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| | | Author: | Heartbricker  | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 11:11 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 128 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Discarded | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | Author: | Leftoverbricks | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 11:47 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 79 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
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I understand what your problem is, but wouldn't it be more effective or efficient
to limit the order amount for first time buyers to a certain amount, say € 50?
Anyway: I don't think your suggestion will gather much support. A buyer has
to start somewhere.
So basically I understand your frustration but I'm also afraid that there's
no easy fix for it.
And for the very reason you mention: I don't sell sealed sets which are over
€ 30. The hassle to get it packaged fool proof to survive international transport....
not my cup of tea.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Heartbricker | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 11:53 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Leftoverbricks writes:
| | In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
I understand what your problem is, but wouldn't it be more effective or efficient
to limit the order amount for first time buyers to a certain amount, say € 50?
Anyway: I don't think your suggestion will gather much support. A buyer has
to start somewhere.
So basically I understand your frustration but I'm also afraid that there's
no easy fix for it.
And for the very reason you mention: I don't sell sealed sets which are over
€ 30. The hassle to get it packaged fool proof to survive international transport....
not my cup of tea.
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Is there a way to limit first time buyer's purchase amount currently?
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| | | | | Author: | manganschlamm | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 11:54 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
This is so complicated that it will create a major inconvenience to buyers and
will be huge mess to figure out. I would strongly object this.
There is a much simpler way to prevent fraud: They must use Paypal with full
protection to purchase from your store. Or you choose to only sell anything to
buyers with minimum of 10 (or any number of your choosing) positive feedback
rating.
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| | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 11:57 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
I never really liked that feature to disallow some buyers based on feedback,
and I don't understand why it exists. It's not solving a problem, it's
simply moving the problem of fraudulous buyers to other sellers that don't
use the setting. Also, from Bricklink's perspective, a website that has a
better shopping experience for experienced members than for those who just signed
up isn't very good website design in my opinion.
Such things aren't only unpopular with new buyers. Also with sellers like
me. I need buyers, and it is in my interest that they find a website that is
fully functional and that they are enthusiastic about it. If I would sign up
somewhere I would like to get good vibes, and "we don't trust you enough
yet so this is off limits" to me isn't sending a customer friendly message.
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:14 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | I never really liked that feature to disallow some buyers based on feedback,
and I don't understand why it exists. It's not solving a problem, it's
simply moving the problem of fraudulous buyers to other sellers that don't
use the setting. Also, from Bricklink's perspective, a website that has a
better shopping experience for experienced members than for those who just signed
up isn't very good website design in my opinion.
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You can only block a buyer with negative overall feedback though, so someone
that has placed at least one order and not paid for at least as many as they
have paid for (and got feedback). If they have two negatives and two positives,
they cannot be blocked from buying using the setting.
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| | | | | Author: | Miro78 | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:04 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
I understand your concern and I think the best way to handle this would be to
allow individual stores to choose this as an option as opposed to a site wide
mandate. This way you can choose to set your restrictions to your heart's
content and for your peace of mind and allowing others to take the risk if they
choose to do so. The best way to implement this would be so that your listings
won't even show up to those buyers to begin with should their feedback threshold
not meet your criteria settings. Additionally it would be useful if you could
choose various options for your threshold, not just feedback, but also which
types of sets (perhaps select them invidividualy or broadly based on price point,
popularity, risk, etc).
Miro
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| | | | | | | Author: | Heartbricker | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:06 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Miro78 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
I understand your concern and I think the best way to handle this would be to
allow individual stores to choose this as an option as opposed to a site wide
mandate. This way you can choose to set your restrictions to your heart's
content and for your peace of mind and allowing others to take the risk if they
choose to do so. The best way to implement this would be so that your listings
won't even show up to those buyers to begin with should their feedback threshold
not meet your criteria settings. Additionally it would be useful if you could
choose various options for your threshold, not just feedback, but also which
types of sets (perhaps select them invidividualy or broadly based on price point,
popularity, risk, etc).
Miro
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I completely agree and that is why i specifically said that the seller will have
to opt in on their own discretion.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Miro78 | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:11 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | In Suggestions, Miro78 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
I understand your concern and I think the best way to handle this would be to
allow individual stores to choose this as an option as opposed to a site wide
mandate. This way you can choose to set your restrictions to your heart's
content and for your peace of mind and allowing others to take the risk if they
choose to do so. The best way to implement this would be so that your listings
won't even show up to those buyers to begin with should their feedback threshold
not meet your criteria settings. Additionally it would be useful if you could
choose various options for your threshold, not just feedback, but also which
types of sets (perhaps select them invidividualy or broadly based on price point,
popularity, risk, etc).
Miro
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I completely agree and that is why i specifically said that the seller will have
to opt in on their own discretion.
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Perhaps I missed that bit of information.
Important part of this feature would need to be where the buyer is not aware
of the inventory in your store that they are not permitted to purchase, otherwise
this will be off-putting to the buyer and could possibly cause buyers to turn
away from this marketplace and/or your store.
Miro
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| | | | | Author: | Heartbricker | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:11 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
I really respect the opinions of the people who replied and decided to withdraw
this suggestion as it may not have been presented from a positive spirit and
more from an anger and frustration about being defrauded.
My apologies.
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:11 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| If they are intent on scamming, won't they just place five cheap orders to
build up enough feedback to scam?
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| | | | | | | Author: | Miro78 | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:18 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | If they are intent on scamming, won't they just place five cheap orders to
build up enough feedback to scam?
|
I thought about that, but if it's up to the store to set the feedback threshold,
they won't know how many feedbacks they would need. Also if the inventory
does not even show up in listings until said threshold is met, they won't
know to target that particular store with the "hidden" threshold.
I understand the frustration of the seller that gets scammed and PayPal is not
siding on the seller's side. Since Bricklink does not want to get involved
with the monetary transaction or protecting the seller in any way, this is not
a bad idea of a feature as long as it's executed in a way where the buyer
is not made aware of it. If the buyer does not see a listing for that store,
than they can't even get upset. There will always be those stores that will
want to take the risk and sell to 0 feedback or whatever feedback buyer, so there
will always be inventory for them. Ultimately supply/demand comes into play.
I see this as no harm no foul sort of a strategy given the situation with PayPal
siding heavily in buyer's favor.
Miro
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:21 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 24 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Presumably any items that get hidden behind a minimum feedback would also need
to be hidden from anyone not logged in too.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Miro78 | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:31 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
| | Presumably any items that get hidden behind a minimum feedback would also need
to be hidden from anyone not logged in too.
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Yes, that would have to be case then. Perhaps those wanting this feature would
just need to accept that and live with it.
Miro
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| | | | | Author: | bje | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:22 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Some of the best buyers I've had the privilege of welcoming in my store have
been zero/low feedback users. So while I understand the rationale for this and
of course it being elective, I personally think that all users have to start
somewhere, so it is maybe not in the best interest of stores to needlessly limit
the buying experience.
Laws are not the same everywhere, so I guess we are fortunate that no order is
legally binding until I as the seller have acknowledged it. If I am really uncomfortable
with the buyer or what he/she is ordering, I reserve the right to cancel the
order, demand the buyer use a shipping method with insurance and tracking or
to demand another form of payment. If the buyer cannot agree, that is a red flag
and it will strengthen my reasons for cancelling.
For fraudulent chargebacks, use the NPB process and negative feedback, else such
buyers just get a free pass to go do the same thing to the next seller. We cannot
prevent fraudsters and scammers anyway. And in my personal opinion, the feedback
system is not a fair guide to good or bad users, which is why I hardly ever look
at it. So for me personally, this would not be a help at all and might just make
some buyers wary of placing orders in the first case. Some users might feel different,
but the idea that the site should limit the buying experience beyond already
having minimum buys, minimum lot averages, NPB and the one-sided right to cancel
for sellers, does not sit well.
In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
| | This will be unpopular with new buyers but may have support from sellers who
have been defrauded.
We instituted a measure to protect from fraud (based on being defrauded in the
past) where we require buyers to have a minimum of 5-10 positive feedbacks in
order to purchase certain high priced sets.
Currently, we can only put that in the item's description and buyers ignore
it and place the orders anyway which creates a sticky situation.
So the suggestion is:
Add a feature to individual listings that will prevent buyers with feedback rating
under X to purchase a certain item.
I can see merit to limiting X to 10 so sellers don't demand a buyer has 10,000
to be able to purchase items.
We allow 0 and low FB rated buyers to buy 99.99% of listings in our shop but
have been burnt a couple of times by 0 FB buyers who bought sealed sets in mint
condition and claimed they were opened and used and returned us boxes with non-LEGO
items in one instance and ransacked set on another purchase- PayPal obviously
sided with the buyers both times.
I'm hoping this will be a measure that would prevent this type of fraud and
will be optional to allow sellers the chance to opt out.
|
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| | | | | | | Author: | Miro78 | | Posted: | Jul 13, 2020 12:51 | | Subject: | Re: Add feature of minimum FB for listings. | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, bje writes:
| | Some of the best buyers I've had the privilege of welcoming in my store have
been zero/low feedback users. So while I understand the rationale for this and
of course it being elective, I personally think that all users have to start
somewhere, so it is maybe not in the best interest of stores to needlessly limit
the buying experience.
Laws are not the same everywhere, so I guess we are fortunate that no order is
legally binding until I as the seller have acknowledged it. If I am really uncomfortable
with the buyer or what he/she is ordering, I reserve the right to cancel the
order, demand the buyer use a shipping method with insurance and tracking or
to demand another form of payment. If the buyer cannot agree, that is a red flag
and it will strengthen my reasons for cancelling.
For fraudulent chargebacks, use the NPB process and negative feedback, else such
buyers just get a free pass to go do the same thing to the next seller. We cannot
prevent fraudsters and scammers anyway. And in my personal opinion, the feedback
system is not a fair guide to good or bad users, which is why I hardly ever look
at it. So for me personally, this would not be a help at all and might just make
some buyers wary of placing orders in the first case. Some users might feel different,
but the idea that the site should limit the buying experience beyond already
having minimum buys, minimum lot averages, NPB and the one-sided right to cancel
for sellers, does not sit well.
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I have no stake in this as I stopped selling parts and sets long ago, but I don't
see the harm this would cause if it's executed properly (meaning invisibly).
It's no different of a feature than minimum buy, bulk lot price limits, or
restricting countries that can purchase from you, and if it's opt in, than
the sellers that don't want to participate will have less competition from
other sellers. Buyers will be oblivious to it, so they won't know.
It's no different than how Bricklink stores operate now. Bricklink is a marketplace
with thousands of stores with their unique inventories and rules (minimum buys,
lot limits, speed/efficiency of operation, etc). Just another tool. The question
really becomes, is there enough interest from sellers for this feature for Briclink
to be bothered with implementing and what other coding/database issues this would
cause (Price Guide listing and sales data).
Miro
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USA, New Jersey
Netherlands, Overijssel
Germany, Nordrhein-Westfalen
United Kingdom, England
South Africa, Western Cape