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| | | Author: | Pazzo  | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 06:42 | | Subject: | better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 147 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Discarded | |
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| Hi all,
somehow...(even bigger and experienced sellers) want to sell a set that just
isn't a set!
How much can one take from a set before it doesn't qualify as a set anymore.
After all those years of Bricklink, why aren't there easy rules for this?
I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete, or when a few parts are
gone...it is incomplete....
But listing a set without the box, instructions, minifigs and weapons doesn't
leave more than a handfull of bricks....NOT a set!
for example:
http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?pg=1&itemID=99724&advOpt=Y&sz=100&searchSort=P
when you click on only new sets.... personally I think the first 11 do NOT qualify
as a set!
And I understand when you are a newbee...perhaps you did not know the definition
of a set, but this is getting out of hand!
just my 2 cent incomplet set (it used to be a dollar set, but I took 98 cents
for own use)
be cool and have fun!
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| | | | | Author: | Hunny1 | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 06:59 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete,
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Is it?
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| | | | | | | Author: | Pazzo | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 07:06 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Hunny1 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete,
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Is it?
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If I list a Cafe Corner without the box, it is incomplete, I think we all agree
on that....
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Speciale | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 07:58 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | In Suggestions, Hunny1 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete,
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Is it?
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If I list a Cafe Corner without the box, it is incomplete, I think we all agree
on that....
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if you have a look in the help desk a set is complete if the box is missing .
if there is one part from 0,01 cent missing it is incomplete .
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 08:51 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | If I list a Cafe Corner without the box, it is incomplete, I think we all agree
on that....
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no, we do not all agree.
Currently, according to BL rules, a used set may be called complete when the
box is missing - and that's a situation I fully support.
USING a LEGO set means building it - and you don't need the box for that.
A different issue is the fact that even a used set without INSTRUCTIONS may be
called complete - as long as the lack of original instructions is explicitly
mentioned in the item description.
This is something I strongly disagree with, since for most (if not all) sets
of more than 25-30 parts, it's very hard (or even impossible) to build the
set without the instructions leaflet - which is, from the perspective of a toy
being sold to kids, the primary USE of a LEGO set.
This has been different in former times, and I am not happy that this got changed.
Jan
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | par016 | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 13:32 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| It probably had to do with the fact that all instructions are free electronically.
I'm not saying that makes it right but that was probably the thinking behind
the change.
-Pete
In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | If I list a Cafe Corner without the box, it is incomplete, I think we all agree
on that....
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no, we do not all agree.
Currently, according to BL rules, a used set may be called complete when the
box is missing - and that's a situation I fully support.
USING a LEGO set means building it - and you don't need the box for that.
A different issue is the fact that even a used set without INSTRUCTIONS may be
called complete - as long as the lack of original instructions is explicitly
mentioned in the item description.
This is something I strongly disagree with, since for most (if not all) sets
of more than 25-30 parts, it's very hard (or even impossible) to build the
set without the instructions leaflet - which is, from the perspective of a toy
being sold to kids, the primary USE of a LEGO set.
This has been different in former times, and I am not happy that this got changed.
Jan
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Jan_K | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2014 04:10 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, par016 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Jan_K writes:
| | A different issue is the fact that even a used set without INSTRUCTIONS may be
called complete - as long as the lack of original instructions is explicitly
mentioned in the item description.
This is something I strongly disagree with, since for most (if not all) sets
of more than 25-30 parts, it's very hard (or even impossible) to build the
set without the instructions leaflet - which is, from the perspective of a toy
being sold to kids, the primary USE of a LEGO set.
This has been different in former times, and I am not happy that this got changed.
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| | It probably had to do with the fact that all instructions are free electronically.
I'm not saying that makes it right but that was probably the thinking behind
the change.
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Hi Pete,
that's a good point (if it really applies to ALL sets - I doubt that.) Nevertheless,
the reasoning behind this becomes pretty lame if you try to build a large set
(UCS or modular house, for example) with online instructions only - not only
that the screen resultion may give disappointing display results, but also the
colours are much harder to tell apart when using digital copies, IMHO.
Lat but not least, I prefer to build at a large table with no notebook or laptop
sitting around - and want my kids to follow paper instructions rather than scrolling
through .pdf documents.
Jan
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| | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 07:04 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Many people use it to sell a complete assembly / model from a set, but not the
whole set.
So for example, the Ent from Orthanc could be sold as an incomplete Orthanc set,
or the wagon / car from Emerald Night be sold as an incomplete Emerald Night.
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| | | | | | | Author: | Pazzo | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 07:06 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Many people use it to sell a complete assembly / model from a set, but not the
whole set.
So for example, the Ent from Orthanc could be sold as an incomplete Orthanc set,
or the wagon / car from Emerald Night be sold as an incomplete Emerald Night.
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then it should be a custom lot, but do not list it as a set! It is NOT a set.
Also the priceguide will be affected!
Perhaps a better way to list a custom set would be a possibilty.....
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 08:19 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Many people use it to sell a complete assembly / model from a set, but not the
whole set.
So for example, the Ent from Orthanc could be sold as an incomplete Orthanc set,
or the wagon / car from Emerald Night be sold as an incomplete Emerald Night.
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then it should be a custom lot, but do not list it as a set! It is NOT a set.
Also the priceguide will be affected!
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No it won't as you can exclude incomplete sets. And what is the point of
knowing a sold price for an incomplete set, when you don't know what is missing.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 08:25 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 32 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Many people use it to sell a complete assembly / model from a set, but not the
whole set.
So for example, the Ent from Orthanc could be sold as an incomplete Orthanc set,
or the wagon / car from Emerald Night be sold as an incomplete Emerald Night.
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then it should be a custom lot, but do not list it as a set! It is NOT a set.
Also the priceguide will be affected!
Perhaps a better way to list a custom set would be a possibilty.....
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And given this news ... http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=832598
then it wouldn't be a good idea to waste time listing as a custom lot.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | pumbaugh | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 08:28 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | In Suggestions, mabccc writes:
| | Many people use it to sell a complete assembly / model from a set, but not the
whole set.
So for example, the Ent from Orthanc could be sold as an incomplete Orthanc set,
or the wagon / car from Emerald Night be sold as an incomplete Emerald Night.
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then it should be a custom lot, but do not list it as a set! It is NOT a set.
Also the priceguide will be affected!
Perhaps a better way to list a custom set would be a possibilty.....
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According to the new Rules posted by the CS Team last night, custom is only going
to be for the custom part makers like BrickWarriors and BrickArms and the like.
So it looks like it will all just further limit the ability to post listings
as such.
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| | | | | Author: | edeevo | | Posted: | Jun 30, 2014 13:48 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | Hi all,
somehow...(even bigger and experienced sellers) want to sell a set that just
isn't a set!
How much can one take from a set before it doesn't qualify as a set anymore.
After all those years of Bricklink, why aren't there easy rules for this?
I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete, or when a few parts are
gone...it is incomplete....
But listing a set without the box, instructions, minifigs and weapons doesn't
leave more than a handfull of bricks....NOT a set!
for example:
http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?pg=1&itemID=99724&advOpt=Y&sz=100&searchSort=P
when you click on only new sets.... personally I think the first 11 do NOT qualify
as a set!
And I understand when you are a newbee...perhaps you did not know the definition
of a set, but this is getting out of hand!
just my 2 cent incomplet set (it used to be a dollar set, but I took 98 cents
for own use)
be cool and have fun!
|
I don't really see an issue in this case (with the Maersk Train), provided
the Seller posts an actual photo of what is being sold as a "set"
(such as the ones in the link you provided being sold by Trainsgalore-n-more
and Great Trains)... just using the stock photo with everything in the
set being shown, and only selling a portion of it as a "set" is somewhat a deceptive
selling tactic as far as I'm concerned (or at least laziness on the part
of a Seller)... that's not to say there aren't other "set" examples that
illustrate your point better (I believe that there are), it's just in this
case, I don't see an issue with it so long as a Seller adheres to what I
described above...
Life is Good.
~Ed.
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| | | | | Author: | ektadad5856 | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2014 08:58 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | Hi all,
somehow...(even bigger and experienced sellers) want to sell a set that just
isn't a set!
How much can one take from a set before it doesn't qualify as a set anymore.
After all those years of Bricklink, why aren't there easy rules for this?
I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete, or when a few parts are
gone...it is incomplete....
But listing a set without the box, instructions, minifigs and weapons doesn't
leave more than a handfull of bricks....NOT a set!
for example:
http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?pg=1&itemID=99724&advOpt=Y&sz=100&searchSort=P
when you click on only new sets.... personally I think the first 11 do NOT qualify
as a set!
And I understand when you are a newbee...perhaps you did not know the definition
of a set, but this is getting out of hand!
just my 2 cent incomplete set (it used to be a dollar set, but I took 98 cents
for own use)
be cool and have fun!
|
The more I think about this the more it bothers me. A set has an ID number, just
as a part has a ID number. Is I am selling set 8968 as new in box it should be
just that - Sealed in the Box. It can be Incomplete, say if the box was destroyed,
and New if all the parts are in the numbered bags. Set 8968 has two main items
when assembled. A boat and a "Jetski." I doubt anyone would want to buy the "New,
Complete" set without the 3 minifigs, so it should not be listed that way - it
is not complete. The Boat is not a complete set, if it is needed it could be
listed as a "Complete Assembly" and issued an ID number, then it could be listed
and sold as a Complete Item, assuming it, in fact, had all of the required parts.
I think that by listing "part of a set" as a "complete set" it throws off
the pricing of items, and more importantly I feel, it is only done to throw off
the buyers. Yes, you can describe, you can clarify, you can enclose pictures,
but none of that would be needed if you just listed the item correctly in the
first place. The boat from set 8968 is not the complete set. You are not selling
a complete set, you are selling a collection of parts from a set.
The best way to build trust is to make the process simple and straightforward.
The more qualifiers you add to each item the more complicated it becomes to buy
and sell. As the complication builds the longer it takes to deal with each transaction,
and the more it opens the door to confusion - "What I thought was..." "What I
said was..." "What I meant was..." Set ID 8968-1 Complete, New in Box, Sealed.
(Simple.) Set ID 8968-1 Incomplete, New, The Boat. (Sounds simple - but it is
not the Set.)
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2014 10:04 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, ektadad5856 writes:
| | In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | Hi all,
somehow...(even bigger and experienced sellers) want to sell a set that just
isn't a set!
How much can one take from a set before it doesn't qualify as a set anymore.
After all those years of Bricklink, why aren't there easy rules for this?
I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete, or when a few parts are
gone...it is incomplete....
But listing a set without the box, instructions, minifigs and weapons doesn't
leave more than a handfull of bricks....NOT a set!
for example:
http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?pg=1&itemID=99724&advOpt=Y&sz=100&searchSort=P
when you click on only new sets.... personally I think the first 11 do NOT qualify
as a set!
And I understand when you are a newbee...perhaps you did not know the definition
of a set, but this is getting out of hand!
just my 2 cent incomplete set (it used to be a dollar set, but I took 98 cents
for own use)
be cool and have fun!
|
The more I think about this the more it bothers me. A set has an ID number, just
as a part has a ID number. Is I am selling set 8968 as new in box it should be
just that - Sealed in the Box. It can be Incomplete, say if the box was destroyed,
and New if all the parts are in the numbered bags. Set 8968 has two main items
when assembled. A boat and a "Jetski." I doubt anyone would want to buy the "New,
Complete" set without the 3 minifigs, so it should not be listed that way - it
is not complete. The Boat is not a complete set, if it is needed it could be
listed as a "Complete Assembly" and issued an ID number, then it could be listed
and sold as a Complete Item, assuming it, in fact, had all of the required parts.
I think that by listing "part of a set" as a "complete set" it throws off
the pricing of items, and more importantly I feel, it is only done to throw off
the buyers. Yes, you can describe, you can clarify, you can enclose pictures,
but none of that would be needed if you just listed the item correctly in the
first place. The boat from set 8968 is not the complete set. You are not selling
a complete set, you are selling a collection of parts from a set.
The best way to build trust is to make the process simple and straightforward.
The more qualifiers you add to each item the more complicated it becomes to buy
and sell. As the complication builds the longer it takes to deal with each transaction,
and the more it opens the door to confusion - "What I thought was..." "What I
said was..." "What I meant was..." Set ID 8968-1 Complete, New in Box, Sealed.
(Simple.) Set ID 8968-1 Incomplete, New, The Boat. (Sounds simple - but it is
not the Set.)
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Just use the "exclude incomplete sets" box, and you will not see incomplete sets.
If you see one listed as a complete set when it is clearly not, report it.
The problem with complete assemblies is that someone has to catalogue them all
too, which will more than double the size of the sets section of the catalogue
(assuming every set has at least one assembly). Not that many assemblies are
sold on here, especially larger ones, as it takes quite a long time to sort them
out and in reality, not that many people want them due to the removal of minifigs.
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| | | | | Author: | Proprietor | | Posted: | Jul 1, 2014 10:16 | | Subject: | Re: better definition for incomplete sets require | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| There are different rules for listing new and used sets as complete or incomplete.
New Sets
Complete - Contents are brand new and may have been removed from their plastic
bags and handled for inventorying purposes only. Includes all contents that originally
came with set including extra parts, stickers, instructions (if any) and original
box/packaging.
Incomplete - Contents are brand new and may have been removed from their plastic
bags and handled for inventorying purposes or during the removal of items from
the set. Set is missing some contents, instructions or original box/packaging.
Description should state what exactly is missing.
Used Sets - The set has been opened, inner bags are no longer intact and or was
previously built. If the parts do show excessive wear, discoloration, excessive
scratches, other marks,etc. this should be noted, as well.
Complete - Set contains all parts necessary to build all of the models (including
alternate models) in the instructions but does not have to contain the original
box/packaging and/or extra parts. If the set is missing instructions, the description
must state so. If the set did not come with instructions then the set should
include all parts listed in the picture inventory which is located on the box
or bucket. The set must include all original stickers used on the model either
still on the sticker sheet or applied.
Incomplete - Set is missing some contents. Description should state what exactly
is missing.
Full rules here: http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=102
And as someone pointed out, you can easily exclude incomplete sets from the Price
Guide with one click, and you can even set it that way by default:
http://www.bricklink.com/priceGuideSettings.asp
So nothing to fix here, other than sets that are listed incorrectly. Now if
you want to change a rule, let's talk about incomplete minifigures....
In Suggestions, Pazzo writes:
| | Hi all,
somehow...(even bigger and experienced sellers) want to sell a set that just
isn't a set!
How much can one take from a set before it doesn't qualify as a set anymore.
After all those years of Bricklink, why aren't there easy rules for this?
I understand when a box is missing, it is incomplete, or when a few parts are
gone...it is incomplete....
But listing a set without the box, instructions, minifigs and weapons doesn't
leave more than a handfull of bricks....NOT a set!
for example:
http://www.bricklink.com/search.asp?pg=1&itemID=99724&advOpt=Y&sz=100&searchSort=P
when you click on only new sets.... personally I think the first 11 do NOT qualify
as a set!
And I understand when you are a newbee...perhaps you did not know the definition
of a set, but this is getting out of hand!
just my 2 cent incomplet set (it used to be a dollar set, but I took 98 cents
for own use)
be cool and have fun!
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Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
Germany, Sachsen
Belgium
USA, New York
United Kingdom, England
