I've had some fairly inconsistent experiences with attempts to buy from EU
based sellers delivering to me in the UK, so couple of questions:
1)
Presumably EU based sellers already include 20% VAT in their online list prices,
so that the total price should be reduced by 20% when sending to UK, or are the
prices displayed automatically adjusted when I'm browsing the catalogue from
the UK?
2)
Different exporters have told me different things. One tried to add further VAT
to their order total, so that I'd be paying VAT twice in the EU and in the
UK. They even said that they were collecting the VAT on behalf of Bricklink.
I thought Bricklink issued a seperate bill for VAT that was paid directly to
them?
3)
Even when VAT is paid to Bricklink and is marked on the package you still get
shippers trying to collect VAT (and charge extra fees for doing so) before delivering
in the UK. The UK guidance is that VAT should be charged by the delivery company
not paid to the seller directly [https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty]
4)
I've been quoted some outrageous shipping fees from Europe eg €25 for a set
of transfers weighing what maybe 2 grammes?! Would be good if Bricklink regulated
this.
5)
Everyone seems to be in ignorance of the new regs banning hidden fees in online
transactions under the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024. In
one transaction that I didn't proceed with, I ordered goods worth €30. Then
there was €25 plus €2 shipping and handling (understand this may have to be charged),
then a 6% Paypal fee on that total, then the seller wanted to collect directly
20% "for your local VAT" so making a grand total of €79 for €32 worth
of goods!
Finally - don't blame me. I DID NOT vote for Brexit!!
I've had some fairly inconsistent experiences with attempts to buy from EU
based sellers delivering to me in the UK, so couple of questions:
1)
Presumably EU based sellers already include 20% VAT in their online list prices,
so that the total price should be reduced by 20% when sending to UK, or are the
prices displayed automatically adjusted when I'm browsing the catalogue from
the UK?
No. It depends if you are buying from a VAT registered business.
2)
Different exporters have told me different things. One tried to add further VAT
to their order total, so that I'd be paying VAT twice in the EU and in the
UK. They even said that they were collecting the VAT on behalf of Bricklink.
I thought Bricklink issued a seperate bill for VAT that was paid directly to
them?
Bricklink collects UK VAT on orders under £135, they have to by law.
3)
Even when VAT is paid to Bricklink and is marked on the package you still get
shippers trying to collect VAT (and charge extra fees for doing so) before delivering
in the UK. The UK guidance is that VAT should be charged by the delivery company
not paid to the seller directly [https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty]
You don't pay VAT to the seller, you pay it to the marketplace.
4)
I've been quoted some outrageous shipping fees from Europe eg €25 for a set
of transfers weighing what maybe 2 grammes?! Would be good if Bricklink regulated
this.
You can choose to buy from a different seller. If a seller only uses one type
of international shipping then it might not matter how thick the item is or how
little it weighs. Tracked international postage is expensive these days especially
if a seller only uses one courier. Shop around.
5)
Everyone seems to be in ignorance of the new regs banning hidden fees in online
transactions under the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024. In
one transaction that I didn't proceed with, I ordered goods worth €30. Then
there was €25 plus €2 shipping and handling (understand this may have to be charged),
then a 6% Paypal fee on that total, then the seller wanted to collect directly
20% "for your local VAT" so making a grand total of €79 for €32 worth
of goods!
Most sellers will outline their charges in their terms. The seller did not want
to charge UK VAT, bricklink as the marketplace has to. This is international
law.
Thanks for the response but is the exporter supposed to add VAT to their invoice
on behalf of Bricklink? I thought that Bricklink calculated and collected it
seperately
Thanks for the response but is the exporter supposed to add VAT to their invoice
on behalf of Bricklink? I thought that Bricklink calculated and collected it
seperately
Bricklink calculate it and add it to the seller's invoice. A single payment
is collected including the VAT. Paypal then pass on the VAT element to bricklink
(in reality, their third party processor). VAT will not be collected separately
by bricklink. This is only for orders under £135.
Just to be obtuse - does that mean that the seller's invoice includes the
VAT which I pay directly to them, and they pass on to Bricklink who in turn pass
it on to HMRC?
I ask because I had thought that Bricklink issued a separate VAT invoice that
is paid direct to Bricklink not the seller?
In the scenario I gave an example of there is potential for paying VAT 4 times!:
The Dutch commercial seller is VAT registered in the EU so their prices already
include EU VAT at 20%. They did not offer to deduct this from the import price.
Instead they added another 20% to the invoice without any detail.
Bricklink then charge another 20% on imports with an invoice to the buyer
Then finally there are couriers that don't understand that UK VAT has already
been collected by Bricklink and still attempt to charge another 20% plus an admin
fee for the privilege
Theoretically, you can try and recover overpaid VAT to couriers through an HMRC
form. Good luck waiting 8-10 months for that to be processed.
Just to be obtuse - does that mean that the seller's invoice includes the
VAT which I pay directly to them, and they pass on to Bricklink who in turn pass
it on to HMRC?
PayPal takes out the VAT that BrickLink needs to collect for orders below £135
and pays it to BrickLink so they can remit it to the proper authorities. The
seller never sees that money.
I ask because I had thought that Bricklink issued a separate VAT invoice that
is paid direct to Bricklink not the seller?
No it's added by BrickLink to the invoice.
In the scenario I gave an example of there is potential for paying VAT 4 times!:
The Dutch commercial seller is VAT registered in the EU so their prices already
include EU VAT at 20%. They did not offer to deduct this from the import price.
As a non EU buyer you see prices without VAT afaik.
Instead they added another 20% to the invoice without any detail.
No idea where this comes from unless we see the invoice.
Bricklink then charge another 20% on imports with an invoice to the buyer
Only for orders under £135 like Yorbrick said
Then finally there are couriers that don't understand that UK VAT has already
been collected by Bricklink and still attempt to charge another 20% plus an admin
fee for the privilege
Possibly because the seller did not provide the right documents, but I don't
sell to the UK so I'm not sure how it works.
Theoretically, you can try and recover overpaid VAT to couriers through an HMRC
form. Good luck waiting 8-10 months for that to be processed.
Thanks again but I remain confused by the suggestion that PayPal adds the UK
VAT
As I understand it the EU seller should not be adding UK VAT to their invoice
because this is going to be collected by someone else eventually, either Bricklink/Paypal/or
the UK couriers?
I also don't see any sign of commercial VAT registered EU sellers deducting
VAT from their invoices before the ridiculous roundabout continues of the VAT
being recharged on import to the UK
Thank God we are dealing with plastic bricks, if it was booze or fags there would
also be excise duty to pay!!
Thanks again but I remain confused by the suggestion that PayPal adds the UK
VAT
Nobody has suggested that. Bricklink adds it (if the order is under £135) and
it is collected at the time of payment for the order, usually by PayPal.
As I understand it the EU seller should not be adding UK VAT to their invoice
because this is going to be collected by someone else eventually, either Bricklink/Paypal/or
the UK couriers?
They are not.
I also don't see any sign of commercial VAT registered EU sellers deducting
VAT from their invoices before the ridiculous roundabout continues of the VAT
being recharged on import to the UK
If the foreign seller is VAT registered then the prices you see are ex-VAT.
Thank God we are dealing with plastic bricks, if it was booze or fags there would
also be excise duty to pay!!
Just to be obtuse - does that mean that the seller's invoice includes the
VAT which I pay directly to them, and they pass on to Bricklink who in turn pass
it on to HMRC? […]
Hi, let’s try another approach with a complete example:
— You’re buying from a VAT-registered Dutch seller.
— You only see their prices without their VAT, it’s automatic.
— You order, the amount is £100.
— They fill an “invoice” (which is not legally an invoice but is called that
way here), with their £100.
— Automatically, the website adds a line with £20 for UK VAT on that “invoice.”
— You pay £120 through PayPal Onsite or Stripe.
— £20 are automatically redirected to BrickLink(’s partner) as a “partner fee.”
— BL will give the £20 to HMRC.
— BL gives you and the seller a proper invoice showing that the UK VAT was paid.
— The seller puts that invoice and BL’s UK-VAT number on the package.
— You receive the package, you play— er do grown-up things with your LEGO, you’re
happy
The only time when you risk paying VAT twice is if something wrong happens with
the documentation and HMRC thinks it wasn’t paid. AFAIK, that doesn’t happen
frequently in UK.
There’s other possible situations but I don’t want to complicate this example.
The important thing is that you only pay what you have to pay (when everything
works right).
I don't think all EU sellers are following the same protocol though and I
understand it must be extremely confusing for them to the point where the refuse
to supply to the UK
Hidden fees and inflated postage remain an issue for another novrl@
I don't think all EU sellers are following the same protocol though and I
understand it must be extremely confusing for them to the point where the refuse
to supply to the UK
Sellers don’t have a choice.
If they are VAT-registered in EU and gave their VAT number to BL, then the website
will automatically remove the VAT for non-EU buyers / users.
They don’t re-add EU-VAT.
It’s BL that adds UK-VAT and that mechanism is also automatic and can’t be bypassed.
Now, there’s sellers who are not VAT-registered, and you’ll see the same prices
as I will from France, simply because there’s no EU-VAT to remove. But you’ll
pay the 20% UK-VAT on those prices because that’s how import VAT works.
Hidden fees and inflated postage remain an issue for another novrl@
The double counting I was concerned about was the EU seller sending me a quote
with 20% added before Bricklink charged another 20% for UK VAT
I browsed the seller's site when I was in France. They are VAT registered
in the EU. The prices displayed were the same when I viewed them in France as
when I viewed them in the UK, rather than being "VAT free" for the potential
UK buyer. Double checked this using a VPN
So although everything should be automated with prices tailored to the buyer's
locationI'm not sure it's all working as it should and there remain some
wildcards taking advantage of the confusion to charge VAT and handling and PayPal
fees, before Bricklink even get involved in applying the correct VAT rules
The double counting I was concerned about was the EU seller sending me a quote
with 20% added before Bricklink charged another 20% for UK VAT
The quote would have had the UK VAT added by BL.
I browsed the seller's site when I was in France. They are VAT registered
in the EU. The prices displayed were the same when I viewed them in France as
when I viewed them in the UK, rather than being "VAT free" for the potential
UK buyer. Double checked this using a VPN
Hmm, that’s weird. Were you logged in? Because BL uses your postal address
for prices. The IP/network is only used when you’re not logged in.
So although everything should be automated with prices tailored to the buyer's
locationI'm not sure it's all working as it should and there remain some
wildcards taking advantage of the confusion to charge VAT and handling and PayPal
fees, before Bricklink even get involved in applying the correct VAT rules
United Kingdom, England
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France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine