Discussion Forum: Thread 270347

 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 17:45
 Subject: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 282 times
 Topic: Suggestions
 Status:Open
 Vote:[Yes|No]
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:
 Author: Rob_and_Shelagh View Messages Posted By Rob_and_Shelagh
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 17:54
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 48 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rob_and_Shelagh (23431)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 3, 2005 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: YELLOW FARM BRICKS
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

How and who decides if feedback is retaliatory or not and what would be the criteria
for that?
I would agree that purely retaliatory feedback is wrong but there then becomes
an issue where there are 2 sides to a story..

Robert
 Author: Tracyd View Messages Posted By Tracyd
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 17:58
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 35 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Tracyd (253)

Location:  USA, Texas
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 29, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Tracyd's
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

The definition of retaliatory is in the eye of the beholder. If I think I did
everything right and did not deserve the feedback left for me then it is not
deserved. But the other party thinks they are right and it should stand. This
would make Bricklink the final judge and jury of feedback. I look at seller's
feedback and the buyer's feedback if I am evaluating a seller. Some buyers
are unhappy at every little thing. Some sellers overreact to even the smallest
criticism.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 18:03
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 29 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
  The definition of retaliatory is in the eye of the beholder. If I think I did
everything right and did not deserve the feedback left for me then it is not
deserved. But the other party thinks they are right and it should stand. This
would make Bricklink the final judge and jury of feedback. I look at seller's
feedback and the buyer's feedback if I am evaluating a seller. Some buyers
are unhappy at every little thing. Some sellers overreact to even the smallest
criticism.

yes that is why it should be an option to let the admin decide, take this recent
case into question, this buyer received negative feedback because of negative
feedback he left the seller who failed to deliver items the buyer bought and
refused to deal with the situation, the seller deserved the negative feedback,
the buyer did not and it is obviously retaliatory in nature:

https://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?u=sludgemonster
 Author: Tracyd View Messages Posted By Tracyd
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 18:06
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 25 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Tracyd (253)

Location:  USA, Texas
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 29, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Tracyd's
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
  The definition of retaliatory is in the eye of the beholder. If I think I did
everything right and did not deserve the feedback left for me then it is not
deserved. But the other party thinks they are right and it should stand. This
would make Bricklink the final judge and jury of feedback. I look at seller's
feedback and the buyer's feedback if I am evaluating a seller. Some buyers
are unhappy at every little thing. Some sellers overreact to even the smallest
criticism.

yes that is why it should be an option to let the admin decide, take this recent
case into question, this buyer received negative feedback because of negative
feedback he left the seller who failed to deliver items the buyer bought and
refused to deal with the situation, the seller deserved the negative feedback,
the buyer did not and it is obviously retaliatory in nature:

https://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?u=sludgemonster

The retaliation came for the NSS charge. They shipped, missing item was refunded,
even PayPal wouldn't side with the buyer on this.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 18:11
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 30 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
  The definition of retaliatory is in the eye of the beholder. If I think I did
everything right and did not deserve the feedback left for me then it is not
deserved. But the other party thinks they are right and it should stand. This
would make Bricklink the final judge and jury of feedback. I look at seller's
feedback and the buyer's feedback if I am evaluating a seller. Some buyers
are unhappy at every little thing. Some sellers overreact to even the smallest
criticism.

yes that is why it should be an option to let the admin decide, take this recent
case into question, this buyer received negative feedback because of negative
feedback he left the seller who failed to deliver items the buyer bought and
refused to deal with the situation, the seller deserved the negative feedback,
the buyer did not and it is obviously retaliatory in nature:

https://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?u=sludgemonster

The retaliation came for the NSS charge. They shipped, missing item was refunded,
even PayPal wouldn't side with the buyer on this.

actually the NSS came after the negative feedback since that is evidently the
only way to remove said feedback by the rules.
 Author: Heartbricker View Messages Posted By Heartbricker
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 18:16
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 58 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Heartbricker (8752)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 29, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Heart Bricker
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I understand the frustration of getting a retaliatory feedback BUT i don't
support interjecting the BL admins into disputes over feedback.
The BL team has enough to do without this added task which is not a revenue producing
nor a productive use of their time.
Having the admin being a referee between two disputing users may result in one
of those users leaving the site which will not be beneficial for the greater
good.
Retaliatory feedback is easy to spot and usually hurts the image of the user
who left it more than the user who received it.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 18:23
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 43 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I understand the frustration of getting a retaliatory feedback BUT i don't
support interjecting the BL admins into disputes over feedback.
The BL team has enough to do without this added task which is not a revenue producing
nor a productive use of their time.
Having the admin being a referee between two disputing users may result in one
of those users leaving the site which will not be beneficial for the greater
good.
Retaliatory feedback is easy to spot and usually hurts the image of the user
who left it more than the user who received it.

oh wouldn't be surprised if the seller made it onto a lot of peoples do not
buy from lists since his actions are not those of a good seller. but the whole
reason behind admins and moderators is to moderate between 2 parties, instead
the buyer was forced to file an NSS so as to remove said feedback, do you think
that is better?
 Author: Heartbricker View Messages Posted By Heartbricker
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 18:32
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 42 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Heartbricker (8752)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 29, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Heart Bricker
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I understand the frustration of getting a retaliatory feedback BUT i don't
support interjecting the BL admins into disputes over feedback.
The BL team has enough to do without this added task which is not a revenue producing
nor a productive use of their time.
Having the admin being a referee between two disputing users may result in one
of those users leaving the site which will not be beneficial for the greater
good.
Retaliatory feedback is easy to spot and usually hurts the image of the user
who left it more than the user who received it.

oh wouldn't be surprised if the seller made it onto a lot of peoples do not
buy from lists since his actions are not those of a good seller. but the whole
reason behind admins and moderators is to moderate between 2 parties, instead
the buyer was forced to file an NSS so as to remove said feedback, do you think
that is better?

Not sure which seller you are speaking of.
Buyers filing NSS to remove feedback is a violation against bricklinks' TOS
therefore does require interjection- retaliatory feedback isn't.
The case you described is very rare.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 18:39
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 38 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I understand the frustration of getting a retaliatory feedback BUT i don't
support interjecting the BL admins into disputes over feedback.
The BL team has enough to do without this added task which is not a revenue producing
nor a productive use of their time.
Having the admin being a referee between two disputing users may result in one
of those users leaving the site which will not be beneficial for the greater
good.
Retaliatory feedback is easy to spot and usually hurts the image of the user
who left it more than the user who received it.

oh wouldn't be surprised if the seller made it onto a lot of peoples do not
buy from lists since his actions are not those of a good seller. but the whole
reason behind admins and moderators is to moderate between 2 parties, instead
the buyer was forced to file an NSS so as to remove said feedback, do you think
that is better?

Not sure which seller you are speaking of.
Buyers filing NSS to remove feedback is a violation against bricklinks' TOS
therefore does require interjection- retaliatory feedback isn't.
The case you described is very rare.

the incident is over a seller not shipping a full order, which the buyer left
negative feedback then the seller left retaliatory feedback and the only option
the buyer had was to file an NSS.

read this entire forum chain to get at why I posted this:

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1205906
 Author: Heartbricker View Messages Posted By Heartbricker
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 19:17
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 26 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Heartbricker (8752)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 29, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Heart Bricker
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I understand the frustration of getting a retaliatory feedback BUT i don't
support interjecting the BL admins into disputes over feedback.
The BL team has enough to do without this added task which is not a revenue producing
nor a productive use of their time.
Having the admin being a referee between two disputing users may result in one
of those users leaving the site which will not be beneficial for the greater
good.
Retaliatory feedback is easy to spot and usually hurts the image of the user
who left it more than the user who received it.

oh wouldn't be surprised if the seller made it onto a lot of peoples do not
buy from lists since his actions are not those of a good seller. but the whole
reason behind admins and moderators is to moderate between 2 parties, instead
the buyer was forced to file an NSS so as to remove said feedback, do you think
that is better?

Not sure which seller you are speaking of.
Buyers filing NSS to remove feedback is a violation against bricklinks' TOS
therefore does require interjection- retaliatory feedback isn't.
The case you described is very rare.

the incident is over a seller not shipping a full order, which the buyer left
negative feedback then the seller left retaliatory feedback and the only option
the buyer had was to file an NSS.

read this entire forum chain to get at why I posted this:

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1205906

I see, I think that there's blame on both sides here.
This should have been resolved better by the seller as the customer was obviously
not satisfied and was justified to leave a non positive.
The seller fell short and obviously didn't provide a satisfactory solution
to the buyer- and escalated the matter by leaving non positive.
The buyer abused the NSS system as a result of the seller's behavior.
This could be looked at in a couple ways- the feedback system wasn't abused
here- the NSS system was abused.
Our store puts more emphasis on customer experience so we would have sent the
piece or would have made a plea for the buyer to see what would be a reasonable
solution.
We also notify our buyers before shipping an order that is short to give them
an option to cancel.
I do think it is reasonable to spend $4 to repair a 7 cent mistake- but i believe
in taking full responsibility for my mistakes.
Two adults should be able to resolve their disputes- no need for a nanny.
the NSS was an abuse of BL TOS and requires interjection by admin- the feedback
system doesn't.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 19:28
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 31 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  I see, I think that there's blame on both sides here.
This should have been resolved better by the seller as the customer was obviously
not satisfied and was justified to leave a non positive.
The seller fell short and obviously didn't provide a satisfactory solution
to the buyer- and escalated the matter by leaving non positive.
The buyer abused the NSS system as a result of the seller's behavior.
This could be looked at in a couple ways- the feedback system wasn't abused
here- the NSS system was abused.
Our store puts more emphasis on customer experience so we would have sent the
piece or would have made a plea for the buyer to see what would be a reasonable
solution.
We also notify our buyers before shipping an order that is short to give them
an option to cancel.
I do think it is reasonable to spend $4 to repair a 7 cent mistake- but i believe
in taking full responsibility for my mistakes.
Two adults should be able to resolve their disputes- no need for a nanny.
the NSS was an abuse of BL TOS and requires interjection by admin- the feedback
system doesn't.

and yet the buyer is stuck with a negative he does not deserve and you do not
think that needs to be fixed?
 Author: Heartbricker View Messages Posted By Heartbricker
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 19:49
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 28 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Heartbricker (8752)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 29, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Heart Bricker
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  I see, I think that there's blame on both sides here.
This should have been resolved better by the seller as the customer was obviously
not satisfied and was justified to leave a non positive.
The seller fell short and obviously didn't provide a satisfactory solution
to the buyer- and escalated the matter by leaving non positive.
The buyer abused the NSS system as a result of the seller's behavior.
This could be looked at in a couple ways- the feedback system wasn't abused
here- the NSS system was abused.
Our store puts more emphasis on customer experience so we would have sent the
piece or would have made a plea for the buyer to see what would be a reasonable
solution.
We also notify our buyers before shipping an order that is short to give them
an option to cancel.
I do think it is reasonable to spend $4 to repair a 7 cent mistake- but i believe
in taking full responsibility for my mistakes.
Two adults should be able to resolve their disputes- no need for a nanny.
the NSS was an abuse of BL TOS and requires interjection by admin- the feedback
system doesn't.

and yet the buyer is stuck with a negative he does not deserve and you do not
think that needs to be fixed?

I don’t think it’s fair but I also don’t think that merits an intervention or
an investment of resources.
The retaliatory feedback reflects worse on the person who left it.
As a seller, this feedback wouldn’t cause me to block the buyer- specially considering
the seller who left it has a bad track record.
This has no impact on the buyer, it impacts the seller negatively as it should-
seems like it’s working okay.
It’s not perfect but it doesn’t merit investment of resources.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 20:09
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  I don’t think it’s fair but I also don’t think that merits an intervention or
an investment of resources.
The retaliatory feedback reflects worse on the person who left it.
As a seller, this feedback wouldn’t cause me to block the buyer- specially considering
the seller who left it has a bad track record.
This has no impact on the buyer, it impacts the seller negatively as it should-
seems like it’s working okay.
It’s not perfect but it doesn’t merit investment of resources.

Actually you would be wrong, how do people not know the buyer was very difficult
or made outrageous demands or such? you don't all you know is the buyer got
a negative feedback which reflects on him in the negative and you are saying
he has to suffer with it. wouldn't be surprised if this keeps up this site
may lose many potential buyers because they are not allowed to change a grave
injustice to their reputation and you are ok with that.
 Author: Heartbricker View Messages Posted By Heartbricker
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 20:25
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 21 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Heartbricker (8752)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 29, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Heart Bricker
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  I don’t think it’s fair but I also don’t think that merits an intervention or
an investment of resources.
The retaliatory feedback reflects worse on the person who left it.
As a seller, this feedback wouldn’t cause me to block the buyer- specially considering
the seller who left it has a bad track record.
This has no impact on the buyer, it impacts the seller negatively as it should-
seems like it’s working okay.
It’s not perfect but it doesn’t merit investment of resources.

Actually you would be wrong, how do people not know the buyer was very difficult
or made outrageous demands or such? you don't all you know is the buyer got
a negative feedback which reflects on him in the negative and you are saying
he has to suffer with it. wouldn't be surprised if this keeps up this site
may lose many potential buyers because they are not allowed to change a grave
injustice to their reputation and you are ok with that.

Your insinuation of me not caring about buyers experience is a good point for
me to tag out and not waste any further time debating you.
good luck.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 20:38
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 30 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  I don’t think it’s fair but I also don’t think that merits an intervention or
an investment of resources.
The retaliatory feedback reflects worse on the person who left it.
As a seller, this feedback wouldn’t cause me to block the buyer- specially considering
the seller who left it has a bad track record.
This has no impact on the buyer, it impacts the seller negatively as it should-
seems like it’s working okay.
It’s not perfect but it doesn’t merit investment of resources.

Actually you would be wrong, how do people not know the buyer was very difficult
or made outrageous demands or such? you don't all you know is the buyer got
a negative feedback which reflects on him in the negative and you are saying
he has to suffer with it. wouldn't be surprised if this keeps up this site
may lose many potential buyers because they are not allowed to change a grave
injustice to their reputation and you are ok with that.

Your insinuation of me not caring about buyers experience is a good point for
me to tag out and not waste any further time debating you.
good luck.

But it is true, you say he should just keep the negative feedback, it is like
you do not care and think nothing should be done about and that I disagree with.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 04:19
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 33 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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yorbrick (780)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  I don’t think it’s fair but I also don’t think that merits an intervention or
an investment of resources.
The retaliatory feedback reflects worse on the person who left it.
As a seller, this feedback wouldn’t cause me to block the buyer- specially considering
the seller who left it has a bad track record.
This has no impact on the buyer, it impacts the seller negatively as it should-
seems like it’s working okay.
It’s not perfect but it doesn’t merit investment of resources.

Actually you would be wrong, how do people not know the buyer was very difficult
or made outrageous demands or such? you don't all you know is the buyer got
a negative feedback which reflects on him in the negative and you are saying
he has to suffer with it. wouldn't be surprised if this keeps up this site
may lose many potential buyers because they are not allowed to change a grave
injustice to their reputation and you are ok with that.

Your insinuation of me not caring about buyers experience is a good point for
me to tag out and not waste any further time debating you.
good luck.

But it is true, you say he should just keep the negative feedback, it is like
you do not care and think nothing should be done about and that I disagree with.

Does it matter if the buyer has a negative feedback? It is not possible to stop
anyone with a minority of negative feedback from buying, so the buyer is not
affected in any way. However, if a buyer has many negative feedbacks, then they
are probably a problem.
 Author: qwertyboy View Messages Posted By qwertyboy
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 21:11
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 34 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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qwertyboy (5484)

Location:  Canada, Alberta
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 9, 2013 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Maple Bricks
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  the incident is over a seller not shipping a full order, which the buyer left
negative feedback then the seller left retaliatory feedback and the only option
the buyer had was to file an NSS.

I get that the buyer wants to have the neg removed, and I am not condoning seller's
behaviour, but posting an NSS just to get rid of a FB is not the way to go. It
is a mis-use of the system. According to the rules, seller did refund the missing
parts, so an NSS is simply not applicable.

Niek.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 23, 2020 21:43
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 29 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, qwertyboy writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  the incident is over a seller not shipping a full order, which the buyer left
negative feedback then the seller left retaliatory feedback and the only option
the buyer had was to file an NSS.

I get that the buyer wants to have the neg removed, and I am not condoning seller's
behaviour, but posting an NSS just to get rid of a FB is not the way to go. It
is a mis-use of the system. According to the rules, seller did refund the missing
parts, so an NSS is simply not applicable.

Niek.

I agree an NSS was excessive, but the way the rules are written for removing
negative feedback, that was the buyers only option, since he cannot have retaliatory
feedback removed.
 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 00:28
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 87 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I understand the frustration of getting a retaliatory feedback BUT i don't
support interjecting the BL admins into disputes over feedback.
The BL team has enough to do without this added task which is not a revenue producing
nor a productive use of their time.
Having the admin being a referee between two disputing users may result in one
of those users leaving the site which will not be beneficial for the greater
good.
Retaliatory feedback is easy to spot and usually hurts the image of the user
who left it more than the user who received it.

oh wouldn't be surprised if the seller made it onto a lot of peoples do not
buy from lists since his actions are not those of a good seller. but the whole
reason behind admins and moderators is to moderate between 2 parties, instead
the buyer was forced to file an NSS so as to remove said feedback, do you think
that is better?

An NSS like that will never stand. It is abuse of the system and admin will remove
it immediately upon notice.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 00:49
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 40 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Admin_Russell writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, Heartbricker writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I understand the frustration of getting a retaliatory feedback BUT i don't
support interjecting the BL admins into disputes over feedback.
The BL team has enough to do without this added task which is not a revenue producing
nor a productive use of their time.
Having the admin being a referee between two disputing users may result in one
of those users leaving the site which will not be beneficial for the greater
good.
Retaliatory feedback is easy to spot and usually hurts the image of the user
who left it more than the user who received it.

oh wouldn't be surprised if the seller made it onto a lot of peoples do not
buy from lists since his actions are not those of a good seller. but the whole
reason behind admins and moderators is to moderate between 2 parties, instead
the buyer was forced to file an NSS so as to remove said feedback, do you think
that is better?

An NSS like that will never stand. It is abuse of the system and admin will remove
it immediately upon notice.

I basically told him the same thing, but the core issue is the buyer has no recourse
to get what is obviously retaliatory feedback removed.

which brings into question how can buyers leave honest feedback when they face
the potential of retaliatory feedback that cannot be removed? such a situation
is a threat to what the feedback system is.
 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 01:27
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:

  I basically told him the same thing, but the core issue is the buyer has no recourse
to get what is obviously retaliatory feedback removed.

which brings into question how can buyers leave honest feedback when they face
the potential of retaliatory feedback that cannot be removed? such a situation
is a threat to what the feedback system is.

That, of course, is the real issue. IMO we need an auxiliary buyer feedback system
that is completely anonymous, where the results are amalgamated before presenting
them (privately) to the seller. These results could then be used to weed out
sellers who consistently perform poorly and lower the reputation of the site.

I have always felt that public feedback was not enough to raise the selling standards
of the site. For many BrickLink sellers, their standards are sky-high and represent
their passion for the hobby. For others, they do nothing but dull the effect
of the excellent sellers, cause problems for us in the Help Desk, and in general
apply a lot of pressure on us to implement a heavy-handed "sellers will only
get paid when the buyer is happy" system where BrickLink controls all the money.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 01:35
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 39 times
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, Admin_Russell writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:

  I basically told him the same thing, but the core issue is the buyer has no recourse
to get what is obviously retaliatory feedback removed.

which brings into question how can buyers leave honest feedback when they face
the potential of retaliatory feedback that cannot be removed? such a situation
is a threat to what the feedback system is.

That, of course, is the real issue. IMO we need an auxiliary buyer feedback system
that is completely anonymous, where the results are amalgamated before presenting
them (privately) to the seller. These results could then be used to weed out
sellers who consistently perform poorly and lower the reputation of the site.

I have always felt that public feedback was not enough to raise the selling standards
of the site. For many BrickLink sellers, their standards are sky-high and represent
their passion for the hobby. For others, they do nothing but dull the effect
of the excellent sellers, cause problems for us in the Help Desk, and in general
apply a lot of pressure on us to implement a heavy-handed "sellers will only
get paid when the buyer is happy" system where BrickLink controls all the money.

Unfortunately such a system would not work well with the seller waiting for money
till buyer receives item, sounds good in theory, but in practice not so well,
one of the things that could be added is like eBay's star system or with
holding feed back till both parties give feedback with neither knowing the other,
then it would be honest feedback from both sides. if neither party is happy then
they can communicate with the other party on getting the feedback removed. which
can only be removed if both parties agree.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 04:16
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 34 times
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yorbrick (780)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
  That, of course, is the real issue. IMO we need an auxiliary buyer feedback system
that is completely anonymous, where the results are amalgamated before presenting
them (privately) to the seller. These results could then be used to weed out
sellers who consistently perform poorly and lower the reputation of the site.


There are a number of sellers that come up time and time again, for bad selling
practices. Leaving negative feedback, not supplying items but refunding to get
out of NSS, sending orders missing items and refunding for missing parts without
telling buyers, and so on. If BL really cared, they could weed out these sellers
now.

Part of the problem is buyers keep buying from sellers with relatively poor feedback,
suggesting (some) buyers don't care.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 12:28
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
  […]
Part of the problem is buyers keep buying from sellers with relatively poor feedback,
suggesting (some) buyers don't care.

I think it’s more a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.

Remember HouseOfLogo (and what a real mess it was).
 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 13:20
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
  […]
Part of the problem is buyers keep buying from sellers with relatively poor feedback,
suggesting (some) buyers don't care.

I think it’s more a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.

Remember HouseOfLogo (and what a real mess it was).

Yes, and it was a huge ordeal to get that store shut down. I have often thought
of establishing some kind of disciplinary board to handle these high profile
cases. But regardless of the mechanism, honest data from users would be a big
help.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 14:11
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 32 times
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yorbrick (780)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Suggestions, Admin_Russell writes:
  In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
  […]
Part of the problem is buyers keep buying from sellers with relatively poor feedback,
suggesting (some) buyers don't care.

I think it’s more a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.

Remember HouseOfLogo (and what a real mess it was).

Yes, and it was a huge ordeal to get that store shut down. I have often thought
of establishing some kind of disciplinary board to handle these high profile
cases. But regardless of the mechanism, honest data from users would be a big
help.

If you want honest feedback from buyers, then remove feedback for buyers. That
way, they don't have anything to lose by being honest (not that a buyer's
feedback matters anyway). Buyers getting only positives like at ebay is pointless.
You might as well just use the buyer order count instead, it amounts to the same
thing and saves a seller the time of leaving positive feedback.

It would be nice though to have a buyer score based not on the feedback they
received, but the feedback they left. If a buyer continuously leaves negatives
or neutrals as they feel they have the power to do so with no comeback, then
they are the problem. It should not be anonymous either. If they leave a seller
a negative (or multiple negatives), then the seller should have the right to
ban them from continuing to purchase and continue to leave poor feedback. If
a buyer has a problem with say 1 in every 20 orders, then leaving negative feedback
on that scale is fine. However, if they claim they have negative experiences
in 1 in every 2 orders then I imagine they will get added to many stoplists and
should probably be banned themselves.

I think you have to be careful though, giving lots of power to buyers might actually
reduce standards. If a buyer says they have a problem and is probably going to
leave negative feedback anyway no matter what the seller does, then the seller
has no incentive to put things right. And in a similar way, if negatives become
more common and there is some threshold set then there is less of an incentive
to maintain an excellent record when good enough is still enough to keep selling.

I think there is a better way for you to maintain standards than through feedback
though and that is through NSS claims. Not completed ones, but claims. For example,
if a seller continually fails to deliver but refunds when caught and does this
time and time again, why are they allowed to continue getting away with it? Just
refunding when they get a complaint does not mean they are a good seller.

You could always have another box for buyers to fill in when leaving feedback
- asking did you get everything in your order in the stated condition. If a seller
gets below a certain percentage for those, they should be warned. If they continue
to get very low ratings, then they should be banned. Of course, it should only
count if a buyer fills in this information for all of their orders.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 14:28
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
  In Suggestions, Admin_Russell writes:
  In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
  […]
Part of the problem is buyers keep buying from sellers with relatively poor feedback,
suggesting (some) buyers don't care.

I think it’s more a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.

Remember HouseOfLogo (and what a real mess it was).

Yes, and it was a huge ordeal to get that store shut down. I have often thought
of establishing some kind of disciplinary board to handle these high profile
cases. But regardless of the mechanism, honest data from users would be a big
help.

If you want honest feedback from buyers, then remove feedback for buyers. That
way, they don't have anything to lose by being honest (not that a buyer's
feedback matters anyway). Buyers getting only positives like at ebay is pointless.
You might as well just use the buyer order count instead, it amounts to the same
thing and saves a seller the time of leaving positive feedback.

It would be nice though to have a buyer score based not on the feedback they
received, but the feedback they left. If a buyer continuously leaves negatives
or neutrals as they feel they have the power to do so with no comeback, then
they are the problem. It should not be anonymous either. If they leave a seller
a negative (or multiple negatives), then the seller should have the right to
ban them from continuing to purchase and continue to leave poor feedback. If
a buyer has a problem with say 1 in every 20 orders, then leaving negative feedback
on that scale is fine. However, if they claim they have negative experiences
in 1 in every 2 orders then I imagine they will get added to many stoplists and
should probably be banned themselves.

I think you have to be careful though, giving lots of power to buyers might actually
reduce standards. If a buyer says they have a problem and is probably going to
leave negative feedback anyway no matter what the seller does, then the seller
has no incentive to put things right. And in a similar way, if negatives become
more common and there is some threshold set then there is less of an incentive
to maintain an excellent record when good enough is still enough to keep selling.

I think there is a better way for you to maintain standards than through feedback
though and that is through NSS claims. Not completed ones, but claims. For example,
if a seller continually fails to deliver but refunds when caught and does this
time and time again, why are they allowed to continue getting away with it? Just
refunding when they get a complaint does not mean they are a good seller.

You could always have another box for buyers to fill in when leaving feedback
- asking did you get everything in your order in the stated condition. If a seller
gets below a certain percentage for those, they should be warned. If they continue
to get very low ratings, then they should be banned. Of course, it should only
count if a buyer fills in this information for all of their orders.

I'd disagree with that assumption, since right now the only negative feedback
I have is as a buyer and I did deserve it I failed in my obligation to the seller.

and as to feedback I have left as both a buyer and seller, they were deserved.
in fact in one case where I was the buyer my feedback along with others helped
to inform the public the seller was a serious problem and even then it took awhile
to get rid of them. https://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?viewType=&u=lego_police2
 Author: Tracyd View Messages Posted By Tracyd
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 15:34
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Tracyd (253)

Location:  USA, Texas
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 29, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: Tracyd's
In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
  […]
Part of the problem is buyers keep buying from sellers with relatively poor feedback,
suggesting (some) buyers don't care.

I think it’s more a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.

Remember HouseOfLogo (and what a real mess it was).

Whatever happened with them was in my dark time. Before their meltdown I had
5 successful orders with them with no problems.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 15:49
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Suggestions, Tracyd writes:
  […]
  I think it’s more a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.

Remember HouseOfLogo (and what a real mess it was).

Whatever happened with them was in my dark time. Before their meltdown I had
5 successful orders with them with no problems.

From what I got from the forum at that time, there were many awful delays, lots
of (tardy) refunds (so no NSS), etc.
And part of the problem was that there also were many people having no problems,
defending them and using them again.
“It didn’t happen to me, therefore it will never happen to me (because I’m special).”
Or worse: “It didn’t happen to me, therefore it didn’t happen to anyone (they
are just impatient sourpusses).”

It took months for the admins to smooth them out.
 Author: tEoS View Messages Posted By tEoS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 15:54
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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tEoS (5023)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 24, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Elements Of Surprise
Was ShackyShuffle also HoL? I recall them having similar issues.

  From what I got from the forum at that time, there were many awful delays, lots
of (tardy) refunds (so no NSS), etc.
And part of the problem was that there also were many people having no problems,
defending them and using them again.
“It didn’t happen to me, therefore it will never happen to me (because I’m special).”
Or worse: “It didn’t happen to me, therefore it didn’t happen to anyone (they
are just impatient sourpusses).”

It took months for the admins to smooth them out.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:15
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Was ShackyShuffle also HoL? I recall them having similar issues.

I don’t remember that name.
And, of course, the forum history has been long purged.

Not long ago, HouseOfLogos was still listed as a member (I’m not sure if they
were still registred but their name was searchable: I did search because I never
remember if it was Logo or Logos).
But now these members must have become BLUSERs: can’t buy, can’t sell, no reasons
to log in to accept the new ToS.
“Dust: this is carpet; carpet, this is dust. You’ll spend a long time together.”
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:35
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Was ShackyShuffle also HoL? I recall them having similar issues.

I don’t remember that name.
And, of course, the forum history has been long purged.

Not long ago, HouseOfLogos was still listed as a member (I’m not sure if they
were still registred but their name was searchable: I did search because I never
remember if it was Logo or Logos).
But now these members must have become BLUSERs: can’t buy, can’t sell, no reasons
to log in to accept the new ToS.
“Dust: this is carpet; carpet, this is dust. You’ll spend a long time together.”

ShakeyShuffle was a character.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:57
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  […]
ShakeyShuffle was a character.

But that doesn’t prevent a member using “ShackyShuffle” (with or without the
‘e’) for their ID here.

Are you Ricky Stratton from Silver Spoons?
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 17:53
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
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Store Closed Store: quick blowout
(Cancelled)
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 17:53
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  […]
ShakeyShuffle was a character.

But that doesn’t prevent a member using “ShackyShuffle” (with or without the
‘e’) for their ID here.

Are you Ricky Stratton from Silver Spoons?

Nope
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 18:14
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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SylvainLS (32)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Buyer
Buying Privileges - OK
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  […]
ShakeyShuffle was a character.

But that doesn’t prevent a member using “ShackyShuffle” (with or without the
‘e’) for their ID here.

Are you Ricky Stratton from Silver Spoons?

Nope

Too bad. You wouldn’t gift me a million $ or two anyway?
 Author: edeevo View Messages Posted By edeevo
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 18:00
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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edeevo (6977)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status Collage
Dec 12, 2003 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
View Collage Pic
Store Closed Store: Lucky Eds Good Ol Bricks
In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
  In Suggestions, yorbrick writes:
  […]
Part of the problem is buyers keep buying from sellers with relatively poor feedback,
suggesting (some) buyers don't care.

I think it’s more a “it won’t happen to me” attitude.

Remember HouseOfLogo (and what a real mess it was).

I 'memba that member... they gave many Buyers quite the wild ride...

Life is Good.
~Ed.
 
 Author: infinibrix View Messages Posted By infinibrix
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 07:49
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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infinibrix (2949)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jul 1, 2013 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: infinibrix
In Suggestions, Admin_Russell writes:

  That, of course, is the real issue. IMO we need an auxiliary buyer feedback system
that is completely anonymous, where the results are amalgamated before presenting
them (privately) to the seller. These results could then be used to weed out
sellers who consistently perform poorly and lower the reputation of the site.

I have always felt that public feedback was not enough to raise the selling standards
of the site. For many BrickLink sellers, their standards are sky-high and represent
their passion for the hobby. For others, they do nothing but dull the effect
of the excellent sellers, cause problems for us in the Help Desk, and in general
apply a lot of pressure on us to implement a heavy-handed "sellers will only
get paid when the buyer is happy" system where BrickLink controls all the money.

The only problems I have with anonymous feedback is that think it may head in
a direction where the feedback left may become even more sinister!
The thing is there are always people out there that look to destroy and ruin
things simply because they can and/or they get a kick out of doing things like
that and similarly there are people who I’m sure would love to put a neutral/negative
against a sellers otherwise flawless feedback simply because they can and have
the power to do so without being bought to task about why they did this?

There may be others that begrudge a seller somewhat simply because they didn’t
agree to discount something when asked? and then you may have other competitor
sellers who may be looking to bring a high performing seller down a few pegs?

From a sellers point of view if I make a right hash of an order or end up
non-intentionally messing the customer around with mistakes, oversights or forgetting
to ship their order and I get a negative then I guess I have to just take that
on the chin but if a buyer leaves what I consider to be unfair negative then
I would at least like to be able to see who has complained and what I have done
wrong so that I can improve or choose to block the buyer if I don’t feel its
justified!

In fact I would also say that perhaps make it common knowledge to everyone using
Bricklink that by choosing to leave a negative for someone you are also choosing
to never deal with that store/person again and so perhaps put in place an auto-blocking
feature?
Presumably if someone leaves a negative they are unhappy with the way a store
performs and in which case for that same person to continue to shop in your store
for a second time would seem a bit sinister to me or am I wrong here?

Either way in some cases I’m sure people will be able to work out who left the
negative feedback anyway based on the feedback comments or the way an email conversations
went beforehand but on the other hand what if a buyer complains and still leaves
positive and yet the seller receives a negative from someone else and wrongly
assumes it’s the buyer who complained meaning you still end up with some retalitory
feedback injustices!

The only way I think this really works is as I’ve mention before with the ebay
style where sellers can’t leave anything but positive feedback for buyers and
buyers can leave whatever they feel appropriate so that the feedback system is
used to help keep all sellers on their toes and performing to high standards.
At the end of the day if there are severe feedback injustices left by buyers
I’m sure they can be reported and removed by admins where appropriate and rather
than rely on sellers feedback to attempt to tackle bad buyers, I’m sure if these
buyers are that that bad it should just be a case of reporting any outrageous
buyer behaviour to the admins so that with enough reported incidents they can
be weeded off the site for good and with it all the feedback they've left
for people!
 Author: Heartbricker View Messages Posted By Heartbricker
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 11:08
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Heartbricker (8752)

Location:  USA, New Jersey
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 29, 2008 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Heart Bricker
In Suggestions, infinibrix writes:
  In Suggestions, Admin_Russell writes:

  That, of course, is the real issue. IMO we need an auxiliary buyer feedback system
that is completely anonymous, where the results are amalgamated before presenting
them (privately) to the seller. These results could then be used to weed out
sellers who consistently perform poorly and lower the reputation of the site.

I have always felt that public feedback was not enough to raise the selling standards
of the site. For many BrickLink sellers, their standards are sky-high and represent
their passion for the hobby. For others, they do nothing but dull the effect
of the excellent sellers, cause problems for us in the Help Desk, and in general
apply a lot of pressure on us to implement a heavy-handed "sellers will only
get paid when the buyer is happy" system where BrickLink controls all the money.

The only problems I have with anonymous feedback is that think it may head in
a direction where the feedback left may become even more sinister!
The thing is there are always people out there that look to destroy and ruin
things simply because they can and/or they get a kick out of doing things like
that and similarly there are people who I’m sure would love to put a neutral/negative
against a sellers otherwise flawless feedback simply because they can and have
the power to do so without being bought to task about why they did this?

There may be others that begrudge a seller somewhat simply because they didn’t
agree to discount something when asked? and then you may have other competitor
sellers who may be looking to bring a high performing seller down a few pegs?

From a sellers point of view if I make a right hash of an order or end up
non-intentionally messing the customer around with mistakes, oversights or forgetting
to ship their order and I get a negative then I guess I have to just take that
on the chin but if a buyer leaves what I consider to be unfair negative then
I would at least like to be able to see who has complained and what I have done
wrong so that I can improve or choose to block the buyer if I don’t feel its
justified!

In fact I would also say that perhaps make it common knowledge to everyone using
Bricklink that by choosing to leave a negative for someone you are also choosing
to never deal with that store/person again and so perhaps put in place an auto-blocking
feature?
Presumably if someone leaves a negative they are unhappy with the way a store
performs and in which case for that same person to continue to shop in your store
for a second time would seem a bit sinister to me or am I wrong here?

Either way in some cases I’m sure people will be able to work out who left the
negative feedback anyway based on the feedback comments or the way an email conversations
went beforehand but on the other hand what if a buyer complains and still leaves
positive and yet the seller receives a negative from someone else and wrongly
assumes it’s the buyer who complained meaning you still end up with some retalitory
feedback injustices!

The only way I think this really works is as I’ve mention before with the ebay
style where sellers can’t leave anything but positive feedback for buyers and
buyers can leave whatever they feel appropriate so that the feedback system is
used to help keep all sellers on their toes and performing to high standards.
At the end of the day if there are severe feedback injustices left by buyers
I’m sure they can be reported and removed by admins where appropriate and rather
than rely on sellers feedback to attempt to tackle bad buyers, I’m sure if these
buyers are that that bad it should just be a case of reporting any outrageous
buyer behaviour to the admins so that with enough reported incidents they can
be weeded off the site for good and with it all the feedback they've left
for people!

+1 million! What you wrote makes so much sense. thank you.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 11:12
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 27 times
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, infinibrix writes:
  In Suggestions, Admin_Russell writes:

  That, of course, is the real issue. IMO we need an auxiliary buyer feedback system
that is completely anonymous, where the results are amalgamated before presenting
them (privately) to the seller. These results could then be used to weed out
sellers who consistently perform poorly and lower the reputation of the site.

I have always felt that public feedback was not enough to raise the selling standards
of the site. For many BrickLink sellers, their standards are sky-high and represent
their passion for the hobby. For others, they do nothing but dull the effect
of the excellent sellers, cause problems for us in the Help Desk, and in general
apply a lot of pressure on us to implement a heavy-handed "sellers will only
get paid when the buyer is happy" system where BrickLink controls all the money.

The only problems I have with anonymous feedback is that think it may head in
a direction where the feedback left may become even more sinister!
The thing is there are always people out there that look to destroy and ruin
things simply because they can and/or they get a kick out of doing things like
that and similarly there are people who I’m sure would love to put a neutral/negative
against a sellers otherwise flawless feedback simply because they can and have
the power to do so without being bought to task about why they did this?

There may be others that begrudge a seller somewhat simply because they didn’t
agree to discount something when asked? and then you may have other competitor
sellers who may be looking to bring a high performing seller down a few pegs?

From a sellers point of view if I make a right hash of an order or end up
non-intentionally messing the customer around with mistakes, oversights or forgetting
to ship their order and I get a negative then I guess I have to just take that
on the chin but if a buyer leaves what I consider to be unfair negative then
I would at least like to be able to see who has complained and what I have done
wrong so that I can improve or choose to block the buyer if I don’t feel its
justified!

In fact I would also say that perhaps make it common knowledge to everyone using
Bricklink that by choosing to leave a negative for someone you are also choosing
to never deal with that store/person again and so perhaps put in place an auto-blocking
feature?
Presumably if someone leaves a negative they are unhappy with the way a store
performs and in which case for that same person to continue to shop in your store
for a second time would seem a bit sinister to me or am I wrong here?

Either way in some cases I’m sure people will be able to work out who left the
negative feedback anyway based on the feedback comments or the way an email conversations
went beforehand but on the other hand what if a buyer complains and still leaves
positive and yet the seller receives a negative from someone else and wrongly
assumes it’s the buyer who complained meaning you still end up with some retalitory
feedback injustices!

The only way I think this really works is as I’ve mention before with the ebay
style where sellers can’t leave anything but positive feedback for buyers and
buyers can leave whatever they feel appropriate so that the feedback system is
used to help keep all sellers on their toes and performing to high standards.
At the end of the day if there are severe feedback injustices left by buyers
I’m sure they can be reported and removed by admins where appropriate and rather
than rely on sellers feedback to attempt to tackle bad buyers, I’m sure if these
buyers are that that bad it should just be a case of reporting any outrageous
buyer behaviour to the admins so that with enough reported incidents they can
be weeded off the site for good and with it all the feedback they've left
for people!

problem is it is not just bad buyers but bad sellers, my suggestion here was
made because of a seller who left retaliatory feedback for a deserved negative
they had received from a buyer.
 Author: infinibrix View Messages Posted By infinibrix
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:07
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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infinibrix (2949)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jul 1, 2013 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: infinibrix
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  
problem is it is not just bad buyers but bad sellers, my suggestion here was
made because of a seller who left retaliatory feedback for a deserved negative
they had received from a buyer.

But that’s just my point with the ebays feedback system Sellers can’t leave negative
feedback for buyers which means they can’t leave retaliatory feedback in any
shape or form! Meaning the buyer is able to give their honest opinion without
fear of retaliatory feedback!

It’s a change I’ve been calling for some time:-

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1168664

I feel its only important that we understand how a seller performs(Feedback wise!)
because it goes without saying that there will always be a few difficult customers
and its how sellers deal with those tricky customers that’s important and for
those customers that are impossibly unreasonable they can be reported and dealt
with by Bricklink!
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:34
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, infinibrix writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  
problem is it is not just bad buyers but bad sellers, my suggestion here was
made because of a seller who left retaliatory feedback for a deserved negative
they had received from a buyer.

But that’s just my point with the ebays feedback system Sellers can’t leave negative
feedback for buyers which means they can’t leave retaliatory feedback in any
shape or form! Meaning the buyer is able to give their honest opinion without
fear of retaliatory feedback!

It’s a change I’ve been calling for some time:-

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1168664

I feel its only important that we understand how a seller performs(Feedback wise!)
because it goes without saying that there will always be a few difficult customers
and its how sellers deal with those tricky customers that’s important and for
those customers that are impossibly unreasonable they can be reported and dealt
with by Bricklink!

While I do agree such a system would be useful it could also have drawbacks too.
 Author: infinibrix View Messages Posted By infinibrix
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 17:04
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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infinibrix (2949)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jul 1, 2013 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: infinibrix
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, infinibrix writes:
  In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  
problem is it is not just bad buyers but bad sellers, my suggestion here was
made because of a seller who left retaliatory feedback for a deserved negative
they had received from a buyer.

But that’s just my point with the ebays feedback system Sellers can’t leave negative
feedback for buyers which means they can’t leave retaliatory feedback in any
shape or form! Meaning the buyer is able to give their honest opinion without
fear of retaliatory feedback!

It’s a change I’ve been calling for some time:-

https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1168664

I feel its only important that we understand how a seller performs(Feedback wise!)
because it goes without saying that there will always be a few difficult customers
and its how sellers deal with those tricky customers that’s important and for
those customers that are impossibly unreasonable they can be reported and dealt
with by Bricklink!

While I do agree such a system would be useful it could also have drawbacks too.

Well every system has drawbacks but presumably the current system has big enough
drawbacks for you to warrant posting your concerns in the first place? Hopefully
any drawbacks you associate with the ebay system will be outweighed with what
you are already experiencing right now with the current system?
 Author: FloathBricks View Messages Posted By FloathBricks
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 04:35
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 28 times
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FloathBricks (2339)

Location:  Germany, Rheinland-Pfalz
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 9, 2016 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Floath Bricks
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback since as the rules stand retaliatory feedback is allowed:

Feedback you Received:
The following are currently the only valid reasons for which you can request
feedback you received to be removed:
Feedback you received contains vulgar language.
Feedback you received contains personally identifying information including your
name, address, e-mail address or telephone number.
You are the seller and the buyer has not paid. Non-Paying Buyer Alert has been
completed or the buyer has accepted the NPB penalty via NPX.
You are the buyer and the seller has not responded or shipped. Non-Responding
Seller Alert or Non-Shipping Seller Alert has been completed.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who had their
membership terminated.
Feedback you received was posted by a duplicate account of a user who was on
your Stop List before the order was placed.
If you're requesting feedback to be removed for the last 2 reasons above,
you should contact the Help Desk before you submit the request and let us know
the original username of the duplicate account.
Requests can be submitted until the order is purged from the system - up to 6
months from the order date. Requests are submitted to the BrickLink Administration
for approval. If the feedback is removed, it cannot be reposted. Each request
has a status:

I would also like to make a note here. It is unfair to receive a rating for shipping.

Received a neutral rating because the shipping from germany to usa took 42 days
by Covid-19.

I hope that this system will be rebuilt, because what can I do that the German
post no longer sends anything.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 05:10
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 28 times
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yorbrick (780)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  As it goes a rule not allowing retaliatory feedback should also be added for
removal of said feedback

I voted no, for the simple reason that a bad seller that knows they have done
wrong will leave a negative feedback first. Then any negative feedback
from the buyer is retaliatory and should be removed according to the rule. So
the buyer gets negative feedback and the seller gets none.
 Author: tEoS View Messages Posted By tEoS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 14:51
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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tEoS (5023)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 24, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Elements Of Surprise
Voted no. I don't believe this is the solution to the problem.

The problem, as I see it, is two-fold (or maybe more) and is related to human
behavior:

1) The desire to be viewed as perfect. Further derived from one's careful
approach to their online persona (ie: through Facebook, etc. where you only see
one's "good" side or positive achievements).

2) Inability to view one's mistakes as an opportunity to learn and grow.
Blames others for their own shortcomings. Ties into ego, above.

Of course, I think these are experienced in varying degrees by at least most
individuals. The more extreme of which behave in aggressive selling practices.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 15:03
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 43 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Voted no. I don't believe this is the solution to the problem.

The problem, as I see it, is two-fold (or maybe more) and is related to human
behavior:

1) The desire to be viewed as perfect. Further derived from one's careful
approach to their online persona (ie: through Facebook, etc. where you only see
one's "good" side or positive achievements).

2) Inability to view one's mistakes as an opportunity to learn and grow.
Blames others for their own shortcomings. Ties into ego, above.

Of course, I think these are experienced in varying degrees by at least most
individuals. The more extreme of which behave in aggressive selling practices.

didn't read the suggestion did ya? the suggestion is to have the opportunity
to have what is known as retaliatory feedback removed, this was brought about
because of an incident that happened which went like this:

Buyer buys items from seller
Seller ships items, but then discovers he "forgot" 3 .07 cent tires
Seller decides to refund the .21 cents without contacting buyer and getting their
input
Buyer is miffed and rightly so and leaves negative feedback
Seller turns around and leaves negative feedback for the buyer even though the
buyer did nothing wrong
Buyer is unable to have feedback removed because of the current rules
Buyer goes with only option to remove feedback and that is to file an NSS
The NSS will get dropped since the buyer was refunded but not at his request.

As it goes do you feel it is justified for said buyer to have said negative feedback
even though they did nothing wrong to deserve it? do you believe it is ok for
anyone to leave retaliatory feedback because they got a deserved negative?
 Author: tEoS View Messages Posted By tEoS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 15:48
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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 Topic: Suggestions
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tEoS (5023)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 24, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Elements Of Surprise
Get your facts straight. You even have an error in the incident.

You come back to the forum after all these years and pretend like no one is aware
of what is going on. I read the suggestion and do not see its merits.

The problem is not retaliatory feedback, it is with certain members.

  didn't read the suggestion did ya? the suggestion is to have the opportunity
to have what is known as retaliatory feedback removed, this was brought about
because of an incident that happened which went like this:
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:03
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Get your facts straight. You even have an error in the incident.

You come back to the forum after all these years and pretend like no one is aware
of what is going on. I read the suggestion and do not see its merits.

The problem is not retaliatory feedback, it is with certain members.

  didn't read the suggestion did ya? the suggestion is to have the opportunity
to have what is known as retaliatory feedback removed, this was brought about
because of an incident that happened which went like this:

Actually there is no error, the synopsis is based on available data. but that
is just one incident it still brings up the issue that retaliatory feedback cannot
be removed and in that, it can cause more issues down the road. and it also prevents
buyers from leaving honest feedback in fear they will receive retaliatory feedback
in response.
 Author: tEoS View Messages Posted By tEoS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:06
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 23 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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tEoS (5023)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 24, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Elements Of Surprise
Buyer left neutral feedback = error in what you wrote

  Actually there is no error, the synopsis is based on available data. but that
is just one incident it still brings up the issue that retaliatory feedback cannot
be removed and in that, it can cause more issues down the road. and it also prevents
buyers from leaving honest feedback in fear they will receive retaliatory feedback
in response.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 16:31
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Buyer left neutral feedback = error in what you wrote

  Actually there is no error, the synopsis is based on available data. but that
is just one incident it still brings up the issue that retaliatory feedback cannot
be removed and in that, it can cause more issues down the road. and it also prevents
buyers from leaving honest feedback in fear they will receive retaliatory feedback
in response.

Wrong again: it was negative, you notice the negative feedback they left for
Sludgemonster?

https://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?fdbType=2&p=mjsheller

and it seems this seller is pretty notorious in not being a great seller and
leaving retaliatory feedback too.
 Author: tEoS View Messages Posted By tEoS
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 20:11
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
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 Topic: Suggestions
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tEoS (5023)

Location:  USA, Michigan
Member Since Contact Type Status
Dec 24, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: The Elements Of Surprise
Recheck the facts, then reread your full report of the incident. Then maybe
you will see the error.

In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Buyer left neutral feedback = error in what you wrote

  Actually there is no error, the synopsis is based on available data. but that
is just one incident it still brings up the issue that retaliatory feedback cannot
be removed and in that, it can cause more issues down the road. and it also prevents
buyers from leaving honest feedback in fear they will receive retaliatory feedback
in response.

Wrong again: it was negative, you notice the negative feedback they left for
Sludgemonster?

https://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?fdbType=2&p=mjsheller

and it seems this seller is pretty notorious in not being a great seller and
leaving retaliatory feedback too.
 Author: Rick_S. View Messages Posted By Rick_S.
 Posted: Jun 24, 2020 20:29
 Subject: Re: Changing rules of feedback
 Viewed: 37 times
 Topic: Suggestions
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Rick_S. (1301)

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 10, 2002 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: quick blowout
In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Recheck the facts, then reread your full report of the incident. Then maybe
you will see the error.

In Suggestions, Rick_S. writes:
  In Suggestions, tEoS writes:
  Buyer left neutral feedback = error in what you wrote

  Actually there is no error, the synopsis is based on available data. but that
is just one incident it still brings up the issue that retaliatory feedback cannot
be removed and in that, it can cause more issues down the road. and it also prevents
buyers from leaving honest feedback in fear they will receive retaliatory feedback
in response.

Wrong again: it was negative, you notice the negative feedback they left for
Sludgemonster?

https://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?fdbType=2&p=mjsheller

and it seems this seller is pretty notorious in not being a great seller and
leaving retaliatory feedback too.

Yes buyer left neutral, but still does not excuse the negative left by the seller.
and the way the rules are written the seller could do nothing about it. since
the rules were very specific on what reasons feedback could be removed. and that
is what I want changed since they are not the only reasons, since retaliatory
feedback has been removed before and so forth. (in fact he has already contacted
the admins about getting the feedback removed)