Discussion Forum: Thread 320913

 Author: brox999 View Messages Posted By brox999
 Posted: May 9, 2022 00:45
 Subject: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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 Topic: Catalog
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brox999 (3277)

Location:  New Zealand, Bay of Plenty
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Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)
 Author: here4bricks614 View Messages Posted By here4bricks614
 Posted: May 9, 2022 01:04
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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here4bricks614 (87)

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In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)

Probably because of this: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=4073#T=I

I was just thinking about that part before I found this post...
 Author: Shiny_Stuff View Messages Posted By Shiny_Stuff
 Posted: May 9, 2022 02:56
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a DUMB DUMB DUMB
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 Topic: Catalog
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Shiny_Stuff (457)

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In Catalog, here4bricks614 writes:
  In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)

Probably because of this: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=4073#T=I

I was just thinking about that part before I found this post...


That is a totally STOOPID move.

The one on the sprue should be numbered 4073c00 or 4073c01 or 4073sprue and leave
the regular entry alone.

This is but another example of silly, unnecessary part number changes that cause
chaos for everybody for no good reason. It also breaks all connections with
all other websites that rely on BL part numbers. It screws up all BL seller
storage of physical inventory and all past records. It makes set inventories
worthless now.

This is NOT an improvement or enhancement or beneficial to anyone for any reason.

BrickLink is a commerce website and the primary purpose is to enable easy buying
and selling. BrickLink does NOT exist to have a "Perfect" catalong -- whatever
the heck that might mean. When part numbers get changed willy-nilly it causes
untold problems.

Part number 4073 has existed for over 20 years. Nothing good comes from changing
it now.

Please change it back.

** I refrained from using the F word in this message numerous times !!!!

____
 Author: uvt203 View Messages Posted By uvt203
 Posted: May 9, 2022 03:22
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a DUMB DUMB DUMB
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uvt203 (10491)

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In Catalog, Shiny_Stuff writes:
  In Catalog, here4bricks614 writes:
  In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)

Probably because of this: https://www.bricklink.com/v2/catalog/catalogitem.page?P=4073#T=I

I was just thinking about that part before I found this post...


That is a totally STOOPID move.

The one on the sprue should be numbered 4073c00 or 4073c01 or 4073sprue and leave
the regular entry alone.

This is but another example of silly, unnecessary part number changes that cause
chaos for everybody for no good reason. It also breaks all connections with
all other websites that rely on BL part numbers. It screws up all BL seller
storage of physical inventory and all past records. It makes set inventories
worthless now.

This is NOT an improvement or enhancement or beneficial to anyone for any reason.

BrickLink is a commerce website and the primary purpose is to enable easy buying
and selling. BrickLink does NOT exist to have a "Perfect" catalong -- whatever
the heck that might mean. When part numbers get changed willy-nilly it causes
untold problems.

Part number 4073 has existed for over 20 years. Nothing good comes from changing
it now.

Please change it back.

** I refrained from using the F word in this message numerous times !!!!

____

+1
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 9, 2022 03:28
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a DUMB DUMB DUMB
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yorbrick (964)

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   It screws up all BL seller storage of physical inventory and all past records.

No it doesn't. It may cause a tiny problem for some sellers but certainly
not all. If you choose to store only by part number, can't you just add an
a to the end of the storage label? There is maybe slightly more work for people
that have both sprued and single parts, as they need to change two numbers.

  It makes set inventories worthless now.

Why? They have all been updated correctly.

I'm not a fan of unnecessary changes but this hardly seems like the end of
the world.
 Author: Macaronis View Messages Posted By Macaronis
 Posted: May 9, 2022 13:52
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a DUMB DUMB DUMB
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Macaronis (721)

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** I refrained from using the F word in this message numerous times !!!!

____

Considering my Age and Time here I can totally understand this. My comparison
over the years is if I would have had to put money in a swear jar because of
the amount of times I had cursed in cases like this over BL things, I would have
about 2 dollars less than Elon Musk.

W
 Author: randyf View Messages Posted By randyf
 Posted: May 9, 2022 06:27
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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randyf (423)

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In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)


The reason it was updated was because all sprued parts were updated.

All sprued parts were rid of their assembly constants for a few reasons: (1)
to actually make the part connections between LEGO data and BrickLink data more
in sync; (2) to make them easier to find when searching from other sources; (3)
they are not true assemblies (they are actually one molded part and not an assembly
of parts which are *built* from other base parts); and (4) to sync up with how
multipacks and plastic sheets are handled and/or will be handled in the catalog
(which is by just the design number and no assembly constants).

For example,
 
Part No: 70501  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Coins on Sprue (10, 20, 30, 40) Type 1
* 
70501 (Inv) Minifigure, Utensil Coins on Sprue (10, 20, 30, 40) Type 1
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil
 
Part No: 44658  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
* 
44658 (Inv) Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon
 
Part No: 19807  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Throwing Star (Shuriken) with Textured Grips, 2 on Sprue
* 
19807 (Inv) Minifigure, Weapon Throwing Star (Shuriken) with Textured Grips, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon
etc.

All of these had assembly constants, but now they don't. However, all of
the subparts of these sprued parts have for a very long time gone by subpart
numbers ending in 'a', and 4073 was a lone holdout for a very long time
because it was the most forward facing part. Now it has finally been standardized
with all of the other sprued parts.

Also, if you look at a larger sprue or a multipack, you will see the subparts
of those entries use letter suffixes:
 
Part No: 30019  Name: Belville Accessories - Complete Sprue - Hospital
* 
30019 (Inv) Belville Accessories - Complete Sprue - Hospital
Parts: Belville

or
 
Part No: 73766  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Pack Sickles, Swords and Shuriken, 10 in Bag (Multipack)
* 
73766 (Inv) Minifigure, Weapon Pack Sickles, Swords and Shuriken, 10 in Bag (Multipack)
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon

I know that the change to this one part is the most obvious, but there is a lot
to be gained by standardizing all sprued parts with each other and with how other
things are handled in the catalog. It will take a little time to get used to,
but it will not take long before it is part of everyone's knowledge.

I hope that this message goes a ways towards explaining the rationale. Please
let me know if you have any other questions.

Cheers,
Randy
 Author: jbroman View Messages Posted By jbroman
 Posted: May 9, 2022 07:21
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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jbroman (849)

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Looking at the change log, it’s been changed back by Admin_Russell.

Change is good, but maybe cat admins should also look at how many sets are affected.
4073 is everywhere, most people looking for it would be surprised that it was
available on a sprue for 13 years in 173 sets.

With that, maybe all parts on sprues should have the sprue suffix. While still
leaving the assembly constraint off.

For ease of finding the sprue part variant, you could also add all sprue parts
as a related item to the parts that are on the sprue.

By the way, with these recent changes, there is no default colour shown for 4073
when going to the item page.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 9, 2022 07:38
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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SylvainLS (38)

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In Catalog, jbroman writes:
  Looking at the change log, it’s been changed back by Admin_Russell.

Great, just after I changed my database….


  Change is good, but maybe cat admins should also look at how many sets are affected.
4073 is everywhere, most people looking for it would be surprised that it was
available on a sprue for 13 years in 173 sets.

If, as Randyf said, one of the goals was to make it easier for interoperability,
naming the standalone plate 6141 would have been better (it’s its name in LDD
& LDraw).


  With that, maybe all parts on sprues should have the sprue suffix. While still
leaving the assembly constraint off.

For ease of finding the sprue part variant, you could also add all sprue parts
as a related item to the parts that are on the sprue.

It somehow already exists: “Item Appears In … NN Parts” but it sure is less visible
than the other way round (“Item Consists Of”).


  By the way, with these recent changes, there is no default colour shown for 4073
when going to the item page.

Seems okay now.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 9, 2022 08:31
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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yorbrick (964)

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  For ease of finding the sprue part variant, you could also add all sprue parts
as a related item to the parts that are on the sprue.

It somehow already exists: “Item Appears In … NN Parts” but it sure is less visible
than the other way round (“Item Consists Of”).

The item appears in ... NN parts is not so useful for things like the 1x1 round
plate, since so many assemblies are classed as parts. The humble 1x1 round appears
in 59 parts - nearly all of them animals or special assemblies that are not
important enough to be minifigures like other similar objects but have to have
a label so get called parts.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 9, 2022 08:45
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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SylvainLS (38)

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In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
  
  
  For ease of finding the sprue part variant, you could also add all sprue parts
as a related item to the parts that are on the sprue.

It somehow already exists: “Item Appears In … NN Parts” but it sure is less visible
than the other way round (“Item Consists Of”).

The item appears in ... NN parts is not so useful for things like the 1x1 round
plate, since so many assemblies are classed as parts. The humble 1x1 round appears
in 59 parts - nearly all of them animals or special assemblies that are not
important enough to be minifigures like other similar objects but have to have
a label so get called parts.

Yes, first you have to look in the column that has many links, then you need
to find it in the list (though, here, it’s the first one).
That’s why I said “somehow”

The question is: Is there a difference in the database between special assemblies
and sprues?  And, except for “sprue” in the name or description, I fear there’s
not.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 9, 2022 09:29
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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yorbrick (964)

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  The question is: Is there a difference in the database between special assemblies
and sprues?  And, except for “sprue” in the name or description, I fear there’s
not.

You would hope that there could be different types. I think there are different
types of "parts", not all of them actually parts in the bricklink sense. In particular,
special assemblies, (built) animals, minifigures, etc. To me, these are all equivalent
types of object. They are groups of parts that once assembled form the special
object but are also reversible. To me, all these types of assemblies are more
than just parts. They should all be recognized with the same status as minifigures
as a well-defined special object.

Is there really a fundamental difference between this part:
 
Part No: snail01  Name: Snail, The Lego Movie - Brick Built
* 
snail01 (Inv) Snail, The Lego Movie - Brick Built
Parts: Animal, Land

and this minifigure?
 
Minifig No: uni05  Name: Fee Bee
* 
uni05 (Inv) Fee Bee
Minifigures: Unikitty!


There is definitely (at least, should be) a difference between a special assembly
and a sprue. Special assemblies are all composed by the user from parts. Whereas
sprues (and bags of parts, sticker sheets, etc) are parts that the user destroys
to create other parts (whether the created parts are recognized as parts or not,
without being attached to other parts).
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 9, 2022 10:13
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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SylvainLS (38)

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In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
  
  The question is: Is there a difference in the database between special assemblies
and sprues?  And, except for “sprue” in the name or description, I fear there’s
not.

You would hope that there could be different types. I think there are different
types of "parts", not all of them actually parts in the bricklink sense. In particular,
special assemblies, (built) animals, minifigures, etc. To me, these are all equivalent
types of object. They are groups of parts that once assembled form the special
object but are also reversible. To me, all these types of assemblies are more
than just parts. They should all be recognized with the same status as minifigures
as a well-defined special object.

Is there really a fundamental difference between this part:
 
Part No: snail01  Name: Snail, The Lego Movie - Brick Built
* 
snail01 (Inv) Snail, The Lego Movie - Brick Built
Parts: Animal, Land

and this minifigure?
 
Minifig No: uni05  Name: Fee Bee
* 
uni05 (Inv) Fee Bee
Minifigures: Unikitty!


There is definitely (at least, should be) a difference between a special assembly
and a sprue. Special assemblies are all composed by the user from parts. Whereas
sprues (and bags of parts, sticker sheets, etc) are parts that the user destroys
to create other parts (whether the created parts are recognized as parts or not,
without being attached to other parts).

There’s two levels: interpretation (what the things are (or thought to be)) and
representation (how things are stored in the database).

You’re talking about interpretation, I was talking about the database.

Everything in interpretation isn’t always represented.  It’s often not the case,
either because of poor implementation or simply because it’s not useful… or
because things changed and the border between useful and not needed moved.

So, AFAIK, for the catalogue, the items are: sets, parts, minifigures, books,
gears, catalogues, instructions, boxes, and unsorted lots.
There’s no subtype for parts: a part is a part.

And parts can contain parts.  That the part is then a single part, a composite
(hinge plate, horse, motor…), an assembly (stickered assembly, brick-built animal
or character) or a sprue is, I believe, not in the database.  I don’t think that
there’s a field or table that says “standalone,” “composite,” “assembly,” or
“sprue.”  The only way to differentiate the last three is by interpretation (that
is, looking at the description if the word Sprue is there (but beware of 4079b
)).  For the first one, I don’t think there’s a field either, it’s just that
its list of subparts is empty.  Even “can’t be inventoried” is just another table
that lists parts for which the UI will prevent you from adding subparts.

So, what I was saying, what I meant, is that for the parts page to add a link
“Part of Sprue XX,” the devs need to either:
a. Add a subtype field (or tables) to determine if a part is a standalone, composite,
sprue, or special assembly… which I don’t think they’ll do soon or they would
have done it for the special assemblies.
b. Parse the description to look for clues, which is not a good thing to do,
partly because descriptions are free (see comment about 4079b), and also because
information shouldn’t be stored in composite fields that you then need to decompose/parse.

What I didn’t say is that it shouldn’t be done (preferrably a super-(a), which
would allow to sort the “special assemblies are characters like minifigures but
not minifigures” problem).
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 9, 2022 08:26
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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yorbrick (964)

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In Catalog, jbroman writes:
  Looking at the change log, it’s been changed back by Admin_Russell.

It has been changed back, but changed back to what it was seven plus years ago,
not yesterday. The pair started out as 4073sprue.

Then

Aug 22, 2015
Changed Item No from {4073sprue} to {4073c01}

May 8, 2022
Changed Item No from {4073c01} to {4073}
Changed Item No from {4073} to {4073c01}
Changed Item No from {4073c01} to {4073}

May 9, 2022
Changed Item No from {4073} to {4073sprue}

So it is now (currently?) back to what it was called years ago.

Anyone using the number only for cataloguing/storage will still need to deal
with a change if they have the sprue parts.
 Author: ZwarteMagica View Messages Posted By ZwarteMagica
 Posted: May 9, 2022 10:18
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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ZwarteMagica (8524)

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In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)

Thank you Bricklink! Now I have sold pieces I do not own, or ever have had.

Again Thank you!
 
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 9, 2022 10:26
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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SylvainLS (38)

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In Catalog, ZwarteMagica writes:
  […]
Thank you Bricklink! Now I have sold pieces I do not own, or ever have had.

Again Thank you!

I thought everything was changed automatically, including store inventories. 
Or did you add the “wrong” parts after the change? (Using a not-yet up-to-date
tool?)
 Author: Leftoverbricks View Messages Posted By Leftoverbricks
 Posted: May 9, 2022 10:59
 Subject: Communication Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a
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Leftoverbricks (1979)

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In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)

So we had a severe situation today: Randyf changed 4073 to 4073a. After a couple
of hours Admin Russell changed it back to 4073.

Facts:
- Randyf is an extremely experienced and valuable Catalog Associate
- apparently this was quickly met by critique on the forum and admin Russell
reverted it

So I ask myself: who is in charge here? A catalog associate or a manager? And
if Russell is in charge why didn't he reply to the topic?

Just asking.
 Author: Leftoverbricks View Messages Posted By Leftoverbricks
 Posted: May 9, 2022 11:20
 Subject: Re: Communication Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a
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Leftoverbricks (1979)

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In Catalog, Leftoverbricks writes:
  In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)

So we had a severe situation today: Randyf changed 4073 to 4073a. After a couple
of hours Admin Russell changed it back to 4073.

Facts:
- Randyf is an extremely experienced and valuable Catalog Associate
- apparently this was quickly met by critique on the forum and admin Russell
reverted it

So I ask myself: who is in charge here? A catalog associate or a manager? And
if Russell is in charge why didn't he reply to the topic?

Just asking.

To clarify: I'm not criticizing Russell for reverting the change made by
Randyf (I welcome that), I criticize the complete lack of communication from
BL admins to sellers.
 Author: StarBrick View Messages Posted By StarBrick
 Posted: May 11, 2022 05:51
 Subject: Re: Communication Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a
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StarBrick (6317)

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Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: StarBrick's BrickShop
Mmmm, looks like "de toeslagenaffaire": who decides and has the authority to
do so given by who?
Or the book by Jesse Frederiks on that disaster "Zo hadden we het niet bedoeld"
(English: "That's not what we intended to happen...").

This phenomenon now even entered the world of our beloved plastic parts .
So much for 'a world of our own...'.
 Author: randyf View Messages Posted By randyf
 Posted: May 9, 2022 11:23
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
 Viewed: 79 times
 Topic: Catalog
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randyf (423)

Location:  USA, Ohio
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 16, 2009 Member Does Not Allow Contact Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: The Bricking Spectre
BrickLink Catalog Associate (?)
In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)


I would like to make a formal apology to you and everyone else for not thinking
all of the consequences through for these changes. Although I am an experienced
contributor and admin, I am human and not perfect. I make mistakes. Most of the
parts on sprue will not affect hardly anything or cause a stir, but this part
is different and special because it is so ubiquitous. As others have seen, this
one part has had the changes reverted, and I take full responsibility for the
blame. I am currently taking my floggings and licking my wounds, and I hope there
are no hard feelings had by all.

Thanks,
Randy
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 9, 2022 11:36
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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Store Closed Store: BuyerOnly
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Catalog, randyf writes:
  […]
I would like to make a formal apology to you and everyone else for not thinking
all of the consequences through for these changes. Although I am an experienced
contributor and admin, I am human and not perfect. I make mistakes. Most of the
parts on sprue will not affect hardly anything or cause a stir, but this part
is different and special because it is so ubiquitous. As others have seen, this
one part has had the changes reverted, and I take full responsibility for the
blame. I am currently taking my floggings and licking my wounds, and I hope there
are no hard feelings had by all.

Thanks,
Randy

No problem Randy.  I think the communication part (or rather lack thereof; the
surprise) made it a bigger issue than it really is.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 9, 2022 12:27
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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yorbrick (964)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Yorbricks
  I would like to make a formal apology to you and everyone else for not thinking
all of the consequences through for these changes.

As punishment you must walk over a pile of 4073s with bare feet. The "crime"
is not serious enough to warrant 3003s!
 Author: jennnifer View Messages Posted By jennnifer
 Posted: May 9, 2022 12:58
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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jennnifer (3120)

Location:  USA, Illinois
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 8, 2009 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Old Grey Bricks
In Catalog, randyf writes:
  In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)


I would like to make a formal apology to you and everyone else for not thinking
all of the consequences through for these changes. Although I am an experienced
contributor and admin, I am human and not perfect. I make mistakes. Most of the
parts on sprue will not affect hardly anything or cause a stir, but this part
is different and special because it is so ubiquitous. As others have seen, this
one part has had the changes reverted, and I take full responsibility for the
blame. I am currently taking my floggings and licking my wounds, and I hope there
are no hard feelings had by all.

Thanks,
Randy

No hard feelings here! I understand your thought process of wanting to have all
the sprue parts consistent for the catalog. Thanks for being so forthcoming about
all the details.

Our imperfect catalog needs lots of imperfect people to keep it going.
Jen
 Author: Leftoverbricks View Messages Posted By Leftoverbricks
 Posted: May 9, 2022 23:41
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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Leftoverbricks (1979)

Location:  Netherlands, Overijssel
Member Since Contact Type Status
Mar 11, 2012 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Leftoverbricks
In Catalog, randyf writes:
  In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)


I would like to make a formal apology to you and everyone else for not thinking
all of the consequences through for these changes. Although I am an experienced
contributor and admin, I am human and not perfect. I make mistakes. Most of the
parts on sprue will not affect hardly anything or cause a stir, but this part
is different and special because it is so ubiquitous. As others have seen, this
one part has had the changes reverted, and I take full responsibility for the
blame. I am currently taking my floggings and licking my wounds, and I hope there
are no hard feelings had by all.

Thanks,
Randy

Well, all settled then.
 Author: brick.warehouse View Messages Posted By brick.warehouse
 Posted: May 9, 2022 22:36
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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brick.warehouse (4495)

Location:  Australia, Western Australia
Member Since Contact Type Status
Jun 4, 2017 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Bricks Warehouse
Third party applications will have difficulty with changes of this nature as
the part number is the only identifier that is available over the API.

A competing site provides a separate stable identifier (the BOID) which allows
the part number to change without breaking the relationship between the parts
on Bricklink and the parts in external databases.

If these changes are going to occur frequently, it would be helpful if Bricklink
could introduce something similar.
 Author: ZwarteMagica View Messages Posted By ZwarteMagica
 Posted: May 10, 2022 07:21
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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ZwarteMagica (8524)

Location:  Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 14, 2010 Contact Member Seller
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Store: HappyB
That would be great to implement and makes bricklink more scalable.

For now I really looking forward for the next blunt change. Messing with my inventory.

In Catalog, brick.warehouse writes:
  Third party applications will have difficulty with changes of this nature as
the part number is the only identifier that is available over the API.

A competing site provides a separate stable identifier (the BOID) which allows
the part number to change without breaking the relationship between the parts
on Bricklink and the parts in external databases.

If these changes are going to occur frequently, it would be helpful if Bricklink
could introduce something similar.
 
 Author: Admin_Russell View Messages Posted By Admin_Russell
 Posted: May 10, 2022 19:45
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
 Viewed: 92 times
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Admin_Russell

Location:  USA, California
Member Since Contact Type Status
May 9, 2017 Contact Member Admin
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
BrickLink Administrator
In Catalog, brox999 writes:
  Why on earth has this catalog number changed, usually the a suffix is because
a new variant has emerged but that isn't the case here, does not make sense.

Andrew (Broxy's Bricks)

I made adjustments yesterday to the following item numbers:
 
Part No: 4073sprue  Name: Plate, Round 1 x 1, 2 on Sprue
* 
4073sprue (Inv) Plate, Round 1 x 1, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Plate, Round
 
Part No: 4073  Name: Plate, Round 1 x 1
* 
4073 Plate, Round 1 x 1
Parts: Plate, Round

and today I made a few more:
 
Part No: 3742sprue  Name: Plant Flower Small, 4 on Sprue
* 
3742sprue (Inv) Plant Flower Small, 4 on Sprue
Parts: Plant
 
Part No: 3742  Name: Plant Flower Small
* 
3742 Plant Flower Small
Parts: Plant
 
Part No: 2599sprue  Name: Minifigure Footgear Flippers, 2 on Sprue
* 
2599sprue (Inv) Minifigure Footgear Flippers, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Body Wear

One of the effects of using a "smart number" system is that Item Numbers take
on a greater purpose than that of a simple unique identifier. In cases where
an Item Number is found to be incorrect, it is catalog policy to make the correction
in order to better align with the sources of information we have about that part.

The changes that were made recently to the item numbers of complete sprues were
aligned with this policy. We have now dropped the practice of using the assembly
constant suffix "c01" for complete sprues, which was troublesome due to complete
sprues technically not being "assemblies":

https://www.bricklink.com/help.asp?helpID=168

The problem that arose, though, was that some items on the sprue had been numbered
with the item number of the complete sprue. When the Item Number you wish to
use is already in use, this presents a situation where an Item Number will not
simply be retired from use, but it will take on a new identity. This was a sticking
point with some of our sellers who
had resulting issues with listings and items sold.

To solve this, I have completed a couple changes. First, for all complete sprues
that cannot immediately be changed to their correct number, I have added the
suffix "sprue" to the Item Number.

Second, I have reverted the Item Numbers of the separate parts back to what they
have been known as for years.

For two of the cases (the round plate and the flippers) the situation is more
complex, because the parts were distributed both with and without sprues. Strictly
speaking, the newer versions without sprue have a new number and should not be
used in the inventory for the older sprue.

However, this would be highly impractical to implement because it would disassociate
parts that are virtually the same. So the jury is still out on how this will
end up being handled. For the time being we will stick to how things are now.

Please mention any concerns you have with these changes along with ideas as to
what would work the best for BrickLink in the future.

Be sure to do a hard refresh to get the right images to appear in the macro tags
in this post.
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 11, 2022 03:49
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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yorbrick (964)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
  I made adjustments yesterday to the following item numbers:
 
Part No: 4073sprue  Name: Plate, Round 1 x 1, 2 on Sprue
* 
4073sprue (Inv) Plate, Round 1 x 1, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Plate, Round
 
Part No: 4073  Name: Plate, Round 1 x 1
* 
4073 Plate, Round 1 x 1
Parts: Plate, Round

and today I made a few more:
 
Part No: 3742sprue  Name: Plant Flower Small, 4 on Sprue
* 
3742sprue (Inv) Plant Flower Small, 4 on Sprue
Parts: Plant
 
Part No: 3742  Name: Plant Flower Small
* 
3742 Plant Flower Small
Parts: Plant
 
Part No: 2599sprue  Name: Minifigure Footgear Flippers, 2 on Sprue
* 
2599sprue (Inv) Minifigure Footgear Flippers, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Body Wear

What about things like these?

 
Part No: 44658  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
* 
44658 (Inv) Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon
 
Part No: 44658a  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knife
* 
44658a Minifigure, Weapon Knife
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon

 
Part No: 36752  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
* 
36752 (Inv) Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil
 
Part No: 36752a  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand
* 
36752a Minifigure, Utensil Wand
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: May 11, 2022 04:21
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
 Viewed: 38 times
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Stellar (2526)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 24, 2015 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Stellar Bricks
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
  
  I made adjustments yesterday to the following item numbers:
 
Part No: 4073sprue  Name: Plate, Round 1 x 1, 2 on Sprue
* 
4073sprue (Inv) Plate, Round 1 x 1, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Plate, Round
 
Part No: 4073  Name: Plate, Round 1 x 1
* 
4073 Plate, Round 1 x 1
Parts: Plate, Round

and today I made a few more:
 
Part No: 3742sprue  Name: Plant Flower Small, 4 on Sprue
* 
3742sprue (Inv) Plant Flower Small, 4 on Sprue
Parts: Plant
 
Part No: 3742  Name: Plant Flower Small
* 
3742 Plant Flower Small
Parts: Plant
 
Part No: 2599sprue  Name: Minifigure Footgear Flippers, 2 on Sprue
* 
2599sprue (Inv) Minifigure Footgear Flippers, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Body Wear

What about things like these?

 
Part No: 44658  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
* 
44658 (Inv) Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon
 
Part No: 44658a  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knife
* 
44658a Minifigure, Weapon Knife
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon

 
Part No: 36752  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
* 
36752 (Inv) Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil
 
Part No: 36752a  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand
* 
36752a Minifigure, Utensil Wand
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil

Full list of multiple items on sprue:

https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?v=1&pg=1&q=sprue&catLike=W&sortBy=N&sortAsc=A&catType=P

If IDs with a suffix had the ID without the suffix as an alternate ID they would
appear in searches alongside without the need of the * that most users don't
know about.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 11, 2022 04:39
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
 Viewed: 39 times
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Seller
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Store Closed Store: BuyerOnly
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Catalog, Stellar writes:
  […]
Full list of multiple items on sprue:

https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?v=1&pg=1&q=sprue&catLike=W&sortBy=N&sortAsc=A&catType=P

Plus two parts that are not: 4079b and 4079bpb01


  If IDs with a suffix had the ID without the suffix as an alternate ID they would
appear in searches alongside without the need of the * that most users don't
know about.

But if the plain ID is already used for the lone part, can it also be used as
an alternate ID for the sprue?
For instance, 3742 is the flower, can 3742 be added as alternate ID for 3742sprue?
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: May 11, 2022 04:46
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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Stellar (2526)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Member Since Contact Type Status
Sep 24, 2015 Contact Member Seller
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Store: Stellar Bricks
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
  In Catalog, Stellar writes:
  […]
Full list of multiple items on sprue:

https://www.bricklink.com/catalogList.asp?v=1&pg=1&q=sprue&catLike=W&sortBy=N&sortAsc=A&catType=P

Plus two parts that are not: 4079b and 4079bpb01

Hey, I didn't say the list only contained parts on sprue, just said that
all parts on sprue where there

  

  If IDs with a suffix had the ID without the suffix as an alternate ID they would
appear in searches alongside without the need of the * that most users don't
know about.

But if the plain ID is already used for the lone part, can it also be used as
an alternate ID for the sprue?
For instance, 3742 is the flower, can 3742 be added as alternate ID for 3742sprue?

As far as I know Alternate ID is just a text field, like a second title.
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 11, 2022 05:01
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
 Viewed: 33 times
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 25, 2014 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store Closed Store: BuyerOnly
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Catalog, Stellar writes:
  […]
  But if the plain ID is already used for the lone part, can it also be used as
an alternate ID for the sprue?
For instance, 3742 is the flower, can 3742 be added as alternate ID for 3742sprue?

As far as I know Alternate ID is just a text field, like a second title.

Oh yeah, I forgot that.  So no problem and very handy solution
 Author: SylvainLS View Messages Posted By SylvainLS
 Posted: May 11, 2022 04:26
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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SylvainLS (38)

Location:  France, Nouvelle-Aquitaine
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Store Closed Store: BuyerOnly
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
  […]
What about things like these?

 
Part No: 44658  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
* 
44658 (Inv) Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon
 
Part No: 44658a  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knife
* 
44658a Minifigure, Weapon Knife
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon

 
Part No: 36752  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
* 
36752 (Inv) Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil
 
Part No: 36752a  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand
* 
36752a Minifigure, Utensil Wand
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil

I think those have always been this way.
And the sprues have their LEGO number and we don’t know the lone parts number
(or even if they have one¹: TLG doesn’t really need one as they only produce
and sell the sprues).

Maybe the sprues could have the “sprue” suffix to show they are sprues but I’m
not keen on removing the “a” from the parts.

(¹ 2599a has three other Design IDs.  One of them could be used if the “a” is
“itching” some people.  Maybe use the one that can be read on modern parts.)
 Author: yorbrick View Messages Posted By yorbrick
 Posted: May 11, 2022 04:34
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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yorbrick (964)

Location:  United Kingdom, England
Member Since Contact Type Status
Apr 11, 2011 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Yorbricks
In Catalog, SylvainLS writes:
  In Catalog, yorbrick writes:
  […]
What about things like these?

 
Part No: 44658  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
* 
44658 (Inv) Minifigure, Weapon Knives, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon
 
Part No: 44658a  Name: Minifigure, Weapon Knife
* 
44658a Minifigure, Weapon Knife
Parts: Minifigure, Weapon

 
Part No: 36752  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
* 
36752 (Inv) Minifigure, Utensil Wand, 2 on Sprue
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil
 
Part No: 36752a  Name: Minifigure, Utensil Wand
* 
36752a Minifigure, Utensil Wand
Parts: Minifigure, Utensil

I think those have always been this way.
And the sprues have their LEGO number and we don’t know the lone parts number
(or even if they have one¹: TLG doesn’t really need one as they only produce
and sell the sprues).

Maybe the sprues could have the “sprue” suffix to show they are sprues but I’m
not keen on removing the “a” from the parts.

(¹ 2599a has three other Design IDs.  One of them could be used if the “a” is
“itching” some people.  Maybe use the one that can be read on modern parts.)

I picked two items there, as they are handled in different ways by LEGO. The
knives come on a sprue, but in the inventory in instructions they are shown singly.
Whereas the wands are shown on a sprue, even if just one is needed. At least,
in the instructions I just looked at (79003).
 Author: Stellar View Messages Posted By Stellar
 Posted: May 12, 2022 07:13
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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Stellar (2526)

Location:  Spain, Comunidad Valenciana
Member Since Contact Type Status
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Store: Stellar Bricks
BrickLink Discussions Moderator (?)
  (¹ 2599a has three other Design IDs.  One of them could be used if the “a” is
“itching” some people.  Maybe use the one that can be read on modern parts.)

They are noticeable different parts, 2599a is way more flexible than the newer
ones, maybe they could be split.

This happened recently with this hair:

 
Part No: 17346  Name: Minifigure, Hair Female Long Straight with Bangs - Flexible Rubber
* 
17346 Minifigure, Hair Female Long Straight with Bangs - Flexible Rubber
Parts: Minifigure, Hair

 
Part No: 75867  Name: Minifigure, Hair Female Long Straight with Bangs - Hard Plastic
* 
75867 Minifigure, Hair Female Long Straight with Bangs - Hard Plastic
Parts: Minifigure, Hair
 Author: jedvii View Messages Posted By jedvii
 Posted: May 11, 2022 05:14
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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jedvii (592)

Location:  USA, Indiana
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Store: 7central
In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
  

Please mention any concerns you have with these changes along with ideas as to
what would work the best for BrickLink in the future.


I feel this all could have been avoided by having some kind of announcement before
catalog changes are made. Right now it feels so willy-nilly. Sure 99% of catalog
changes are thing people wouldn't care about, but those other 1% can really
have an impact. Why can't there be an announcement of parts that are going
to be changed? Maybe on Mondays you could post all the parts that are set to
be changed in 1 week.

I feel an increase in transparency would be a great thing.

-jed
 Author: Bricklanta View Messages Posted By Bricklanta
 Posted: May 11, 2022 07:18
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
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Bricklanta (204)

Location:  USA, Georgia
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In Catalog, jedvii writes:
  In Catalog, Admin_Russell writes:
  

Please mention any concerns you have with these changes along with ideas as to
what would work the best for BrickLink in the future.


I feel this all could have been avoided by having some kind of announcement before
catalog changes are made. Right now it feels so willy-nilly. Sure 99% of catalog
changes are thing people wouldn't care about, but those other 1% can really
have an impact. Why can't there be an announcement of parts that are going
to be changed? Maybe on Mondays you could post all the parts that are set to
be changed in 1 week.

I feel an increase in transparency would be a great thing.

-jed

Or maybe just not change part numbers at all! I get that someone had the bright
idea that things might have been better if these parts had been moneyed this
way too begin with, but they weren't. Sometimes, speaking from personal experience,
you suck up your OCD tendencies and you adhere to precedent and backwards compatibility.
Also, this may not fall into the catalog admin's kingdom, but upgrading the
database in the back end to notate whether a part has subpart or is a sprue or
is a "multipart" would solve the problem in a far more elegant way without breaking
hundreds of people's inventories.
 Author: jancg View Messages Posted By jancg
 Posted: May 11, 2022 11:07
 Subject: Re: 1x1 Round plate - 4073 to 4073a (Why????)
 Viewed: 39 times
 Topic: Catalog
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jancg (358)

Location:  Netherlands, Noord-Holland
Member Since Contact Type Status
Nov 6, 2004 Contact Member Seller
Buying Privileges - OKSelling Privileges - OK
Store: Out of production
Another option to allow external tools to update their external catalogs is to
provide a push-delta. BrickLink has a reasonable API. Should be relatively easy
to implement.