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| | | Author: | re_collection  | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 03:29 | | Subject: | Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 137 times | | Topic: | Colors | | Status: | Open | |
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| Hi all,
I just finished to list some of these
and I have a doubt, why this color is called dark and not simply Trans-Blue like
the green one?
moreover this
shouldn't it be called Trans-Dark Purple?
Thanks
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 06:17 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, re_collection writes:
| | Hi all,
I just finished to list some of these
and I have a doubt, why this color is called dark and not simply Trans-Blue like
the green one?
moreover this
shouldn't it be called Trans-Dark Purple?
Thanks
|
Yep, very good point. That has been my pet peeve about the Bricklink catalog
for a long time 
"Trans Dark Blue"
- where's trans blue?
- the solid version of the colour was released some 20 years later, anachronism
much? So Lego created yellow, trans yellow, green, trans green, red, trans red,
blue, aaaaand.... no trans blue, but instead they decided to create the transparent
version of a colour they would release much much later, and trans blue never
came 
- why is trans red not trans dark red? Try finding that trans red part in a bag
of dark reds 
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| | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 06:23 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, Teup writes:
| | In Colors, re_collection writes:
| | Hi all,
I just finished to list some of these
and I have a doubt, why this color is called dark and not simply Trans-Blue like
the green one?
moreover this
shouldn't it be called Trans-Dark Purple?
Thanks
|
Yep, very good point. That has been my pet peeve about the Bricklink catalog
for a long time
"Trans Dark Blue"
- where's trans blue?
- the solid version of the colour was released some 20 years later, anachronism
much? So Lego created yellow, trans yellow, green, trans green, red, trans red,
blue, aaaaand.... no trans blue, but instead they decided to create the transparent
version of a colour they would release much much later, and trans blue never
came
- why is trans red not trans dark red? Try finding that trans red part in a bag
of dark reds
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Maybe it something about there being Trans-Light blue too, so people could tell
them apart more easily, color IDs in BL are 14 and 15, so created at the same
time:
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 06:38 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, Stellar writes:
| | […]
Maybe it something about there being Trans-Light blue too, so people could tell
them apart more easily, color IDs in BL are 14 and 15, so created at the same
time:
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Yes, and neither is closer to Blue than the other.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 07:42 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Colors, Stellar writes:
| | […]
Maybe it something about there being Trans-Light blue too, so people could tell
them apart more easily, color IDs in BL are 14 and 15, so created at the same
time:
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Yes, and neither is closer to Blue than the other.
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The one I'm really not so sure about is
That doesn't match "Medium Blue" (or any other solid blue) at all, and in
fact I'm not sure that it isn't lighter than
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 10:16 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
The one I'm really not so sure about is
That doesn't match "Medium Blue" (or any other solid blue) at all, and in
fact I'm not sure that it isn't lighter than
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Note: TLG’s name is Transparent Fluorescent Blue.
According to Ryan, TLB is #ADDDED, TMB is #A5CDF0, so TMB is slightly more blue
(2/255th) but less red (8/255th) and green (16/255).
That makes it a tiny bit bluer but overall a tiny bit darker if you consider
luminance: 78.41 vs. 80.39.
IOW, it’s two points on two very close spheres and knowing which is nearer the
centre is not very useful.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 10:27 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Colors, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
The one I'm really not so sure about is
That doesn't match "Medium Blue" (or any other solid blue) at all, and in
fact I'm not sure that it isn't lighter than
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Note: TLG’s name is Transparent Fluorescent Blue.
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Wouldn't that be Trans-Neon Blue in BL-speak? And in fact the color is (to
me, at least) reminiscent of older neon-blue signs.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 10:50 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, peregrinator writes:
| | […]
| | Note: TLG’s name is Transparent Fluorescent Blue.
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Wouldn't that be Trans-Neon Blue in BL-speak?
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Yes. And it glows to UV light too.
| | And in fact the color is (to
me, at least) reminiscent of older neon-blue signs.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 11:54 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Colors, Stellar writes:
| | […]
Maybe it something about there being Trans-Light blue too, so people could tell
them apart more easily, color IDs in BL are 14 and 15, so created at the same
time:
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Yes, and neither is closer to Blue than the other.
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Come on, your eyesight is better than that The first one is clearly blue and
the second one something like light azure.
Obviously, trans "dark" blue is the trans version of blue. Otherwise the whole
range of colours from the 80ies/90ies doesn't make sense - trans blue is
curiously missing then.
In fact, the funny thing is, I happen to know from experience they're related
- when I was casting epoxy bricks, I tried making blue by adding white and a
mix of ultramarine with some yellow. I got surprisingly close to blue. Then,
when I added a little bit of that to the epoxy without mixing in the white, I
actually got trans "dark" blue.
So yeah... I left out the white which technically makes it a dark blue, that
is true. But that is equally true for trans red and trans green. Those also appear
darker in their trans-versions. My (accidental) experiment does show that, ignoring
the lightness, these two colours have a very close relationship and similar hues,
probably equally similar as trans red and trans green have to their solid counterparts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 13:13 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, Teup writes:
| | […]
| | Yes, and neither is closer to Blue than the other.
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Come on, your eyesight is better than that The first one is clearly blue and
the second one something like light azure.
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But then you’re introducting another colour: light azure.
We were arguing about the historical hypothesis: there was only one blue and
two trans-blues in the 1980s (in LEGO System) and when the AFOLs began to communicate
worldwide (LUGNet, LDraw, BrickLink…).
| | Obviously, trans "dark" blue is the trans version of blue. Otherwise the whole
range of colours from the 80ies/90ies doesn't make sense
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LEGO colours don’t make sense.
LEGO parts don’t make sense.
LEGO names don’t make sense.
LEGO numbers don’t make sense.
LEGO doesn’t make sense!
We need to acknowledge that sometimes
| | - trans blue is
curiously missing then.
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It’s a language, a system. It’s a sublanguage/subsystem of the “real world”
colour names. It’s alive: what it describes has known many changes, some rather
big ones.
The people who created it (AFOLs in the 1990s?) didn’t try to organize it as
“the transparent colours are transparent versions of the solid colours,” they
had two trans-blues and, when talked about it, felt the need to say “trans-light
blue” and “trans-dark blue” because, in a conversation without a colour guide
attached, “trans-blue” was confusing.
It’s simpler to say “I need this part in trans-dark blue” than “I need this part
in trans-blue… no, the dark one, not the light one!”
We’re looking at an itinerary and you’re asking “why did we go through X? we
could have gone directly to Y!”¹
We can discuss about rearranging the roads, we can’t change how the roads were
first travelled.
(And we can’t always reroute the roads because older people would be lost )
(¹ Which reminds me of how Duck Dodgers planed to find Planet X…. )
| | In fact, the funny thing is, I happen to know from experience they're related
- when I was casting epoxy bricks, I tried making blue by adding white and a
mix of ultramarine with some yellow. I got surprisingly close to blue. Then,
when I added a little bit of that to the epoxy without mixing in the white, I
actually got trans "dark" blue.
So yeah... I left out the white which technically makes it a dark blue, that
is true. But that is equally true for trans red and trans green. Those also appear
darker in their trans-versions. My (accidental) experiment does show that, ignoring
the lightness, these two colours have a very close relationship and similar hues,
probably equally similar as trans red and trans green have to their solid counterparts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 17:32 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Colors, Teup writes:
| | […]
| | Yes, and neither is closer to Blue than the other.
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Come on, your eyesight is better than that The first one is clearly blue and
the second one something like light azure.
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But then you’re introducting another colour: light azure.
We were arguing about the historical hypothesis: there was only one blue and
two trans-blues in the 1980s (in LEGO System) and when the AFOLs began to communicate
worldwide (LUGNet, LDraw, BrickLink…).
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True, that's why I said "something like" IMO it makes most sense to consider
the classic colours having a solid and a trans variant, plus one odd one out
which is a light blue tinted glass colour besides completely clear glass. Funny,
I didn't actually know that Lego literally called it trans blue until after
I posted it and read Nita's reply about it. That's another indication,
but OK, since Lego's colour names are horrible (I saw it's "trans fire
yellow"??? lol) you are right we shouldn't count it as evidence
I would say it's enough that it's the same dye. The situation seems clear
to me. They made the archtypical classic colours: red, yellow, green, blue -
and gave them a transparent counterpart by leaving out the opaque white ink in
the plastic dye. You could them call them "Trans X" on the basis that they are
transparent counterparts of the solid colours, OR you could call them "Trans
dark X" on the basis that they left out the white ink, so they appear darker.
So either name them all "Trans blue/red/green/yellow" or "Trans dark blue/red/green/yellow".
In both cases, there's no reason to make blue the odd one out. The only difference
is the fact that other transparent blue colours exist - but none of those are
called "trans blue" and on the solid side of things, we see even more variants
of solid blues there, and that never stopped regular "blue" from being called
"blue". So whichever way you look at it, the logic is off
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 10:52 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| This is making an assumption that the transparent colours are transparent versions
of solid colours. If you don't make that assumption, but instead define an
independent naming scheme for the transparent colours, then there is no problem.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 12:11 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, yorbrick writes:
| | This is making an assumption that the transparent colours are transparent versions
of solid colours. If you don't make that assumption, but instead define an
independent naming scheme for the transparent colours, then there is no problem.
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It's unlikely since the other examples of matching colours would be hard
to call mere coincidence.
Still, ok, you could decide to disregard the elegant systematic and just go for
plainly describing the colour as accurately as possible (kind of analogous to
taking phonological spelling rather than etymological spelling, which is a valid
choice too), but in that case you would have to find a valid reason to call the
blue stack here the odd one out, which I think is hard:
(btw I'm just arguing for academic purposes Bricklink will have a very
very very long way to go before something like this would be the next most relevant
thing. Since they broke proper part listing last year, and now my partouts part
lists are all mixed up, I don't care if they'd call it "trans earth blue"
)
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| | | | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 13:26 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, Teup writes:
| | In Colors, re_collection writes:
| | Hi all,
I just finished to list some of these
and I have a doubt, why this color is called dark and not simply Trans-Blue like
the green one?
moreover this
shouldn't it be called Trans-Dark Purple?
Thanks
|
Yep, very good point. That has been my pet peeve about the Bricklink catalog
for a long time
"Trans Dark Blue"
- where's trans blue?
- the solid version of the colour was released some 20 years later, anachronism
much? So Lego created yellow, trans yellow, green, trans green, red, trans red,
blue, aaaaand.... no trans blue, but instead they decided to create the transparent
version of a colour they would release much much later, and trans blue never
came
- why is trans red not trans dark red? Try finding that trans red part in a bag
of dark reds
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I couldn't agree more. In my own personal naming system, I call it trans-blue.
David
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| | | | | Author: | re_collection | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 07:30 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| and what about these:
has its transparent version
but
looks more the transparent version of this
than this
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 10:15 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, re_collection writes:
| | and what about these:
has its transparent version
but
looks more the transparent version of this
than this
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But if you consider the numbers/dates again, 89 came way later than 51.
According to Ryan: 1997 for Purple/24, 2000 for Trans-Purple/51, and 2004 for
Dark-Purple/89.
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| | | | | Author: | cosmicray | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2021 10:40 | | Subject: | Re: Doubt about some transparent colors names | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Colors | |
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| In Colors, re_collection writes:
| | Hi all,
I just finished to list some of these
and I have a doubt, why this color is called dark and not simply Trans-Blue like
the green one?
|
BL's Trans-Dark Blue is TLG # 43, which TLG calls "Tr. Blue"
BL's Trans-Green is TLG # 48, which TLG calls "Tr. Green"
| | moreover this
shouldn't it be called Trans-Dark Purple?
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BL's Trans-Purple is TLG # 126, which TLG calls "Tr. Bright bluish violet"
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