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| | | Author: | StormChaser  | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 00:01 | | Subject: | Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 211 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
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| We'll be opening public discussion on February 1st, 2021 for an additional
round of correcting mis-categorizations. The discussion will last through the
end of February.
We'll review internally during the month of March and the approved changes
will occur at the beginning of April.
We plan to address the issue of tiles/plates this time around and also several
issues we couldn't get to last time. No promises, but we're also hoping
to finally move brick-built games from Gear to Sets in response to numerous complaints
over the last decade or so.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 03:10 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'll be opening public discussion on February 1st, 2021 for an additional
round of correcting mis-categorizations. The discussion will last through the
end of February.
We'll review internally during the month of March and the approved changes
will occur at the beginning of April.
We plan to address the issue of tiles/plates this time around and also several
issues we couldn't get to last time. No promises, but we're also hoping
to finally move brick-built games from Gear to Sets in response to numerous complaints
over the last decade or so.
|
Is a month long enough to discuss the tiles/plates issues? Especially the shortest
month!
It should be an interesting discussion. And let's hope you get permissions
to make any sensible changes.
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| | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 05:28 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | Is a month long enough to discuss the tiles/plates issues? Especially the shortest
month!
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I think it is. It's already been discussed at length multiple times in the
forum, both recently and in the past. We've stayed in touch with the discussions
and are really not expecting much difficulty sorting out tiles and plates.
| | And let's hope you get permissions
to make any sensible changes.
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It isn't just me doing this. It's a community effort involving all of
us, including the rest of the catalog team. But yes, the site has no problems
with it.
It's pretty much exactly what we did on October 1st. Just different things
this time around.
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 05:13 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 128 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'll be opening public discussion on February 1st, 2021 for an additional
round of correcting mis-categorizations. The discussion will last through the
end of February.
We'll review internally during the month of March and the approved changes
will occur at the beginning of April.
We plan to address the issue of tiles/plates this time around and also several
issues we couldn't get to last time. No promises, but we're also hoping
to finally move brick-built games from Gear to Sets in response to numerous complaints
over the last decade or so.
|
Thanks for the headsup! And I agree with yorbrick that it's ok if this takes
time. I'd much rather have this change take a long time (what's another
month on a decade?) than if it turns out again that some changes are postponed
for later. This is going to be a puzzle and quite a mess for me, and other catagory-based
sorters as well, so having to put the puzzle together twice is really twice the
amount of work for us. And probably from other perspectives (such as buyers'
) it's better as well to rip off the bandaid at once 
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| | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 05:50 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Thanks for the headsup! And I agree with yorbrick that it's ok if this takes
time.
|
It has taken time . . . 20 years of it. Categorizing items is a topic
that has been discussed going back nearly to the founding of the site.
With written category definitions finally official on the site for the first
time in 2020, the time has come for action. We took some action on October 1st,
moving over 500 items. Now we plan to take further action with the support of
the community.
| | This is going to be a puzzle and quite a mess for me, and other catagory-based
sorters as well
|
Indeed it will be and I apologize for that. The "it will be inconvenient for
sellers" argument has meant that in the past parts have rarely been moved once
they landed in the catalog - even if the categorizations didn't make sense
in hindsight.
We're trying to minimize the inconvenience, but handing the next generation
of LEGO fans the same catalog we got is not fair. Because then they'll
complain that the catalog makes little sense in some areas. But they'll
get used to it and then complain when things are moved. And pass the same poorly-organized
catalog down to the generation following them. Someone has to end that
cycle.
Now that we have written category definitions our goal is to make a little more
sense of its organization. We're not moving things around because it's
fun, believe me.
| | ) it's better as well to rip off the bandaid at once
|
I agree. It would be nice to start over and get everything perfect from the
start. Ain't the way the world works, though. Everything in life is a process.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | maxx3001 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 06:06 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
For someone who has been out of really selling bulk for the last 6 years, what
is the problem?
I understand the catalog problem, but is it because large sellers have items
stored under catalog definitions?
Serious question.
Maxx
| | | | Thanks for the headsup! And I agree with yorbrick that it's ok if this takes
time.
|
It has taken time . . . 20 years of it. Categorizing items is a topic
that has been discussed going back nearly to the founding of the site.
With written category definitions finally official on the site for the first
time in 2020, the time has come for action. We took some action on October 1st,
moving over 500 items. Now we plan to take further action with the support of
the community.
| | This is going to be a puzzle and quite a mess for me, and other catagory-based
sorters as well
|
Indeed it will be and I apologize for that. The "it will be inconvenient for
sellers" argument has meant that in the past parts have rarely been moved once
they landed in the catalog - even if the categorizations didn't make sense
in hindsight.
We're trying to minimize the inconvenience, but handing the next generation
of LEGO fans the same catalog we got is not fair. Because then they'll
complain that the catalog makes little sense in some areas. But they'll
get used to it and then complain when things are moved. And pass the same poorly-organized
catalog down to the generation following them. Someone has to end that
cycle.
Now that we have written category definitions our goal is to make a little more
sense of its organization. We're not moving things around because it's
fun, believe me.
| | ) it's better as well to rip off the bandaid at once
|
I agree. It would be nice to start over and get everything perfect from the
start. Ain't the way the world works, though. Everything in life is a process.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 06:24 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, maxx3001 writes:
| | I understand the catalog problem, but is it because large sellers have items
stored under catalog definitions?
|
Yes, that's correct. Teup explains it:
"The fact that parts are sometimes in a place where you didn't
expect it, will always remain. The cost of the change on the other hand would
be quite big, for sellers like me - both in terms of memory and in terms of storage.
If there would be significant changes, it could change my storage alot and cause
a domino effect where, in an extreme case of changing even parts like these,
I'd have to redesign my entire store layout and hope that it will all still
fit."
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1113085
Some stores are organized entirely by the BrickLink catalog and changes in the
catalog can have drastic effects on such storage systems.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | maxx3001 | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 09:57 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, maxx3001 writes:
| | I understand the catalog problem, but is it because large sellers have items
stored under catalog definitions?
|
Yes, that's correct. Teup explains it:
"The fact that parts are sometimes in a place where you didn't
expect it, will always remain. The cost of the change on the other hand would
be quite big, for sellers like me - both in terms of memory and in terms of storage.
If there would be significant changes, it could change my storage alot and cause
a domino effect where, in an extreme case of changing even parts like these,
I'd have to redesign my entire store layout and hope that it will all still
fit."
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1113085
Some stores are organized entirely by the BrickLink catalog and changes in the
catalog can have drastic effects on such storage systems.
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Thank you, I thought as much
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 10:21 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, maxx3001 writes:
| | I understand the catalog problem, but is it because large sellers have items
stored under catalog definitions?
|
Some stores are organized entirely by the BrickLink catalog and changes in the
catalog can have drastic effects on such storage systems.
|
Very true. I am a category sorter as well. It does take me a few months to really
catch up to category changes by moving parts, changing a label or two, and retraining
my brain where to look for stuff.
On the other hand, it's very nice to see progress and our catalog was never
meant to be static. I just need to remember to click the 'Chg Log' button
before I spend too much time searching. 
Jen
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 09:27 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Thanks for the headsup! And I agree with yorbrick that it's ok if this takes
time.
|
It has taken time . . . 20 years of it. Categorizing items is a topic
that has been discussed going back nearly to the founding of the site.
With written category definitions finally official on the site for the first
time in 2020, the time has come for action. We took some action on October 1st,
moving over 500 items. Now we plan to take further action with the support of
the community.
| | This is going to be a puzzle and quite a mess for me, and other catagory-based
sorters as well
|
Indeed it will be and I apologize for that. The "it will be inconvenient for
sellers" argument has meant that in the past parts have rarely been moved once
they landed in the catalog - even if the categorizations didn't make sense
in hindsight.
We're trying to minimize the inconvenience, but handing the next generation
of LEGO fans the same catalog we got is not fair. Because then they'll
complain that the catalog makes little sense in some areas. But they'll
get used to it and then complain when things are moved. And pass the same poorly-organized
catalog down to the generation following them. Someone has to end that
cycle.
Now that we have written category definitions our goal is to make a little more
sense of its organization. We're not moving things around because it's
fun, believe me.
| | ) it's better as well to rip off the bandaid at once
|
I agree. It would be nice to start over and get everything perfect from the
start. Ain't the way the world works, though. Everything in life is a process.
|
Yep, got it, I'm just trying to avoid the situation we had last time when
things were postponed. I totally get life gets in the way sometimes (and it should,
and especially if you don't get paid!  ) but I'd rather have the update
postponed then a "ok we'll do the rest in a couple of months" kind of situation.
Really not blaming anyone, just underlining it's important to make sure we've
got everything. I totally get the rest of it, will not start up a discussion
about the necessity of it all etc, you've already got enough work on your
hands as it is
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 12:43 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Yep, got it, I'm just trying to avoid the situation we had last time when
things were postponed.
|
Oh, okay. I understand you now.
Will we move every single thing that needs to be moved this time around? I wish
I could say, "Yes, we will and this won't have to happen again." But honestly,
that's probably not the case since there're over 100,000 items in the
catalog.
But since you asked: last time went fairly well, so we'll try to put a greater
effort into getting more stuff done this time so we don't have to keep doing
this.
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| | | | | Author: | marlinjc | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 10:58 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| When things are moved or renamed, it is often difficult to find the listing for
a part under the new classification. It would be very helpful if an index or
some listing could associate the old name/classification with then new.
In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'll be opening public discussion on February 1st, 2021 for an additional
round of correcting mis-categorizations. The discussion will last through the
end of February.
We'll review internally during the month of March and the approved changes
will occur at the beginning of April.
We plan to address the issue of tiles/plates this time around and also several
issues we couldn't get to last time. No promises, but we're also hoping
to finally move brick-built games from Gear to Sets in response to numerous complaints
over the last decade or so.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 11:12 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, marlinjc writes:
| | When things are moved or renamed, it is often difficult to find the listing for
a part under the new classification. It would be very helpful if an index or
some listing could associate the old name/classification with then new.
|
Smart!
| |
In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'll be opening public discussion on February 1st, 2021 for an additional
round of correcting mis-categorizations. The discussion will last through the
end of February.
We'll review internally during the month of March and the approved changes
will occur at the beginning of April.
We plan to address the issue of tiles/plates this time around and also several
issues we couldn't get to last time. No promises, but we're also hoping
to finally move brick-built games from Gear to Sets in response to numerous complaints
over the last decade or so.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 11:35 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, marlinjc writes:
| | When things are moved or renamed, it is often difficult to find the listing for
a part under the new classification. It would be very helpful if an index or
some listing could associate the old name/classification with then new.
|
There is a published list here:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2487
And, there is the change log link at the bottom of each catalog item page. It's
named 'Chg Log' Lots of good information there!
Next, there are links to all the change logs on the main catalog page. Clink
Changes, To Items.
Then, on the next page, change the search from
-Any Status- to Completed
-All Changes- to Item Category Change
This list is a bit difficult to follow, but a quick weekly check should keep
you in the loop of all category changes.
Hope that helps!
Jen
| |
In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'll be opening public discussion on February 1st, 2021 for an additional
round of correcting mis-categorizations. The discussion will last through the
end of February.
We'll review internally during the month of March and the approved changes
will occur at the beginning of April.
We plan to address the issue of tiles/plates this time around and also several
issues we couldn't get to last time. No promises, but we're also hoping
to finally move brick-built games from Gear to Sets in response to numerous complaints
over the last decade or so.
|
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| | | | | Author: | chetzler | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 12:11 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'll be opening public discussion on February 1st, 2021 for an additional
round of correcting mis-categorizations. The discussion will last through the
end of February.
We'll review internally during the month of March and the approved changes
will occur at the beginning of April.
We plan to address the issue of tiles/plates this time around and also several
issues we couldn't get to last time. No promises, but we're also hoping
to finally move brick-built games from Gear to Sets in response to numerous complaints
over the last decade or so
|
Can we PLEASE, PLEASE get some some sort of easy-to-see link or reference to
the legacy categories this time? I'm not going to argue whether the changes
are necessary, that ship has sailed.
It is very disruptive to seller workflow when a whole bunch of categories suddenly
change. When I'm pulling a 100-lot order, I don't really have time to
click on the part entry and then click another link to review the change log
for every part that has been moved--this is very frustrating. I do not understand
why such as simple thing as a legacy reference cannot be implemented. I think
we were told before that the site could not (or would not) support it. If that
is the case just put the old category in the item name field.
e.g.
Cone 2 x 2 Truncated (formerly Brick, Round)
Heck, you can even remove it after 6 months or so; just give sellers a chance
to adapt. Remember that most users don't read the forum. I understand that
some members see catalog curation as an academic exercise and that is fine, but
don't forget that the catalog does not exist in a vacuum and that (at least)
tens of thousands of people use it multiple times each day. We rely on it to
be available and consistent to run our businesses.
I don't see anything unreasonable about a request for a legacy category reference.
If there is unwillingness to do this, at the very least, temporarily, I think
we deserve an explanation as to why.
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| | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 13:14 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, chetzler writes:
| | If that
is the case just put the old category in the item name field.
e.g.
Cone 2 x 2 Truncated (formerly Brick, Round)
|
Asking the site for any programmed changes is pretty much out. If we want this
we'll have to do it ourselves.
| | Heck, you can even remove it after 6 months or so; just give sellers a chance
to adapt.
|
Yes, we'll try to put changes in titles this time around using the keyword
"formerly" and remove them six months later. That's a fair request. I can't
promise we'll do it for every single item, though . . . if we move games
from Gear to Sets, for example, the titles wouldn't change.
The main problem with modifying titles like this is that those things get stuck
in titles and never removed. Here's an item number change from five years
ago:
And there are others scattered throughout the catalog with no way (no keyword)
to locate them. But we'll have a complete list this time and updating the
titles in six months should therefore be simple. So there's no reason we
can't accommodate your request.
Thanks for suggesting it.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 14:05 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, chetzler writes:
| | If that
is the case just put the old category in the item name field.
e.g.
Cone 2 x 2 Truncated (formerly Brick, Round)
|
Asking the site for any programmed changes is pretty much out. If we want this
we'll have to do it ourselves.
| | Heck, you can even remove it after 6 months or so; just give sellers a chance
to adapt.
|
Yes, we'll try to put changes in titles this time around using the keyword
"formerly" and remove them six months later. That's a fair request. I can't
promise we'll do it for every single item, though . . . if we move games
from Gear to Sets, for example, the titles wouldn't change.
The main problem with modifying titles like this is that those things get stuck
in titles and never removed. Here's an item number change from five years
ago:
And there are others scattered throughout the catalog with no way (no keyword)
to locate them. But we'll have a complete list this time and updating the
titles in six months should therefore be simple. So there's no reason we
can't accommodate your request.
Thanks for suggesting it.
|
That might be a good approach, as it is true that most sellers wouldn't know
to search in the help pages to get the list of all changes section.
Thanks for letting us know about the state of this project.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | chetzler | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2020 15:05 | | Subject: | Re: Moving Things, Part 2 | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, chetzler writes:
| | If that
is the case just put the old category in the item name field.
e.g.
Cone 2 x 2 Truncated (formerly Brick, Round)
|
Asking the site for any programmed changes is pretty much out. If we want this
we'll have to do it ourselves.
| | Heck, you can even remove it after 6 months or so; just give sellers a chance
to adapt.
|
Yes, we'll try to put changes in titles this time around using the keyword
"formerly" and remove them six months later. That's a fair request. I can't
promise we'll do it for every single item, though . . . if we move games
from Gear to Sets, for example, the titles wouldn't change.
The main problem with modifying titles like this is that those things get stuck
in titles and never removed. Here's an item number change from five years
ago:
And there are others scattered throughout the catalog with no way (no keyword)
to locate them. But we'll have a complete list this time and updating the
titles in six months should therefore be simple. So there's no reason we
can't accommodate your request.
Thanks for suggesting it.
|
Thank you for listening and being open to it. The gear-to-sets move is not a
problem. It's much more critical to be able to keep track of where thousands
(or tens of thousands for some sellers) of lots are (or have been) located.
The keyword "formerly" seems like a good way to keep track of these items so
they can easily be rounded up and re-modified 6 months later.
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