Redisplay Messages: Compact | Brief | All | Full Show Messages: All | Without Replies| Author: | matthewcrandall  | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2011 14:54 | | Subject: | Re: Do not categorize incomplete sets as "NEW" | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | In Suggestions, matthewcrandall writes:
| | In Suggestions, matthewcrandall writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | Snip
Doc, I like your vision (mine as well...) BUT
Yes there is big BUT...
OK, opened polybags means 'used' to you, right?
But still we buy 'new' parts from a lot of seller (from opened polybags).
So what is the difference? you buy 'new' spare parts to complete a set or build
a MOC, or you buy 'new' sets with opened polybags from a seller who who opened
the bags to check if 'complete' (after a possible doubtfull purchase), it still
'new' according to the TOS, since 'new' can be used to part-out sets... (one
can re-compile a set by buying 'new' spare parts)
I do agree on the missing minifigs however, state 'complete' but without 'minifigs'
is in indeed not complying with the TOS...
Cheers, Eric
|
Eric--
You missed a major point: this thread is in regard to sets, not parts.
Parts from sets, PAB, S@H, or generally loose brick is another story.
I'm not as fussy with that, unless I must have "new" parts, used parts
are fine. In this case, "new" parts generally have to come from opened sets,
and if bought as a set then parted out, can (and should) be marked new. I have
no problem with parts marked accordingly.
Sets, though...to me, a set is a set, not parts of a set. Like I said: You wouldn't
buy a set that was opened and the polybags opened from a brick and mortar store
at full price; you'd demand (and rightfully so) a discount. Without building
it in the store prior to purchase, how would you know all the parts and minifigs
were in such a set? You couldn't. It wouldn't be a new set--at best, used...at
worst, incomplete. If a seller has made a purchase for resale of a set that is
a "doubtful" purchase, and has then opened the polybags to verify parts, that
is just not a new set anymore. It has been totally opened and now parts and directions
can get lost/swapped, or minifigs can be removed/replaced. (That's why I like
the seals intact on the box.)
Side note: Please, please note I am not accusing any seller here of anything.
I am saying the potential is there for such foolishness.
Hope this helps clarify my point a bit--
Play Well and Prosper,
Doc Crandall
"The Brick Detective"
|
Here's a thought that just hit me on a way to consider a new set: A new set
is one that you'd be willing to give your 6 year old child for a Christmas or
birthday gift. Think about how picky and impressionable a 6 year old child
is....
Doc
|
Sorry Doc,
you were 6 years old one time in life, I was 6 years old one time in life, my
12 year old son was 6 years old some time in his life, at the age of 6 you couldn't
care less of the wrapping paper, neither the box, neither the polybags, YOU (me,
him) just want to 'wrip' open the package and start to BUILD... Only die hard
collectors (AFOLS mainly) would (and do) care for the 'perfect' box...
|
You just made my point: The 6 year old child wants to rip open the box and polybags
themselves! They can't do that if someone else beat them to it.
Doc
|
 |
| Author: | matthewcrandall | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2011 14:53 | | Subject: | Re: Do not categorize incomplete sets as "NEW" | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | Doc,
I didn't miss anything... I'm just raising questions...
An example: I bought a 'New' set on Ebay (is that a reference? LOL), paid it,
got it...
Mounths later I sell it (luckely noy through BL) as 'New'. When I started packing
it I noticed a very slight discrepancy in the box, I checked weight and... Not
correct. I opned box (clearly 'AGAIN') and noticed BI was missing, some lose
parts in the box (normal) and all polybags closed (I didn't recehck them). If
I sold it on BL and you purchased it (AND I didn't check it), what would your
recetion be on the missing BI? would you contact TLG (set not available for over
5 years!! so they can't help you) or your seller? Would you not be more comfortable
with a seller saying, set opened to verify content (complete)??? After all, that
seller is honest.. (I read some posts in the past were people would get actually
partially builded 'new' sets)...
If I recompile a set and I'm particulary buying new parts to do so, is the set
'new' or not??? TLG is handling the parts, my seller is handling the parts, I'm
handling the parts, so not 'New' then?
If I buy new parts on BL WITH the intention of selling them here on BL, aren't
they new then?
Yes, I do understand the meaning of a 'new' set... But what is a 'new' set? I
read posts of people who received 'new' sets from TLG in louzy condition (badly
wrapped), as a buyer, would you not prefer to buy a set that has been opened
and 'checked', with a perfect box, in stead of buying a 'sealed' one, without
having a clue on the conditio of the box (or it's completeness?).
Just raising questions (not acting the way people might think right now)...
|
Eric--
It's a good discussion. I am in no way offended; you raise good questions.
I very rarely buy new sets on BL or any other online place, so I'm not in a position
to answer. With a LEGO store within 100 miles and several stores in my area that
have good prices, I go there...no sales tax in Oregon, and no shipping. I have
had very few issues with S@H.
On an older "new" set...if it has been opened and inspected for completeness,
it's unused. (I might accept "new" for a set pre-1985.) But I don't want anyone
opening a set to inspect parts unless the box is so damaged it's worthless. (In
which case, someone else in this thread has made an excellent reply to that claim.
Like I said: A new set is one that you'd be willing to give your 6 year old
child for a Christmas or birthday gift.
Doc
|
|
| Author: | matthewcrandall | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2011 14:38 | | Subject: | Re: Do not categorize incomplete sets as "NEW" | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, matthewcrandall writes:
| | In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | Snip
Doc, I like your vision (mine as well...) BUT
Yes there is big BUT...
OK, opened polybags means 'used' to you, right?
But still we buy 'new' parts from a lot of seller (from opened polybags).
So what is the difference? you buy 'new' spare parts to complete a set or build
a MOC, or you buy 'new' sets with opened polybags from a seller who who opened
the bags to check if 'complete' (after a possible doubtfull purchase), it still
'new' according to the TOS, since 'new' can be used to part-out sets... (one
can re-compile a set by buying 'new' spare parts)
I do agree on the missing minifigs however, state 'complete' but without 'minifigs'
is in indeed not complying with the TOS...
Cheers, Eric
|
Eric--
You missed a major point: this thread is in regard to sets, not parts.
Parts from sets, PAB, S@H, or generally loose brick is another story.
I'm not as fussy with that, unless I must have "new" parts, used parts
are fine. In this case, "new" parts generally have to come from opened sets,
and if bought as a set then parted out, can (and should) be marked new. I have
no problem with parts marked accordingly.
Sets, though...to me, a set is a set, not parts of a set. Like I said: You wouldn't
buy a set that was opened and the polybags opened from a brick and mortar store
at full price; you'd demand (and rightfully so) a discount. Without building
it in the store prior to purchase, how would you know all the parts and minifigs
were in such a set? You couldn't. It wouldn't be a new set--at best, used...at
worst, incomplete. If a seller has made a purchase for resale of a set that is
a "doubtful" purchase, and has then opened the polybags to verify parts, that
is just not a new set anymore. It has been totally opened and now parts and directions
can get lost/swapped, or minifigs can be removed/replaced. (That's why I like
the seals intact on the box.)
Side note: Please, please note I am not accusing any seller here of anything.
I am saying the potential is there for such foolishness.
Hope this helps clarify my point a bit--
Play Well and Prosper,
Doc Crandall
"The Brick Detective"
|
Here's a thought that just hit me on a way to consider a new set: A new set
is one that you'd be willing to give your 6 year old child for a Christmas or
birthday gift. Think about how picky and impressionable a 6 year old child
is....
Doc
|
|
| Author: | matthewcrandall | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2011 14:20 | | Subject: | Re: Do not categorize incomplete sets as "NEW" | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | Snip
Doc, I like your vision (mine as well...) BUT
Yes there is big BUT...
OK, opened polybags means 'used' to you, right?
But still we buy 'new' parts from a lot of seller (from opened polybags).
So what is the difference? you buy 'new' spare parts to complete a set or build
a MOC, or you buy 'new' sets with opened polybags from a seller who who opened
the bags to check if 'complete' (after a possible doubtfull purchase), it still
'new' according to the TOS, since 'new' can be used to part-out sets... (one
can re-compile a set by buying 'new' spare parts)
I do agree on the missing minifigs however, state 'complete' but without 'minifigs'
is in indeed not complying with the TOS...
Cheers, Eric
|
Eric--
You missed a major point: this thread is in regard to sets, not parts.
Parts from sets, PAB, S@H, or generally loose brick is another story.
I'm not as fussy with that, unless I must have "new" parts, used parts
are fine. In this case, "new" parts generally have to come from opened sets,
and if bought as a set then parted out, can (and should) be marked new. I have
no problem with parts marked accordingly.
Sets, though...to me, a set is a set, not parts of a set. Like I said: You wouldn't
buy a set that was opened and the polybags opened from a brick and mortar store
at full price; you'd demand (and rightfully so) a discount. Without building
it in the store prior to purchase, how would you know all the parts and minifigs
were in such a set? You couldn't. It wouldn't be a new set--at best, used...at
worst, incomplete. If a seller has made a purchase for resale of a set that is
a "doubtful" purchase, and has then opened the polybags to verify parts, that
is just not a new set anymore. It has been totally opened and now parts and directions
can get lost/swapped, or minifigs can be removed/replaced. (That's why I like
the seals intact on the box.)
Side note: Please, please note I am not accusing any seller here of anything.
I am saying the potential is there for such foolishness.
Hope this helps clarify my point a bit--
Play Well and Prosper,
Doc Crandall
"The Brick Detective"
|
|
| Author: | matthewcrandall | | Posted: | Jan 21, 2011 13:06 | | Subject: | Re: Do not categorize incomplete sets as "NEW" | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
| | | | Thanks for the replies! Solved my issue.
|
Well, not really ...
What if a seller would list a set as being 'sealed', seller purchased in good
'faith' and is reselling in good 'faith', but something turns out to be missing...
According to the BL TOS, sellers are not responsible since they don't know if
a set is complete or not when it leaves the TLG factory. Would you attack the
seller? Or would you attack TLG (you purchased 'second hand' finally), you don't
have prove you purchased it at an 'approved' Lego dealer... (most certainly when
the set you purchased is out of production at TLG)
Wonder what others think about that...
Cheers, Eric
|
Forget the 2 bits. Here's a buck's worth of thought, from a buyer/collector perspective.
If a set is listed as "new"--to me that means new, never opened. That means all
bags are sealed, all minifigs are there, and all seals are intact. If the directions
have a fold in them...my loss. If a part is missing, I don't go after the seller...I
contact LEGO directly to see about replacement parts. If not available...I come
back here and buy the missing parts. It happens. A sealed, never opened box is
new, and "ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances." Once I get something new,
it doesn't stay that way long. I play with my toys, and very few are the unopened
boxes in my collection.
Having said that, it rarely happens to me that parts are missing from new sets.
In the last eleven years (2000-2011), I can count on one finger the number of
parts missing from a new set. In the last 18 years (1993-2011), it doesn't take
three fingers. In fact, it might take four fingers over a forty year plus
span...but I doubt it. LEGO has really worked on the "problem of the missing
part." It does happen...but very, very rarely, in my experience.
A set is not new if the seals are broken. Unused or nearly new, I can see. It
certainly cannot be construed as new if the bags are opened; I don't care if
you were "just checking to see if all the parts were there." Would you buy a
set from TRU or Wal-Mart if the boxes had been opened, the polybags opened, and
"the parts checked for completeness?" Not at full price you wouldn't!
(You'd want it for cost plus 10%, or 50% off, or something like that.)
A set is incomplete if the minifigs are missing...or if any of the parts
are missing. There are so many ways that we know what extra parts should be there
(those who do inventories are very thorough, both here and at Peeron, for example),
that it's a tough sell to me for anything after 1993 to not have the extras and
be considered "new." Prior to 1993, it gets harder. Prior to 1980, it gets difficult.
Prior to 1970...and I think only Gary Istok knows for sure.
When I rebuild/recomplete a set from stuff I get from garage sales, etc., I try
to include the extra parts, and get the directions as often as possible. I like
my sets to be as complete as if I had bought it new then lost the box. (Yeah,
some might think thats a bit anal. It's my collection. Deal with it.)
So, for sets: "New" is new. "Unused" is new, box opened, polybags sealed. "Used"
means polybags have been opened, for any reason. "Incomplete" means parts/minifigs
missing.
Play Well and Prosper,
Doc Crandall
"The Brick Detective"
|
|
| Author: | matthewcrandall | | Posted: | Dec 11, 2010 12:09 | | Subject: | Re: Stop purging data | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, locutis writes:
| | In Suggestions, Reki_Lobsheek writes:
| | as nobody else seems to ask this, I will: to what purpose?
I mean, I wouldn't mind if promise could be made it wouldn't slow down the website,
but I'm just wondering why it would be necessary?
Reki
|
Instead of deleting the data, they could archive it like I have, and move it
to another database. Set a script to run and archive it to an alternate database.
If you want access to the archived information, have it come from the archived
database, which gets a lower priority on the processor then current data.
Why keep data, why not? The storage of a database for the data is nearly free
(500 GB hard drives are $40 currently, and can hold decades of database text
data).
|
Okay, I'll play along...
Why keep some of this archived at all? What purpose does it serve?
I'm not against archiving data; but let's look at what gets archived first. Just
about everything here is considered data.
Off-topic stuff, bad jokes, "cancelled" replies to topics, and "Hi I'm a new
person" entries...is there really a need for that after say, nine months to a
year?
Catalog changes and additions...sure. Those need to be kept. But a lot of that
gets looked at, so it should remain on the main server. That's a lot of entries
right there. I'm not sure how it works, but store inventories probably exist
somewhere, too.
Then there's the questions that come up: how often do you move stuff to the archives?
Annually? Quarterly? And, there has to be a way to access and search those archived
items easily. That takes a little time; each item has to have a separate entry
to be totally searchable. Yes, I know you can set a script to run the transfer.
But there has to be a script ready to go, or it has to be written.
Yes, I understand memory is cheap these days. But it still has to be purchased,
installed, configured, and those items archived moved and made accessible...and
all without disrupting service so that everyone doesn't have a fit. (I would
say this time of year would be a bad time for the service to be down for more
than an hour, for example.)
I'd rather have faster processing server(s), and some very selective pruning
of data. Where I sit, that pays better dividends in the long run.
Play Well and Prosper,
Doc Crandall
"The Brick Detective"
|
|
| Author: | matthewcrandall | | Posted: | Oct 20, 2010 14:47 | | Subject: | Re: Allow Banned Subjects. | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TorontoLego writes:
| | I propose that the Forum rules that outlaw discussion of Religion or Politics
should be lifted in times of
"Extreme discourse".
|
Not just no....
I belong to enough groups that have areas like that and/or allow posts like that.
I come to LEGO sites to get AWAY from some of that, especially in the
midst of election season. 
I find there's enough to argue about just in brick-related issues, anyway.
Play Well,
Doc Crandall
"The Brick Detective"
|
|
USA, Oregon
