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| | | Author: | ToriHada  | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 13:32 | | Subject: | Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 207 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| I think it might be useful and help promote BrickLink if sellers were able to
have a very limited number of pre-registered BrickLink accounts they could give
to potential buyers at Lego shows and other events. These accounts would be pre-registered
by a seller and have a pre-selected username and ONE-TIME password(1). They could
be used by any unregistered buyer immediately AT ANY BRICKLINK SHOP(2)(3). All
the buyer would need to do to use this account would be to fill in their name
and address and the one-time password when submitting an order. The check-out
procedure would need to be tweaked to accomodate these particular accounts by
asking for a name and shipping address when checking out.
These accounts would enable new buyers to place a SINGLE trial order on BrickLink.
If they want to place multiple orders on brickLink, they would need to upgrade
to a regular account by going through the normal registration process. Also,
to prevent sellers from abusing this or hoarding new buyers for themselves, each
seller would be limited in the number of any such UNUSED accounts open at one
time. For example, perhaps we could limit these special pre-registered accounts
to one, two or three (at the most) per seller. When one is used, the seller can
then create a new one.
Yes, this will entail some work to implement. But when you consider that almost
half the buyers on BrickLink are casual non-AFOL buyers who only place a single
order and that many other potential buyers are lost because they don't understand
or can't be bothered with first registering for BrickLink, these pre-registered
accounts could create a lot more business for BrickLink and result in even more
buyers registering for a normal account after they have a good experience with
these pre-registered accounts.
OK folks, blast away - or brainstorm with ideas on how to make this suggestion
better or more doable. 
Thor
(1) These password would be usuable only once TO PLACE A SINGLE ORDER. These
accounts would not be able to be used to open a store, sell, post in the forum
or chat, or do anything else on BrickLink that requires a password. They exist
only for the limited purpose of allowing invited potential buyers to place one
order.
(2) To address the concerns of any sellers who might not want to receive orders
from such buyers, a seller would have to opt in to accepting these orders. If
the buyer tries to shop or place an order with a seller who does not accept orders
from such accounts, a notice would appear politely informing the buyer that their
account is only a limited trial one accepted by a limited number of sellers (with
a link to a page listing the sellers who accept orders from such accounts) and
inviting them to upgrade their account to a normal registered member.
(3) To encourage sellers to give out these accounts at Lego shows or whatever,
perhaps the buyer could be sent to the issuing seller's store when they first
enter BrickLink using this pre-registered account. But, of course, the buyer
can still leave that store and order from another BL seller if they want.
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| | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 14:07 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I like the overall idea, but dislike the conditions that you put on it.
Why would I go through the effort of creating such accounts and handing them
out if the buyer could go to other stores? It should only work int he store
that issued it.
And just how am I supposed to hand these out at shows and such if I can only
have 3 active at any one time? I would certainly hand out more than 3 at any
show.
Troy
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I think it might be useful and help promote BrickLink if sellers were able to
have a very limited number of pre-registered BrickLink accounts they could give
to potential buyers at Lego shows and other events. These accounts would be pre-registered
by a seller and have a pre-selected username and ONE-TIME password(1). They could
be used by any unregistered buyer immediately AT ANY BRICKLINK SHOP(2)(3). All
the buyer would need to do to use this account would be to fill in their name
and address and the one-time password when submitting an order. The check-out
procedure would need to be tweaked to accomodate these particular accounts by
asking for a name and shipping address when checking out.
These accounts would enable new buyers to place a SINGLE trial order on BrickLink.
If they want to place multiple orders on brickLink, they would need to upgrade
to a regular account by going through the normal registration process. Also,
to prevent sellers from abusing this or hoarding new buyers for themselves, each
seller would be limited in the number of any such UNUSED accounts open at one
time. For example, perhaps we could limit these special pre-registered accounts
to one, two or three (at the most) per seller. When one is used, the seller can
then create a new one.
Yes, this will entail some work to implement. But when you consider that almost
half the buyers on BrickLink are casual non-AFOL buyers who only place a single
order and that many other potential buyers are lost because they don't understand
or can't be bothered with first registering for BrickLink, these pre-registered
accounts could create a lot more business for BrickLink and result in even more
buyers registering for a normal account after they have a good experience with
these pre-registered accounts.
OK folks, blast away - or brainstorm with ideas on how to make this suggestion
better or more doable.
Thor
(1) These password would be usuable only once TO PLACE A SINGLE ORDER. These
accounts would not be able to be used to open a store, sell, post in the forum
or chat, or do anything else on BrickLink that requires a password. They exist
only for the limited purpose of allowing invited potential buyers to place one
order.
(2) To address the concerns of any sellers who might not want to receive orders
from such buyers, a seller would have to opt in to accepting these orders. If
the buyer tries to shop or place an order with a seller who does not accept orders
from such accounts, a notice would appear politely informing the buyer that their
account is only a limited trial one accepted by a limited number of sellers (with
a link to a page listing the sellers who accept orders from such accounts) and
inviting them to upgrade their account to a normal registered member.
(3) To encourage sellers to give out these accounts at Lego shows or whatever,
perhaps the buyer could be sent to the issuing seller's store when they first
enter BrickLink using this pre-registered account. But, of course, the buyer
can still leave that store and order from another BL seller if they want.
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 14:46 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | I like the overall idea, but dislike the conditions that you put on it.
Why would I go through the effort of creating such accounts and handing them
out if the buyer could go to other stores? It should only work int he store
that issued it.
|
This feature, if implemented by BrickLink, should benefit the entire BrickLink
community and not just one seller. The seller who issues these pre-registered
accounts will still have the significant benefit of such buyers first being directed
to their store. But they should not be given a monopoly on such buyers.
| |
And just how am I supposed to hand these out at shows and such if I can only
have 3 active at any one time? I would certainly hand out more than 3 at any
show.
|
You can hand out cards for the same pre-registered account. Most people will
not use them anyway, so the account will be usable only by the first person who
actually places an order and, in so doing, uses the one-time password. If others
attempt to use an account which has already been used, they will be prompted
to register in the normal manner. The point is that they are already here on
BrickLink if this happens.
I suggested a limit to the number of these accounts any one seller can have outstanding
at one time because I am concerned about possible abuses or misuses of this feature
by making these accounts available en masse. IMO, these accounts should be used
to promote BrickLink to those who may be hesitant to register in the normal manner.
These accounts should not become a substitute for regular accounts or offered
by sellers solely to promote their own stores. Over the years, I have referred
many buyers to BrickLink without insisting or expecting that they only purchase
from my store. However, I do at least let them know about my store and hope they
remember me when joining and shopping on BrickLink - and very often they do.
Thor
| |
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I think it might be useful and help promote BrickLink if sellers were able to
have a very limited number of pre-registered BrickLink accounts they could give
to potential buyers at Lego shows and other events. These accounts would be pre-registered
by a seller and have a pre-selected username and ONE-TIME password(1). They could
be used by any unregistered buyer immediately AT ANY BRICKLINK SHOP(2)(3). All
the buyer would need to do to use this account would be to fill in their name
and address and the one-time password when submitting an order. The check-out
procedure would need to be tweaked to accomodate these particular accounts by
asking for a name and shipping address when checking out.
These accounts would enable new buyers to place a SINGLE trial order on BrickLink.
If they want to place multiple orders on brickLink, they would need to upgrade
to a regular account by going through the normal registration process. Also,
to prevent sellers from abusing this or hoarding new buyers for themselves, each
seller would be limited in the number of any such UNUSED accounts open at one
time. For example, perhaps we could limit these special pre-registered accounts
to one, two or three (at the most) per seller. When one is used, the seller can
then create a new one.
Yes, this will entail some work to implement. But when you consider that almost
half the buyers on BrickLink are casual non-AFOL buyers who only place a single
order and that many other potential buyers are lost because they don't understand
or can't be bothered with first registering for BrickLink, these pre-registered
accounts could create a lot more business for BrickLink and result in even more
buyers registering for a normal account after they have a good experience with
these pre-registered accounts.
OK folks, blast away - or brainstorm with ideas on how to make this suggestion
better or more doable.
Thor
(1) These password would be usuable only once TO PLACE A SINGLE ORDER. These
accounts would not be able to be used to open a store, sell, post in the forum
or chat, or do anything else on BrickLink that requires a password. They exist
only for the limited purpose of allowing invited potential buyers to place one
order.
(2) To address the concerns of any sellers who might not want to receive orders
from such buyers, a seller would have to opt in to accepting these orders. If
the buyer tries to shop or place an order with a seller who does not accept orders
from such accounts, a notice would appear politely informing the buyer that their
account is only a limited trial one accepted by a limited number of sellers (with
a link to a page listing the sellers who accept orders from such accounts) and
inviting them to upgrade their account to a normal registered member.
(3) To encourage sellers to give out these accounts at Lego shows or whatever,
perhaps the buyer could be sent to the issuing seller's store when they first
enter BrickLink using this pre-registered account. But, of course, the buyer
can still leave that store and order from another BL seller if they want.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | misbi | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 15:40 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | You can hand out cards for the same pre-registered account. Most people will
not use them anyway, so the account will be usable only by the first person who
actually places an order and, in so doing, uses the one-time password. If others
attempt to use an account which has already been used, they will be prompted
to register in the normal manner. The point is that they are already here on
BrickLink if this happens.
|
So, if Troy hands out 100 cards at a meeting, 99 recepients will end up with
duds, frustrated that the express checkout is closed to them. That's not a great
first impression of Bricklink. If as you predict, most people won't use them
anyway, is it really worth the effort to implement?
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 17:52 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, brickcounter writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | You can hand out cards for the same pre-registered account. Most people will
not use them anyway, so the account will be usable only by the first person who
actually places an order and, in so doing, uses the one-time password. If others
attempt to use an account which has already been used, they will be prompted
to register in the normal manner. The point is that they are already here on
BrickLink if this happens.
|
So, if Troy hands out 100 cards at a meeting, 99 recepients will end up with
duds, frustrated that the express checkout is closed to them. That's not a great
first impression of Bricklink. If as you predict, most people won't use them
anyway, is it really worth the effort to implement?
|
If these cards have anywhere near the 100% response rate you envision, they will
exceed my wildest expectations. In the unlikely example you gave, if 99 of the
100 visitors to BrickLink find out that the trial account has already been used
by someone else, I doubt most of them would walk away in disgust. On the contrary,
if they are interested in BrickLink they will just upgrade to a normal account
by registering in the normal manner (as they will be invited to do if the trial
account has already been used). After all, they are already here and that by
itself is a huge first step.
The fact is that most of the people who are given these cards inviting them to
use these trial accounts will lose or ignore the card or fail to act on it. Furthermore,
sellers will have up to three different accounts to had out - not just one. But
even if this results in only one additional sale or buyer for every 100 cards
handed out, I would say it is definitely worth it. One new buyer could mean dozens
or hundreds of future orders.
That being said, I don't think these cards/accounts should be handed out indiscriminately
en masse. Sellers will need to be selective about who they give these out to
and target mainly those who show the most interest and potential. As posted earlier,
these limited trial accounts should not become so common that they become a substitute
for going through the normal registration and account process. We should also
be careful about these cards/accounts getting into the wrong hands (e.g. previously
banned buyers). Because these trial accounts won't go through the normal verification
process, BrickLink cannot check to see if the buyer has a valid email account.
So sellers need to be careful who they give these to.
Personally, I would oppose this suggestion if unlimited numbers of these cards/accounts
could be given to anyone, especially if they tied these new buyers to any one
seller or store. We need to be more community minded about these trial accounts
rather than focusing on what any one seller can get out of it. More buyers benefit
all of BrickLink, including every individual seller. That should be enough of
an incentive. If not, please don't deny this option for others to promote BrickLink.
Since it is an option, you won't have to use it yourself if you don't think it
is worth it to you.
Now if anyone has a suggestion that would be more effective in getting people
to visit, register in the normal manner, and actually place orders on BrickLink,
by all means tell us and we can then dispense with this suggestion of mine.
Thor
P.S. I forgot to add that these trial accounts should also automatically expire
after a certain period of time if not used. E.g. 60 or 90 days.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 19:10 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Now if anyone has a suggestion that would be more effective in getting people
to visit, register in the normal manner, and actually place orders on BrickLink,
by all means tell us and we can then dispense with this suggestion of mine.
|
No offense meant, but your suggestion as you would limit it would be useless
to me.
I can already handout business cards with BrickLinks' address on them if I want
to indiscriminately invite people to visit BL and buy from whatever store they
want.
I can already handout business cards with my address on them, that redirects
buyers to my store.
If I am going to go through the added effort of getting someone an EZPass to
the site, I would expect that effort to be rewarded with a sale in MY store.
Especially since such an EZPass is likely to be used by less internet savvy
people, and I will likely be stuck being tech support for them. Sorry, but I
am not going to do that so that you or someone else can get a sale.
Troy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 21:11 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Now if anyone has a suggestion that would be more effective in getting people
to visit, register in the normal manner, and actually place orders on BrickLink,
by all means tell us and we can then dispense with this suggestion of mine.
|
No offense meant, but your suggestion as you would limit it would be useless
to me.
|
That's OK Troy. You don't have to use this OPTION if you think you won't benefit
from it personally. For me and others it may be enough that BrickLink benefits
from it. So please allow us this option. Consider it our own form of volunteerism
and charitable contribution to the BrickLink community. Not everyone can be a
Community Overseer, Forum Mod or Catmin.
| | I can already handout business cards with BrickLinks' address on them if I want
to indiscriminately invite people to visit BL and buy from whatever store they
want.
|
That does not address the problem of buyers who prefer impulsive online ordering
or buyers who may be hesitant to go through the hassle and delay of formally
registering as a member.
| | I can already handout business cards with my address on them, that redirects
buyers to my store.
|
| | If I am going to go through the added effort of getting someone an EZPass to
the site, I would expect that effort to be rewarded with a sale in MY store.
|
Again, others may be more community-minded, and some may believe that benefiting
BrickLink with new buyers may trickle down them in the future via later orders
from those buyers - buyers who may not have otherwise joined BrickLink without
the first steps being taken for them.
| | Especially since such an EZPass is likely to be used by less internet savvy
people, and I will likely be stuck being tech support for them.
|
I don't share the assumption that people who use these accounts are going to
be less internet savvy than others. In fact, the reluctance to register for membership
may be because someone is MORE internet savvy.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:17 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Now if anyone has a suggestion that would be more effective in getting people
to visit, register in the normal manner, and actually place orders on BrickLink,
by all means tell us and we can then dispense with this suggestion of mine.
|
No offense meant, but your suggestion as you would limit it would be useless
to me.
|
That's OK Troy. You don't have to use this OPTION if you think you won't benefit
from it personally. For me and others it may be enough that BrickLink benefits
from it. So please allow us this option. Consider it our own form of volunteerism
and charitable contribution to the BrickLink community. Not everyone can be a
Community Overseer, Forum Mod or Catmin.
|
This has nothing to do with "giving back" to bricklink, and frankly I resent
your implication that anyone that seems to disagree with your suggestion is somehow
anti-bricklink or a greedy seller.
You have not made your case for why this would benefit BrickLink. Having not
needed to register for an account in the past 10 years, I thought it might be
wise to see just what this "pre-registering" would eliminate. It turns out to
be not very much at all. Just the username/password/secret question and a couple
of preferences. All stuff that really needs to be there for a successful transaction
anyways.
So, unless such "pre-registering" has some value-added benefit for the seller,
I don't actually see the point of the suggestion. If you want to bring new people
in to BrickLink, then just hand out cards with http://www.bricklink.com/browse.asp
on them to take people right to the buy page. It accomplishes the same thing.
I know that BrickLink can be intimidating for new users, so perhaps it might
be better to concentrate on a solution to that. Such as SIMPLE landing page
to send new buyers too with only buying options available (then can "graduate"
to the other areas once they get the hang of the simple page).
Troy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:32 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Now if anyone has a suggestion that would be more effective in getting people
to visit, register in the normal manner, and actually place orders on BrickLink,
by all means tell us and we can then dispense with this suggestion of mine.
|
No offense meant, but your suggestion as you would limit it would be useless
to me.
|
That's OK Troy. You don't have to use this OPTION if you think you won't benefit
from it personally. For me and others it may be enough that BrickLink benefits
from it. So please allow us this option. Consider it our own form of volunteerism
and charitable contribution to the BrickLink community. Not everyone can be a
Community Overseer, Forum Mod or Catmin.
|
This has nothing to do with "giving back" to bricklink, and frankly I resent
your implication that anyone that seems to disagree with your suggestion is somehow
anti-bricklink or a greedy seller.
You have not made your case for why this would benefit BrickLink. Having not
needed to register for an account in the past 10 years, I thought it might be
wise to see just what this "pre-registering" would eliminate. It turns out to
be not very much at all. Just the username/password/secret question and a couple
of preferences. All stuff that really needs to be there for a successful transaction
anyways.
So, unless such "pre-registering" has some value-added benefit for the seller,
I don't actually see the point of the suggestion. If you want to bring new people
in to BrickLink, then just hand out cards with http://www.bricklink.com/browse.asp
on them to take people right to the buy page. It accomplishes the same thing.
I know that BrickLink can be intimidating for new users, so perhaps it might
be better to concentrate on a solution to that. Such as SIMPLE landing page
to send new buyers too with only buying options available (then can "graduate"
to the other areas once they get the hang of the simple page).
Troy
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I find bricklink rather easy to use and I am not at all an experienced internet
user. If I can figure it out and thousands of kids and grown-ups can, it seems
like there really is nothing to change and no need to pre-register. If someone
can't figure this site out and how to register I am not sure I want to deal with
them anyways.
John P
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:34 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Now if anyone has a suggestion that would be more effective in getting people
to visit, register in the normal manner, and actually place orders on BrickLink,
by all means tell us and we can then dispense with this suggestion of mine.
|
No offense meant, but your suggestion as you would limit it would be useless
to me.
|
That's OK Troy. You don't have to use this OPTION if you think you won't benefit
from it personally. For me and others it may be enough that BrickLink benefits
from it. So please allow us this option. Consider it our own form of volunteerism
and charitable contribution to the BrickLink community. Not everyone can be a
Community Overseer, Forum Mod or Catmin.
|
This has nothing to do with "giving back" to bricklink, and frankly I resent
your implication that anyone that seems to disagree with your suggestion is somehow
anti-bricklink or a greedy seller.
|
I specifically worded and intended this suggestion to bring more people and sales
to BrickLink and to benefit BrickLink as a whole. You responded it wasn't worth
your time if you could not directly personally benefit from it by keeping these
new buyers for yourself. I then asked that you not vote against this suggestion
and deny this option to others who wanted it even though they may not personally
benefit from it directly. I implied nothing about anyone being greedy or anti-BrickLink.
I just don't think you should deny this option to others simply because you don't
think it is worth YOUR time.
| |
You have not made your case for why this would benefit BrickLink. Having not
needed to register for an account in the past 10 years, I thought it might be
wise to see just what this "pre-registering" would eliminate. It turns out to
be not very much at all. Just the username/password/secret question and a couple
of preferences. All stuff that really needs to be there for a successful transaction
anyways.
|
This is not true. One significant thing you failed to mention is that a new member
must activate their membership before they can use it. This entails giving their
email address to BrickLink, receiving and acting on that email. Furthermore,
a username, password, secret question, account and preferences are not required
for placing orders with many other online competitors. All you need to buy something
online is a name, shipping address and payment. Lastly, many people are reluctant
to provide additional unnecessary information online when they just want to quickly
buy one thing.
| | If you want to bring new people in to BrickLink, then just hand out cards with http://www.bricklink.com/browse.asp on them to take people right to the buy page. It accomplishes the same thing.
|
It does not, because it does not deal with the problem of people who are reluctant
to go through the time and hassle of registering and becoming a member and providing
unnecessary personal information when all they want to do is place one quick
order for their kid's Christmas or birthday present.
| | I know that BrickLink can be intimidating for new users,
|
Exactly! And it is this intimidation which scares many potential buyers away.
| | so perhaps it might
be better to concentrate on a solution to that. Such as SIMPLE landing page
to send new buyers too with only buying options available (then can "graduate"
to the other areas once they get the hang of the simple page).
|
Sure, that can be done too. But these are not either/or mutually exclusive suggestions.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 01:38 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | | | If you want to bring new people in to BrickLink, then just hand out cards with http://www.bricklink.com/browse.asp on them to take people right to the buy page. It accomplishes the same thing.
|
It does not, because it does not deal with the problem of people who are reluctant
to go through the time and hassle of registering and becoming a member and providing
unnecessary personal information when all they want to do is place one quick
order for their kid's Christmas or birthday present.
|
The more we discuss this the more I REALLY dislike your idea.
If we allow anyone to create these "pre-registered" accounts, and anyone to use
them in any store, it sounds like the perfect way to circumvent stop-lists and
having your privileges revoked.
What is to prevent a well known dishonest seller, who is on many many stop-lists,
from generating a pre-registered account and then using it himself to place an
order in your store? If he had it shipped to a friends or a neighbors house
you wouldn't even know it was him.
Just as I would not want people whom I specifically recruit to go to other stores,
I would not want to open myself up to the possibility of fraud from other sellers
abusing the feature.
I know you are going to say it is "optional", but that doesn't give it a free
pass. I think it may be better to stick with the full registration process and
the minimal amount of assurance that it provides.
Troy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 09:18 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | | | If you want to bring new people in to BrickLink, then just hand out cards with http://www.bricklink.com/browse.asp on them to take people right to the buy page. It accomplishes the same thing.
|
It does not, because it does not deal with the problem of people who are reluctant
to go through the time and hassle of registering and becoming a member and providing
unnecessary personal information when all they want to do is place one quick
order for their kid's Christmas or birthday present.
|
The more we discuss this the more I REALLY dislike your idea.
If we allow anyone to create these "pre-registered" accounts, and anyone to use
them in any store, it sounds like the perfect way to circumvent stop-lists and
having your privileges revoked.
What is to prevent a well known dishonest seller, who is on many many stop-lists,
from generating a pre-registered account and then using it himself to place an
order in your store? If he had it shipped to a friends or a neighbors house
you wouldn't even know it was him.
|
Yes, this is one of the risks involved. But it is not a significantly greater
risk than the current registration system. The current registration system does
NOT prevent this kind of dishonesty. Under the current system it is quite easy
to open up multiple duplicate accounts. In fact, the seller you speak of currently
has several such accounts few people know about. So even under the current system
people can still quite easily do what you fear might be done with these pre-registered
accounts. The increased risk is negligible. If someone is determined to be dishonest
and get around the system, they will do so with equal ease under either system.
| | Just as I would not want people whom I specifically recruit to go to other stores,
I would not want to open myself up to the possibility of fraud from other sellers
abusing the feature.
I know you are going to say it is "optional", but that doesn't give it a free
pass. I think it may be better to stick with the full registration process and
the minimal amount of assurance that it provides.
|
What minimal assurance? The current registration system provides absolutely no
assurance whatsoever that you are dealing with whomever the registrant claims
to be or that such person is honest. There is no verification of identity at
all. The ONLY assurance is NOT provided by the current system. The only assurance
is that most people are honest and won't deliberately violate the rules or abuse
the system. And that won't change if we offer people another way to place orders
here.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Scrp749 | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:41 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Now if anyone has a suggestion that would be more effective in getting people
to visit, register in the normal manner, and actually place orders on BrickLink,
by all means tell us and we can then dispense with this suggestion of mine.
|
No offense meant, but your suggestion as you would limit it would be useless
to me.
|
That's OK Troy. You don't have to use this OPTION if you think you won't benefit
from it personally. For me and others it may be enough that BrickLink benefits
from it. So please allow us this option. Consider it our own form of volunteerism
and charitable contribution to the BrickLink community. Not everyone can be a
Community Overseer, Forum Mod or Catmin.
|
This has nothing to do with "giving back" to bricklink, and frankly I resent
your implication that anyone that seems to disagree with your suggestion is somehow
anti-bricklink or a greedy seller.
You have not made your case for why this would benefit BrickLink. Having not
needed to register for an account in the past 10 years, I thought it might be
wise to see just what this "pre-registering" would eliminate. It turns out to
be not very much at all. Just the username/password/secret question and a couple
of preferences. All stuff that really needs to be there for a successful transaction
anyways.
So, unless such "pre-registering" has some value-added benefit for the seller,
I don't actually see the point of the suggestion. If you want to bring new people
in to BrickLink, then just hand out cards with http://www.bricklink.com/browse.asp
on them to take people right to the buy page. It accomplishes the same thing.
I know that BrickLink can be intimidating for new users, so perhaps it might
be better to concentrate on a solution to that. Such as SIMPLE landing page
to send new buyers too with only buying options available (then can "graduate"
to the other areas once they get the hang of the simple page).
Troy
|
Foster, I have a hilarious story for you. Earlier this weekend my parents went
to the Hartville Marketplace. (Kind of like a bazaar, but much larger.) To make
a long story short, they met and chatted with a very professional businessman
who was selling an extremely large selection of Legos. They were very impressed,
so much that they made a small impulse purchase and received the saleman's business
cards. Can you guess who this person might be?
The moral of the story is that if you want to make more business, you have to
sell yourself. If you can afford to put up a heckuva display at a public marketplace,
than you deserve the right to better advertising. I see nothing wrong with chatting
up potential customers and inviting them to our Bricklink community, but I don't
see the reason for a trial account. Why go through all that fuss when it's just
as much of a pain to start a REAL account here? Plus who would want to manage
all those temporary accounts? So I will vote 'no' on this one... but wanted to
share this story.
BTW if you are reading this Troy, my first purchase on Bricklink was from Melanie.
- Chris
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| | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 17:48 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | I like the overall idea, but dislike the conditions that you put on it.
Why would I go through the effort of creating such accounts and handing them
out if the buyer could go to other stores? It should only work int he store
that issued it.
|
I agree. I think it's a cool idea, but definitely making it limited to just the
one store makes sense. It would also make it simpler to implement, because it
gets rid of the issue of needing stores to opt-in, and it simplifies the user-experience
-- even with all the experience on ebay, new users probably find it confusing
that there are so many sellers here. People are probably used to the idea that
if you are using a shopping cart, you are dealing with one store.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 18:02 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | I like the overall idea, but dislike the conditions that you put on it.
Why would I go through the effort of creating such accounts and handing them
out if the buyer could go to other stores? It should only work int he store
that issued it.
|
I agree. I think it's a cool idea, but definitely making it limited to just the
one store makes sense.
|
Well, in that case, I would strongly oppose such a suggestion(1). Giving sellers
a BrickLink tool to promote only their store would actually result in less promotion
of BrickLink overall. Again, I think people need to be more community minded
here. I have promoted BrickLink to non-members on many many occasions without
insisting or expecting that they shop only with me. I *HOPE* they will (eventually)
shop with me, but I do not insist they do so. The hard part is getting these
people to join BrickLink at all. Once they do, then you can try to win them over
as customers.
Thor
(1) BTW, this is NOT the suggestion mentioned in this thread.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 18:21 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | I like the overall idea, but dislike the conditions that you put on it.
Why would I go through the effort of creating such accounts and handing them
out if the buyer could go to other stores? It should only work int he store
that issued it.
|
I agree. I think it's a cool idea, but definitely making it limited to just the
one store makes sense.
|
Well, in that case, I would strongly oppose such a suggestion(1). Giving sellers
a BrickLink tool to promote only their store would actually result in less promotion
of BrickLink overall. Again, I think people need to be more community minded
here.
|
I agree that the goal is to increase the overall interest in BL as a whole. But
I think that the way to do that is to make sure that the "trial" experience is
tightly tailored. I would much rather that someone's first experience with BrickLink
was Troy's store (even though I've never shopped there myself, I see that it
is very successful) or one of a number of other large sellers. I would MUCH rather
that, instead of someone's first experience being with Minifigures+++.
After their initial purchase (or even as part of going through the trial process)
the Trial Buyer could get messages that let them know there is an entire world
of other sellers on BL, and to access them all, they just need to register for
a full account.
By implementing the solution in this way, the seller who gave out the trial account
is completely responsible for the risk that this type of account entails.
The more I think about the idea, the more I like it. As Jon mentioned a couple
of weeks ago, there is a large learning curve to the BL experience. I hadn't
been able to think of a good way to simplify it, but I think this idea (as tweaked
by Troy) does it beautifully.
The only other addition that I would make is that Admin decides what sellers
have access to these trial accounts. A store would need to be sufficiently large
that the Trial Buyer still has a tremendous inventory to select from, and the
seller's feedback needs to be positive enough that we can nearly guarantee that
their experience would be a positive one.
I completely agree that the ultimate goal is to get the Trial Buyers to shop
from many stores. I just think that the way to get them there is to hold their
hand through their first purchase by giving them a limited version of the site.
I would trust that whoever Admin chose to have access to the Trial Accounts would
do their best to make sure those Trial purchases go through without a hitch,
so that those buyers will come back and benefit the entire BL community.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 18:34 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | I like the overall idea, but dislike the conditions that you put on it.
Why would I go through the effort of creating such accounts and handing them
out if the buyer could go to other stores? It should only work int he store
that issued it.
|
I agree. I think it's a cool idea, but definitely making it limited to just the
one store makes sense.
|
Well, in that case, I would strongly oppose such a suggestion(1). Giving sellers
a BrickLink tool to promote only their store would actually result in less promotion
of BrickLink overall. Again, I think people need to be more community minded
here.
|
I agree that the goal is to increase the overall interest in BL as a whole. But
I think that the way to do that is to make sure that the "trial" experience is
tightly tailored. I would much rather that someone's first experience with BrickLink
was Troy's store (even though I've never shopped there myself, I see that it
is very successful) or one of a number of other large sellers. I would MUCH rather
that, instead of someone's first experience being with Minifigures+++.
After their initial purchase (or even as part of going through the trial process)
the Trial Buyer could get messages that let them know there is an entire world
of other sellers on BL, and to access them all, they just need to register for
a full account.
By implementing the solution in this way, the seller who gave out the trial account
is completely responsible for the risk that this type of account entails.
The more I think about the idea, the more I like it. As Jon mentioned a couple
of weeks ago, there is a large learning curve to the BL experience. I hadn't
been able to think of a good way to simplify it, but I think this idea (as tweaked
by Troy) does it beautifully.
The only other addition that I would make is that Admin decides what sellers
have access to these trial accounts. A store would need to be sufficiently large
that the Trial Buyer still has a tremendous inventory to select from, and the
seller's feedback needs to be positive enough that we can nearly guarantee that
their experience would be a positive one.
I completely agree that the ultimate goal is to get the Trial Buyers to shop
from many stores. I just think that the way to get them there is to hold their
hand through their first purchase by giving them a limited version of the site.
I would trust that whoever Admin chose to have access to the Trial Accounts would
do their best to make sure those Trial purchases go through without a hitch,
so that those buyers will come back and benefit the entire BL community.
Marc.
|
I am not sure I understand you here. Are you really suggesting that only a few
big sellers be able to receive orders from these trial accounts or that Admin
screen and approve sellers who can receive these trial orders? Because if it
is then it is a perversion of the original suggestion in this thread and I would
ask that you make your completely different suggestion in a separate thread.
Again, what you are suggesting is NOT the original suggestion made in this thread
and I really don't want readers confusing your suggestion for mine. So I again
ask that if you are going to so significantly change this suggestion that you
please do so by making your own very different suggestion in a completely new
thread.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 18:43 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | I agree that the goal is to increase the overall interest in BL as a whole. But
I think that the way to do that is to make sure that the "trial" experience is
tightly tailored. I would much rather that someone's first experience with BrickLink
was Troy's store (even though I've never shopped there myself, I see that it
is very successful) or one of a number of other large sellers. I would MUCH rather
that, instead of someone's first experience being with Minifigures+++.
After their initial purchase (or even as part of going through the trial process)
the Trial Buyer could get messages that let them know there is an entire world
of other sellers on BL, and to access them all, they just need to register for
a full account.
By implementing the solution in this way, the seller who gave out the trial account
is completely responsible for the risk that this type of account entails.
The more I think about the idea, the more I like it. As Jon mentioned a couple
of weeks ago, there is a large learning curve to the BL experience. I hadn't
been able to think of a good way to simplify it, but I think this idea (as tweaked
by Troy) does it beautifully.
The only other addition that I would make is that Admin decides what sellers
have access to these trial accounts. A store would need to be sufficiently large
that the Trial Buyer still has a tremendous inventory to select from, and the
seller's feedback needs to be positive enough that we can nearly guarantee that
their experience would be a positive one.
I completely agree that the ultimate goal is to get the Trial Buyers to shop
from many stores. I just think that the way to get them there is to hold their
hand through their first purchase by giving them a limited version of the site.
I would trust that whoever Admin chose to have access to the Trial Accounts would
do their best to make sure those Trial purchases go through without a hitch,
so that those buyers will come back and benefit the entire BL community.
Marc.
|
I am not sure I understand you here. Are you really suggesting that only a few
big sellers be able to receive orders from these trial accounts or that Admin
screen and approve sellers who can receive these trial orders? Because if it
is then it is a perversion of the original suggestion in this thread and I would
ask that you make your completely different suggestion in a separate thread.
Again, what you are suggesting is NOT the original suggestion made in this thread
and I really don't want readers confusing your suggestion for mine. So I again
ask that if you are going to so significantly change this suggestion that you
please do so by making your own very different suggestion in a completely new
thread.
|
Suggestion threads benefit BL by allowing people to hash out ideas, come up with
tweaks, make visible people's concerns, etc etc etc. I don't think that anyone
will get confused by alternate ideas posted 6 replies in. They can't vote yes
or no to any posts in the thread except the first one -- if someone wants to
vote on the suggestion, they need to go to the root -- your actual suggestion.
Spinning off the discussion to a different thread would not benefit the exchange
of ideas.
Regarding the question at the start of your response above, yes, that (either
of those) is what I am describing, and what I see as an improvement to your idea.
I am not yet at the point that I would want to post this as a separate suggestion,
because I haven't heard anyone else's opinions on whether these are actually
improvements to your idea or not, or if there are other suggestions or concerns.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 19:19 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | Regarding the question at the start of your response above, yes, that (either
of those) is what I am describing, and what I see as an improvement to your idea.
I am not yet at the point that I would want to post this as a separate suggestion,
because I haven't heard anyone else's opinions on whether these are actually
improvements to your idea or not, or if there are other suggestions or concerns.
|
I don't think that it need be limited to selected sellers. I would think that
limiting it to sellers that have a certain number of feedback as a seller would
be sufficient. The number would need to be low enough to not limit the usefulness
of the feature, but high enough to ensure that the seller actually knows what
they are doing and can provide a positive first experience. My suggestion would
be 10.
As for the discussion of changes to the original suggestion, I thought that is
what these threads were meant to do. Discuss the suggestion. Offering suggested
improvements is part of that discussion.
Troy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 19:33 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | Regarding the question at the start of your response above, yes, that (either
of those) is what I am describing, and what I see as an improvement to your idea.
I am not yet at the point that I would want to post this as a separate suggestion,
because I haven't heard anyone else's opinions on whether these are actually
improvements to your idea or not, or if there are other suggestions or concerns.
|
I don't think that it need be limited to selected sellers. I would think that
limiting it to sellers that have a certain number of feedback as a seller would
be sufficient. The number would need to be low enough to not limit the usefulness
of the feature, but high enough to ensure that the seller actually knows what
they are doing and can provide a positive first experience. My suggestion would
be 10.
|
I can see that. If I was choosing the number though, I'd go considerably higher
than 10.
It may sound strange for me to say this, but I don't think that my store (to
use an example) would make for a useful first experience for the type of newbie
that we would potentially be attracting here, simply because of my very limited
selection (and at 15,000 parts, I'm guessing that I probably have more stock
than the "average" BL store). For the specific type of user who would benefit
from a Trial Membership, the best experience would likely be with a store that
has hundreds of thousands of parts (or many dozens of sets). Which is why I would
be fine if the selection criteria actually left me out.
Then again, if I was giving out such limited accounts at a Bionicle event or
a Galidor festival ... 
Mind you, I actually do get a lot of new users. Probably half of the orders in
my store come from users who have 5 or less feedback at the time of their order.
But I think there's a difference between the type of new user who is internet-savvy
enough to figure out BL on their own, and they get a bunch of Bionicle parts
in my store for their kid, versus the less-digital-age AFOL that I imagine giving
these Trial Memberships to.
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 21:26 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
|
| | | | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
|
|
| | | | | | I agree that the goal is to increase the overall interest in BL as a whole. But
I think that the way to do that is to make sure that the "trial" experience is
tightly tailored. I would much rather that someone's first experience with BrickLink
was Troy's store ... or one of a number of other large sellers.
|
|
|
| | | | | | The only other addition that I would make is that Admin decides what sellers
have access to these trial accounts. ... to be positive enough that we can nearly guarantee that their experience would be a positive one.
|
|
|
| | | | | | I would trust that whoever Admin chose to have access to the Trial Accounts would
do their best to make sure those Trial purchases go through without a hitch,
so that those buyers will come back and benefit the entire BL community.
|
|
|
| | | | I am not sure I understand you here. Are you really suggesting that only a few
big sellers be able to receive orders from these trial accounts or that Admin
screen and approve sellers who can receive these trial orders?
|
|
| | ... yes, that (either of those) is what I am describing, and what I see as an improvement to your idea.
|
I am sorry, but I find this twist on this suggestion terribly elitist and unfair
to the great many excellent sellers who will not be able to benefit from being
part of the select chosen few "big sellers" who would be authorized to receive
orders from these buyers. If ensuring that a new buyer's first experience here
is a positive one, why do you want this assurance only for the minority of new
buyers who may use these pre-registered trial accounts? If ensuring the first
buying experience is a positive one is truly a legitimate concern, then you should
suggest that EVERY new buyer - even those who register in the normal manner -
be required to place orders only with pre-authorized good "big sellers". Make
that suggestion and see the kind of responses you will get. Come on! I dare ya!
Furthermore, there is no way that Admin or BrickLink will authorize, approve
or endorse a select few "big sellers" over other sellers. The ToS(1) and Admin
have repeatedly made it very clear that neither BrickLink nor Admin want any
responsibility for the actions of any sellers here. By authorizing, approving
or endorsing a select few "big sellers" over other sellers, Admin and BrickLink
make it much more difficult to argue that it is just a venue and that they are
not responsible for the actions of such sellers.
Thor
(1) See sections 3, 9 and 10 of the ToS.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 21:52 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | I agree that the goal is to increase the overall interest in BL as a whole. But
I think that the way to do that is to make sure that the "trial" experience is
tightly tailored. I would much rather that someone's first experience with BrickLink
was Troy's store ... or one of a number of other large sellers.
The only other addition that I would make is that Admin decides what sellers
have access to these trial accounts. ... to be positive enough that we can nearly guarantee that their experience would be a positive one.
I would trust that whoever Admin chose to have access to the Trial Accounts would
do their best to make sure those Trial purchases go through without a hitch,
so that those buyers will come back and benefit the entire BL community.
|
I am not sure I understand you here. Are you really suggesting that only a few
big sellers be able to receive orders from these trial accounts or that Admin
screen and approve sellers who can receive these trial orders?
|
... yes, that (either of those) is what I am describing, and what I see as an improvement to your idea.
|
I am sorry, but I find this twist on this suggestion terribly elitist and unfair
to the great many excellent sellers who will not be able to benefit from being
part of the select chosen few "big sellers" who would be authorized to receive
orders from these buyers.
|
I'll get to this at the end.
| | If ensuring that a new buyer's first experience here
is a positive one, why do you want this assurance only for the minority of new
buyers who may use these pre-registered trial accounts? If ensuring the first
buying experience is a positive one is truly a legitimate concern, then you should
suggest that EVERY new buyer - even those who register in the normal manner -
be required to place orders only with pre-authorized good "big sellers". Make
that suggestion and see the kind of responses you will get. Come on! I dare ya!
|
Your arguments are usually much more logical than this, Foster. Why would I make
a suggestion that I don't actually agree with? I think it would be better if
you just deal with the statements that I actually make instead of inventing straw-men.
I'll just chalk that one up to over-zealousness, and move on to the real argument:
| | Furthermore, there is no way that Admin or BrickLink will authorize, approve
or endorse a select few "big sellers" over other sellers. The ToS(1) and Admin
have repeatedly made it very clear that neither BrickLink nor Admin want any
responsibility for the actions of any sellers here. By authorizing, approving
or endorsing a select few "big sellers" over other sellers, Admin and BrickLink
make it much more difficult to argue that it is just a venue and that they are
not responsible for the actions of such sellers.
|
Much better. You're right that Admin would definitely not want be involved in
the selection process. (See? That's what these threads are for!)
However, designing an automated process that provides different benefits (and
different penalties) for sellers who meet particular criteria would not violate
the principle you describe. Such processes already exist here.
To get back to the "elitist" bit -- it isn't true that only the big sellers would
"be authorized to receive orders from these buyers" as you described. Those buyers
can absolutely sign up for a regular account. In fact, I think I mentioned earlier
that the interface ought to stress the benefits of doing so (letting them know
that their limited account lets them see just one store, but that there are thousands
of others to buy from as well).
But sure, I'll agree that restricting the right to distribute these hypothetical
Trial Accounts to elite stores could be called "elitist" -- in the same way that
charging stores who sell orders for more than $1000 a lower fee percentage is
elitist.
--
Marc.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 22:15 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:31 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | Your arguments are usually much more logical than this, Foster. Why would I make
a suggestion that I don't actually agree with? I think it would be better if
you just deal with the statements that I actually make instead of inventing straw-men.
|
OK, to prevent your further evasion of this issue...
|
I'm not sure how demonstrating that your argument is fallacious constitutes evading
the issue. If you need, though, I'm happy to be more thorough in my answer this
time.
| | ... let me quote here your own words:
You: "I would much rather that someone's first experience with BrickLink was
Troy's store ... or one of a number of other large sellers."
Me: "Are you really suggesting that only a few big sellers be able to receive
orders from these trial accounts or that Admin screen and approve sellers who
can receive these trial orders?"
You: "yes, that (either of those) is what I am describing."
IMO, and the opinion of many others I would think - especially the many fine
sellers here who are not "large sellers" - requiring these new "trial" buyers
to order only from "large sellers" is about as elitist as you can get.
|
Sure, but that's not what I said. (The quote is accurate. Your restatement of
it in the last sentence above is not.)
There are two things that I think are leading to the confusion. First, you are
reading too much into my well-wishing -- you see requirement where I talk about
desire. "I would much rather..." is not at all the same as "I want to require..."
The second potential source of confusion is how you seem to be conflating "account"
with "buyer". I don't want to restrict BUYERS to just the "elite" stores -- I
want to restrict Trial Accounts to them. There is a huge difference there that
you presumably didn't notice.
I want the Buyer to be told that there are other stores. Perhaps I should have
stressed that part more in the message that you quote from. At every opportunity,
the Buyer should be informed that if they want to spread their wings and experience
BL in all its glory, they need only register for a full account, and it's all
theirs.
| | So once
again I will ask, if you are so concerned that the experience of this minority
of new "trial" buyers be positive, where is that same concern for the majority
of all other new buyers who register via the normal manner? Why would you require
greater "protection" for new pre-registered "trial" buyers as opposed to all
other new "non-trial" buyers who manually register in the normal manner?
|
Now, let's get to your actual question, so that your accusation of evasion won't
be repeated!
The answer, as should be clear from the above, is simply that I DON'T require
greater protection for trial buyers.
To avoid another potential back-and-forth, though, I will go ahead and rephrase
your question, and I will answer that one as well. (In case you were going to
say, no this isn't a straw-man, because I'm not attributing this next question
to you. I'm just asking myself a question which makes more sense, now that I've
answered the question you actually asked). For your question to make sense in
the context of what I actually said, we need to remove the "require" hyperbole,
and replace "buyer" with "account": "Why do you wish that Trial Accounts have
greater protection than regular accounts?"
Strangely, even after stripping out the hyperbole, my answer is still "I don't."
My opinion that Trial Account distribution should be given only to larger stores
is actually a side-effect of a desired feature, not a primary feature itself.
The feature that I would want is what Troy first brought up -- that the Trial
Accounts should be restricted to the one store. The problem with that is that
if we allow for that restriction on the account (and I absolutely think that
is a positive choice) there is the very large potential that the people buyers
who use those accounts will encounter a BrickLink so drastically crippled that
they will simply leave.
Where to draw the line is absolutely open to debate, and I could see myself agreeing
with Troy's follow-up that a feedback of 10 is all that is required. But to me,
for now, that draws the line much too broadly. Earlier today, someone posted
a 50% off sale in their store, when they had nine parts for a nickle each, and
two fifty cent minifigs. (I may have the details wrong, but the general idea
is about right.) Imagine if that seller handed out Trial Account cards instead
of posting to the forum. Ten or twenty or fifty people come to BrickLink, see
that there's about two dollar's worth of merchandise for sale here, and they
leave, thinking that the site is a joke.
If the idea that you initially described (where buyers on Trial Accounts can
shop in any store) were implemented, then my restriction that the distribution
of the Trial Accounts should be limited to stores that meet particular criteria
makes absolutely no sense, and is most definitely "elitist" in the most repugnant
sense of the term. But I wasn't adding that idea to your initial suggestion,
I was adding it to the tweaked version that restricts Trial Accounts to the store
that issued them. In the context of that tweaked idea, I see it as a necessary
kludge to get back to the desired purpose of the suggestion in the first place
-- to bring more people to BrickLink.
Hopefully, this additional layer of explanation will exempt me from further accusations
of "evasion" !! ;D
--
Marc.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:39 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, fleury writes:
| | Your arguments are usually much more logical than this, Foster. Why would I make
a suggestion that I don't actually agree with? I think it would be better if
you just deal with the statements that I actually make instead of inventing straw-men.
|
OK, to prevent your further evasion of this issue...
|
I'm not sure how demonstrating that your argument is fallacious constitutes evading
the issue. If you need, though, I'm happy to be more thorough in my answer this
time.
| | ... let me quote here your own words:
You: "I would much rather that someone's first experience with BrickLink was
Troy's store ... or one of a number of other large sellers."
Me: "Are you really suggesting that only a few big sellers be able to receive
orders from these trial accounts or that Admin screen and approve sellers who
can receive these trial orders?"
You: "yes, that (either of those) is what I am describing."
IMO, and the opinion of many others I would think - especially the many fine
sellers here who are not "large sellers" - requiring these new "trial" buyers
to order only from "large sellers" is about as elitist as you can get.
|
Sure, but that's not what I said. (The quote is accurate. Your restatement of
it in the last sentence above is not.)
There are two things that I think are leading to the confusion. First, you are
reading too much into my well-wishing -- you see requirement where I talk about
desire. "I would much rather..." is not at all the same as "I want to require..."
The second potential source of confusion is how you seem to be conflating "account"
with "buyer". I don't want to restrict BUYERS to just the "elite" stores -- I
want to restrict Trial Accounts to them. There is a huge difference there that
you presumably didn't notice.
I want the Buyer to be told that there are other stores. Perhaps I should have
stressed that part more in the message that you quote from. At every opportunity,
the Buyer should be informed that if they want to spread their wings and experience
BL in all its glory, they need only register for a full account, and it's all
theirs.
| | So once
again I will ask, if you are so concerned that the experience of this minority
of new "trial" buyers be positive, where is that same concern for the majority
of all other new buyers who register via the normal manner? Why would you require
greater "protection" for new pre-registered "trial" buyers as opposed to all
other new "non-trial" buyers who manually register in the normal manner?
|
Now, let's get to your actual question, so that your accusation of evasion won't
be repeated!
The answer, as should be clear from the above, is simply that I DON'T require
greater protection for trial buyers.
To avoid another potential back-and-forth, though, I will go ahead and rephrase
your question, and I will answer that one as well. (In case you were going to
say, no this isn't a straw-man, because I'm not attributing this next question
to you. I'm just asking myself a question which makes more sense, now that I've
answered the question you actually asked). For your question to make sense in
the context of what I actually said, we need to remove the "require" hyperbole,
and replace "buyer" with "account": "Why do you wish that Trial Accounts have
greater protection than regular accounts?"
Strangely, even after stripping out the hyperbole, my answer is still "I don't."
My opinion that Trial Account distribution should be given only to larger stores
is actually a side-effect of a desired feature, not a primary feature itself.
The feature that I would want is what Troy first brought up -- that the Trial
Accounts should be restricted to the one store. The problem with that is that
if we allow for that restriction on the account (and I absolutely think that
is a positive choice) there is the very large potential that the people buyers
who use those accounts will encounter a BrickLink so drastically crippled that
they will simply leave.
Where to draw the line is absolutely open to debate, and I could see myself agreeing
with Troy's follow-up that a feedback of 10 is all that is required. But to me,
for now, that draws the line much too broadly. Earlier today, someone posted
a 50% off sale in their store, when they had nine parts for a nickle each, and
two fifty cent minifigs. (I may have the details wrong, but the general idea
is about right.) Imagine if that seller handed out Trial Account cards instead
of posting to the forum. Ten or twenty or fifty people come to BrickLink, see
that there's about two dollar's worth of merchandise for sale here, and they
leave, thinking that the site is a joke.
If the idea that you initially described (where buyers on Trial Accounts can
shop in any store) were implemented, then my restriction that the distribution
of the Trial Accounts should be limited to stores that meet particular criteria
makes absolutely no sense, and is most definitely "elitist" in the most repugnant
sense of the term. But I wasn't adding that idea to your initial suggestion,
I was adding it to the tweaked version that restricts Trial Accounts to the store
that issued them. In the context of that tweaked idea, I see it as a necessary
kludge to get back to the desired purpose of the suggestion in the first place
-- to bring more people to BrickLink.
Hopefully, this additional layer of explanation will exempt me from further accusations
of "evasion" !! ;D
--
Marc.
|
I totally agree Marc. Who needs them? Buyers register, they make an order, I
fill the order and invoice, they pay and I ship. What could be easier?
Besides I have a very large number of first time buyers, all and all with little
problem. I believe in not over ticking a system, rather making it simpler.
John P
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| | | | | Author: | Reki_Lobsheek | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 18:37 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| wow, you're really on a roll Thor!
Reki
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| | | | | Author: | BLUSER_218581 | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 20:19 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hi,
I am a recent new member, and I didn't find this place by typing "Lego pieces"
in a well know search engine. NO
I had to look for a while before I found a random piece of information mentioning
Bricklink (or BL as it is known as for the more experienced members)and it didn't
state if it was a .com or a .org etc.
If I had been handed a one off pre-registered account for me to place the one
order, it would have been confusing when I quickly realise that it was not possible
to order the items I required from the one shop.
I would be left thinking "WHY"  why was I given a one use account that leaves
me unable to order from more than one store? Would it not be better to hand out
bussiness cards with the BL web address on. Maybe a new menu TAG just for the
newcomer. A VERY CLEAR MENU TAB
A VERY CLEAR MENU TAB
Just for the new visitors to look at to ease them in
A VERY CLEAR MENU TAB
A VERY CLEAR MENU TAB that
opens a very easy to understand explanation on how things should go.
But no, to discover what to expect from the first time purchase, a new comer
is required to click menu tab, then decide which sub menu is the one to look
at first.
HELP Tab
ABOUT BRICKLINK Tab
erm?
I found the site a little strange to start with, and I'm not some wet behind
the ear computer user.
It doesn't cost anything to become a member, so why would a one use pre account
be useful?
Would it allow sellers to feel relaxed about posting items to random none registered
persons?
Would it allow troublesome exregistered members to cause trouble behind new masks?
Would it be cheaper than sellers putting 2 x BL bussiness cards in every order
for the buyers to pass on?
What you have here is a fantastic global network of sellers and buyers. The buyers
buy, and the sellers sell. If you want the buyers money, then you need to promote
BL first and foremost. Whilst self promotion might be great for a more personal
sale, the sales are taking place here because of BL, and as such it is BL that
should be promoted firstly. If as a seller you are confident about the shop you
have, then it should be no problem for you as a seller to activly promote BL
with the assistance of your buyers.
"Lego bricks" in the g##gle search engine; and where is BL? ooh I could by a
newspaper from there 
Regards
#######
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I think it might be useful and help promote BrickLink if sellers were able to
have a very limited number of pre-registered BrickLink accounts they could give
to potential buyers at Lego shows and other events. These accounts would be pre-registered
by a seller and have a pre-selected username and ONE-TIME password(1). They could
be used by any unregistered buyer immediately AT ANY BRICKLINK SHOP(2)(3). All
the buyer would need to do to use this account would be to fill in their name
and address and the one-time password when submitting an order. The check-out
procedure would need to be tweaked to accomodate these particular accounts by
asking for a name and shipping address when checking out.
These accounts would enable new buyers to place a SINGLE trial order on BrickLink.
If they want to place multiple orders on brickLink, they would need to upgrade
to a regular account by going through the normal registration process. Also,
to prevent sellers from abusing this or hoarding new buyers for themselves, each
seller would be limited in the number of any such UNUSED accounts open at one
time. For example, perhaps we could limit these special pre-registered accounts
to one, two or three (at the most) per seller. When one is used, the seller can
then create a new one.
Yes, this will entail some work to implement. But when you consider that almost
half the buyers on BrickLink are casual non-AFOL buyers who only place a single
order and that many other potential buyers are lost because they don't understand
or can't be bothered with first registering for BrickLink, these pre-registered
accounts could create a lot more business for BrickLink and result in even more
buyers registering for a normal account after they have a good experience with
these pre-registered accounts.
OK folks, blast away - or brainstorm with ideas on how to make this suggestion
better or more doable.
Thor
(1) These password would be usuable only once TO PLACE A SINGLE ORDER. These
accounts would not be able to be used to open a store, sell, post in the forum
or chat, or do anything else on BrickLink that requires a password. They exist
only for the limited purpose of allowing invited potential buyers to place one
order.
(2) To address the concerns of any sellers who might not want to receive orders
from such buyers, a seller would have to opt in to accepting these orders. If
the buyer tries to shop or place an order with a seller who does not accept orders
from such accounts, a notice would appear politely informing the buyer that their
account is only a limited trial one accepted by a limited number of sellers (with
a link to a page listing the sellers who accept orders from such accounts) and
inviting them to upgrade their account to a normal registered member.
(3) To encourage sellers to give out these accounts at Lego shows or whatever,
perhaps the buyer could be sent to the issuing seller's store when they first
enter BrickLink using this pre-registered account. But, of course, the buyer
can still leave that store and order from another BL seller if they want.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | mnementh | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:05 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Balpherus writes:
| | "Lego bricks" in the g##gle search engine; and where is BL? ooh I could by a
newspaper from there
|
What are you talking about?
I did just what you said, put "LEGO Bricks" into the Google Search Box, and where
is BrickLink?
Right there at #6, right after all the official LEGO pages and the Google shopping
results, and before the Wikipedia listing.
I'm not sure that you can rightfully expect it to be ranked any higher.
Troy
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|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | tEoS | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 23:56 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| A search on "Buy Lego" or "Purchase Lego" will yield BL as #1 below the sponsored
links. Yes, even above shop.lego.(you know). It ain't hard to find.
| | | | "Lego bricks" in the g##gle search engine; and where is BL? ooh I could by a
newspaper from there
|
What are you talking about?
I did just what you said, put "LEGO Bricks" into the Google Search Box, and where
is BrickLink?
Right there at #6, right after all the official LEGO pages and the Google shopping
results, and before the Wikipedia listing.
I'm not sure that you can rightfully expect it to be ranked any higher.
Troy
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_218581 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 04:17 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Hi
In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
| | A search on "Buy Lego" or "Purchase Lego" will yield BL as #1 below the sponsored
links. Yes, even above shop.lego.(you know). It ain't hard to find.
|
Clearly this is showing that you found the search hit at #1, Troy at #6, and
well, let me see....... ah yes You searched with a different phrase than
either of us, clearly indicating that you have increased the BL hit by using
these other search criteria.
Well it would be easy, really easy if every person doing a search for lego put
Bricklink.com in the search box.
Maybe I was lying, maybe I avoided http://www.bricklink.com for years. All those
people talking about it and saying this is the place to buy lego. My eyes were
blinded to the BL site at #1 and #6 due to years of refusal to admit it was real.
I like to find places that sell just what I've been looking for, and then pretend
they don't exist.
I had never heard of this place, nor has anyone I know. (not that I would like
this to represent the type of people I know, or in any way reflect upon their
worldly knowledge) That said, it did not put me off buying from here.
It is easy to find now I know it is here.
Perhaps if I had been to a brick fair? and met with Legos fans.
Or maybe the new members are you are looking for are just regular fans, not hardened
fans with Legos knowledge?
Kind Regards
Philp
| |
| | | | "Lego bricks" in the g##gle search engine; and where is BL? ooh I could by a
newspaper from there
|
What are you talking about?
I did just what you said, put "LEGO Bricks" into the Google Search Box, and where
is BrickLink?
Right there at #6, right after all the official LEGO pages and the Google shopping
results, and before the Wikipedia listing.
I'm not sure that you can rightfully expect it to be ranked any higher.
Troy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | BLUSER_218581 | | Posted: | Oct 18, 2010 03:51 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mnementh writes:
| | In Suggestions, Balpherus writes:
| | "Lego bricks" in the g##gle search engine; and where is BL? ooh I could by a
newspaper from there
|
What are you talking about?
|
I am talking about the search results that come up. Whilst the issue of this
topic was to get new people on the site, then why not take some advice from a
new member?
| |
I did just what you said, put "LEGO Bricks" into the Google Search Box, and where
is BrickLink?
Right there at #6, right after all the official LEGO pages and the Google shopping
results, and before the Wikipedia listing.
|
Perhaps if you lived in the UK, and you were doing a UK search, then you would
have #6 as shopping results. Not BL, it is easy to expect different search results
from different countries.
| |
I'm not sure that you can rightfully expect it to be ranked any higher.
Troy
|
If the search result had been at number six, then I would have been at BL with
much more ease.
Philip.
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| | | | | Author: | goshe7 | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2010 21:57 | | Subject: | Re: Pre-Registered Accounts | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | I think it might be useful and help promote BrickLink if sellers were able to
have a very limited number of pre-registered BrickLink accounts they could give
to potential buyers at Lego shows and other events. These accounts would be pre-registered
by a seller and have a pre-selected username and ONE-TIME password(1). They could
be used by any unregistered buyer immediately AT ANY BRICKLINK SHOP(2)(3). All
the buyer would need to do to use this account would be to fill in their name
and address and the one-time password when submitting an order. The check-out
procedure would need to be tweaked to accomodate these particular accounts by
asking for a name and shipping address when checking out.
|
I don't see registration as that much of a barrier. In addition to supplying
the info above, the new user picks a username, password, security question, and
opts for some preferences.
I'll admit I'm annoyed when I place an order online and have to create a user
account. But everybody does it (grrrrrrr). If somebody has something
I want at a price I'm willing to pay, I'll accept those terms, no matter how
much I grumble about it.
| | These accounts would enable new buyers to place a SINGLE trial order on BrickLink.
If they want to place multiple orders on brickLink, they would need to upgrade
to a regular account by going through the normal registration process. Also,
to prevent sellers from abusing this or hoarding new buyers for themselves, each
seller would be limited in the number of any such UNUSED accounts open at one
time. For example, perhaps we could limit these special pre-registered accounts
to one, two or three (at the most) per seller. When one is used, the seller can
then create a new one.
Yes, this will entail some work to implement. But when you consider that almost
half the buyers on BrickLink are casual non-AFOL buyers who only place a single
order and that many other potential buyers are lost because they don't understand
or can't be bothered with first registering for BrickLink, these pre-registered
accounts could create a lot more business for BrickLink and result in even more
buyers registering for a normal account after they have a good experience with
these pre-registered accounts.
|
How is FB handled? No FB can be left by trial buyers? If they are one-time
buyers, odds are slim of them coming back to leave FB. And I'm not sure they
have the same expectations as a more seasoned BrickLinker (i.e. negative FB when
they didn't understand S&H charges in the store terms). FB the buyer receives
is transferred to their account if they register on BL? I would like that since
many sellers are tentative with new users and each of those first FB is precious.
| |
OK folks, blast away - or brainstorm with ideas on how to make this suggestion
better or more doable.
Thor
(1) These password would be usuable only once TO PLACE A SINGLE ORDER. These
accounts would not be able to be used to open a store, sell, post in the forum
or chat, or do anything else on BrickLink that requires a password. They exist
only for the limited purpose of allowing invited potential buyers to place one
order.
(2) To address the concerns of any sellers who might not want to receive orders
from such buyers, a seller would have to opt in to accepting these orders. If
the buyer tries to shop or place an order with a seller who does not accept orders
from such accounts, a notice would appear politely informing the buyer that their
account is only a limited trial one accepted by a limited number of sellers (with
a link to a page listing the sellers who accept orders from such accounts) and
inviting them to upgrade their account to a normal registered member.
|
I like the idea of allowing an opt-out. I would think these accounts run a much
higher rate of NPB if the potential buyer cannot even be minorly inconvenienced
with registering an account here. But I think that also gives a negative impression
on BrickLink. Lots of people seem to be offended when they are stoplisted from
a shop; even when they know the reason! Just think of how a new user would feel
to be told, "Sorry, but I don't deal with people like you."
| | (3) To encourage sellers to give out these accounts at Lego shows or whatever,
perhaps the buyer could be sent to the issuing seller's store when they first
enter BrickLink using this pre-registered account. But, of course, the buyer
can still leave that store and order from another BL seller if they want.
|
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USA, North Carolina
United Kingdom, Scotland
Canada, Ontario
Belgium, Brussels
United Kingdom, England
