Redisplay Messages: Compact | Brief | All | Full Show Messages: All | Without Replies| Author: | legoman77  | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 14:46 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| In Terms and Policies, George_Lucy writes:
| | I just had a trade with a international buyer. It was for almost $700.00. I
gave him 10% off ($70.00) and free shipping (As per my fourm offer) and he gave
me nothing off and his shipping was $35.00. My shipping Express mail insured
was $65.00. I sent he sent.
He then emails me and says he has to pay $200.00 tax to get package because
I declared the value. I had no choice from me it has to match insured value and
custom value. He said I could of sent multiple packages with value under $25.00.
To do that legally meaning actually putting $25.00 worth Lego to match the value
in each package and sending registered mail would of cost me $372.00.
Now he emails me and tells me I should split the diffrence of the tax with
him and he wants $100.00. I still have no product. It is clearly stated on my
splash page and to be honest I am tired of international buyers whinning about
there import resposibility and asking me to lie on documents. It is NOT my problem.
|
In my opinion it is BrickLinks because they refuse to do anything about it.
But it falls back on the seller.
It would be easy for BrickLink to get involved. Send Admin a copy of the email
or refer the Bricklink message. Bricklink could tell the buyer that it is not
acceptable to do this and if there are more incidents they will be removed as
a buyer. Simple and easy, supports the honest sellers, supports honest buyers,
does not support dishonest buyers. This can affect BrickLink as much as NPB
or NSS. If BrickLink can take action there they could take action on this problem
if they wanted to.
John P
|
 |
| Author: | George_Lucy | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 13:07 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 94 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| I just had a trade with a international buyer. It was for almost $700.00. I
gave him 10% off ($70.00) and free shipping (As per my fourm offer) and he gave
me nothing off and his shipping was $35.00. My shipping Express mail insured
was $65.00. I sent he sent.
He then emails me and says he has to pay $200.00 tax to get package because
I declared the value. I had no choice from me it has to match insured value and
custom value. He said I could of sent multiple packages with value under $25.00.
To do that legally meaning actually putting $25.00 worth Lego to match the value
in each package and sending registered mail would of cost me $372.00.
Now he emails me and tells me I should split the diffrence of the tax with
him and he wants $100.00. I still have no product. It is clearly stated on my
splash page and to be honest I am tired of international buyers whinning about
there import resposibility and asking me to lie on documents. It is NOT my problem.
In Terms and Policies, legoman77 writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | This suggestion is a summary of my recommendations, plus input from others' many
private messages I received on this over the last few days that I would like
Admin to consider in the site upgrade.
BACKGROUND AND JUSTIFICATION:-
The BrickLink site has always required its' members, both buyers and sellers,
to trade legally and fairly. This is an essential aspect of the site's reputation
which makes it an attractive venue for buyers and sellers to trade here with
confidence and safety. The continued success of the site and enjoyment of it
experienced by its' members both depend heavilly on this being maintained.
The site continues to grow rapidly and welcomes many mew members, both buyers
and sellers every day. The financial success of the site has indeed secured its'
future beyond the loss of its' inspired founder. In the early days, this site
was a small community and the founder members and early adopters clearly did
a great job in building the principles of the site and policing it in a self-regulatory
way. For the most part this still works today but, as is demonstrated in the
many threads recently, some (buyers and sellers) are falling short of those principles
and indeed the law! This may be driven by the vast increase in membership which
makes this place less "personal" for some and combined with this; the laws and
regulations covering internet trading become more and more complex as governments
focus on the explosion of such trading and their need to close tax loopholes
and try to protect their consumers from substandard trading and scams.
I believe the site and ALL its' members (except for any that come here to do
unfair or illegal trading) will benefit from a more developed policy on safe
and legal trading for both their own protection and for the reputation of the
site in general which should help promote its' continued growth and success.
The following suggestions are simply my thougths on "how" some of the issues
might be addressed taking into account the direct input I have had from several
other members as well as many forum threads over the years but some recent ones
in particular:-
SUGGESTION #1 - EXPAND ON THIS IN TOS:-
TOS #11 REQUIRES the following.
"General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."
Whilst this "covers" the site in demonstrating to authorities its' intent not
to encourage illegal behaviour, in practice it does little or nothing to:
1. Help inform its' members about what those laws might be and where to find
out about them. Many of the problems here (for buyers and sellers) are caused
by a complete lack of knowledge on the relevent laws.
2. Provides no penalty for breaking them which unfortunately is the reason why
some of the intentional law breakers are comming here.
I suggest changing the TOS #11 to spell out some of the specific laws that members
need to comply with, namely:
Customs - sellers are required to complete customs documents as required by law
honestly and accurately which, for the purpose of selling here, means declaring
the sales value of the goods as stated on the invoice and NOT misprepresenting
commercial sales as gifts.
Compliance with local advertising, selling and consumer protection laws - sellers
are required to comply with all relevent laws applicable to their selling activities.
Taxation - prior to listing any items for sale, sellers are advised to check
the rules in their country relating to any taxation they may need to charge their
customers (e.g. sales tax, VAT as applicable) and any requirements to declare
to their tax authorities any sales activity they conduct on this site.
SUGGESTION #2 - MAKE CUSTOMS FRAUD A REPORTABLE OFFENCE:-
Just as we can report listings that do not comply with the TOS, have a similar
funtion where:
1. Sellers can report (with evidence e.g. private message) to Admin that a buyer
requested a fraudulent customs declaration.
2. Buyers can report (with evidence e.g. private message or something in sellers'
terms) that a seller is offering a fraudulent customs declaration.
3. If a penalty is given, just like an NPB or NSS, a buyer or seller can have
feedback removed if it was given in relation to a transaction subject to the
penalty.
4. A buyer or seller has the right to cancel an order without penalty if subject
to a validated request for customs fraud.
Validated reports would result in a penalty ranging from 1st warning, through
temporary suspension of buying or selling rights, to membership termination for
repeat offenders.
SUGGESTION #3 - HAVE A HELP GUIDE ON SAFETY AND THE LAW
Which members have to declare they have read before they can buy or sell on the
site.
Unlike eBay which has legal resources in many of its' markets, BL has a central
Administration which cannot be expected to be expert on these matter in all geographies.
Perhaps we cound have voluntary "country Admins" for this purpose who would be
responsible for maintaining content with an opening statement relevent to their
market and a number of (official government only) links to any laws relating
to internet buying and selling in their country and the official taxation and
customs sites for their country. This must have a legal disclaimer saying these
Admins and the site are not giving legal advice and it is the ultimate responsibility
of the individual member to ensure he/she complies with all applicable laws.
SUGGESTION #4 - HAVE SOME FUNCTION TO PROMPT BUYERS WHEN BUYING INTERNATIONALLY
-
When you put something in a cart of a store not in your country, you are prompted
to look at a page that says something like:-
"You are about to purchase from a store located outside of your country, you
are advised to check if you may be liable for any customs charges relating to
importing this item into your country WHICH ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY before committing
to this purchase. Purchasing from overseas may also limit your rights as a buyer."
Obviously, this needs some more thought! I would not want this message for EVERY
item I put in a store cart, maybe just the 1st one for example. Maybe give an
option "do not show this message again" after a couple of hits on it within a
certain time period.
SUMMING IT UP FOR ME:-
None of this changes anything that is not the intent of the current TOS.
It is not to differentiate between "private" or "business" sellers for any purpose
of promoting one above the other, although for UK at least and many EU countries,
Gareth's suggestion on that would help keep sellers on the right side of the
law so I still support that too. There does seem to be some differences of definition
on that between countries which would need to be addressed further.
This is intended to HELP buyers and sellers comply with their laws and avoid
some of the risks many are taking now through ignorance of them. Being reported
for falling foul of a law or being caught not complying with it in most cases
carries penalties that most people would be pleased to avoid if given a chance
and informing them better simply helps to avoid that possibility 
I would be happy to do more work on this if required as I am passionate about
keeping this a safe, respected place with trading standards that we can ALL be
proud of and enjoy.
CONGRATUALTIONS YOU GOT TO THE END OF THIS POST -
Thank you very much for your time!
Robert
|
Very good and it is something admin should read and think about. BrickLink needs
more active involvement in making requests to do something illegal not proper.
Now they just leave it up to the seller and close their eyes about any suggestion
to make this needed improvement.
John P
|
|
|
| Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 11:37 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 124 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| In Terms and Policies, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | This suggestion is a summary of my recommendations, plus input from others' many
private messages I received on this over the last few days that I would like
Admin to consider in the site upgrade.
BACKGROUND AND JUSTIFICATION:-
The BrickLink site has always required its' members, both buyers and sellers,
to trade legally and fairly. This is an essential aspect of the site's reputation
which makes it an attractive venue for buyers and sellers to trade here with
confidence and safety. The continued success of the site and enjoyment of it
experienced by its' members both depend heavilly on this being maintained.
The site continues to grow rapidly and welcomes many mew members, both buyers
and sellers every day. The financial success of the site has indeed secured its'
future beyond the loss of its' inspired founder. In the early days, this site
was a small community and the founder members and early adopters clearly did
a great job in building the principles of the site and policing it in a self-regulatory
way. For the most part this still works today but, as is demonstrated in the
many threads recently, some (buyers and sellers) are falling short of those principles
and indeed the law! This may be driven by the vast increase in membership which
makes this place less "personal" for some and combined with this; the laws and
regulations covering internet trading become more and more complex as governments
focus on the explosion of such trading and their need to close tax loopholes
and try to protect their consumers from substandard trading and scams.
I believe the site and ALL its' members (except for any that come here to do
unfair or illegal trading) will benefit from a more developed policy on safe
and legal trading for both their own protection and for the reputation of the
site in general which should help promote its' continued growth and success.
The following suggestions are simply my thougths on "how" some of the issues
might be addressed taking into account the direct input I have had from several
other members as well as many forum threads over the years but some recent ones
in particular:-
SUGGESTION #1 - EXPAND ON THIS IN TOS:-
TOS #11 REQUIRES the following.
"General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."
Whilst this "covers" the site in demonstrating to authorities its' intent not
to encourage illegal behaviour, in practice it does little or nothing to:
1. Help inform its' members about what those laws might be and where to find
out about them. Many of the problems here (for buyers and sellers) are caused
by a complete lack of knowledge on the relevent laws.
2. Provides no penalty for breaking them which unfortunately is the reason why
some of the intentional law breakers are comming here.
I suggest changing the TOS #11 to spell out some of the specific laws that members
need to comply with, namely:
Customs - sellers are required to complete customs documents as required by law
honestly and accurately which, for the purpose of selling here, means declaring
the sales value of the goods as stated on the invoice and NOT misprepresenting
commercial sales as gifts.
Compliance with local advertising, selling and consumer protection laws - sellers
are required to comply with all relevent laws applicable to their selling activities.
Taxation - prior to listing any items for sale, sellers are advised to check
the rules in their country relating to any taxation they may need to charge their
customers (e.g. sales tax, VAT as applicable) and any requirements to declare
to their tax authorities any sales activity they conduct on this site.
SUGGESTION #2 - MAKE CUSTOMS FRAUD A REPORTABLE OFFENCE:-
Just as we can report listings that do not comply with the TOS, have a similar
funtion where:
1. Sellers can report (with evidence e.g. private message) to Admin that a buyer
requested a fraudulent customs declaration.
2. Buyers can report (with evidence e.g. private message or something in sellers'
terms) that a seller is offering a fraudulent customs declaration.
3. If a penalty is given, just like an NPB or NSS, a buyer or seller can have
feedback removed if it was given in relation to a transaction subject to the
penalty.
4. A buyer or seller has the right to cancel an order without penalty if subject
to a validated request for customs fraud.
Validated reports would result in a penalty ranging from 1st warning, through
temporary suspension of buying or selling rights, to membership termination for
repeat offenders.
SUGGESTION #3 - HAVE A HELP GUIDE ON SAFETY AND THE LAW
Which members have to declare they have read before they can buy or sell on the
site.
Unlike eBay which has legal resources in many of its' markets, BL has a central
Administration which cannot be expected to be expert on these matter in all geographies.
Perhaps we cound have voluntary "country Admins" for this purpose who would be
responsible for maintaining content with an opening statement relevent to their
market and a number of (official government only) links to any laws relating
to internet buying and selling in their country and the official taxation and
customs sites for their country. This must have a legal disclaimer saying these
Admins and the site are not giving legal advice and it is the ultimate responsibility
of the individual member to ensure he/she complies with all applicable laws.
SUGGESTION #4 - HAVE SOME FUNCTION TO PROMPT BUYERS WHEN BUYING INTERNATIONALLY
-
When you put something in a cart of a store not in your country, you are prompted
to look at a page that says something like:-
"You are about to purchase from a store located outside of your country, you
are advised to check if you may be liable for any customs charges relating to
importing this item into your country WHICH ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY before committing
to this purchase. Purchasing from overseas may also limit your rights as a buyer."
Obviously, this needs some more thought! I would not want this message for EVERY
item I put in a store cart, maybe just the 1st one for example. Maybe give an
option "do not show this message again" after a couple of hits on it within a
certain time period.
SUMMING IT UP FOR ME:-
None of this changes anything that is not the intent of the current TOS.
It is not to differentiate between "private" or "business" sellers for any purpose
of promoting one above the other, although for UK at least and many EU countries,
Gareth's suggestion on that would help keep sellers on the right side of the
law so I still support that too. There does seem to be some differences of definition
on that between countries which would need to be addressed further.
This is intended to HELP buyers and sellers comply with their laws and avoid
some of the risks many are taking now through ignorance of them. Being reported
for falling foul of a law or being caught not complying with it in most cases
carries penalties that most people would be pleased to avoid if given a chance
and informing them better simply helps to avoid that possibility
I would be happy to do more work on this if required as I am passionate about
keeping this a safe, respected place with trading standards that we can ALL be
proud of and enjoy.
CONGRATUALTIONS YOU GOT TO THE END OF THIS POST -
Thank you very much for your time!
Robert
|
Very good and it is something admin should read and think about. BrickLink needs
more active involvement in making requests to do something illegal not proper.
Now they just leave it up to the seller and close their eyes about any suggestion
to make this needed improvement.
John P
|
|
| Author: | DallasBricks | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 10:22 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| Very nicely stated Robert. I appreciate your attention to detail in addressing
several annoying issues that continue to pop up and cause problems for sellers
and buyers alike. As this community continues to grow, it's issues with taxing
authorities will grow as well. It is wise that we continue to bring up and address
these issues before they come back to "byte" us (pun intended). Thanks again.
David
|
| Author: | beardurham | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 09:14 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| | |
CONGRATUALTIONS YOU GOT TO THE END OF THIS POST -
Thank you very much for your time!
Robert
|
Very succinct, I read it all with great interest.
You have provided a valuable source document there Robert.
If we can now persuade everyone to live up to it...
|
| Author: | bb5160 | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 09:09 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| Excellent suggestion! Very well thought out and articulate.
-Bill
|
|
| Author: | Tracyd | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 09:03 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| In Terms and Policies, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | This suggestion is a summary of my recommendations, plus input from others' many
private messages I received on this over the last few days that I would like
Admin to consider in the site upgrade.
BACKGROUND AND JUSTIFICATION:-
The BrickLink site has always required its' members, both buyers and sellers,
to trade legally and fairly. This is an essential aspect of the site's reputation
which makes it an attractive venue for buyers and sellers to trade here with
confidence and safety. The continued success of the site and enjoyment of it
experienced by its' members both depend heavilly on this being maintained.
The site continues to grow rapidly and welcomes many mew members, both buyers
and sellers every day. The financial success of the site has indeed secured its'
future beyond the loss of its' inspired founder. In the early days, this site
was a small community and the founder members and early adopters clearly did
a great job in building the principles of the site and policing it in a self-regulatory
way. For the most part this still works today but, as is demonstrated in the
many threads recently, some (buyers and sellers) are falling short of those principles
and indeed the law! This may be driven by the vast increase in membership which
makes this place less "personal" for some and combined with this; the laws and
regulations covering internet trading become more and more complex as governments
focus on the explosion of such trading and their need to close tax loopholes
and try to protect their consumers from substandard trading and scams.
I believe the site and ALL its' members (except for any that come here to do
unfair or illegal trading) will benefit from a more developed policy on safe
and legal trading for both their own protection and for the reputation of the
site in general which should help promote its' continued growth and success.
The following suggestions are simply my thougths on "how" some of the issues
might be addressed taking into account the direct input I have had from several
other members as well as many forum threads over the years but some recent ones
in particular:-
SUGGESTION #1 - EXPAND ON THIS IN TOS:-
TOS #11 REQUIRES the following.
"General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."
Whilst this "covers" the site in demonstrating to authorities its' intent not
to encourage illegal behaviour, in practice it does little or nothing to:
1. Help inform its' members about what those laws might be and where to find
out about them. Many of the problems here (for buyers and sellers) are caused
by a complete lack of knowledge on the relevent laws.
2. Provides no penalty for breaking them which unfortunately is the reason why
some of the intentional law breakers are comming here.
I suggest changing the TOS #11 to spell out some of the specific laws that members
need to comply with, namely:
Customs - sellers are required to complete customs documents as required by law
honestly and accurately which, for the purpose of selling here, means declaring
the sales value of the goods as stated on the invoice and NOT misprepresenting
commercial sales as gifts.
Compliance with local advertising, selling and consumer protection laws - sellers
are required to comply with all relevent laws applicable to their selling activities.
Taxation - prior to listing any items for sale, sellers are advised to check
the rules in their country relating to any taxation they may need to charge their
customers (e.g. sales tax, VAT as applicable) and any requirements to declare
to their tax authorities any sales activity they conduct on this site.
SUGGESTION #2 - MAKE CUSTOMS FRAUD A REPORTABLE OFFENCE:-
Just as we can report listings that do not comply with the TOS, have a similar
funtion where:
1. Sellers can report (with evidence e.g. private message) to Admin that a buyer
requested a fraudulent customs declaration.
2. Buyers can report (with evidence e.g. private message or something in sellers'
terms) that a seller is offering a fraudulent customs declaration.
3. If a penalty is given, just like an NPB or NSS, a buyer or seller can have
feedback removed if it was given in relation to a transaction subject to the
penalty.
4. A buyer or seller has the right to cancel an order without penalty if subject
to a validated request for customs fraud.
Validated reports would result in a penalty ranging from 1st warning, through
temporary suspension of buying or selling rights, to membership termination for
repeat offenders.
SUGGESTION #3 - HAVE A HELP GUIDE ON SAFETY AND THE LAW
Which members have to declare they have read before they can buy or sell on the
site.
Unlike eBay which has legal resources in many of its' markets, BL has a central
Administration which cannot be expected to be expert on these matter in all geographies.
Perhaps we cound have voluntary "country Admins" for this purpose who would be
responsible for maintaining content with an opening statement relevent to their
market and a number of (official government only) links to any laws relating
to internet buying and selling in their country and the official taxation and
customs sites for their country. This must have a legal disclaimer saying these
Admins and the site are not giving legal advice and it is the ultimate responsibility
of the individual member to ensure he/she complies with all applicable laws.
SUGGESTION #4 - HAVE SOME FUNCTION TO PROMPT BUYERS WHEN BUYING INTERNATIONALLY
-
When you put something in a cart of a store not in your country, you are prompted
to look at a page that says something like:-
"You are about to purchase from a store located outside of your country, you
are advised to check if you may be liable for any customs charges relating to
importing this item into your country WHICH ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY before committing
to this purchase. Purchasing from overseas may also limit your rights as a buyer."
Obviously, this needs some more thought! I would not want this message for EVERY
item I put in a store cart, maybe just the 1st one for example. Maybe give an
option "do not show this message again" after a couple of hits on it within a
certain time period.
SUMMING IT UP FOR ME:-
None of this changes anything that is not the intent of the current TOS.
It is not to differentiate between "private" or "business" sellers for any purpose
of promoting one above the other, although for UK at least and many EU countries,
Gareth's suggestion on that would help keep sellers on the right side of the
law so I still support that too. There does seem to be some differences of definition
on that between countries which would need to be addressed further.
This is intended to HELP buyers and sellers comply with their laws and avoid
some of the risks many are taking now through ignorance of them. Being reported
for falling foul of a law or being caught not complying with it in most cases
carries penalties that most people would be pleased to avoid if given a chance
and informing them better simply helps to avoid that possibility
I would be happy to do more work on this if required as I am passionate about
keeping this a safe, respected place with trading standards that we can ALL be
proud of and enjoy.
CONGRATUALTIONS YOU GOT TO THE END OF THIS POST -
Thank you very much for your time!
Robert
|
For Suggestion 4 the pop-up should be upon check-out.
|
|
| Author: | Rob_and_Shelagh | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 08:55 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| In Terms and Policies, maxx3001 writes:
| | In Terms and Policies, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | This suggestion is a summary of my recommendations, plus input from others' many
private messages I received on this over the last few days that I would like
Admin to consider in the site upgrade.
|
Great read, mostly agree, only the "you are now ordering from someone overseas"
popup message needs a bit more tinkering
Maxx
|
Thanks Maxx,
That does reflect that I live on an island doesn't it 
Yep, agree this was not meant to be a completed solution, just the basis of an
idea that might help avoid the problem for the inexperienced without hurtng the
experts.
Robert
|
|
| Author: | udenbricks | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 08:23 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| Very well thinking:
Because you have to follow the law in any circumstances, i think it is enough
to follow suggestion #4 the "POPUP"
|
|
| Author: | maxx3001 | | Posted: | Nov 23, 2011 08:18 | | Subject: | Re: Fair, safe and legal trading = BL principles | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Terms and Policies | |
| In Terms and Policies, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
| | This suggestion is a summary of my recommendations, plus input from others' many
private messages I received on this over the last few days that I would like
Admin to consider in the site upgrade.
|
Great read, mostly agree, only the "you are now ordering from someone overseas"
popup message needs a bit more tinkering
Maxx
| |
BACKGROUND AND JUSTIFICATION:-
The BrickLink site has always required its' members, both buyers and sellers,
to trade legally and fairly. This is an essential aspect of the site's reputation
which makes it an attractive venue for buyers and sellers to trade here with
confidence and safety. The continued success of the site and enjoyment of it
experienced by its' members both depend heavilly on this being maintained.
The site continues to grow rapidly and welcomes many mew members, both buyers
and sellers every day. The financial success of the site has indeed secured its'
future beyond the loss of its' inspired founder. In the early days, this site
was a small community and the founder members and early adopters clearly did
a great job in building the principles of the site and policing it in a self-regulatory
way. For the most part this still works today but, as is demonstrated in the
many threads recently, some (buyers and sellers) are falling short of those principles
and indeed the law! This may be driven by the vast increase in membership which
makes this place less "personal" for some and combined with this; the laws and
regulations covering internet trading become more and more complex as governments
focus on the explosion of such trading and their need to close tax loopholes
and try to protect their consumers from substandard trading and scams.
I believe the site and ALL its' members (except for any that come here to do
unfair or illegal trading) will benefit from a more developed policy on safe
and legal trading for both their own protection and for the reputation of the
site in general which should help promote its' continued growth and success.
The following suggestions are simply my thougths on "how" some of the issues
might be addressed taking into account the direct input I have had from several
other members as well as many forum threads over the years but some recent ones
in particular:-
SUGGESTION #1 - EXPAND ON THIS IN TOS:-
TOS #11 REQUIRES the following.
"General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items."
Whilst this "covers" the site in demonstrating to authorities its' intent not
to encourage illegal behaviour, in practice it does little or nothing to:
1. Help inform its' members about what those laws might be and where to find
out about them. Many of the problems here (for buyers and sellers) are caused
by a complete lack of knowledge on the relevent laws.
2. Provides no penalty for breaking them which unfortunately is the reason why
some of the intentional law breakers are comming here.
I suggest changing the TOS #11 to spell out some of the specific laws that members
need to comply with, namely:
Customs - sellers are required to complete customs documents as required by law
honestly and accurately which, for the purpose of selling here, means declaring
the sales value of the goods as stated on the invoice and NOT misprepresenting
commercial sales as gifts.
Compliance with local advertising, selling and consumer protection laws - sellers
are required to comply with all relevent laws applicable to their selling activities.
Taxation - prior to listing any items for sale, sellers are advised to check
the rules in their country relating to any taxation they may need to charge their
customers (e.g. sales tax, VAT as applicable) and any requirements to declare
to their tax authorities any sales activity they conduct on this site.
SUGGESTION #2 - MAKE CUSTOMS FRAUD A REPORTABLE OFFENCE:-
Just as we can report listings that do not comply with the TOS, have a similar
funtion where:
1. Sellers can report (with evidence e.g. private message) to Admin that a buyer
requested a fraudulent customs declaration.
2. Buyers can report (with evidence e.g. private message or something in sellers'
terms) that a seller is offering a fraudulent customs declaration.
3. If a penalty is given, just like an NPB or NSS, a buyer or seller can have
feedback removed if it was given in relation to a transaction subject to the
penalty.
4. A buyer or seller has the right to cancel an order without penalty if subject
to a validated request for customs fraud.
Validated reports would result in a penalty ranging from 1st warning, through
temporary suspension of buying or selling rights, to membership termination for
repeat offenders.
SUGGESTION #3 - HAVE A HELP GUIDE ON SAFETY AND THE LAW
Which members have to declare they have read before they can buy or sell on the
site.
Unlike eBay which has legal resources in many of its' markets, BL has a central
Administration which cannot be expected to be expert on these matter in all geographies.
Perhaps we cound have voluntary "country Admins" for this purpose who would be
responsible for maintaining content with an opening statement relevent to their
market and a number of (official government only) links to any laws relating
to internet buying and selling in their country and the official taxation and
customs sites for their country. This must have a legal disclaimer saying these
Admins and the site are not giving legal advice and it is the ultimate responsibility
of the individual member to ensure he/she complies with all applicable laws.
SUGGESTION #4 - HAVE SOME FUNCTION TO PROMPT BUYERS WHEN BUYING INTERNATIONALLY
-
When you put something in a cart of a store not in your country, you are prompted
to look at a page that says something like:-
"You are about to purchase from a store located outside of your country, you
are advised to check if you may be liable for any customs charges relating to
importing this item into your country WHICH ARE YOUR RESPONSIBILITY before committing
to this purchase. Purchasing from overseas may also limit your rights as a buyer."
Obviously, this needs some more thought! I would not want this message for EVERY
item I put in a store cart, maybe just the 1st one for example. Maybe give an
option "do not show this message again" after a couple of hits on it within a
certain time period.
SUMMING IT UP FOR ME:-
None of this changes anything that is not the intent of the current TOS.
It is not to differentiate between "private" or "business" sellers for any purpose
of promoting one above the other, although for UK at least and many EU countries,
Gareth's suggestion on that would help keep sellers on the right side of the
law so I still support that too. There does seem to be some differences of definition
on that between countries which would need to be addressed further.
This is intended to HELP buyers and sellers comply with their laws and avoid
some of the risks many are taking now through ignorance of them. Being reported
for falling foul of a law or being caught not complying with it in most cases
carries penalties that most people would be pleased to avoid if given a chance
and informing them better simply helps to avoid that possibility
I would be happy to do more work on this if required as I am passionate about
keeping this a safe, respected place with trading standards that we can ALL be
proud of and enjoy.
CONGRATUALTIONS YOU GOT TO THE END OF THIS POST -
Thank you very much for your time!
Robert
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