BL should stop showing estimated shipping and handling charges, as this gives
a false impression of what they are. For example, I almost placed an order at
this store. But reading through the terms, there are extra handling fees, extra
paypal fees and different shipping costs to those estimated and shown here.
Showing an estimated value gives a false impression, and may lead to a (supposedly
legally binding) order being placed only to find out the actual costs are significantly
higher than those estimated.
Of course, this could be completely removed by making the orders non-binding
until the seller has disclosed all costs and the buyer has a chance to agree
to them. But in the meantime, stop misleading buyers with incorrect estimated
values.
BL should stop showing estimated shipping and handling charges, as this gives
a false impression of what they are. For example, I almost placed an order at
this store. But reading through the terms, there are extra handling fees, extra
paypal fees and different shipping costs to those estimated and shown here.
Showing an estimated value gives a false impression, and may lead to a (supposedly
legally binding) order being placed only to find out the actual costs are significantly
higher than those estimated.
Of course, this could be completely removed by making the orders non-binding
until the seller has disclosed all costs and the buyer has a chance to agree
to them. But in the meantime, stop misleading buyers with incorrect estimated
values.
I think the estimated cost is easier than reading the terms and doing a lot of
calculations.
But I agree that it could be misleading and a risk of too many hidden fees added.
Making it non-binding is pretty much the same as a quote request, with the exception
that the items are locked.
Perhaps it's a better idea to keep the estimated cost, but force the seller
to give the buyer the option to cancel if the final cost deviates by more than,
lets say 10% ?
Sure the estimated cost is easier to read, but it is meaningless when a seller
can charge what they like. They might have stated extra costs, in a simplistic
or complex way, in their terms so you have to read them. Showing an estimated
cost that ignores the terms is highly misleading.
Sure the estimated cost is easier to read, but it is meaningless when a seller
can charge what they like. They might have stated extra costs, in a simplistic
or complex way, in their terms so you have to read them. Showing an estimated
cost that ignores the terms is highly misleading.
I really agree with you on the problem, but I'm not 100% behind you on your
suggested solution.
Probably the best solution, for buyers, would be that every store has instant
checkout or request a quote. (Just like the other site)
But that's not going to work for all sellers, so not a realistic solution.
Showing an estimated cost is, imho, a second best solution.
You don't need to do an almost impossible calculation on x-amount of different
fees that could be applied to your order. Assuming the seller even sticks to
the shipping method you chose.
Giving the buyer the option to cancel (without penalty or receiving neg feedback)
when the difference is too big is imho a better solution.
When you start your order, you can ask yourself: Am I willing to pay an extra
10% H&S on this order or not?
If it's more than 10% added, just cancel the order.
Reading the terms is always a good idea, but how many buyers do that?
And how complicated are some terms written?
Making an order non-binding kills the NPB process. Buyer doesn't have to
pay if it's not binding, but the items are blocked for the seller. So he
can't sell them to someone else.
I could just order my wanted list in 30 different stores and wait for the cheapest
invoice.
Perhaps another option could be a setting for buyers: do I want to see estimated
costs or not when placing an order?
Sure the estimated cost is easier to read, but it is meaningless when a seller
can charge what they like. They might have stated extra costs, in a simplistic
or complex way, in their terms so you have to read them. Showing an estimated
cost that ignores the terms is highly misleading.
I really agree with you on the problem, but I'm not 100% behind you on your
suggested solution.
Probably the best solution, for buyers, would be that every store has instant
checkout or request a quote. (Just like the other site)
But that's not going to work for all sellers, so not a realistic solution.
Showing an estimated cost is, imho, a second best solution.
You don't need to do an almost impossible calculation on x-amount of different
fees that could be applied to your order. Assuming the seller even sticks to
the shipping method you chose.
Giving the buyer the option to cancel (without penalty or receiving neg feedback)
when the difference is too big is imho a better solution.
When you start your order, you can ask yourself: Am I willing to pay an extra
10% H&S on this order or not?
If it's more than 10% added, just cancel the order.
Reading the terms is always a good idea, but how many buyers do that?
And how complicated are some terms written?
Making an order non-binding kills the NPB process. Buyer doesn't have to
pay if it's not binding, but the items are blocked for the seller. So he
can't sell them to someone else.
I could just order my wanted list in 30 different stores and wait for the cheapest
invoice.
Perhaps another option could be a setting for buyers: do I want to see estimated
costs or not when placing an order?
Showing an estimated cost is still pointless unless there is some way of stopping
the seller charging more, or more than 10% or similar as you say. But currently
it gives a false impression to the buyer. Reading through the terms for my order,
for example, makes shipping and handling just under 3x more than the estimate.
By showing a totally incorrect price, BL is conning people suggesting s&h is
much lower, when in reality it is not.
BL should stop showing estimated shipping and handling charges, as this gives
a false impression of what they are. For example, I almost placed an order at
this store. But reading through the terms, there are extra handling fees, extra
paypal fees and different shipping costs to those estimated and shown here.
Showing an estimated value gives a false impression, and may lead to a (supposedly
legally binding) order being placed only to find out the actual costs are significantly
higher than those estimated.
Of course, this could be completely removed by making the orders non-binding
until the seller has disclosed all costs and the buyer has a chance to agree
to them. But in the meantime, stop misleading buyers with incorrect estimated
values.
Completely agree with the OP. I don't patronize stores that have a bunch
of add-on fees and yet, some sellers are kinds reluctant to call attention to
them in their terms.
BL should stop showing estimated shipping and handling charges, as this gives
a false impression of what they are. For example, I almost placed an order at
this store. But reading through the terms, there are extra handling fees, extra
paypal fees and different shipping costs to those estimated and shown here.
Showing an estimated value gives a false impression, and may lead to a (supposedly
legally binding) order being placed only to find out the actual costs are significantly
higher than those estimated.
Of course, this could be completely removed by making the orders non-binding
until the seller has disclosed all costs and the buyer has a chance to agree
to them. But in the meantime, stop misleading buyers with incorrect estimated
values.
Completely agree with the OP. I don't patronize stores that have a bunch
of add-on fees and yet, some sellers are kinds reluctant to call attention to
them in their terms. And then there are the a-holes that don't list shipping
charges and then charges $7.00 for two minifigs sent first class to someone in
the same country.
BL should stop showing estimated shipping and handling charges, as this gives
a false impression of what they are. For example, I almost placed an order at
this store. But reading through the terms, there are extra handling fees, extra
paypal fees and different shipping costs to those estimated and shown here.
Showing an estimated value gives a false impression, and may lead to a (supposedly
legally binding) order being placed only to find out the actual costs are significantly
higher than those estimated.
I don't agree with completely stop showing them. For my store they are shown
as well, but they are accurate, unless something is wrong with the BL dimensions
of an item.
Either sellers should turn it off, and when turned off BL should not show it
in any form.
Or (maybe even better), BL should force sellers to put all fees in the appropriate
settings so they get shown, hence no after the fact surprises.
Of course, this could be completely removed by making the orders non-binding
until the seller has disclosed all costs and the buyer has a chance to agree
to them. But in the meantime, stop misleading buyers with incorrect estimated
values.
Legally (in Europe) an order isn't legally binding when not all costs are
shown at checkout, so technically, since sellers have to abide by local consumer
laws, this already is in place. BL should make that more clear and enforce it.
BL should stop showing estimated shipping and handling charges, as this gives
a false impression of what they are. For example, I almost placed an order at
this store. But reading through the terms, there are extra handling fees, extra
paypal fees and different shipping costs to those estimated and shown here.
Showing an estimated value gives a false impression, and may lead to a (supposedly
legally binding) order being placed only to find out the actual costs are significantly
higher than those estimated.
I don't agree with completely stop showing them. For my store they are shown
as well, but they are accurate, unless something is wrong with the BL dimensions
of an item.
Either sellers should turn it off, and when turned off BL should not show it
in any form.
Or (maybe even better), BL should force sellers to put all fees in the appropriate
settings so they get shown, hence no after the fact surprises.
Of course, this could be completely removed by making the orders non-binding
until the seller has disclosed all costs and the buyer has a chance to agree
to them. But in the meantime, stop misleading buyers with incorrect estimated
values.
Legally (in Europe) an order isn't legally binding when not all costs are
shown at checkout, so technically, since sellers have to abide by local consumer
laws, this already is in place. BL should make that more clear and enforce it.
If they are correct, then a seller can use instant checkout or guarantee that
they charge no more than the estimate.
And yes, orders are not legally binding within Europe if costs are not shown.
Yet place three and refuse to pay costs higher than those shown at checkout and
you can no longer use BL if the sellers file NPB.
If they are correct, then a seller can use instant checkout or guarantee that
they charge no more than the estimate.
No I won't use instant checkout. There are way to many items that hold incorrect
(or no) dimensions. And that goes both ways, most instructions have way to big
dimensions so tend to be parcel shipments according to BL while they can easily
fit as letter. And there are many items with to small dimensions. And the way
BL handles orders with odd item dimensions is wrong. When there are 2 items in
an order one that can only fit as parcel and another with unknown or 0x0x0 dimensions
BL shows the letter shipping as an option.
And yes, orders are not legally binding within Europe if costs are not shown.
Yet place three and refuse to pay costs higher than those shown at checkout and
you can no longer use BL if the sellers file NPB.
Thats why I said that BL should make that clear and enforce it, so when a NPB
is filed for such an order it should get removed wihtout penalty to the buyer.
Thats why I said that BL should make that clear and enforce it, so when a NPB
is filed for such an order it should get removed wihtout penalty to the buyer.
BL won't do that. Hence the suggestion to stop misleading customers with
inaccurate estimates leading to binding orders that can cost significantly more
than the costs shown.
In my view it is better to put "to be determined" to make it clear shipping and
handling ( unnown) will be added, rather than put a price that is likely to be
incorrect.
Thats why I said that BL should make that clear and enforce it, so when a NPB
is filed for such an order it should get removed wihtout penalty to the buyer.
BL won't do that. Hence the suggestion to stop misleading customers with
inaccurate estimates leading to binding orders that can cost significantly more
than the costs shown.
In my view it is better to put "to be determined" to make it clear shipping and
handling ( unnown) will be added, rather than put a price that is likely to be
incorrect.
And if “TBD” could be clearly explained, that would help non-native speakers….
Thats why I said that BL should make that clear and enforce it, so when a NPB
is filed for such an order it should get removed wihtout penalty to the buyer.
BL won't do that. Hence the suggestion to stop misleading customers with
inaccurate estimates leading to binding orders that can cost significantly more
than the costs shown.
In my view it is better to put "to be determined" to make it clear shipping and
handling ( unnown) will be added, rather than put a price that is likely to be
incorrect.
And if “TBD” could be clearly explained, that would help non-native speakers….
Yes, whatever makes sense for non-native speakers would be good.
It is also worth noting that when BL estimates the costs, they don't match
up to current Royal Mail postage prices. In the example I posted, they estimate
83p shipping and handling for a large letter. This is 5p less than the cheapest
possible large letter service, which starts at 88p. This has been the case for
over three months now. Removing the estimates for shipping (not handling) would
not only remove the problem of showing an estimated shipping only cost without
the handling, it would also remove the problem of having to update the shipping
costs (or maybe not, as BL doesn't care to update them).
Thats why I said that BL should make that clear and enforce it, so when a NPB
is filed for such an order it should get removed wihtout penalty to the buyer.
BL won't do that. Hence the suggestion to stop misleading customers with
inaccurate estimates leading to binding orders that can cost significantly more
than the costs shown.
In my view it is better to put "to be determined" to make it clear shipping and
handling ( unnown) will be added, rather than put a price that is likely to be
incorrect.
And if “TBD” could be clearly explained, that would help non-native speakers….
Yes, whatever makes sense for non-native speakers would be good.
It is also worth noting that when BL estimates the costs, they don't match
up to current Royal Mail postage prices. In the example I posted, they estimate
83p shipping and handling for a large letter. This is 5p less than the cheapest
possible large letter service, which starts at 88p. This has been the case for
over three months now. Removing the estimates for shipping (not handling) would
not only remove the problem of showing an estimated shipping only cost without
the handling, it would also remove the problem of having to update the shipping
costs (or maybe not, as BL doesn't care to update them).
How is BL supposed to update the shipping tables that you use?
As far as I know BL will only show the estimate from your own shipping settings
and only when you set the setting to show the estimate on checkout:
Show estimated fees on:
Checkout page
Estimated fees will be shown to the buyer. You may override them on the Order
Received page before invoicing orders.
How is BL supposed to update the shipping tables that you use?
As far as I know BL will only show the estimate from your own shipping settings
and only when you set the setting to show the estimate on checkout:
Show estimated fees on:
Checkout page
Estimated fees will be shown to the buyer. You may override them on the Order
Received page before invoicing orders.
Interesting, so this is seller input data and they are choosing to display it?
This functionality allows a seller to show a low estimated S+H then hit buyers
with a much higher charge once they place a "legally binding" order.
In that case, I'm glad I least favourited the seller.
This is nothing more than a way to con buyers into thinking shipping and handling
is a low price to get them to place an order.
How is BL supposed to update the shipping tables that you use?
As far as I know BL will only show the estimate from your own shipping settings
and only when you set the setting to show the estimate on checkout:
Show estimated fees on:
Checkout page
Estimated fees will be shown to the buyer. You may override them on the Order
Received page before invoicing orders.
Interesting, so this is seller input data and they are choosing to display it?
This functionality allows a seller to show a low estimated S+H then hit buyers
with a much higher charge once they place a "legally binding" order.
In that case, I'm glad I least favourited the seller.
This is nothing more than a way to con buyers into thinking shipping and handling
is a low price to get them to place an order.
As far as I know, yes it's up to the seller to let the estimated S&H be shown.
Maybe they don't know that the fees they have in place are not correct in
their settings, it's a long shot, but it is possible
As far as I know, yes it's up to the seller to let the estimated S&H be shown.
Maybe they don't know that the fees they have in place are not correct in
their settings, it's a long shot, but it is possible
So I really don't understand what this is for. If a seller has to decide
whether or not to tell buyers an estimated cost, and the seller is in control
of inputting them into their store, then why not just tell the buyer what the
actual costs will be? If they can estimate the costs based on a calculation,
then they can calculate the costs.
These can be known and calculated for an order where all the data is present
or "unknown" where one or more parts/sets is missing dimensions or weights. To
allow a seller to display an estimated cost that is way lower than the price
they know they will charge, and for them to gain orders based on that low estimate,
just seems very wrong.
How is BL supposed to update the shipping tables that you use?
As far as I know BL will only show the estimate from your own shipping settings
and only when you set the setting to show the estimate on checkout:
Show estimated fees on:
Checkout page
Estimated fees will be shown to the buyer. You may override them on the Order
Received page before invoicing orders.
Interesting, so this is seller input data and they are choosing to display it?
This functionality allows a seller to show a low estimated S+H then hit buyers
with a much higher charge once they place a "legally binding" order.
In that case, I'm glad I least favourited the seller.
This is nothing more than a way to con buyers into thinking shipping and handling
is a low price to get them to place an order.
BL only shows the estimated S&H for the first available shipping option in your
terms. I have multiple shipping options for domestic users, but because the "other"
shipping options have no rates, there is no estimate shown, other than "TBD"
(first image)
If I disable that method, then the next one is shown, which is not the cheapest
either, apart from the rate being inaccurate because I've not adjusted the
exchange rate for it. (second image)
I have never had a setting that lets me determine what must be shown to the buyer.
BL should stop showing estimated shipping and handling charges, as this gives
a false impression of what they are. For example, I almost placed an order at
this store. But reading through the terms, there are extra handling fees, extra
paypal fees and different shipping costs to those estimated and shown here.
Thank you, yes.
I've also seen a few that were way off the other way - when the estimate
is very much higher than what the actual is going to be. Fortunately I could
use quote requests in some of those instances or at least check the rates and
request a different shipping method myself. I do fear however that some buyers
might rather just empty their carts.
Showing an estimated value gives a false impression, and may lead to a (supposedly
legally binding) order being placed only to find out the actual costs are significantly
higher than those estimated.
Also, no store actually knows which shipping method, currency or payment method
the buyer will choose. BL cannot be picking defaults or preferences for sellers
when sellers have not actually set those up as defaults or preferences.
Of course, this could be completely removed by making the orders non-binding
until the seller has disclosed all costs and the buyer has a chance to agree
to them. But in the meantime, stop misleading buyers with incorrect estimated
values.
Agreed, both parties should actually agree on the entire order prior to it being
binding. No point in BL making compliance with country laws mandatory and then
doing everything in a manner designed to avoid doing just that. And there are
some things buyers should also adhere to in terms of consumer laws, electronic
transaction laws and privacy laws here, those are not just for sellers.
If Bricklink dealt with the issue of unecessary hidden fees the problem would
be resolved for the most part!
Bricklink badly needs to moderate store terms. If you have to choose between
moderating the forum and moderating store terms, to me it's very clear that
the latter is way more important. They are often full of things that violate
the Bricklink TOS, and stores that have different shipping costs than their predicted
cost show simply have a bug in their system. It's just not right, and someone
needs to tell them to solve it. As a buyer you could go and tell them, but even
though I'm rarely buying here I'm already tired of policing sellers.
If Bricklink dealt with the issue of unecessary hidden fees the problem would
be resolved for the most part!
Bricklink badly needs to moderate store terms. If you have to choose between
moderating the forum and moderating store terms, to me it's very clear that
the latter is way more important. They are often full of things that violate
the Bricklink TOS, and stores that have different shipping costs than their predicted
cost show simply have a bug in their system. It's just not right, and someone
needs to tell them to solve it. As a buyer you could go and tell them, but even
though I'm rarely buying here I'm already tired of policing sellers.
United Kingdom, England
Belgium, Limburg
USA, Alabama
Netherlands, Drenthe
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
South Africa
)
)
Lithuania, Panevėžys