simpler is better" and "the fewer regulations the better."
Feedback and good sense is generally enough to protect the consumer.
They don't need a "business" vs "hobbyist" label to protect them,
and it wouldn't anyway. I congratulate you if you are proud of
being a business, and I congratulate you if you are proud of being
a responsible seller on the internet; but allow for the hobbyists
to be just as proud and just as responsible. Like businesses,
some are and some aren't.
~RA3
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I say well said too. If everyone (buyers and sellers) traded with integrity then
there would be no need for consumer protection laws.
Unfortunately there does (not perhaps driven by BrickLink's record on safety
which is pretty good) seem to be the need for regualtion. I don't see this suggestion
as a private versus business debate, there are many good private and business
sellers here and we can indeed judge them by their FB. To me this is about helping
members comply with the law and not get into serious trouble due to not specifying
their status as a seller (due to ignorance of the requirements perhaps). Maybe
in USA you can just decide to call yourselve a private seller and that is fine
but not here, it is a criminal offence if you buy goods to resell to misrepresent
yourself as such. This suggestion simply helps people avoid that in a similar
way as eBay has seen fit to implement. Unless anyone has anything to hide (i.e.
is dishonest about their status for some reason) it does nobody any harm and,
as others have stated, trust is key to good trading and in my book trust and
honesty are inseperable.
Robert
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | bagelboybugle | | Posted: | Nov 20, 2011 13:17 | | Subject: | Re: Differentiate private and business sellers | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | In Suggestions, RA3 writes:
| | In Suggestions, bagelboybugle writes:
| | Presently, the only time we can be certain that a seller is running a business
is if they openly declare it in big writing (preferably with some bells and stuff)
or is registered for VAT. It is generally impossible to distinguish between part
time pro and heavily stocked amateur, particularly when so many amateur stores
appear professional with their branding and general splash design.
|
This is a feature of the internet in general, not just of BrickLink.
Some would say it poses a danger to consumers and should be prevented.
|
|
I actually think its a good thing, I like the professional appearance for all,
which is precisely why I don't want that to change.
| | | | I also believe
that "simpler is better" and "the fewer regulations the better."
|
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We dont make the regulations, but we do have to consider the regulations placed
upon us by government or by Admin. This keeps it simple and is far better than
trying to deal with different regs in different places and keeps bricklink itself
at a far enough distance from actual involvement in regulations and enforcing
them.
| | | | They don't need a "business" vs "hobbyist" label to protect them
|
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Where need is not the word, perhaps "want" may well be, isn't capitalism about
being pro-choice? in which case, where is the harm in providing a buyer the choice
on whether they want to buy from a pro or a hobbyist?
| | | | and I congratulate you if you are proud of being
a responsible seller on the internet; but allow for the hobbyists
to be just as proud and just as responsible. Like businesses,
some are and some aren't.
~RA3
|
|
There are a great many people who will only buy from hobbyists, this suggestion
is allowing for hobbyists in equal measure as it allows for business's and is
likely to benefit both hobbyist and business in equal measure.
| | I say well said too. If everyone (buyers and sellers) traded with integrity then
there would be no need for consumer protection laws.
Unless anyone has anything to hide (i.e.
is dishonest about their status for some reason) it does nobody any harm and,
as others have stated, trust is key to good trading and in my book trust and
honesty are inseperable.
Robert
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Absolutely 
Gareth
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