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| | | Author: | enig  | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 06:17 | | Subject: | Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 279 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
This must have been raised a million times before. Why is there such a strong
unwillingness to address this?
---------------------------------------
If the rule change is made, there should also be an exemption for listings with
IDs that precede the date of the rule change. Plus perhaps a greyed-out small
text added to ALL 'mew' minifig listings telling the buyer to familiarize
themselves with the rules.
Being a bit acid on this topic is, I am afraid, becoming mandatory. You know
why.
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| | | | | Author: | BrickDeals | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 06:32 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
This must have been raised a million times before. Why is there such a strong
unwillingness to address this?
---------------------------------------
If the rule change is made, there should also be an exemption for listings with
IDs that precede the date of the rule change. Plus perhaps a greyed-out small
text added to ALL 'mew' minifig listings telling the buyer to familiarize
themselves with the rules.
Being a bit acid on this topic is, I am afraid, becoming mandatory. You know
why.
|
By your logic, you should list all your hands and arms as used, because they
aren't in the original form.
If you are that concerned, contact the seller before ordering.
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| | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 06:39 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, BrickDeals writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
This must have been raised a million times before. Why is there such a strong
unwillingness to address this?
---------------------------------------
If the rule change is made, there should also be an exemption for listings with
IDs that precede the date of the rule change. Plus perhaps a greyed-out small
text added to ALL 'mew' minifig listings telling the buyer to familiarize
themselves with the rules.
Being a bit acid on this topic is, I am afraid, becoming mandatory. You know
why.
|
By your logic, you should list all your hands and arms as used, because they
aren't in the original form.
|
It's not my logic that needs to be addressed? 
| | If you are that concerned, contact the seller before ordering.
|
Going back and forth with the seller about how they interpret the rules should
a) not be necessary and b) is not viable at a larger scale
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 07:03 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | By your logic, you should list all your hands and arms as used, because they
aren't in the original form.
|
That doesn't follow logically, as minifigures assembled by lego can be taken
apart and the parts sold as new. So logically parts such as torso assemblies
that are assembled by lego could also be taken apart and sold as new. Hence arms
and hands from new torso assemblies can be sold as new.
| | If you are that concerned, contact the seller before ordering.
|
Indeed, that is one solution and also check the seller's terms to see if
they note it. Whenever these posts come up in the forums you can make a note
of sellers that say they assemble them. Similarly, if a seller sends assembled
figures then a buyer can make a note. Then all these stores can be put on the
least favourites list if it is important to the buyer.
It is especially important for minifigures with capes or stickers.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 08:09 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | | | By your logic, you should list all your hands and arms as used, because they
aren't in the original form.
|
That doesn't follow logically, as minifigures assembled by lego can be taken
apart and the parts sold as new. So logically parts such as torso assemblies
that are assembled by lego could also be taken apart and sold as new. Hence arms
and hands from new torso assemblies can be sold as new.
|
Thank you. I am starting to not have enough of the mental patience left in me
to keep explaining things at this level.
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| | If you are that concerned, contact the seller before ordering.
|
Indeed, that is one solution and also check the seller's terms to see if
they note it. Whenever these posts come up in the forums you can make a note
of sellers that say they assemble them. Similarly, if a seller sends assembled
figures then a buyer can make a note. Then all these stores can be put on the
least favourites list if it is important to the buyer.
It is especially important for minifigures with capes or stickers.
|
Unfortunately this does not scale well. For someone looking to buy just a few
small things every now and then - okay that might work. But it is still time
consuming and should not be necessary..
However for buyers who may have to place dozen of orders all at once - it is
not viable having to message a number of sellers and wait for their replies.
I might be working on something that is time sensitive, and I may need to choose
the stores depending on several factors.
Let's have an example that is relevant to the topic. Say I am working on
a 250 lot, 20k parts project. Optimizing the orders at this scale is already
tricky to begin with. Lets say I need x25 of a part that not many stores have.
Seller A has the part at $0.5 a piece but the only shipping option is at $30.
Total comes to $42.5 . Seller B has the same part at $1 a piece, has $10 shipping
but also has $50 minimum. Total comes to $35 so I end up below the minimum.
I have another 249 lots to take care of and to optimize the whole thing as best
as I can. I need to know right away if, for example, I can include some NEW minifigs
from the seller B in order to reach the minimum. I may have some parts/accessories
that I need from those minifigs that may be either in the same or another wish-list,
I may also want to simply buy the minifigs to part-out for profit in order to
offset the higher total cost of the order etc etc.
This really becomes tricky. Imagine having to place 30+ orders but having to
wait who knows how long before even knowing if I can buy from 10+ shops that
I have to message. Being able to include/not include one or two shops may change
the whole thing, as then you may need to reshuffle a whole bunch of other carts.
It is very time consuming. Not event to mention that while I will be waiting
for replies some of the lots in other stores might get bought-out.. I hope you
see the pace at which the whole thing gets more and more complicated really quickly.
This really should not be necessary.
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| | | | | Author: | jgrossman1025 | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 08:19 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| I don't understand why this is an issue. If you are this picky about condition
message the seller and ask. It's your money and your item you are purchasing
but i am pretty sure more than half of people wouldn't care if they got a
"new figure" assembled by the seller. In my opinion this would still be "New"
as it was never used or played with. Maybe my opinion is unpopular but thats
my 2 cents.
Thanks, Noah
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 10:54 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, jgrossman1025 writes:
| | I don't understand why this is an issue. If you are this picky about condition
message the seller and ask. It's your money and your item you are purchasing
but i am pretty sure more than half of people wouldn't care if they got a
"new figure" assembled by the seller. In my opinion this would still be "New"
as it was never used or played with. Maybe my opinion is unpopular but thats
my 2 cents.
Thanks, Noah
|
One point is if you want to sell the parts. New parts sell better (faster and
higher price) than used parts. If you disassemble a new figure that has been
assembled, the parts are used. So either you lie and say they are new or you
take a hit compared to if the seller had not assembled them.
You might want to sell them as parts because they were added as filler to get
to a price threshold or if you want say the head or the torso but not the other
parts.
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| | | | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:47 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| An oblique reply to your scenario, and a reason why pre-assembly may be in the
best interest of all parties ….
About a year back, I parted out a 70111-1. In it is the Furty minifig. When I
attempted to assemble the Furty, the torso snapped and cracked. That was during
the period in which some colors have been described as brittle. While
that was unusual, it did prevent a problem from being sold, and then having to
be remedied. All the subsidiary bits were then listed and sold on their own.
The torso was round filed.
Nita Rae
In Suggestions, jgrossman1025 writes:
| | I don't understand why this is an issue. If you are this picky about condition
message the seller and ask. It's your money and your item you are purchasing
but i am pretty sure more than half of people wouldn't care if they got a
"new figure" assembled by the seller. In my opinion this would still be "New"
as it was never used or played with. Maybe my opinion is unpopular but thats
my 2 cents.
Thanks, Noah
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:55 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | An oblique reply to your scenario, and a reason why pre-assembly may be in the
best interest of all parties ….
About a year back, I parted out a 70111-1. In it is the Furty minifig. When I
attempted to assemble the Furty, the torso snapped and cracked. That was during
the period in which some colors have been described as brittle. While
that was unusual, it did prevent a problem from being sold, and then having to
be remedied. All the subsidiary bits were then listed and sold on their own.
The torso was round filed.
Nita Rae
|
So, assembling dozens? hundreds? thousands? of minifigures in 22 years helped
you not sell ONE bad torso?
And the exact same reason could serve for other parts: I assembled all your (Blue,
Reddish Brown…) bricks because I wanted to see if they would break.
But you don’t assemble other parts than minifig parts, do you? 
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyipp | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 16:24 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | An oblique reply to your scenario, and a reason why pre-assembly may be in the
best interest of all parties ….
About a year back, I parted out a 70111-1. In it is the Furty minifig. When I
attempted to assemble the Furty, the torso snapped and cracked. That was during
the period in which some colors have been described as brittle. While
that was unusual, it did prevent a problem from being sold, and then having to
be remedied. All the subsidiary bits were then listed and sold on their own.
The torso was round filed.
Nita Rae
|
So, assembling dozens? hundreds? thousands? of minifigures in 22 years helped
you not sell ONE bad torso?
And the exact same reason could serve for other parts: I assembled all your (Blue,
Reddish Brown…) bricks because I wanted to see if they would break.
But you don’t assemble other parts than minifig parts, do you?
|
I am still yet to hear a good reason to assemble new figures. I think my favorite
is to stop the parts from rubbing together, even though they were removed from
a plastic bag filled with other parts.
I have always had the mindset that no one ever cares if they get an unassembled
figure, but if 1 in 1000 cares it's assembled why even take that chance?
Also it doesn't bother me if the seller actually notes that the figure is
assembled because at least then it is impossible to miss.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:22 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, cosmicray writes:
| | An oblique reply to your scenario, and a reason why pre-assembly may be in the
best interest of all parties ….
About a year back, I parted out a 70111-1. In it is the Furty minifig. When I
attempted to assemble the Furty, the torso snapped and cracked. That was during
the period in which some colors have been described as brittle. While
that was unusual, it did prevent a problem from being sold, and then having to
be remedied. All the subsidiary bits were then listed and sold on their own.
The torso was round filed.
|
The opposite is also true in some cases. If you assemble one like this
then the parts might be perfect at the time of assembly but those cylinders can
lead to cracking in the backs of the legs if displayed/stored like that.
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| | | | | Author: | Shiny_Stuff | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 08:43 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
|
There are several reasons why sellers do assemble their minifigs.
One such reason is that many BL sellers also sell via other venues or sales channels
such as brick-and-mortar retail and at in-person events such as LUG events and
Lego fan conventions. In those cases, assembled minifigs are pretty much required.
When leftover stock is listed on BL, the figs are assembled (and typically individually
packaged).
Another reason is that it was simply standard practice for many years for sellers
to assemble minifigs to ensure that buyers received all of the correct pieces.
The greater prevalence of figs with cloth accessories such as capes has made
this practice less desirable as buyers prefer to have the cloth accessories in
the factory new condition.
It is an old rule to allow for assembled minifigs to be sold as NEW.
I like the rule and think it should remain unchanged.
PHOTO: A wall of assembled minifigs for sale in a retail shop (Sir Troys Toy
Kingdom)
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 11:05 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | There are several reasons why sellers do assemble their minifigs.
One such reason is that many BL sellers also sell via other venues or sales channels
such as brick-and-mortar retail and at in-person events such as LUG events and
Lego fan conventions. In those cases, assembled minifigs are pretty much required.
When leftover stock is listed on BL, the figs are assembled (and typically individually
packaged).
Another reason is that it was simply standard practice for many years for sellers
to assemble minifigs to ensure that buyers received all of the correct pieces.
The greater prevalence of figs with cloth accessories such as capes has made
this practice less desirable as buyers prefer to have the cloth accessories in
the factory new condition.
It is an old rule to allow for assembled minifigs to be sold as NEW.
I like the rule and think it should remain unchanged.
PHOTO: A wall of assembled minifigs for sale in a retail shop (Sir Troys Toy
Kingdom)
|
There are still ways around that for buyers wanting to know. The seller can say
they are already assembled in the description of each listing, or they can put
in their terms that they choose to assemble minifigures before packing them.
Then buyers can avoid them if they do their homework. If sellers don't say
either way, I tend to assume they assemble them and so favour a seller that does
indicate they don't build them first unless the prices are hugely different.
I've even received CMF sold as new that turned out were built and standing
on the tile, holding the accessories. That is really not on, as it is not an
assembled minifigure (according to BL rules), but an assembled set.
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| | | | | Author: | rab1234 | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 09:11 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| One of the bigger problems in my mind is how crooked sellers use this rule to
sell used figures as if they're new and jack up the prices. This really
hurts Bricklink's platform as a whole with just a couple of untrustworthy
sellers ruining the reputation.
In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
This must have been raised a million times before. Why is there such a strong
unwillingness to address this?
---------------------------------------
If the rule change is made, there should also be an exemption for listings with
IDs that precede the date of the rule change. Plus perhaps a greyed-out small
text added to ALL 'mew' minifig listings telling the buyer to familiarize
themselves with the rules.
Being a bit acid on this topic is, I am afraid, becoming mandatory. You know
why.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | jgrossman1025 | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 12:56 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, rab1234 writes:
| | One of the bigger problems in my mind is how crooked sellers use this rule to
sell used figures as if they're new and jack up the prices. This really
hurts Bricklink's platform as a whole with just a couple of untrustworthy
sellers ruining the reputation.
|
I agree with this point it is important to keep people from saying used are new.
But i personally don't feel like assembling them makes them used. Crooked
sellers selling used as new are a problem i definitely agree. I just don't
think an assembled minifigure is the same thing. My opinion could be wrong though.
Thanks, Noah
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | rab1234 | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 22:23 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Right... but allowing new to be sold in assembled form does allow a crooked seller
to say that a generally good condition used figure is actually new and that the
neck markings or arm/leg wear are from assembling the new parts.
In Suggestions, jgrossman1025 writes:
| | In Suggestions, rab1234 writes:
| | One of the bigger problems in my mind is how crooked sellers use this rule to
sell used figures as if they're new and jack up the prices. This really
hurts Bricklink's platform as a whole with just a couple of untrustworthy
sellers ruining the reputation.
|
I agree with this point it is important to keep people from saying used are new.
But i personally don't feel like assembling them makes them used. Crooked
sellers selling used as new are a problem i definitely agree. I just don't
think an assembled minifigure is the same thing. My opinion could be wrong though.
Thanks, Noah
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 03:16 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, jgrossman1025 writes:
| | In Suggestions, rab1234 writes:
| | One of the bigger problems in my mind is how crooked sellers use this rule to
sell used figures as if they're new and jack up the prices. This really
hurts Bricklink's platform as a whole with just a couple of untrustworthy
sellers ruining the reputation.
|
I agree with this point it is important to keep people from saying used are new.
But i personally don't feel like assembling them makes them used. Crooked
sellers selling used as new are a problem i definitely agree. I just don't
think an assembled minifigure is the same thing. My opinion could be wrong though.
|
There is also the issue of what is done with them between assembling them and
selling them. If a seller has them on a hanging rail in a store, are they used?
If a seller has them in a drawer in bags, are they used? If a seller has them
in a drawer unbagged, are they used? If a seller has them unbagged and aligned
on a shelf for easy picking, are they used? If a seller has one of each of them
on a display stand, are they used? And if that one was there for a decade, does
that make it used?
You could say it is down to the sellers intention. If they assemble with the
intention of selling it, does that make it OK? Is a figure assembled and left
on a shelf for a year any different to a figure that a collector assembled then
decided after a day to sell?
Different people will have a different threshold for what is used especially
concerning ones that are from a personal collection and displayed only. If they
are assembled and not actually played with but looked at on a shelf, are they
any different to ones assembled and stored on a shelf or rack for sale. And bricklink
has the same difficulty, with admins referring to collections of minifigs that
have been assembled and displayed (and even say that in the comments) as "problematic"
but still allow them to be sold as new.
My personal threshold is that if I assemble something that comes in parts and
the reason it comes in parts is to assemble it, then I have used it. There is
then no ambiguity. Of course there is still the issue of honesty - if a collector
assembles a figure, displays it for some time then takes it apart and it looks
as good as new so sells it as new - but that is a different issue.
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 11:22 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | Yes - assembling for selling New shouldn't be allowed. |
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:06 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| | Yes - assembling for selling New shouldn't be allowed.
|
I would add:
1) The it's to be sure argument is false; you can't be sure of
a 3 or 5 parts order without assembling them all? I wish you don't have a
300 lots order...
2) The it's for the parts not to be damaged in transit argument, same
BS. What about other parts, like Bricks/Plates/Dishes or fragile Panels/Windows?
I guess people don't assemble them! So why would anyone assemble only Minifigures?
3) It does take actual extra Seller time.
This last point shows us that, as nobody like extra work, the only reason a seller
would do this... is simply because it's their pleasure to do this.
Much more, it deprives the buyer of this pleasure.
IMO.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:09 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
This last point shows us that, as nobody like extra work, the only reason a seller
would do this... is simply because it's their pleasure to do this.
|
Shhh! First rule of the sellers club: don’t confess you play with the parts
you sell!
| | Much more, it deprives the buyer of this pleasure.
IMO.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:16 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 05:00 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
Be careful what you think/write/say nowadays! 
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 05:34 | | Subject: | Re: (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
Be careful what you think/write/say nowadays!
|
Sylvain cancelled his message himself.
People do that rather often, mainly because you can’t edit messages.
One big clue is when they post another message right away
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 06:59 | | Subject: | Re: (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
Be careful what you think/write/say nowadays!
|
Sylvain cancelled his message himself.
People do that rather often, mainly because you can’t edit messages.
One big clue is when they post another message right away
|
Yeah.. that was rather obvious.
I was taking a jab at the cancel culture.. I guess I did not make that
obvious enough 
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 07:26 | | Subject: | Re: (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | […]
| | People do that rather often, mainly because you can’t edit messages.
One big clue is when they post another message right away
|
Yeah.. that was rather obvious.
I was taking a jab at the cancel culture.. I guess I did not make that
obvious enough
|
I indeed wasn’t sure so I preferred to take it literally because there’s evidence
some people take such things (very) literally.
It kills the fun but fights misunderstandings… I hope.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 07:56 | | Subject: | Re: (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | […]
| | People do that rather often, mainly because you can’t edit messages.
One big clue is when they post another message right away
|
Yeah.. that was rather obvious.
I was taking a jab at the cancel culture.. I guess I did not make that
obvious enough
|
I indeed wasn’t sure so I preferred to take it literally because there’s evidence
some people take such things (very) literally.
It kills the fun but fights misunderstandings… I hope.
|
Well at least this made us both look stupid so I guess we can take it
as a win/win!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 11:10 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 11:27 | | Subject: | Re: (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
Be careful what you think/write/say nowadays!
|
I have been censored by Sylvain!
And I said this again in another message, and it was cancelled again!
It's difficult to post when you censor yourself
Sylvain
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:16 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
This last point shows us that, as nobody like extra work, the only reason a seller
would do this... is simply because it's their pleasure to do this.
|
Shhh! First rule of the sellers club: don’t confess you play with the parts
you sell!
|
Yeah... but what, how would you know about the Sellers Club!?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 14:22 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Suggestions, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
This last point shows us that, as nobody like extra work, the only reason a seller
would do this... is simply because it's their pleasure to do this.
|
Shhh! First rule of the sellers club: don’t confess you play with the parts
you sell!
|
Yeah... but what, how would you know about the Sellers Club!?
|
Well, I’ve seller status. And then I was told about the rules and said ‘not
for me!’
The most offending rule was that I would have to part from my parts! (You sell
something and the buyers want you to ship it to them! Ludicrous!)
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Bricklord | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 11:50 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| 1-800-waah.
I have been selling 20+ years on here and on Ebay before that. I have always
assembled miinfigs taken from sets, less cloth parts, and sealed them individually
in baggies. This is done to both ensure completeness of the minifigs and that
the parts don't scratch and damage one another. What you are complaining
about and your suggested course of action for it will cause far more issues for
those reasons than is worth the sating of your splitting of hairs 'complaint'.
In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
This must have been raised a million times before. Why is there such a strong
unwillingness to address this?
---------------------------------------
If the rule change is made, there should also be an exemption for listings with
IDs that precede the date of the rule change. Plus perhaps a greyed-out small
text added to ALL 'mew' minifig listings telling the buyer to familiarize
themselves with the rules.
Being a bit acid on this topic is, I am afraid, becoming mandatory. You know
why.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | I have been selling 20+ years on here and on Ebay before that. I have always
assembled miinfigs taken from sets, less cloth parts, and sealed them individually
in baggies.
|
I do have habits for 20+ years also.
It doesn't mean those are all good habits.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | rab1234 | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 12:45 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| The argument of preventing scratching is silly in my opinion since it's already
been shipped to you loose with other parts (unless you're plucking the torso
directly from the assembly line with white cotton gloves). As for ensuring completeness,
there's no difference between assembling them and putting them in a bag and
just putting the parts in the bag. You still have to check for completeness.
In Suggestions, Bricklord writes:
| | 1-800-waah.
I have been selling 20+ years on here and on Ebay before that. I have always
assembled miinfigs taken from sets, less cloth parts, and sealed them individually
in baggies. This is done to both ensure completeness of the minifigs and that
the parts don't scratch and damage one another. What you are complaining
about and your suggested course of action for it will cause far more issues for
those reasons than is worth the sating of your splitting of hairs 'complaint'.
In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
This must have been raised a million times before. Why is there such a strong
unwillingness to address this?
---------------------------------------
If the rule change is made, there should also be an exemption for listings with
IDs that precede the date of the rule change. Plus perhaps a greyed-out small
text added to ALL 'mew' minifig listings telling the buyer to familiarize
themselves with the rules.
Being a bit acid on this topic is, I am afraid, becoming mandatory. You know
why.
|
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | runner.caller | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:37 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Bricklord writes:
| | 1-800-waah.
I have been selling 20+ years on here and on Ebay before that. I have always
assembled miinfigs taken from sets, less cloth parts, and sealed them individually
in baggies. This is done to both ensure completeness of the minifigs and that
the parts don't scratch and damage one another. What you are complaining
about and your suggested course of action for it will cause far more issues for
those reasons than is worth the sating of your splitting of hairs 'complaint'.
In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | Currently rules are as follows:
New Parts - Parts are brand new, taken directly from new sets or were purchased
"as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A Brick and have been
handled only for sorting. These parts have never been used in any manner. If
a minifigure or part assembly was originally sold assembled by LEGO, its component
parts after disassembly can also be listed as new.
Plus:
New Minifigures - Minifigures are brand new, taken directly from new sets
or were purchased "as new" in another form such as accessory packs or Pick A
Brick and have been handled only for sorting. Minifigures may be listed as new
either assembled or unassembled.
Scenario - I buy a NEW minifig from a seller with an intention to part it out
and sell as parts. But the seller is inconsiderate enough to assemble the new
minifigs for sale.
Rules only allow the sale of the previously assembled minifig's parts as
'new' only if the said assembled minifig was originally sold assembled
by LEGO.
@BL Team - please explain how this is not contradictory and/or fix this
once and for all. Disallowing the assembly of NEW minifigs for sale would be
the sensible thing to do?
OR! And this would be the worst way to solve this and thus I assume the most
likely one - add an additional setting for 'assembled' or 'unassembled'
for minifig listings and specifically disallow the sale of minifig parts as new
if they were previously assembled by someone else other than LEGO.
This must have been raised a million times before. Why is there such a strong
unwillingness to address this?
---------------------------------------
If the rule change is made, there should also be an exemption for listings with
IDs that precede the date of the rule change. Plus perhaps a greyed-out small
text added to ALL 'mew' minifig listings telling the buyer to familiarize
themselves with the rules.
Being a bit acid on this topic is, I am afraid, becoming mandatory. You know
why.
|
|
+1, the scratching is the biggest sticking point for me. If I were to buy a new
figure for collecting, I'd probs want it assembled so that they don't
scratch, but I really wouldn't care.
If I was buying a new figure to part out, I'd just list the parted out pieces
as used with description saying "pulled from brand new assembled figure"
In my experience, if it's a desirable part, buyers will pay even more than
the new 6ma or used figure parts in good/excellent condition if you have enough
other variety in your store.
Imagine unassembled LOTR uruk-hai figs from 2013 being sold as new now.
The aged brittleness of that era parts would probably cause brand new torso to
crack if installed on a pair of legs now. Much better off assembled new in 2013
and sealed.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:43 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | In my experience, if it's a desirable part, buyers will pay even more than
the new 6ma or used figure parts in good/excellent condition if you have enough
other variety in your store.
|
Even undesirable damaged parts still sell well and oftentimes over the 6-month
average
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ImperialFleet | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:46 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | That is true!! |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:54 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ImperialFleet writes:
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 12:05 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 12:40 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | | Are you sure you're not just complaining to complain?
|
Says the specialist of it!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | UTLF | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 13:49 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | ImperialFleet | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:24 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| If the seller has already assembled it, just ask them to disassemble it!
Problem solved!!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:29 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | unfortunatly that would lead to it being in used condition |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | ImperialFleet | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:30 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| | I know, I was being funny lol |
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:31 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 18 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| |
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:43 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ImperialFleet writes:
| | If the seller has already assembled it, just ask them to disassemble it!
|
Gently Used twice only.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | ImperialFleet | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:29 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| But there is a slight problem. Older sets would come with head and torso attached
and cannot be removed and listed as a new minifigure that is partially assembled.
Then we run in to another problem: say you do part out, how can you list the
head and torso as new if they were together???
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:30 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| there is a specific rule for that in which case you can take it apart and still
sell it as new. Or you can create a superlot
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | ImperialFleet | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:32 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 16 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Ok, i was not aware of that.
Still i think it should be up to the seller because I assemble mine to make sure
they are complete at quick glance. Otherwise buyer might end up with missing
parts.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:41 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I agree it should be optional. In the past, I assembled figures but have started
to switch away from it but still cant blame any sellers for assembling them.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ImperialFleet | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:45 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 17 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Yeah. I think it should be like complete/incomplete but instead assembled/unassembled
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:49 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, ImperialFleet writes:
| | Yeah. I think it should be like complete/incomplete but instead assembled/unassembled
|
The problem with having assembled vs unassembled is that you then get two different
prices for the same new minifig.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 15:53 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 19 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | In Suggestions, ImperialFleet writes:
| | Yeah. I think it should be like complete/incomplete but instead assembled/unassembled
|
The problem with having assembled vs unassembled is that you then get two different
prices for the same new minifig.
|
+1 But maybe the "assembled/unassembled" could be an option I was thinking of
it earlier as well of maybe when listing a figure you can tick a box that shows
whether its assembled or disassembled so everyone happy
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ImperialFleet | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 16:03 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| Maybe they would still be same price, but only to satisfy those who care? Idk
just throwing out all my thoughts!
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Nov 9, 2022 18:28 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| The rules are clear, and not contradictory.
However, a quick look through minifigure listings shows that many sellers include
comments describing whether the new minifigure has been assembled or not. It
is easy to do a search for listings that have comments describing if the minifigures
have been assembled. That will hopefully save you some time.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 05:07 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, calebfishn writes:
| | The rules are clear, and not contradictory.
|
Are you serious?
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Nov 10, 2022 05:23 | | Subject: | Re: Fix contradictory rules - assembled minifigs | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, enig writes:
| | In Suggestions, calebfishn writes:
| | The rules are clear, and not contradictory.
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Are you serious?
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I mean... I have read all of the replies. I don't think I saw a single person
addressing the point that the rules are, in fact, contradictory. It's as
basic of a logic inference as it gets.
@calebfishn Do you you really need help in having the contradiction explained
to you in some other way than in the OP?
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