Discussion Forum: Messages by Rick_S. (1301)
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 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 26, 2015 16:15
 Subject: Re: Note Whether Official or Non-Official Post
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 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, RobErNat writes:
  In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
  In Suggestions, therobo writes:
  
I voted NO.

Is that no in your official capacity as BrickLink Catalog Administrator or in
your capacity as therobo, owner of Area of Bricks n' Studs?

Thor

To quote yourself:
you try to make something that is grey into a black and white issue

voted NO as well, as it's usually clear when an Admin expresses his/her personal
opinions, compared to 'official' statements.

actually its not so clear, I've always been of the opinion that a moderator
should only have one opinion, that of the site, not their own.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 26, 2015 16:14
 Subject: Re: Note Whether Official or Non-Official Post
 Viewed: 37 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
  Forum moderators are not just forum moderators. They are sellers, buyers, BL
members and AFOLs just like the rest of us. And they have their own personal
opinions on many things, just like the rest of us. However, it is sometimes confusing
to know whether a forum moderator is posting in their official capacity as a
BrickLink forum moderator or in their own personal capacity as a seller, buyer,
member or AFOL. Therefore, I propose having a checbox moderators should check
only if they are posting in their official capacity as a BrickLink forum moderator.
If the box is not checked, then their post can be considered their own opinion
or comment, rather than BrickLink's. Of course, for this to work, we need
a little icon next to their name if this checkbox has been checked.

Come to think of it, this suggestion might equally apply to other BrickLink admins
and sub-admins as well. It would be helpful and will avoid misunderstandings
to know if someone with dual capacity as an official BrickLink representative
and private BL member is posting on behalf of BrickLink or themselves. Among
other things, this may help BrickLink avoid legal issues, such as being held
accountable for the personal comments of its representatives.

Thor

to be honest I think the BL members account and moderator account should be separate,
in other words they would be anonymous they would log under a Moderator account
for moderating and their own account for their own stuff.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 26, 2015 12:10
 Subject: Re: Ability to duplicate Wanted list
 Viewed: 25 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, therobo writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  Ok this just might be me, but i'd like to have the ability to duplicate my
wanted lists, so if I have a wanted list and want another or two or so of
the same list for the same project but multiples of i'd like to be able to
make a copy of my list into another wanted list without having to make the list
all over again.

Select Copy below the page.

wheres that? or is that to copy the page on paper?

oh your talking on the edit screen, problem is you still need to transfer each
item individually, I'd like to transfer the whole list in one click and not
hundreds of clicks.

You can select the whole "Move" column at the top of the list, set it to 50 items
per page, then select "copy" on the bottom. That makes about 30 clicks and you
have copied all items.

been doing that still 10 pages at 50 items per page x 5, and already screwed
up and clicked move instead of copy, this way is redundant.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 26, 2015 11:53
 Subject: Re: Ability to duplicate Wanted list
 Viewed: 26 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  Ok this just might be me, but i'd like to have the ability to duplicate my
wanted lists, so if I have a wanted list and want another or two or so of
the same list for the same project but multiples of i'd like to be able to
make a copy of my list into another wanted list without having to make the list
all over again.

Select Copy below the page.

to give you a better understanding of what I mean I have a wanted list which
consists of 23 pages at 20 items per page that I want to make 5 of (yes big projects)
to currently do this I have to do one page at a time and copy them 5 times, so
i'm going to have to click the move all button (all on page) 23 times, move
the scroll from move to copy 23 times and click the new folder 23 times and I
have to do that 5 times, that's a lot of clicking i'm doing right now.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 26, 2015 11:39
 Subject: Re: Ability to duplicate Wanted list
 Viewed: 31 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  Ok this just might be me, but i'd like to have the ability to duplicate my
wanted lists, so if I have a wanted list and want another or two or so of
the same list for the same project but multiples of i'd like to be able to
make a copy of my list into another wanted list without having to make the list
all over again.

Select Copy below the page.

wheres that? or is that to copy the page on paper?

oh your talking on the edit screen, problem is you still need to transfer each
item individually, I'd like to transfer the whole list in one click and not
hundreds of clicks.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 26, 2015 11:35
 Subject: Re: Ability to duplicate Wanted list
 Viewed: 26 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, Brickwilbo writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  Ok this just might be me, but i'd like to have the ability to duplicate my
wanted lists, so if I have a wanted list and want another or two or so of
the same list for the same project but multiples of i'd like to be able to
make a copy of my list into another wanted list without having to make the list
all over again.

Select Copy below the page.

wheres that? or is that to copy the page on paper?
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 26, 2015 11:24
 Subject: Ability to duplicate Wanted list
 Viewed: 84 times
 Topic: Suggestions
 Status:Implemented
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Ok this just might be me, but i'd like to have the ability to duplicate my
wanted lists, so if I have a wanted list and want another or two or so of
the same list for the same project but multiples of i'd like to be able to
make a copy of my list into another wanted list without having to make the list
all over again.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 19:48
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 44 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
  Is a law any less a law because you don't agree with it? I concur that a
witch hunt is not called for, however, could we simply agree that it is illegal
and that Buyers should stop asking?

US Code Title 13 Chapter 9 Section 305: Penalties for unlawful export information
activities:

(a) CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—
(1) FAILURE TO FILE; SUBMISSION OF FALSE OR
MISLEADING INFORMATION.—Any person who
knowingly fails to file or knowingly submits
false or misleading export information
through the Shippers Export Declaration
(SED) (or any successor document) or the
Automated Export System (AES) shall be subject
to a fine not to exceed $10,000 per violation
or imprisonment for not more than 5
years, or both

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title13/pdf/USCODE-2010-title13-chap9.pdf

True alright. But still, someone simply.. disagree Law itself doesn't
impress me (e.g. during WW2 hiding people was

We can initate heated debates over following law vs. acting on personal persuasion,
but at the end of the day, there'll always be those two kinds of people.
The one who says 'I'll have to ship this in two batches to keep it below
the critical value', and the other who says 'nobody would benefit from
that' might as well ship it at once and write down half the value on it.

It shouldn't really matter what someone's position on law is. I've
noticed that to some people here that's hard to swallow an law is almost
holy, but.. really. I'm not saying you have to condone the other, but a simple
refusal should suffice. Nobody should of course do anything against their principles.

I always get a bit uneasy when these kinds of topics arise, because I feel people
get judged overly harsh. Many people just got out of their dark age, are young,
and are not aware that what they're asking is considered by some people to
be very malicious. Or people live in a country where parcels get stolen if they're
valuable, and they really want to have Lego as a hobby. It's easy for us
to judge people in that situation. And there could be other reasons.

From my point of view, for example, fishing is barbarous and immoral, but I'm
still able to be on perfectly fine civil terms with Americans who like to go
fishing with their son and I appreciate that's considered a nice and bonding
family activity. I wouldn't want "buyer participates in fishing" as a reason
to cancel an order either Let's just disagree with each other whenever
we feel like it and focus on getting the Lego from the one end to the other.
Once a point is reached where a mutual deal cannot be reached and someone is
getting forced to break their own principles, it's time to resort to cancellation.

sure, lie on the customs form its no risk to the buyer, all the risk is on the
seller, how would you feel if you receiving the package took on all the risk?
but until then I'm not breaking the law and taking such a huge risk because
a buyer wants to save a few bucks.

Actually the reality is the exact opposite. Putting aside all the legalese and
"technical" legal ramifications, this is the risk in reality:

1) Buyer has to pay the full customs duties owed
2) Buyer risks being known by local postal workers to receive many underdeclared
packages, so they may scrutinize his items more closely
3) The package could potentially be returned, in which case the buyer may have
to pay to have it shipped again.

Since no one is going to arrest or report or bring any legal action whatsoever
over a $100 package (it just does not happen in the real world. Regulators are
concerned about nabbing the $100 million corporate export cheaters instead),
the seller faces no practical risk whatsoever.

So really, the buyer bears all the risk. Seller faces no practical risk. You
might say "But...but... but... legally...technically... its still.... but but
but!"

To which i say, nice tinfoil hat. Have fun standing in your own way of making
a profit.

INTERNATIONAL BUYERS ALWAYS WELCOME IN MY STORE. CONTACT ME FOR SPECIAL SHIPPING
QUOTES

i'm not gonna bother with you, you will ignore the facts and when you finally
get popped you can cry its the buyers fault all you want, but your the one who
will suffer, since the buyer will deny anything about the reduced amount while
you the seller is the one who committed the crime, its a sorry state of affairs
how our education system has sunk so low that the results are a joke. good luck
and welcome to my ignore list.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 13:10
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 48 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919

part 13:

General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items.

part 9:

Breach:
We reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete all of your data and
deny you access to any or all of your data stored at BrickLink.com if you breach
this Agreement or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information
you provide to us. We also reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete
all of your data and deny you access to any or all of the site's features
at any time for any reason without prior notice.

So by BL's ToS by asking someone to break the law BL could find you in breach
of the contract and delete your account.

That is a default website disclaimer, bringing that up is an argument that could
be used to defend any reason to punish a buyer under discussion. Yes,
your membership can be terminated for any reason whatsoever, fair or unfair,
logical or unlogical, that's true.

The again, a forum topic on customs fraud has previously been censored by the
moderators, so it wouldn't surprise me if they'd ban someone for it.

its clear and simple, customs fraud is against the law, so don't ask, plain
and simple.

Committing customs fraud is against the law. You are free to ask
for it all day long.

no, it is against the law to solicit a criminal act. in other words asking someone
to commit a crime is against the law, only difference is in soliciting the person
asking is committing the crime, committing the crime is the one doing it.

Alright, well i can see you are just going to keep responding with more and more
outlandish replies and legal definitions and fine print. I am not a lawyer,
but usually what you are talking about refers to much more well defined contracts
for prostitution or murder etc. Here on bricklink, we buy and sell typically
low value lego orders. No one is getting their account terminated,no one is
going to jail, no one is i plementing any checkboxes for asking questions, so
all of this is overblown moot discussion nonsense

Please reserve the forum for serious discussion that actually impacts us....
thank you....

actually the solicitation of a criminal act is serious believe it or not and
asking someone to lie on an official government form is also very serious too
and a crime.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:58
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 40 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  Committing customs fraud is against the law. You are free to ask
for it all day long.

http://definitions.uslegal.com/c/criminal-solicitation/
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:57
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 34 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919

part 13:

General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items.

part 9:

Breach:
We reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete all of your data and
deny you access to any or all of your data stored at BrickLink.com if you breach
this Agreement or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information
you provide to us. We also reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete
all of your data and deny you access to any or all of the site's features
at any time for any reason without prior notice.

So by BL's ToS by asking someone to break the law BL could find you in breach
of the contract and delete your account.

That is a default website disclaimer, bringing that up is an argument that could
be used to defend any reason to punish a buyer under discussion. Yes,
your membership can be terminated for any reason whatsoever, fair or unfair,
logical or unlogical, that's true.

The again, a forum topic on customs fraud has previously been censored by the
moderators, so it wouldn't surprise me if they'd ban someone for it.

its clear and simple, customs fraud is against the law, so don't ask, plain
and simple.

Committing customs fraud is against the law. You are free to ask
for it all day long.

no, it is against the law to solicit a criminal act. in other words asking someone
to commit a crime is against the law, only difference is in soliciting the person
asking is committing the crime, committing the crime is the one doing it.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:54
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 37 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

Yup, rather than defining the buyer, maybe we should have a checkbox "seller
flips out when asked to commit customs fraud". That'd solve everything, the
sellers who get offended by the question can check that box and will not get
it that often anymore. And when they do they can point to the checkbox and get
legitimately angry and stoplist the buyer
But you're right, asking this should never be punished. It's not an illegal
action, it's not a faillure to reach an agreement at the point of asking,
and it is not a personal insult.

so when a person asks another person to kill someone, that's not against
the law? even though no crime has been committed?

i am not a lawyer but i am pretty sure you would need a consiberable amount of
court-admissible evidence to convict someone based on just asking another person
to kill somebody, if no killing or attempt to kill has taken place. For all you
know, the person might just be joking.

you would be surprised, you should watch the news more often.

OK mr. tinfoil hat

actually its called criminal solicitation, and while not as severe as the actual
crime, it is a crime.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:53
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 32 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919

part 13:

General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items.

part 9:

Breach:
We reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete all of your data and
deny you access to any or all of your data stored at BrickLink.com if you breach
this Agreement or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information
you provide to us. We also reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete
all of your data and deny you access to any or all of the site's features
at any time for any reason without prior notice.

So by BL's ToS by asking someone to break the law BL could find you in breach
of the contract and delete your account.

That is a default website disclaimer, bringing that up is an argument that could
be used to defend any reason to punish a buyer under discussion. Yes,
your membership can be terminated for any reason whatsoever, fair or unfair,
logical or unlogical, that's true.

The again, a forum topic on customs fraud has previously been censored by the
moderators, so it wouldn't surprise me if they'd ban someone for it.

its clear and simple, customs fraud is against the law, so don't ask, plain
and simple.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:50
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 27 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

Yup, rather than defining the buyer, maybe we should have a checkbox "seller
flips out when asked to commit customs fraud". That'd solve everything, the
sellers who get offended by the question can check that box and will not get
it that often anymore. And when they do they can point to the checkbox and get
legitimately angry and stoplist the buyer
But you're right, asking this should never be punished. It's not an illegal
action, it's not a faillure to reach an agreement at the point of asking,
and it is not a personal insult.

so when a person asks another person to kill someone, that's not against
the law? even though no crime has been committed?

i am not a lawyer but i am pretty sure you would need a consiberable amount of
court-admissible evidence to convict someone based on just asking another person
to kill somebody, if no killing or attempt to kill has taken place. For all you
know, the person might just be joking.

you would be surprised, you should watch the news more often.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:40
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
 Viewed: 33 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

Yup, rather than defining the buyer, maybe we should have a checkbox "seller
flips out when asked to commit customs fraud". That'd solve everything, the
sellers who get offended by the question can check that box and will not get
it that often anymore. And when they do they can point to the checkbox and get
legitimately angry and stoplist the buyer
But you're right, asking this should never be punished. It's not an illegal
action, it's not a faillure to reach an agreement at the point of asking,
and it is not a personal insult.

so when a person asks another person to kill someone, that's not against
the law? even though no crime has been committed?
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:38
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919

part 13:

General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items.

part 9:

Breach:
We reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete all of your data and
deny you access to any or all of your data stored at BrickLink.com if you breach
this Agreement or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information
you provide to us. We also reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete
all of your data and deny you access to any or all of the site's features
at any time for any reason without prior notice.

So by BL's ToS by asking someone to break the law BL could find you in breach
of the contract and delete your account.

Do you know by chance where I can get one of those tinfoil hats you are wearing?

are you advocating that we break the law and break BL's ToS ? and how long
you want to be a member here?
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:37
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
  Has anyone ever heard of anyone ever getting into the slightest difficulty after
committing this horrible crime, worse than murder, rape or genocide altogether?
Peter

http://jonesbahamas.com/customs-investigating-fraud-cases/

http://www.natlawreview.com/article/customs-fraud-whistleblower-cases-rise

http://www.contingencybusinesslitigationattorneyblog.com/2014/04/us-customs-fraud-whistleblower.html

that's some of the bigger ones, but also the USPS is taking closer inspection
of packages being shipped out of country, my mothers package which was shipped
to Spain was opened by the USPS service and inspected. so yes, you can say its
a serious matter.

Oh God, not an inspection of your mother's package! That is the truly harsh
punishment for a most heinous crime.

Thanks for providing those links to multi-million dollar customs fraud cases.
You have just proved that all of this hoopla about customs fraud is so far overblown
it is almost ridiculous.

Let me know when you locate the news story about the "Lego seller arrested for
illegally declaring $100 parcel to Singapore as only $10"

oh there won't be news stories about that, but they do happen, and my mothers
package was checked for customs declaration.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:28
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

I take it you meant

"Buyer demanded"

I think that's an important difference. Just asking for it shouldn't
be cause for a seller to freak out and cancel the order. If a buyer demands it
(like demanding a lower price. which is already in there as one of the reasons)
then that is a legitimate deal breaker.

Has that ever stopped the thought police from trying to regulate our speech ?
Pretty soon they will be calling for a checkbox to cancel an order if the buyer
asks about the weather in the seller's country.

Customs fraud is law made and enforced by government(s). Bricklink is not a
government. Even if a buyer breaks a legal contract here on bricklink, it would
be a matter for the courts to handle, not bricklink.

Since when is asking a question a crime ? Last i checked, you usually have to
act in order to face consequences. Besides, the seller already has the ability
to cancel an order for almost any reason they desire, so long as it is part of
their store terms.

http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919

part 13:

General Compliance with Laws:
You shall comply with all applicable laws, statutes, ordinances and regulations
regarding your use of our service and your listing, purchase and sale of items.

part 9:

Breach:
We reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete all of your data and
deny you access to any or all of your data stored at BrickLink.com if you breach
this Agreement or if we are unable to verify or authenticate any information
you provide to us. We also reserve the right to terminate your membership, delete
all of your data and deny you access to any or all of the site's features
at any time for any reason without prior notice.

So by BL's ToS by asking someone to break the law BL could find you in breach
of the contract and delete your account.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:17
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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In Suggestions, blackballoon writes:
  In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
  Has anyone ever heard of anyone ever getting into the slightest difficulty after
committing this horrible crime, worse than murder, rape or genocide altogether?
Peter

My cousin's friend's sister's uncle's hairstylist's mother's
automechanic SWEARS that a package he sent in the 1990's was held by the
local post office and marked "ADDITIONAL POSTAGE DUE" upon delivery of a $200
package declared as $50

Customs Fraud typicallly applies to commercial shipments of very large value
(for example, shipment of $100 million of new microprocessors declared as $1
million by corporate tax cheaters, or a $50 million Picasso painting smuggled
across borders declared as $50 value). There is an option on the USPS website
to select if the package contents are below or above $2,500 which is the current
"commercial shipment" threshhold value which will likely require a customs broker.

that's for shipments into the US.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 12:15
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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In Suggestions, Legopeter writes:
  Has anyone ever heard of anyone ever getting into the slightest difficulty after
committing this horrible crime, worse than murder, rape or genocide altogether?
Peter

http://jonesbahamas.com/customs-investigating-fraud-cases/

http://www.natlawreview.com/article/customs-fraud-whistleblower-cases-rise

http://www.contingencybusinesslitigationattorneyblog.com/2014/04/us-customs-fraud-whistleblower.html

that's some of the bigger ones, but also the USPS is taking closer inspection
of packages being shipped out of country, my mothers package which was shipped
to Spain was opened by the USPS service and inspected. so yes, you can say its
a serious matter.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 11:58
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  it does not mean he has to break the law, its like you asking him to go rob a
liquor store, would you ask someone to go commit a robbery? that's what your
doing.

If someone would ask me to rob a liquor store, I'd simply say no. If I'd
catch them doing it themselves, I'd call the authorities.

Again, these comparisons are (regardless of their validity) highly subjective.
I, for example, would not consider an inaccurate value declaration more offending
than asking for a lower price. Asking for a lower price for no logical reason
is much more offending to me as it implies the buyer wants to get ahead of other
buyers which to my moral compass is much more selfish. But these things are personal
so I will send a friendly reply in either case. To you it feels like being asked
to rob a liquor store. To a guy from another country it feels like asking whether
a seller would help them increase the likelihood of an order arriving without
being stolen.

I think people who get angry over this question just need to snap out of it and
understand that the buyer did not intend any offense. It seems some people blow
this hugely out of proportion in their minds, thinking "oh my god, this buyer
is implying that I'm the sort of person that'd commit crimes, they're
saying that I'm a horrible person, I'm so offended"

So let's just...

"Hi seller, could you please write a lower value on the package?"
"Thank you for your inquiry. I'm afraid I can't do that for you. What
you are asking is actually illegal, and I have chosen for my business to be 100%
in accordance with the law. My apologies for the inconvenience."

Repeat after me...

but it is very accurate, to ask someone to lie on the customs form is asking
them to break the law, a crime that can have prison time and a fine, pretty much
what happens if you rob a liquor store.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 10:54
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  What I mean is, your experience seems to illustrate my point: You have to find
a way to work with other people in a way that agrees with your own terms. So
rather than boycotting everything and everyone, we promote what we stand for
and either do the job that way, or not at all.

Following the logic of "buyer asked for inaccurate customs declaration" as a
reason to break off the deal, I would have to boycot all of the post offices
here as well, as they all sympathise with inaccurate customs declarations. Yes,
I am aware it is illegal, but what I mean is; I have no problem with simply pointing
out which way I will have it. Otherwise, I would be out of business because
there'd be no place left where I could ship out my orders (Besides, the
bare fact of something being illegal doesn't impress me very much in and
of itself, running a red light is illegal too but I and alot of other people
do it frequently when there's no harm in it. Laws serve people, people don't
serve laws.)

I understand it is annoying to get messages asking do to this when you won't,
and you have to tell that over and over again. However, I don't think that's
a significant workload compared to other types of inquiries we're getting.
To me it's proper customer service to simply point out what can and what
cannot be done in a friendly way.


it does not mean he has to break the law, its like you asking him to go rob a
liquor store, would you ask someone to go commit a robbery? that's what your
doing.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 23, 2015 10:51
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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 Topic: Suggestions
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In Suggestions, Teup writes:
  In Suggestions, kzinti writes:
  Is a law any less a law because you don't agree with it? I concur that a
witch hunt is not called for, however, could we simply agree that it is illegal
and that Buyers should stop asking?

US Code Title 13 Chapter 9 Section 305: Penalties for unlawful export information
activities:

(a) CRIMINAL PENALTIES.—
(1) FAILURE TO FILE; SUBMISSION OF FALSE OR
MISLEADING INFORMATION.—Any person who
knowingly fails to file or knowingly submits
false or misleading export information
through the Shippers Export Declaration
(SED) (or any successor document) or the
Automated Export System (AES) shall be subject
to a fine not to exceed $10,000 per violation
or imprisonment for not more than 5
years, or both

http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/USCODE-2010-title13/pdf/USCODE-2010-title13-chap9.pdf

True alright. But still, someone simply.. disagree Law itself doesn't
impress me (e.g. during WW2 hiding people was

We can initate heated debates over following law vs. acting on personal persuasion,
but at the end of the day, there'll always be those two kinds of people.
The one who says 'I'll have to ship this in two batches to keep it below
the critical value', and the other who says 'nobody would benefit from
that' might as well ship it at once and write down half the value on it.

It shouldn't really matter what someone's position on law is. I've
noticed that to some people here that's hard to swallow an law is almost
holy, but.. really. I'm not saying you have to condone the other, but a simple
refusal should suffice. Nobody should of course do anything against their principles.

I always get a bit uneasy when these kinds of topics arise, because I feel people
get judged overly harsh. Many people just got out of their dark age, are young,
and are not aware that what they're asking is considered by some people to
be very malicious. Or people live in a country where parcels get stolen if they're
valuable, and they really want to have Lego as a hobby. It's easy for us
to judge people in that situation. And there could be other reasons.

From my point of view, for example, fishing is barbarous and immoral, but I'm
still able to be on perfectly fine civil terms with Americans who like to go
fishing with their son and I appreciate that's considered a nice and bonding
family activity. I wouldn't want "buyer participates in fishing" as a reason
to cancel an order either Let's just disagree with each other whenever
we feel like it and focus on getting the Lego from the one end to the other.
Once a point is reached where a mutual deal cannot be reached and someone is
getting forced to break their own principles, it's time to resort to cancellation.

sure, lie on the customs form its no risk to the buyer, all the risk is on the
seller, how would you feel if you receiving the package took on all the risk?
but until then I'm not breaking the law and taking such a huge risk because
a buyer wants to save a few bucks.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 22, 2015 16:30
 Subject: Re: Checkboxes to describe sellers (part II)
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In Suggestions, eileenkeeney writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:

  
and yet people lie even in their own terms and splash pages, so why wouldn't
they lie on a button? now excuse me had an order from another site get paid and
must be off to the post office so they get it soon.

We can not expect perfection here.
I can not think of any perfect answer.

Those who will try to deceive will try no matter what the system is.

As for terms that reflect how much a person will be charged, auto-checkout seems
to be a superior solution for preventing issues.
But it also potentially leads to higher costs, since a perfect algorithm for
determining the cheapest possible shipping is probably not available (it would
need to know the exact shape of each piece, and apply some very complicated geometry).

As for shipping time, The few times I want a piece quickly, I do look for a mention
of shipping times either in the store terms, the splash page, or within the seller's
feedback.
More often I am just patient. Sometimes I am even patient enough to order from
a store that I know will take a long time to ship, since I also know they won't
rip me off.

If you are likely to take 7 days to ship, do you really want business from a
customer who will be unhappy with this?

Or is the issue more that you normally will provide a certain level of service,
but do not want to promise that level of service, but also do not want to be
excluded from searches of buyers wanting that level of service?

Then we have to ask if it is ok to check a box, indicating you will ship within
3 days, if you expect to meet this goal for most (but not all) orders.

well i'm currently in an issue with one store which said they are having
delays in shipping but orders will go out in 5-10 days maybe sooner, after 10
days no order shipped emailed them, they told me its 10 business days and supposedly
my order will ship today, supposedly.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: May 22, 2015 15:46
 Subject: Re: Add 'Customs Fraud' to option to cancel order
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In Suggestions, LordSkylark writes:
  Please add

"Buyer wanted seller to lie on custom's form"
as an option for the seller to cancel the order.

Andy

ok this I can sign up for.

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