Discussion Forum: Thread 257826

 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 25, 2019 18:06
 Subject: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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 Topic: Shipping
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
Sellers who are using Instant Checkout with volume based shipping methods probably
noticed just like I did how wildly optimistic Bricklink is about what will fit.
Today I again had an order that just really isn't going to fit. Again I have
reduced my maximum dimensions. By now, they are set to almost as little as 50%
of the actual volume that the shipping method could handle. That's a pretty
big discrepancy.

I don't really mind it, so long as the system errs consistently to one side
only. And sure, so far, I don't have evidence of the opposite: No orders
that are predicted to be too big when actually they fit.

But still, I can't help but worry that there may be buyers out there with
potential orders that would have been just right for my letter shipping method,
but because of my 50% downward correction, get disqualified, and buyers abandon
the cart because too high shipping costs are predicted. I don't know if that
happens, so I'm just curious - what are your experiences with volume based
shipping methods? Are the predictions consistent?
 Author: iprice View Messages Posted By iprice
 Posted: Sep 25, 2019 20:13
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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 Topic: Shipping
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iprice (408)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 15, 2018 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Shipping, Teup writes:
  Sellers who are using Instant Checkout with volume based shipping methods probably
noticed just like I did how wildly optimistic Bricklink is about what will fit.
Today I again had an order that just really isn't going to fit. Again I have
reduced my maximum dimensions. By now, they are set to almost as little as 50%
of the actual volume that the shipping method could handle. That's a pretty
big discrepancy.

I don't really mind it, so long as the system errs consistently to one side
only. And sure, so far, I don't have evidence of the opposite: No orders
that are predicted to be too big when actually they fit.

But still, I can't help but worry that there may be buyers out there with
potential orders that would have been just right for my letter shipping method,
but because of my 50% downward correction, get disqualified, and buyers abandon
the cart because too high shipping costs are predicted. I don't know if that
happens, so I'm just curious - what are your experiences with volume based
shipping methods? Are the predictions consistent?

I've had many orders that would easily and safely fit into a standard A5
jiffy bag/envelope that were deemed as small parcels only and as such were placed
into boxes that were filled with a ton of bubble wrap, air pockets, paper and/or
polystyrene. This bumped the price of p&p up considerably and unfairly. Many
sellers do this just to protect themselves from potential claims of broken pieces
I'm sure. To date in over 350 sales I've never had a single piece damaged
or broken in the mail. Even in simple envelopes.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 04:43
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 25 times
 Topic: Shipping
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yorbrick (699)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
  I've had many orders that would easily and safely fit into a standard A5
jiffy bag/envelope that were deemed as small parcels only and as such were placed
into boxes that were filled with a ton of bubble wrap, air pockets, paper and/or
polystyrene. This bumped the price of p&p up considerably and unfairly. Many
sellers do this just to protect themselves from potential claims of broken pieces
I'm sure. To date in over 350 sales I've never had a single piece damaged
or broken in the mail. Even in simple envelopes.

If this happens, I tend to just package as a large letter and refund the excess.
However, I have a maximum part thickness of 22mm for large letter - I could fit
a 25mm part into a paper envelope but I woudln't risk that.

Plus a heavier large letter order with recorded postage is not that different
in price to a small parcel, which has free tracking. So if it is above 250g and
needs proof of delivery, then the difference is minimal.
 Author: BasKrie View Messages Posted By BasKrie
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 02:15
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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 Topic: Shipping
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BasKrie (3863)

Location:  Netherlands, Drenthe
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 5, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: BasKrie
I don't use IC, but do let BL auto populate the fees (which are also shown
at checkout).
This is rarely wrong. Only when dimensions are clearly wrong (0x0x0 for example)
it goes wrong. Also sometimes with high item count lots it's off.
And I only use a base weight (for the smallest envelope) and 10% weight and dimension
margin.

Could you share the order that was wrong to see if it has to do with dimensions
that BL has incorrect?
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 05:22
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 24 times
 Topic: Shipping
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  I don't use IC, but do let BL auto populate the fees (which are also shown
at checkout).
This is rarely wrong. Only when dimensions are clearly wrong (0x0x0 for example)
it goes wrong. Also sometimes with high item count lots it's off.
And I only use a base weight (for the smallest envelope) and 10% weight and dimension
margin.

Could you share the order that was wrong to see if it has to do with dimensions
that BL has incorrect?

It's not one of the most extreme examples but a simple one: 400 2x2 bricks.
That does not fit in 24 x 22 x 3 cm.
It seems to me like the system does not apply enough padding around the dimensions
of the parts when it starts calculating. As if it assumes I am going to stack
everything..
 Author: BasKrie View Messages Posted By BasKrie
 Posted: Sep 27, 2019 08:54
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 25 times
 Topic: Shipping
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BasKrie (3863)

Location:  Netherlands, Drenthe
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 5, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: BasKrie
In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  I don't use IC, but do let BL auto populate the fees (which are also shown
at checkout).
This is rarely wrong. Only when dimensions are clearly wrong (0x0x0 for example)
it goes wrong. Also sometimes with high item count lots it's off.
And I only use a base weight (for the smallest envelope) and 10% weight and dimension
margin.

Could you share the order that was wrong to see if it has to do with dimensions
that BL has incorrect?

It's not one of the most extreme examples but a simple one: 400 2x2 bricks.
That does not fit in 24 x 22 x 3 cm.
It seems to me like the system does not apply enough padding around the dimensions
of the parts when it starts calculating. As if it assumes I am going to stack
everything..

24x22x3 seems an odd dimension to me, it's not the largest possible and the
next question is, is that inner or outer dimension?
In case it's inner dimension you can fit 15x14x2 (you can have 2 layers of
them without stacking and still be within the 3 cm limit) (so 420 in total) 2x2
bricks in it, so that is correct. If that's outer dimension, it won't
fit. You'll lose on both ends so only 14x13x2 (364) will fit.
Only thing is that have te be neatly put side by side in rows en and 'thrown'
in a bag, there is little room for air.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 27, 2019 11:04
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 25 times
 Topic: Shipping
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  I don't use IC, but do let BL auto populate the fees (which are also shown
at checkout).
This is rarely wrong. Only when dimensions are clearly wrong (0x0x0 for example)
it goes wrong. Also sometimes with high item count lots it's off.
And I only use a base weight (for the smallest envelope) and 10% weight and dimension
margin.

Could you share the order that was wrong to see if it has to do with dimensions
that BL has incorrect?

It's not one of the most extreme examples but a simple one: 400 2x2 bricks.
That does not fit in 24 x 22 x 3 cm.
It seems to me like the system does not apply enough padding around the dimensions
of the parts when it starts calculating. As if it assumes I am going to stack
everything..

24x22x3 seems an odd dimension to me, it's not the largest possible and the
next question is, is that inner or outer dimension?

I reduced it to 24x20x3 after that order. I don't know the answers, but I
know from experience it works fairly well (see also the tests bje and I did).
Are your dimensions very different?
 Author: BasKrie View Messages Posted By BasKrie
 Posted: Sep 28, 2019 02:41
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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 Topic: Shipping
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BasKrie (3863)

Location:  Netherlands, Drenthe
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 5, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: BasKrie
In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  I don't use IC, but do let BL auto populate the fees (which are also shown
at checkout).
This is rarely wrong. Only when dimensions are clearly wrong (0x0x0 for example)
it goes wrong. Also sometimes with high item count lots it's off.
And I only use a base weight (for the smallest envelope) and 10% weight and dimension
margin.

Could you share the order that was wrong to see if it has to do with dimensions
that BL has incorrect?

It's not one of the most extreme examples but a simple one: 400 2x2 bricks.
That does not fit in 24 x 22 x 3 cm.
It seems to me like the system does not apply enough padding around the dimensions
of the parts when it starts calculating. As if it assumes I am going to stack
everything..

24x22x3 seems an odd dimension to me, it's not the largest possible and the
next question is, is that inner or outer dimension?

I reduced it to 24x20x3 after that order. I don't know the answers, but I
know from experience it works fairly well (see also the tests bje and I did).
Are your dimensions very different?

I have larger max dimension for letters, I use 32x24x2.8 as is the largest letterbox
that I have, just a few centimeters under the max that post.nl will allow.
And there is 10% margin in place.
 
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 28, 2019 05:13
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 28 times
 Topic: Shipping
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, BasKrie writes:
  I don't use IC, but do let BL auto populate the fees (which are also shown
at checkout).
This is rarely wrong. Only when dimensions are clearly wrong (0x0x0 for example)
it goes wrong. Also sometimes with high item count lots it's off.
And I only use a base weight (for the smallest envelope) and 10% weight and dimension
margin.

Could you share the order that was wrong to see if it has to do with dimensions
that BL has incorrect?

It's not one of the most extreme examples but a simple one: 400 2x2 bricks.
That does not fit in 24 x 22 x 3 cm.
It seems to me like the system does not apply enough padding around the dimensions
of the parts when it starts calculating. As if it assumes I am going to stack
everything..

24x22x3 seems an odd dimension to me, it's not the largest possible and the
next question is, is that inner or outer dimension?

I reduced it to 24x20x3 after that order. I don't know the answers, but I
know from experience it works fairly well (see also the tests bje and I did).
Are your dimensions very different?

I have larger max dimension for letters, I use 32x24x2.8 as is the largest letterbox
that I have, just a few centimeters under the max that post.nl will allow.
And there is 10% margin in place.

I wonder if that margin applies to all 3 dimensions (*0.9^3) or just once 10%
off the total volume.
If it takes 10% off each of the three dimensions, you end up with a volume that's
roughly the size that I have, though slightly bigger: yours is 1568, mine now
1440.
 Author: Ossdorp View Messages Posted By Ossdorp
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 03:01
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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 Topic: Shipping
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Ossdorp (162)

Location:  Netherlands, Noord-Brabant
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 29, 2018 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Oss Bricks
I know what you mean.
Today someone ordered Dragon04 with me.
He pays 9 euro letterpost to Indonesia, but it has to be put in a parcel (9 euro
extra)

Is it possible to reduce the size of a product manualy?
I dont have a lot of products that are to big for a letter if BL says so?

Gr
Tim
 Author: BasKrie View Messages Posted By BasKrie
 Posted: Sep 27, 2019 08:57
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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 Topic: Shipping
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BasKrie (3863)

Location:  Netherlands, Drenthe
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 5, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: BasKrie
In Shipping, Ossdorp writes:
  I know what you mean.
Today someone ordered Dragon04 with me.
He pays 9 euro letterpost to Indonesia, but it has to be put in a parcel (9 euro
extra)

Is it possible to reduce the size of a product manualy?
I dont have a lot of products that are to big for a letter if BL says so?

Gr
Tim

Hello Tim,

Dragon04 has wrong dimensenions on BL. They are stated as 0x0x0 and that is really
wrong.
There are more items that have those dimensions
Sometime I already asked if those could be changed to ?x?x? so that such an item
would not get into a letter shipment.
 Author: WhiteHorseMatt View Messages Posted By WhiteHorseMatt
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 05:05
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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WhiteHorseMatt (449)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Oct 3, 2010 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: White Horse Bricks
In Shipping, Teup writes:
what are your experiences with volume based
  shipping methods? Are the predictions consistent?

Yes, even using PIP boxes, I have had orders with too many bricks to post as
a letter, and I have (I believe) a fairly conservative max size for letter post
set up.

OTOH I recently had an order for two wedge plates that the system put in my parcel
category.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 05:25
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Shipping, WhiteHorseMatt writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
what are your experiences with volume based
  shipping methods? Are the predictions consistent?

Yes, even using PIP boxes, I have had orders with too many bricks to post as
a letter, and I have (I believe) a fairly conservative max size for letter post
set up.

OTOH I recently had an order for two wedge plates that the system put in my parcel
category.

That sounds like missing dimensions or something like that. As far as I understand
there are two possible reasons why an order disqualifies for a volume based shipping
method: The dimensions of one or more parts, or the total volume of the order.
I just hope that the way it estimates the total volume is a bit consistent..
 Author: bricksinbins View Messages Posted By bricksinbins
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 05:58
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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bricksinbins (681)

Location:  Finland, Pohjanmaa
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 4, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Bricks in Bins
In Shipping, Teup writes:
  Sellers who are using Instant Checkout with volume based shipping methods probably
noticed just like I did how wildly optimistic Bricklink is about what will fit.
Today I again had an order that just really isn't going to fit. Again I have
reduced my maximum dimensions. By now, they are set to almost as little as 50%
of the actual volume that the shipping method could handle. That's a pretty
big discrepancy.

I don't really mind it, so long as the system errs consistently to one side
only. And sure, so far, I don't have evidence of the opposite: No orders
that are predicted to be too big when actually they fit.

But still, I can't help but worry that there may be buyers out there with
potential orders that would have been just right for my letter shipping method,
but because of my 50% downward correction, get disqualified, and buyers abandon
the cart because too high shipping costs are predicted. I don't know if that
happens, so I'm just curious - what are your experiences with volume based
shipping methods? Are the predictions consistent?

I brought this up in the very beginning but it quickly became clear that BL had
no interest in doing this properly. I got the sense they were very proud of their
algorithm that basically calculates how much volume a pile of sand of some ratio
of the weight would take up. We all know LEGO bricks do not behave the same as
sand but like I said, BL was too proud of their method.

So to "fix" this they invented this weight or volume bound idea you can set for
parts. Hardly the proper solution. Now it's up to every seller to make sure
this is set correctly for parts.

What it comes down to is that I have to have very aggressive shipping dimensions
to try to make sure the order will fit. And hope I have not missed to set parts
as volume bound when they physically can not fit even though the BL will gladly
claim they do.

Ken
 Author: bje View Messages Posted By bje
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 06:34
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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bje (1272)

Location:  South Africa, Western Cape
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 24, 2010 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: JE Bricks
In Shipping, Teup writes:
  snip
But still, I can't help but worry that there may be buyers out there with
potential orders that would have been just right for my letter shipping method,
but because of my 50% downward correction, get disqualified, and buyers abandon
the cart because too high shipping costs are predicted. I don't know if that
happens, so I'm just curious - what are your experiences with volume based
shipping methods? Are the predictions consistent?

We do not really use volumetric or dimensional charges, but the two shipping
methods I have for those kinds of charges are so massive that it does not matter
anyway. The one where it is critical, does actually work perfectly every time
so far and I've never had to adjust it. I have two: on for 25000 cubic cm
which is a dimension limit of 5kg and one for 10000 cubic cm which is a limit
of 2kg.

I've tried to see how PostNL calculates this as a buyer, because on letter
items you are the same as my post office - there is no dimensional/volumetric
restriction. If you were going to apply that to your maximum international rates
per convention, your maximum dimensions would be: 38x26.5x3.2= 3222.40 cubic
cm, which is 644grams volumetric weight - you should never have a problem there
as the maximum weight you are allowed at any time is 2kg. So must you really
use the volume settings?

That is also my No3 bubblemailers which already .5cm high, so the maximum height
of anything I order from the Netherlands is never going to exceed 2.7cm, excluding
the height of any padding caused by bubblewrap. So I know if I order 100 2 x
4 plates and a seller tells me only package is available, this is not on. I should
think a maximum height setting of 2.7cm combined with a girth of 58.4cm and a
max length + Girth of 96.4cm should do you better than volumetric settings, though.

Put an extra shipping method on with those exact restrictions and custom reserve
me some big windows in 1, 6, 10, 20 and 40 batches, then I will test some carts
for you and let me see if we get to PostNL rates same as here: https://www.postnl.nl/en/mail-and-parcels/mail/international-mail/
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 07:52
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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 Topic: Shipping
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  snip
But still, I can't help but worry that there may be buyers out there with
potential orders that would have been just right for my letter shipping method,
but because of my 50% downward correction, get disqualified, and buyers abandon
the cart because too high shipping costs are predicted. I don't know if that
happens, so I'm just curious - what are your experiences with volume based
shipping methods? Are the predictions consistent?

We do not really use volumetric or dimensional charges, but the two shipping
methods I have for those kinds of charges are so massive that it does not matter
anyway. The one where it is critical, does actually work perfectly every time
so far and I've never had to adjust it. I have two: on for 25000 cubic cm
which is a dimension limit of 5kg and one for 10000 cubic cm which is a limit
of 2kg.

I've tried to see how PostNL calculates this as a buyer, because on letter
items you are the same as my post office - there is no dimensional/volumetric
restriction. If you were going to apply that to your maximum international rates
per convention, your maximum dimensions would be: 38x26.5x3.2= 3222.40 cubic
cm, which is 644grams volumetric weight - you should never have a problem there
as the maximum weight you are allowed at any time is 2kg. So must you really
use the volume settings?

It's a valid question, since you are right almost all parts by themselves
qualify for letter shipments. But yes, there are heavy orders that fit and light
ones that are too big.
That said, I am not sure Bricklink's algorythms even handle this properly.
If they treat bricks like water, like some people have said, then the answer
is obviously no, I don't need to use the volume restrictions in that case,
if Bricklink's volume restrictions aren't any better than a silly conversion
from weight to volume.

  
That is also my No3 bubblemailers which already .5cm high, so the maximum height
of anything I order from the Netherlands is never going to exceed 2.7cm, excluding
the height of any padding caused by bubblewrap. So I know if I order 100 2 x
4 plates and a seller tells me only package is available, this is not on. I should
think a maximum height setting of 2.7cm combined with a girth of 58.4cm and a
max length + Girth of 96.4cm should do you better than volumetric settings, though.

Put an extra shipping method on with those exact restrictions and custom reserve
me some big windows in 1, 6, 10, 20 and 40 batches, then I will test some carts
for you and let me see if we get to PostNL rates same as here: https://www.postnl.nl/en/mail-and-parcels/mail/international-mail/

I have added a test method with those actual PostNL max dimensions, in case you're
curious. You should see it on checkout when the order is supposed to be smaller
than 38.5 x 26 x 3. Though I already know that it's going to be massively
off, but anyone curious about it can check it out for the next couple of hours.
I guess rates are irrelevant, it's basically about what qualifies as a letter
and what does not. Through trial and error, my normal letter shipping method
is now reduced all the way to 24 x 20, from 38.5 x 26. But even that may lead
to orders that in reality are bigger than 38.5 x 26...
 Author: bje View Messages Posted By bje
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 09:01
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
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bje (1272)

Location:  South Africa, Western Cape
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 24, 2010 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: JE Bricks
In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  snip
I have added a test method with those actual PostNL max dimensions, in case you're
curious. You should see it on checkout when the order is supposed to be smaller
than 38.5 x 26 x 3. Though I already know that it's going to be massively
off, but anyone curious about it can check it out for the next couple of hours.
I guess rates are irrelevant, it's basically about what qualifies as a letter
and what does not. Through trial and error, my normal letter shipping method
is now reduced all the way to 24 x 20, from 38.5 x 26. But even that may lead
to orders that in reality are bigger than 38.5 x 26...

How do you get an envelope thickness of .2cm? I've had bubblemailers from
the Netherlands, they are never that thin. Set it to .5 at least. You also have
to allow for the ziplock (the zip part is also 1mm thick before you even do bubblewrap).
Also, my bubblemailers do not pack to the edge, I need to cut at least 1 cm around
each edge for the seam or the seal, so actually you need to reduce that further
to say 36.5 x 24 x 2.6.

So I tested a few on mostly big parts.
 
Part No: 37493  Name: Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
* 
37493 Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
Parts: Train
is immediately parcel rate,
so correct.

71 of
 
Part No: 60598  Name: Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
* 
60598 Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
Parts: Window
still gives me a letter rate or EUR10.20. That part is exactly
3.2 x 3.04 x 1.6cm. At 38cm L we can do flat of 36.5/3.2 = 11.4 and 24/3.04 =
7.89. Not worrying about the weight or the height too much, you should be able
to fit 11 * 7 = 77. Still allowing for space if you do not build the parts, you
are not massively off. 72 of them kicks it over to parcel. For the sake of argument,
I packed it in a mailer of mine with the same dimensions and got to 6 x 12 =
72. Weight is obviously not a problem, but it seems in line.

To go a bit more complicated:
1 of
 
Part No: 30394  Name: Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
* 
30394 Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
Parts: Vehicle
and some of those windows should never allow a letter rate since
the dimension on that part is 2.88cm on height, yet I can still check out with
letter rate on 62 windows and this part. Set your dimension height lower because
it appears you are not allowing for the girth once you have packed.

Also:
 
Part No: 26021  Name: Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
* 
26021 Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
Parts: Vehicle, Base
Does not have dimensions in the catalog, so I get 70 of those windows plus 1
of these before I get kicked over to parcel rate. Or 69 windows and 2 of these
and so on. I somehow do not think that will fit like that in a mailer, it looks
to be at least 2.5 studs high. But given that some of the windows are being taken
away every time I increase the count for that part, it looks to be alright as
well, regardless of having no dimensions in the catalog.

I was not able to check a polybag set added to this as the one you do have is
not enabled for IC.

I don't know what your previous settings were, but these seems to work. Except
for train bases, I would not ship those in an envelope, but whatever rocks your
boat, or your train
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 10:02
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 30 times
 Topic: Shipping
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  snip
I have added a test method with those actual PostNL max dimensions, in case you're
curious. You should see it on checkout when the order is supposed to be smaller
than 38.5 x 26 x 3. Though I already know that it's going to be massively
off, but anyone curious about it can check it out for the next couple of hours.
I guess rates are irrelevant, it's basically about what qualifies as a letter
and what does not. Through trial and error, my normal letter shipping method
is now reduced all the way to 24 x 20, from 38.5 x 26. But even that may lead
to orders that in reality are bigger than 38.5 x 26...

How do you get an envelope thickness of .2cm? I've had bubblemailers from
the Netherlands, they are never that thin. Set it to .5 at least.

Yeah, I actually started out smaller, but for some reason parts of 3 studs wide
were disqualified even when I did not have any margin enabled. And parts with
3 cm wide sections are actually fine, as long as it's not a very large portion
of the part that's that width. I could experiment with it again though, as
assuming a 3 cm wide envelope all the way across could lead to overestimation.

  
So I tested a few on mostly big parts.
 
Part No: 37493  Name: Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
* 
37493 Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
Parts: Train
is immediately parcel rate,
so correct.

71 of
 
Part No: 60598  Name: Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
* 
60598 Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
Parts: Window
still gives me a letter rate or EUR10.20. That part is exactly
3.2 x 3.04 x 1.6cm. At 38cm L we can do flat of 36.5/3.2 = 11.4 and 24/3.04 =
7.89. Not worrying about the weight or the height too much, you should be able
to fit 11 * 7 = 77. Still allowing for space if you do not build the parts, you
are not massively off. 72 of them kicks it over to parcel. For the sake of argument,
I packed it in a mailer of mine with the same dimensions and got to 6 x 12 =
72. Weight is obviously not a problem, but it seems in line.

To go a bit more complicated:
1 of
 
Part No: 30394  Name: Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
* 
30394 Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
Parts: Vehicle
and some of those windows should never allow a letter rate since
the dimension on that part is 2.88cm on height, yet I can still check out with
letter rate on 62 windows and this part. Set your dimension height lower because
it appears you are not allowing for the girth once you have packed.

Also:
 
Part No: 26021  Name: Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
* 
26021 Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
Parts: Vehicle, Base
Does not have dimensions in the catalog, so I get 70 of those windows plus 1
of these before I get kicked over to parcel rate. Or 69 windows and 2 of these
and so on. I somehow do not think that will fit like that in a mailer, it looks
to be at least 2.5 studs high. But given that some of the windows are being taken
away every time I increase the count for that part, it looks to be alright as
well, regardless of having no dimensions in the catalog.

I was not able to check a polybag set added to this as the one you do have is
not enabled for IC.

I don't know what your previous settings were, but these seems to work. Except
for train bases, I would not ship those in an envelope, but whatever rocks your
boat, or your train

Thanks for testing. I was just asking for experiences but didn't realise
we could just run some tests of course Tweaking the limit for orders with
large parts like bricks and windows is something I have already done, bit by
bit, so good to see it confirmed that that's working out well.
I just ran a test with the opposite kind of order: 1x2 plates. I could fit 1400
in an envelope without problems. My IC gives me approximately 1200. That's
alright too. Maybe there are more possible order types that I'm not sure
about, but it's good to know that 2 completely different kinds of orders
seem to work out OK.
 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 14:09
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 65 times
 Topic: Shipping
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  snip
I have added a test method with those actual PostNL max dimensions, in case you're
curious. You should see it on checkout when the order is supposed to be smaller
than 38.5 x 26 x 3. Though I already know that it's going to be massively
off, but anyone curious about it can check it out for the next couple of hours.
I guess rates are irrelevant, it's basically about what qualifies as a letter
and what does not. Through trial and error, my normal letter shipping method
is now reduced all the way to 24 x 20, from 38.5 x 26. But even that may lead
to orders that in reality are bigger than 38.5 x 26...

How do you get an envelope thickness of .2cm? I've had bubblemailers from
the Netherlands, they are never that thin. Set it to .5 at least. You also have
to allow for the ziplock (the zip part is also 1mm thick before you even do bubblewrap).
Also, my bubblemailers do not pack to the edge, I need to cut at least 1 cm around
each edge for the seam or the seal, so actually you need to reduce that further
to say 36.5 x 24 x 2.6.

So I tested a few on mostly big parts.
 
Part No: 37493  Name: Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
* 
37493 Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
Parts: Train
is immediately parcel rate,
so correct.

71 of
 
Part No: 60598  Name: Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
* 
60598 Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
Parts: Window
still gives me a letter rate or EUR10.20. That part is exactly
3.2 x 3.04 x 1.6cm. At 38cm L we can do flat of 36.5/3.2 = 11.4 and 24/3.04 =
7.89. Not worrying about the weight or the height too much, you should be able
to fit 11 * 7 = 77. Still allowing for space if you do not build the parts, you
are not massively off. 72 of them kicks it over to parcel. For the sake of argument,
I packed it in a mailer of mine with the same dimensions and got to 6 x 12 =
72. Weight is obviously not a problem, but it seems in line.

To go a bit more complicated:
1 of
 
Part No: 30394  Name: Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
* 
30394 Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
Parts: Vehicle
and some of those windows should never allow a letter rate since
the dimension on that part is 2.88cm on height, yet I can still check out with
letter rate on 62 windows and this part. Set your dimension height lower because
it appears you are not allowing for the girth once you have packed.

Also:
 
Part No: 26021  Name: Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
* 
26021 Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
Parts: Vehicle, Base
Does not have dimensions in the catalog, so I get 70 of those windows plus 1
of these before I get kicked over to parcel rate. Or 69 windows and 2 of these
and so on. I somehow do not think that will fit like that in a mailer, it looks
to be at least 2.5 studs high. But given that some of the windows are being taken
away every time I increase the count for that part, it looks to be alright as
well, regardless of having no dimensions in the catalog.

Interesting conversation about IC. I wish we had more of these discussions so
other sellers can learn better how to set up their stores. I have just added
dimensions for this Roller Coaster part and set it to Volume Bound, btw.
 Author: Teup View Messages Posted By Teup
 Posted: Sep 26, 2019 15:10
 Subject: Re: Instant Checkout size prediction bias
 Viewed: 31 times
 Topic: Shipping
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Teup (4217)

Location:  Netherlands, Utrecht
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The T-workshop
In Shipping, Admin_Russell writes:
  In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  In Shipping, bje writes:
  In Shipping, Teup writes:
  snip
I have added a test method with those actual PostNL max dimensions, in case you're
curious. You should see it on checkout when the order is supposed to be smaller
than 38.5 x 26 x 3. Though I already know that it's going to be massively
off, but anyone curious about it can check it out for the next couple of hours.
I guess rates are irrelevant, it's basically about what qualifies as a letter
and what does not. Through trial and error, my normal letter shipping method
is now reduced all the way to 24 x 20, from 38.5 x 26. But even that may lead
to orders that in reality are bigger than 38.5 x 26...

How do you get an envelope thickness of .2cm? I've had bubblemailers from
the Netherlands, they are never that thin. Set it to .5 at least. You also have
to allow for the ziplock (the zip part is also 1mm thick before you even do bubblewrap).
Also, my bubblemailers do not pack to the edge, I need to cut at least 1 cm around
each edge for the seam or the seal, so actually you need to reduce that further
to say 36.5 x 24 x 2.6.

So I tested a few on mostly big parts.
 
Part No: 37493  Name: Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
* 
37493 Train Front 6 x 9 x 7
Parts: Train
is immediately parcel rate,
so correct.

71 of
 
Part No: 60598  Name: Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
* 
60598 Window 2 x 4 x 3 Frame - Hollow Studs
Parts: Window
still gives me a letter rate or EUR10.20. That part is exactly
3.2 x 3.04 x 1.6cm. At 38cm L we can do flat of 36.5/3.2 = 11.4 and 24/3.04 =
7.89. Not worrying about the weight or the height too much, you should be able
to fit 11 * 7 = 77. Still allowing for space if you do not build the parts, you
are not massively off. 72 of them kicks it over to parcel. For the sake of argument,
I packed it in a mailer of mine with the same dimensions and got to 6 x 12 =
72. Weight is obviously not a problem, but it seems in line.

To go a bit more complicated:
1 of
 
Part No: 30394  Name: Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
* 
30394 Vehicle, Digger Bucket 7 Teeth 3 x 6 with Locking 2 Finger Hinge
Parts: Vehicle
and some of those windows should never allow a letter rate since
the dimension on that part is 2.88cm on height, yet I can still check out with
letter rate on 62 windows and this part. Set your dimension height lower because
it appears you are not allowing for the girth once you have packed.

Also:
 
Part No: 26021  Name: Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
* 
26021 Vehicle, Base 4 x 5 Roller Coaster Car
Parts: Vehicle, Base
Does not have dimensions in the catalog, so I get 70 of those windows plus 1
of these before I get kicked over to parcel rate. Or 69 windows and 2 of these
and so on. I somehow do not think that will fit like that in a mailer, it looks
to be at least 2.5 studs high. But given that some of the windows are being taken
away every time I increase the count for that part, it looks to be alright as
well, regardless of having no dimensions in the catalog.

Interesting conversation about IC. I wish we had more of these discussions so
other sellers can learn better how to set up their stores. I have just added
dimensions for this Roller Coaster part and set it to Volume Bound, btw.

Maybe it's worth considering adjusting the knob a bit, I mean, if I need
to enter max dimensions that are 50% of the max dimensions that I can actually
handle, it begs the question what those entered measurements really mean. Maybe
by adding some padding around the parts, or something like that. Or, obviously,
a simple x2 factor added to however the system works.
That way, everything will stay the same as it is now, which works pretty well,
but new users would not need to go through the trial and error process of first
entering accurate dimensions, find out it's not working out, and go through
a process of gradually reducing them to numbers that don't make sense but
do end up working well.