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| | | Author: | ToriHada  | | Posted: | May 1, 2014 23:24 | | Subject: | Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 503 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| Please implement a new policy of immediately temporarily suspending the buying
privileges of any member who files a chargeback claiming unauthorized use of
their PayPal or credit card or account. This is NOT to punish the buyer. It is
to protect the buyer from further unauthorized use of his PayPal card or account.
And to protect sellers against whoever is using the buyer's card without
the buyer's permission.
A chargeback is different and more serious than a reversal. For one thing, unauthorized
use of a PayPal account or credit card is a crime. Furthermore, while you can
defend yourself from a reversal by showing proof of delivery, you have no defense
to a chargeback. Even proof of delivery will not help you because the issue is
not whether the buyer received the order but whether the buyer even placed the
order at all.
Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website. This is necessary not only to protect sellers, but to also
protect the buyer from continued unauthorized use of his card. Buying privileges
should only be restored when the buyer contacts BrickLink to let it know that
he has resolved the matter with PayPal or his credit card company and that he
will thereafter be responsible for all future charges made on that or another
card.
Again, unauthorized use is a much more serious (and criminal) matter. It should
be treated differently then a mere reversal claim of non-receipt.
Thor
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| | | | | Author: | Brickbeast | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 00:22 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 124 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| For those who might not understand, an overseas buyer makes a credit card purchase
for items in your store. He paid. You ship. Once received, he calls his credit
card company for a chargeback. Since he is their customer, they provide the chargeback.
The buyer gets his money back, your product and your postage.
It is very easy to do, and it is a big issue for one of my family members in
another business. He just got taken for 2K.
The credit card company assists with the fraud since you are not their customer.
He defeats it by using wire transfers prior to shipment, but that is very hard
to do on small sales items.
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| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 00:35 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 114 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Brickbeast writes:
| | For those who might not understand, an overseas buyer makes a credit card purchase
for items in your store. He paid. You ship. Once received, he calls his credit
card company for a chargeback. Since he is their customer, they provide the chargeback.
The buyer gets his money back, your product and your postage.
It is very easy to do, and it is a big issue for one of my family members in
another business. He just got taken for 2K.
The credit card company assists with the fraud since you are not their customer.
He defeats it by using wire transfers prior to shipment, but that is very hard
to do on small sales items.
|
Thank you. This is one example of many. The most common example I have seen is
where a buyer claims someone hacked into their PayPal and/or BrickLink account
and is making purchases and spending their money without their authorization.
In such cases, the buyer would obviously benefit if BrickLink at least temporarily
made it impossible for the hacker to continue using the buyer's card or account.
If a card or account has been hacked and is being illegally used without the
owner's authorization, we should not have to wait for multiple claims or
further criminal acts before taking preventive action.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SasquatchBricks | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 01:37 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Brickbeast writes:
| | For those who might not understand, an overseas buyer makes a credit card purchase
for items in your store. He paid. You ship. Once received, he calls his credit
card company for a chargeback. Since he is their customer, they provide the chargeback.
The buyer gets his money back, your product and your postage.
It is very easy to do, and it is a big issue for one of my family members in
another business. He just got taken for 2K.
The credit card company assists with the fraud since you are not their customer.
He defeats it by using wire transfers prior to shipment, but that is very hard
to do on small sales items.
|
Thank you. This is one example of many. The most common example I have seen is
where a buyer claims someone hacked into their PayPal and/or BrickLink account
and is making purchases and spending their money without their authorization.
In such cases, the buyer would obviously benefit if BrickLink at least temporarily
made it impossible for the hacker to continue using the buyer's card or account.
If a card or account has been hacked and is being illegally used without the
owner's authorization, we should not have to wait for multiple claims or
further criminal acts before taking preventive action.
Thor
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Funny you post this, I just got two small chargeback disputes today from a BO
customer, $3 and $5 orders, the customer plainly got the items with tracking,
PayPal states it could take up to 75 days for resolution. Just really amazes
me that people really want something for nothing, we all work hard to provide
good parts at good prices and this is the thanks we get. Unbelievable!!
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 01:44 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
Funny you post this, I just got two small chargeback disputes today from a BO
customer, $3 and $5 orders, the customer plainly got the items with tracking,
PayPal states it could take up to 75 days for resolution. Just really amazes
me that people really want something for nothing, we all work hard to provide
good parts at good prices and this is the thanks we get. Unbelievable!!
|
Was either buyer located in Texas? At least two other sellers there had chargeback
claims filed against them today from the same buyer in Texas.
This only illustrates further why chargebacks should be handled differently from
and more promptly than reversals.
If the buyer is trying to scam you, he is not going to claim to his credit card
company that only one order out of several placed around the same time was unauthorized.
He is going to claim ALL were unauthorized.
If the buyer truly is the victim of a hacked account, the scammer is going to
place as many orders as possible before the card or account can no longer be
used.
In either case, further use of that card or account should be immediately suspended,
at least temporarily.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SasquatchBricks | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 02:03 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
Funny you post this, I just got two small chargeback disputes today from a BO
customer, $3 and $5 orders, the customer plainly got the items with tracking,
PayPal states it could take up to 75 days for resolution. Just really amazes
me that people really want something for nothing, we all work hard to provide
good parts at good prices and this is the thanks we get. Unbelievable!!
|
Was either buyer located in Texas? At least two other sellers there had chargeback
claims filed against them today from the same buyer in Texas.
This only illustrates further why chargebacks should be handled differently from
and more promptly than reversals.
If the buyer is trying to scam you, he is not going to claim to his credit card
company that only one order out of several placed around the same time was unauthorized.
He is going to claim ALL were unauthorized.
If the buyer truly is the victim of a hacked account, the scammer is going to
place as many orders as possible before the card or account can no longer be
used.
In either case, further use of that card or account should be immediately suspended,
at least temporarily.
Thor
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Yes, it's the TX buyer, and yes I agree with you, he had made 4 orders so
if it was a case of a minor ordering then the parent would have done a blanket
chargeback on everything not pick and choose the orders, which for me were tiny
but we should look at the bigger problem that this could pose.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SasquatchBricks | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 02:10 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
Funny you post this, I just got two small chargeback disputes today from a BO
customer, $3 and $5 orders, the customer plainly got the items with tracking,
PayPal states it could take up to 75 days for resolution. Just really amazes
me that people really want something for nothing, we all work hard to provide
good parts at good prices and this is the thanks we get. Unbelievable!!
|
Was either buyer located in Texas? At least two other sellers there had chargeback
claims filed against them today from the same buyer in Texas.
This only illustrates further why chargebacks should be handled differently from
and more promptly than reversals.
If the buyer is trying to scam you, he is not going to claim to his credit card
company that only one order out of several placed around the same time was unauthorized.
He is going to claim ALL were unauthorized.
If the buyer truly is the victim of a hacked account, the scammer is going to
place as many orders as possible before the card or account can no longer be
used.
In either case, further use of that card or account should be immediately suspended,
at least temporarily.
Thor
|
Yes, it's the TX buyer, and yes I agree with you, he had made 4 orders so
if it was a case of a minor ordering then the parent would have done a blanket
chargeback on everything not pick and choose the orders, which for me were tiny
but we should look at the bigger problem that this could pose.
|
Not to mention they left positive feedback for all they ordered through not a
week after they received their goods, appears that somebody wants free lego at
our expense. Hopefully PayPal puts 1+1 together and look at their multiple claims
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 02:39 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
Not to mention they left positive feedback for all they ordered through not a
week after they received their goods, appears that somebody wants free lego at
our expense. Hopefully PayPal puts 1+1 together and look at their multiple claims.
|
But wouldn't multiple instances of unauthorized use be the norm for someone
making this claim? If multiple orders are being placed over several days, it
seems more suspicious to claim that only one of those orders was unauthorized
and that all the others were OK. No, if someone is going to claim their account
was hacked then they are going to claim that all activity since the hack was
unauthorized. In fact, that is a defining feature of identity theft and credit
card theft. Quickly use the identity and credit card as much and as often as
possible until the theft is found out and reported and the card blocked. When
credit card companies receive a report from a customer that their card or account
is being used without their permission, they don't wait weeks for three or
more claims before freezing the account and invalidating the card. They shut
it down right away. BrickLink should do the same in these types of cases.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legofoolz_me | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 06:46 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
Funny you post this, I just got two small chargeback disputes today from a BO
customer, $3 and $5 orders, the customer plainly got the items with tracking,
PayPal states it could take up to 75 days for resolution. Just really amazes
me that people really want something for nothing, we all work hard to provide
good parts at good prices and this is the thanks we get. Unbelievable!!
|
Was either buyer located in Texas? At least two other sellers there had chargeback
claims filed against them today from the same buyer in Texas.
This only illustrates further why chargebacks should be handled differently from
and more promptly than reversals.
If the buyer is trying to scam you, he is not going to claim to his credit card
company that only one order out of several placed around the same time was unauthorized.
He is going to claim ALL were unauthorized.
If the buyer truly is the victim of a hacked account, the scammer is going to
place as many orders as possible before the card or account can no longer be
used.
In either case, further use of that card or account should be immediately suspended,
at least temporarily.
Thor
|
I just got a chargeback from a buyer in Texas!
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legofoolz_me | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 06:52 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
Funny you post this, I just got two small chargeback disputes today from a BO
customer, $3 and $5 orders, the customer plainly got the items with tracking,
PayPal states it could take up to 75 days for resolution. Just really amazes
me that people really want something for nothing, we all work hard to provide
good parts at good prices and this is the thanks we get. Unbelievable!!
|
Was either buyer located in Texas? At least two other sellers there had chargeback
claims filed against them today from the same buyer in Texas.
This only illustrates further why chargebacks should be handled differently from
and more promptly than reversals.
If the buyer is trying to scam you, he is not going to claim to his credit card
company that only one order out of several placed around the same time was unauthorized.
He is going to claim ALL were unauthorized.
If the buyer truly is the victim of a hacked account, the scammer is going to
place as many orders as possible before the card or account can no longer be
used.
In either case, further use of that card or account should be immediately suspended,
at least temporarily.
Thor
|
I just got a chargeback from a buyer in Texas!
|
this buyer in TX also left positive feedback, and left feedback for 9 others
the same day. I contacted a couple of the buyers and they all said the same
thing, they had a chargeback as well with positive feedback..feedback was "thank
you" If this person lives in Houston, I have a visit to Houston on mothers day
weekend.. I have his address which is only 6 doors away from where I am going
to be going.....should I?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 08:30 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| | In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| |
I just got a chargeback from a buyer in Texas!
|
this buyer in TX also left positive feedback, and left feedback for 9 others
the same day. I contacted a couple of the buyers and they all said the same
thing, they had a chargeback as well with positive feedback..feedback was "thank
you"
|
I am puzzled by something. Has this buyer been deleting all feedback he has given
to sellers against whom he filed chargebacks? I checked your feedback profiles
and could not find this buyer.
In your case, your feedback profile shows that you have not received or given
any feedback as a seller since 2011. So did this buyer remove the positive feedback
he gave you? And did you remove yours?
If this buyer is making multiple chargebacks and claiming use of his account
was unauthorized so many times, PLEASE do others a great service by publicly
naming him here so other sellers can take the necessary precautions to at least
temporarily block any "unauthorized" orders from this buyer.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legofoolz_me | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 08:37 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| | In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| |
I just got a chargeback from a buyer in Texas!
|
this buyer in TX also left positive feedback, and left feedback for 9 others
the same day. I contacted a couple of the buyers and they all said the same
thing, they had a chargeback as well with positive feedback..feedback was "thank
you"
|
I am puzzled by something. Has this buyer been deleting all feedback he has given
to sellers against whom he filed chargebacks? I checked your feedback profiles
and could not find this buyer.
In your case, your feedback profile shows that you have not received or given
any feedback as a seller since 2011. So did this buyer remove the positive feedback
he gave you? And did you remove yours?
If this buyer is making multiple chargebacks and claiming use of his account
was unauthorized so many times, PLEASE do others a great service by publicly
naming him here so other sellers can take the necessary precautions to at least
temporarily block any "unauthorized" orders from this buyer.
Thor
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I sell on fleabay, but buy on here for my projects. But, I crossed the conclusion
that it is the same person, and I have confirmed it with others. I updated
my feedback on Ebay. look up luxurylawns1 on ebay, you will see that
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 08:44 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 22:03 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| |
I sell on fleabay, but buy on here for my projects. But, I crossed the conclusion
that it is the same person, and I have confirmed it with others. I updated
my feedback on Ebay. look up luxurylawns1 on ebay, you will see that
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OK, now I understand. You, Mach and Jos are NOT talking about a BrickLink buyer.
This all happened off BrickLink. That is good to know.
Thor
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UPDATE: I found out from publicly available information that the buyer making
this recent slew of chargeback claims is this one:
http://www.bricklink.com/feedback.asp?u=DavidIzaguirre
Same username on BL and BO. Sellers may want to take precautions to protect themselves
and this buyer from further unauthorized use of his account.
Thor
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | donja_nl | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 06:58 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Today I also had a claim for 6 USD from a texas buyer.
For an order 6 weeks ago and everything seemed oké.
I also left positive feedback.
Not a big amount of money, but no way I can defend myself against it.
And that doesn't give me a good feeling.
I provided Paypal all the necessary information, so I hope you all will do that
too.
Jos
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legofoolz_me | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 07:01 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, donja_nl writes:
| | Today I also had a claim for 6 USD from a texas buyer.
For an order 6 weeks ago and everything seemed oké.
I also left positive feedback.
Not a big amount of money, but no way I can defend myself against it.
And that doesn't give me a good feeling.
I provided Paypal all the necessary information, so I hope you all will do that
too.
Jos
|
I don't want to give the actual address but does this texas buyer live on
a street with a name similar to Edsell?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | donja_nl | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 07:08 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Yes,
See PM (personal message).
Jos
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legofoolz_me | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 07:13 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, donja_nl writes:
| | Yes,
See PM (personal message).
Jos
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no message received yet
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | donja_nl | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 07:17 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| (N/A) - Message was sent to recipient's e-mail address only
This is the message I see when I check my send messages.
Jos
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legofoolz_me | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 07:22 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, donja_nl writes:
| | (N/A) - Message was sent to recipient's e-mail address only
This is the message I see when I check my send messages.
Jos
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I have his full name, email address, address, paypal name, which is different
from the name he has listed. anybody in the Houston area that wants to verify
my information, I will gladly send it to you.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legofoolz_me | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 07:20 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| | In Suggestions, donja_nl writes:
| | Yes,
See PM (personal message).
Jos
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no message received yet
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I've dug into his purchase history on FLEABAY and he has done this to a lot
of people. His history is almost all Lego purchases.... I left a follow-up
feedback on the ebay username davidizaguirre10 with a warning message. He
is unverified on paypal now, so nobody has a stand against these chargebacks.
I am not in the position that all you in, I only had an email with electronic
files to build train cars, so if any of you had gotten taken for train parts
or a lot of door rail 1x2 parts, this is the same guy.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | donja_nl | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 07:24 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 63 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | 4 tan colored windows |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SasquatchBricks | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 10:31 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, legofoolz writes:
| | In Suggestions, donja_nl writes:
| | Today I also had a claim for 6 USD from a texas buyer.
For an order 6 weeks ago and everything seemed oké.
I also left positive feedback.
Not a big amount of money, but no way I can defend myself against it.
And that doesn't give me a good feeling.
I provided Paypal all the necessary information, so I hope you all will do that
too.
Jos
|
I don't want to give the actual address but does this texas buyer live on
a street with a name similar to Edsell?
|
Yes
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | TheBrickGuys | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 01:44 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 83 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | | Thank you. This is one example of many. The most common example I have seen is
where a buyer claims someone hacked into their PayPal and/or BrickLink account
and is making purchases and spending their money without their authorization.
In such cases, the buyer would obviously benefit if BrickLink at least temporarily
made it impossible for the hacker to continue using the buyer's card or account.
If a card or account has been hacked and is being illegally used without the
owner's authorization, we should not have to wait for multiple claims or
further criminal acts before taking preventive action.
Thor
|
What benefit is there for the hacker under your scenario? If he places an order
using a hacked BL account and then hacks the persons PayPal account to pay for
it then wont the order just go the persons address that was hacked? Not that
would be good in any way, but I just don't see this actually happening unless
the hacker has the order sent to his address which I don't think he would
because this would give a direct link to him.
What am I missing?
Jim
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 02:30 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 89 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, TheBrickGuys writes:
| |
What benefit is there for the hacker under your scenario? If he places an order
using a hacked BL account and then hacks the persons PayPal account to pay for
it then wont the order just go the persons address that was hacked? Not that
would be good in any way, but I just don't see this actually happening unless
the hacker has the order sent to his address which I don't think he would
because this would give a direct link to him.
What am I missing?
|
If the claim is bogus, the benefit is that the buyer gets free LEGO.
If the claim is legitimate, the benefit to the hacker is the satisfaction he
gets in causing mischief or problems for others. The hacker does not want the
LEGO for himself and is not stupid enough to give his own address. Instead, he
wants to cause as much trouble as possible. Either because of a personal vendetta
or because he gets some excitement or thrill from the hacking.
Then there are those hackers who do this for a profit. For example, they will
ship goods from a hacked account to one of the hacker's own buyers (sort
of like the LEGO dropship scam). Or they will ship items to themselves (under
a fake name) at an address where many individuals have access to the mail (such
as a large company, school, or other public place), or the unlocked mailbox of
a house or apartment that is unoccupied or where the occupants are away on extended
vacation.
Regardless of any benefit, the fact is that these claims happen. And when someone
claims their account or card is being used without their authorization, there
is no reason why that account or card should not at least be temporarily suspended
as soon as possible. To protect the buyer and other sellers.
One case I recall happened a few years ago right here on BrickLink. Over the
course of several days, multiple sellers posted that they had chargeback claims
filed against them by the same member. The member finally appeared and claimed
his BrickLink and PayPal accounts had been hacked. The hacker had changed his
account passwords. The buyer had to actually request that BrickLink suspend his
account to stop further orders and chargeback claims. But by then it was too
late for some sellers. Some posted that BrickLink should have acted right away
to suspend the account when they received the first claim that the account was
used without authorization.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SasquatchBricks | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 02:37 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, TheBrickGuys writes:
| |
What benefit is there for the hacker under your scenario? If he places an order
using a hacked BL account and then hacks the persons PayPal account to pay for
it then wont the order just go the persons address that was hacked? Not that
would be good in any way, but I just don't see this actually happening unless
the hacker has the order sent to his address which I don't think he would
because this would give a direct link to him.
What am I missing?
|
If the claim is bogus, the benefit is that the buyer gets free LEGO.
If the claim is legitimate, the benefit to the hacker is the satisfaction he
gets in causing mischief or problems for others. The hacker does not want the
LEGO for himself and is not stupid enough to give his own address. Instead, he
wants to cause as much trouble as possible. Either because of a personal vendetta
or because he gets some excitement or thrill from the hacking.
Then there are those hackers who do this for a profit. For example, they will
ship goods from a hacked account to one of the hacker's own buyers (sort
of like the LEGO dropship scam). Or they will ship items to themselves (under
a fake name) at an address where many individuals have access to the mail (such
as a large company, school, or other public place), or the unlocked mailbox of
a house or apartment that is unoccupied or where the occupants are away on extended
vacation.
Regardless of any benefit, the fact is that these claims happen. And when someone
claims their account or card is being used without their authorization, there
is no reason why that account or card should not at least be temporarily suspended
as soon as possible. To protect the buyer and other sellers.
One case I recall happened a few years ago right here on BrickLink. Over the
course of several days, multiple sellers posted that they had chargeback claims
filed against them by the same member. The member finally appeared and claimed
his BrickLink and PayPal accounts had been hacked. The hacker had changed his
account passwords. The buyer had to actually request that BrickLink suspend his
account to stop further orders and chargeback claims. But by then it was too
late for some sellers. Some posted that BrickLink should have acted right away
to suspend the account when they received the first claim that the account was
used without authorization.
Thor
|
It just sucks for all of us trying to provide a service and this is the kinda
slap in the face we don't need when doing such, not to mention I'm crabby
because I'm stuck in WA state trying to pass 2 kidney stones, can't go
back to Guam because we don't have a Urologist on island currently and this
clown has to wreck an even worse mood of mine.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 02:45 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
It just sucks for all of us trying to provide a service and this is the kinda
slap in the face we don't need when doing such, not to mention I'm crabby
because I'm stuck in WA state trying to pass 2 kidney stones, can't go
back to Guam because we don't have a Urologist on island currently and this
clown has to wreck an even worse mood of mine.
|
Oh man, kidney stones... You have my sympathies. That was the absolute worst
pain of my life. It was constant never-ending agony. My wife told me "Now you
have some idea of what childbirth feels like." Perhaps. But labor did not last
for 3 or 4 days without stop. Nor did it involve urinating red hot lava through
a strainer. I wish you a quick recovery.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SasquatchBricks | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 02:54 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 45 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
It just sucks for all of us trying to provide a service and this is the kinda
slap in the face we don't need when doing such, not to mention I'm crabby
because I'm stuck in WA state trying to pass 2 kidney stones, can't go
back to Guam because we don't have a Urologist on island currently and this
clown has to wreck an even worse mood of mine.
|
Oh man, kidney stones... You have my sympathies. That was the absolute worst
pain of my life. It was constant never-ending agony. My wife told me "Now you
have some idea of what childbirth feels like." Perhaps. But labor did not last
for 3 or 4 days without stop. Nor did it involve urinating red hot lava through
a strainer. I wish you a quick recovery.
Thor
|
Thanks, luckily I am at my in-laws in transit and hopefully I can pass these
nuggets quick, I have lego to get back to
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | calebfishn | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 08:39 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
It just sucks for all of us trying to provide a service and this is the kinda
slap in the face we don't need when doing such, not to mention I'm crabby
because I'm stuck in WA state trying to pass 2 kidney stones, can't go
back to Guam because we don't have a Urologist on island currently and this
clown has to wreck an even worse mood of mine.
|
Oh man, kidney stones... You have my sympathies. That was the absolute worst
pain of my life. It was constant never-ending agony. My wife told me "Now you
have some idea of what childbirth feels like." Perhaps. But labor did not last
for 3 or 4 days without stop. Nor did it involve urinating red hot lava through
a strainer. I wish you a quick recovery.
Thor
|
I had kidney stones. Spent 13 hours in excruciating pain in an Ontario Canada
emergency waiting room before a doctor finally saw me, and did nothing but tell
me I should go home and come back tomorrow. Women friends tell me that in their
experience, kidney stones are worse than labor pains, and I believe them.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | legoman77 | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 16:49 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, calebfishn writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, mach1baby1973 writes:
| |
It just sucks for all of us trying to provide a service and this is the kinda
slap in the face we don't need when doing such, not to mention I'm crabby
because I'm stuck in WA state trying to pass 2 kidney stones, can't go
back to Guam because we don't have a Urologist on island currently and this
clown has to wreck an even worse mood of mine.
|
Oh man, kidney stones... You have my sympathies. That was the absolute worst
pain of my life. It was constant never-ending agony. My wife told me "Now you
have some idea of what childbirth feels like." Perhaps. But labor did not last
for 3 or 4 days without stop. Nor did it involve urinating red hot lava through
a strainer. I wish you a quick recovery.
Thor
|
I had kidney stones. Spent 13 hours in excruciating pain in an Ontario Canada
emergency waiting room before a doctor finally saw me, and did nothing but tell
me I should go home and come back tomorrow. Women friends tell me that in their
experience, kidney stones are worse than labor pains, and I believe them.
|
Can you sell them on eBay?
John P
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | bb53904 | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 03:07 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please implement a new policy of immediately temporarily suspending the buying
privileges of any member who files a chargeback claiming unauthorized use of
their PayPal or credit card or account. This is NOT to punish the buyer. It is
to protect the buyer from further unauthorized use of his PayPal card or account.
And to protect sellers against whoever is using the buyer's card without
the buyer's permission.
A chargeback is different and more serious than a reversal. For one thing, unauthorized
use of a PayPal account or credit card is a crime. Furthermore, while you can
defend yourself from a reversal by showing proof of delivery, you have no defense
to a chargeback. Even proof of delivery will not help you because the issue is
not whether the buyer received the order but whether the buyer even placed the
order at all.
Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website. This is necessary not only to protect sellers, but to also
protect the buyer from continued unauthorized use of his card. Buying privileges
should only be restored when the buyer contacts BrickLink to let it know that
he has resolved the matter with PayPal or his credit card company and that he
will thereafter be responsible for all future charges made on that or another
card.
Again, unauthorized use is a much more serious (and criminal) matter. It should
be treated differently then a mere reversal claim of non-receipt.
Thor
|
How is BrickLink going to receive this information?
How could I be sure that it was provided in a secure manner?
If a Seller is providing a Buyer's credit card numbers to BrickLink, the
Seller may have violated the Buyer's privacy rights. My Credit Card information
is NOT part of the data that BrickLink is allowed to collect or share.
BrickLink specifically states here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919
Item 11
(BrickLink)..ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ERROR, OMISSION, INTERRUPTION,
DELETION, DEFECT, DELAY IN OPERATION OR TRANSMISSION, COMMUNICATIONS FAILURE,
THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OF IDENTITY OR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO A SUBSCRIBER, OR ALTERATION
THEREOF.
And yes I know that it is further stated that
CERTAIN STATE LAWS DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE EXCLUSION
OF LIMITATION OF CERTAIN DAMAGES, IF THESE LAWS APPLY TO YOU, SOME OR ALL OF
THE ABOVE DISCLAIMERS, EXCLUSIONS OR LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU, AND YOU
SHOULD SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS.
While I sympathize with Sellers who are placed in this situation, it is not the
Seller's right to involve BrickLink by transmitting Credit Card information.
It should be reported to the appropriate authorities, who can contact BrickLink
for any information that BrickLink is legally required to provide.
Thea
Just stating my views and concerns!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 03:33 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Thea writes:
| |
How is BrickLink going to receive this information?
How could I be sure that it was provided in a secure manner?
If a Seller is providing a Buyer's credit card numbers to BrickLink, the
Seller may have violated the Buyer's privacy rights. My Credit Card information
is NOT part of the data that BrickLink is allowed to collect or share.
BrickLink specifically states here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919
Item 11
(BrickLink)..ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ERROR, OMISSION, INTERRUPTION,
DELETION, DEFECT, DELAY IN OPERATION OR TRANSMISSION, COMMUNICATIONS FAILURE,
THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OF IDENTITY OR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO A SUBSCRIBER, OR ALTERATION
THEREOF.
And yes I know that it is further stated that
CERTAIN STATE LAWS DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE EXCLUSION
OF LIMITATION OF CERTAIN DAMAGES, IF THESE LAWS APPLY TO YOU, SOME OR ALL OF
THE ABOVE DISCLAIMERS, EXCLUSIONS OR LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU, AND YOU
SHOULD SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS.
While I sympathize with Sellers who are placed in this situation, it is not the
Seller's right to involve BrickLink by transmitting Credit Card information.
It should be reported to the appropriate authorities, who can contact BrickLink
for any information that BrickLink is legally required to provide.
Thea
Just stating my views and concerns!
|
There is no need for the seller to provide credit card numbers or any other such
details to BrickLink. All the seller has to do is forward the buyer's chargeback
notice, message or email claiming unauthorized use of their account or card.
If the buyer himself states that his account or card are being used without his
permission, that should be enough for BrickLink to immediately act in temporarily
suspending buying privileges to protect the buyer and sellers from further unauthorized
use.
And to anyone here who is hit with an unauthorized use chargeback claim, you
would be doing a great service to your buyer and other sellers if you posted
about it in the forum. This way, if BrickLink does not act, sellers can temporarily
block such buyer or whoever may be using that hacked account. Again, not as punishment.
But to protect themselves AND the buyer from further unauthorized use of their
account.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb53904 | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 03:43 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Thea writes:
| |
How is BrickLink going to receive this information?
How could I be sure that it was provided in a secure manner?
If a Seller is providing a Buyer's credit card numbers to BrickLink, the
Seller may have violated the Buyer's privacy rights. My Credit Card information
is NOT part of the data that BrickLink is allowed to collect or share.
BrickLink specifically states here
http://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=1919
Item 11
(BrickLink)..ASSUMES NO RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ERROR, OMISSION, INTERRUPTION,
DELETION, DEFECT, DELAY IN OPERATION OR TRANSMISSION, COMMUNICATIONS FAILURE,
THEFT OR DESTRUCTION OF IDENTITY OR UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO A SUBSCRIBER, OR ALTERATION
THEREOF.
And yes I know that it is further stated that
CERTAIN STATE LAWS DO NOT ALLOW LIMITATIONS ON IMPLIED WARRANTIES OR THE EXCLUSION
OF LIMITATION OF CERTAIN DAMAGES, IF THESE LAWS APPLY TO YOU, SOME OR ALL OF
THE ABOVE DISCLAIMERS, EXCLUSIONS OR LIMITATIONS MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU, AND YOU
SHOULD SEEK LEGAL COUNSEL TO UNDERSTAND YOUR RIGHTS.
While I sympathize with Sellers who are placed in this situation, it is not the
Seller's right to involve BrickLink by transmitting Credit Card information.
It should be reported to the appropriate authorities, who can contact BrickLink
for any information that BrickLink is legally required to provide.
Thea
Just stating my views and concerns!
|
There is no need for the seller to provide credit card numbers or any other such
details to BrickLink. All the seller has to do is forward the buyer's chargeback
notice, message or email claiming unauthorized use of their account or card.
If the buyer himself states that his account or card are being used without his
permission, that should be enough for BrickLink to immediately act in temporarily
suspending buying privileges to protect the buyer and sellers from further unauthorized
use.
And to anyone here who is hit with an unauthorized use chargeback claim, you
would be doing a great service to your buyer and other sellers if you posted
about it in the forum. This way, if BrickLink does not act, sellers can temporarily
block such buyer or whoever may be using that hacked account. Again, not as punishment.
But to protect themselves AND the buyer from further unauthorized use of their
account.
Thor
|
I quote your suggestion...
| | Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
|
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website.
How can BrickLink prevent the use of a particular card without having the number
of the card?
Thea
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 03:46 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Thea writes:
| |
I quote your suggestion...
| | Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
|
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website.
How can BrickLink prevent the use of a particular card without having the number
of the card?
Thea
|
You are right. Forget the reference to stopping use of a "particular card". Just
immediately suspend buying privileges until the buyer clears things up with PayPal
or his credit card company.
Thor
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | bb53904 | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 04:59 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Thea writes:
| |
I quote your suggestion...
| | Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
|
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website.
How can BrickLink prevent the use of a particular card without having the number
of the card?
Thea
|
You are right. Forget the reference to stopping use of a "particular card". Just
immediately suspend buying privileges until the buyer clears things up with PayPal
or his credit card company.
Thor
|
Thank you for recognizing that it was ill-phrased.
It still leaves me with a bad feeling about my privacy rights, if a Seller can
determine that my legitimate charge-back can affect my BrickLink privileges.
By the time the Seller notifies BrickLink, I may have already "cleared it up",
and I will be put through unnecessary stress.
I have already had to deal with the triggers that credit card companies have
put in place since the Target fiasco. It happened at a LEGO store even, where
I have a record of many purchases.
I voted No.
Thea
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | FigBits | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 08:22 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, Thea writes:
| | In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, Thea writes:
| |
I quote your suggestion...
| | Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
|
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website.
How can BrickLink prevent the use of a particular card without having the number
of the card?
Thea
|
You are right. Forget the reference to stopping use of a "particular card". Just
immediately suspend buying privileges until the buyer clears things up with PayPal
or his credit card company.
Thor
|
Thank you for recognizing that it was ill-phrased.
It still leaves me with a bad feeling about my privacy rights, if a Seller can
determine that my legitimate charge-back can affect my BrickLink privileges.
By the time the Seller notifies BrickLink, I may have already "cleared it up",
and I will be put through unnecessary stress.
I have already had to deal with the triggers that credit card companies have
put in place since the Target fiasco. It happened at a LEGO store even, where
I have a record of many purchases.
I voted No.
Thea
|
The suggestion appears to be "when the *buyer* claims" their Paypal or credit
card was used fraudulently, then buying priviliges should be suspended. That
makes sense.
The idea that someone's buying privileges should be suspended when a *seller*
says they are getting a chargeback... that's a different story, and I can
understand the reluctance to vote for that.
--
Marc.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 08:40 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, FigBits writes:
| |
The suggestion appears to be "when the *buyer* claims" their Paypal or credit
card was used fraudulently, then buying priviliges should be suspended. That
makes sense.
|
This is correct. The buyer's statement that their account has been hijacked
or is being used without their authorization is all that should be needed for
BrickLink to act.
| | The idea that someone's buying privileges should be suspended when a *seller*
says they are getting a chargeback... that's a different story, and I can
understand the reluctance to vote for that.
|
Well, I am not sure there is a difference. A chargeback *IS* unauthorized use.
It is not the same as a reversal (which has nothing to do with this suggestion).
This suggestion deals only with chargebacks. And, unless I am mistaken, my understanding
is that all chargebacks claim unauthorized use of a card or account. So the fact
that the buyer chose a chargeback over a reversal is a statement from the buyer
that his account has been hijacked or is being used with his authorization.
If I am wrong, and chargebacks can involve situations other than an account being
used without authorization, then I agree there is the difference you note and
this suggestion should not apply to those other chargeback situations.
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | bb469871 | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 14:05 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 123 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| I can certainly understand your concerns about this kind of fraudulent account
use and trying to protect both the buyers and the sellers. However, I don't
know that we need a new policy as much as including this scenario in an existing
policy. I discussed this with Admin Sean and we came to the conclusion that this
kind of situation is already acceptable to report through the Problem Order
or Problem Member pages. The admins will consider temporarily suspending an account
for things like under age use and incomplete account information, so something
like fraudulent purchases would certainly be a reasonable reason for the admins
to take action. I'll discuss this with the CS Team and look into expanding
the guidelines currently on the site.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please implement a new policy of immediately temporarily suspending the buying
privileges of any member who files a chargeback claiming unauthorized use of
their PayPal or credit card or account. This is NOT to punish the buyer. It is
to protect the buyer from further unauthorized use of his PayPal card or account.
And to protect sellers against whoever is using the buyer's card without
the buyer's permission.
A chargeback is different and more serious than a reversal. For one thing, unauthorized
use of a PayPal account or credit card is a crime. Furthermore, while you can
defend yourself from a reversal by showing proof of delivery, you have no defense
to a chargeback. Even proof of delivery will not help you because the issue is
not whether the buyer received the order but whether the buyer even placed the
order at all.
Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website. This is necessary not only to protect sellers, but to also
protect the buyer from continued unauthorized use of his card. Buying privileges
should only be restored when the buyer contacts BrickLink to let it know that
he has resolved the matter with PayPal or his credit card company and that he
will thereafter be responsible for all future charges made on that or another
card.
Again, unauthorized use is a much more serious (and criminal) matter. It should
be treated differently then a mere reversal claim of non-receipt.
Thor
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 14:46 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | I can certainly understand your concerns about this kind of fraudulent account
use and trying to protect both the buyers and the sellers. However, I don't
know that we need a new policy as much as including this scenario in an existing
policy. I discussed this with Admin Sean and we came to the conclusion that this
kind of situation is already acceptable to report through the Problem Order
or Problem Member pages. The admins will consider temporarily suspending an account
for things like under age use and incomplete account information, so something
like fraudulent purchases would certainly be a reasonable reason for the admins
to take action. I'll discuss this with the CS Team and look into expanding
the guidelines currently on the site.
|
Thank you for confirming this Amanda. It is reassuring to know you and your team
are on top of things. 
Thor
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | bb53904 | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2014 02:59 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 88 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | I can certainly understand your concerns about this kind of fraudulent account
use and trying to protect both the buyers and the sellers. However, I don't
know that we need a new policy as much as including this scenario in an existing
policy. I discussed this with Admin Sean and we came to the conclusion that this
kind of situation is already acceptable to report through the Problem Order
or Problem Member pages. The admins will consider temporarily suspending an account
for things like under age use and incomplete account information, so something
like fraudulent purchases would certainly be a reasonable reason for the admins
to take action. I'll discuss this with the CS Team and look into expanding
the guidelines currently on the site.
|
Thank you for confirming this Amanda. It is reassuring to know you and your team
are on top of things.
Thor
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------------------
cross-referencing from another thread
In Problem Order, fosterbengoshi writes:
Yet another reason to vote YES for this suggestion:
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=817702
Unauthorized use claims are very different than claims for Items Not Received
or Significantly Not As Described. If a member's account is being used without
authorization all activity on that account should be immediately suspended until
the member regains control of his account. This is necessary not only to protect
other members, but also the member whose account is being used without authorization.
Thor
In Problem Order, Thea writes:
Please be sure to read cs_amanda's reply to your suggestion.
http://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=817895
Thea
In Problem Order, fosterbengoshi writes:
I don't find this reply particularly helpful or encouraging. It does not
really promise anything other than, "we'll look into it if it is reported,
when we get around to it."
--------------------------------------
Slightly different attitude between then and now.
Thea
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | Jul 14, 2014 12:27 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | bb53904 | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 19:51 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 78 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Thanks for your post Amanda.
I think one of my concerns about this suggestion was the information that was
shared during the discussion. Posting of how a scam can be committed is like
wielding a two-sided sword. It can reveal new methods to scammers at the same
time it educates consumers.
Several years ago, I had to do a very large (over $2000) charge back on one of
my credit cards. One of the first things I was told was not to discuss details
with anyone but the credit card company, my lawyer, and law enforcement officials.
I was able to provide enough information to the appropriate people to make a
successful court case.
If a Seller passes on details of a chargeback, they could be hurting the credit
card company's chance to recover, not only the Seller's money, but other
victims' money as well.
Thea
Always Learning!
In Suggestions, cs_amanda writes:
| | I can certainly understand your concerns about this kind of fraudulent account
use and trying to protect both the buyers and the sellers. However, I don't
know that we need a new policy as much as including this scenario in an existing
policy. I discussed this with Admin Sean and we came to the conclusion that this
kind of situation is already acceptable to report through the Problem Order
or Problem Member pages. The admins will consider temporarily suspending an account
for things like under age use and incomplete account information, so something
like fraudulent purchases would certainly be a reasonable reason for the admins
to take action. I'll discuss this with the CS Team and look into expanding
the guidelines currently on the site.
Thanks
Amanda
CS Team
In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please implement a new policy of immediately temporarily suspending the buying
privileges of any member who files a chargeback claiming unauthorized use of
their PayPal or credit card or account. This is NOT to punish the buyer. It is
to protect the buyer from further unauthorized use of his PayPal card or account.
And to protect sellers against whoever is using the buyer's card without
the buyer's permission.
A chargeback is different and more serious than a reversal. For one thing, unauthorized
use of a PayPal account or credit card is a crime. Furthermore, while you can
defend yourself from a reversal by showing proof of delivery, you have no defense
to a chargeback. Even proof of delivery will not help you because the issue is
not whether the buyer received the order but whether the buyer even placed the
order at all.
Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website. This is necessary not only to protect sellers, but to also
protect the buyer from continued unauthorized use of his card. Buying privileges
should only be restored when the buyer contacts BrickLink to let it know that
he has resolved the matter with PayPal or his credit card company and that he
will thereafter be responsible for all future charges made on that or another
card.
Again, unauthorized use is a much more serious (and criminal) matter. It should
be treated differently then a mere reversal claim of non-receipt.
Thor
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|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | ScootersBricks | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 14:19 | | Subject: | Re: Chargebacks: Immediately Suspend Buying Privs | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
|
| In Suggestions, fosterbengoshi writes:
| | Please implement a new policy of immediately temporarily suspending the buying
privileges of any member who files a chargeback claiming unauthorized use of
their PayPal or credit card or account. This is NOT to punish the buyer. It is
to protect the buyer from further unauthorized use of his PayPal card or account.
And to protect sellers against whoever is using the buyer's card without
the buyer's permission.
A chargeback is different and more serious than a reversal. For one thing, unauthorized
use of a PayPal account or credit card is a crime. Furthermore, while you can
defend yourself from a reversal by showing proof of delivery, you have no defense
to a chargeback. Even proof of delivery will not help you because the issue is
not whether the buyer received the order but whether the buyer even placed the
order at all.
Therefore, to protect both buyers and sellers, when a buyer claims their PayPal
or credit card was used without their authorization, BrickLink should immediately
suspend the ability of this buyer to purchase or at least use that particular
card on this website. This is necessary not only to protect sellers, but to also
protect the buyer from continued unauthorized use of his card. Buying privileges
should only be restored when the buyer contacts BrickLink to let it know that
he has resolved the matter with PayPal or his credit card company and that he
will thereafter be responsible for all future charges made on that or another
card.
Again, unauthorized use is a much more serious (and criminal) matter. It should
be treated differently then a mere reversal claim of non-receipt.
Thor
|
Quick idea:
If the buyer files a chargeback, send them to collections. If their identity
was stolen, a simple police report should be enough proof that they aren't
at fault. But if they are just lying as part of a scam, their credit will at
least take a hit.
|
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| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | ToriHada | | Posted: | May 2, 2014 14:50 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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USA, North Carolina
Netherlands, Zuid-Holland
Canada, Ontario
