There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
*
973pb0527c01 (Inv) Torso Imperial Soldier Uniform Jacket with Blue and Gold Trim over White Shirt with Buttons, Crossbelts with Oval Clasp, Dark Brown Ammo Pouch on Back Pattern (Redcoat) / Red Arms / Yellow Hands Parts: Minifigure, Torso Assembly, Decor.
*
973pb0527c02 (Inv) Torso Imperial Soldier Uniform Jacket with Blue and Gold Trim over White Shirt with Buttons, Crossbelts with Oval Clasp, Dark Brown Ammo Pouch on Back Pattern (Redcoat) / Red Arms / Light Nougat Hands Parts: Minifigure, Torso Assembly, Decor.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
What makes you think that these torsos are fake? Could you post some comparison
photos of the presumed fakes alongside verified real ones? I am not sure if fakes
have shown up with the LEGO logo on the top of the neck, but pictures would allow
the differences between the torsos to be evaluated.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
I have yet to see any evidence for that. That particular torso was released when
Lego was contracting a factory in China to make certain minifigures, before Lego
opened and owned their own factory there. The contracted factory often had issues
with color matching and plastic translucency. But it was mostly “extended line”
figures coming from that factory, or anything prepackaged — think rock monsters,
Toy Story heads, keychains, magnets. So you have Imperial torsos from sets that
looked fine, and the same torso from a BAM station that looked much worse quality
— but was still Lego. A good tell for these early Chinese Lego figures is they
were missing the inked square on the neck used to align the torso when printing.
We are considering two explanations:
- these are genuine red Lego torsos with counterfeit printing (which makes sense
but why go through the effort of counterfeiting quite common plain red torsos?)
- these are counterfeit Lego torsos (with counterfeit printing)
I doubt they are counterfeit torsos. They are probably just from this set
*
852543 (Inv) Magnet Set, Minifigures Pirates II (3) - Captain Brickbeard, Pirate, Imperial Soldier II - with 2 x 4 Brick Bases blister pack Gear: Magnet: Pirates: Pirates II
During this time when they were still removable there were some serious quality
issues with the parts, particularly red ones.
I have some royal guards from the same era from magnet sets and the red is very
off, almost slightly translucent.
*
852552 (Inv) Magnet Set, Minifigures SW (3) - Boba Fett, Leia, Royal Guard - with 2 x 4 Brick Bases blister pack Gear: Magnet: Star Wars
We are considering two explanations:
- these are genuine red Lego torsos with counterfeit printing (which makes sense
but why go through the effort of counterfeiting quite common plain red torsos?)
- these are counterfeit Lego torsos (with counterfeit printing)
I doubt they are counterfeit torsos. They are probably just from this set
*
852543 (Inv) Magnet Set, Minifigures Pirates II (3) - Captain Brickbeard, Pirate, Imperial Soldier II - with 2 x 4 Brick Bases blister pack Gear: Magnet: Pirates: Pirates II
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
We received a shipment of used 973pb0527c01/2 torsos. We have dozens of these
in our personal collection and dozens of these in the yellow hands variant in
our store inventory (new) so we are very familiar with this ~ decade-old torso.
We have encountered counterfeit minifigure parts in bulk used lots and the occasional
BrickLink order but the items we classified as counterfeit lacked a Lego marking
(such as a Lego marking on the neck stud of a torso).
Several of the issue (used) 973pb0527c01/2 torsos we recently received have
a Lego marking on the top of the neck stud but...
- these lack the black band on the neck stud (this is not the result of wear
- there is no indication that any material was ever applied to the neck stud)
- these have uniform printing defects (the gold print on the front is not metallic
and this is not the result of wear as the printing is intact; the knapsack on
the back of the torso is very dark and not the usual dark brown, etc.)
- the red ABS torso is off colour and the torso shows no sign of discoluration
from UV exposure (this uniformly applies to the front, back, and both sides of
the torsos)
We can come up with potential explanations for the above three issues but there
is one remaining issue that we cannot make sense of:
- the finish of the neck studs is unusual and inconsistent with the dozens of
new and used versions of this torso in our personal collection and store inventory.
The dimensions are very marginally off when compared with parts that we are ~certain
of being original Lego (i.e., parts from sealed sets that we opened/items from
a BAM station). The top of the neck studs are rounded and not smooth/flat and
the ribs are inconsistent with other Lego torsos from the same timeframe. It
looks like someone copied the Lego torso mold but could not match the tolerances
of the genuine Lego injection molding process (or there was a very major problem
at one of the Lego factories when this torso was in production).
We are considering two explanations:
- these are genuine red Lego torsos with counterfeit printing (which makes sense
but why go through the effort of counterfeiting quite common plain red torsos?)
- these are counterfeit Lego torsos (with counterfeit printing)
We were not active Lego collectors back when this torso was introduced in sets
(~2009-2011) and are not up to speed on known production issues concerning the
finish of Lego torsos produced at the time and have not encountered counterfeits
that feature a Lego marking on the top of the neck stud. Any guidance will be
greatly appreciated.
Polaris
Based on the description and pictures, these seem like legit LEGO parts from
the old Chinese factory; the lack of a neck mark and the translucence of the
plastic are giveaways in this regard.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue?
No, nobody can. Contact LEGO instead.
There have been rumours, just a couple of weeks ago, but no outcome.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Go to the LEGO website and open a support ticket with the Customer Service on
their contact page. Only The LEGO Group could tell you if these are genuine or
not.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Go to the LEGO website and open a support ticket with the Customer Service on
their contact page. Only The LEGO Group could tell you if these are genuine or
not.
But then you’d have to hope that the employee is trained on it or talks to someone
who is otherwise at the slightest difference they may just say flat out it’s
fake
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Go to the LEGO website and open a support ticket with the Customer Service on
their contact page. Only The LEGO Group could tell you if these are genuine or
not.
But then you’d have to hope that the employee is trained on it or talks to someone
who is otherwise at the slightest difference they may just say flat out it’s
fake
I have both talked to and written to LEGO Customer Service in the past, and they
were highly professional and knowledgeable people. What makes you think you'd
get an untrained person when contacting them? TLG don't "hope", they
seemed, at least in the past, to have very strict standards of professional service
in both written and spoken replies.
Even the lady I spoke to at the Australian LEGO Customer Service number was highly
professional and knew what I was asking about. I believe TLG train their CSR's
to high standards.
They are knowledgeable about current products. But ask them something from 10
years ago and the answers may vary. Not so bad by email where they have time
to look things up, but on the phone you can tell if they haven't worked there
long.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Go to the LEGO website and open a support ticket with the Customer Service on
their contact page. Only The LEGO Group could tell you if these are genuine or
not.
But then you’d have to hope that the employee is trained on it or talks to someone
who is otherwise at the slightest difference they may just say flat out it’s
fake
I have both talked to and written to LEGO Customer Service in the past, and they
were highly professional and knowledgeable people. What makes you think you'd
get an untrained person when contacting them? TLG don't "hope", they
seemed, at least in the past, to have very strict standards of professional service
in both written and spoken replies.
Even the lady I spoke to at the Australian LEGO Customer Service number was highly
professional and knew what I was asking about. I believe TLG train their CSR's
to high standards.
Cheers ...
ghyde
Not just an “untrained” employee but and employee who’s specificity knowledgeable
about every mold lego makes for minifigure parts as otherwise they would know
just about as much as you or me on wether it’s real or not and if they say it’s
real or fake could cause issues if they are unspecialized and just “guessing”.
It would have to be someone who is very knowledgeable on that 1 specialized topic
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Additionally, please take a photo of the suspect torsos from the top down, focused
on the LEGO trademark that should be on the top of the stud. Genuine LEGO torsos
almost always have the LEGO trademark on that stud in italics, some fakes that
have been found have the logo in capitals but they are not in italics.
I'm not certain if the Chinese factory had been using italics on their torso
studs or not, but it may help in identifying them properly.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Additionally, please take a photo of the suspect torsos from the top down, focused
on the LEGO trademark that should be on the top of the stud. Genuine LEGO torsos
almost always have the LEGO trademark on that stud in italics, some fakes that
have been found have the logo in capitals but they are not in italics.
+1!
I'm not certain if the Chinese factory had been using italics on their torso studs or not, but it may help in identifying them properly.
I just grabbed some Chinese plastic torsos and compared them to normal ones;
the logos are the same (italicised).
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Additionally, please take a photo of the suspect torsos from the top down, focused
on the LEGO trademark that should be on the top of the stud. Genuine LEGO torsos
almost always have the LEGO trademark on that stud in italics, some fakes that
have been found have the logo in capitals but they are not in italics.
+1!
I'm not certain if the Chinese factory had been using italics on their torso studs or not, but it may help in identifying them properly.
I just grabbed some Chinese plastic torsos and compared them to normal ones;
the logos are the same (italicised).
Cheers ...
ghyde
One does wonder, though, if a few early releases slipped through, before TLG
corrected the problem.
They discovered the problem with the Chinese factory, is it known at all whether
there were torsos made from it before TLG visited them and replaced the incorrect
molds?
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
Additionally, please take a photo of the suspect torsos from the top down, focused
on the LEGO trademark that should be on the top of the stud. Genuine LEGO torsos
almost always have the LEGO trademark on that stud in italics, some fakes that
have been found have the logo in capitals but they are not in italics.
+1!
I'm not certain if the Chinese factory had been using italics on their torso studs or not, but it may help in identifying them properly.
I just grabbed some Chinese plastic torsos and compared them to normal ones;
the logos are the same (italicised).
Cheers ...
ghyde
One does wonder, though, if a few early releases slipped through, before TLG
corrected the problem.
They discovered the problem with the Chinese factory, is it known at all whether
there were torsos made from it before TLG visited them and replaced the incorrect
molds?
Cheers ...
ghyde
The problems were with the transparency and texture/quality of the plastic, as
well as colour-inconsistency when compared to normal parts; to my knowledge there
was never an issue with the logos.
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
We are grateful for everyone's assistance. We removed the arms from these
torsos and can confirm there are Lego markings in the interior cavity and we
are now of the view that these are lower production quality items (along the
lines of what some of you associated with items outsourced to factories in China
a decade or so ago).
It would be great if BrickLink published some posts about such issues - we recall
that there is some material in the colour guide re changes to colours (pearl
gold, flat silver, pearl light grey, etc.). The responses to our post indicate
that some BrickLink members have a lot of knowledge about such issues, but this
knowledge does not appear to be recorded. Invariably, some other buyers/sellers
will run into this and similar issues and there is no guarantee that members
persons with knowledge of these issues will still be active BrickLink members.
Admins: we are conflicted about whether we should delete our posts (or if they
should be deleted by moderators). We are concerned that prospective BrickLink
users will hear of such posts (likely without reading our followup) and hesitate
to place orders/trust the BrickLink marketplace. At the same time deleting such
posts doesn't create the best image. An "official" page created by
the admins highlighting such (known) issues - or expanded comments in the catalog
for applicable items - would seem to be a better way forward. With BrickLink
owned by The Lego Group, official commentary by Lego on known changes in colour
chemistry, for example, may increase trust in the BrickLink marketplace (such
as when a buyer receives an older flat silver or pearl hold part).
There is a longer version of this post dealing with the specifics of potentially
counterfeit items we recently received (sadly from a BrickLink seller) but the
following question may suffice: can anyone confirm if counterfeit (printed) torsos
*with* Lego markings on the top of the neck stud are a known issue? Please
note that we are not referring to counterfeit printing on an otherwise genuine
plain Lego torso and that the item in question is the 973pb0527c01/973pb0527c02
torso.
Polaris
We are grateful for everyone's assistance. We removed the arms from these
torsos and can confirm there are Lego markings in the interior cavity and we
are now of the view that these are lower production quality items (along the
lines of what some of you associated with items outsourced to factories in China
a decade or so ago).
It would be great if BrickLink published some posts about such issues - we recall
that there is some material in the colour guide re changes to colours (pearl
gold, flat silver, pearl light grey, etc.). The responses to our post indicate
that some BrickLink members have a lot of knowledge about such issues, but this
knowledge does not appear to be recorded. Invariably, some other buyers/sellers
will run into this and similar issues and there is no guarantee that members
persons with knowledge of these issues will still be active BrickLink members.
Admins: we are conflicted about whether we should delete our posts (or if they
should be deleted by moderators). We are concerned that prospective BrickLink
users will hear of such posts (likely without reading our followup) and hesitate
to place orders/trust the BrickLink marketplace. At the same time deleting such
posts doesn't create the best image. An "official" page created by
the admins highlighting such (known) issues - or expanded comments in the catalog
for applicable items - would seem to be a better way forward. With BrickLink
owned by The Lego Group, official commentary by Lego on known changes in colour
chemistry, for example, may increase trust in the BrickLink marketplace (such
as when a buyer receives an older flat silver or pearl hold part).
Polaris
There is no need to cancel any posts. This thread will provide users who have
similar questions in the future with reliable information.
Canada, Ontario
USA, Virginia
)
)
)
United Kingdom, England
Australia, Queensland
