Discussion Forum: Thread 283513

 Author: samsam2 View Messages Posted By samsam2
 Posted: Feb 8, 2021 01:49
 Subject: set 1944-1
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 Topic: Catalog
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samsam2 (2945)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
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I'm wondering if these are the same set? The way they are listed seems strange
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Basic Set with Storage Case
* 
1944-1 (Inv) Basic Set with Storage Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Universal Building Set
* 
1944-2 (Inv) Universal Building Set
133 Parts, 1 Minifigure, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
If one is a set containing a sub-set, shouldn't there
be just one set of instructions and one box?
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Feb 8, 2021 03:26
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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yorbrick (1206)

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In Catalog, samsam2 writes:
  I'm wondering if these are the same set? The way they are listed seems strange
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Basic Set with Storage Case
* 
1944-1 (Inv) Basic Set with Storage Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Universal Building Set
* 
1944-2 (Inv) Universal Building Set
133 Parts, 1 Minifigure, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
If one is a set containing a sub-set, shouldn't there
be just one set of instructions and one box?

I don't have it. But it seems the set was sold with a cardboard box, and
also with the plastic storage box (gear) hence the difference.
 Author: samsam2 View Messages Posted By samsam2
 Posted: Feb 8, 2021 13:30
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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 Topic: Catalog
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samsam2 (2945)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
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Store: Stratford Bricks
What I'm saying is 1944-1 is a superset that contains, 'gear' the
storage case and set 1944-2 which is the set with the actual parts. Therefore
1944-1 does not need an instruction entry, only 1944-2 which is the set with
the parts. Once this question is sorted out, I'm also inclined to think there
should only be one box, but I'm less sure of this point.

Stormchaser is the one who added the -2 subset so maybe when he has time to respond,
he will explain how this works.

In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
  In Catalog, samsam2 writes:
  I'm wondering if these are the same set? The way they are listed seems strange
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Basic Set with Storage Case
* 
1944-1 (Inv) Basic Set with Storage Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Universal Building Set
* 
1944-2 (Inv) Universal Building Set
133 Parts, 1 Minifigure, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
If one is a set containing a sub-set, shouldn't there
be just one set of instructions and one box?

I don't have it. But it seems the set was sold with a cardboard box, and
also with the plastic storage box (gear) hence the difference.
 Author: StormChaser View Messages Posted By StormChaser
 Posted: Feb 8, 2021 14:54
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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StormChaser (712)

Location:  USA, Oklahoma
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In Catalog, samsam2 writes:
  1944-1 does not need an instruction entry, only 1944-2 which is the set with
the parts.
Stormchaser is the one who added the -2 subset so maybe when he has time to respond,
he will explain how this works.

You are correct that 1944-1 technically should not have an instructions entry.
However, the instructions entry cannot be removed from the set entry due to
a flaw in site architecture. Thus, it remains.
 Author: samsam2 View Messages Posted By samsam2
 Posted: Feb 8, 2021 15:11
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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samsam2 (2945)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
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Store: Stratford Bricks
In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
  
You are correct that 1944-1 technically should not have an instructions entry.
However, the instructions entry cannot be removed from the set entry due to
a flaw in site architecture. Thus, it remains.

So is it done this way because sometimes 1944-2 was sold separately and not always
combined with the storage case? If so then the name seems very wrong. If not,
then why the sub-set method and not just a single set with gear?
 Author: starbeanie View Messages Posted By starbeanie
 Posted: Feb 8, 2021 15:29
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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starbeanie (11533)

Location:  USA, Virginia
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Because " Universal Building Set With Storage Case" is the name on the box. We
name sets according to the box name.

In Catalog, samsam2 writes:
  In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
  
You are correct that 1944-1 technically should not have an instructions entry.
However, the instructions entry cannot be removed from the set entry due to
a flaw in site architecture. Thus, it remains.

So is it done this way because sometimes 1944-2 was sold separately and not always
combined with the storage case? If so then the name seems very wrong. If not,
then why the sub-set method and not just a single set with gear?
 Author: samsam2 View Messages Posted By samsam2
 Posted: Feb 8, 2021 17:23
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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samsam2 (2945)

Location:  Canada, Ontario
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Store: Stratford Bricks
Sure, but I guess I don't understand why there are two sets. Now that I look,
I see it was done with a few other similar sets. It's confusing when you
have a set of instructions and you come across two sets that are in reality the
same set. It's not normal to have one set with two opportunities to list
the instructions. As always with these situations, it waters down the listing
value.

I guess there was no other solution. What about making the primary listing as
'gear' with the set as part of the 'gear'? I'm sure it's
been thought of, but it would eliminate extraneous listings of instructions and
boxes.

In Catalog, starbeanie writes:
  Because " Universal Building Set With Storage Case" is the name on the box. We
name sets according to the box name.
 Author: StormChaser View Messages Posted By StormChaser
 Posted: Feb 9, 2021 13:25
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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StormChaser (712)

Location:  USA, Oklahoma
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Store: Penultimate Harbinger
In Catalog, samsam2 writes:
  Sure, but I guess I don't understand why there are two sets.

The idea is to treat sets with storage cases consistently catalog-wide when the
items in a bundle are packaged separately. Some sets absolutely require separate
catalog entries because they were sold in different ways:

 
Set No: 6271  Name: Imperial Flagship
* 
6271-1 (Inv) Imperial Flagship
295 Parts, 4 Minifigures, 1992
Sets: Pirates: Pirates I: Imperial Guards
 
Set No: 6271  Name: Imperial Flagship with Free Storage Case
* 
6271-2 (Inv) Imperial Flagship with Free Storage Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1992
Sets: Pirates: Pirates I: Imperial Guards



 
Set No: 7153  Name: Jango Fett's Slave I
* 
7153-1 (Inv) Jango Fett's Slave I
352 Parts, 2 Minifigures, 2002
Sets: Star Wars: Star Wars Episode 2
 
Set No: 65153  Name: Jango Fett's Slave I (Set 7153) with Carrying Case
* 
65153-1 (Inv) Jango Fett's Slave I (Set 7153) with Carrying Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 2002
Sets: Star Wars: Star Wars Episode 2



 
Set No: 3722  Name: Treasure Tomb
* 
3722-2 (Inv) Treasure Tomb
147 Parts, 3 Minifigures, 1998
Sets: Adventurers: Desert
 
Set No: 3722  Name: Treasure Tomb (Toys "R" Us Exclusive)
* 
3722-1 (Inv) Treasure Tomb (Toys "R" Us Exclusive)
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1998
Sets: Adventurers: Desert

Therefore, for the sake of consistency, all sets should ideally be treated like
the above examples. Moving toward the catalog-wide consistency in this area
was something I began some years ago and never finished.
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: Feb 9, 2021 04:12
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
 Viewed: 43 times
 Topic: Catalog Requests
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Stellar (4142)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
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In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
  In Catalog, samsam2 writes:
  1944-1 does not need an instruction entry, only 1944-2 which is the set with
the parts.
Stormchaser is the one who added the -2 subset so maybe when he has time to respond,
he will explain how this works.

You are correct that 1944-1 technically should not have an instructions entry.
However, the instructions entry cannot be removed from the set entry due to
a flaw in site architecture. Thus, it remains.

I thought that indeed it can be removed, check most foil packs:

 
Set No: 471906  Name: Rex foil pack
* 
471906-1 (Inv) Rex foil pack
1 Minifigure, 2019
Sets: The LEGO Movie 2

If

 
Set No: 1944  Name: Basic Set with Storage Case
* 
1944-1 (Inv) Basic Set with Storage Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
has

 
Set No: 1944  Name: Universal Building Set
* 
1944-2 (Inv) Universal Building Set
133 Parts, 1 Minifigure, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
in its inventory, then this entry should/can be removed

 
Instruction No: 1944  Name: Basic Set with Storage Case
* 
1944-1 Basic Set with Storage Case
Instructions: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
just the same as the foil pack attached...

Also, can the images of
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Basic Set with Storage Case
* 
1944-1 (Inv) Basic Set with Storage Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
be moved to default the one showing the storage
case with the boxed set?
 Author: StormChaser View Messages Posted By StormChaser
 Posted: Feb 9, 2021 13:34
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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 Topic: Catalog Requests
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StormChaser (712)

Location:  USA, Oklahoma
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Store: Penultimate Harbinger
In Catalog Requests, Stellar writes:
  I thought that indeed it can be removed, check most foil packs

Instructions entries can be removed. In the case of 1944-1, it's a different
kind of flaw.

  Also, can the images of [1944-1] be moved to default the one showing the storage
case with the boxed set?

We can't move images from one place to another. Images have to be downloaded
and uploaded. You're welcome to do this if you'd like the images arranged
differently.
 Author: Turez View Messages Posted By Turez
 Posted: Feb 9, 2021 07:19
 Subject: Re: set 1944-1
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Turez (47)

Location:  Germany, Niedersachsen
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In Catalog, samsam2 writes:
  I'm wondering if these are the same set? The way they are listed seems strange
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Basic Set with Storage Case
* 
1944-1 (Inv) Basic Set with Storage Case
1 Set, 1 Gear, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Universal Building Set
* 
1944-2 (Inv) Universal Building Set
133 Parts, 1 Minifigure, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
If one is a set containing a sub-set, shouldn't there
be just one set of instructions and one box?

I think it would make sense to "merge" both entries so that there is only one
set entry which has the parts, the minifigure and the gear item in its inventory
like it is also done here
 
Set No: 6499  Name: Time Tunnelator
* 
6499-1 (Inv) Time Tunnelator
76 Parts, 1 Minifigure, 1 Gear, 1997
Sets: Time Cruisers / Twisters
or here
 
Set No: 1853  Name: Navigator
* 
1853-1 (Inv) Navigator
148 Parts, 2 Minifigures, 1 Gear, 1996
Sets: Time Cruisers / Twisters

Sellers can always add a note "without storage case" if the only have the box
with bricks for sale so I don't see any reason for a separate entry for
 
Set No: 1944  Name: Universal Building Set
* 
1944-2 (Inv) Universal Building Set
133 Parts, 1 Minifigure, 1983
Sets: Universal Building Set: Basic Set
.
And calling a set "Basic Set with Storage Case" when it actually does NOT include
the storage case is definitely misleading.