Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
It is up to a seller to decide on the price they sell sets for. Just because
there is a record of lots of $400 sales for that set doesn't mean that a
seller has to list it at or close to that price. On a set of that value, it is
worth the seller doing a couple of minutes of due diligence to check what the
set really sells for, what the current price (competition) is in their region,
and so on.
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
It is up to a seller to decide on the price they sell sets for. Just because
there is a record of lots of $400 sales for that set doesn't mean that a
seller has to list it at or close to that price. On a set of that value, it is
worth the seller doing a couple of minutes of due diligence to check what the
set really sells for, what the current price (competition) is in their region,
and so on.
That is actually my point. I know it is on the seller to set the price; that's
the benefit of the free and open market. BUT, if there are a bunch of fraudulent
purchases for items that are not really sold because it was a scam, the record
of their sale is still impacting the market. Therefore, if there are a bunch
of fraudulent purchases throughout the history for a significantly lower price
than true market, that can then drive the market of the set down from its true
value on top of skewing the averages and the data set.
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
It is up to a seller to decide on the price they sell sets for. Just because
there is a record of lots of $400 sales for that set doesn't mean that a
seller has to list it at or close to that price. On a set of that value, it is
worth the seller doing a couple of minutes of due diligence to check what the
set really sells for, what the current price (competition) is in their region,
and so on.
That is actually my point. I know it is on the seller to set the price; that's
the benefit of the free and open market. BUT, if there are a bunch of fraudulent
purchases for items that are not really sold because it was a scam, the record
of their sale is still impacting the market. Therefore, if there are a bunch
of fraudulent purchases throughout the history for a significantly lower price
than true market, that can then drive the market of the set down from its true
value on top of skewing the averages and the data set.
It won't push the prices for genuine sales down if genuine sellers list their
sets for the 'true value'. The price guide is just that, a guide.
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
It is up to a seller to decide on the price they sell sets for. Just because
there is a record of lots of $400 sales for that set doesn't mean that a
seller has to list it at or close to that price. On a set of that value, it is
worth the seller doing a couple of minutes of due diligence to check what the
set really sells for, what the current price (competition) is in their region,
and so on.
That is actually my point. I know it is on the seller to set the price; that's
the benefit of the free and open market. BUT, if there are a bunch of fraudulent
purchases for items that are not really sold because it was a scam, the record
of their sale is still impacting the market. Therefore, if there are a bunch
of fraudulent purchases throughout the history for a significantly lower price
than true market, that can then drive the market of the set down from its true
value on top of skewing the averages and the data set.
It won't push the prices for genuine sales down if genuine sellers list their
sets for the 'true value'. The price guide is just that, a guide.
It can actually do exactly that because this isn't just about sellers, it
is about sellers and buyers. If a typical buyer doesn't know any better,
their decision to buy a set can be based on fraudulent prices being listed in
the past sales of a set. It may be a temporary offset, but not having those prices
listed at all would help the overall community. Not everyone has the power to
discern true pricing from fraudulent.
The point of my post is to increase general awareness about this issue and fraud
as well as see if anything is being done about it.
[…]
It can actually do exactly that because this isn't just about sellers, it
is about sellers and buyers. If a typical buyer doesn't know any better,
their decision to buy a set can be based on fraudulent prices being listed in
the past sales of a set. It may be a temporary offset, but not having those prices
listed at all would help the overall community. Not everyone has the power to
discern true pricing from fraudulent.
The point of my post is to increase general awareness about this issue and fraud
as well as see if anything is being done about it.
For buyers’ expectations (buyers seeing low prices), there’s two possibilities:
1. There’s items for sale at that value… but only by scammers. Either the buyers
fall for it or not, it’s not the problem of the other sellers.
2. There’s no items currently for sale at that value. Buyers may decide to buy
or not. If they buy, the average price will return to the market value. If
they don’t buy, others will. If no one buys, then the prices were too high.
Anyway, cancelled transactions don’t appear in the Price Guide. Therefore it’s
up to the buyers to report the transactions and sellers.
[…]
It can actually do exactly that because this isn't just about sellers, it
is about sellers and buyers. If a typical buyer doesn't know any better,
their decision to buy a set can be based on fraudulent prices being listed in
the past sales of a set. It may be a temporary offset, but not having those prices
listed at all would help the overall community. Not everyone has the power to
discern true pricing from fraudulent.
The point of my post is to increase general awareness about this issue and fraud
as well as see if anything is being done about it.
For buyers’ expectations (buyers seeing low prices), there’s two possibilities:
1. There’s items for sale at that value… but only by scammers. Either the buyers
fall for it or not, it’s not the problem of the other sellers.
2. There’s no items currently for sale at that value. Buyers may decide to buy
or not. If they buy, the average price will return to the market value. If
they don’t buy, others will. If no one buys, then the prices were too high.
Anyway, cancelled transactions don’t appear in the Price Guide. Therefore it’s
up to the buyers to report the transactions and sellers.
[…]
It can actually do exactly that because this isn't just about sellers, it
is about sellers and buyers. If a typical buyer doesn't know any better,
their decision to buy a set can be based on fraudulent prices being listed in
the past sales of a set. It may be a temporary offset, but not having those prices
listed at all would help the overall community. Not everyone has the power to
discern true pricing from fraudulent.
The point of my post is to increase general awareness about this issue and fraud
as well as see if anything is being done about it.
For buyers’ expectations (buyers seeing low prices), there’s two possibilities:
1. There’s items for sale at that value… but only by scammers. Either the buyers
fall for it or not, it’s not the problem of the other sellers.
2. There’s no items currently for sale at that value. Buyers may decide to buy
or not. If they buy, the average price will return to the market value. If
they don’t buy, others will. If no one buys, then the prices were too high.
Anyway, cancelled transactions don’t appear in the Price Guide. Therefore it’s
up to the buyers to report the transactions and sellers.
Fraudulent transactions do appear in price guide.
CANCELLED transactions don't though. Bricklink remove cancelled transactions
if buyers that buy into scams report them. If they don't do anything, then
how is bricklink meant to know it was a scam transaction?
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
It is up to a seller to decide on the price they sell sets for. Just because
there is a record of lots of $400 sales for that set doesn't mean that a
seller has to list it at or close to that price. On a set of that value, it is
worth the seller doing a couple of minutes of due diligence to check what the
set really sells for, what the current price (competition) is in their region,
and so on.
That is actually my point. I know it is on the seller to set the price; that's
the benefit of the free and open market. BUT, if there are a bunch of fraudulent
purchases for items that are not really sold because it was a scam, the record
of their sale is still impacting the market. Therefore, if there are a bunch
of fraudulent purchases throughout the history for a significantly lower price
than true market, that can then drive the market of the set down from its true
value on top of skewing the averages and the data set.
It won't push the prices for genuine sales down if genuine sellers list their
sets for the 'true value'. The price guide is just that, a guide.
It can actually do exactly that because this isn't just about sellers, it
is about sellers and buyers. If a typical buyer doesn't know any better,
their decision to buy a set can be based on fraudulent prices being listed in
the past sales of a set. It may be a temporary offset, but not having those prices
listed at all would help the overall community. Not everyone has the power to
discern true pricing from fraudulent.
The point of my post is to increase general awareness about this issue and fraud
as well as see if anything is being done about it.
As fraudulent orders are cancelled, they are removed from the price guide
As fraudulent orders are cancelled, they are removed from the price guide
Are you sure that happens? Or do they linger for 6 months until they are purged?
Depends on the order. That’s why I said it’s up to the buyers to report the
orders (and scammers).
Mine has been reported for about a month. The seller's store has been blocked
for almost a month as well. I am hoping these do eventually drop off price guide
though because there is nothing to say any of the purchases are fraudulent or
not.
It can actually do exactly that because this isn't just about sellers, it
is about sellers and buyers. If a typical buyer doesn't know any better,
their decision to buy a set can be based on fraudulent prices being listed in
the past sales of a set. It may be a temporary offset, but not having those prices
listed at all would help the overall community. Not everyone has the power to
discern true pricing from fraudulent.
The point of my post is to increase general awareness about this issue and fraud
as well as see if anything is being done about it.
If a potential buyer chooses not to buy at the market price as they think they
should be able to get one at the lower scam price, they won't be a buyer.
And they'll probably miss out on the cheaper end of the realistic prices
as others deplete the stock. Stock still sells to the better educated buyers.
It will only skew the guide for 6 months, until it's no longer part of the
6-month sales average.
Another way to avoid this issue is to not buy sets that are clearly a scam. There's
a willful blindness or maybe just greed among buyers that rewards these scam
sellers. Look at all of the new sets that sold for US$320 just this month. There's
simply no reason for a seller to dump this set at such a low price because they'd
would sell just as many just as fast for $50 or $100 more each, and probably
even more than that if the sales record wasn't so artificially low.
It's a super hot set, the number of new sets "sold" in the past 6-months
is around 50% higher than the amount currently available. The part-out value
is around US$900. I'd bet that most of the sales over the past 6 months were
scammers.
I don't know that BL removes scam sales from the sold record but they should.
Anyone else want to confess to falling for the "too good to be true"
deal on this or any other purchase on BL? And please no "I knew PP would
protect me" nonsense because constantly relying on PP to protect you from
your own carelessness will ultimately lead to higher fees to cover that cost.
In Price Guide, HanVader32 writes:
In General, yorbrick writes:
In General, HanVader32 writes:
In General, yorbrick writes:
In General, HanVader32 writes:
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
It is up to a seller to decide on the price they sell sets for. Just because
there is a record of lots of $400 sales for that set doesn't mean that a
seller has to list it at or close to that price. On a set of that value, it is
worth the seller doing a couple of minutes of due diligence to check what the
set really sells for, what the current price (competition) is in their region,
and so on.
That is actually my point. I know it is on the seller to set the price; that's
the benefit of the free and open market. BUT, if there are a bunch of fraudulent
purchases for items that are not really sold because it was a scam, the record
of their sale is still impacting the market. Therefore, if there are a bunch
of fraudulent purchases throughout the history for a significantly lower price
than true market, that can then drive the market of the set down from its true
value on top of skewing the averages and the data set.
It won't push the prices for genuine sales down if genuine sellers list their
sets for the 'true value'. The price guide is just that, a guide.
It can actually do exactly that because this isn't just about sellers, it
is about sellers and buyers. If a typical buyer doesn't know any better,
their decision to buy a set can be based on fraudulent prices being listed in
the past sales of a set. It may be a temporary offset, but not having those prices
listed at all would help the overall community. Not everyone has the power to
discern true pricing from fraudulent.
The point of my post is to increase general awareness about this issue and fraud
as well as see if anything is being done about it.
[…]
And please no "I knew PP would
protect me" nonsense because constantly relying on PP to protect you from
your own carelessness will ultimately lead to higher fees to cover that cost.
Unfortunately, potential future small changes don’t deter stupid behaviour—pfft,
what am I saying? even guaranteed future big problems don’t.
In other words: “I don’t care, I got my lottery ticket! I already called Ferrari
for a test-drive!”
[…]
And please no "I knew PP would
protect me" nonsense because constantly relying on PP to protect you from
your own carelessness will ultimately lead to higher fees to cover that cost.
Unfortunately, potential future small changes don’t deter stupid behaviour—pfft,
what am I saying? even guaranteed future big problems don’t.
In other words: “I don’t care, I got my lottery ticket! I already called Ferrari
for a test-drive!”
This is Ferrero carz. Please send deposit to me by bank transfer to konfirm
test drivings at your conveniences.
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
Out of curiosity do remember how many feedbacks the seller had and when he opened
his store? Just wondering if he opened it recently and if so it sure emphasizes
that there could \ should be more done to prevent new stores from listing allot
of expensive sets right after being approved to sell. Just looking at your example
of the UCS Venator, there have been 5 sold in the first 4 days of this month
for just $320.00.
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
Out of curiosity do remember how many feedbacks the seller had and when he opened
his store? Just wondering if he opened it recently and if so it sure emphasizes
that there could \ should be more done to prevent new stores from listing allot
of expensive sets right after being approved to sell. Just looking at your example
of the UCS Venator, there have been 5 sold in the first 4 days of this month
for just $320.00.
Jim
It was a fairly new seller with 3 feedback when I purchased my "set".
They had two buyer feedback and one seller feedback. I have seen the same thing
for the Venator as well as some other UCS sets. Harder to tell for less expensive
sets and I would suspect le4ss prevalent because these scammers want to cash
in as much as they can before being caught.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?It was a fairly new seller with 3 feedback when I purchased my "set". They had two buyer feedback and one seller feedback. I have seen the same thing for the Venator as well as some other UCS sets. Harder to tell for less expensive sets and I would suspect le4ss prevalent because these scammers want to cash in as much as they can before being caught.
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
I get your point but IME the price guide will correct pretty fast. If the real
price of a set is $400 for example, once the scammer is taken out, the only sets
left for sale should be $400 and up. One would only have to cross check ebay
for example to see $400 is the real price and not what's in the price guide.
Low sale prices happen on ALL sets, ALL THE TIME. I just see it and go "cool
someone got a deal". I don't think the average person stares at the price
guide obsessing over $50. I'd wage most lego purchases are based more on
that buyers "extra" money that month
Unfortunately I think the real solution is for buyers to stop falling for obvious
scams.
I recall someone asking about this specific $400 Venator set in a forum and it
screamed scam store all over it. Store was brand new. Store was selling a set
that is still available at Lego’s site (at $650) for $400. The sale price was
hundreds less than the next closest price. The seller had something like 20 sales
at the time I checked, but only 1 selling feedback (from another brand new account).
There were roughly 20 other sales at exactly $400 for the same set that month.
The only other items the seller had listed were very pricey sets listed at hundreds
of dollars less than the next closest listings (black pearl being one if I recall).
Buyers need to take some responsibility and stop trying to get too good to be
true deals. I hope PayPal made it at least a bit frustrating to get your money
back in order to help discourage this type of behavior from buyers. You know
that one way or the other, buyers and sellers are paying for these scams through
higher fees, etc. PayPal isn’t just giving you your money back out of kindness.
In Price Guide, HanVader32 writes:
Hi all!
I have only been selling with Bricklink for a few months, but using the resources
for a few years. Lately it seems scammer accounts are on the rise, and with it,
phony sales. It seems these sales are skewing and diluting the sale prices of
otherwise valuable sets in the pricing history. Am I crazy or is it becoming
more of an issue? Is it just me noticing this now because I have started selling
and I am more intimately involved with the economy of Lego on BL?
I have a recent example, where I had an alert set up on the UCS Venator to notify
me of any new listing under $550. I received a notification that took me to a
store selling the Venator for $400. I purchased it and noticed there were many
sets available. Come to find it was a scam. (Yes I know, shame on me, I should
know better) I have since recovered my money and the sellers store has been locked
down. But something I have noticed is they sold MANY of these phony sets at 400.
In turn, this has totally skewed the sales history and is in turn manufacturing
a bogus value for the set. I have since noticed this trend with MANY high dollar
sets.
Since I now see this, I can account for it in my own research, but a larger question
remains…what is BL doing about it and what have they done in the past?
USA, Wisconsin
United Kingdom, England
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Canada, Ontario
