BrickLink Discussion Forum

In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:

Seems like a lot of work for minimal and questionable benefit. Plus some potential
problems as others have noted.

Sorry, but if the item is going to sell quickly anyway (like the example you
used to support this suggestion), what does BrickLink need this for? Maybe it
is just me, but I don't really think it is a problem that someone else bought
it first. First come, first served. The seller got the price he wanted and
the (first) buyer got a nice figure for a price he was willing to pay. Those
who were too slow to order just have to act faster next time. And the existing
Wanted List feature can already quickly tip them off when new things are listed.

Thor

Remember in the references thread about SW102, the buyer stated publicly he would
pay $$$ for the figure.

Also, the wanted list for this particular item wastes part of his time because
he is looking for a variation on the item. So he gets an e-mail every time one
is listed and most of them are going to be the wrong one.

Now asking, what are the benefits of such a feature is a question.

benefits I see are as follows:

Buyers would be able to place 1 order instead of several if they have the time
to wait

Collectors could put out specifics on items they want without have to browse
many stores to see if the items meet their needs

Sellers could actively initiate more business for themselves.

Buyers could save money by getting parts for less money, not guaranteed, but
he is my example:

I have 1200+ 3004 in blue. Cheapest in the USA is .03 at the amount. If I know
I could unload them all in an order RIGHT NOW for .025 each, they'd be gone.
Buyer wins, Seller wins

Item hasn't sold in at least 6 months, there is no price guide on sales.
Buyers are posting what they are WILLING to pay, it can help me price my item,
maybe perhaps above what buyers are willing to pay and below what the cheapest
for sale is INSTEAD of just undercutting the lowest available by a penny to be
the lowest for sale.

This would also help with items that have 0 for sale as well.

Thanks

Ken

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 26, 2016 08:24

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

24 times

Topic:

In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:

I prefer the view point that this site is for people to connect and share Lego
for the pleasure of it. So I ask myself would this feature assist in this.
And YES it would.

It isn't for that though, is it?

It is why it was created...

It is for selling and buying LEGO. And for
money, not for pleasure.

Well, with the new ownership, I don't know what it is for anymore.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 26, 2016 08:22

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

30 times

Topic:

You can’t have a market place that works in all the ways (street market, stock
exchange, auction, Dutch auction, raffle, Chinese auction, etc.) at the same
time, for the same items to boot.

There used to auctions on BL, I thought it was a great feature and I don't
remember why it was taken down, it was removed during my first year here and
I didn't spend much time in the forums then...because there was chat

For now, BL is a street market: sellers propose products at a price, buyers pick
and choose. BL provides the “street” and a little police. If you set up those
“bids” and “requests,” BL would become a stock exchange.

commodity exchange but I also do think we should allow "futures"

I’m not interested in if one type is good or bad, or better or worse. I’m just
saying they are two different kinds of market places. You could have both in
parallel but that’d be two different market places.
As QCBricks explains, you can’t have bits of one in the other without changing
the rules and disrupting the market. Either you totally change the place, or
you create another, totally separated, place.

Again, I have pointed out a basic idea, and for all I know, this already happens,
I get messages all the time from buyers saying they will pay an amount for something
I have in my store trying to get a deal.

Also, we complain about "slumps" in sales during certain times of the year.
I would think that some sellers would like to actively gain business during this
time of year by connecting with those people who wants items at a discount.

All the comments about "disrupting this or that" can't we all agree that
the biggest "disruption" in this "marketplace" is the cutthroat nature of the
constant under cutting of prices, mainly because there is a certain percentage
of sellers that don't care about making a profit or have NO IDEA HOW TO MAKE
MONEY...

The worries about jacking up prices already happens in the FORUM, the OP of the
thread I posted just alerted tons of sellers that there is a demand for a particular
figure with a printing variation.

Prior to his post, I did not know of this. Now I know and if I come across this
figure you can bet the price is going to be higher that if I just looked at the
price guide.

I gave a basic idea, of course I did not outline every exact idea of implementation,
and I know the idea is not going to get implemented, because nothing from the
suggestions does. I wanted to point out and discuss a way that would help people
complete their collections. I obviously see that more people here are concerned
with small little details than connecting people with what they want...

Thanks,

Ken

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 26, 2016 08:11

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

27 times

Topic:

So you don't see a single consequence of potentially providing this information
freely?

I prefer the view point that this site is for people to connect and share Lego
for the pleasure of it. So I ask myself would this feature assist in this.
And YES it would.

If all you do is consider the negatives, nothing will ever get done, there is
no such feature that if you implemented it, everything would be 100% positive.
Any change in the buying/selling experience will have pluses and minuses.

I think the pluses in helping people who have Lego get it to those who do not
are greater than the minuses with the suggestion, thus I made the suggestion.

Think of the dire consequences of allowing Joe Schmoes across the world to open
up a store on a whim and list rare items they don't have, think of all the
possible scams. Better not allow that...

What if it crowded out certain buyers? What if it allowed certain sellers
to corner the market on a rare item?

I believe this already happens thanks to the price guide

What if it allowed high dollar buyers to
just shut out small buyers on a limited budget?

I'll give a specific example from our business. There are a few parts that
we use in projects that have a very high margin for us at retail. In some cases
we buy as many as 60-80% of a specific part that is listed on BL in a given month.
In some cases the going rate on BL is just 20-30% of what we are willing
to pay. We'll often buy them at 2-3 times (or more) of the BL average
price if a seller has a decent quantity.

I don't think it could be any simpler...don't use the feature. Boom,
problem solved...

Do you realize what would happen if we chose to make that information public
that we were willing to buy large quantities at 300% of the average price for
a certain part?

Forget for a second that we would probably pay more as sellers
simply met our higher than average "maximum price", but think about all the other
buyers who are only willing to pay the current average price.

Now their parts are potentially 3 times more expensive.

Again, great for BL's fees, great for sellers, great for the buyers willing
to buy at a higher price, but terrible for all the other buyers.

Scott

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 25, 2016 15:48

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

28 times

Topic:

In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:

There is a difference that the buyer chooses to buy at that time.

A buyer putting up a wants list at $x moves the power from buyer to seller. If
the price drops and the buyer does not cancel their list quick enough, then the
seller decides the sale goes ahead and forces (or tries to force) the buyer to
pay what is now over the odds.

If it was a nonbinding quote, that would be better.

This was already brought up.

If you as a buyer put out "I want a SW102 for $25" (just a hypothetical) and
a seller comes along with what you want and answers your open bid. And you purchase
it, YOU got what you wanted for the price you were willing to pay.

If the prices DROP or were already dropping and you didn't pay attention,
what is the difference on how the transaction was completed?

This happens all the time. This could happen with auctions on the other site.
You could place a bid to win an item on a 30 day auction and the very same
seller could start selling the same exact item for less, and then at the end
of the auction, you would still be obligated to purchase. In reality, I don't
think prices change THAT fast.

I could see where rare items might go up in price, but I could also see them
going down.

If there is a buyer out there that says I will commit to buy a New Sealed - Mr.
Gold for $1,200 and no Mr. Gold is listed at that price, but a seller wants to
move their merchandise, this now brings the price for the item DOWN. Also, sellers
can use such a tool on where to price rare items that might not have had one
move for 6 months...

Thanks

Ken

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 25, 2016 15:02

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

29 times

Topic:

On the other hand, a ton of information can be inferred from knowing who makes
the huge orders (I am talking $500-$1000+ or 5k+ parts) and what it is that they
order. I am sure that many buyers making those sorts of orders would not be
comfortable making that information freely available. Savvy sellers will find
the cracks in that system and exploit to make more money from buyers. If the
buyer is doing custom work or reselling, they might not want to provide potential
competitors with information. And so on...

New sellers could also see what "big buyers" want and could strive to keep those
things in inventory or build their inventory to meet the demands. Of course
Big Sellers won't like this because it is just another avenue for competition.

Again, I see this as an opportunity to benefit both buyers and sellers, although
some buyers and some sellers might not benefit (if 1 order is place in 1 store,
instead of 2 orders in 2 stores) and some buyers might not benefit from items
not "hitting the free market"

Also, in terms of a "system" savy people will always find cracks and other bugs
to exploit. I'm convinced this already goes on with bricklink.

Thanks,

Ken

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 25, 2016 14:49

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

31 times

Topic:

This is exactly why it would probably work for a single minifig or a single rare
part. Not much can be assumed from just that single piece of information.

On the other hand, a ton of information can be inferred from knowing who makes
the huge orders (I am talking $500-$1000+ or 5k+ parts) and what it is that they
order. I am sure that many buyers making those sorts of orders would not be
comfortable making that information freely available. Savvy sellers will find
the cracks in that system and exploit to make more money from buyers. If the
buyer is doing custom work or reselling, they might not want to provide potential
competitors with information. And so on...

Then don't use it...??? it isn't that hard to understand, the suggestion
is to make the service available to those who would want to use it.

If you have these concerns, don't use it. If you want to try to get bulk
parts cheaper, use it.

I can spell out tons of reasons NOT to use the forum, but people chose to stay
out and people chose to use it.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 24, 2016 15:58

Subject:

Re: Banned from forum

Viewed:

99 times

Topic:

In Suggestions, ScootersBricks writes:

A message or email to the poster would be an excellent compromise. Basically
a PM that says, "you have been banned from the forum for x days due to reason:"
If you have any questions please refer to our forum rules at (link). I doubt
many members get banned on a daily basis so it would add a minute or two of work
but may save a lot of time from threads like this.

when I got my forum ban, I didn't break ANY rule, but a moderator used deductive
reasoning skills, albeit WRONGLY, to assume I broke a rule, week ban

I wish it would have been public, because people could have called out the mods
for an incorrect ban. I tried to appeal in messages, but the mod would not admit
their mistake.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 24, 2016 15:10

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

41 times

Topic:

In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:

As a buyer, I'm not sure that I would tell a seller what I was willing to
pay.

no, we just tell them what we ACTUALLY paid in the catalog. If you don't
want to tell sellers, don't use the feature. I figured this would be for
LARGE orders or rare items.

There would also be the problem that the buyer would have to manage their list
carefully if a seller could make the order. For example, if something is announced
that changes prices very quickly, then a seller could fulfill the order knowing
the price is going to drop before the buyer gets a chance to cancel the request.

You could always cancel according to the current bricklink process, most sellers
will cancel no problem, a few are pricks about it.

It could be programmed for the buyer to post with an expiration date. but this
can happen already, you buy something and the price drops, don't good business
people do what they can to sell stuff for has high as possible when the prices
are going down? If you as a buyer say I will buy 5 bricks for a dollar each
and some one says sure, I'll sell you those 5 bricks for a dollar each, and
you buy them, then a week later they are selling for 50 cents each? That is
life, you've never had buyer's remorse?

Then there is also the problem of having stuff in hand. What happens if the seller
agrees to fulfill, then cannot get the parts they are missing?

People already "unofficially" do this, look at the thread and all the people
that gave the OP right of first refusal on the sw102, this isn't much different

I think it would be a boom for buyers that want bulk quantity bricks BUT don't
need them right away.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 24, 2016 14:16

Subject:

Re: Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

49 times

Topic:

I think that the problem here is that making one's WL public can have some
unintended consequences. Let's say that a buyer is know for making high
dollar purchases and/or wants a large quantity. If they make public that they
must have 5,000 of part X, then it is possible that the first seller to have
5,000 of part X will just jack up the price of that item once they are listed
knowing that the buyer "needs" them. Without that knowledge the seller may just
offer them at the regular price.

But then the buyer might not make a sale. If they jack up the price too much,
the buyer will buy from two or more stores. I would suspect this feature would
cause buyers to pay a little more to 1 seller, but less over all to multiple
sellers in shipping and handling fees.

I think this is great for sellers and not so great for buyers.

The best feature for sellers, it that when sales are slow, I can go out and fish
for orders

Also, if you a buyer that doesn't need parts right away, I could open a bid
for 300 of part X for $XXX.XX and wait until any sellers will take it.

A better system

would be something like a person offering to act as a "personal shopper" for
a buyer and do the hunting/buying/etc for them.

Scott

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 24, 2016 12:41

Subject:

Open Bids and Purchase Requests

Viewed:

249 times

Topic:

Status:

Open

Vote:

[Yes|No]

Look and this recent thread:

http://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=205650&nID=988369

buy looking for

[m=sw102]

with a certain print. One pops up and boom, gone before he could get it, then
buyer posts they will offer $$$$ for it.

This is a good example that fits a feature for BL to implement (like they ever
would though) to produce more sales.

This feature would work with the wanted lists or single items. One could simply
put a wanted list on the open market. No single store has everything in your
wanted list? Maybe a store has 90% of the items, that store is willing to buy
the other 3-4 items and ship you your entire wanted list, 1 order for the buyer,
just as many sales for bricklink, sellers eat shipping or build into the price.

Also, how about rare items? The user in the above thread was willing to pay
$$$ for it. Perhaps someone holding the said item wants just a few more dollars
that what is listed for sale. The buyer in the above thread could say I am willing
to pay $75 for the correct sw102. Then anyone with that figure could browse
the OPEN BIDS for such an item.

How would it work?

I upload my wanted list

lets just say 1000 part A, 2000 part B and 3000 Part C, I am willing to pay $X,
then sellers could elect to fulfill this order or not. The buyer can upload
all the requirements, price, shipping, ship by date etc. Sellers could offer
counters, maybe they could get everything for just a few $ more.

This is the summary to vote yes or no

"Bricklink please develop a method of completing transactions in which the BUYER
can dictate the ITEMS and TERMS and SELLERS can elect to fulfill such order or
offer COUNTERs. Once a SELLER elects to fulfill an order, it goes into the system
as Bricklink order XXXX and the terms are now the terms in dictated in the open
bid"

Thanks

Ken
Brick It Yourself

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 24, 2016 10:57

Subject:

Re: on site payment and e-check

Viewed:

36 times

Topic:

In Suggestions, My_Precious writes:

In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:

Please do not allow an order to auto-update to "paid" when a member pays via
on-site payment with an e-check. The order is not paid for yet, the buyer has
only initiated payment.

This particular case lifted a NPB, but the buyer has not paid. Now, if the e-check
bounces, I will have to start the NPB all over again.

Again, when people pay via an e-check, via paypal, using on-site payment, the
system automatically marks the order as paid.

Please fix this bug.

Thanks,

Ken
Brick It Yourself

If someone has no credit and no debit/credit card linked to their account only
a bank account, then there is basically a delay whilst paypal waits for the money
from the bank, they won't give you it until it clears so it can take a while.

I've only had it on one small order before and someone else said paypal onsite
was trying to send an e cheque until they noticed and stopped it.

I'm not sure if you can setup a paypal account to not accept e cheque at
all?

I don't mind accepting e-checks, nothing against this form of payment.

The problem is Bricklink saying an order is paid and removing a NPB when that
is not the case.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 24, 2016 09:27

Subject:

on site payment and e-check

Viewed:

149 times

Topic:

Status:

Open

Vote:

[Yes|No]

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

May 23, 2016 10:55

Subject:

Re: Banned from forum

Viewed:

165 times

Topic:

Because posting it in public will not be educational. It also has nothing to
do with questioning my authority. All it will get us is a 150 post long thread
where supporters of each side argue their case about why someone should or should
not have been banned.

lol, was looking at this suggestion from a few years ago

trying to prevent 150 post threads is like trying block the sun...

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 13:01

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

Viewed:

51 times

Topic:

No, because it is not intended to limit prices and its primary effect is not
to limit prices or restrain trade. There is simply a practical limit to how many
digits you can enter into any given box or machine. Legality does not require
giving members the means to price something to infinity or 50 digits out.

Primary effect is not to limit prices or restrain trade...

Thanks for using this language. Because what prevents putting in BEHAVOIR restrictions
that might do this, but again, it is not the primary reason to limit prices or
restrict trade?

Again, putting practical retractions on selling behavior.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 12:25

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

Viewed:

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Topic:

And I will also remind you again that my objection to your suggestion is not
merely based on legal concerns. Like others who posted here, I simply don't
like the idea of BrickLink telling sellers what they should price things at or
punishing them for not having the "right" prices.

Technically, bricklink already dictates a "price window" I cannot price a part
less than $0.001 and I typed in a boatload of numbers and at some point the system
won't allow me to sell for that high of a price, whatever the max input is
for a price, there is a limit.

So is this illegal? Why can't I sell a part for $0.0001 or fifty bazillion
dollars?

If bricklink adopted a "listing policy" that states the behavior of pricing items
in a manner to divert traffic to your store that requires buyers to purchase
unwanted items is prohibited OR it could remove items bound in super lots from
wanted list searches.

Either one is not price fixing, it is setting standards of selling behavior.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 12:16

Subject:

Re: The simple solution is "give us the median Price"

Viewed:

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Topic:

In Suggestions, graphite37 writes:

In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:

In Suggestions, DallasBricks writes:

All of this goes away if Bricklink will either replace the average with the median
price or Add the median price as a part out value option.

David

Again, this is only half the issue, no one is addressing the fact that sellers
can manipulate this data to drive traffic (mostly unwanted) to their stores,
this is with Super Lot binding and also making absurd prices to drive traffic
to stores.

They could change it so that you set the total price for the superlot and the
prices of the individual items are automatically set to a prorated value based
on the average prices of the items in the lot.

again this formula could be manipulated by adding extra crud lots to the super
lot. but it is an idea in the right direction.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 12:11

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

Viewed:

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Topic:

In Suggestions, 62Bricks writes:

Not sure which terms you're looking at, perhaps the ones for larger businesses.
The language in the terms for individual sellers really couldn't be simpler:

this was the price listing requirements for Kindle Direct Publishing,

hmm, amazon dictates the minimum and the maximum.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 11:56

Subject:

Re: The simple solution is "give us the median Price"

Viewed:

38 times

Topic:

In Suggestions, ToriHada writes:

In Suggestions, BrickItYourself writes:

In Suggestions, DallasBricks writes:

All of this goes away if Bricklink will either replace the average with the median
price or Add the median price as a part out value option.

David

I have an easy solution to this. Whenever I see a seller manipulating the super
lot feature with absurd low and high prices, I don't ask BrickLink to do
anything about it. Instead, I simply least favorite them and shop elsewhere.
And if this manipulation becomes too much, I just exclude all superlots from
showing in my search results.

Thor

yes, but you and I are experienced buyers/sellers, but there are tons of people
that are not

a lot of consumer protection laws are put in place to protect the lowest common
denominator...

Since you are not a seller here anymore, the issue of diverting buyers to sellers
they are not going to buy from isn't something that you have standing in
anymore. But for other sellers, I don't want new and green buyers being
diverted to stores they have no intention on buying from.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 11:51

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

Viewed:

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Topic:

Apology NOT accepted. Not when you continue to deliberately misrepresent things
and preface your farce of an apology with mocking derogatory ad hominem attacks.

I apologized to using a loud tone with my wife last night after operating a chain
saw for about an hour. I was almost screaming because of the ringing in my ears
but didn't realize it. She certainly did not accept my apology because she
could not relate to why I would talk louder after operating a chain saw for an
extended period of time (I was wearing ear muffs, ears were still ringing) she
saw it as a lame excuse.

anyway, it isn't needed to say you don't accept someone's apology,
it does nothing positive.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 11:48

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

Viewed:

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Topic:

explain this:

https://kdp.amazon.com/help?topicId=A301WJ6XCJ8KW0

listings price limits....

again, Price Fixing Laws are in place to PROTECT consumers.

As either a lay person or expert, you should know that there is the intention
of the law and the letter of the law. When arguments are made in court, especially
precedent setting cases, the intention of the law is often brought up to help
interpret the letter of the law.

Bricklink can most certainly do something a long the same lines.

They can also say that the BEHAVOIR of manipulating prices in order to drive
traffic to your store is prohibited. They don't have to say, you must price
at X, Y or Z but rather state the BEHAVOIR that consumers do not want is prohibited.

Using the amazon example, why do they set price limits? What is the purpose?
Who does it protect?

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 11, 2016 11:36

Subject:

Re: The simple solution is "give us the median Price"

Viewed:

40 times

Topic:

In Suggestions, DallasBricks writes:

All of this goes away if Bricklink will either replace the average with the median
price or Add the median price as a part out value option.

David

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 10, 2016 21:17

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

Viewed:

58 times

Topic:

both of your suggestions deal with what is displayed in the price guide, but
does not address people manipulating the price guide to divert traffic to their
stores.

These items would come up on people's wanted lists when they are excluded
from the price guide.

if I list something that usually sells for a penny, but bind it to a WAY over
priced item, I can get a lot of people "in the door" and see other items in my
shop.

This should not be allowed, because it is manipulating the consumer into an action
they would not want to take.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 10, 2016 20:59

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

Viewed:

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Topic:

Hogwash! Nothing would be more blatant illegal price-fixing than BrickLink telling
multiple competing sellers to price things at the same price. It is these sort
of erroneous lay opinions about the law that keep lawyers so busy and well off.

not when people are free to sell elsewhere for what ever price they want.

Also, collusion laws are in place to protect consumers, if bricklink were to
act in the best interest of buyers and sellers to weed out bad seller practices
that actually do manipulate the market place, and in doing so, freeing up the
market place to open and fair competition, I hardly think BL would be sought
out for collusion.

Author:

Made_In_Bricks

Posted:

Apr 10, 2016 20:07

Subject:

Re: Price Manipulating - What Prevention?

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Topic: