Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
Sorry to hear that happened, since the $ amount is so high, if you have proof
of deliver (and possibly signature), it may be best to get in contact with specialized
expertise to see if there are any paths that can be taken.
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
Thank you for reporting the issue, and sorry to hear about the dispute outcome.
We'll check the buyer account. One way of lowering a risk of similar situations
is to restrict orders being placed from new accounts in your store settings.
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
I do not see a Negative provided. Which account was this so we can all stop-list?
I have one myself that is in the middle phases. New Buyer, uses Instant Checkout,
seems they did it for my order and another sellers as that seller and I have
communicated. There is no way for sellers to mitigate this happening that I
am aware of.
For the one I'm dealing with, I can even confirm that the names align with
the buyers tax records for the address their order was shipped to. All that is
readily available with nearly every county in the USA. So if the CC or paypal
names are the same too, they should have zero ground for disputing it, unless
I did not ship the correct order, which did not occur but there is no way to
prove that anyway.
Sorry for your loss on the order, that would absolutely sting. Hope you have
better fortune coming your way.
Buyer was dartmckenzie. They even went so far as to mark the item as Received
- so I ended up giving positive feedback. This was over a month ago, so they
won't let me remove it.
It has been a hard lesson, and I am working on a few Terms and Processes changes
that should help minimize the odds of having something like this happen again.
Also filing some Fraud reports, and doing what I can to ATTEMPT to make things
a little difficult for the culprit. Fingers crossed.
In Selling, MidwestBrick writes:
In Selling, ATravelingMan writes:
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
I do not see a Negative provided. Which account was this so we can all stop-list?
I have one myself that is in the middle phases. New Buyer, uses Instant Checkout,
seems they did it for my order and another sellers as that seller and I have
communicated. There is no way for sellers to mitigate this happening that I
am aware of.
For the one I'm dealing with, I can even confirm that the names align with
the buyers tax records for the address their order was shipped to. All that is
readily available with nearly every county in the USA. So if the CC or paypal
names are the same too, they should have zero ground for disputing it, unless
I did not ship the correct order, which did not occur but there is no way to
prove that anyway.
Sorry for your loss on the order, that would absolutely sting. Hope you have
better fortune coming your way.
Buyer was dartmckenzie. They even went so far as to mark the item as Received
- so I ended up giving positive feedback. This was over a month ago, so they
won't let me remove it.
It has been a hard lesson, and I am working on a few Terms and Processes changes
that should help minimize the odds of having something like this happen again.
Also filing some Fraud reports, and doing what I can to ATTEMPT to make things
a little difficult for the culprit. Fingers crossed.
In Selling, MidwestBrick writes:
In Selling, ATravelingMan writes:
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
I do not see a Negative provided. Which account was this so we can all stop-list?
I have one myself that is in the middle phases. New Buyer, uses Instant Checkout,
seems they did it for my order and another sellers as that seller and I have
communicated. There is no way for sellers to mitigate this happening that I
am aware of.
For the one I'm dealing with, I can even confirm that the names align with
the buyers tax records for the address their order was shipped to. All that is
readily available with nearly every county in the USA. So if the CC or paypal
names are the same too, they should have zero ground for disputing it, unless
I did not ship the correct order, which did not occur but there is no way to
prove that anyway.
Sorry for your loss on the order, that would absolutely sting. Hope you have
better fortune coming your way.
Appears they are no longer registered with BL.
Here is the name of the culprit trying to pull a fast one on me and another user.
censkii
The "charge-back" on paypal hasn't completed yet, not sure what they
are waiting for other than possibly the buyer to make up another false excuse
(of which I have never seen one yet to begin with).
Anyway, thanks for following up on the request. Take care!
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
Its tough but its also no reason to discriminate against new buyers. Whilst I
agree with Anatasia's recommendation in part but not totality.
During this time I got hit for $906.00 with a charge back. Claiming false damage.
Sometimes the issue is not paypal itself. Paypal in my instance sided with me
and is now fighting with the credit card issuer who requested the chargeback.
But Paypal still withheld the funds and claim it could take another 75 days.
That wont financially hurt me specifically, but to some that is a catastrophic
financial hit.
So often its not actually paypal as it would seem.
Sorry you got hit for that much money. I was just finishing up a proposal for
this very question that I wanted to submit to bricklink for considerations in
ever changing circumstances. Based on various experiences.
In Fact I will finalize that tomorrow and get it in
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
Its tough but its also no reason to discriminate against new buyers. Whilst I
agree with Anatasia's recommendation in part but not totality.
During this time I got hit for $906.00 with a charge back. Claiming false damage.
Sometimes the issue is not paypal itself. Paypal in my instance sided with me
and is now fighting with the credit card issuer who requested the chargeback.
But Paypal still withheld the funds and claim it could take another 75 days.
That wont financially hurt me specifically, but to some that is a catastrophic
financial hit.
So often its not actually paypal as it would seem.
Sorry you got hit for that much money. I was just finishing up a proposal for
this very question that I wanted to submit to bricklink for considerations in
ever changing circumstances. Based on various experiences.
In Fact I will finalize that tomorrow and get it in
I got an incoming order yesterday worth € 1.550. That is in the $1800 range I
guess without convertible it first. I immediately saw a couple red flags:
- strange name for the BL account that actually sounds like a bitcoin scammer
(ABSALGORITHM);
- same for the email address she uses (is she really a 'she'?);
- of course no prior history and exactly 0 feedback;
- first order is apparently not a below $100 first try, but immediately all-in;
- shipping address is a so-called 'Postfach' or P.O. Box so no physical
address on file;
- living in northern Germany requesting to pay through PayPal instead of wiring
the money.
I told 'her' thanks for your order but before proceeding following needs
to be changed (not a wish but a demand):
- physical address to begin with;
- IBAN bank transfer (non refundable) as payment method of choice.
Let me know if you are willing to meet my requirements. I am currently waiting
for an answer. If things eventually check out I will complete the transaction
of course, but for now let's say I have my reservations.
Three months after a very large order was delivered, the cardholder filed a fraud
dispute. Long story short - I lost, and am out the money.
My volume isn't that high, and Stripe gave me 1 day to have the money in
my account. Needless to say, it hurt pretty bad. Bricklink is sadly no help,
they don't even seem interested in closing that buyer's account.
What do you do in your stores to mitigate something like this? It was a brutal
way to start the year to say the least.
I didn't actually answer your question yesterday. I will tell you what I
do.
1. I provide both tracking and insurance in EVERY shipment, after finding a suitable
shipping partner here in Canada,
2. Tracking does not cost me anything as its imbedded into the shipping costs
I must pay regardless. Insurance I pay $1.75 per $100.00 Canadian Dollars. I
provide $300.00 of insurance.
A. Insurance in this instance covers damage by shippers used by the brokerage,
B. Porch pirate theft,
C. Payment fraud
3. We all love to get a juicy 4 figure order. I get it. But I try and keep new
or suspect buyers under $300.00. There are also suspect Sellers, let call a spade
a spade here for a moment.
4. I eat the $5.00 insurance charge because I have factored that into pricing
already. I dont need to double dip so to speak.
5. Buyers also find the tracking and insurance attractive, because 99.99% of
buyers are honest. I personally think they are more honest than some sellers
who misrepresent the quality of its product only to blame shippers or live in
denial and silence after the event.
During our last 400 transactions we have made 2 claims, both were settled for
$300.00 each within days. (1) theft from a ladies front door (2) damage due to
a spillage in the back of a delivery truck.
Obviously I am about to have another once paypal sorts out its refusal to the
financial institution. I sense the bureaucratic behind this will ultimately be
the funds not returned to me.But 300 of that 906 will be recoverable. Still not
good.
But in 400 transactions over more than one platform the average order value was
around $160.00, well under the $300.00 threshold. So often given $5.00 has been
included into the pricing structure yet often only $2.50 was actually paid in
insurance cost the overall exposure to loss was mitigated. Basically over the
transactional period we actually made a profit of several hundred dollars when
considering a $606.00 loss......If that makes sense.
But what is a new buyer? Someone who has never completed a transaction without
feedback. Or someone who has an account less than a month old.
The fraud against us was done using an account that was 2 years old, with no
feedback and no transaction history. But the numbers don't lie its still
1:400
I sincerely mean Anatasia no disrespect but to simply state a Bricklink policy
would be an option to disallow new buyers from a purchase in my view is simply
wrong for a number of reasons:
1. Lego has been around since Jesus played fullback for Jerusalem,
2. Lego is an ever constant evolving useage and collectable product for every
single age and gender group,
3. Every year new enthusiasts begin collections as they come of age and earn
their own incomes,
4. Every year people's circumstances change and they either buy more,
or sell off. Often involving themed products like LOTR, Star Wars and so forth
5. a 5 year old could not afford cool Star Wars sets, but they are now 25 with
their own incomes and circumstances. Also "new" buyers.
I think Bricklink could do a little more during there software upgrades and "categorize"
new buyers like they do shady sellers and like shipping methods are done. Sure
we have a feedback system, but that is reactive to a transaction not proactive.
Consider rather than "excluding new buyers" have options for sellers
in that existing blanket exclusion:
1. Complete exclusion for any buyer without feedback,
2. Exclusion for accounts less than 3 months old (or whatever period range chosen
by the seller),
3. Exclusions for accounts with limited feedback (0-3)(3-7)(7-10) and so forth,
4. Minimum and maximum transaction values for individuals that fall into Para
3 above,
5. This list can be added to, but all under one macro to avoid confusions,
6. The contents of the menu provides various options to various demographics
& geographic or buyers & sellers alike.
But to just be provided a single option of snuffing out "new buyers"
is in my view inadvertent discrimination, shallow thinking at a corporate level
and not consistent with the values of the lego community as a whole.
We can all do better, but we need the tools to be better. For now I will just
have to accept a loss 1:400 times. But that does not protect lower volume Sellers
does it?
USA, California
Canada, Ontario
Netherlands, Noord-Brabant