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| | | Author: | edk  | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 09:41 | | Subject: | inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 213 times | | Topic: | Catalog | | Status: | Open | |
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| | why is a plate modified when is a tile modified? |
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| | | | | Author: | tpr | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 10:06 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, edk writes:
| | why is a plate modified when is a tile modified?
|
A plate by definition has studs
A tile by definition is flat, no studs.
Surely a modified plate should have more studs than flat area and vice versa
for tiles
A lot of these type of items are split between tiles and modified plates
tpr
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| | | | | Author: | JusTiCe8 | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 10:10 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 75 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, edk writes:
| | why is a plate modified when is a tile modified?
|
Good question, I have identified a lot more inconsistencies, some with plates
and tiles too, as some parts are identified as plate, some as tile...
AFAIK a tile is flat with sometime something added/removed (a stud, a hole, a
hook, whatever), a plate is full of studs, but could we allow studs to be removed
and still consider it as a plate ?
Or such plate mutate/evolve into a tile ?
There are more in Technic/Bionicle/Hero Factory parts, slope/inverted slope.
(Technic looks like a bin where parts have been put there by default, as there
are parts which may have never been included in a Technic set, like 45799, balls
like 32474pb008 too but I can't be sure.
My guess is someone has to choose in a hurry and didn't think too much of
what must go to where, then noone fix this and we have some hard to understand
categories for such parts.
these parts:
2744pb008
2744pb012L
2744pb012R
2744pb017L
2744pb017R
are in Technic, could be "Slope decorated" or "Technic/Slope decorated".
Turntable like 2856c01 or 48452cx1 are in Technic, not in Turntable.
Tecnic disks mixed all together:
2958
with
2958pb042
2958pb012
2958pb037
...
2815 could be in "tires & threads".
There are more with cylinders which contains... half-spheres or domes (ouch !
someone need to review his/her basic geometry I guess  )
Finally 24201 is in slope curved, could be in inverted slope (as its main feature
is to be inverted first then curved).
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| | | | | | | Author: | POPS_BLOCK_SHOP | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 10:31 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| Just Ask Bricklink to change the description of what you think is wrong. I have
been doing the last few weeks and they have changed the description on everything
I asked them to.
Example
Item No: 14769pb196
Used to have title
Tile, Round 2 x 2 with Bottom Stud Holder with Tree Trunk Pattern
I was searching for Wood Grain which was not in the description at all. Not "Wood"
or "Grain"
I sent request and within 2 days they updated it to
Tile, Round 2 x 2 with Bottom Stud Holder with Tree Trunk, Wood Grain Pattern
I also made a youtube video on how to submit such things to help make bricklink
better!
https://youtu.be/H3M6AlhoEUM
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 10:39 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, POPS_BLOCK_SHOP writes:
| | Just Ask Bricklink to change the description of what you think is wrong. I have
been doing the last few weeks and they have changed the description on everything
I asked them to.
Example
Item No: 14769pb196
Used to have title
Tile, Round 2 x 2 with Bottom Stud Holder with Tree Trunk Pattern
I was searching for Wood Grain which was not in the description at all. Not "Wood"
or "Grain"
I sent request and within 2 days they updated it to
Tile, Round 2 x 2 with Bottom Stud Holder with Tree Trunk, Wood Grain Pattern
I also made a youtube video on how to submit such things to help make bricklink
better!
https://youtu.be/H3M6AlhoEUM
|
While names are updated quickly, I doubt that they will update categories so
freely. Some people sort and store by type, and to just move a part from one
type to another is not something they should do without careful thought.
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| | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 10:11 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, edk writes:
| | why is a plate modified when is a tile modified?
|
I’d have said it’s the number of studs (or ratio). Something like 50%+1 of studs
missing means it’s a tile, but some “tiles” have 50% of their studs and some
“plates” have less than 50% of their studs.
Plates:
(and variants)
(and variant)
Tiles:
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 10:14 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, edk writes:
| | why is a plate modified when is a tile modified?
|
There is no consistency, both could be either.
You could say the parent of 6576 is either a 4x8 plate or 4x8 tile, but the 4x8
tile doesn't exist so 6576 must be a modified plate.
Or you could say you add 12 studs to the tile or remove 20 studs from the plate,
so it is closer to being a tile than a plate.
For 88646, neither the parent tile or plate exist. You add 4 studs to the tile,
but remove 8 from the plate and also have to shift them. So does that make it
a modified tile rather than modified plate?
If so, then the 1x2 jumper should be a modified tile (add one stud, vs remove
and move one stud). Similarly a 2x2 jumper is definitely closer to a tile than
a plate but is still a modified plate. Worse still, this pack of jumper bricks:
contains no bricks at all.
is clearly a 2x2 plate with two studs removed, but it is a modified tile.
is also a modified tile rather than plate (compare to 6576).
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| | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 14:15 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
| | In Catalog, edk writes:
| | why is a plate modified when is a tile modified?
|
There is no consistency, both could be either.
You could say the parent of 6576 is either a 4x8 plate or 4x8 tile, but the 4x8
tile doesn't exist so 6576 must be a modified plate.
Or you could say you add 12 studs to the tile or remove 20 studs from the plate,
so it is closer to being a tile than a plate.
For 88646, neither the parent tile or plate exist. You add 4 studs to the tile,
but remove 8 from the plate and also have to shift them. So does that make it
a modified tile rather than modified plate?
If so, then the 1x2 jumper should be a modified tile (add one stud, vs remove
and move one stud). Similarly a 2x2 jumper is definitely closer to a tile than
a plate but is still a modified plate. Worse still, this pack of jumper bricks:
contains no bricks at all.
is clearly a 2x2 plate with two studs removed, but it is a modified tile.
is also a modified tile rather than plate (compare to 6576).
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Exactly, the jumpers always seemed much more tile-like to me than that "tile".
I guess the only relevant answer to this issue is: This was acknowledged by the
previous catmin Stormchaser, he said the concepts of plate and tile needed to
be principally redefined before these things could be classified properly. If
that's also what the new catalog management will do is not yet clear. Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 14:18 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.
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I like this sentence.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 14:27 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.
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I like this sentence.
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Me too.
Well, except for the example, as there are plates with grooves
and tiles/plates variants with and without groove 
(And the jumpers too….)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 14:32 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.
|
I like this sentence.
|
Me too.
Well, except for the example, as there are plates with grooves
and tiles/plates variants with and without groove
(And the jumpers too….)
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In other words there is a mess which will be hard to clarify
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WoutR | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 16:25 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In other words there is a mess which will be hard to clarify
|
Keep it simple. A tile does not have studs. So if it has studs, then it is a
plate.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 17:09 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, WoutR writes:
| | In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In other words there is a mess which will be hard to clarify
|
Keep it simple. A tile does not have studs. So if it has studs, then it is a
plate.
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That's how I see things, also, but we will have to hold off on this debate
for a bit until Marek and I can get our plates cleared off to focus on catalog
projects again.
Marek is currently working through a huge catalog backlog that had accumulated
after Robert's departure, and I am currently in the mix of all the new sets
that were released as of April 1.
I just wanted to let everyone know that Marek and I have not forgotten what Robert
started, and we are keen to get to it in due time.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 17:21 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, randyf writes:
| | In Catalog, WoutR writes:
| | In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In other words there is a mess which will be hard to clarify
|
Keep it simple. A tile does not have studs. So if it has studs, then it is a
plate.
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That's how I see things, also, but we will have to hold off on this debate
for a bit until Marek and I can get our plates cleared off to focus on catalog
projects again.[…]
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Well done 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Teup | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 14:39 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.
|
I like this sentence.
|
Me too.
Well, except for the example, as there are plates with grooves
and tiles/plates variants with and without groove
(And the jumpers too….)
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Yeah... the fact that there's a variation that would span across categories
if you take the groove as the defining factor, kind of kills that idea pretty
effectively.
Anyway, in my opinion it's not a huge deal that it's not perfect. TileMod
and PlateMod are two fairly big categories, nicely sized if you ask me. God forbid
someone would decide to merge them together because there's no principal
distinction possible. I'd rather put up with a bit of inconsistency that's
very easy to learn, than one huge category that is difficult to manage, both
in terms of browsing it online as well as storing it for me and other stores
who have category based sorting..
And we have the forum for venting inconsistency frustrations, which works pretty
well too
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb1237701 | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 15:32 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, Hygrotus writes:
| | In Catalog, Teup writes:
| | Either
way, if you don't have principal characteristics of what constitutes a tile
or plate (for example groove = tile), any classification is going to be inconsistent
and a matter of opinion.
|
I like this sentence.
|
Me too.
Well, except for the example, as there are plates with grooves
and tiles/plates variants with and without groove
(And the jumpers too….)
|
Yeah... the fact that there's a variation that would span across categories
if you take the groove as the defining factor, kind of kills that idea pretty
effectively.
Anyway, in my opinion it's not a huge deal that it's not perfect. TileMod
and PlateMod are two fairly big categories, nicely sized if you ask me. God forbid
someone would decide to merge them together because there's no principal
distinction possible. I'd rather put up with a bit of inconsistency that's
very easy to learn, than one huge category that is difficult to manage, both
in terms of browsing it online as well as storing it for me and other stores
who have category based sorting..
And we have the forum for venting inconsistency frustrations, which works pretty
well too
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Just going to put this out there and wait for the bashing,
Why not put them in both categories?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 16:06 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, dkillgore writes:
| | […]
Just going to put this out there and wait for the bashing,
Why not put them in both categories?
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The database won’t allow it.
A part can only be in one category.
Because they are “categories,” not “tags.”
A tag system was asked for, many times.
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| | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Apr 8, 2019 11:43 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, edk writes:
| | why is a plate modified when is a tile modified?
|
This comes up time and time again and is a great question.
The current answer is "Who knows?"
However, the admins have noted the need to do something. If you look on the Catalog
Roadmap, this project is #8 under the Projects Under Consideration heading:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2476
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 03:12 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| So you taking about parts which won't be moved between categories for now,
insted of discussing this https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1135995
I really would like to hear opinions about if you do want them to be moved
or we just leave them as they are.
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| | | | | | | Author: | RecycledBrick | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 12:36 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Hygrotus | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 12:39 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, RecycledBrick writes:
| | I would like to see the Tile Modified ones that have studs moved to Plate Modified.
I vote yes.
|
For now we don't touch it till we have definitions and project with number
8 on the list will come live.
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=2476
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 14:31 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, RecycledBrick writes:
| | I would like to see the Tile Modified ones that have studs moved to Plate Modified.
I vote yes.
|
I am torn. I feel like having studs is characteristic of the plate and not having
studs is characteristic of the tile. Is it possible to have a new category specifically
for tiles that have some studs and plates that have some flat space? The most
obvious (to me) name for the category would be Jumpers, but I don't really
know how that word came to be used the way Lego uses it.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 15:19 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, axaday writes:
| | In Catalog, RecycledBrick writes:
| | I would like to see the Tile Modified ones that have studs moved to Plate Modified.
I vote yes.
|
I am torn. I feel like having studs is characteristic of the plate and not having
studs is characteristic of the tile. Is it possible to have a new category specifically
for tiles that have some studs and plates that have some flat space? The most
obvious (to me) name for the category would be Jumpers, but I don't really
know how that word came to be used the way Lego uses it.
|
Against.
I don’t know why “jumper” was chosen. The similarity with electrical jumpers
(little wires that “jump” over the main circuits, or little thingies to connect
two plots) is tenuous: yes it’s a connector but everything connects in LEGO.
But I believe “jumper” can be taken to mean that the connection “jumps” half
a stud.
Anyway, “jumper” is well engraved as meaning “offset stud” which the missing-studs
plates and having-studs tiles don’t have.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb1237701 | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 17:57 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, axaday writes:
| | In Catalog, RecycledBrick writes:
| | I would like to see the Tile Modified ones that have studs moved to Plate Modified.
I vote yes.
|
I am torn. I feel like having studs is characteristic of the plate and not having
studs is characteristic of the tile. Is it possible to have a new category specifically
for tiles that have some studs and plates that have some flat space? The most
obvious (to me) name for the category would be Jumpers, but I don't really
know how that word came to be used the way Lego uses it.
|
Against.
I don’t know why “jumper” was chosen. The similarity with electrical jumpers
(little wires that “jump” over the main circuits, or little thingies to connect
two plots) is tenuous: yes it’s a connector but everything connects in LEGO.
But I believe “jumper” can be taken to mean that the connection “jumps” half
a stud.
Anyway, “jumper” is well engraved as meaning “offset stud” which the missing-studs
plates and having-studs tiles don’t have.
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Sylvain, your previous thread-joint reply was appreciated! A Programmer-based
deficiency for sure...
So, truly, what we all need to consider is this:
Is BrickLink, as the premier site for those who have, maybe for the first time,
visited Lego.com to complete sets or begin their life-long passion as a creator
of MOC, or to find long sought after sets from days they remember, to base our
catalogue on Lego.com nomenclature and numbering system to be:
"Buyer Focused" so that they can jump-start their search based on item classifications
and numbers they found off of a set they own or want to recreate...Or, maybe,
just maybe, even more Intuitive! Now that would be something.
Or, wanting to determine the number of categories and number/images to make it
easy to store and access for those selling to pick from to be:
"Seller Focused"
My guess is that there are a lot more first-time potential buyers registering
on here and trying to make sense of what we are doing than long-term hobbyists.
I am always aware of what we may be losing in customer base. Just have a heart
for the ones that you never hear from on the Forum who just can't make sense
of it all...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mfav | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 18:57 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| Yep.
Newbies to this site are told they can find everything here, but the reality
is they're like corpulent bodies with raw meat strapped to them, thrown into
the deep end of the pool where there are sharks with frikkin' lasers!
BrickLink is a very complicated site. Kind of like being strapped into an airplane
cockpit for the first time and, without benefit of any instruction, being told
to fly to a foreign country. There are a lot of things to sort out.
The site needs some genuine marketing savoir faire, plain easy-to-understand
instructions, and a thousand other things. But a good start would be a home page
that says "Welcome to Bricklink" and a big-ass obvious link to "New to Bricklink
Start Here" and a Start Here page with some simple concepts like:
BrickLink is a marketplace where thousands of Lego fans operate independent storefronts.
...and a decent explanation of what that's all about.
BrickLink is a crowdsourced online catalog.
...and a decent explanation of what that's all about.
The Wanted List.
How to buy.
Those four things would go a long way to helping out the newbies. You come here
the first time, it's daunting. Strap tight for your first foray into the
forum.
The other thing, pertinent to the current thread, would be a decent glossary.
That alone ought to help sort out or crystallize concepts relative to language
(plates vs tiles) and other concepts.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb1237701 | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 19:08 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, mfav writes:
| | Yep.
Newbies to this site are told they can find everything here, but the reality
is they're like corpulent bodies with raw meat strapped to them, thrown into
the deep end of the pool where there are sharks with frikkin' lasers!
BrickLink is a very complicated site. Kind of like being strapped into an airplane
cockpit for the first time and, without benefit of any instruction, being told
to fly to a foreign country. There are a lot of things to sort out.
The site needs some genuine marketing savoir faire, plain easy-to-understand
instructions, and a thousand other things. But a good start would be a home page
that says "Welcome to Bricklink" and a big-ass obvious link to "New to Bricklink
Start Here" and a Start Here page with some simple concepts like:
BrickLink is a marketplace where thousands of Lego fans operate independent storefronts.
...and a decent explanation of what that's all about.
BrickLink is a crowdsourced online catalog.
...and a decent explanation of what that's all about.
The Wanted List.
How to buy.
Those four things would go a long way to helping out the newbies. You come here
the first time, it's daunting. Strap tight for your first foray into the
forum.
The other thing, pertinent to the current thread, would be a decent glossary.
That alone ought to help sort out or crystallize concepts relative to language
(plates vs tiles) and other concepts.
|
mfav you are truly awesome!
So, Air Force UPT, Undergraduate Pilot Training:
You are in the bowels of Southern Texas heat- the instructor sits in the back
seat of the two seat Grumman.
Tell you over the helmet mike, "Put your left glove on but leave the right one
off."
Ten minutes in to your first g-Force loop: You, to your instructor, "I'm
not feeling so good..."
He says, "Take your right hand glove."
"Okay", you say.
Next you tell him you're gonna Hurl.
He says, "That's what your right glove it for."
"Okay", you say after purging, "I'm better."
Your instructor says, "Now, put your right glove on."
...as you prepare to land.
True story...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | mhortar | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 21:00 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, mfav writes:
| | The other thing, pertinent to the current thread, would be a decent glossary.
That alone ought to help sort out or crystallize concepts relative to language
(plates vs tiles) and other concepts.
|
A glossary would be a huge help, I imagine. I frequent a number of communities
that have people with varying knowledge of LEGO parts and it's interesting
seeing some of the names they have for various parts. The handful I can remember
easily:
Plates - 'bricks', 'short bricks', 'shorts'
Tiles - 'plates', 'flats'
Wedge - 'wing'
slopes - 'angles'
It would be nice to be able to have a page where someone can search for the term
they are used to and see what the 'official' term is.
Josh
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 19:26 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
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| In Catalog, dkillgore writes:
| | […]
| | Against.
I don’t know why “jumper” was chosen. The similarity with electrical jumpers
(little wires that “jump” over the main circuits, or little thingies to connect
two plots) is tenuous: yes it’s a connector but everything connects in LEGO.
But I believe “jumper” can be taken to mean that the connection “jumps” half
a stud.
Anyway, “jumper” is well engraved as meaning “offset stud” which the missing-studs
plates and having-studs tiles don’t have.
|
Sylvain, your previous thread-joint reply was appreciated! A Programmer-based
deficiency for sure...
So, truly, what we all need to consider is this:
Is BrickLink, as the premier site for those who have, maybe for the first time,
visited Lego.com to complete sets or begin their life-long passion as a creator
of MOC, or to find long sought after sets from days they remember, to base our
catalogue on Lego.com nomenclature and numbering system to be:
"Buyer Focused" so that they can jump-start their search based on item classifications
and numbers they found off of a set they own or want to recreate...Or, maybe,
just maybe, even more Intuitive! Now that would be something.
Or, wanting to determine the number of categories and number/images to make it
easy to store and access for those selling to pick from to be:
"Seller Focused"
My guess is that there are a lot more first-time potential buyers registering
on here and trying to make sense of what we are doing than long-term hobbyists.
I am always aware of what we may be losing in customer base. Just have a heart
for the ones that you never hear from on the Forum who just can't make sense
of it all...
|
Indeed. But what I’m against, and I wasn’t clear, is the use of the term “jumper”
for a tile with studs + plate without studs category.
For me, “jumper” is specific to 3794 (and its variants) and then to 87580 and
then to 34103. That’s only 3 (or 5) parts.
All tiles and plates could well be in a unique category (like they mostly are
in LDraw or LDD) but I don’t want it called “jumper”
The problem verily lies within the strict category system, the lack of a parallel
tag system or at least the possibility for a part to appear in more than one
category.
With such a system, either you have a system that plans for anything and everything,
and you end up with the Dewey Decimal Classification for books, that no one understands
but specialists, or you have a system that needs to change with new elements
or better knowledge on the elements, like Linné’s taxonomy of living beings,
and, well, that no one understands but specialists either
Either way, there’s still a need for a simple way, both for the hoi polloi and
the elite actually, to find a part, or a group of similar parts (whatever “similar”
might mean), in a few clicks.
In a library, the Dewey DC (or another similar system) is used for numbering
the books and the shelves but a patron just needs to talk to a librarian or use
a search tool to find the book they want, they don’t need to know the DDC. And
if a patron browses an alley, they will see similar books, but they won’t see,
for instance, all the books written by the same author if these fall under different
domains.
In a virtual system, like BL, the “patron” can be presented with an “alley” containing
all the plates, or all the parts with pins, or all the 2x2 parts….
In short, what I’m trying to say is you can twist a category system in all the
ways you want, you will still need knowledge to use it, it will still be for
the specialists. To allow newbies to use it, you need a librarian, and this
website should be one.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb1237701 | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 19:31 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Catalog, dkillgore writes:
| | […]
| | Against.
I don’t know why “jumper” was chosen. The similarity with electrical jumpers
(little wires that “jump” over the main circuits, or little thingies to connect
two plots) is tenuous: yes it’s a connector but everything connects in LEGO.
But I believe “jumper” can be taken to mean that the connection “jumps” half
a stud.
Anyway, “jumper” is well engraved as meaning “offset stud” which the missing-studs
plates and having-studs tiles don’t have.
|
Sylvain, your previous thread-joint reply was appreciated! A Programmer-based
deficiency for sure...
So, truly, what we all need to consider is this:
Is BrickLink, as the premier site for those who have, maybe for the first time,
visited Lego.com to complete sets or begin their life-long passion as a creator
of MOC, or to find long sought after sets from days they remember, to base our
catalogue on Lego.com nomenclature and numbering system to be:
"Buyer Focused" so that they can jump-start their search based on item classifications
and numbers they found off of a set they own or want to recreate...Or, maybe,
just maybe, even more Intuitive! Now that would be something.
Or, wanting to determine the number of categories and number/images to make it
easy to store and access for those selling to pick from to be:
"Seller Focused"
My guess is that there are a lot more first-time potential buyers registering
on here and trying to make sense of what we are doing than long-term hobbyists.
I am always aware of what we may be losing in customer base. Just have a heart
for the ones that you never hear from on the Forum who just can't make sense
of it all...
|
Indeed. But what I’m against, and I wasn’t clear, is the use of the term “jumper”
for a tile with studs + plate without studs category.
For me, “jumper” is specific to 3794 (and its variants) and then to 87580 and
then to 34103. That’s only 3 (or 5) parts.
All tiles and plates could well be in a unique category (like they mostly are
in LDraw or LDD) but I don’t want it called “jumper”
The problem verily lies within the strict category system, the lack of a parallel
tag system or at least the possibility for a part to appear in more than one
category.
With such a system, either you have a system that plans for anything and everything,
and you end up with the Dewey Decimal Classification for books, that no one understands
but specialists,
|
LOL
or you have a system that needs to change with new elements
| | or better knowledge on the elements, like Linné’s taxonomy of living beings,
and, well, that no one understands but specialists either
|
(cont.) LOL
| | Either way, there’s still a need for a simple way, both for the hoi polloi and
the elite actually, to find a part, or a group of similar parts (whatever “similar”
might mean), in a few clicks.
In a library, the Dewey DC (or another similar system) is used for numbering
the books and the shelves but a patron just needs to talk to a librarian or use
a search tool to find the book they want, they don’t need to know the DDC. And
if a patron browses an alley, they will see similar books, but they won’t see,
for instance, all the books written by the same author if these fall under different
domains.
In a virtual system, like BL, the “patron” can be presented with an “alley” containing
all the plates, or all the parts with pins, or all the 2x2 parts….
In short, what I’m trying to say is you can twist a category system in all the
ways you want, you will still need knowledge to use it, it will still be for
the specialists. To allow newbies to use it, you need a librarian, and this
website should be one.
|
+++++++++++++1
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | axaday | | Posted: | Apr 9, 2019 20:39 | | Subject: | Re: inconsistencies | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Catalog | |
|
| In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
| | Indeed. But what I’m against, and I wasn’t clear, is the use of the term “jumper”
for a tile with studs + plate without studs category.
For me, “jumper” is specific to 3794 (and its variants) and then to 87580 and
then to 34103. That’s only 3 (or 5) parts.
All tiles and plates could well be in a unique category (like they mostly are
in LDraw or LDD) but I don’t want it called “jumper”
|
Help me come up with a better word. We can be famous together.
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USA, Michigan
United Kingdom, England
France, Île-de-France
Netherlands, Utrecht
Poland, w. Wielkopolskie
