|
 |
| | | Author: | SezaR  | | Posted: | Jun 9, 2019 03:37 | | Subject: | Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests (Entry) | | Status: | Open | |
|
| Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 2 Part 73090b Red Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Sealed, Dimple on Ends (Alternate) (match ID 2)
* Change 2 Part Red 73090a Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Openings, Center Seam on Ends {match ID 0 to 2}
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Jun 9, 2019 03:41 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 15 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 2 Part 73090b Red Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Sealed, Dimple on Ends (Alternate) (match ID 2)
* Change 2 Part Red 73090a Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Openings, Center Seam on Ends {match ID 0 to 2}
|
TLG redesigned boxes in 1989, so I believe the second version of this set was
first released in 1989. We know that the second version of weight brick was produced
in 1987 so we can expect the copies of 9605-2 with first version of box should
come with either variations of red weight brick, but the second version of box
should only come with the 73090b.
Anyway, I found this copy whose parts are half in sealed bags, with 73090b
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lego-dacta-technic-5v-resource-set-537091747
(photos attached)
I found also this used copy with 73090b
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lego-1034-technic-teachers-resource-1732833884
These are two used copies with 73090a
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lego-dacta-technic-5v-resource-set-509116569
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-lego-technic-set-lot-1034-1879917209
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jun 9, 2019 06:12 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 2 Part 73090b Red Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Sealed, Dimple on Ends (Alternate) (match ID 2)
* Change 2 Part Red 73090a Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Openings, Center Seam on Ends {match ID 0 to 2}
|
I was unaware of the variant. Actually totally unaware of weighted bricks before
I got this set. But I still have 2 of the 4 that I had and they have dimples.
I don't think there is any reason to keep the non-dimple in the inventory.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | paulvdb | | Posted: | Jun 9, 2019 06:16 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, axaday writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 2 Part 73090b Red Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Sealed, Dimple on Ends (Alternate) (match ID 2)
* Change 2 Part Red 73090a Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Openings, Center Seam on Ends {match ID 0 to 2}
|
I was unaware of the variant. Actually totally unaware of weighted bricks before
I got this set. But I still have 2 of the 4 that I had and they have dimples.
I don't think there is any reason to keep the non-dimple in the inventory.
|
Thanks for checking your set. I have removed 73090a from the inventory and changed
73090b to regular.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Jun 9, 2019 21:36 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, paulvdb writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, axaday writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 2 Part 73090b Red Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Sealed, Dimple on Ends (Alternate) (match ID 2)
* Change 2 Part Red 73090a Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Openings, Center Seam on Ends {match ID 0 to 2}
|
I was unaware of the variant. Actually totally unaware of weighted bricks before
I got this set. But I still have 2 of the 4 that I had and they have dimples.
I don't think there is any reason to keep the non-dimple in the inventory.
|
Thanks for checking your set. I have removed 73090a from the inventory and changed
73090b to regular.
|
Hi Paul and Randy,
I thought to share with you how I think about thig inventory change request and
similar ones:
What is your evidence that 73090a did not come in earlier release of this set?
It is hard to find vintage sets in new condition in which we can see the parts
through photos,... If we find one new copy of a set in which we see one variant
of a part, how does this prove that the other variant did never come with the
set? Each time we find a reliable/new copy of a set coming with one variant of
a part, I don't think we have to remove the other variant, unless if we have
other info (like the time-line of that part, we cannot find the other variant
is any used copy, the photos of few new copies that we have only shows one variant...)
In this case, the earlier weight element 73090a did certainly come. This part
was in production until the end of 1986. We know that
was designed for the boat sets
and
both releases in 1987. As this set
[9605-2]
is released in 1985, it came with 73090a between 1985-6. I included two used
copies coming with 73090a. If we keep checking, at some point we will find a
used copy with 73090a, but I think it is not necessary to doubt 73090a.
We have also checked many copies of trains 7735 and 7745 and found out that 73090b
(red or black) came only with those releases after 1987.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jun 9, 2019 21:50 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| My understanding was that we have no responsibility to rule out the possibility
of variants. This set was just inventoried for the first time a couple months
ago and we have no evidence as yet that the older variant was in it. I originally
built the inventory from the inventory of a similar set and I didn't know
there were variants on the weighted brick. I just used the one that was in the
other inventory. After you pointed out that you found dimpled ones I went and
check what I have left and they are dimpled. So there just isn't any evidence
that the older variant was in the set. If we ever find some, I'm sure they'll
be glad to update.
In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, paulvdb writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, axaday writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 2 Part 73090b Red Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Sealed, Dimple on Ends (Alternate) (match ID 2)
* Change 2 Part Red 73090a Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Openings, Center Seam on Ends {match ID 0 to 2}
|
I was unaware of the variant. Actually totally unaware of weighted bricks before
I got this set. But I still have 2 of the 4 that I had and they have dimples.
I don't think there is any reason to keep the non-dimple in the inventory.
|
Thanks for checking your set. I have removed 73090a from the inventory and changed
73090b to regular.
|
Hi Paul and Randy,
I thought to share with you how I think about thig inventory change request and
similar ones:
What is your evidence that 73090a did not come in earlier release of this set?
It is hard to find vintage sets in new condition in which we can see the parts
through photos,... If we find one new copy of a set in which we see one variant
of a part, how does this prove that the other variant did never come with the
set? Each time we find a reliable/new copy of a set coming with one variant of
a part, I don't think we have to remove the other variant, unless if we have
other info (like the time-line of that part, we cannot find the other variant
is any used copy, the photos of few new copies that we have only shows one variant...)
In this case, the earlier weight element 73090a did certainly come. This part
was in production until the end of 1986. We know that
was designed for the boat sets
and
both releases in 1987. As this set
[9605-2]
is released in 1985, it came with 73090a between 1985-6. I included two used
copies coming with 73090a. If we keep checking, at some point we will find a
used copy with 73090a, but I think it is not necessary to doubt 73090a.
We have also checked many copies of trains 7735 and 7745 and found out that 73090b
(red or black) came only with those releases after 1987.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Jun 14, 2019 07:19 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, axaday writes:
| | My understanding was that we have no responsibility to rule out the possibility
of variants.
|
I am sure we all want the inventories to be as correct as possible.
This set was just inventoried for the first time a couple months
| | ago and we have no evidence as yet that the older variant was in it.
|
The later variant was first produced in 1987 for the boat as the first variant
73090a wouldn't work well with these boats, but this dacta set was released
in 1985. Now, 9605-2 is the only set released before 1987 in which 73090b appears
as regular.
| | I originally built the inventory from the inventory of a similar set and I didn't know
there were variants on the weighted brick. I just used the one that was in the
other inventory. After you pointed out that you found dimpled ones I went and
check what I have left and they are dimpled. So there just isn't any evidence
that the older variant was in the set.
|
Great job and thanks for building the inventory of this set. I had no doubt the
later version of weight brick 73090b came with this set, found an evidence and
your is another one.
| | If we ever find some, I'm sure they'll be glad to update.
|
I am sure they do but this is not the point. Recently, I have been trying to
add later variants of some parts to some sets (like this case) or
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=252921
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=251739
or remove the early variant from a set like this case:
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=252863
https://www.bricklink.com/messageThread.asp?ID=252549
I know that these types of inv. change requests are tricky. But if I know that
my inventory change request to add a variant would risk the other variant to
get removed from that set, then I have to think twice before. (it is already
hard to find a reliable source of a vintage set, and it is so harder to find
two reliable sources of a vintage set in which we can see both variations)
In the case of this inventor change request, no evidence is given that 73090a
did never come with this set.
| |
In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, paulvdb writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, axaday writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 2 Part 73090b Red Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Sealed, Dimple on Ends (Alternate) (match ID 2)
* Change 2 Part Red 73090a Brick, Modified 2 x 6 x 2 Weight - Bottom Openings, Center Seam on Ends {match ID 0 to 2}
|
I was unaware of the variant. Actually totally unaware of weighted bricks before
I got this set. But I still have 2 of the 4 that I had and they have dimples.
I don't think there is any reason to keep the non-dimple in the inventory.
|
Thanks for checking your set. I have removed 73090a from the inventory and changed
73090b to regular.
|
Hi Paul and Randy,
I thought to share with you how I think about thig inventory change request and
similar ones:
What is your evidence that 73090a did not come in earlier release of this set?
It is hard to find vintage sets in new condition in which we can see the parts
through photos,... If we find one new copy of a set in which we see one variant
of a part, how does this prove that the other variant did never come with the
set? Each time we find a reliable/new copy of a set coming with one variant of
a part, I don't think we have to remove the other variant, unless if we have
other info (like the time-line of that part, we cannot find the other variant
is any used copy, the photos of few new copies that we have only shows one variant...)
In this case, the earlier weight element 73090a did certainly come. This part
was in production until the end of 1986. We know that
was designed for the boat sets
and
both releases in 1987. As this set
[9605-2]
is released in 1985, it came with 73090a between 1985-6. I included two used
copies coming with 73090a. If we keep checking, at some point we will find a
used copy with 73090a, but I think it is not necessary to doubt 73090a.
We have also checked many copies of trains 7735 and 7745 and found out that 73090b
(red or black) came only with those releases after 1987.
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jun 14, 2019 15:04 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | I know that these types of inv. change requests are tricky. But if I know that
my inventory change request to add a variant would risk the other variant to
get removed from that set, then I have to think twice before.
|
This is a pretty special case SezaR. A brand new inventory of a 34-year-old
set doesn't happen every day. The older variant didn't just get tossed
aside. If it had been an old inventory, an alternate would surely have been
added. If I hadn't said anything, maybe they still would have, trusting
me. But when the parts in question are still in hand and I am willing to step
up and say that what I put in the inventory was incorrect, then we no longer
have any direct evidence that the older variant belongs there.
Your argument that earlier versions of this set should plausibly contain the
earlier version of the weighted brick seems very reasonable. But most of the
time Bricklink admins are not going to move on a reasonable argument. A picture
of a sealed bag is the gold standard here. Exceptions get made here and there,
but I have never had a request rejected when I turned in a picture of the sealed
bag with the part showing.
| | (it is already
hard to find a reliable source of a vintage set, and it is so harder to find
two reliable sources of a vintage set in which we can see both variations)
|
There are variants already in that inventory because I built it from two boxes
that were not the same. So variants are still findable. I am still on the lookout
for more of that set because it has a lot of neat things in it.
But I will say this here: When I went to look the other day to see if mine had
the dimple and I only found 2 I assumed I had sold the other two. I went just
now to pursue the idea of contacting the buyer and found that I hadn't sold
them. So I checked my inventory. I still have the other two. I put them in
another location because they had some surface damage. So there is still a chance
here. I will check if those have dimples this evening. Cross your fingers.
| | In the case of this inventor change request, no evidence is given that 73090a
did never come with this set.
|
I just don't think you should waste your energy on that issue. There are
all sorts of things for which there is no evidence that they were NEVER in the
set. That set and many other sets. Bricklink doesn't want to concern themselves
with that. No evidence that is wasn't won't work. Find evidence that
it was and they will concern themselves with that.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Jun 14, 2019 21:36 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, axaday writes:
| | But I will say this here: When I went to look the other day to see if mine had
the dimple and I only found 2 I assumed I had sold the other two. I went just
now to pursue the idea of contacting the buyer and found that I hadn't sold
them. So I checked my inventory. I still have the other two. I put them in
another location because they had some surface damage. So there is still a chance
here. I will check if those have dimples this evening. Cross your fingers.
|
All 4 of mine have dimples.
Not saying they always did, but I can't give you proof that they ever didn't.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Jun 15, 2019 18:36 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 9605-2 | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, axaday writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, SezaR writes:
| | I know that these types of inv. change requests are tricky. But if I know that
my inventory change request to add a variant would risk the other variant to
get removed from that set, then I have to think twice before.
|
This is a pretty special case SezaR.
|
I hope it is 
| | A brand new inventory of a 34-year-old
set doesn't happen every day. The older variant didn't just get tossed
aside. If it had been an old inventory, an alternate would surely have been
added. If I hadn't said anything, maybe they still would have, trusting
me. But when the parts in question are still in hand and I am willing to step
up and say that what I put in the inventory was incorrect, then we no longer
have any direct evidence that the older variant belongs there.
Your argument that earlier versions of this set should plausibly contain the
earlier version of the weighted brick seems very reasonable. But most of the
time Bricklink admins are not going to move on a reasonable argument. A picture
of a sealed bag is the gold standard here. Exceptions get made here and there,
but I have never had a request rejected when I turned in a picture of the sealed
bag with the part showing.
|
I see this. The best way to know about the inventory of a set is to open a sealed
copy. But I have other comments:
- I was so excited when I found out few years ago that there are websites like
peeron.com in which you can see the inventories of all sets. Then I checked the
sets I owned in my childhood and realized that certain things were not correct.
Later, I learnt about 4.5v and 12v trains and found other many more mistakes
on BL. I managed to correct all those mistakes or missing data by now but there
are still some that are not accepted because of missing good evidence however
those things are known. Few days ago, a AFOL expert from Europe contacted me
and shared what he knows. he just pojnted out certain odds that I (or with the
help of my other Lego friends) discovered concerning vintage trains. The problem
is that there is no sealed copy of some sets, or very few. There are some sealed
sets that the owner won't open just to do the inventory, and you cannot see
any part as the packaging of that set doesn't allow. (no plastic window,...)
Most of the inventories are made via instructions so they are far from being
accurate. We cannot find sealed copy of those sets as explained above however
I know, or we can find-out mistakes,... We need to put all data together (checking
timeline, checking many used copies from the first owners; of course this makes
sense if we talk about the rare parts,...) To give an example, 25%-50% of data
about this thin clip is wrong (it should come with some sets, it should get deleted
from some sets):
- Mistakes just happen, no matter what methods we use. We are seeing so many
mistakes showing up concerning recent sets (like those released after 2010) They
were inventories by trusted and experienced volunteers, by opening a sealed copy
of the set yet mistakes happen. I bet if we carefully study a part coming with
a vintage set (in the case there is lack of good evidence) and put together all
information we have, we improve the inventory of that set significantly, with
an accuracy much better than before, and as good as that of the recent sets that
are inventories by trusted/experienced people.
Well, people have different opinions and mine may change over the time as those
of others. Even though I have encountered odd things about sets like 7730-1 and
7750-1, I stand on my opinion for now. (and how I found those odd things? by
checking many many used copies. Those odd facts are so odd I cannot give a reasonable
argument to explain how that is even possible )
| |
| | (it is already
hard to find a reliable source of a vintage set, and it is so harder to find
two reliable sources of a vintage set in which we can see both variations)
|
There are variants already in that inventory because I built it from two boxes
that were not the same. So variants are still findable. I am still on the lookout
for more of that set because it has a lot of neat things in it.
But I will say this here: When I went to look the other day to see if mine had
the dimple and I only found 2 I assumed I had sold the other two. I went just
now to pursue the idea of contacting the buyer and found that I hadn't sold
them. So I checked my inventory. I still have the other two. I put them in
another location because they had some surface damage. So there is still a chance
here. I will check if those have dimples this evening. Cross your fingers.
|
I crossed my fingers, but I think I need to uncross them now
Honestly the inventory of this set is not that important and I think we can find
soon another good source in which we will find the early version of weight bricks.
Thanks for checking.
Would you mind to check the followings:
- did you two copies came with different outer boxes? See
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/vintage-lego-technic-set-lot-1034-1879917209
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/lego-dacta-technic-5v-resource-set-537091747
- were the instructions the same?
- were there any catalog,...so that we can find out the year of release? (and
maybe other dacta sets are advertised in those catalogs. They are not scanned
anywhere so I don't have access to them)
- You have added these wires:
and
and
Would you mind to check the length of their wires, if possible in cm? (you have
several copies of each and their length may vary)
For example, the length of wire of the train 7722-1 varies as I checked 4-5 copies
that I have had (all coming and original to this set).
Then we would be able to compare the length of wires coming with various sets
and make a decision. For example, the following two wire/connector assembly may
be needed to be merged:
and
| | | | In the case of this inventor change request, no evidence is given that 73090a
did never come with this set.
|
I just don't think you should waste your energy on that issue. There are
all sorts of things for which there is no evidence that they were NEVER in the
set. That set and many other sets. Bricklink doesn't want to concern themselves
with that. No evidence that is wasn't won't work. Find evidence that
it was and they will concern themselves with that.
|
This is a trick thing. I believe we don't want an inventory to come with
a part that actually never came with that set. How can we prove it? (my answer:
timeline, checking many used/sealed copies which work if the part is rare like
thin clips 4081a, not a common one like 2*2 bricks)
Thanks for your useful comment.
Bests,
Reza
|
|
|
|
|
|
Canada, British Columbia
USA, Oklahoma
Netherlands, Overijssel
