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| | | Author: | WynnSmith  | | Posted: | Dec 18, 2022 22:58 | | Subject: | Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 106 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | | Status: | Open | | Vote: | [Yes|No] | |
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| As a builder, wanting to find available parts, or as someone wanting to research
a part in my hand, it would be useful if each piece, in the database, was associated
with the connections on that piece. The obvious connections include studs and
stud-receivers, technic pins and technic pin holes, small pin holes and small
pins, bars and bar receivers which include clips, hands, and open studs, and
several others. Additionally, this implies the ability to filter a search by
selecting the possible connection types.
I imagine this filter as providing a checkbox for each connection type and
an optional number field. For example, design ID 20482, "Tile, Round 1 x 1 with
Bar and Pin Holder", includes one stud-receiver, one bar, and one small pin hole.
One problem is that there's no standard for describing "small pin holder".
If you search on "pin holder", your search is overwhelmed by technic pieces
while not revealing many pieces which include a "small pin hole". Many parts
with such a connection, call it a "pin hole" or "pin holder" rather than a "small
pin" something. Other descriptions use the word "hat". Most such parts don't
provide any information at all on this feature. Nor do the parts which include
the "small pin".
Another problem is that many parts don't follow what most of us consider
the standard for dimensions. Is it a 4x1 or a 1x4? This becomes a bigger problem
if the part isn't exactly one brick tall. However, I can count studs and
enter that number into a filter.
The first goal is to standardize the vocabulary. For example, do you say "stud-receiver",
"anti-stud", or "antistud"? The word "pin" should be stricken from the database
and replaced with either "techpin", "smallpin", or "handpin". (are there other
pins?)
Finally, imagine having this feature in Studio. wow.
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| | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 08:46 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, WynnSmith writes:
I guess that’s a job for the “soon-to-come” Tag system….
| | The first goal is to standardize the vocabulary. For example, do you say "stud-receiver",
"anti-stud", or "antistud"? The word "pin" should be stricken from the database
and replaced with either "techpin", "smallpin", or "handpin". (are there other
pins?)
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Er, what’s a “handpin”?
| | Finally, imagine having this feature in Studio. wow.
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Studio already has that but in reverse: select a part, there’s a “Find compatible
bricks” in the status line. It will show the parts that can connect to the one
selected.
Now, it only works for doors, windows & frames; wheels & tyres; visors & headgear…
but it doesn’t work for studs; bars/clips; pins because there’s way too many
parts with those!
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| | | | | | | Author: | peregrinator | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 09:00 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
I guess that's a pin that can fit into an arm?
Anyway I don't like the terms at all, I think most bricklinkers know what
a pin is.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 09:36 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, peregrinator writes:
| | In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
I guess that's a pin that can fit into an arm?
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Er (bis), how many parts can fit into an arm?
| | Anyway I don't like the terms at all, I think most bricklinkers know what
a pin is.
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Well, there’s these problems:
0. There’s Technic pins, wheel pins (called ‘wheel holders’ now but some have
“split pins” and the compatible wheels still say ‘pin’), small pin (on plumes
and Friends accessories).
But that’s not really a problem because only Technic pins are called “pins”,
the others are always qualified now (i.e. “wheel holders pin” or “small
pin”).
1. There’s a few other uses for pin:
— for the bottom pin, for instance (though this one is a “qualified”
pin)
— for bars, for instance
2. 2780 is said to be a pin, 4274 is said to be a half-pin… but 43093 is a 1L
axle with a pin (not half but same size as 4274) and 44865 has a pin (not half…).
But we can’t change 2780 to be a “double pin” and 4274 to be a full pin now.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | WynnSmith | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 13:34 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 22 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | Well, there’s these problems:
...
But that’s not really a problem because only Technic pins are called “pins”,
the others are always qualified now (i.e. “wheel holders pin” or “small
pin”).
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Thanks for that list... so many good examples. Even those of us with some experience
weren't familiar with the depth of this problem. So, I don't believe
the problem is solved because even if attempting to search for the most familiar
cases, the search results fail to reveal desired parts.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 10:08 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, peregrinator writes:
| | I think most bricklinkers know what a pin is.
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I don't know what a pin is, but I know your PIN!
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 10:36 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, wildchicken13 writes:
| | In Suggestions, peregrinator writes:
| | I think most bricklinkers know what a pin is.
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I don't know what a pin is, but I know your PIN!
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1234, like on your luggage?
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | wildchicken13 | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 10:41 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 44 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, SylvainLS writes:
| | 1234, like on your luggage?
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So you're the one who stole my luggage!
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | WynnSmith | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 13:28 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, peregrinator writes:
| | most bricklinkers know what a pin is.
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A technic pin is different from a minifigure cap feather pin. As a result, the
word pin has become arbitrary. The problem to solve is to eliminate arbitrary
search terms.
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| | | | | Author: | jennnifer | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 09:38 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, WynnSmith writes:
| | As a builder, wanting to find available parts, or as someone wanting to research
a part in my hand, it would be useful if each piece, in the database, was associated
with the connections on that piece. The obvious connections include studs and
stud-receivers, technic pins and technic pin holes, small pin holes and small
pins, bars and bar receivers which include clips, hands, and open studs, and
several others. Additionally, this implies the ability to filter a search by
selecting the possible connection types.
I imagine this filter as providing a checkbox for each connection type and
an optional number field. For example, design ID 20482, "Tile, Round 1 x 1 with
Bar and Pin Holder", includes one stud-receiver, one bar, and one small pin hole.
One problem is that there's no standard for describing "small pin holder".
If you search on "pin holder", your search is overwhelmed by technic pieces
while not revealing many pieces which include a "small pin hole". Many parts
with such a connection, call it a "pin hole" or "pin holder" rather than a "small
pin" something. Other descriptions use the word "hat". Most such parts don't
provide any information at all on this feature. Nor do the parts which include
the "small pin".
Another problem is that many parts don't follow what most of us consider
the standard for dimensions. Is it a 4x1 or a 1x4? This becomes a bigger problem
if the part isn't exactly one brick tall. However, I can count studs and
enter that number into a filter.
The first goal is to standardize the vocabulary. For example, do you say "stud-receiver",
"anti-stud", or "antistud"? The word "pin" should be stricken from the database
and replaced with either "techpin", "smallpin", or "handpin". (are there other
pins?)
Finally, imagine having this feature in Studio. wow.
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Someone please correct me if I am wrong or missing something. 
There's a pin: technic pin
There's a bar: with clip connections and hole connections
There's an accessory pin
This explains the dimensions:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=261
Also, I know some people will always be eager for 'standardized' everything.
I get it. It's a bit trickier than you would think. Some stuff is only obvious
with the benefit of hindsight. Continuously changing stuff to match that hindsight
can be disruptive. Our Item Names are already doing a ton of work so I am leary
of adding any more.
That being said... I think a connection database would be a great addition to
our catalog! That would require some snazzy new coding, built on a nice solid
infrastructure, and by someone who really understands our product and our catalog.
Oh...
Thanks,
Jen
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| | | | | | | Author: | hpoort | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 12:19 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 36 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, jennnifer writes:
| | In Suggestions, WynnSmith writes:
| | As a builder, wanting to find available parts, or as someone wanting to research
a part in my hand, it would be useful if each piece, in the database, was associated
with the connections on that piece. The obvious connections include studs and
stud-receivers, technic pins and technic pin holes, small pin holes and small
pins, bars and bar receivers which include clips, hands, and open studs, and
several others. Additionally, this implies the ability to filter a search by
selecting the possible connection types.
I imagine this filter as providing a checkbox for each connection type and
an optional number field. For example, design ID 20482, "Tile, Round 1 x 1 with
Bar and Pin Holder", includes one stud-receiver, one bar, and one small pin hole.
One problem is that there's no standard for describing "small pin holder".
If you search on "pin holder", your search is overwhelmed by technic pieces
while not revealing many pieces which include a "small pin hole". Many parts
with such a connection, call it a "pin hole" or "pin holder" rather than a "small
pin" something. Other descriptions use the word "hat". Most such parts don't
provide any information at all on this feature. Nor do the parts which include
the "small pin".
Another problem is that many parts don't follow what most of us consider
the standard for dimensions. Is it a 4x1 or a 1x4? This becomes a bigger problem
if the part isn't exactly one brick tall. However, I can count studs and
enter that number into a filter.
The first goal is to standardize the vocabulary. For example, do you say "stud-receiver",
"anti-stud", or "antistud"? The word "pin" should be stricken from the database
and replaced with either "techpin", "smallpin", or "handpin". (are there other
pins?)
Finally, imagine having this feature in Studio. wow.
|
Someone please correct me if I am wrong or missing something.
There's a pin: technic pin
There's a bar: with clip connections and hole connections
There's an accessory pin
This explains the dimensions:
https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=261
Also, I know some people will always be eager for 'standardized' everything.
I get it. It's a bit trickier than you would think. Some stuff is only obvious
with the benefit of hindsight. Continuously changing stuff to match that hindsight
can be disruptive. Our Item Names are already doing a ton of work so I am leary
of adding any more.
That being said... I think a connection database would be a great addition to
our catalog! That would require some snazzy new coding, built on a nice solid
infrastructure, and by someone who really understands our product and our catalog.
Oh...
Thanks,
Jen
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The connectivity information is already in a kind of database: in the Studio
part files under the PE_CONN tag, including the position and orientation of the
connection.
What would be newly needed is an interface and search mechanism to filter on
these, both on types of connection and on relative orientation.
It might not be very long until we can feed the parts database into an AI and
query it to build our LEGO projects for us.
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| | | | | | | Author: | WynnSmith | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 13:47 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 21 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, jennnifer writes:
| | That being said... I think a connection database would be a great addition to
our catalog! That would require some snazzy new coding, built on a nice solid
infrastructure, and by someone who really understands our product and our catalog.
|
Thanks Jen. Ya, that's the point. We need to augment the data and not change
titles and descriptions that people currently use. Also, please read SylanLS's
message listing far more examples of the pin than I was aware of.
There are dozens of other examples that I am aware of but didn't include
in my original message. For example, "stud in center". There are parts
we call "jumpers" (but you can't search "jumpers" . However,
a 1x2 jumper stud doesn't align with a 2x2 jumper stud. Also Jumpers are
different from, for example, a dome with "stud in center".
Nevertheless, there's a limited number of stud positions and all of them
can become identifiable in the augmented data.
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| | | | | Author: | FantasyBricks | | Posted: | Dec 19, 2022 19:52 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| Thanks for suggesting this idea! Though it seems like an immense undertaking,
I imagine it could be useful.
I wonder how we would handle connections such as connecting studs onto the side
of a fence with a lattice (which also makes me wonder why "lattice" is not included
in the description of this fence). The fence I am referring to is the following:
It could also be true for:
Also a technic pin could fit in the lattice of the above fences, though rather
loosely.
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| | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 09:47 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, FantasyBricks writes:
| | I wonder how we would handle connections such as connecting studs onto the side
of a fence with a lattice (which also makes me wonder why "lattice" is not included
in the description of this fence). The fence I am referring to is the following:
It could also be true for:
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Excellent suggestion. The names have been updated.
Cheers,
Randy
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 11:53 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, randy_f writes:
| | In Suggestions, FantasyBricks writes:
| | I wonder how we would handle connections such as connecting studs onto the side
of a fence with a lattice (which also makes me wonder why "lattice" is not included
in the description of this fence). The fence I am referring to is the following:
It could also be true for:
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Excellent suggestion. The names have been updated.
Cheers,
Randy
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Not gunna lie for a second their I though you added the word lettuce tot he title
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | randyf | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 12:25 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 31 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Nubs_Select writes:
| | In Suggestions, randy_f writes:
| | In Suggestions, FantasyBricks writes:
| | I wonder how we would handle connections such as connecting studs onto the side
of a fence with a lattice (which also makes me wonder why "lattice" is not included
in the description of this fence). The fence I am referring to is the following:
It could also be true for:
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Excellent suggestion. The names have been updated.
Cheers,
Randy
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Not gunna lie for a second their I though you added the word lettuce tot he title
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I am surprised that you even know what lettuce is since it normally doesn't
come on a pizza. 
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | Nubs_Select | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 12:29 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, randy_f writes:
| | In Suggestions, Nubs_Select writes:
| | In Suggestions, randy_f writes:
| | In Suggestions, FantasyBricks writes:
| | I wonder how we would handle connections such as connecting studs onto the side
of a fence with a lattice (which also makes me wonder why "lattice" is not included
in the description of this fence). The fence I am referring to is the following:
It could also be true for:
|
Excellent suggestion. The names have been updated.
Cheers,
Randy
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Not gunna lie for a second their I though you added the word lettuce tot he title
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I am surprised that you even know what lettuce is since it normally doesn't
come on a pizza.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | FantasyBricks | | Posted: | Dec 22, 2022 23:18 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| | Thank you so much, Randy! |
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| | | | | Author: | Andy_Bell | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 15:02 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 28 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, WynnSmith writes:
For example, do you say "stud-receiver", "anti-stud", or
"antistud"?
The original patent calls them "projections", "protuberances"
and "cavities"
Why use "anti"? Just use stud and
socket - "An opening into which a plug or other connecting part is
designed to fit"
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Dec 20, 2022 15:06 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Andy_Bell writes:
| | In Suggestions, WynnSmith writes:
For example, do you say "stud-receiver", "anti-stud", or
"antistud"?
The original patent calls them "projections", "protuberances"
and "cavities"
Why use "anti"? Just use stud and
socket - "An opening into which a plug or other connecting part is
designed to fit"
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3 meanings already: ball, tow ball, rotation joint.
* | | 67696 Technic, Brick Modified 2 x 2 with Ball Socket and Axle Hole - Straight Forks with Round Ends and Closed Sides
Parts: Technic, Brick |
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| | | | | | | Author: | WynnSmith | | Posted: | Dec 21, 2022 17:35 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 26 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Andy_Bell writes:
| | Why use "anti"? Just use stud and
socket
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Yes, I said "stud". However, the word "socket" is ambiguous.
That's why many people call it, for example this week on Lego Masters Celebrity
Edition, one of the contestants called it an "anti-stud". Others call
the same feature a stud-receiver. Both of these labels are non-ambiguous.
There's that, but also the alignment of the stud is another important feature.
For example, a plate, 1x2 with stud in center has a different alignment from
a plate, 2x2 with stud in center, while both of those are different from a standard
alignment. These features and many others can all be associated with each part
and made available.
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| | | | | | | Author: | yorbrick | | Posted: | Dec 21, 2022 18:00 | | Subject: | Re: Want 'Connection Types' Associated with Parts | | Viewed: | 29 times | | Topic: | Suggestions | |
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| In Suggestions, Andy_Bell writes:
| | In Suggestions, WynnSmith writes:
For example, do you say "stud-receiver", "anti-stud", or
"antistud"?
The original patent calls them "projections", "protuberances"
and "cavities"
Why use "anti"? Just use stud and
socket - "An opening into which a plug or other connecting part is
designed to fit"
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Because anti means opposite, so is perfect in this sense.
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