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| | | Author: | elias3  | | Posted: | Sep 14, 2014 07:37 | | Subject: | Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests (Entry) | | Status: | Open | |
|
| Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
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| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Sep 14, 2014 16:58 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | elias3 | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 09:36 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
Hi Randy
...but why did I ask then that question because I didn't get the info about
the extra piece came with the plume wheel, If I know it I wouldn't ask it
so I did a request for me and all other not know members that it came original
with the plume wheel
Stefaan
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|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 10:23 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
Hi Randy
...but why did I ask then that question because I didn't get the info about
the extra piece came with the plume wheel, If I know it I wouldn't ask it
so I did a request for me and all other not know members that it came original
with the plume wheel
Stefaan
|
But this is not how the Counterpart area is to be used. If you want to know the
set originally came with a plume wheel, then try to get the original inventory
changed to have the wheel. However, it won't get changed because all of the
parts on it are not used in the build. Some of them are extra parts, and that
is exactly how the inventories are set up currently. This same method is used
in inventories with knives on sprue, keys on sprue, tools on sprue, etc. All
of the knives, keys, tools, etc. are not always used in the builds and are thus
relegated to the Extras section of the inventories.
Cheers,
Randy
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|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | paulvdb | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 10:37 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 17 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
Hi Randy
...but why did I ask then that question because I didn't get the info about
the extra piece came with the plume wheel, If I know it I wouldn't ask it
so I did a request for me and all other not know members that it came original
with the plume wheel
Stefaan
|
But this is not how the Counterpart area is to be used. If you want to know the
set originally came with a plume wheel, then try to get the original inventory
changed to have the wheel. However, it won't get changed because all of the
parts on it are not used in the build. Some of them are extra parts, and that
is exactly how the inventories are set up currently. This same method is used
in inventories with knives on sprue, keys on sprue, tools on sprue, etc. All
of the knives, keys, tools, etc. are not always used in the builds and are thus
relegated to the Extras section of the inventories.
Cheers,
Randy
|
That is indeed how it is always done with parts that come on a sprue. Except
flowers. I don't know what the reason is for that, but flowers are always
listed as sprue with 4 flowers even though not all of them are used in the build.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 10:58 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, paulvdb writes:
| | Except flowers. I don't know what the reason is for that, but flowers are always listed
as sprue with 4 flowers even though not all of them are used in the build.
|
Not always. I had this one changed:
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | viejos | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 11:01 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
Hi Randy
...but why did I ask then that question because I didn't get the info about
the extra piece came with the plume wheel, If I know it I wouldn't ask it
so I did a request for me and all other not know members that it came original
with the plume wheel
Stefaan
|
But this is not how the Counterpart area is to be used. If you want to know the
set originally came with a plume wheel, then try to get the original inventory
changed to have the wheel. However, it won't get changed because all of the
parts on it are not used in the build. Some of them are extra parts, and that
is exactly how the inventories are set up currently. This same method is used
in inventories with knives on sprue, keys on sprue, tools on sprue, etc. All
of the knives, keys, tools, etc. are not always used in the builds and are thus
relegated to the Extras section of the inventories.
Cheers,
Randy
|
I think the current policy on extras is very weak and needs to be revisited.
There is no good reason that complete sprues can't be listed as regular pieces.
OK, so then the argument is that sellers would have to come up with these "extras"
to sell a set as complete. But why not have a simple statement under the site's
selling policy that says something to the effect of:
Certain pieces that are not used in the building of the set (such as extra
items on sprues, extra stickers, and brick separators) are not required to be
included when listing a used set as "complete".
The point about stickers is a perfect example of how this works. Whole sticker
sheets are listed as "Regular" in every inventory, and common sense tells people
that the unused portion of the sheet is nothing but a (very) nice extra in used
sets. Why can't we extend this element of common sense to the whole inventory
system?
And look what the current system does to the catalog! This part is only listed
in 6 sets:
[p=6029c01]
But it should be listed in quite a few more:
http://www.bricklink.com/catalogItemIn.asp?itemType=P&itemNo=6029b&in=S&v=1&oV=Y&srt=2&srtAsc=A
I agree about not listing it as a counterpart - that is only a make-shift solution,
and it is not what the counterpart section is for.
Russell
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 11:27 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, viejos writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
Hi Randy
...but why did I ask then that question because I didn't get the info about
the extra piece came with the plume wheel, If I know it I wouldn't ask it
so I did a request for me and all other not know members that it came original
with the plume wheel
Stefaan
|
But this is not how the Counterpart area is to be used. If you want to know the
set originally came with a plume wheel, then try to get the original inventory
changed to have the wheel. However, it won't get changed because all of the
parts on it are not used in the build. Some of them are extra parts, and that
is exactly how the inventories are set up currently. This same method is used
in inventories with knives on sprue, keys on sprue, tools on sprue, etc. All
of the knives, keys, tools, etc. are not always used in the builds and are thus
relegated to the Extras section of the inventories.
Cheers,
Randy
|
I think the current policy on extras is very weak and needs to be revisited.
There is no good reason that complete sprues can't be listed as regular pieces.
OK, so then the argument is that sellers would have to come up with these "extras"
to sell a set as complete. But why not have a simple statement under the site's
selling policy that says something to the effect of:
Certain pieces that are not used in the building of the set (such as extra
items on sprues, extra stickers, and brick separators) are not required to be
included when listing a used set as "complete".
The point about stickers is a perfect example of how this works. Whole sticker
sheets are listed as "Regular" in every inventory, and common sense tells people
that the unused portion of the sheet is nothing but a (very) nice extra in used
sets. Why can't we extend this element of common sense to the whole inventory
system?
|
I really like the above solution. I think that would be perfect, because I like
having the set inventories include what originally came with the set (including
complete sprues). However, it isn't up to us what gets done about this. Maybe
the Inv Admins can talk about this again with the Cat Admins? Pretty please with
a cherry on top? 
Cheers,
Randy
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SimplyBricks | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 15:02 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, viejos writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
Hi Randy
...but why did I ask then that question because I didn't get the info about
the extra piece came with the plume wheel, If I know it I wouldn't ask it
so I did a request for me and all other not know members that it came original
with the plume wheel
Stefaan
|
But this is not how the Counterpart area is to be used. If you want to know the
set originally came with a plume wheel, then try to get the original inventory
changed to have the wheel. However, it won't get changed because all of the
parts on it are not used in the build. Some of them are extra parts, and that
is exactly how the inventories are set up currently. This same method is used
in inventories with knives on sprue, keys on sprue, tools on sprue, etc. All
of the knives, keys, tools, etc. are not always used in the builds and are thus
relegated to the Extras section of the inventories.
Cheers,
Randy
|
I think the current policy on extras is very weak and needs to be revisited.
There is no good reason that complete sprues can't be listed as regular pieces.
OK, so then the argument is that sellers would have to come up with these "extras"
to sell a set as complete. But why not have a simple statement under the site's
selling policy that says something to the effect of:
Certain pieces that are not used in the building of the set (such as extra
items on sprues, extra stickers, and brick separators) are not required to be
included when listing a used set as "complete".
The point about stickers is a perfect example of how this works. Whole sticker
sheets are listed as "Regular" in every inventory, and common sense tells people
that the unused portion of the sheet is nothing but a (very) nice extra in used
sets. Why can't we extend this element of common sense to the whole inventory
system?
|
I really like the above solution. I think that would be perfect, because I like
having the set inventories include what originally came with the set (including
complete sprues). However, it isn't up to us what gets done about this. Maybe
the Inv Admins can talk about this again with the Cat Admins? Pretty please with
a cherry on top?
Cheers,
Randy
|
The problem here is that you still have to identify WHAT items from that sprue
are actually used within the set else you either force the seller to have all
of the items (including the extras and thus going directly opposite the USED
selling policy which says extras don't have to be included in USED) or you
add a note to the end of the inventory which in most cases do not get read anyway.
Then what happens when you have an item on a sprue that is used on a figure?
you can not then include the whole sprue as regular because then you would be
double counting at least one of the items.
The policy at the moment is not ideal for everyone, I agree, but at least it
works for a majority of the time. I'm not closing the discussion on this,
but there are flaws to the above suggestion which would mean it's not a solution
for every scenario.
Emma
Senior Inventory Admin.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 15:31 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, SimplyBricks writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, viejos writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, randyf writes:
| | In Inventories Requests, elias3 writes:
| | Please make changes to the following inventory:
* Add 1 Part 6029c01 White Minifig, Plume Wheel Complete, Two Cattlehorns and Feathered Headdress (Counterpart)
Comments from Submitter:
see http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=853844
|
This is an improper use of the Counterpart. Counterparts are for things that
cannot be reversed at all or easily (parts that are hard to get apart once assembled,
stickered parts, etc.). The Counterpart area should not be used to add complete
sprue parts that are taken apart to make the build. The inventories you are referring
to in these requests are correct in the way they are already set up.
Regards,
Randy
|
Hi Randy
...but why did I ask then that question because I didn't get the info about
the extra piece came with the plume wheel, If I know it I wouldn't ask it
so I did a request for me and all other not know members that it came original
with the plume wheel
Stefaan
|
But this is not how the Counterpart area is to be used. If you want to know the
set originally came with a plume wheel, then try to get the original inventory
changed to have the wheel. However, it won't get changed because all of the
parts on it are not used in the build. Some of them are extra parts, and that
is exactly how the inventories are set up currently. This same method is used
in inventories with knives on sprue, keys on sprue, tools on sprue, etc. All
of the knives, keys, tools, etc. are not always used in the builds and are thus
relegated to the Extras section of the inventories.
Cheers,
Randy
|
I think the current policy on extras is very weak and needs to be revisited.
There is no good reason that complete sprues can't be listed as regular pieces.
OK, so then the argument is that sellers would have to come up with these "extras"
to sell a set as complete. But why not have a simple statement under the site's
selling policy that says something to the effect of:
Certain pieces that are not used in the building of the set (such as extra
items on sprues, extra stickers, and brick separators) are not required to be
included when listing a used set as "complete".
The point about stickers is a perfect example of how this works. Whole sticker
sheets are listed as "Regular" in every inventory, and common sense tells people
that the unused portion of the sheet is nothing but a (very) nice extra in used
sets. Why can't we extend this element of common sense to the whole inventory
system?
|
I really like the above solution. I think that would be perfect, because I like
having the set inventories include what originally came with the set (including
complete sprues). However, it isn't up to us what gets done about this. Maybe
the Inv Admins can talk about this again with the Cat Admins? Pretty please with
a cherry on top?
Cheers,
Randy
|
The problem here is that you still have to identify WHAT items from that sprue
are actually used within the set else you either force the seller to have all
of the items (including the extras and thus going directly opposite the USED
selling policy which says extras don't have to be included in USED) or you
add a note to the end of the inventory which in most cases do not get read anyway.
Then what happens when you have an item on a sprue that is used on a figure?
you can not then include the whole sprue as regular because then you would be
double counting at least one of the items.
The policy at the moment is not ideal for everyone, I agree, but at least it
works for a majority of the time. I'm not closing the discussion on this,
but there are flaws to the above suggestion which would mean it's not a solution
for every scenario.
Emma
Senior Inventory Admin.
|
Very good point about the minifigs, Emma. I had forgotten to include that in
my thought process regarding Russell's post.
Cheers,
Randy
|
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | viejos | | Posted: | Sep 15, 2014 23:02 | | Subject: | Re: Inventory Change Request for Set 6032-1 | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Inventories Requests | |
|
| In Inventories Requests, SimplyBricks writes:
| | The problem here is that you still have to identify WHAT items from that sprue
are actually used within the set else you either force the seller to have all
of the items (including the extras and thus going directly opposite the USED
selling policy which says extras don't have to be included in USED) or you
add a note to the end of the inventory which in most cases do not get read anyway.
Then what happens when you have an item on a sprue that is used on a figure?
you can not then include the whole sprue as regular because then you would be
double counting at least one of the items.
The policy at the moment is not ideal for everyone, I agree, but at least it
works for a majority of the time. I'm not closing the discussion on this,
but there are flaws to the above suggestion which would mean it's not a solution
for every scenario.
|
Take my example of how stickers are handled - the whole sheet is listed, yet
not all stickers are required for the set to be "complete". How do sellers know
which stickers need to be included? Well, they can look at the counterpart list,
but that won't give them every stickered part, especially the Sticker Over
Assembly parts that are often not permitted in the catalog.
Sellers could also build the set, or just study the instructions a bit. But however
they do it, they have been doing it successfully for years now, and I never hear
of problems over this issue. Not to mention that stickered parts are significantly
more valuable than parts from a sprue.
And the issue of minifigs. The root of the problem here is that figs are special
assemblies and their separate parts should be listed in the regular inventory
along with all the other parts. This is how TLG and Peeron do it, and they are
right. Whole figs can still be linked to sets the same way that counterparts
are.
Be that as it may, the current problem of "double listing" a particular piece
off a sprue is really of no consequence. I can't imagine a scenario where
any seller would think they would have to supply the buyer with 2 parts instead
of one. That's like worrying about empty sprues and empty sticker sheets
- they are both present in inventories, but it would be pedantic to try to somehow
show in the inventory itself that these are not required in used sets.
Instead, why not include a short sentence on the subject in the help pages? A
few precise words can replace a great deal of wrangling with the system.
To sum up - inventories need to be kept simple and as true to the original TLG
inventories as possible. This provides an *ideal* benchmark to which sellers
and buyers can aspire when completing their sets. And the sellers who I have
purchased from in the past are intelligent people who are capable of using inventories
as the *guide* they were intended to be. Just look through the older set listings
and see how some sellers handle shortcomings of the system.
And please do not underestimate the effect of notes placed at the foot of the
inventory. This is where much critical information about an inventory can be
stored, and it can bridge the gap in situations where the BL system has trouble.
A good example of this are sets with multiple versions of instructions. So please
keep using the notes!
Russell
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Belgium, Oost-Vlaanderen
USA, Ohio
Netherlands, Overijssel
United Kingdom, England