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| | | Author: | ccroxton  | | Posted: | Aug 12, 2023 16:57 | | Subject: | Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 136 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| I am looking at set
There is no history of sales or offers. I do not have the box or instructions,
but I do have all the 21 sets that were included. What would be a reasonable
price?
Would however you determine the price hold for other collections as well, say
all Star Wars sets from a given year?
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| | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 12, 2023 17:08 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, ccroxton writes:
| | I am looking at set
There is no history of sales or offers. I do not have the box or instructions,
but I do have all the 21 sets that were included. What would be a reasonable
price?
Would however you determine the price hold for other collections as well, say
all Star Wars sets from a given year?
|
The price is going to be what the individual set are priced at used since there
was only one set made. See the note on the submission.
| | Note from submitter: One copy of this set was produced as a prize in a LEGO contest ending April 22nd, 2016. The set was packaged in the actual box shown in the catalog image. An online photo shows that the winner opened the set and built the models.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 12, 2023 17:34 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, macebobo writes:
| | […]
The price is going to be what the individual set are priced at used since there
was only one set made. See the note on the submission.
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I would say this is neither correct nor moral.
If you have all the sets and you’re only missing the big box, then it could be
New / Incomplete. The same way you can “bricklink” any set or minifigure (gather
all the necessary items) and sell the items in one lot, using the catalogue entry
for the set / minifigure as New.
So it would be New, not Used.
But, as only one was made and “distributed,” I find that… disingeneous / deceptive.
What you’d be selling is a bundle of sets, not The Unique Ultimate set.
All the SW sets from a given year / subtheme / whatever would be the same: not
a set (that doesn’t exist) but a bundle.
As for price… how should I know? I’m neither a seller nor a collector 
(Though, I may say that a real collector would already have many sets. People
buying other people’s complete collection to “start” collecting aren’t collectors.)
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 12, 2023 18:54 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Price Guide, macebobo writes:
| | […]
The price is going to be what the individual set are priced at used since there
was only one set made. See the note on the submission.
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I would say this is neither correct nor moral.
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I feel like you are misunderstanding what I was saying. The value of the sets
are only going to be worth what they are used, individually. I was not suggesting
that they list it under this listing as that would indeed not be honest. That
is why I was pointing out that they did not have this set since only one was
made and it was opened by the winner.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 13, 2023 07:54 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, macebobo writes:
| | In Price Guide, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Price Guide, macebobo writes:
| | […]
The price is going to be what the individual set are priced at used since there
was only one set made. See the note on the submission.
|
I would say this is neither correct nor moral.
|
I feel like you are misunderstanding what I was saying. The value of the sets
are only going to be worth what they are used, individually. I was not suggesting
that they list it under this listing as that would indeed not be honest. That
is why I was pointing out that they did not have this set since only one was
made and it was opened by the winner.
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OP never said anything about the condition of the sets they have.
Without considering the uniquenes / morality of selling them under the catalogue
entry, and taking for granted that this is not the unique copy of the set, that
it’s just the same inventory, then there’s no reason to think the sets/parts
are Used.
They may be sold as New if they are.
Compare with another set: you have all the parts New but they don’t come from
a unique box that you’d have bought, you bricklinked it. According to the rules
here, you can sell them all under the catalogue entry for the set and you can
sell them as New Incomplete (because the box would be missing or Used (because
you would necessarily have an opened one)).
And maybe it happens that all the copies that LEGO made of this set you bricklinked
have been opened and (at least partially) built. So there’s actually no “real”
copy of the set in the world that could be sold New… but yours is still sellable
as New, even if someboby brings proof that all the “real” copies are now Used.
That would be the same situation here: OP could have all the sets New/Sealed.
According to the catalogue, they are all the sets that came in the Ultimate set,
so they could be sold under this entry as New Incomplete.
But then comes the morality of using that entry and so it’s not the Ultimate
set New Incomplete… but it may still be all the composing sets, each New Sealed
(or New, or New Incomplete, or Used…).
That’s what I meant by “not correct”: unless it’s the unique copy of the set
(which it is not), there’s no reasons to say they can only be Used or should
be priced as Used.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | macebobo | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 21:23 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Price Guide, macebobo writes:
| | In Price Guide, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Price Guide, macebobo writes:
| | […]
The price is going to be what the individual set are priced at used since there
was only one set made. See the note on the submission.
|
I would say this is neither correct nor moral.
|
I feel like you are misunderstanding what I was saying. The value of the sets
are only going to be worth what they are used, individually. I was not suggesting
that they list it under this listing as that would indeed not be honest. That
is why I was pointing out that they did not have this set since only one was
made and it was opened by the winner.
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OP never said anything about the condition of the sets they have.
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First₁, I am not talking on behalf of SUPERPLASTICORP², I am not an psychic,
I’m not a mystic, I may in fact be a moose.
You are correct sir.
They are worth only the value of the sets individually. In appropriate condition
according to listing per the Bricklink TOS with seller TOS additions, without
containing prohibited words in descriptions.₃
| | Without considering the uniquenes / morality of selling them under the catalogue
entry, and taking for granted that this is not the unique copy of the set, that
it’s just the same inventory, then there’s no reason to think the sets/parts
are Used.
They may be sold as New if they are.
Compare with another set: you have all the parts New but they don’t come from
a unique box that you’d have bought, you bricklinked it. According to the rules
here, you can sell them all under the catalogue entry for the set and you can
sell them as New Incomplete (because the box would be missing or Used (because
you would necessarily have an opened one)).
And maybe it happens that all the copies that LEGO made of this set you bricklinked
have been opened and (at least partially) built. So there’s actually no “real”
copy of the set in the world that could be sold New… but yours is still sellable
as New, even if someboby brings proof that all the “real” copies are now Used.
That would be the same situation here: OP could have all the sets New/Sealed.
According to the catalogue, they are all the sets that came in the Ultimate set,
so they could be sold under this entry as New Incomplete.
But then comes the morality of using that entry and so it’s not the Ultimate
set New Incomplete… but it may still be all the composing sets, each New Sealed
(or New, or New Incomplete, or Used…).
That’s what I meant by “not correct”: unless it’s the unique copy of the set
(which it is not), there’s no reasons to say they can only be Used or should
be priced as Used.
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Again, this is all correct.
I sometimes forget that I have to post remembering that my opinions might be
taken as legal advice.₄
Therefore, OP you must do what your conscience tells you to do, but be ready
for and accept the consequences eagerly.
If it were me, I would list each box of the set separately following all the
TOS' applicable at the time of listing until said listing is removed by any
legitimate party or parties.⁵
-- John
---
₁ If you want an authoritative answer, contact the Help Desk.
You can do that here: https://www.bricklink.com/v3/help/contact.page or here:
https://helpdesk.bricklink.com/Main/ (you need to re-register with the same address
as on the main site)
The second site allows to follow your tickets (even if opened the other way).
² Sorry Mark 
₃ https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
₄ If you take any advice from the internet and use it blindly, you deserve what
you get. If you need legal advice contact a lawyer. These were painful, expensive
lessons to learn.
⁵ Made ya look. 
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Aug 13, 2023 00:08 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Price Guide, macebobo writes:
| | […]
The price is going to be what the individual set are priced at used since there
was only one set made. See the note on the submission.
|
I would say this is neither correct nor moral.
If you have all the sets and you’re only missing the big box, then it could be
New / Incomplete. The same way you can “bricklink” any set or minifigure (gather
all the necessary items) and sell the items in one lot, using the catalogue entry
for the set / minifigure as New.
So it would be New, not Used.
But, as only one was made and “distributed,” I find that… disingeneous / deceptive.
What you’d be selling is a bundle of sets, not The Unique Ultimate set.
All the SW sets from a given year / subtheme / whatever would be the same: not
a set (that doesn’t exist) but a bundle.
As for price… how should I know? I’m neither a seller nor a collector
(Though, I may say that a real collector would already have many sets. People
buying other people’s complete collection to “start” collecting aren’t collectors.)
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Is there a way to make it an item that cannot be sold through BrickLink? Since
the winner opened the box and there was only one produced, there would be no
other copies to sell.
Attempting to sell something that is missing the box and instructions, of which
there can be only one, that one does not have, just is not right to me.
If the OP did not win the contest, and therefore has neither the box nor instructions,
could that be considered fraudulent in any way?
Just questions that keep popping up whenever I try to figure out the logic of
this situation.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Aug 13, 2023 09:44 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, ghyde writes:
| | Is there a way to make it an item that cannot be sold through BrickLink?
|
Yes, there are ways to add things to the catalog without allowing sellers to
list them for sale (or buyers to buy them).
But there are plenty of limited edition/promotional items for sale on BrickLink,
so I see no reason why this one can't be sold here, too.
| | Since the winner opened the box and there was only one produced, there would be no
other copies to sell.
Attempting to sell something that is missing the box and instructions, of which
there can be only one, that one does not have, just is not right to me.
If the OP did not win the contest, and therefore has neither the box nor instructions,
could that be considered fraudulent in any way?
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Yes, that could be considered fraudulent, and some agree that it is not right.
However, others argue that as long as the condition of the item is properly labeled
according to the rules, there is no reason that it cannot be listed and sold.
In particular, the help pages are silent on the topic of whether or not "bricklinked"
sets are allowed: https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
Furthermore, past experience seems to indicate that it is okay to list a collection
of items under the entry for the whole collection instead of the individual items.
For example, consider the following used incomplete listing for the 10179 UCS
Millennium Falcon: https://store.bricklink.com/sosbricks?itemID=326097368
Applying the same logic to this case, I see no reason why the OP cannot list
their collection as an incomplete set.
However, this raises some moral issues. If the OP lists their collection as an
incomplete set, even in good faith, then some buyers may be inadvertently misled
into believing that they are purchasing the original prize set, despite the note
explaining the situation. Believing it to be something special, they may pay
more for it than for the individual sets, resulting in an unintended scam.
I guess what it really boils down to is where the responsibility lies:
On the seller, for listing everything honestly so that buyers are not misled
into believing they are getting something that they are not, or
On the buyer, for making sure that what they think they are buying is what they
are actually getting.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Aug 14, 2023 23:03 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Price Guide, ghyde writes:
| | Is there a way to make it an item that cannot be sold through BrickLink?
|
Yes, there are ways to add things to the catalog without allowing sellers to
list them for sale (or buyers to buy them).
But there are plenty of limited edition/promotional items for sale on BrickLink,
so I see no reason why this one can't be sold here, too.
| | Since the winner opened the box and there was only one produced, there would be no
other copies to sell.
Attempting to sell something that is missing the box and instructions, of which
there can be only one, that one does not have, just is not right to me.
If the OP did not win the contest, and therefore has neither the box nor instructions,
could that be considered fraudulent in any way?
|
Yes, that could be considered fraudulent, and some agree that it is not right.
However, others argue that as long as the condition of the item is properly labeled
according to the rules, there is no reason that it cannot be listed and sold.
In particular, the help pages are silent on the topic of whether or not "bricklinked"
sets are allowed: https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
Furthermore, past experience seems to indicate that it is okay to list a collection
of items under the entry for the whole collection instead of the individual items.
For example, consider the following used incomplete listing for the 10179 UCS
Millennium Falcon: https://store.bricklink.com/sosbricks?itemID=326097368
Applying the same logic to this case, I see no reason why the OP cannot list
their collection as an incomplete set.
However, this raises some moral issues. If the OP lists their collection as an
incomplete set, even in good faith, then some buyers may be inadvertently misled
into believing that they are purchasing the original prize set, despite the note
explaining the situation. Believing it to be something special, they may pay
more for it than for the individual sets, resulting in an unintended scam.
I guess what it really boils down to is where the responsibility lies:
On the seller, for listing everything honestly so that buyers are not misled
into believing they are getting something that they are not, or
On the buyer, for making sure that what they think they are buying is what they
are actually getting.
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I think it would be on both the buyer and the seller. One cannot list what one
does not have. It's like me saying I purchased a cardboard box of a particular
set from a store, but didn't actually purchase the cardboard box itself.
If I don't have the cardboard box the stores have the item shipped in, I
certainly can't claim to be able to sell that.
It really boils down to whether the seller properly determines what they actually
have and whether the buyer checks the order properly to check that what was described
is actually what was received.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Aug 19, 2023 16:23 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, ghyde writes:
| | I think it would be on both the buyer and the seller. One cannot list what one
does not have. It's like me saying I purchased a cardboard box of a particular
set from a store, but didn't actually purchase the cardboard box itself.
If I don't have the cardboard box the stores have the item shipped in, I
certainly can't claim to be able to sell that.
It really boils down to whether the seller properly determines what they actually
have and whether the buyer checks the order properly to check that what was described
is actually what was received.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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What makes a set a set: the box or the pieces?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ghyde | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 14:34 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Price Guide, ghyde writes:
| | I think it would be on both the buyer and the seller. One cannot list what one
does not have. It's like me saying I purchased a cardboard box of a particular
set from a store, but didn't actually purchase the cardboard box itself.
If I don't have the cardboard box the stores have the item shipped in, I
certainly can't claim to be able to sell that.
It really boils down to whether the seller properly determines what they actually
have and whether the buyer checks the order properly to check that what was described
is actually what was received.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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What makes a set a set: the box or the pieces?
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In the example I gave above, the fact that when TLG sells to a retail store,
that the sets are packaged in cardboard boxes.
For LEGO sets, stores usually order specific quantities, due to the cubing logic
that is used in making up a pallet of cardboard boxes for shipping, the sets
are packaged according to the quantities for the retail store that they will
put out on display.
I've seen this method in a retail store recently, whenever they are restocking
there are boxes for sets that have to go out on the store shelves, and they are
all have one set number per box. This makes sense for tracking and stocking logistics.
If a customer wants to buy an entire box of one set number then some stores will
sell to them. It's up to the individual retail store in Australia. I don't
know if the US or wherever you are does this differently, but I've seen US
based sellers and buyers post about buying the entire box of a particular set
number on BrickLink forums.
Hopefully you understand what I'm talking about here. If a retail store wants
to move stock sometimes they will accept requests from customers if they have
stock out back that they want to move, sometimes this involves talking to their
supervisor on duty or to the store's manager.
These are my own personal experiences. I've even been asked once or twice
if I had anything specific I was after. Even if it's only one set, they might
go out back and fetch one if they have it.
Cheers ...
ghyde
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Aug 23, 2023 19:59 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, ghyde writes:
| | In Price Guide, wildchicken13 writes:
| | What makes a set a set: the box or the pieces?
|
In the example I gave above, the fact that when TLG sells to a retail store,
that the sets are packaged in cardboard boxes.
For LEGO sets, stores usually order specific quantities, due to the cubing logic
that is used in making up a pallet of cardboard boxes for shipping, the sets
are packaged according to the quantities for the retail store that they will
put out on display.
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I'm not talking about the outer brown cardboard box that the LEGO Group uses
for shipping multiples of a set. I'm talking about the inner decorated box
that the individual set is packaged and sold in.
The question is whether a set is more than just its inventory. A seller can take
an incomplete set, order the missing parts on BrickLink, and sell it as complete.
But can they order all of the parts to build a set and then sell it as complete?
In some sense, a part is just an incomplete set.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 12, 2023 17:25 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, ccroxton writes:
| | I am looking at set
There is no history of sales or offers. I do not have the box or instructions,
but I do have all the 21 sets that were included. What would be a reasonable
price?
Would however you determine the price hold for other collections as well, say
all Star Wars sets from a given year?
|
Without the box it isn't really this set. It is just the collection of individual
sets.
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| | | | | Author: | Yo_Yo_Flamingo | | Posted: | Aug 12, 2023 23:14 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, ccroxton writes:
| | I am looking at set
There is no history of sales or offers. I do not have the box or instructions,
but I do have all the 21 sets that were included. What would be a reasonable
price?
Would however you determine the price hold for other collections as well, say
all Star Wars sets from a given year?
|
I hardly doubt anybody would buy that collection without the big box that makes
it unique. You're best off selling each set individually.
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| | | | | Author: | brickerking | | Posted: | Aug 15, 2023 01:12 | | Subject: | Re: Determining a price when there is no history? | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Price Guide | |
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| In Price Guide, ccroxton writes:
| | I am looking at set
There is no history of sales or offers. I do not have the box or instructions,
but I do have all the 21 sets that were included. What would be a reasonable
price?
Would however you determine the price hold for other collections as well, say
all Star Wars sets from a given year?
|
The OP has been given good advise, this collection is nothing without the promo
box. Just sell the sets individually. Also, If you look up each set, you'll
see there is a history of that set and how many have sold within 6 months. More
eyeballs will see the individual sets rather than one obscure promotional collection.
If we were talking about star wars sets it might be a good idea to list as the
collection, but not for city.
I believe you could also make a super lot or custom item with all the sets included
if you really wanted to bundle them all together, which I don't recommend.
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USA, Texas
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Australia, Queensland
United Kingdom, England
Canada, Alberta