Discussion Forum: Thread 268381

 Author: HunterGuardian View Messages Posted By HunterGuardian
 Posted: May 21, 2020 12:27
 Subject: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 294 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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HunterGuardian (9)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 16, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
Hi,

I need some advice on what to do with this issue. I recently purchased an order
from a seller and was not that impressed with it. A few of the pieces were in
poor condition, with very visible bite marks and gunk on them. However, this
was not my main issue; a few pieces were missing from the order.

I understand that this must be a common occurrence on Bricklink so I politely
asked that the seller sends replacements for the missing pieces at their earliest
convenience. Their response was to refund me for the missing pieces, which was
a problem as this refund does not cover the mail fee I will now need to pay when
repurchasing the pieces through another seller. Because of this, I marked the
order as complete and gave neutral feedback without a comment. I did this as
I did not want to be vengeful and upset the seller's business despite my
own experience. However, I would not give them positive feedback as I truly believe
my experience to be unsatisfactory.

The problem I am experiencing is that this seller has now given me negative feedback,
stating that "piece not found, money refunded, so why neutral feedback". I think
this is abusing the system as it is retaliatory and essentially holding me hostage.
Does this mean that I have to give all sellers positive feedback or they'll
flag me as a bad buyer?

I've already submitted a request for this feedback to be removed, but without
the ability to add a comment as to why it should be removed, I feel as if the
request might be ignored.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Kind Regards.

- M
 Author: Brickwilbo View Messages Posted By Brickwilbo
 Posted: May 21, 2020 12:45
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 122 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Brickwilbo (1479)

Location:  Netherlands, Gelderland
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Oct 24, 2007 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
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Store: Brickwilbo Betuwe Bricks
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Hi,

I need some advice on what to do with this issue. I recently purchased an order
from a seller and was not that impressed with it. A few of the pieces were in
poor condition, with very visible bite marks and gunk on them. However, this
was not my main issue; a few pieces were missing from the order.

I understand that this must be a common occurrence on Bricklink so I politely
asked that the seller sends replacements for the missing pieces at their earliest
convenience. Their response was to refund me for the missing pieces, which was
a problem as this refund does not cover the mail fee I will now need to pay when
repurchasing the pieces through another seller.

Bricklink is probably the only website where some members may expect a larger
refund to cover postage of a new order.
It is excellent service from the sellers who do, but no 'rule'.

  Because of this, I marked the order as complete and gave neutral feedback without a comment.

Leaving a comment would explain why you left a neutral 'out of the blue'.
The seller probably believed he provided good customer service.

  I did this as I did not want to be vengeful and upset the seller's business despite my
own experience.

A neutral is counted as a negative and the stores total feedbackscore will drop.

  However, I would not give them positive feedback as I truly believe
my experience to be unsatisfactory.

The problem I am experiencing is that this seller has now given me negative feedback,
stating that "piece not found, money refunded, so why neutral feedback". I think
this is abusing the system as it is retaliatory and essentially holding me hostage.
Does this mean that I have to give all sellers positive feedback or they'll
flag me as a bad buyer?

I've already submitted a request for this feedback to be removed, but without
the ability to add a comment as to why it should be removed, I feel as if the
request might be ignored.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Use your wallet by least favoring the store.

  
Kind Regards.

- M
 Author: manganschlamm View Messages Posted By manganschlamm
 Posted: May 21, 2020 13:42
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 108 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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manganschlamm (1441)

Location:  Germany, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Member Since Contact Type Status
Mar 8, 2016 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Brickwilbo writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Hi,

I need some advice on what to do with this issue. I recently purchased an order
from a seller and was not that impressed with it. A few of the pieces were in
poor condition, with very visible bite marks and gunk on them. However, this
was not my main issue; a few pieces were missing from the order.

I understand that this must be a common occurrence on Bricklink so I politely
asked that the seller sends replacements for the missing pieces at their earliest
convenience. Their response was to refund me for the missing pieces, which was
a problem as this refund does not cover the mail fee I will now need to pay when
repurchasing the pieces through another seller.

Bricklink is probably the only website where some members may expect a larger
refund to cover postage of a new order.
It is excellent service from the sellers who do, but no 'rule'.

  Because of this, I marked the order as complete and gave neutral feedback without a comment.

Leaving a comment would explain why you left a neutral 'out of the blue'.
The seller probably believed he provided good customer service.

  I did this as I did not want to be vengeful and upset the seller's business despite my
own experience.

A neutral is counted as a negative and the stores total feedbackscore will drop.

  However, I would not give them positive feedback as I truly believe
my experience to be unsatisfactory.

The problem I am experiencing is that this seller has now given me negative feedback,
stating that "piece not found, money refunded, so why neutral feedback". I think
this is abusing the system as it is retaliatory and essentially holding me hostage.
Does this mean that I have to give all sellers positive feedback or they'll
flag me as a bad buyer?

I've already submitted a request for this feedback to be removed, but without
the ability to add a comment as to why it should be removed, I feel as if the
request might be ignored.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Use your wallet by least favoring the store.

  
Kind Regards.

- M


But giving a negative to a buyer who obviously paid correctly just because of
a neutral is double revenge in my view. This is a case of a low feedback buyer
and the seller knows that this negative will badly harm that buyer. There are
quite some stores on BL who will not sell to buyers with negative feedback, and
1 negative out of 7 or 8 in total will look bad. I think this is not fair and
really much over the top. The bottom line of course is that this case should
be resolved by both parties jointly through constructive communication.
 Author: Legoboy_II View Messages Posted By Legoboy_II
 Posted: May 21, 2020 20:12
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 90 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Legoboy_II (61)

Location:  USA, Texas
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 6, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
I agree with Brickwilbo and manganschlamm, in that sellers who refund "100%"
of the disputed amount, go above and beyond, although I don't think that
the S&H would have been any different if the order hadn't included those
parts - so that's really a wash?

Even on other sites, feedback can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When I have issues,
I try to work it out with the other party, generally with positive results and
I let the comments indicate the "value" of the feedback, if the buyer takes the
time to read the comments (I do). In this case, leaving neutral feedback without
a comment, just opened the wrong door. I've only ever left one negative feedback,
but the seller was wholly belligerent, and clearly in the wrong - the fact that
he left no feedback for me, makes me believe he really didn't care about
his rating, anywise.

I think, if I were leaving neutral feedback, based on the information you provided,
I would have said, "A few marginal pieces, some missing, partial refund given",
might have at least earned you a neutral in return?

I wasn't aware that neutral feedback is calculated as a negative (I need
to check on that for more clarity). On most other sites, neutrals are simply
discounted in that statistic. Unless it has changed from the last time I checked,
on one site, the total number of transactions is displayed, but the percentage
shown is based on the number of transactions that received other than a neutral
response; in this manner, neutral feedbacks do not affect the "Satifactory" rating.
This arrangement could be misleading, I guess, but neutral is then neutral.

James
 Author: HunterGuardian View Messages Posted By HunterGuardian
 Posted: May 22, 2020 11:29
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 48 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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HunterGuardian (9)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 16, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Legoboy_II writes:
  I agree with Brickwilbo and manganschlamm, in that sellers who refund "100%"
of the disputed amount, go above and beyond, although I don't think that
the S&H would have been any different if the order hadn't included those
parts - so that's really a wash?

Even on other sites, feedback can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When I have issues,
I try to work it out with the other party, generally with positive results and
I let the comments indicate the "value" of the feedback, if the buyer takes the
time to read the comments (I do). In this case, leaving neutral feedback without
a comment, just opened the wrong door. I've only ever left one negative feedback,
but the seller was wholly belligerent, and clearly in the wrong - the fact that
he left no feedback for me, makes me believe he really didn't care about
his rating, anywise.

I think, if I were leaving neutral feedback, based on the information you provided,
I would have said, "A few marginal pieces, some missing, partial refund given",
might have at least earned you a neutral in return?

I wasn't aware that neutral feedback is calculated as a negative (I need
to check on that for more clarity). On most other sites, neutrals are simply
discounted in that statistic. Unless it has changed from the last time I checked,
on one site, the total number of transactions is displayed, but the percentage
shown is based on the number of transactions that received other than a neutral
response; in this manner, neutral feedbacks do not affect the "Satifactory" rating.
This arrangement could be misleading, I guess, but neutral is then neutral.

James

The problem is that I asked them to send the replacement pieces as soon as possible,
but they refunded the money for the missing pieces(only 10p) immediately without
discussion. This means that they've already made the decision on how this
problem will be solved and expected me to give a positive review when they essentially,
screwed up an order, then ignored my request.
 Author: randyipp View Messages Posted By randyipp
 Posted: May 22, 2020 11:47
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 53 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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randyipp (1640)

Location:  USA, New Hampshire
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 24, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Addicted to Building
In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  The problem is that I asked them to send the replacement pieces as soon as possible,
but they refunded the money for the missing pieces(only 10p) immediately without
discussion. This means that they've already made the decision on how this
problem will be solved and expected me to give a positive review when they essentially,
screwed up an order, then ignored my request.

No seller with even a hint of customer service would do this. A similar situation
happened to me some time ago and was the only time I ever left a negative for
a seller. It was one of the critical parts of my order and I was brushed off
and supposed to feel really good with a $.25 refund instead of the part I needed.

When this type of thing happens to you as a buyer it really makes you change
your perspective when you become a seller.

I think one of the biggest things that reveal a sellers true nature are how they
respond to bad feedback. Anyone who leaves a negative for a buyer purely out
of spite is not the type of person I would want to deal with. If you can't
admit a mistake, make it right and move on then I wouldn't want to do business
with that person.

The good news is that as a buyer I doubt this will ever effect you. Even if
you open a store your selling feedback will not be penalized, it is just a reminder
for those who see it what a bad seller looks like.
 Author: razorflan View Messages Posted By razorflan
 Posted: May 22, 2020 23:54
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 65 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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razorflan (452)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 14, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Kits n Bits
In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  In Problem Order, Legoboy_II writes:
  I agree with Brickwilbo and manganschlamm, in that sellers who refund "100%"
of the disputed amount, go above and beyond, although I don't think that
the S&H would have been any different if the order hadn't included those
parts - so that's really a wash?

Even on other sites, feedback can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When I have issues,
I try to work it out with the other party, generally with positive results and
I let the comments indicate the "value" of the feedback, if the buyer takes the
time to read the comments (I do). In this case, leaving neutral feedback without
a comment, just opened the wrong door. I've only ever left one negative feedback,
but the seller was wholly belligerent, and clearly in the wrong - the fact that
he left no feedback for me, makes me believe he really didn't care about
his rating, anywise.

I think, if I were leaving neutral feedback, based on the information you provided,
I would have said, "A few marginal pieces, some missing, partial refund given",
might have at least earned you a neutral in return?

I wasn't aware that neutral feedback is calculated as a negative (I need
to check on that for more clarity). On most other sites, neutrals are simply
discounted in that statistic. Unless it has changed from the last time I checked,
on one site, the total number of transactions is displayed, but the percentage
shown is based on the number of transactions that received other than a neutral
response; in this manner, neutral feedbacks do not affect the "Satifactory" rating.
This arrangement could be misleading, I guess, but neutral is then neutral.

James

The problem is that I asked them to send the replacement pieces as soon as possible,
but they refunded the money for the missing pieces(only 10p) immediately without
discussion. This means that they've already made the decision on how this
problem will be solved and expected me to give a positive review when they essentially,
screwed up an order, then ignored my request.

Valid point... but a 'TEN PENCE' problem in present times...neuteral....
realy! Stoplisted
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 23, 2020 03:24
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 52 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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yorbrick (730)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Problem Order, razorflan writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  In Problem Order, Legoboy_II writes:
  I agree with Brickwilbo and manganschlamm, in that sellers who refund "100%"
of the disputed amount, go above and beyond, although I don't think that
the S&H would have been any different if the order hadn't included those
parts - so that's really a wash?

Even on other sites, feedback can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When I have issues,
I try to work it out with the other party, generally with positive results and
I let the comments indicate the "value" of the feedback, if the buyer takes the
time to read the comments (I do). In this case, leaving neutral feedback without
a comment, just opened the wrong door. I've only ever left one negative feedback,
but the seller was wholly belligerent, and clearly in the wrong - the fact that
he left no feedback for me, makes me believe he really didn't care about
his rating, anywise.

I think, if I were leaving neutral feedback, based on the information you provided,
I would have said, "A few marginal pieces, some missing, partial refund given",
might have at least earned you a neutral in return?

I wasn't aware that neutral feedback is calculated as a negative (I need
to check on that for more clarity). On most other sites, neutrals are simply
discounted in that statistic. Unless it has changed from the last time I checked,
on one site, the total number of transactions is displayed, but the percentage
shown is based on the number of transactions that received other than a neutral
response; in this manner, neutral feedbacks do not affect the "Satifactory" rating.
This arrangement could be misleading, I guess, but neutral is then neutral.

James

The problem is that I asked them to send the replacement pieces as soon as possible,
but they refunded the money for the missing pieces(only 10p) immediately without
discussion. This means that they've already made the decision on how this
problem will be solved and expected me to give a positive review when they essentially,
screwed up an order, then ignored my request.

Valid point... but a 'TEN PENCE' problem in present times...neuteral....
realy! Stoplisted

I don't think it is the value of the parts that is the issue. It is the refusal
of any sort of customer service.
 Author: Legoboy_II View Messages Posted By Legoboy_II
 Posted: May 23, 2020 06:45
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 52 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Legoboy_II (61)

Location:  USA, Texas
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 6, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
+1

The customer isn't always right, but the provider should take the higher
road and make an honest attempt to work with the customer.




In Problem Order, yorbrick writes:
  In Problem Order, razorflan writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  In Problem Order, Legoboy_II writes:
  I agree with Brickwilbo and manganschlamm, in that sellers who refund "100%"
of the disputed amount, go above and beyond, although I don't think that
the S&H would have been any different if the order hadn't included those
parts - so that's really a wash?

Even on other sites, feedback can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When I have issues,
I try to work it out with the other party, generally with positive results and
I let the comments indicate the "value" of the feedback, if the buyer takes the
time to read the comments (I do). In this case, leaving neutral feedback without
a comment, just opened the wrong door. I've only ever left one negative feedback,
but the seller was wholly belligerent, and clearly in the wrong - the fact that
he left no feedback for me, makes me believe he really didn't care about
his rating, anywise.

I think, if I were leaving neutral feedback, based on the information you provided,
I would have said, "A few marginal pieces, some missing, partial refund given",
might have at least earned you a neutral in return?

I wasn't aware that neutral feedback is calculated as a negative (I need
to check on that for more clarity). On most other sites, neutrals are simply
discounted in that statistic. Unless it has changed from the last time I checked,
on one site, the total number of transactions is displayed, but the percentage
shown is based on the number of transactions that received other than a neutral
response; in this manner, neutral feedbacks do not affect the "Satifactory" rating.
This arrangement could be misleading, I guess, but neutral is then neutral.

James

The problem is that I asked them to send the replacement pieces as soon as possible,
but they refunded the money for the missing pieces(only 10p) immediately without
discussion. This means that they've already made the decision on how this
problem will be solved and expected me to give a positive review when they essentially,
screwed up an order, then ignored my request.

Valid point... but a 'TEN PENCE' problem in present times...neuteral....
realy! Stoplisted

I don't think it is the value of the parts that is the issue. It is the refusal
of any sort of customer service.
 Author: HunterGuardian View Messages Posted By HunterGuardian
 Posted: May 23, 2020 07:55
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 47 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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HunterGuardian (9)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 16, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, yorbrick writes:
  In Problem Order, razorflan writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  In Problem Order, Legoboy_II writes:
  I agree with Brickwilbo and manganschlamm, in that sellers who refund "100%"
of the disputed amount, go above and beyond, although I don't think that
the S&H would have been any different if the order hadn't included those
parts - so that's really a wash?

Even on other sites, feedback can turn "ugly" in a heartbeat. When I have issues,
I try to work it out with the other party, generally with positive results and
I let the comments indicate the "value" of the feedback, if the buyer takes the
time to read the comments (I do). In this case, leaving neutral feedback without
a comment, just opened the wrong door. I've only ever left one negative feedback,
but the seller was wholly belligerent, and clearly in the wrong - the fact that
he left no feedback for me, makes me believe he really didn't care about
his rating, anywise.

I think, if I were leaving neutral feedback, based on the information you provided,
I would have said, "A few marginal pieces, some missing, partial refund given",
might have at least earned you a neutral in return?

I wasn't aware that neutral feedback is calculated as a negative (I need
to check on that for more clarity). On most other sites, neutrals are simply
discounted in that statistic. Unless it has changed from the last time I checked,
on one site, the total number of transactions is displayed, but the percentage
shown is based on the number of transactions that received other than a neutral
response; in this manner, neutral feedbacks do not affect the "Satifactory" rating.
This arrangement could be misleading, I guess, but neutral is then neutral.

James

The problem is that I asked them to send the replacement pieces as soon as possible,
but they refunded the money for the missing pieces(only 10p) immediately without
discussion. This means that they've already made the decision on how this
problem will be solved and expected me to give a positive review when they essentially,
screwed up an order, then ignored my request.

Valid point... but a 'TEN PENCE' problem in present times...neuteral....
realy! Stoplisted

I don't think it is the value of the parts that is the issue. It is the refusal
of any sort of customer service.

And the fact that I now have to pay P&H on another Bricklink order to replace
the missing pieces, even though it was the seller's fault.
 Author: HunterGuardian View Messages Posted By HunterGuardian
 Posted: May 23, 2020 07:53
 Subject: (Cancelled)
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 Topic: Problem Order
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HunterGuardian (9)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 16, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
(Cancelled)
 Author: SezaR View Messages Posted By SezaR
 Posted: May 21, 2020 20:47
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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 Topic: Problem Order
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SezaR (345)

Location:  Canada, British Columbia
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 15, 2015 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Sezar's trains
1) Before ordering, check first the feedbacks seller have recieved and those
he has left for other.
2) a neutral feedback is almost like negative feedback on BL.
3) Why did you only write "no comment"? Explain clearly. For example: few important
parts missing from the order. Only refunded.Out of PO costs now
Then we know why you were not happy.

based on the feedback you have left, a seller like me may think you are a difficult
buyer and may want to stoplist you.
If you explain some details in your feedback, the negative you received would
work against the seller, not you.

You can also reply to his feedback. You can even refer to this forum post: the
message Id is 1198717

4) As a buyer, sometimes I go easy with a seller when few common parts are missing.
I either ignore, or I just request a refund plus some extra for the shipping
costs. I think few very common parts can be ignored (like worth $0.2) and a refund
plus some extra is just ok. For example, if the average value of missing parts
is about $1, then $2 refund is fair.

5) Always the best solution is a constructive communication between the two parties.

In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Hi,

I need some advice on what to do with this issue. I recently purchased an order
from a seller and was not that impressed with it. A few of the pieces were in
poor condition, with very visible bite marks and gunk on them. However, this
was not my main issue; a few pieces were missing from the order.

I understand that this must be a common occurrence on Bricklink so I politely
asked that the seller sends replacements for the missing pieces at their earliest
convenience. Their response was to refund me for the missing pieces, which was
a problem as this refund does not cover the mail fee I will now need to pay when
repurchasing the pieces through another seller. Because of this, I marked the
order as complete and gave neutral feedback without a comment. I did this as
I did not want to be vengeful and upset the seller's business despite my
own experience. However, I would not give them positive feedback as I truly believe
my experience to be unsatisfactory.

The problem I am experiencing is that this seller has now given me negative feedback,
stating that "piece not found, money refunded, so why neutral feedback". I think
this is abusing the system as it is retaliatory and essentially holding me hostage.
Does this mean that I have to give all sellers positive feedback or they'll
flag me as a bad buyer?

I've already submitted a request for this feedback to be removed, but without
the ability to add a comment as to why it should be removed, I feel as if the
request might be ignored.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Kind Regards.

- M
 Author: Gingerela View Messages Posted By Gingerela
 Posted: May 21, 2020 21:41
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 86 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Gingerela (437)

Location:  USA, Maryland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 7, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Bricks to the Max
So I'll step outside the lines here and say that I, too, have experienced
this very same problem more times than I can count. It's very frustrating
to order what you need from one seller only to find that the seller doesn't
tell you beforehand that they are short a part. I have ordered everything I
need to finish a build from one seller even if the parts were at a higher cost
solely for the convenience. When the order arrives short, it can be very irritating
because then I have to go and shop again which delays my build. Add in the fact
that you paid more for that order, and it can be very irritating. I get it.
Been there, done that.

With that said, many buyers are ok with just a refund. Others will send out
what they have missed at their own expense. I've done that when I've
missed something, but that is just good customer service, something that not
all practice here. It's hit or miss for the most part. It is also important
to consider that the cost of shipping can negate the slim profit margin a seller
may have depending on the amount of the sale. Like I said, there are no hard
and fast rules here.

In terms of Bricklink's feedback system, I think having a neutral feedback
count as a negative is misleading to those of us who take the word 'neutral'
at face value, neither good nor bad. It should count as a zero in my opinion.
Over the years, I have seen feedback used a manipulative and vengeful tool.
It can be a double edged sword.

I'm sorry this happened to you and I do understand how you feel. I have
been in your shoes as well. It can be frustrating. I hope you are able to work
things out somehow.
 Author: tEoS View Messages Posted By tEoS
 Posted: May 21, 2020 22:01
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 95 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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tEoS (5005)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 24, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Elements Of Surprise
It doesn't count as a negative on BL. People just seem to think that their
store percentage rating should somehow remain unaffected by a neutral, when that's
not how averages work.


If a teacher were to rate his/her students as positive, neutral, or negative
based on class scores then the results would be similar.

Students getting 85-100% = positive
then 70-84 = neutral
and 69 and below = negative

So BL store % is essentially the class average in the above example.


  In terms of Bricklink's feedback system, I think having a neutral feedback
count as a negative is misleading to those of us who take the word 'neutral'
at face value, neither good nor bad. It should count as a zero in my opinion.
Over the years, I have seen feedback used a manipulative and vengeful tool.
It can be a double edged sword.
 Author: 62Bricks View Messages Posted By 62Bricks
 Posted: May 21, 2020 22:23
 Subject: (Cancelled)
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62Bricks (999)

Location:  USA, Missouri
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jan 27, 2002 Member Does Not Allow Contact Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: 62 Bricks
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 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 22, 2020 03:51
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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yorbrick (730)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
  With that said, many buyers are ok with just a refund.

That is probably because many parts are common enough to be in most / many stores
and can simply be added on to the next order the buyer places and they do not
have to place another special order just to get the part that the seller was
missing. However, for some parts, the buyer will have to place another order
just to get that part from a different seller that they might not have bought
from otherwise, ending up paying shipping again.

So it is not necessarily just the buyer, it is the part too. My attitude in such
a case can vary between (1) no problem and (2) wanting to return the whole order
if the key part of the order was missing and the seller either failed to check
the order or did not inform me before shipping. If the seller ships an order
missing an important part, then tells me once shipped, I am more likely to want
a complete refund on the order.
 Author: Drudatz View Messages Posted By Drudatz
 Posted: May 22, 2020 11:05
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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 Topic: Problem Order
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Drudatz (38)

Location:  Germany, Berlin
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 2, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Sadly all you can do as buyer is
#1 dont give feedback before the seller does, ever!!!

The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.

If you come upon a seller who doesnt do it in this order DONT give
feedback and stay away from that seller in the future!
 Author: HunterGuardian View Messages Posted By HunterGuardian
 Posted: May 22, 2020 11:13
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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HunterGuardian (9)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 16, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Sadly all you can do as buyer is
#1 dont give feedback before the seller does, ever!!!

The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.

If you come upon a seller who doesnt do it in this order DONT give
feedback and stay away from that seller in the future!

Thanks, this does seem to be the best course of action in the future.
 Author: bje View Messages Posted By bje
 Posted: May 22, 2020 11:32
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 56 times
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bje (1376)

Location:  South Africa, Western Cape
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 24, 2010 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: JE Bricks
In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Sadly all you can do as buyer is
#1 dont give feedback before the seller does, ever!!!

The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.

Hmmm No actually. Used to do exactly that and ended up with 4 buyers who got
positive feedbacks despite filing fraudulent refund claims and stealing both
money and LEGO from me. I stopped giving feedback immediately after shipping
orders for exactly this reason. A fraudster is not a good buyer and should not
be rewarded with positive feedback for a transaction that has clearly not worked
as it should.

  
If you come upon a seller who doesnt do it in this order DONT give
feedback and stay away from that seller in the future!

And anyway, for sellers who continually ship orders short, NSS's should be
completed. That is the process when a seller is in breach of the agreement he
concluded with the buyer, not feedback.
 Author: razorflan View Messages Posted By razorflan
 Posted: May 22, 2020 22:08
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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razorflan (452)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 14, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Kits n Bits
In Problem Order, bje writes:
  In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Sadly all you can do as buyer is
#1 dont give feedback before the seller does, ever!!!

The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.

Hmmm No actually. Used to do exactly that and ended up with 4 buyers who got
positive feedbacks despite filing fraudulent refund claims and stealing both
money and LEGO from me. I stopped giving feedback immediately after shipping
orders for exactly this reason. A fraudster is not a good buyer and should not
be rewarded with positive feedback for a transaction that has clearly not worked
as it should.

Agreed... when a buyer places an order they should let the seller know they have
received the order and they are happy (a positive 'THANK YOU' F/B imideatly
returned. If a buyer has received the order and is happy with the order (positive)
I am then happy with the order too... F/B 'THANK YOU' RETURNED. Contact
if there is a problem, give me a chance to fix it... I have given up on that
bay place with feedback buyers click expect & never say 'THANKS' the
only way I know an order is is received is when I get that positive... nobody
bothers to say thank you anymore...click it get it done! With so many newbies
on b/l I feel like I'm playing Russian roulette... so far 100% positive here
& there, but still dreading that first bullit
  
  
If you come upon a seller who doesnt do it in this order DONT give
feedback and stay away from that seller in the future!

And anyway, for sellers who continually ship orders short, NSS's should be
completed. That is the process when a seller is in breach of the agreement he
concluded with the buyer, not feedback.
 Author: Minifig_Central View Messages Posted By Minifig_Central
 Posted: May 22, 2020 12:03
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 68 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Minifig_Central (983)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 3, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Minifig Central
Withholding feedback from a seller as a buyer is just as juvenile as most of
the petty squabbles that go on between stores. I'd even argue you're
part of the problem.
 Author: Drudatz View Messages Posted By Drudatz
 Posted: May 22, 2020 18:59
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 50 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Drudatz (38)

Location:  Germany, Berlin
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 2, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Minifig_Central writes:
  Withholding feedback from a seller as a buyer is just as juvenile as most of
the petty squabbles that go on between stores. I'd even argue you're
part of the problem.

Sorry my job is only to pay. I have done that.
If I dont get a positiv Feedback after that the shop is bad and dont values its
customers.

If you gave up, what your are supposed to do, because of some bad apples
(oh look someone crossed the street with a red light on so I do the same)
YOU are part of the problem.
 Author: Drudatz View Messages Posted By Drudatz
 Posted: May 22, 2020 19:05
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 57 times
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Drudatz (38)

Location:  Germany, Berlin
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 2, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Minifig_Central writes:
  Withholding feedback from a seller as a buyer is just as juvenile as most of
the petty squabbles that go on between stores. I'd even argue you're
part of the problem.

No people like you, who try to justify something wrong, that you know is wrong
are the problem:

I pay = you deliver my order, you give me feedback = I give you feedback, simple
as that.
 Author: manganschlamm View Messages Posted By manganschlamm
 Posted: May 23, 2020 08:14
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 58 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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manganschlamm (1441)

Location:  Germany, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Member Since Contact Type Status
Mar 8, 2016 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  In Problem Order, Minifig_Central writes:
  Withholding feedback from a seller as a buyer is just as juvenile as most of
the petty squabbles that go on between stores. I'd even argue you're
part of the problem.

No people like you, who try to justify something wrong, that you know is wrong
are the problem:

I pay = you deliver my order, you give me feedback = I give you feedback, simple
as that.



I can see both sides in a way. But I must say that I do increasingly get the
feeling that certain stores are withholding positive feedback until they receive
positive feedback from the buyer. And the key question is why is this the case.

As it was said correctly, the essential job of the buyer is to pay on time. Then
the essential job of the seller is to get the complete order to the buyer. So
when the first job is completed, buyer deserves already positive feedback. When
the second job is done, seller deserves positive feedback.

So why should the time sequence be reversed for issuing feedback then? For a
very obvious reason. To hold buyers hostage in case problems appear and they
do not swallow them silently without complaining. As long as the buyer has not
received positive feedback, the store still has the option for retaliation feedback
in case of complaints. Or just punishment feedback to harm the buyer in case
of problems.

This was very obvious in the (fortunately very few) difficult to unpleasant interactions
I had on here. The outcome of this is that the feedback system now is more like
the secret code of employer references. You need to be able to read between the
lines.

Enthusiastic positive feedback = real positive feedback.
Lame positive feedback = neutral feedback.
No feedback = negative feedback.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 23, 2020 08:39
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 65 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, manganschlamm writes:
  […]
I can see both sides in a way. But I must say that I do increasingly get the
feeling that certain stores are withholding positive feedback until they receive
positive feedback from the buyer. And the key question is why is this the case.

As it was said correctly, the essential job of the buyer is to pay on time. Then
the essential job of the seller is to get the complete order to the buyer. So
when the first job is completed, buyer deserves already positive feedback. When
the second job is done, seller deserves positive feedback.

So why should the time sequence be reversed for issuing feedback then? For a
very obvious reason. To hold buyers hostage in case problems appear and they
do not swallow them silently without complaining. As long as the buyer has not
received positive feedback, the store still has the option for retaliation feedback
in case of complaints. Or just punishment feedback to harm the buyer in case
of problems.

Exactly.
And don’t forget that sellers can always retract their feedback and put another
one.
They have one month to do so.
In many cases, orders are completed in a month. It’s only if the shipping time
is longer that there’s a risk they couldn’t retract it.
So what they are really waiting for in these many cases is not to know if the
order is completed, it’s to know if the buyer has left positive feedback.


  This was very obvious in the (fortunately very few) difficult to unpleasant interactions
I had on here. The outcome of this is that the feedback system now is more like
the secret code of employer references. You need to be able to read between the
lines.

Enthusiastic positive feedback = real positive feedback.
Lame positive feedback = neutral feedback.
No feedback = negative feedback.

+1
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: May 23, 2020 10:18
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 52 times
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Teup (4500)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: The T-workshop
In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
  In Problem Order, manganschlamm writes:
  […]
I can see both sides in a way. But I must say that I do increasingly get the
feeling that certain stores are withholding positive feedback until they receive
positive feedback from the buyer. And the key question is why is this the case.

As it was said correctly, the essential job of the buyer is to pay on time. Then
the essential job of the seller is to get the complete order to the buyer. So
when the first job is completed, buyer deserves already positive feedback. When
the second job is done, seller deserves positive feedback.

So why should the time sequence be reversed for issuing feedback then? For a
very obvious reason. To hold buyers hostage in case problems appear and they
do not swallow them silently without complaining. As long as the buyer has not
received positive feedback, the store still has the option for retaliation feedback
in case of complaints. Or just punishment feedback to harm the buyer in case
of problems.

Exactly.
And don’t forget that sellers can always retract their feedback and put another
one.
They have one month to do so.
In many cases, orders are completed in a month. It’s only if the shipping time
is longer that there’s a risk they couldn’t retract it.
So what they are really waiting for in these many cases is not to know if the
order is completed, it’s to know if the buyer has left positive feedback.

But don't judge too quickly though, some sellers (like me) are just mass
posting feedback a little while later, with no intention of "holding hostages".
This takes less time, especially since I verify the payments afterward.
 Author: manganschlamm View Messages Posted By manganschlamm
 Posted: May 23, 2020 10:26
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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manganschlamm (1441)

Location:  Germany, Nordrhein-Westfalen
Member Since Contact Type Status
Mar 8, 2016 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
  In Problem Order, manganschlamm writes:
  […]
I can see both sides in a way. But I must say that I do increasingly get the
feeling that certain stores are withholding positive feedback until they receive
positive feedback from the buyer. And the key question is why is this the case.

As it was said correctly, the essential job of the buyer is to pay on time. Then
the essential job of the seller is to get the complete order to the buyer. So
when the first job is completed, buyer deserves already positive feedback. When
the second job is done, seller deserves positive feedback.

So why should the time sequence be reversed for issuing feedback then? For a
very obvious reason. To hold buyers hostage in case problems appear and they
do not swallow them silently without complaining. As long as the buyer has not
received positive feedback, the store still has the option for retaliation feedback
in case of complaints. Or just punishment feedback to harm the buyer in case
of problems.

Exactly.
And don’t forget that sellers can always retract their feedback and put another
one.
They have one month to do so.
In many cases, orders are completed in a month. It’s only if the shipping time
is longer that there’s a risk they couldn’t retract it.
So what they are really waiting for in these many cases is not to know if the
order is completed, it’s to know if the buyer has left positive feedback.

But don't judge too quickly though, some sellers (like me) are just mass
posting feedback a little while later, with no intention of "holding hostages".
This takes less time, especially since I verify the payments afterward.


I know this well, I see that from some stores I get suddenly 3 times the same
positive feedback for orders spread out over a month. This is no problem. But
some sellers very strongly advocate that the buyer has to issue feedback first,
some write this even in their store terms. In one case I have even seen that
a store reserves the right to post negative feedback if the buyer does not post
any feedback.
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: May 23, 2020 10:35
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23041)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
  In Problem Order, manganschlamm writes:
  […]
I can see both sides in a way. But I must say that I do increasingly get the
feeling that certain stores are withholding positive feedback until they receive
positive feedback from the buyer. And the key question is why is this the case.

As it was said correctly, the essential job of the buyer is to pay on time. Then
the essential job of the seller is to get the complete order to the buyer. So
when the first job is completed, buyer deserves already positive feedback. When
the second job is done, seller deserves positive feedback.

So why should the time sequence be reversed for issuing feedback then? For a
very obvious reason. To hold buyers hostage in case problems appear and they
do not swallow them silently without complaining. As long as the buyer has not
received positive feedback, the store still has the option for retaliation feedback
in case of complaints. Or just punishment feedback to harm the buyer in case
of problems.

Exactly.
And don’t forget that sellers can always retract their feedback and put another
one.
They have one month to do so.
In many cases, orders are completed in a month. It’s only if the shipping time
is longer that there’s a risk they couldn’t retract it.
So what they are really waiting for in these many cases is not to know if the
order is completed, it’s to know if the buyer has left positive feedback.

But don't judge too quickly though, some sellers (like me) are just mass
posting feedback a little while later, with no intention of "holding hostages".
This takes less time, especially since I verify the payments afterward.

It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: May 23, 2020 11:26
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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Teup (4500)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: The T-workshop
In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, SylvainLS writes:
  In Problem Order, manganschlamm writes:
  […]
I can see both sides in a way. But I must say that I do increasingly get the
feeling that certain stores are withholding positive feedback until they receive
positive feedback from the buyer. And the key question is why is this the case.

As it was said correctly, the essential job of the buyer is to pay on time. Then
the essential job of the seller is to get the complete order to the buyer. So
when the first job is completed, buyer deserves already positive feedback. When
the second job is done, seller deserves positive feedback.

So why should the time sequence be reversed for issuing feedback then? For a
very obvious reason. To hold buyers hostage in case problems appear and they
do not swallow them silently without complaining. As long as the buyer has not
received positive feedback, the store still has the option for retaliation feedback
in case of complaints. Or just punishment feedback to harm the buyer in case
of problems.

Exactly.
And don’t forget that sellers can always retract their feedback and put another
one.
They have one month to do so.
In many cases, orders are completed in a month. It’s only if the shipping time
is longer that there’s a risk they couldn’t retract it.
So what they are really waiting for in these many cases is not to know if the
order is completed, it’s to know if the buyer has left positive feedback.

But don't judge too quickly though, some sellers (like me) are just mass
posting feedback a little while later, with no intention of "holding hostages".
This takes less time, especially since I verify the payments afterward.

It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert

No, the average is about 6 a day when my store is open. I need to log on to my
internet banking and find the payment. I've written software that does it
for me, but I still need to log on and run the program on it. I do it about twice
a month. Since the mass feedback page doesn't display what payment method
the customers picked, I can't mass-feedback the onsite paid ones separately.
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: May 24, 2020 03:58
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23041)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Problem Order, Teup writes:

snip

  
  It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert

No, the average is about 6 a day when my store is open. I need to log on to my
internet banking and find the payment. I've written software that does it
for me, but I still need to log on and run the program on it. I do it about twice
a month. Since the mass feedback page doesn't display what payment method
the customers picked, I can't mass-feedback the onsite paid ones separately.

OK, so on average your store is open a couple of days per week, however you cut
it that's a handful of feedbacks. 6 per day is about what we average at also.

I'm sorry, It's not for me to suggest how you do it but it's the
"why" I just can't get my head around. You've written software to retrieve
payment details so you can leave delayed feedback... I'm just in the keep
it simple camp and leave it manually at the time, I can't figure how writing
software to delay the process would save me any time (it takes seconds), benefit
me or my customer in any way but whatever works for you. Some customers will
also "think" you are holding back their feedback and will not care or seek to
understand your need for software to do the task at some point in the future.

Again, I'm not intending a dig at you or your store, it's your choice
of course. Just my keep it simple logic; we don't use any home written or
3rd party software to run our BL store, maybe we are missing out somewhere.

Robert
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: May 24, 2020 04:27
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
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Teup (4500)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: The T-workshop
In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:

snip

  
  It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert

No, the average is about 6 a day when my store is open. I need to log on to my
internet banking and find the payment. I've written software that does it
for me, but I still need to log on and run the program on it. I do it about twice
a month. Since the mass feedback page doesn't display what payment method
the customers picked, I can't mass-feedback the onsite paid ones separately.

OK, so on average your store is open a couple of days per week, however you cut
it that's a handful of feedbacks. 6 per day is about what we average at also.

I'm sorry, It's not for me to suggest how you do it but it's the
"why" I just can't get my head around. You've written software to retrieve
payment details so you can leave delayed feedback... I'm just in the keep
it simple camp and leave it manually at the time, I can't figure how writing
software to delay the process would save me any time (it takes seconds), benefit
me or my customer in any way but whatever works for you. Some customers will
also "think" you are holding back their feedback and will not care or seek to
understand your need for software to do the task at some point in the future.

Again, I'm not intending a dig at you or your store, it's your choice
of course. Just my keep it simple logic; we don't use any home written or
3rd party software to run our BL store, maybe we are missing out somewhere.

Robert

Just trust me. Either I am right, or I must be stupid, because it would be quite
silly to write software for something that does not make my life easier.

Identifying and matching payments used to really take some time before I had
this software. It is quite a smart algorithm if I may say so myself. It awards
points to identifying traits of the payments and when it scores enough points
there is a match and it marks the orders paid in my administration (which makes
them appear on my tax reports). It also tells me when a buyer has made a mistake.
And if there are any payments missing for too long, it generates a letter to
ask the buyer about it. This system really saves time and eliminates mistakes.

I don't owe anybody fast feedback, in fact, I don't owe anybody feedback
at all, and they don't owe me. I'm leaving a lot more than I get. I don't
really see why someone (especially a buyer) would be in urgent need of a feedback
unless they are -1 and need it to be able to buy at some shops.

In fact, I am keeping it simple. I need to do my business administration and
if I "kept it simple" by not writing software for these things, it would simply
be impossible for me to run the store and earn my living with it. The manual
administration on tax, on payments, on pricing, creating all my shipping labels
manually... it would be heaps of work. I think everybody is trying to automate
something, to the best of their ability, whether that's software or
an excel file, macros, or just some templates.

Even if I am stupid and I somehow managed to write useless software that makes
my work routine worse instead of better it doesn't change the point that
leaving late feedback does not always mean that a seller is waiting for the buyer's
feedback first.

By the way I don't always wait. I often do it for onsite paid orders,
and if I have some time I can check bank transfers manually. It's just that
it takes 1. going to the bank site 2. finding my identifier 3. exchanging the
codes 4. read the statement and look for the buyer's name or address or order
number 5. make sure the grand total matches 6. mark it as paid on Bricklink 7.
going to my administration dashboard and mark the order as paid there.
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: May 24, 2020 04:39
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 28 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23041)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:

snip

  
  It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert

No, the average is about 6 a day when my store is open. I need to log on to my
internet banking and find the payment. I've written software that does it
for me, but I still need to log on and run the program on it. I do it about twice
a month. Since the mass feedback page doesn't display what payment method
the customers picked, I can't mass-feedback the onsite paid ones separately.

OK, so on average your store is open a couple of days per week, however you cut
it that's a handful of feedbacks. 6 per day is about what we average at also.

I'm sorry, It's not for me to suggest how you do it but it's the
"why" I just can't get my head around. You've written software to retrieve
payment details so you can leave delayed feedback... I'm just in the keep
it simple camp and leave it manually at the time, I can't figure how writing
software to delay the process would save me any time (it takes seconds), benefit
me or my customer in any way but whatever works for you. Some customers will
also "think" you are holding back their feedback and will not care or seek to
understand your need for software to do the task at some point in the future.

Again, I'm not intending a dig at you or your store, it's your choice
of course. Just my keep it simple logic; we don't use any home written or
3rd party software to run our BL store, maybe we are missing out somewhere.

Robert

Just trust me. Either I am right, or I must be stupid, because it would be quite
silly to write software for something that does not make my life easier.

Identifying and matching payments used to really take some time before I had
this software. It is quite a smart algorithm if I may say so myself. It awards
points to identifying traits of the payments and when it scores enough points
there is a match and it marks the orders paid in my administration (which makes
them appear on my tax reports). It also tells me when a buyer has made a mistake.
And if there are any payments missing for too long, it generates a letter to
ask the buyer about it. This system really saves time and eliminates mistakes.

I don't owe anybody fast feedback, in fact, I don't owe anybody feedback
at all, and they don't owe me. I'm leaving a lot more than I get. I don't
really see why someone (especially a buyer) would be in urgent need of a feedback
unless they are -1 and need it to be able to buy at some shops.

In fact, I am keeping it simple. I need to do my business administration and
if I "kept it simple" by not writing software for these things, it would simply
be impossible for me to run the store and earn my living with it. The manual
administration on tax, on payments, on pricing, creating all my shipping labels
manually... it would be heaps of work. I think everybody is trying to automate
something, to the best of their ability, whether that's software or
an excel file, macros, or just some templates.

Even if I am stupid and I somehow managed to write useless software that makes
my work routine worse instead of better it doesn't change the point that
leaving late feedback does not always mean that a seller is waiting for the buyer's
feedback first.

By the way I don't always wait. I often do it for onsite paid orders,
and if I have some time I can check bank transfers manually. It's just that
it takes 1. going to the bank site 2. finding my identifier 3. exchanging the
codes 4. read the statement and look for the buyer's name or address or order
number 5. make sure the grand total matches 6. mark it as paid on Bricklink 7.
going to my administration dashboard and mark the order as paid there.

I'm sorry, it must be me then, I still don't get it. I somehow don't
need to do any of that stuff to make my store work. I'm also quite sure I
won't be alone living in this world of ignorance. If I purchased form a store,
paid quickly and adhered to their store terms I'd be wondering why I didn't
receive any feedback and it might influence my future purchases. As sellers we
will probably never understand what our customers think. All I know is that in
the time it has taken me to try to understand this thread I could have left a
couple of weeks worth of feedback and that removes the issue for me. As I said,
whatever works for you though.

Robert
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: May 24, 2020 04:54
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 30 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Teup (4500)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: The T-workshop
In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:

snip

  
  It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert

No, the average is about 6 a day when my store is open. I need to log on to my
internet banking and find the payment. I've written software that does it
for me, but I still need to log on and run the program on it. I do it about twice
a month. Since the mass feedback page doesn't display what payment method
the customers picked, I can't mass-feedback the onsite paid ones separately.

OK, so on average your store is open a couple of days per week, however you cut
it that's a handful of feedbacks. 6 per day is about what we average at also.

I'm sorry, It's not for me to suggest how you do it but it's the
"why" I just can't get my head around. You've written software to retrieve
payment details so you can leave delayed feedback... I'm just in the keep
it simple camp and leave it manually at the time, I can't figure how writing
software to delay the process would save me any time (it takes seconds), benefit
me or my customer in any way but whatever works for you. Some customers will
also "think" you are holding back their feedback and will not care or seek to
understand your need for software to do the task at some point in the future.

Again, I'm not intending a dig at you or your store, it's your choice
of course. Just my keep it simple logic; we don't use any home written or
3rd party software to run our BL store, maybe we are missing out somewhere.

Robert

Just trust me. Either I am right, or I must be stupid, because it would be quite
silly to write software for something that does not make my life easier.

Identifying and matching payments used to really take some time before I had
this software. It is quite a smart algorithm if I may say so myself. It awards
points to identifying traits of the payments and when it scores enough points
there is a match and it marks the orders paid in my administration (which makes
them appear on my tax reports). It also tells me when a buyer has made a mistake.
And if there are any payments missing for too long, it generates a letter to
ask the buyer about it. This system really saves time and eliminates mistakes.

I don't owe anybody fast feedback, in fact, I don't owe anybody feedback
at all, and they don't owe me. I'm leaving a lot more than I get. I don't
really see why someone (especially a buyer) would be in urgent need of a feedback
unless they are -1 and need it to be able to buy at some shops.

In fact, I am keeping it simple. I need to do my business administration and
if I "kept it simple" by not writing software for these things, it would simply
be impossible for me to run the store and earn my living with it. The manual
administration on tax, on payments, on pricing, creating all my shipping labels
manually... it would be heaps of work. I think everybody is trying to automate
something, to the best of their ability, whether that's software or
an excel file, macros, or just some templates.

Even if I am stupid and I somehow managed to write useless software that makes
my work routine worse instead of better it doesn't change the point that
leaving late feedback does not always mean that a seller is waiting for the buyer's
feedback first.

By the way I don't always wait. I often do it for onsite paid orders,
and if I have some time I can check bank transfers manually. It's just that
it takes 1. going to the bank site 2. finding my identifier 3. exchanging the
codes 4. read the statement and look for the buyer's name or address or order
number 5. make sure the grand total matches 6. mark it as paid on Bricklink 7.
going to my administration dashboard and mark the order as paid there.

I'm sorry, it must be me then, I still don't get it. I somehow don't
need to do any of that stuff to make my store work. I'm also quite sure I
won't be alone living in this world of ignorance. If I purchased form a store,
paid quickly and adhered to their store terms I'd be wondering why I didn't
receive any feedback and it might influence my future purchases. As sellers we
will probably never understand what our customers think. All I know is that in
the time it has taken me to try to understand this thread I could have left a
couple of weeks worth of feedback and that removes the issue for me. As I said,
whatever works for you though.

Robert

But you're in the UK and I am in the NL, so it's kind of apples and oranges.
I don't even know how online banking works there or if you log on with an
identifier at all. And I guess the majority of your orders are PayPal.

Business works different everywhere. Probably you don't have to worry about
VAT, your shipping system works differently (I need to upload csv's from
my software), etc... I think it's safe to say that everybody knows what works
best in their own region. Especially when they have many years of experience
we should trust them on it. It would be way too complicated (although sometimes
interesting) to figure out how exactly it works everywhere else and how it could
be done smarter.
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: May 24, 2020 05:06
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 35 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23041)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:

snip

  
  It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert

No, the average is about 6 a day when my store is open. I need to log on to my
internet banking and find the payment. I've written software that does it
for me, but I still need to log on and run the program on it. I do it about twice
a month. Since the mass feedback page doesn't display what payment method
the customers picked, I can't mass-feedback the onsite paid ones separately.

OK, so on average your store is open a couple of days per week, however you cut
it that's a handful of feedbacks. 6 per day is about what we average at also.

I'm sorry, It's not for me to suggest how you do it but it's the
"why" I just can't get my head around. You've written software to retrieve
payment details so you can leave delayed feedback... I'm just in the keep
it simple camp and leave it manually at the time, I can't figure how writing
software to delay the process would save me any time (it takes seconds), benefit
me or my customer in any way but whatever works for you. Some customers will
also "think" you are holding back their feedback and will not care or seek to
understand your need for software to do the task at some point in the future.

Again, I'm not intending a dig at you or your store, it's your choice
of course. Just my keep it simple logic; we don't use any home written or
3rd party software to run our BL store, maybe we are missing out somewhere.

Robert

Just trust me. Either I am right, or I must be stupid, because it would be quite
silly to write software for something that does not make my life easier.

Identifying and matching payments used to really take some time before I had
this software. It is quite a smart algorithm if I may say so myself. It awards
points to identifying traits of the payments and when it scores enough points
there is a match and it marks the orders paid in my administration (which makes
them appear on my tax reports). It also tells me when a buyer has made a mistake.
And if there are any payments missing for too long, it generates a letter to
ask the buyer about it. This system really saves time and eliminates mistakes.

I don't owe anybody fast feedback, in fact, I don't owe anybody feedback
at all, and they don't owe me. I'm leaving a lot more than I get. I don't
really see why someone (especially a buyer) would be in urgent need of a feedback
unless they are -1 and need it to be able to buy at some shops.

In fact, I am keeping it simple. I need to do my business administration and
if I "kept it simple" by not writing software for these things, it would simply
be impossible for me to run the store and earn my living with it. The manual
administration on tax, on payments, on pricing, creating all my shipping labels
manually... it would be heaps of work. I think everybody is trying to automate
something, to the best of their ability, whether that's software or
an excel file, macros, or just some templates.

Even if I am stupid and I somehow managed to write useless software that makes
my work routine worse instead of better it doesn't change the point that
leaving late feedback does not always mean that a seller is waiting for the buyer's
feedback first.

By the way I don't always wait. I often do it for onsite paid orders,
and if I have some time I can check bank transfers manually. It's just that
it takes 1. going to the bank site 2. finding my identifier 3. exchanging the
codes 4. read the statement and look for the buyer's name or address or order
number 5. make sure the grand total matches 6. mark it as paid on Bricklink 7.
going to my administration dashboard and mark the order as paid there.

I'm sorry, it must be me then, I still don't get it. I somehow don't
need to do any of that stuff to make my store work. I'm also quite sure I
won't be alone living in this world of ignorance. If I purchased form a store,
paid quickly and adhered to their store terms I'd be wondering why I didn't
receive any feedback and it might influence my future purchases. As sellers we
will probably never understand what our customers think. All I know is that in
the time it has taken me to try to understand this thread I could have left a
couple of weeks worth of feedback and that removes the issue for me. As I said,
whatever works for you though.

Robert

But you're in the UK and I am in the NL, so it's kind of apples and oranges.
I don't even know how online banking works there or if you log on with an
identifier at all. And I guess the majority of your orders are PayPal.

Business works different everywhere. Probably you don't have to worry about
VAT, your shipping system works differently (I need to upload csv's from
my software), etc... I think it's safe to say that everybody knows what works
best in their own region. Especially when they have many years of experience
we should trust them on it. It would be way too complicated (although sometimes
interesting) to figure out how exactly it works everywhere else and how it could
be done smarter.

All those factors have to be considered to run a business of course. Yes, we
are lucky here that we have a higher level of VAT registration threashold in
the UK and as a result we choose to be non-VAT registered which I admit saves
a huge amount of accounting work for us.

None of those factors need to have any influence on when or how I decide to leave
my customers some feedback which takes seconds. If I registered for VAT, moved
to the Netherlands or succumbed to any other regional difference I would not
expect that to change. I don't really see this as a regional or local issue,
some stores in the Netherlands leave FB at the time of shipping too, some UK
ones don't. I wasn't suggesting we all do it the same way. Whatever works
for you.

Robert
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: May 24, 2020 05:22
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 30 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Teup (4500)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: The T-workshop
In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:

snip

  
  It "really" saves that much time? From your store stats it looks like an average
of less than 2 orders per day to leave FB for. We just leave the feedback when
we ship so the buyer can see it when they receive the order which we hope will
encourage them to leave FB too. Some sellers certainly do play games with the
FB though and as a buyer it puts me off when I see they only leave FB for customers
that have already left it for them.

Robert

No, the average is about 6 a day when my store is open. I need to log on to my
internet banking and find the payment. I've written software that does it
for me, but I still need to log on and run the program on it. I do it about twice
a month. Since the mass feedback page doesn't display what payment method
the customers picked, I can't mass-feedback the onsite paid ones separately.

OK, so on average your store is open a couple of days per week, however you cut
it that's a handful of feedbacks. 6 per day is about what we average at also.

I'm sorry, It's not for me to suggest how you do it but it's the
"why" I just can't get my head around. You've written software to retrieve
payment details so you can leave delayed feedback... I'm just in the keep
it simple camp and leave it manually at the time, I can't figure how writing
software to delay the process would save me any time (it takes seconds), benefit
me or my customer in any way but whatever works for you. Some customers will
also "think" you are holding back their feedback and will not care or seek to
understand your need for software to do the task at some point in the future.

Again, I'm not intending a dig at you or your store, it's your choice
of course. Just my keep it simple logic; we don't use any home written or
3rd party software to run our BL store, maybe we are missing out somewhere.

Robert

Just trust me. Either I am right, or I must be stupid, because it would be quite
silly to write software for something that does not make my life easier.

Identifying and matching payments used to really take some time before I had
this software. It is quite a smart algorithm if I may say so myself. It awards
points to identifying traits of the payments and when it scores enough points
there is a match and it marks the orders paid in my administration (which makes
them appear on my tax reports). It also tells me when a buyer has made a mistake.
And if there are any payments missing for too long, it generates a letter to
ask the buyer about it. This system really saves time and eliminates mistakes.

I don't owe anybody fast feedback, in fact, I don't owe anybody feedback
at all, and they don't owe me. I'm leaving a lot more than I get. I don't
really see why someone (especially a buyer) would be in urgent need of a feedback
unless they are -1 and need it to be able to buy at some shops.

In fact, I am keeping it simple. I need to do my business administration and
if I "kept it simple" by not writing software for these things, it would simply
be impossible for me to run the store and earn my living with it. The manual
administration on tax, on payments, on pricing, creating all my shipping labels
manually... it would be heaps of work. I think everybody is trying to automate
something, to the best of their ability, whether that's software or
an excel file, macros, or just some templates.

Even if I am stupid and I somehow managed to write useless software that makes
my work routine worse instead of better it doesn't change the point that
leaving late feedback does not always mean that a seller is waiting for the buyer's
feedback first.

By the way I don't always wait. I often do it for onsite paid orders,
and if I have some time I can check bank transfers manually. It's just that
it takes 1. going to the bank site 2. finding my identifier 3. exchanging the
codes 4. read the statement and look for the buyer's name or address or order
number 5. make sure the grand total matches 6. mark it as paid on Bricklink 7.
going to my administration dashboard and mark the order as paid there.

I'm sorry, it must be me then, I still don't get it. I somehow don't
need to do any of that stuff to make my store work. I'm also quite sure I
won't be alone living in this world of ignorance. If I purchased form a store,
paid quickly and adhered to their store terms I'd be wondering why I didn't
receive any feedback and it might influence my future purchases. As sellers we
will probably never understand what our customers think. All I know is that in
the time it has taken me to try to understand this thread I could have left a
couple of weeks worth of feedback and that removes the issue for me. As I said,
whatever works for you though.

Robert

But you're in the UK and I am in the NL, so it's kind of apples and oranges.
I don't even know how online banking works there or if you log on with an
identifier at all. And I guess the majority of your orders are PayPal.

Business works different everywhere. Probably you don't have to worry about
VAT, your shipping system works differently (I need to upload csv's from
my software), etc... I think it's safe to say that everybody knows what works
best in their own region. Especially when they have many years of experience
we should trust them on it. It would be way too complicated (although sometimes
interesting) to figure out how exactly it works everywhere else and how it could
be done smarter.

All those factors have to be considered to run a business of course. Yes, we
are lucky here that we have a higher level of VAT registration threashold in
the UK and as a result we choose to be non-VAT registered which I admit saves
a huge amount of accounting work for us.

None of those factors need to have any influence on when or how I decide to leave
my customers some feedback which takes seconds. If I registered for VAT, moved
to the Netherlands or succumbed to any other regional difference I would not
expect that to change. I don't really see this as a regional or local issue,
some stores in the Netherlands leave FB at the time of shipping too, some UK
ones don't. I wasn't suggesting we all do it the same way. Whatever works
for you.

Robert

Fair enough, it's always a nice thing to give feedback priority of course.
I've at least prioritised fast shipping, so I ship immediately before the
payment even arrives, and then handle payments/feedbacks in batches. So I'm
fast with the parts but sometimes a little slow on the feedback. Well, it's
true you could of course prioritise everything, but at least I prefer my laziness
to affect feedback speed instead of shipping speed
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: May 24, 2020 05:29
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 35 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23041)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Problem Order, Teup writes:

  
Fair enough, it's always a nice thing to give feedback priority of course.
I've at least prioritised fast shipping, so I ship immediately before the
payment even arrives, and then handle payments/feedbacks in batches. So I'm
fast with the parts but sometimes a little slow on the feedback. Well, it's
true you could of course prioritise everything, but at least I prefer my laziness
to affect feedback speed instead of shipping speed

I would say that approach certainly makes you quite unique! I'm sure none
of this is driven by lazyness. If anyone can find a way of prioritising "everything"
I would buy into it

Robert
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: May 24, 2020 05:47
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 38 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Teup (4500)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: The T-workshop
In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:

  
Fair enough, it's always a nice thing to give feedback priority of course.
I've at least prioritised fast shipping, so I ship immediately before the
payment even arrives, and then handle payments/feedbacks in batches. So I'm
fast with the parts but sometimes a little slow on the feedback. Well, it's
true you could of course prioritise everything, but at least I prefer my laziness
to affect feedback speed instead of shipping speed

I would say that approach certainly makes you quite unique! I'm sure none
of this is driven by lazyness. If anyone can find a way of prioritising "everything"
I would buy into it

Robert

A big factor in this is that the ones I ship ahead are domestic, and NL is such
small country, if they don't pay it's very easy to go and collect it
on the doorstep But no problems so far
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: May 24, 2020 06:10
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 39 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23041)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Problem Order, Teup writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  In Problem Order, Teup writes:

  
Fair enough, it's always a nice thing to give feedback priority of course.
I've at least prioritised fast shipping, so I ship immediately before the
payment even arrives, and then handle payments/feedbacks in batches. So I'm
fast with the parts but sometimes a little slow on the feedback. Well, it's
true you could of course prioritise everything, but at least I prefer my laziness
to affect feedback speed instead of shipping speed

I would say that approach certainly makes you quite unique! I'm sure none
of this is driven by lazyness. If anyone can find a way of prioritising "everything"
I would buy into it

Robert

A big factor in this is that the ones I ship ahead are domestic, and NL is such
small country, if they don't pay it's very easy to go and collect it
on the doorstep But no problems so far

Trust is always a factor in business, managing trust is a skill.

Robert
 Author: infinibrix View Messages Posted By infinibrix
 Posted: May 24, 2020 05:40
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 39 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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infinibrix (2735)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jul 1, 2013 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: infinibrix
In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  I don't really see this as a regional or local issue,
some stores in the Netherlands leave FB at the time of shipping too, some UK
ones don't. I wasn't suggesting we all do it the same way. Whatever works
for you.

Robert

I can see why people might think some sellers are holding back leaving feedback
for the wrong reasons but as per my post within this thread these are the main
reasons I prefer to wait for the buyer to leave feedback:-

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1199159

This I hope will encourage more buyers to leave feedback and if they don't
well then I guess it just saves me a lot of time with having to leave feedback
in return.

Personally I think there should be an option for sellers to be able to have feedback
automated!
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: May 24, 2020 06:18
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 58 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23041)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Problem Order, infinibrix writes:
  In Problem Order, Rob_and_Shelagh writes:
  I don't really see this as a regional or local issue,
some stores in the Netherlands leave FB at the time of shipping too, some UK
ones don't. I wasn't suggesting we all do it the same way. Whatever works
for you.

Robert

I can see why people might think some sellers are holding back leaving feedback
for the wrong reasons but as per my post within this thread these are the main
reasons I prefer to wait for the buyer to leave feedback:-

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1199159

This I hope will encourage more buyers to leave feedback and if they don't
well then I guess it just saves me a lot of time with having to leave feedback
in return.


Our approach is not to withold feedback for the good guys in case 1 out of 1000
turns out to be somewhat less than a good guy.

Over the years this has been one of the biggest forum topics and buyers continue
to have problems with some dodgy sellers withholding FB for less than honourable
reasons. The issue is not with the reason genuine sellers have for not leaving
FB 1st, it is what the buyers might think the reason is. For that reason, and
because it takes seconds to do, we just trust the buyer and leave the FB.

  Personally I think there should be an option for sellers to be able to have feedback
automated!

You could always write some software for that

Robert
 Author: infinibrix View Messages Posted By infinibrix
 Posted: May 23, 2020 15:13
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 51 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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infinibrix (2735)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jul 1, 2013 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: infinibrix
In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:

  I pay = you deliver my order, you give me feedback = I give you feedback, simple
as that.

Well speaking as a seller who has already pushed for the idea that sellers should
not be able to leave retaliatory feedback for buyers:-

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1168664

I can speak honestly by saying that the only reasons I don’t leave feedback until
the buyer has left for me is because I don’t consider sending payment as a reason
to warrant praising the customer. Receiving payment is simply what is expected
in order for the transaction to continue!

The feedback is really all about the actual service or quality of goods provided
by the seller anyway and if the buyer likes the goods, likes the service then
I’m sure they may feel inclined to leave feedback and I will acknowledge that
with a courteous feedback in return!

It would seem premature to me to leave positive feedback until the transactions
is completed and the transaction is only completed when the buyer receives their
goods and is happy and leaves feedback or contacts me because they are unhappy
about something?

If after receiving the goods the buyer is rude/aggressive or leaves negative
feedback without an opportunity to resolve? Does that buyer still warrant praise?

Either way I actually don’t think sellers should be able to leave any feedback
other than Postivie feedback for their customers (ebay style) however I think
sellers should still be able to leave NO feedback rather than praise a customer
who later turns out to be rude and difficult? Besides many customers don't
bother to leave feedback and really its for the customers benefit to comment
and so when that has been done as an incentive I leave feedback in return to
say Thank You!

Also when a seller is busy processing orders leaving feedback while trying to
pack orders for the day is never the best time to do it as it’s just another
thing that will slow a seller down hence many sellers hold back and do batches
of feedback in one go at a later date so its not always held back for sinister
reasons!
 Author: StrayBricks View Messages Posted By StrayBricks
 Posted: May 22, 2020 20:22
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 100 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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StrayBricks (1086)

Location:  USA, Ohio
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Jun 12, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
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Store: Stray Bricks
You're welcome to your opinion, but that is not how some sellers operate.
I will not leave feedback for a buyer until I know they have their order and
are satisfied, or until some long amount of time has gone by and I can safely
assume it was fine.

There are many ways a buyer can abuse the system or myself after payment is made,
so no, paying for the order is not their "only job". This community operates
best on mutual respect.

Play well,
Joel

In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.
 Author: pitz8008 View Messages Posted By pitz8008
 Posted: May 22, 2020 20:49
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 84 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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pitz8008 (8336)

Location:  USA, Illinois
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 30, 2009 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Pitz Playhouse
In Problem Order, StrayBricks writes:
  You're welcome to your opinion, but that is not how some sellers operate.
I will not leave feedback for a buyer until I know they have their order and
are satisfied, or until some long amount of time has gone by and I can safely
assume it was fine.

There are many ways a buyer can abuse the system or myself after payment is made,
so no, paying for the order is not their "only job". This community operates
best on mutual respect.

Well said.
  
Play well,
Joel

In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.
 Author: Legoboy_II View Messages Posted By Legoboy_II
 Posted: May 24, 2020 10:34
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 59 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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Legoboy_II (61)

Location:  USA, Texas
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 6, 2019 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
+1




In Problem Order, pitz8008 writes:
  In Problem Order, StrayBricks writes:
  You're welcome to your opinion, but that is not how some sellers operate.
I will not leave feedback for a buyer until I know they have their order and
are satisfied, or until some long amount of time has gone by and I can safely
assume it was fine.

There are many ways a buyer can abuse the system or myself after payment is made,
so no, paying for the order is not their "only job". This community operates
best on mutual respect.

Well said.
  
Play well,
Joel

In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.
 Author: LordSkylark View Messages Posted By LordSkylark
 Posted: May 23, 2020 11:23
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 43 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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LordSkylark (10634)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 4, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Light of the World
In Problem Order, Drudatz writes:
  In Problem Order, HunterGuardian writes:
  Does anyone have any suggestions on how I can deal with this going forward?

Sadly all you can do as buyer is
#1 dont give feedback before the seller does, ever!!!

The order IS:
You order, you pay, (thats your ONLY job as buyer!)
you get feedback from vendor, you get your order, you give feedback.

good BL vendors do it in this order.

If you come upon a seller who doesnt do it in this order DONT give
feedback and stay away from that seller in the future!

I thought you could retract your feedback or change it? Is that feature gone?
 Author: LordSkylark View Messages Posted By LordSkylark
 Posted: May 23, 2020 11:28
 Subject: (Cancelled)
 Viewed: 31 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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LordSkylark (10634)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 4, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Light of the World
(Cancelled)
 Author: LordSkylark View Messages Posted By LordSkylark
 Posted: May 23, 2020 11:31
 Subject: Re: Negative feedback because of neutral feedback
 Viewed: 77 times
 Topic: Problem Order
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LordSkylark (10634)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 4, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Light of the World
I am sorry to hear that happen to you. I always try to treat others as I want
to be treated. So, regardless if I have a right to do something, that definitely
doesn't make it right.

If I were to exclude parts from an order, I ask the buyer if they want me to
ship them the missing parts or if a refund is okay. It also helps me to know
from the buyer if the part was essential or it really doesn't matter. If
they now have to purchase the part from another seller, I think a refund for
shipping is on me.

Because that buyer bought from me, taking into account all shipping costs, with
the expectation that they were getting those parts. If they knew they were not
getting them, they made have actually paid slightly more from another seller,
but now they are going to have to pay much much more because of MY mistake, not
theirs. That's not fair to them. Why does the buyer have to suffer for MY
mistake?

So anyone who thinks that the BUYER now has to eat the cost of buying the items
from another seller and that a simple refund of a few cents is okay... That's
sad... If your store is so tight on making a profit that you cannot handle a
refund of a few dollars for your OWN mistake, you probably should just quit right
now.