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| | | Author: | GyusziP20  | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 13:28 | | Subject: | OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 104 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| Hallo,
I have a small business, I can sell without VAT.
I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
I hope it's not option 2. Then I lose the sales price VAT!!! And then how
do I reprice the items? EU VAT is between 17-25%.
Regards EV3
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| | | | | Author: | Give.Me.A.Brick | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 15:05 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 57 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | Hallo,
I have a small business, I can sell without VAT.
I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
I hope it's not option 2. Then I lose the sales price VAT!!! And then how
do I reprice the items? EU VAT is between 17-25%.
Regards EV3
|
As far as I can tell, your prices are 23% (Portuguese) VAT inclusive.
For instance The Arrowhead is 120 EUR 23% VAT inclusive.
My guess is that someone from outside UE will see the price of 94.49 EUR
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| | | | | | | Author: | Emporiosa | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 15:59 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| Hmm something may be off then because I see 120 Euro and I'm in Canada. And
it's like that at checkout too. Technically I should see a lower amount than
someone in the EU. Screenshot attached.
In Technical Issues, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | Hallo,
I have a small business, I can sell without VAT.
I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
I hope it's not option 2. Then I lose the sales price VAT!!! And then how
do I reprice the items? EU VAT is between 17-25%.
Regards EV3
|
As far as I can tell, your prices are 23% (Portuguese) VAT inclusive.
For instance The Arrowhead is 120 EUR 23% VAT inclusive.
My guess is that someone from outside UE will see the price of 94.49 EUR
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | GyusziP20 | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 16:06 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Emporiosa writes:
| | Hmm something may be off then because I see 120 Euro and I'm in Canada. And
it's like that at checkout too. Technically I should see a lower amount than
someone in the EU. Screenshot attached.
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Thank you your answer and picture.
120EUR would be my net price.
This price should be increased with the VAT of the EU country.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 17:04 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, Emporiosa writes:
| | Hmm something may be off then because I see 120 Euro and I'm in Canada. And
it's like that at checkout too. Technically I should see a lower amount than
someone in the EU. Screenshot attached.
|
Thank you your answer and picture.
120EUR would be my net price.
This price should be increased with the VAT of the EU country.
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No. The Arrowhead is at €120 for me too.
If you don’t have VAT enabled on your seller account, VAT is not removed for
non-EU.
What the OSS system does is that it shows the VAT percentage to EU buyers.
BL VAT works that way (and it’s a loss for sellers):
1. You enter your prices as FINAL (VAT-included or VAT-does-not-apply).
2. If you’re VAT enabled, the VAT is removed for non-EU buyers.
3. If you need to collect VAT, locally or OSS, then the EU buyers are shown the
same prices as HU buyers, with an indication of the percentage that applies for
them (so, HU for HU or non-OSS, and FR, DE, NL…, if you’ve OSS).
For your case, as you don’t collect VAT in HU but do collect for EU, you price
is:
— €120 in your inventory,
— €120 for HU buyers,
— €120 for non-EU buyers,
— €120 for EU-non-HU buyers.
Yes, €120 for everyone.
And if you collected VAT in HU, it would be:
— €120 in your inventory,
— €120 for HU & EU buyers,
— €94.48 for non-EU buyers (because then you would export at 0% VAT).
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| | | | | | | Author: | GyusziP20 | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 16:08 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, Give.Me.A.Brick writes:
| | In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | Hallo,
I have a small business, I can sell without VAT.
I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
I hope it's not option 2. Then I lose the sales price VAT!!! And then how
do I reprice the items? EU VAT is between 17-25%.
Regards EV3
|
As far as I can tell, your prices are 23% (Portuguese) VAT inclusive.
For instance The Arrowhead is 120 EUR 23% VAT inclusive.
My guess is that someone from outside UE will see the price of 94.49 EUR
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Then this is not good, because 120 EUR is my original net price. This should
be increased with VAT in EU countries.
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| | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 15:26 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 47 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| | | I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
|
You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
The buyer will see the same price but with a different VAT rate and amount.
Example :
* 12.70€ with 27% VAT for a HU buyer
* 12.70€ with 20% VAT for a FR buyer
In short, the price doesn't change, but the net price changes.
It's counter intuitive and a pain for accounting.
Due to this your prices appear N% more expensive to other countries with lower
VAT rate.
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| | | | | | | Author: | GyusziP20 | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 16:01 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 34 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
|
You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
The buyer will see the same price but with a different VAT rate and amount.
Example :
* 12.70€ with 27% VAT for a HU buyer
* 12.70€ with 20% VAT for a FR buyer
In short, the price doesn't change, but the net price changes.
It's counter intuitive and a pain for accounting.
Due to this your prices appear N% more expensive to other countries with lower
VAT rate.
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Ohh, this is not good! I am a non-VAT seller, so the VAT is 0%. My prices are
net prices.
Settings - Management - VAT - Domestic=Disable VAT
Then now in all EU countries my price is reduced with VAT!!! It's nonsense!
What can I do?
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 16:54 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 39 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
|
You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
The buyer will see the same price but with a different VAT rate and amount.
Example :
* 12.70€ with 27% VAT for a HU buyer
* 12.70€ with 20% VAT for a FR buyer
In short, the price doesn't change, but the net price changes.
It's counter intuitive and a pain for accounting.
Due to this your prices appear N% more expensive to other countries with lower
VAT rate.
|
Ohh, this is not good! I am a non-VAT seller, so the VAT is 0%. My prices are
net prices.
Settings - Management - VAT - Domestic=Disable VAT
Then now in all EU countries my price is reduced with VAT!!! It's nonsense!
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Help Desk, open a ticket?
Try to contact Russell the admin?
I wonder how you could be on OSS while not having VAT?
You wrote "Domestic=Disable VAT", but then for non domestic you have a VAT???
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 17:11 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 41 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
I wonder how you could be on OSS while not having VAT?
You wrote "Domestic=Disable VAT", but then for non domestic you have a VAT???
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That’s the magic of OSS: you need only €10,000 EU sales to have to collect EU
VAT but your local threshold may be way higher.
Even easier for Magyars as they export a lot.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | rankster | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 04:58 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
|
You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
The buyer will see the same price but with a different VAT rate and amount.
Example :
* 12.70€ with 27% VAT for a HU buyer
* 12.70€ with 20% VAT for a FR buyer
In short, the price doesn't change, but the net price changes.
It's counter intuitive and a pain for accounting.
Due to this your prices appear N% more expensive to other countries with lower
VAT rate.
|
Ohh, this is not good! I am a non-VAT seller, so the VAT is 0%. My prices are
net prices.
Settings - Management - VAT - Domestic=Disable VAT
Then now in all EU countries my price is reduced with VAT!!! It's nonsense!
|
Help Desk, open a ticket?
Try to contact Russell the admin?
I wonder how you could be on OSS while not having VAT?
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It’s possible. I’m locally VAT exempt while I
need to charge VAT on EU orders due to OSS threshold.
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You wrote "Domestic=Disable VAT", but then for non domestic you have a VAT???
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | GyusziP20 | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 05:14 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 20 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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It’s possible. I’m locally VAT exempt while I
need to charge VAT on EU orders due to OSS threshold.
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me too but I couldn't describe it that well 
Does BL display your prices well for EU customers?
net price + EU VAT or the net price including VAT, and thus you lose the VAT.
I'm looking at "Armstrong's Footprint" in your store: 200 EUR + 16.25
EUR shipping cost,
does not include the Hungarian 27% VAT.
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| | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 17:02 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 37 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
|
You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
The buyer will see the same price but with a different VAT rate and amount.
Example :
* 12.70€ with 27% VAT for a HU buyer
* 12.70€ with 20% VAT for a FR buyer
In short, the price doesn't change, but the net price changes.
It's counter intuitive and a pain for accounting.
Due to this your prices appear N% more expensive to other countries with lower
VAT rate.
|
Er, no.
On BL you put your prices VAT included, and it’s removed for non-EU buyers if
you’re using BL’s VAT mechanism.
But OP said he’s not VAT-registered and isn’t using BL’s VAT. So their prices
are the same for everyone.
But, as they have OSS enabled, the VAT percentage is shown and is supposed to
be collected.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 20:10 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
|
You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
The buyer will see the same price but with a different VAT rate and amount.
Example :
* 12.70€ with 27% VAT for a HU buyer
* 12.70€ with 20% VAT for a FR buyer
In short, the price doesn't change, but the net price changes.
It's counter intuitive and a pain for accounting.
Due to this your prices appear N% more expensive to other countries with lower
VAT rate.
|
Er, no.
On BL you put your prices VAT included, and it’s removed for non-EU buyers if
you’re using BL’s VAT mechanism.
But OP said he’s not VAT-registered and isn’t using BL’s VAT. So their prices
are the same for everyone.
But, as they have OSS enabled, the VAT percentage is shown and is supposed to
be collected.
|
You can be non-VAT AND OSS enabled???
OSS registration needs a VAT-ID, doesn't it?
Sorry - I don't understand this seller case then.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | GyusziP20 | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 04:40 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 30 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| | |
You can be non-VAT AND OSS enabled???
OSS registration needs a VAT-ID, doesn't it?
Sorry - I don't understand this seller case then.
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Here in Hungary you can have a company and be a non-VAT seller, but you can only
trade in a value of ~30,000eur in one year.
I have an EU tax number and OSS registration.
So far I have invoiced everyone with 0% VAT.
now: - in Hungary, it is still 0% VAT,
- EU countries B2C: the VAT of the EU country
- EU countries B2B: it is still 0% VAT
- non-EU countries: it is still 0% VAT
My price for the product is 120 EUR, that's how much I want to receive.
Now that BL VAT is not activated, but OSS is activated: You see that 120 EUR
already includes French VAT, which is a loss for me.
I turned off OSS in the evening, and I opened a help ticket with the BL team.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | rankster | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 05:02 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | | |
You can be non-VAT AND OSS enabled???
OSS registration needs a VAT-ID, doesn't it?
Sorry - I don't understand this seller case then.
|
Here in Hungary you can have a company and be a non-VAT seller, but you can only
trade in a value of ~30,000eur in one year.
I have an EU tax number and OSS registration.
So far I have invoiced everyone with 0% VAT.
now: - in Hungary, it is still 0% VAT,
- EU countries B2C: the VAT of the EU country
- EU countries B2B: it is still 0% VAT
- non-EU countries: it is still 0% VAT
My price for the product is 120 EUR, that's how much I want to receive.
Now that BL VAT is not activated, but OSS is activated: You see that 120 EUR
already includes French VAT, which is a loss for me.
I turned off OSS in the evening, and I opened a help ticket with the BL team.
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This is how it is, they can’t help you with that.
If you don’t want to loose money on selling to EU buyers you need to increase
your prices by 20-25% which is of course not ideal for anyone but there is no
other option.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | GyusziP20 | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 05:20 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 23 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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This is how it is, they can’t help you with that.
If you don’t want to loose money on selling to EU buyers you need to increase
your prices by 20-25% which is of course not ideal for anyone but there is no
other option.
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But then I will increase the price for everyone. Also for non-EU customers. But
that's not good. The system should handle this.
This system is not prepared for local non VAT sellers.
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 18:44 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 33 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | | |
You can be non-VAT AND OSS enabled???
OSS registration needs a VAT-ID, doesn't it?
Sorry - I don't understand this seller case then.
|
Here in Hungary you can have a company and be a non-VAT seller, but you can only
trade in a value of ~30,000eur in one year.
I have an EU tax number and OSS registration.
|
OK, thanks to Sylvain, Sylvain understood.
| | My price for the product is 120 EUR, that's how much I want to receive.
Now that BL VAT is not activated, but OSS is activated: You see that 120 EUR
already includes French VAT, which is a loss for me.
|
What I don't get is why you used OSS.
Did you receive an email saying you're OVER 10,000€ for 2021?
WARNING, it may not be the case (you may be under the threshold); read this:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1350197
I'd be you I'd calculate and see if they're right, otherwise open
a ticket.
Because then, you don't need OSS...
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | GyusziP20 | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2022 12:36 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 25 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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What I don't get is why you used OSS.
Did you receive an email saying you're OVER 10,000€ for 2021?
WARNING, it may not be the case (you may be under the threshold); read this:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1350197
I'd be you I'd calculate and see if they're right, otherwise open
a ticket.
Because then, you don't need OSS...
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Yes, I got letter, I'm over 10.000EUR. Thank you your link, I read it. I
was thinking this B2B/ B2C problem. I opened a ticket on 05.07.2022, but I didn't
get answer.
I can give 0% VAT invoice, so I can't check how many B2B or B2C coustumer.
Have you ever somebody, who preased, and got statement (B2B and B2C orders) for
Bricklink team?
Thank you!
Regards: Gyuszi
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2022 12:58 | | Subject: | (Cancelled) | | Viewed: | 15 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| | (Cancelled) |
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 7, 2022 12:58 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 38 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, GyusziP20 writes:
| | | |
What I don't get is why you used OSS.
Did you receive an email saying you're OVER 10,000€ for 2021?
WARNING, it may not be the case (you may be under the threshold); read this:
https://www.bricklink.com/message.asp?ID=1350197
I'd be you I'd calculate and see if they're right, otherwise open
a ticket.
Because then, you don't need OSS...
|
Yes, I got letter, I'm over 10.000EUR. Thank you your link, I read it. I
was thinking this B2B/ B2C problem. I opened a ticket on 05.07.2022, but I didn't
get answer.
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You must do your accounting, and get the exact number for B2C EU sales.
This should EXclude B2B sales without VAT.
Like the order I think I placed in your shop, if I remember well.
If you're BELOW the 10,000€ threshold for B2C, then there's no reason
to be on OSS.
IMHO.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 06:12 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 27 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
You can be non-VAT AND OSS enabled???
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Apparently, yes.
| | OSS registration needs a VAT-ID, doesn't it?
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Yes. But anyone can ask for a VAT-ID. Having a VAT-ID is not the same as having
to collect VAT.
https://entreprendre.service-public.fr/vosdroits/F23570
“L'entreprise non redevable de la TVA peut, si elle le souhaite, demander
l'attribution d'un numéro de TVA intracommunautaire.”
“Une entreprise dépendant du régime de la franchise de TVA ne perdra pas les
avantages de ce régime s'il demande un numéro de TVA intracommunautaire.”
| | Sorry - I don't understand this seller case then.
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| | | | | | | | | Author: | 1001bricks | | Posted: | Aug 5, 2022 20:20 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 42 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, SylvainLS writes:
| | In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | | | I enabled OSS in the system. What price does a B2C customer within the EU see?
for example:
Buyer from Austria, the price of the item is 10 EUR, 10 + 20% VAT = 12 EUR? or
my 10EUR included VAT?
|
You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
The buyer will see the same price but with a different VAT rate and amount.
Example :
* 12.70€ with 27% VAT for a HU buyer
* 12.70€ with 20% VAT for a FR buyer
In short, the price doesn't change, but the net price changes.
It's counter intuitive and a pain for accounting.
Due to this your prices appear N% more expensive to other countries with lower
VAT rate.
|
Er, no.
On BL you put your prices VAT included, and it’s removed for non-EU buyers if
you’re using BL’s VAT mechanism.
|
I know.
| | But OP said he’s not VAT-registered and isn’t using BL’s VAT. So their prices
are the same for everyone.
|
Which is what I said above - the price is the same.
Only the VAT rate changes (for EU).
| | But, as they have OSS enabled, the VAT percentage is shown and is supposed to
be collected.
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Which is what I said above.
Now I don't get your reply.
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| | | | | | | | | | | Author: | SylvainLS | | Posted: | Aug 6, 2022 06:29 | | Subject: | Re: OSS - my price +/- VAT | | Viewed: | 35 times | | Topic: | Technical Issues | |
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| In Technical Issues, 1001bricks writes:
| | […]
[…]
Now I don't get your reply.
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It’s because my last neurons have been steamed the last few days 
I read
| | | | | | You uploaded a lot at 10€ and included your HU VAT 27%, so your price is 12.70€
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as: you set the price at €10, you have VAT at 27%, then the price is €12.70.
What I meant to emphasize is that sellers put the final price (12.70€)… and,
sometimes, the VAT is removed from that (which leads to €10).
For OP’s situation, as their store is VAT-doesn’t-apply in Hungary, their price
is €12.7-VAT-doesn’t-apply in Hungary.
They shouldn’t think the price is €10 + 27% VAT because VAT doesn’t apply for
them in HU!
And they don’t export to non-EU at 0% VAT either because there’s no VAT in their
prices. So the price is €12.7 for non-EU buyers too.
What I’m not sure about is whether they can ADD VAT for EU buyers (so €15.4 for
a French buyer) or if it should work as BL works now: that the VAT is considered
included (so €12.7 for a French buyer, of which the seller has to remitt €2.12
of VAT, so earns only €10.58).
That VAT-doesn’t-apply-domestically-but-does-in-EU is indeed weird… but legal.
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Hungary, Budapest
Portugal
Canada, Ontario
France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Austria, Wien