|
 |
| | | Author: | Bibosstone  | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 13:01 | | Subject: | EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 355 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Dear Sir or Madam,
I do not understand Bricklink.
In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
I don't understand the system here, are you penalized on Bricklink and banned
after the third revocation?
Is this platform not adapted to European law?
Can you please explain to me whether I am misunderstanding this or how it works
here on Bricklink works?
Bricklink Quote:
(Non-Paying Buyer alert has been initiated for order #xxxxon
If payment is not initiated, the seller (xxx) will have an option to cancel the
order which will result in the following consequence for the buyer (xxx):
* 1 cancelled order - Warning
* 2 cancelled orders - Warning
* 3 cancelled orders - Buyer privileges permanently revoked )
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 13:34 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| | (Cancelled) |
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 13:35 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 103 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | Dear Sir or Madam,
I do not understand Bricklink.
In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
I don't understand the system here, are you penalized on Bricklink and banned
after the third revocation?
Is this platform not adapted to European law?
Can you please explain to me whether I am misunderstanding this or how it works
here on Bricklink works?
Bricklink Quote:
(Non-Paying Buyer alert has been initiated for order #xxxxon
If payment is not initiated, the seller (xxx) will have an option to cancel the
order which will result in the following consequence for the buyer (xxx):
* 1 cancelled order - Warning
* 2 cancelled orders - Warning
* 3 cancelled orders - Buyer privileges permanently revoked )
|
Try and pull back to view the matter more big picture if you can, for your own
peace of mind if for no other reason
1) You're potentially transacting with folks around the globe and not just
within the EU
2) When you joined (it's after-all, a membership contract) you may have not
agreed with the TOS, but you did accept them This is how the proprietors of
the site have chosen to best operate globally.
Opening salvo within the TOS
"By clicking the “I ACCEPT” box at the end of these Terms, registering
as a user, or using the Site you acknowledge and agree that you have reviewed,
understand, and accept these Terms. If you are agreeing to these Terms as an
individual, then the term “you” refers to you individually. If you are agreeing
to these Terms as a representative of an entity, then you represent that you
have the authority to bind that entity and the term “you” refers to that entity.
If you do not agree with all of these Terms, do not click the “I ACCEPT” box
at the end of these terms and do not register or otherwise use the Site.
Your access to and use of this Site and all the content made available on and
through the Site (such content to include, but is not limited to, information,
data, designs, material, images, video or other content) is subject to these
Terms and all applicable laws.
If you have previously agreed to any terms of service applicable to the Site
or the features, functions or services available via the Site, such terms of
service are hereby terminated and are no longer in force or in effect. However,
such terminated terms of service shall apply to all transactions between or among
buyers, sellers, and designers, that were fully completed prior to the date you
accepted these Terms"
-popsicle
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Ber_i | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:16 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 64 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| From the same TOS:
Buyer Terms:
As a Buyer, if you place an order in a store on the Site, then you are obligated
to complete the purchase, subject to any rights you may have to cancel an order
under applicable law or under these Terms.
And
As a Buyer, you can request an order be cancelled for the following reasons:
…
Applicable law gives you the right to cancel the order
So you can accept the TOS with no problem and still be protected by European
consumers protection laws.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:19 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Ber_i writes:
| | From the same TOS:
Buyer Terms:
As a Buyer, if you place an order in a store on the Site, then you are obligated
to complete the purchase, subject to any rights you may have to cancel an order
under applicable law or under these Terms.
And
As a Buyer, you can request an order be cancelled for the following reasons:
…
Applicable law gives you the right to cancel the order
So you can accept the TOS with no problem and still be protected by European
consumers protection laws.
|
After payment is made and accepted?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:45 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, popsicle writes:
| | In Help, Ber_i writes:
| | From the same TOS:
Buyer Terms:
As a Buyer, if you place an order in a store on the Site, then you are obligated
to complete the purchase, subject to any rights you may have to cancel an order
under applicable law or under these Terms.
And
As a Buyer, you can request an order be cancelled for the following reasons:
…
Applicable law gives you the right to cancel the order
So you can accept the TOS with no problem and still be protected by European
consumers protection laws.
|
After payment is made and accepted? Yes, even weeks after it is delivered.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:38 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 80 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | In Help, popsicle writes:
| | In Help, Ber_i writes:
| | From the same TOS:
Buyer Terms:
As a Buyer, if you place an order in a store on the Site, then you are obligated
to complete the purchase, subject to any rights you may have to cancel an order
under applicable law or under these Terms.
And
As a Buyer, you can request an order be cancelled for the following reasons:
…
Applicable law gives you the right to cancel the order
So you can accept the TOS with no problem and still be protected by European
consumers protection laws.
|
After payment is made and accepted?
|
Yes, even weeks after it is delivered.
|
First off, to that I say yikes!
EU consumer law as with any laws around the world, is the province of the people
and their respective nations. EU law is not binding elsewhere if not otherwise
accepted elsewhere. Iow, we here live by the laws created by the representatives
we elect to do just that, and not by the laws other people of the world create
for themselves. Put another way, it's not binding nor enforceable elsewhere.
But now back down to Earth for me There is compliance with law (money returned
as the seller did) and then there are the TOS for the adherence of the entire
membership. Othewise, it just doesn't work. Strikes for behavior on a membership
site, have little to do with the satisfying of any law, as I see it.
Happy to be proven wrong and learn. Sure this is eye-opening for others too
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 06:59 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| | | EU consumer law as with any laws around the world, is the province of the people
and their respective nations. EU law is not binding elsewhere if not otherwise
accepted elsewhere. Iow, we here live by the laws created by the representatives
we elect to do just that, and not by the laws other people of the world create
for themselves. Put another way, it's not binding nor enforceable elsewhere.
But now back down to Earth for me There is compliance with law (money returned
as the seller did) and then there are the TOS for the adherence of the entire
membership. Othewise, it just doesn't work. Strikes for behavior on a membership
site, have little to do with the satisfying of any law, as I see it.
Happy to be proven wrong and learn. Sure this is eye-opening for others too
|
I think the direction of travel is actually the opposite. We have seen it with
GDPR laws, tax laws, the German packaging law. That is, if an American seller
wants to sell in the EU (and by advertising to the EU, that is what they are
doing), then they should abide by EU consumer laws. If they don't want the
transaction to be covered by EU consumer laws, then don't sell to te EU.
This is pretty much what happened in the early days of GDPR, even relatively
minor things like cookie tracking for advertising. Many US (and elsewhere) based
sites blocked access to EU viewers as they were not GDPR compliant at the time
and it was easier to block users than resolve the issue quickly. It wouldn't
surprise me if the same happens with consumer laws, that if a US company wants
to access customers in the EU then they have to comply with EU consumer law.
They have the option to not advertise to EU customers. This doesn't always
help the buyer, of course. Quite a few ebay sellers stopped shipping to Germany
due to the packaging law registration costs. Of course, if the German consumer
chooses instead to pretend to not be in the EU, using a VPN forwebsite access
or a US reshipper for their delivery address, then that is (presumably) different.
There are of course other barriers to returns. I buy a fair bit of hobby electronics
from China. If I decided to return a cheap product, the cost for me to return
it is likely to be more than the cost of the product. So the business can easily
comply by saying the consumer can return at their expense but are unlikely to
have to deal with returns.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | LegoLDK | | Posted: | Apr 2, 2024 10:55 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, popsicle writes:
| | 2) When you joined (it's after-all, a membership contract) you may have not
agreed with the TOS, but you did accept them This is how the proprietors of
the site have chosen to best operate globally.
|
A check box does not allow an opt out of legal rights and obligations.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Apr 2, 2024 11:00 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, LegoLDK writes:
| | In Help, popsicle writes:
| | 2) When you joined (it's after-all, a membership contract) you may have not
agreed with the TOS, but you did accept them This is how the proprietors of
the site have chosen to best operate globally.
|
A check box does not allow an opt out of legal rights and obligations.
|
The buyer got their refund to which they were entitled to. Site specific rights
such as the ability to place orders, feedback, etc are not cover by legal rights.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 13:57 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 84 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | I do not understand Bricklink.
|
It's BrickLink, it's an USA based company.
It has Terms you agreed with when you signed up.
| | In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
|
Yes/no.
This is fine for iPods, but here a single lot or part can be as low as below
1 euro cent (€0.01).
Which means cost of labor of picking/packaging is far higher than the value of
the parts.
Picking of a part: 30 seconds of a €15 salary cost in EU is already €0.12
In short, at some extent and depending the case, an order on BrickLink can technically
be a service and not a sale of goods.
And those laws you're talking about don't apply the same for a service.
Basically you can't cancel a service when it's been made for you.
But it's not a good move from the seller to set you an NPB alert.
He should have discussed with you if the picking work was already done.
I'd say on BrickLink, avoid cancelling after having paid.
You aren't supposed to be impulsive when there can be so much work involved.
Some order will take HOURS to be prepared.
Try to discuss this with the seller? Or just accept the NPB, you don't really
care.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:30 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| (As usual: IANAL, I’m not talking for BL, nor for LEGO, and I may be a cat.)
In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
It's BrickLink, it's an USA based company.
|
That doen’t absolve EU sellers to adhere to EU laws. OP seems to have only bought
from German sellers so far.
| | […]
In short, at some extent and depending the case, an order on BrickLink can technically
be a service and not a sale of goods.
|
No. Goods are never a service.
What could be argued is that BL parts orders are “goods made to order or clearly
personalised.” Those are exempt from the “cooling-off” period.
Sellers can also:
— not refund shipping,
— have restocking fees,
if it’s clearly stated in the terms before the sale.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:37 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 43 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | What could be argued is that BL parts orders are “goods made to order or clearly
personalised.” Those are exempt from the “cooling-off” period.
|
This, exactly.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 04:37 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 46 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| | | What could be argued is that BL parts orders are “goods made to order or clearly
personalised.” Those are exempt from the “cooling-off” period.
|
It used to be that lego.com PAB orders were not returnable. They have changed
their rules so that they are now returnable so long as the whole PAB order is
returned. So if LEGO have relented on their 'no PAB returns' line, presumably
there is some legal reason behind it.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WhiteHorseMatt | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 05:27 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | | | What could be argued is that BL parts orders are “goods made to order or clearly
personalised.” Those are exempt from the “cooling-off” period.
|
It used to be that lego.com PAB orders were not returnable. They have changed
their rules so that they are now returnable so long as the whole PAB order is
returned. So if LEGO have relented on their 'no PAB returns' line, presumably
there is some legal reason behind it.
|
The 'goods made to order' exemption used to be stated on LEGO's website
for Pick a Brick. I'd be highly surprised if it wasn't removed due to
a challenge on right to withdraw.
It's worth noting that right to withdraw only applies to consumers. So if
a seller buys from another seller, distance selling regulations don't apply
in the same way.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Stellar | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 06:41 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, WhiteHorseMatt writes:
| | In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | | | What could be argued is that BL parts orders are “goods made to order or clearly
personalised.” Those are exempt from the “cooling-off” period.
|
It used to be that lego.com PAB orders were not returnable. They have changed
their rules so that they are now returnable so long as the whole PAB order is
returned. So if LEGO have relented on their 'no PAB returns' line, presumably
there is some legal reason behind it.
|
The 'goods made to order' exemption used to be stated on LEGO's website
for Pick a Brick. I'd be highly surprised if it wasn't removed due to
a challenge on right to withdraw.
It's worth noting that right to withdraw only applies to consumers. So if
a seller buys from another seller, distance selling regulations don't apply
in the same way.
|
Or they just eat the cost of them as returns request could be very very low,
that will help their Customer Service award.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Ra | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 07:05 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| But the EU invoicing requirements need to be met for it to be a B2B transaction.
It means a seller has to submit an invoice with both the supplier and buyers
VAT numbers on it, along with other info. Also e-invoicing is required in italy
and a few other countries are making this a requirement in the next few years
for B2B transactions. If the requirements are not met ithe sale defaults to a
B2C transaction. I haven't seen a European bricklink invoice to tell if it
meets EU invoicing requirements.
https://taxation-customs.ec.europa.eu/vat-invoicing-rules_en
In Help, WhiteHorseMatt writes:
| | In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | | | What could be argued is that BL parts orders are “goods made to order or clearly
personalised.” Those are exempt from the “cooling-off” period.
|
It used to be that lego.com PAB orders were not returnable. They have changed
their rules so that they are now returnable so long as the whole PAB order is
returned. So if LEGO have relented on their 'no PAB returns' line, presumably
there is some legal reason behind it.
|
The 'goods made to order' exemption used to be stated on LEGO's website
for Pick a Brick. I'd be highly surprised if it wasn't removed due to
a challenge on right to withdraw.
It's worth noting that right to withdraw only applies to consumers. So if
a seller buys from another seller, distance selling regulations don't apply
in the same way.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Ziegelmeister | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:10 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| |
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
|
Wait; you received the package and returned it? And they’re hitting you with
an NPB?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Bibosstone | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:12 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 72 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Ziegelmeister writes:
| | In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| |
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
|
Wait; you received the package and returned it? And they’re hitting you with
an NPB?
|
Thank you for reading correctly. Yes, that's exactly what happened! And now
I don't know what to do!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:44 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 58 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| | | Thank you for reading correctly. Yes, that's exactly what happened! And now
I don't know what to do!
|
You accept the NPB and move on.
You ordered goods, paid for them, the seller supplied them and you chose to return
them under your EU right to cancel and the seller refunded. They have complied
fully with the EU law. EU law doesn't guarantee you the right to buy in future.
If you mess a seller around, then they are entitled to stop you buying in the
future. Similarly, EU law doesn't cover feedback. The seller is entitled
to leave you negative feedback, without breaking any EU laws.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Ziegelmeister | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 16:08 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, yorbrick writes:
| | | | Thank you for reading correctly. Yes, that's exactly what happened! And now
I don't know what to do!
|
You accept the NPB and move on.
You ordered goods, paid for them, the seller supplied them and you chose to return
them under your EU right to cancel and the seller refunded. They have complied
fully with the EU law. EU law doesn't guarantee you the right to buy in future.
If you mess a seller around, then they are entitled to stop you buying in the
future. Similarly, EU law doesn't cover feedback. The seller is entitled
to leave you negative feedback, without breaking any EU laws.
|
That's interesting. I never would have interpreted the use of NPB this way.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 19:18 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 59 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| You account is a little over a year old. You left 25 feedbacks as a buyer so
far. Of these, 5 were neutral. All 5 mention brick quality.
Are your standards unrealistic or do you have the worst luck of all the Lego
buyers in Germany?
In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | In Help, Ziegelmeister writes:
| | In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| |
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
|
Wait; you received the package and returned it? And they’re hitting you with
an NPB?
|
Thank you for reading correctly. Yes, that's exactly what happened! And now
I don't know what to do!
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Ziegelmeister | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 20:29 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, zorbanj writes:
| | You account is a little over a year old. You left 25 feedbacks as a buyer so
far. Of these, 5 were neutral. All 5 mention brick quality.
Are your standards unrealistic or do you have the worst luck of all the Lego
buyers in Germany?
|
I was looking at that. And they're mostly in regards to used bricks.
I think it would be wise to buy new from now on.
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | crazylegoman | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:14 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 71 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| I think you need to provide another piece of information for people to understand
the situation better: Why did you order something and then send it back? Was
the order damaged or incomplete?
David
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Bibosstone | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:24 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, crazylegoman writes:
| | I think you need to provide another piece of information for people to understand
the situation better: Why did you order something and then send it back? Was
the order damaged or incomplete?
David
|
please understand that as a consumer you have extensive rights in europe.
if you do not like the quality of the goods, you can return them to the retailer
for any reason. this is normal day-to-day business in europe.
but sometimes there are dealers who do not like this. the only thing i want to
discuss here is the "Non-Paying Buyer Alert system" has been abused by
the dealer and what i can do about it and this is a problem for all buyers from
Europe if they buy from European dealers.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1977_mauro | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:31 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| | | if you do not like the quality of the goods, you can return them to the retailer
for any reason. this is normal day-to-day business in europe.
|
-- New LEGO bricks are commodieties, not more, not less, what do you mean
by the quality?
Reading your messages so far one could mean that you sent the package back for
no reason.
Mauro
In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | In Help, crazylegoman writes:
| | I think you need to provide another piece of information for people to understand
the situation better: Why did you order something and then send it back? Was
the order damaged or incomplete?
David
|
please understand that as a consumer you have extensive rights in europe.
if you do not like the quality of the goods, you can return them to the retailer
for any reason. this is normal day-to-day business in europe.
but sometimes there are dealers who do not like this. the only thing i want to
discuss here is the "Non-Paying Buyer Alert system" has been abused by
the dealer and what i can do about it and this is a problem for all buyers from
Europe if they buy from European dealers.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:40 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, 1977_mauro writes:
| | | | if you do not like the quality of the goods, you can return them to the retailer
for any reason. this is normal day-to-day business in europe.
|
-- New LEGO bricks are commodieties, not more, not less, what do you mean
by the quality?
Reading your messages so far one could mean that you sent the package back for
no reason.
|
First, they said they have a reason.
Second, even if you/we/anyone don’t agree with the reason, according to EU laws,
they can return without any reason.
IOW: that’s not the problem. The problem is abuse of the NPB system.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Bibosstone | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:42 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Help, 1977_mauro writes:
| | | | if you do not like the quality of the goods, you can return them to the retailer
for any reason. this is normal day-to-day business in europe.
|
-- New LEGO bricks are commodieties, not more, not less, what do you mean
by the quality?
Reading your messages so far one could mean that you sent the package back for
no reason.
|
First, they said they have a reason.
Second, even if you/we/anyone don’t agree with the reason, according to EU laws,
they can return without any reason.
IOW: that’s not the problem. The problem is abuse of the NPB system.
|
thank you for understanding the facts
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:56 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| |
IOW: that’s not the problem. The problem is abuse of the NPB system.
|
And the real question is: can this abuse be prevented? I think not as most of
the 'rules' here are still based on a set of values of a collective community.
This abuse of the NPB system shows its weakness.
Hope it can be case-specifically fixed by @Admin_Russell.
System fix would be better, but which...?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:16 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, StarBrick writes:
| | In Help, SylvainLS writes:
| |
IOW: that’s not the problem. The problem is abuse of the NPB system.
|
And the real question is: can this abuse be prevented? I think not as most of
the 'rules' here are still based on a set of values of a collective community.
This abuse of the NPB system shows its weakness.
Hope it can be case-specifically fixed by @Admin_Russell.
System fix would be better, but which...?
|
Well, some have proposed counting the number of cancellations, either to remove
buying priviledges or only warn sellers.
I don’t know if that’s way to go or if there’s another solution.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 14:49 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | In Help, crazylegoman writes:
| | I think you need to provide another piece of information for people to understand
the situation better: Why did you order something and then send it back? Was
the order damaged or incomplete?
David
|
please understand that as a consumer you have extensive rights in europe.
if you do not like the quality of the goods, you can return them to the retailer
for any reason. this is normal day-to-day business in europe.
but sometimes there are dealers who do not like this. the only thing i want to
discuss here is the "Non-Paying Buyer Alert system" has been abused by
the dealer and what i can do about it and this is a problem for all buyers from
Europe if they buy from European dealers.
|
It has not been abused. Tge seller refunded you according to the law. However
your right to cancel is totally different to the right for a seller or marketplace
to refuse service and stop you buying if you place many orders and keep returning
them, even though you are entitled to return them.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Bibosstone | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:07 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 56 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| | | It has not been abused. Tge seller refunded you according to the law. However
your right to cancel is totally different to the right for a seller or marketplace
to refuse service and stop you buying if you place many orders and keep returning
them, even though you are entitled to return them.
|
Your argument is understandable.
However, this is not a case where a buyer has not paid!
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | tonnic | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:11 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 54 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| It is a strange way of dealing with a returned order.
The seller did the right thing in getting the order returned and in refunding.
All according to EU regulations but, in all fairness, they are only for business
to customers.
In my opinion when you are selling on Bricklink you should act like a business
due to the fact a buyer cannot know if you are a professional or not. Therefore
this seller did the right thing up to a certain level.
Starting an NPB shouldn’t have been done by the seller and is most likely not
the way to do.
Maybe the seller wanted to avoid non positive feedback (that you seem to give
quite easily)?
The EU regulations go no further than protection of the buyer and the possibility
of returning goods without mentioning a reason. It does not protect a buyer from
receiving an NPB, being stoplisted by whoever the seller in person or whatever
the company is.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 03:39 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, tonnic writes:
| |
In my opinion when you are selling on Bricklink you should act like a business
due to the fact a buyer cannot know if you are a professional or not. Therefore
this seller did the right thing up to a certain level.
|
Your argument doesn't stand.
When at VAT number or a Chamber of Commerce number is shown in the terms/splash
pages, one can be certain (at least one can check!) whether the seller is a 'business'
or not.
And 'professional' is a strongly overrated: a volunteer at the Voedselbank
can be very professional and still not get paid for the voluntary work he/she
does.
If you mean 'professional' in a way to get money from your actions, that's
completely different from work done 'as a professional': skilled, open
to reflection and feedback and always transparently working.
But hey, that's completely off-topic here !
|
|
|
| | | | | |
| | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:37 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 122 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
|
Location:  USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
 |
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | Dear Sir or Madam,
I do not understand Bricklink.
In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
I don't understand the system here, are you penalized on Bricklink and banned
after the third revocation?
Is this platform not adapted to European law?
Can you please explain to me whether I am misunderstanding this or how it works
here on Bricklink works?
Bricklink Quote:
(Non-Paying Buyer alert has been initiated for order #xxxxon
If payment is not initiated, the seller (xxx) will have an option to cancel the
order which will result in the following consequence for the buyer (xxx):
* 1 cancelled order - Warning
* 2 cancelled orders - Warning
* 3 cancelled orders - Buyer privileges permanently revoked )
|
Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
Either party has the ability to leave feedback in these cases if they are unhappy
with the order.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:41 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
Seems fair to me!
Thank you for your time for this buyer, Russell.
But BTW what are you doing on BrickLink Forum on a Saturday???
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:44 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
Seems fair to me!
Thank you for your time for this buyer, Russell.
|
+1
| | But BTW what are you doing on BrickLink Forum on a Saturday???
|
Hiding eggs?
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | Admin_Russell | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:47 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 99 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
|
BrickLink
ID CardAdmin_Russell
|
| Location: USA, California |
| Member Since |
Contact |
Type |
Status |
| May 9, 2017 |
|
Admin |
|
|
| BrickLink Administrator |
|
| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
Seems fair to me!
Thank you for your time for this buyer, Russell.
But BTW what are you doing on BrickLink Forum on a Saturday???
|
There are several of us that keep an eye on things outside of regular working
hours, mostly due to the fraud issue we have been having. I am generally the
only one who posts, though.
As a user of BrickLink, for years I have always read the Forum like one would
read a newspaper every day, just to keep up. For me it, it is more interesting
than a lot of the traditional news.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:54 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | […]
There are several of us that keep an eye on things outside of regular working
hours, mostly due to the fraud issue we have been having. I am generally the
only one who posts, though.
As a user of BrickLink, for years I have always read the Forum like one would
read a newspaper every day, just to keep up. For me it, it is more interesting
than a lot of the traditional news.
|
So, no eggs? 
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 16:14 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | | | But BTW what are you doing on BrickLink Forum on a Saturday???
|
There are several of us that keep an eye on things outside of regular working
hours, mostly due to the fraud issue we have been having. I am generally the
only one who posts, though.
|
You're very welcome. We're I guess all feel better when you're not
far from us
Thank you.
| | As a user of BrickLink, for years I have always read the Forum like one would
read a newspaper every day, just to keep up. For me it, it is more interesting
than a lot of the traditional news.
|
Yep - apart those posts of pizza fanatics... I'm sure you'll agree with
this! 
Please have a fine Easter weekend!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | zorbanj | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 08:57 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| |
As a user of BrickLink, for years I have always read the Forum like one would
read a newspaper every day, just to keep up. For me it, it is more interesting
than a lot of the traditional news.
|
Me too! I do wish more users would post though. Not sure how much if the user
base knows about the forums, especially newer members.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 09:22 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 67 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, zorbanj writes:
| | […] Not sure how much if the user
base knows about the forums, especially newer members.
|
“What? ForumS? There’s another forum?!”
“What? Another? Because there’s a forum?!”
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Bibosstone | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 15:57 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 76 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| | | Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
|
Thank you very much for your help.
I would like to give the following information so that something like this can
hopefully be avoided in the future?
1) I revoked a purchase contract with the commercial seller. according to my
country's laws.
2) I have returned the goods to the seller (Parcel with shipment tracking)
3) My money was refunded by the seller via the original payment method (PayPal).
So far, everything is in order and complies with the laws of my country and the
seller's country.
After the seller received the goods back, he asked me to remove the "Completed"
status from the order (his message can be viewed in the order history).
I did this as requested.
Then he opened the "Non-Paying Buyer Alert"
Under "Refund" in the order overview, he stated "Buyer paid incorrect
amount", which is untrue.
And he also added "Additional Charges 1: EUR 21.79"
I don't know what the seller is trying to achieve with this, but it's
strange to me.
Kind regards
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 16:17 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 66 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | | | Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
|
Thank you very much for your help.
I would like to give the following information so that something like this can
hopefully be avoided in the future?
|
See my post:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1462117
Picking orders can take a few hours, or a full day for a seller.
Please avoid cancelling a Paid order.
Laws may protect you, but please understand other human beings, that's smarter.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Bibosstone | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 16:34 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 60 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | Laws may protect you, but please understand other human beings, that's smarter.
|
Thank God that factual laws regulate the everyday coexistence of people and not
the feelings and wishes of each individual. that would be a great imbalance.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 16:44 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 86 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | Laws may protect you, but please understand other human beings, that's smarter.
|
Thank God that factual laws regulate the everyday coexistence of people and not
the feelings and wishes of each individual. that would be a great imbalance.
|
Then perhaps renew your respect for the individuals you've elected
to transact with, over your "feeling and wishes" in the transactions
In other words, start to consider the member trying to sell here.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 17:00 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | Laws may protect you, but please understand other human beings, that's smarter.
|
Thank God that factual laws regulate the everyday coexistence of people and not
the feelings and wishes of each individual. that would be a great imbalance.
|
If you don't care about the other, then sorry but I have to simply stop-list
you in my shop.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 17:37 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 70 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | After the seller received the goods back, he asked me to remove the "Completed"
status from the order (his message can be viewed in the order history).
I did this as requested.
Then he opened the "Non-Paying Buyer Alert"
|
I'm guessing that the seller's reasoning was that he wished to cancel
the order (this helps with inventory and also means that he would not have to
pay fees on the sale) and avoid the possibility of negative feedback from the
buyer (a completed NPB means the buyer cannot leave feedback).
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | popsicle | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 16:08 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 68 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | Dear Sir or Madam,
I do not understand Bricklink.
In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
I don't understand the system here, are you penalized on Bricklink and banned
after the third revocation?
Is this platform not adapted to European law?
Can you please explain to me whether I am misunderstanding this or how it works
here on Bricklink works?
Bricklink Quote:
(Non-Paying Buyer alert has been initiated for order #xxxxon
If payment is not initiated, the seller (xxx) will have an option to cancel the
order which will result in the following consequence for the buyer (xxx):
* 1 cancelled order - Warning
* 2 cancelled orders - Warning
* 3 cancelled orders - Buyer privileges permanently revoked )
|
Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
Either party has the ability to leave feedback in these cases if they are unhappy
with the order.
|
As it should be on all three accounts, imho.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | Legopapa | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 22:18 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal/Selling fee | | Viewed: | 62 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| Hello,
| | | | In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
|
|
This also happened to me as the seller. The buyer sent back the order without
any reason and was refunded by me in his original payment method, so in the end
the order never took place
(cancelled from bookkeeping).
What happens with the selling fees for this order, especially $XXX or $XXXX orders?
How can I correct it in my orders received page?
Legopapa
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 22:50 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal/Selling fee | | Viewed: | 55 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Legopapa writes:
| | Hello,
| | | | In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
|
|
This also happened to me as the seller. The buyer sent back the order without
any reason and was refunded by me in his original payment method, so in the end
the order never took place
(cancelled from bookkeeping).
What happens with the selling fees for this order, especially $XXX or $XXXX orders?
|
If you Cancelled it (IBAN...) or Refunded it then cancelled it (PayPal, Stripe...)
then no problem, fees has been deducted for your next fees.
In short, no fees.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | qwertyboy | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 23:01 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal/Selling fee | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, Legopapa writes:
| | Hello,
| | | | In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
|
|
This also happened to me as the seller. The buyer sent back the order without
any reason and was refunded by me in his original payment method, so in the end
the order never took place
(cancelled from bookkeeping).
What happens with the selling fees for this order, especially $XXX or $XXXX orders?
|
If you Cancelled it (IBAN...) or Refunded it then cancelled it (PayPal, Stripe...)
then no problem, fees has been deducted for your next fees.
In short, no fees.
|
... but with Paypal you can kiss your PP fees goodbye.
Niek.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 23:05 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal/Selling fee | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, qwertyboy writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, Legopapa writes:
| | Hello,
| | | | In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
|
|
This also happened to me as the seller. The buyer sent back the order without
any reason and was refunded by me in his original payment method, so in the end
the order never took place
(cancelled from bookkeeping).
What happens with the selling fees for this order, especially $XXX or $XXXX orders?
|
If you Cancelled it (IBAN...) or Refunded it then cancelled it (PayPal, Stripe...)
then no problem, fees has been deducted for your next fees.
In short, no fees.
|
... but with Paypal you can kiss your PP fees goodbye.
|
He said "selling fees", PayPal is payment fees.
But yes.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Legopapa | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 23:02 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal/Selling fee | | Viewed: | 49 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, Legopapa writes:
| | Hello,
| | | | In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
|
|
This also happened to me as the seller. The buyer sent back the order without
any reason and was refunded by me in his original payment method, so in the end
the order never took place
(cancelled from bookkeeping).
What happens with the selling fees for this order, especially $XXX or $XXXX orders?
|
If you Cancelled it (IBAN...) or Refunded it then cancelled it (PayPal, Stripe...)
then no problem, fees has been deducted for your next fees.
In short, no fees.
|
I meant the Bricklink selling fee for this order, not the payment fees!
Do I have to pay a selling fee to Bricklink for an order witch took never place
in the end?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 30, 2024 23:07 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal/Selling fee | | Viewed: | 73 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Legopapa writes:
| | | | If you Cancelled it (IBAN...) or Refunded it then cancelled it (PayPal, Stripe...)
then no problem, fees has been deducted for your next fees.
In short, no fees.
|
I meant the Bricklink selling fee for this order, not the payment fees!
Do I have to pay a selling fee to Bricklink for an order witch took never place
in the end?
|
I SAID NO BRICKLINK FEES.
Really, since 2002 you didn't find any time to read the freaking Help pages???
Come on, make an effort!
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 03:40 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 51 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| |
Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
Glad this was the conclusion!
Enjoy the rest of the Easter weekend .
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 04:28 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 48 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, StarBrick writes:
| | In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| |
Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
Glad this was the conclusion!
Enjoy the rest of the Easter weekend .
|
There is a downside to this though. If an EU (or UK) buyer wants to cancel an
order and not receive an NPB, then it is better to pay, then invoke their right
of return once it is sent (or just once paid) and then post about it in the forum.
It is especially hard on the the seller if they don’t indicate who pays for return
costs.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | StarBrick | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 05:09 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 50 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, yorbrick writes:
| |
There is a downside to this though. If an EU (or UK) buyer wants to cancel an
order and not receive an NPB, then it is better to pay, then invoke their right
of return once it is sent (or just once paid) and then post about it in the forum.
It is especially hard on the the seller if they don’t indicate who pays for return
costs.
|
I think not. BL states this when a NPB may be filed (its NOT obligatory!):
"If there is no payment or communication from the buyer within seven days
of submitting an order, the seller may file a Non-Paying Buyer (NPB) alert."
Seller misused the NPB here as payment was made.
So BL did the only right thing here: remove the NPB as it was incorrectly used
by the seller.
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 05:24 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 61 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, StarBrick writes:
| | In Help, yorbrick writes:
| |
There is a downside to this though. If an EU (or UK) buyer wants to cancel an
order and not receive an NPB, then it is better to pay, then invoke their right
of return once it is sent (or just once paid) and then post about it in the forum.
It is especially hard on the the seller if they don’t indicate who pays for return
costs.
|
I think not. BL states this when a NPB may be filed (its NOT obligatory!):
"If there is no payment or communication from the buyer within seven days
of submitting an order, the seller may file a Non-Paying Buyer (NPB) alert."
Seller misused the NPB here as payment was made.
So BL did the only right thing here: remove the NPB as it was incorrectly used
by the seller.
|
Yes, and if a seller says they will NPB a buyer for not paying, the buyer just
needs to pay then cancel to avoid the NPB.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 19:03 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 53 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
| | In Help, Bibosstone writes:
| | Dear Sir or Madam,
I do not understand Bricklink.
In Germany, but also in Europe, we have the so-called "right of withdrawal".
This also applies to all commercial dealers in Germany who sell on Bricklink.
I revoked a purchase contract, sent the goods back and was immediately refunded
the money by the retailer via the original payment method (Paypal).
The retailer has now opened a "Non-Paying Buyer Alert".
I don't understand the system here, are you penalized on Bricklink and banned
after the third revocation?
Is this platform not adapted to European law?
Can you please explain to me whether I am misunderstanding this or how it works
here on Bricklink works?
Bricklink Quote:
(Non-Paying Buyer alert has been initiated for order #xxxxon
If payment is not initiated, the seller (xxx) will have an option to cancel the
order which will result in the following consequence for the buyer (xxx):
* 1 cancelled order - Warning
* 2 cancelled orders - Warning
* 3 cancelled orders - Buyer privileges permanently revoked )
|
Since you originally paid for the order, the NPB has been removed.
This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package filled with wrapped paper(tracking
shows
a package is received but not showing the content of package), would any NSS
get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package including only 6 lots but missing
4 lots, would any NSS get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots of new items and received a package including the
parts all in used condition, would any NSS get removed by BL?
| |
Either party has the ability to leave feedback in these cases if they are unhappy
with the order.
|
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Mar 31, 2024 19:41 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 52 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, SezaR writes:
| | In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
|
| | | | This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package filled with wrapped paper(tracking
shows
a package is received but not showing the content of package), would any NSS
get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package including only 6 lots but missing
4 lots, would any NSS get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots of new items and received a package including the
parts all in used condition, would any NSS get removed by BL?
|
Of course NO to all of this.
If a buyer receives a pile of beach sand, lesser items or not of the announced
quality ( eg: "New" ), then the NSS will NOT be removed.
Then either the buyer or the seller has, I guess, to bring proofs - like pictures.
In case nobody shows any proof of anything, I guess BrickLink transactions quantity
and Feedback history profiles may weight in the decision...
Or, as PayPal, BrickLink may favor the buyer if no proof can be provided.
I don't know.
All I know is that it must cost a lot in terms of human time and decision to
BrickLink.
Imagine half a million members, and 1/1000 having "some transaction problem"
every day?
Plus of course a ton of other problems not linked to a specific transaction...
Then you realize Help Desk can quickly be overloaded.
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SezaR | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2024 15:17 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 40 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, SezaR writes:
| | In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
|
| | | | This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package filled with wrapped paper(tracking
shows
a package is received but not showing the content of package), would any NSS
get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package including only 6 lots but missing
4 lots, would any NSS get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots of new items and received a package including the
parts all in used condition, would any NSS get removed by BL?
|
Of course NO to all of this.
If a buyer receives a pile of beach sand, lesser items or not of the announced
quality ( eg: "New" ), then the NSS will NOT be removed.
Then either the buyer or the seller has, I guess, to bring proofs - like pictures.
In case nobody shows any proof of anything, I guess BrickLink transactions quantity
and Feedback history profiles may weight in the decision...
Or, as PayPal, BrickLink may favor the buyer if no proof can be provided.
I don't know.
All I know is that it must cost a lot in terms of human time and decision to
BrickLink.
Imagine half a million members, and 1/1000 having "some transaction problem"
every day?
Plus of course a ton of other problems not linked to a specific transaction...
Then you realize Help Desk can quickly be overloaded.
|
Thanks but this is for Admin_russel to clarify what he meant "if a buyer
receives the order, any NSS on that order is removed."
Of course, if the order is complete and correct any NSS should be removed. This
is obvious so I guess what can be implied but what he wrote is that even if the
package is not complete, any NSS would be removed. So what if it is not complete
like those three situations I mentioned?
|
|
|
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Apr 1, 2024 16:04 | | Subject: | Re: EU Right of Withdrawal | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Help | |
|
| In Help, SezaR writes:
| | In Help, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Help, SezaR writes:
| | In Help, Admin_Russell writes:
|
| | | | This is the same case with a seller - if a buyer receives the order, any NSS
on that order is removed.
|
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package filled with wrapped paper(tracking
shows
a package is received but not showing the content of package), would any NSS
get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots and received a package including only 6 lots but missing
4 lots, would any NSS get removed by BL?
If a buyer ordered 10 lots of new items and received a package including the
parts all in used condition, would any NSS get removed by BL?
|
Of course NO to all of this.
If a buyer receives a pile of beach sand, lesser items or not of the announced
quality ( eg: "New" ), then the NSS will NOT be removed.
Then either the buyer or the seller has, I guess, to bring proofs - like pictures.
In case nobody shows any proof of anything, I guess BrickLink transactions quantity
and Feedback history profiles may weight in the decision...
Or, as PayPal, BrickLink may favor the buyer if no proof can be provided.
I don't know.
All I know is that it must cost a lot in terms of human time and decision to
BrickLink.
Imagine half a million members, and 1/1000 having "some transaction problem"
every day?
Plus of course a ton of other problems not linked to a specific transaction...
Then you realize Help Desk can quickly be overloaded.
|
Thanks but this is for Admin_russel to clarify what he meant "if a buyer
receives the order, any NSS on that order is removed."
|
I guess you're misinterpreting?
If buyer receives a pound of sand instead of a LEGO Star Wars, received or not,
the NSS will stand.
Or I don't comprehend anything.
But sincerely I don't think so.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Germany, Mecklenburg-Vorpommern
Netherlands, Noord-Holland
United Kingdom, England
France, Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur
Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Canada, Alberta