|  | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Teup  | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 12:46 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
Thanks for the clear communication StormChaser, appreciate it! Still think the
Slope,Curved category looks pretty ugly now, but if it's what the majority
wants, that's what we'll do  At least I'm now 100% adapted to the
changes.
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|
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| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 13:05 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 13:07 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
Efforts towards improving or streamlining the catalog, are much appreciated!
Especially these types of improvements which make the search more intuitive and
thorough, more enjoyable, the ultimate goal of any catalog. Thanks.
As to feedback on the specific changes listed, they look good to me. I'm
sure you're aware there's much more that can be done, though. More items
to consider and not just within parts. But a good start!
-popsicle
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| | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 13:10 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
The lever category still seems to exist (thought they were getting merged into
antenna); has that been put off for now?
Anyway, thanks for all the probably monotonous work it took to do this as fast
as possible! It is appreciated!
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|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | tons_of_bricks | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 13:11 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, firestar246 writes:
| | In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
The lever category still seems to exist (thought they were getting merged into
antenna); has that been put off for now?
Anyway, thanks for all the probably monotonous work it took to do this as fast
as possible! It is appreciated!
|
Nevermind, seems "Lever" is indeed gone. However, when I search lever and look
in the overview, it still says that the "antenna small base" are in the lever
category... another glitch with the search?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 13:21 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | EnchantedBricks | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 13:17 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
It will take a bit to get used to the changes but most of them make sense and
I agree with. I appreciate all the work you put into those changes.
Always Let Your Imagination Run Wild!
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|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 13:25 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
Most of the changes make sense. The curved slope category now is very large,
and that is a challenge for managing stock. I think the Lego will continue to
evolve with more curved and rounded parts, so this category will continue to
grow, and will then need some way to split it up.
I know there have been many discussions, but I am still not clear on the logical
difference between a round brick, modified brick, and a curved slope.
I like the Projectile category.
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| | | | | Author: | Give.Me.A.Brick | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 16:09 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | Give.Me.A.Brick | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 16:13 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
I agree with grouping the curved bricks in one category, I only would prefer
the category to be named "Brick, Curved" (or maybe "Brick, Curved Top/Bottom")
instead of "Slope, Curved", in which I would also include
I would also prefer "Brick, Rounded Face" (or "Brick, Rounded Side(s)", or
just "Brick, Rounded") instead or "Brick, Round", in which I would include
Just brainstorming here, maybe some of you fine folks could polish it a bit?
@Stormchaser, are you accepting suggestions to move more parts? For instance,
I would suggest moving to Slope category. (Have some others in mind,
but don't want to spam the forum, unless you are accepting ideas on that
department.)
Thank you.
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|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 16:57 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | I would also prefer "Brick, Rounded Face" (or "Brick, Rounded Side(s)", or
just "Brick, Rounded") instead or "Brick, Round", in which I would include
|
That one surely is an odd one out and still needs to find its place. But it's
not necessarily needed to change the term "Brick, Round" in order to justify
putting it there. I mean, you could, but under its current definition, these
too already count as (plate) Round:
So, even if you just stay consistent with the way things already are, that Brick
already counts as "Round".
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Give.Me.A.Brick | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 17:07 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | In Catalog, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | I would also prefer "Brick, Rounded Face" (or "Brick, Rounded Side(s)", or
just "Brick, Rounded") instead or "Brick, Round", in which I would include
|
That one surely is an odd one out and still needs to find its place. But it's
not necessarily needed to change the term "Brick, Round" in order to justify
putting it there. I mean, you could, but under its current definition, these
too already count as (plate) Round:
So, even if you just stay consistent with the way things already are, that Brick
already counts as "Round".
|
I hear you. But, maybe it is a preciosism of mine, but I feel that "Brick, Rounded"
is a larger umbrella.
The same way, "Plate Rounded" with house this little fellow and eventually
these too
And also "Tile, Rounded" would incorporate
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 17:27 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | In Catalog, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | I would also prefer "Brick, Rounded Face" (or "Brick, Rounded Side(s)", or
just "Brick, Rounded") instead or "Brick, Round", in which I would include
|
That one surely is an odd one out and still needs to find its place. But it's
not necessarily needed to change the term "Brick, Round" in order to justify
putting it there. I mean, you could, but under its current definition, these
too already count as (plate) Round:
So, even if you just stay consistent with the way things already are, that Brick
already counts as "Round".
|
I hear you. But, maybe it is a preciosism of mine, but I feel that "Brick, Rounded"
is a larger umbrella.
The same way, "Plate Rounded" with house this little fellow and eventually
these too
And also "Tile, Rounded" would incorporate
|
I think you're on to something. And that tile is an inconsistency again.
This, after all, is currently considered a Plate,Round:
So as far as I can see, that renders that tile "Round" as well. I agree "Rounded"
would be a more precise term. But I don't mind so much either way, as long
as it is consistent. Currently not all parts are.
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 17:33 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | In Catalog, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | In Catalog, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | I would also prefer "Brick, Rounded Face" (or "Brick, Rounded Side(s)", or
just "Brick, Rounded") instead or "Brick, Round", in which I would include
|
That one surely is an odd one out and still needs to find its place. But it's
not necessarily needed to change the term "Brick, Round" in order to justify
putting it there. I mean, you could, but under its current definition, these
too already count as (plate) Round:
So, even if you just stay consistent with the way things already are, that Brick
already counts as "Round".
|
I hear you. But, maybe it is a preciosism of mine, but I feel that "Brick, Rounded"
is a larger umbrella.
The same way, "Plate Rounded" with house this little fellow and eventually
these too
And also "Tile, Rounded" would incorporate
|
I think you're on to something. And that tile is an inconsistency again.
This, after all, is currently considered a Plate,Round:
So as far as I can see, that renders that tile "Round" as well. I agree "Rounded"
would be a more precise term. But I don't mind so much either way, as long
as it is consistent. Currently not all parts are.
|
Another issue is the hierarchy of Round vs Modified. Currently, there are no
X,Round,Modified categories. Therefore a choice has been made to give Round precedence
over Modified (Brick,Round and Plate,Round contain many "modified" Bricks and
Plates that are also "round"). But that then means that, as you said, this one
must also be a Plate,Round. Because it is "modified" but also has a rounded side:
"Plate, Round - For items recognizably plates that have one or more rounded
corners, with or without attachments or modifications."
Reading this definition, I think this right here is enough reason to move this
part right now, ahead of any broader changes that may come.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 18:08 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | […]
So as far as I can see, that renders that tile "Round" as well. I agree "Rounded"
would be a more precise term.
|
Not a problem: English is losing morphemes (prefixes, suffixes), so Round, Rounded,
Rounds, Roundly, Roundness will all end to be only “Round” with different tones
| | But I don't mind so much either way, as long
as it is consistent. Currently not all parts are.
|
It’s in your mind 
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 18:39 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | […]
So as far as I can see, that renders that tile "Round" as well. I agree "Rounded"
would be a more precise term.
|
Not a problem: English is losing morphemes (prefixes, suffixes), so Round, Rounded,
Rounds, Roundly, Roundness will all end to be only “Round” with different tones
|
Yep, I still can't get over native English speakers dropping "-en" in "golden".
When you're a gold digger and you realise that you were made of gold all
along...
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 19:01 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | […]
So as far as I can see, that renders that tile "Round" as well. I agree "Rounded"
would be a more precise term.
|
Not a problem: English is losing morphemes (prefixes, suffixes), so Round, Rounded,
Rounds, Roundly, Roundness will all end to be only “Round” with different tones
|
Yep, I still can't get over native English speakers dropping "-en" in "golden".
When you're a gold digger and you realise that you were made of gold all
along...
|
I remember a couple in some news piece: one of them didn’t say anything… except
for a lot of “-ly” when the other talked.
In some couples, one finishes the other’s sentences, here the one was finishing
the other’s words
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| | | | | Author: | WildBricks | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 16:35 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| Those look great. Thanks so much for doing that. I think more than a few of us
have complained about some of those categories over the years.
In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | dearlydeparted | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 16:53 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| OMG, do I have a lot of shuffling, reorg to do. I know all the additions to Slope,
Curved from Brick, Modified will create a huge overflow in the bin. Guess I'll
stay closed for a while, for a big reorganization.
BTW, I really don't get the cannon base, 2527, move into projectile launcher.
It is a support for both shooting and non-shooting canons. That one just seems
odd.
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|
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| | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Oct 1, 2020 17:37 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| These renames and moves make sense to me.
I remember MANY years ago when
was getting added to the catalog, and so they had to create the Roof category.
We've come so far!
Thank you for your efforts in this, and also thank you for posting the list a
while back so that people could give feedback before the changes were made.
David
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| | | | | Author: | HTownBricks | | Posted: | Oct 3, 2020 02:22 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| Ummm... no thanks.
If Bricks with curves are now "Slope, Curved" then the following elements need
to be moved as well: 6005, 18653 (inverted), 6060. (The previous comment is
not a real suggestion...just an illustration of the folly inherent in some of
these moves).
The elements in question (6091, etc.) are more "Brick, Curved" or "Brick, Arch"
than they are "Brick, Modified"....but they are definitely NOT "Slope, Curved."
"Antenna, Small Base with Lever" does not describe what is clearly a "Lever."
It could be used as an antenna if you so choose, but can also be used as a lever,
which is what it is.
Why are we making it harder for our customers to find the parts they need? The
element description should DESCRIBE THE ELEMENT. And BrickLink had done a better
job of it than both BaP and BrickOwl. If you're going to change something,
make it better, not worse.
I have a business to run and I don't have time to sit around and monitor
the forums all day, so I've pretty much waived my right to an opinion on
the matter. I just felt that some common sense needed to be voiced.
H-Town Bricks
In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Oct 3, 2020 03:47 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, HTownBricks writes:
| | I just felt that some common sense needed to be voiced.
|
Common sense is not so common.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 3, 2020 04:16 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog, HTownBricks writes:
| | I just felt that some common sense needed to be voiced.
|
Common sense is not so common.
|
That may be why in French we have two expressions: sens commun & bon sens
(good sense).
Those who have some bon sens know it’s not common
Anyway, when I read ”common sense,” I generally understand “I couldn’t find any
argument therefore it’s self-evident and should be so for everybody.”
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 3, 2020 12:50 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'd be interested in hearing feedback on the project if anyone would like
to share it.
|
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. Here are responses to most of them:
To those who feel like Slope, Curved makes less sense now:
All of our opinions on curved slopes vs. modified bricks were influenced to varying
degrees by BrickLink itself and the way the site divided these up in the past.
It may be a little strange for a while, but in the end I think we'll all
find it more intuitive to have curved parts used for the same purpose in one
place.
And if you want to get technical, what is a slope or a curved slope in actuality?
Aren't they all just modified bricks and plates at some level? For instance,
this one was recently moved from Brick, Modified to Slope, Curved:
But this one was always in Slope, Curved since it was added to the catalog in
'07:
If we use the logic that the first piece is a modified brick, then surely the
second piece is a modified plate. So if we follow the logic that has been used
in the past to its conclusion, we should eliminate all the slope categories and
just have modified bricks and plates.
I don't think anyone wants that and separating some slopes from others really
doesn't make much sense. That's fixed now, although we have more parts
yet to move when we do this again. Someone suggested the terms Brick, Curved
instead of Slope, Curved, but then we get into the same situation we were in
because we have to decide if an item is Brick, Curved or Plate, Curved.
By the way, the Wedge category probably needs some work also to get some of the
slopes and curved slopes therein closer to the other sloping parts:
To Give.Me.A.Brick:
Right now we'll give the recent changes time to settle in. But yes, I think
we'll do this again. BrickLink never attempted to define categories in writing
before and that recent change will make a difference in what belongs where.
To Teup on moving Part 3176:
Ideally the written category definitions would have been perfect from the start
and everything in the catalog would have been rearranged at once to match them.
In the real world, though, we have to go slowly and be willing to make mistakes
and corrections along the way. Yes, Part 3176 could be moved right now (as could
quite a few others). I think it would be better to wait until the next time
we move a bunch of things again and move them as a group. That seemed to work
pretty well.
To dearlydeparted on the cannon base:
The non-shooting cannon was a modification of the shooting cannon. The base
was originally intended for cannons that shoot projectiles. And moving the base
from Minifigure, Weapon to Projectile Launcher made sense because it definitely
is not a weapon - only a base for one. The category definitions:
Minifigure, Weapon - For items such as swords intended for minifigure
use as offensive weapons. Some may also be used by micro and mini dolls.
Projectile Launcher - For any item that serves the primary function
of launching a projectile, including accessories such as projectiles.
The cannon base is an accessory to a projectile launcher (and, technically, to
the non-shooting cannon as well). If there's a better category for the cannon
base, please share it.
To HTownBricks:
Yes, many items still need to be moved. Again, it would probably be better to
move groups of them at one time. And I'm sorry to hear that you feel these
item movements are folly and demonstrate a lack of common sense. From what I've
read from other members your opinion isn't the majority opinion, but that
doesn't mean it isn't taken seriously.
You mention that the Antenna, Small Base with Lever is not an antenna, but a
lever. This part has been used in a number of ways, including both as an antenna
and a lever. We could examine its use in every set and count the number of times
it was used in each specific way, but that seems like overkill. The truth is
that a single part category (Lever) existed solely for the purpose of this one
part. This makes sense in some cases, but here we didn't believe it was
necessary to have a category used for only one part.
You say we've made it more difficult to find this part, but what about the
people who think of it as an antenna? For them we've made it easier. There
are always trade-offs in a hierarchical system of organization and we made one
here after considering the totality of the circumstances.
In the case of the lever you say the title should describe the element. The
word "lever" was retained in the titles for these parts. It's just not the
first word in the title anymore, having been replaced by "antenna."
One other thing to consider is that future generations inherit the traditions
of past generations without, in many cases, questioning them. You joined BrickLink
just four years ago and you thought this part was a lever (at least to some degree)
because BrickLink said it was. But surely you can think of numerous instances
where the part was used in official sets as an antenna.
Our end goal is that the BrickLink catalog and the way it's organized make
more sense, not less. Site Founder Dan Jezek continually tweaked the catalog
while he was alive. For instance, he removed these categories (only a partial
list):
Baseplate, Platform
Bionicle, Krana Mask
Bionicle, Kraata
Brick, Classic
Brick, Classic Decorated
Brick, Facet
Brick, Octagonal
Brush
Cowpack
Duplo, Doll
Duplo, Farm
For Girls
Gate
Grab
Enviro Model
Exhaust
Hat
Heavy Equipment
Homemaker, Furniture
Homemaker, Room Setting
Jack
Minifig, Plume
Minifig, Visor
Mini Wheel Model Maker
Panel, Sloped
Plant, Flower
Play House
Rack
Stretcher
T-Shirt
Train, Door
Vehicle, Tipper
Vehicle, Tractor
Vehicle, Trailer
Wedge, Brick
Again, he made many more changes than those, including many changes in category
names. His intention was unquestionably that the catalog be a continually-evolving
organism. Continual catalog innovation died, to some degree, when he did.
We're trying to return to Dan's vision of a catalog that continually
evolves toward an ever-more-perfect beast and we appreciate your patience with
us as we try.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Oct 3, 2020 13:23 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | […]
One other thing to consider is that future generations inherit the traditions
of past generations without, in many cases, questioning them.
|
Or, worse, inventing reasons:
A young parent is cooking a roast in front of their child. They cut and remove
the first slice before putting the raw meat in the dish.
The child asks: “Why are you cutting and removing the first slice?”
Parent: “It’s how my mother did it. It’s so the meat makes more juice and doesn’t
dry.”
Child: “Are you sure? Because if the blood is let go, the meat dries quicker.”
Parent: “Well, Grandma is coming, we’ll ask her.”
When the grandma is there, they talk about the recipe:
Parent: “Ma, for the roast, you cut and remove the first slice so that it makes
more juice and doesn’t dry, don’t you?”
Young grandma: “Er, yes… maybe… that’s how my mother did. That’s what I assumed.”
Parent: “But that’s what you told me once! She never told you why? You never
asked?”
Young grandma: “Well, er, no. But it’s logical, isn’t it?”
Child: “Grandma, if you let the blood go and dry in the dish, how can the meat
be juicer?”
Parent: “Well, we’ll ask her Sunday when we go see her!”
Sunday, all the family goes see the great-grandma. Eventually, they talk about
the recipe and the same discussion ensues:
Young grandma: “But you did cut and remove the first slice so the roast was juicer,
didn’t you?”
Great-grandma: “Phaw! Absolutely not! It’s just the dish that was too short!”
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 3, 2020 14:17 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | We'd be interested in hearing feedback on the project if anyone would like
to share it.
|
Thank you all for sharing your thoughts. Here are responses to most of them:
To those who feel like Slope, Curved makes less sense now:
All of our opinions on curved slopes vs. modified bricks were influenced to varying
degrees by BrickLink itself and the way the site divided these up in the past.
It may be a little strange for a while, but in the end I think we'll all
find it more intuitive to have curved parts used for the same purpose in one
place.
And if you want to get technical, what is a slope or a curved slope in actuality?
Aren't they all just modified bricks and plates at some level? For instance,
this one was recently moved from Brick, Modified to Slope, Curved:
But this one was always in Slope, Curved since it was added to the catalog in
'07:
If we use the logic that the first piece is a modified brick, then surely the
second piece is a modified plate. So if we follow the logic that has been used
in the past to its conclusion, we should eliminate all the slope categories and
just have modified bricks and plates.
I don't think anyone wants that and separating some slopes from others really
doesn't make much sense. That's fixed now, although we have more parts
yet to move when we do this again. Someone suggested the terms Brick, Curved
instead of Slope, Curved, but then we get into the same situation we were in
because we have to decide if an item is Brick, Curved or Plate, Curved.
By the way, the Wedge category probably needs some work also to get some of the
slopes and curved slopes therein closer to the other sloping parts:
To Give.Me.A.Brick:
Right now we'll give the recent changes time to settle in. But yes, I think
we'll do this again. BrickLink never attempted to define categories in writing
before and that recent change will make a difference in what belongs where.
To Teup on moving Part 3176:
Ideally the written category definitions would have been perfect from the start
and everything in the catalog would have been rearranged at once to match them.
In the real world, though, we have to go slowly and be willing to make mistakes
and corrections along the way. Yes, Part 3176 could be moved right now (as could
quite a few others). I think it would be better to wait until the next time
we move a bunch of things again and move them as a group. That seemed to work
pretty well.
To dearlydeparted on the cannon base:
The non-shooting cannon was a modification of the shooting cannon. The base
was originally intended for cannons that shoot projectiles. And moving the base
from Minifigure, Weapon to Projectile Launcher made sense because it definitely
is not a weapon - only a base for one. The category definitions:
Minifigure, Weapon - For items such as swords intended for minifigure
use as offensive weapons. Some may also be used by micro and mini dolls.
Projectile Launcher - For any item that serves the primary function
of launching a projectile, including accessories such as projectiles.
The cannon base is an accessory to a projectile launcher (and, technically, to
the non-shooting cannon as well). If there's a better category for the cannon
base, please share it.
To HTownBricks:
Yes, many items still need to be moved. Again, it would probably be better to
move groups of them at one time. And I'm sorry to hear that you feel these
item movements are folly and demonstrate a lack of common sense. From what I've
read from other members your opinion isn't the majority opinion, but that
doesn't mean it isn't taken seriously.
You mention that the Antenna, Small Base with Lever is not an antenna, but a
lever. This part has been used in a number of ways, including both as an antenna
and a lever. We could examine its use in every set and count the number of times
it was used in each specific way, but that seems like overkill. The truth is
that a single part category (Lever) existed solely for the purpose of this one
part. This makes sense in some cases, but here we didn't believe it was
necessary to have a category used for only one part.
You say we've made it more difficult to find this part, but what about the
people who think of it as an antenna? For them we've made it easier. There
are always trade-offs in a hierarchical system of organization and we made one
here after considering the totality of the circumstances.
In the case of the lever you say the title should describe the element. The
word "lever" was retained in the titles for these parts. It's just not the
first word in the title anymore, having been replaced by "antenna."
One other thing to consider is that future generations inherit the traditions
of past generations without, in many cases, questioning them. You joined BrickLink
just four years ago and you thought this part was a lever (at least to some degree)
because BrickLink said it was. But surely you can think of numerous instances
where the part was used in official sets as an antenna.
Our end goal is that the BrickLink catalog and the way it's organized make
more sense, not less. Site Founder Dan Jezek continually tweaked the catalog
while he was alive. For instance, he removed these categories (only a partial
list):
Baseplate, Platform
Bionicle, Krana Mask
Bionicle, Kraata
Brick, Classic
Brick, Classic Decorated
Brick, Facet
Brick, Octagonal
Brush
Cowpack
Duplo, Doll
Duplo, Farm
For Girls
Gate
Grab
Enviro Model
Exhaust
Hat
Heavy Equipment
Homemaker, Furniture
Homemaker, Room Setting
Jack
Minifig, Plume
Minifig, Visor
Mini Wheel Model Maker
Panel, Sloped
Plant, Flower
Play House
Rack
Stretcher
T-Shirt
Train, Door
Vehicle, Tipper
Vehicle, Tractor
Vehicle, Trailer
Wedge, Brick
Again, he made many more changes than those, including many changes in category
names. His intention was unquestionably that the catalog be a continually-evolving
organism. Continual catalog innovation died, to some degree, when he did.
We're trying to return to Dan's vision of a catalog that continually
evolves toward an ever-more-perfect beast and we appreciate your patience with
us as we try.
|
Thanks for the feedback  totally agree it is better to move things as part
of a larger project, and it would be great to keep that cool-down month as a
standard part of the procedure. In fact, it would have been nice if the movement
of Glass was part of this project, although I guess at the time it wasn't
planned yet. Moving it to the end of the alphabet caused me a bit of running
up and down stairs for a few weeks. Then again, some exercise is always good
Still think roundedness (a quarter circle) and curved sloping faces are totally
different things. In fact, the catalog already acknowledges roundedness when
it is in the horizontal dimensions (Brick,Round) as something different than
sloping or curving sides (Wedge).
However, in the end logic is not the goal, intuitiveness is, and logic can be
part of that. Apparently for most users having both types mixed together in one
category is what they expect to find, then that's how we should do it, so
I'm OK with it now. And after all I haven't been a builder for many years,
so I can't really judge what's useful and what isn't.
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | HTownBricks | | Posted: | Oct 3, 2020 14:43 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| I'm not trying to start a crusade, and it really doesn't matter to me
on a personal level. This has no effect on my storage system or my ability to
add/remove parts from my store. What you perceive to be status quo bias and
inexperience is nothing more than objectivity.
I would argue that anyone's opinion, if obtained through this forum, should
be valued less (including my own). The mere fact that we know enough about the
parts to hold a discussion about categorical nuances means that we are not objective
in our opinions.
The opinions that matter are the end user of the interface. The buyers. Can
an individual with no knowledge of part nomenclature, part history (previous
usage or mold variation), find the parts they are looking for?
Because if they can't, they will go elsewhere to get them. And that's
a lose-lose for everyone here.
I wish you luck. No hard feelings. Feel free to reach out to me should you
choose. I'm putting my nose back to the grindstone.
H-Town Bricks
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| | | | | Author: | enig | | Posted: | Oct 14, 2020 18:32 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
May I suggest moving the following to 'Bar' category
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Oct 15, 2020 04:26 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, enig writes:
| | In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
May I suggest moving the following to 'Bar' category
|
+1
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| | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2020 15:24 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, enig writes:
| | May I suggest moving the following to 'Bar' category
|
There's a change request pending for this.
|
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2020 15:18 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
I can see that I am in the vast minority here on the forum, and I really haven't
used this outlet much over the last 5 or so years, but I cannot begin to express
how frustrated these changes have made me. I have spent the last 6 month slowly
sorting through over 100,000 used parts. This is an especially tedious job,
one that I do not undertake very often. I literally just finished about a week
ago. I spent half of last week reorganizing all my drawers by category, setting
everything up perfectly and have been looking forward to a very organized office
for the first time in a long while.
This week I began sorting through the final miscellaneous pieces that I had missed
only to find that things are not where they were previously or where I expect
them to be. I have gotten a few orders in the last 2 weeks where I search and
search and search for an item only to find out that it's totally been moved
to a new location.
I know many people have said I should use remarks and drawer numbers, but not
everyone does this and I have my reasons for not doing it. It overcomplicates
my storage system and adds an extra step in packing orders that I really do not
think is necessary.
I do appreciate the streamlining of the catalog however, I myself tried to contribute
to that the last time I sorted through used inventory about 5 years ago. That
seemed to fall on deaf ears as every one of my catalog change requests was denied,
even though I had many valid changes.
My biggest frustration with this whole ordeal is that there has literally been
NO COMMUNICATION about these changes. I found out through trial and error, and
lots of frustration and then I had to come to the forum to learn what has happened.
I now how to spend days rearranging my drawers and set up (something I just
finished doing!). How is there no communication to sellers about these changes,
this really is inexcusable. A simple email or an area on our profile that shows
parts that have changed categories in your store would have been beyond helpful.
I see the list posted on this thread and that is at least a little helpful, but
I have no idea if it is an exhaustive list or not. I would appreciate a way
to know everything that has changed, otherwise I will have to pour through the
change log over days to try to figure out what goes where now.
I know this is a long rant. I am happy the catalog is changing and being more
streamlined, I am not upset about that, however these changes have huge ramifications
to every seller. Not everyone sets up there storage system the same way, and
completely changing the catalog without any communication is totally unacceptable.
Not everyone used/knows about the forum either. A change here and there is
easy to deal with but the number of changes that have occurred in the last month
or two NEEDS TO BE COMMUNICATED TO SELLERS THAT IT AFFECT.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2020 15:51 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, par016 writes:
| | I cannot begin to express how frustrated these changes have made me.
|
I'm sorry to hear that you've experienced so much frustration regarding
these changes, Pete. As the person who conceived and executed the project, if
anyone owes you an apology it's me.
| | I do appreciate the streamlining of the catalog however, I myself tried to contribute
to that the last time I sorted through used inventory about 5 years ago. That
seemed to fall on deaf ears as every one of my catalog change requests was denied,
even though I had many valid changes.
|
The catalog management has completely changed during the last five years. If
you're still interested in contributing, you may find us more receptive now.
| | My biggest frustration with this whole ordeal is that there has literally been
NO COMMUNICATION about these changes.
|
Unfortunately, I could not have done more than I did. CAs have no way to mass-email
members. I used the channels I had available to communicate the changes.
I believe the site may be working on improving things in this area . . . but
the site is always "working" on something, as you know. To avoid frustration
for sellers the catalog has remained unchanged in many ways for many years.
Now we're trying to work on that.
We could wait for the site to provide some form of notification for sellers,
but time is passing. Errors and chaotic systems become ever more entrenched
while the site works on - well, whatever the site works on. In fact, the reason
we're having this conversation is because things weren't properly done
many years ago (written category definitions, for example).
| | How is there no communication to sellers about these changes,
this really is inexcusable.
|
I agree, but cannot change this. The only alternative to making progress with
better organizing the catalog is to do nothing at all. This philosophy led to
your other complaint above: every one of my catalog change requests was denied
| | A simple email or an area on our profile that shows
parts that have changed categories in your store would have been beyond helpful.
|
This will require programming changes from the site. They have a rock-solid
track record of providing this service quickly and effectively, so . . .
| | I see the list posted on this thread and that is at least a little helpful, but
I have no idea if it is an exhaustive list or not.
|
Yes, it is a complete list. We've had numerous requests to add to the list
(meaning requests to move additional items) and the requests were not approved.
In spite of that, members can still request category changes and have them approved
- several requests are pending approval right now.
| | I would appreciate a way
to know everything that has changed, otherwise I will have to pour through the
change log over days to try to figure out what goes where now.
|
I attached a picture of the change log showing how to filter it for easier use.
Hopefully that will cut down on the time needed to see the category changes
that have been recently made for parts.
Again, I wish things were better all the way around, but CAs can only affect
so much. In an effort to avoid making no progress at all, we're trying to
do the best we can with what we have.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2020 23:18 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 65 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, StormChaser writes:
| | In Catalog, par016 writes:
| | I cannot begin to express how frustrated these changes have made me.
|
I'm sorry to hear that you've experienced so much frustration regarding
these changes, Pete. As the person who conceived and executed the project, if
anyone owes you an apology it's me.
| | I do appreciate the streamlining of the catalog however, I myself tried to contribute
to that the last time I sorted through used inventory about 5 years ago. That
seemed to fall on deaf ears as every one of my catalog change requests was denied,
even though I had many valid changes.
|
The catalog management has completely changed during the last five years. If
you're still interested in contributing, you may find us more receptive now.
| | My biggest frustration with this whole ordeal is that there has literally been
NO COMMUNICATION about these changes.
|
Unfortunately, I could not have done more than I did. CAs have no way to mass-email
members. I used the channels I had available to communicate the changes.
I believe the site may be working on improving things in this area . . . but
the site is always "working" on something, as you know. To avoid frustration
for sellers the catalog has remained unchanged in many ways for many years.
Now we're trying to work on that.
We could wait for the site to provide some form of notification for sellers,
but time is passing. Errors and chaotic systems become ever more entrenched
while the site works on - well, whatever the site works on. In fact, the reason
we're having this conversation is because things weren't properly done
many years ago (written category definitions, for example).
| | How is there no communication to sellers about these changes,
this really is inexcusable.
|
I agree, but cannot change this. The only alternative to making progress with
better organizing the catalog is to do nothing at all. This philosophy led to
your other complaint above: every one of my catalog change requests was denied
| | A simple email or an area on our profile that shows
parts that have changed categories in your store would have been beyond helpful.
|
This will require programming changes from the site. They have a rock-solid
track record of providing this service quickly and effectively, so . . .
| | I see the list posted on this thread and that is at least a little helpful, but
I have no idea if it is an exhaustive list or not.
|
Yes, it is a complete list. We've had numerous requests to add to the list
(meaning requests to move additional items) and the requests were not approved.
In spite of that, members can still request category changes and have them approved
- several requests are pending approval right now.
| | I would appreciate a way
to know everything that has changed, otherwise I will have to pour through the
change log over days to try to figure out what goes where now.
|
I attached a picture of the change log showing how to filter it for easier use.
Hopefully that will cut down on the time needed to see the category changes
that have been recently made for parts.
Again, I wish things were better all the way around, but CAs can only affect
so much. In an effort to avoid making no progress at all, we're trying to
do the best we can with what we have.
|
Thanks for the message.
I understand there is nothing that you could have done about it, my frustration
was really pointed towards BrickLink and their lack of seller services, especially
catalog change notifications. They really need to fix that.
I do appreciate all the updates to the catalog, I don't have a problem with
any of them. I would love to help with the catalog changes, and I made a nice
post about it around 5 years ago showing all of the things I thought should be
changed (Maybe a list of 40-50 items). Unfortunately, BrickLink doesn't
keep forum messages that far back unless they are in the suggestion topic so
it has been lost and I don't have the time nor energy to try to recreate
that list again. However, I can point out a few I remember off the top of my
head and if someone wants you are anyone else wants to submit them, go right
ahead. These are not definite items that need to be changed, but sometimes the
classifications don't seem to make sense, so they are more thought provoking
with a few that should definitely be changed.
The difference between a plate, modified and a tile, modified should be cleared
up a bit better imo. For instance, these two pieces are in different categories:
That doesn't exactly make any sense especially if you throw in
There are definitely some inconsistencies there. Do tile, modified have studs
or not, and if so, what percentage. Where is the cut off?
Since you moved to slope, curved don't you think deserves
to be moved to slope, curved as well?
If items like this are a cylinder shouldn't parts like
this be also or maybe vice versa?
I'm still not sure the exact difference between an aircraft part and a cockpit
part. Apparently these are aircrafts and these are cockpits
Seems unnecessarily confusing. Not sure why those two categories
can't be combined, I really think the whole aircraft category can be dissolved
into a few other categories. While on the topic of aircraft parts this is an
aircraft however, these are a windscreens
This is a wedge and these are slopes
This is not a round plate It is heart shaped. It should be in the
plate, modified section. It does have some rounded edges, but so does
and . I believe the plate, round section is for round plates or
fractions of round plates. In that light all 3 of these parts, don't contain
studs. Maybe they don't belong in the plate, round section. Maybe the tile
or food section?
Speaking of food, how two of those items I just listed from plate, round not
in the food section when this is? At this point I don't think
it should be in the food category. It's very rarely used as an ice cream
cone anymore and just looking at it by itself, it does not readily bring ice
cream cone to mind. Fits more as a cone in my eyes.
Back again to what's the definition between a plate and a tile, these are
listed under tile, round but they have studs on them
I know there are many more weird quirks to the catalog. I haven't even touched
the technic parts. Some of the ones I mentioned 5 years ago have been changed
it seems, while others still haven't moved. Like I said, feel free to make
any of the changes I mentioned above or don't It doesn't really matter
to me. If you do go through and make a whole mess of changes in a short period
again, would you mind just sending me a quick message to let me know so I can
update my storage system.
Thanks,
Pete
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2020 23:40 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, par016 writes:
| | The difference between a plate, modified and a tile, modified should be cleared
up a bit better imo. For instance, these two pieces are in different categories:
That doesn't exactly make any sense
|
Absolutely agree. We just didn't get to those this time around. We're
trying to make more sense out of things without making too many people (sellers
and BL management both) piqued by the changes.
If the world doesn't end as a result of the changes (and it hasn't yet)
we plan to do it again and hopefully we'll be able to get to some or most
of the issues you brought up in this post. Moving parts again is item 30 on
our catalog roadmap:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2476
| | Since you moved to slope, curved don't you think deserves
to be moved to slope, curved as well?
|
Yep. But remember your concern that the list of moved parts was not conclusive?
That's why this part wasn't moved this time around - because it missed
getting on the list and I didn't want to just start moving things after the
fact.
| | If items like this are a cylinder shouldn't parts like
this be also or maybe vice versa?
|
I think so, yes.
| |
I'm still not sure the exact difference between an aircraft part and a cockpit
part. Apparently these are aircrafts and these are cockpits
Seems unnecessarily confusing.
|
Agree.
| | While on the topic of aircraft parts this is an
aircraft however, these are a windscreens
|
The aft section wasn't designed for use as a windscreen and I don't think
it was ever used as such. It doesn't come in any transparent colors, either.
I'd probably tend not to agree on this.
| | This is a wedge and these are slopes
|
I'd say they're all three slopes.
| | This is not a round plate It is heart shaped. It should be in the
plate, modified section.
|
Haven't looked at this issue closely, but agree that there are classification
problems here. We moved over 500 parts and figured that was plenty for the first
time around.
| | Maybe the tile
or food section?
|
We can look at these next project. Have you taken a look at our relatively new
category definitions page?
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1568
| |
At this point I don't think
it should be in the food category. Fits more as a cone in my eyes.
|
I'd probably agree. Cone with bar.
| | Back again to what's the definition between a plate and a tile, these are
listed under tile, round but they have studs on them
|
We didn't go through plates or tiles at all, I don't think. They are
a mess. We still haven't completely finished with bricks or slopes yet,
either. It will take some time to get all these sorted out. The important thing
is that the sorting is finally happening.
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Oct 20, 2020 12:47 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| Just a few more I remembered:
These should be moved to the technic, brick category and their names should be
switched to 'technic, brick modified' maybe spin that off as it's
own category.
There are a whole bunch of bionicle parts that could/should be listed under the
liftarm section:
This doesn't seem like a windscreen to me I would categorize it
as a window instead. It's never come in transparent colors before, and windows
do not need to be able to hold glass.
This one always seemed weird as a windscreen as well. I mean I kind of get it
but again it's never appeared in a transparent color and I think it would
fit better in the wedge category.
This one I don't know what to do with but nothing about it screams windscreen
to me, not sure how it got there
Not exactly sure if this should be classified as a gear, but it is most often
used as a gear in my experience. Just something to think about:
* | | 32072 Technic Knob Cog / Gear / Wheel with Axle Hole (+ Orientation)
Parts: Technic |
Why would this stay in the technic section when we have a propeller catalog?
* | | 2906 Technic Propeller 4 Blade 7 Stud Diameter with Square Ends
Parts: Technic |
This one never made full sense to me. I guess it could go either way, however
if astromech droids are characterized as minifigures then shouldn't this
me a minifigure body part
If this is a projectile launcher
shouldn't this part also follow suit
The classification on axes and hatchets seems a little inconsistent as to weather
it's a weapon or utensil. The way these are split kinda makes sense but
not fully. These are weapons
[p=53705]
[p=13571c01]
and these are utensils
This being a non-weapon form of a 'saw' seems a little iffy
And trust me Thor wasn't using this for construction
I think this is probably more closely identified as a hook
and this is probably closer to a string reel
If this is a wedge, plate wouldn't it make sense that this was
a wedge instead of a boat part
Again, these are just some listings that confuse me and I am not entirely sure
how to fix all of them. Just having done a ton of used parts sorting, it would
be nice if some of these were fixed to make it a little more intuitive when sorting
in the future.
-Pete
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StormChaser | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2020 23:54 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, par016 writes:
| | I know there are many more weird quirks to the catalog.
|
It's interesting to look at categories from 20 years ago:
https://www.bricklink.com/archive/history/bb112000w.htm
Some highlights:
Barrel
Brick, Facet
Brick, Log
Brick, Octagonal
Brush
Canvas
Castle Wall
Horse
Plane
Platform
Radar Dish
Roller
Tractor
Tyre
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Oct 19, 2020 23:58 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, par016 writes:
| | {a bunch about changes}
Thanks,
Pete
|
Thank you so much Pete for providing all of this valuable information and feedback.
You have no idea how much the catalog/inventory admin team appreciates this kind
of detailed input. I just wanted to let you know that we have heard your voice
and that more changes are almost assuredly scheduled for the future (including
many that you have brought up).
And thank you for also understanding that we are trying our best with what is
available to us. We wish we could do things in a more transparent way, and we
have told the site as much many times over the last few years. As of yet, we
are still where we were then. It is what it is.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Oct 20, 2020 08:28 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, par016 writes:
| | (snip)
The difference between a plate, modified and a tile, modified should be cleared
up a bit better imo. For instance, these two pieces are in different categories:
That doesn't exactly make any sense especially if you throw in
There are definitely some inconsistencies there. Do tile, modified have studs
or not, and if so, what percentage. Where is the cut off?
(snip)
Thanks,
Pete
|
My consideration for this would be if the stud is in the same spot a stud in
the same plate standard version then it should be a plate modified.
If the stud is nowhere in the same spot of a stud in the standard part it should
be tile modified.
Like all jumpers should be tiles, modified.
Same as
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Oct 17, 2020 16:19 | | Subject: | Re: Parts Moved | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, par016 writes:
| | I know many people have said I should use remarks and drawer numbers, but not
everyone does this and I have my reasons for not doing it. It overcomplicates
my storage system and adds an extra step in packing orders that I really do not
think is necessary.
|
Totally agree, and not everyone will tell you that. There's 2 "schools" here
on Bricklink and - I'm in yours, catagory based sorting is definitely the
way to go if you ask me
As Stormchaser pointed out he really did all he could to make it manageable for
us. But I guess there should have been warnings on the main pages, because it's
true not everyone checks the forum. Unfortunately that's beyond the catmins
control...
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USA, Oklahoma
Netherlands, Utrecht
Canada, Ontario
Portugal
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Lithuania, Panevėžys
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
